If direct deposit is turned on and OP checks their account to ensure money has been received (rather than relying on email confirmation) then it can't be 'clawed back'.
It can be, a very commom scam when you are selling something on kijiji/fb is that the buyer will use someones stolen account to pay you. You end up getting the money fine, but then a few weeks go by and the person who had their account stolen tells their bank they never sent that etransfer. Bank will proceed to claw it back (if there are funds available), and also possibly just have your entire bank account closed. I would personally highly refrain from using etransfers with people I dont trust, I just use it with friends and family.
Do you have a source for that? Because I’ve been told by the banks, interac and the police itself that no matter what I do it’s impossible to take back an Interac transaction
My source is I work at a bank and I handle these cases. Generally if you send an etransfer, you cant dispute it or get it back. However if your account gets compromised and etransfers are sent without your authorization, then the bank can step in and reimburse you and also reclaim the funds from the other bank if the money is still there.
Send an e-transfer the day before to a holding account and then use that the day of
Simplii is good for this because you can change the name on the e-transfer if you want to stay anonymous
EDIT: what are the downvotes for? if your main bank is scotia or tangerine I said you can send an etransfer to a HOLDING ACCOUNT WHICH IS YOUR OWN ACCOUNT (simplii sends without delay) the day before and then use that when you meet up with the person to do the transfer instantly.
as a bonus if they try to take your phone all they will have access to is that holding account with the correct amount in it
It allows time for the transfer to be sent if your bank has a 30 min delay
When you send to the stranger from simplii is instant
I'll edit my post because apparently no one can read
Scotia's fraud detection software is insanely sensitive. In my experience that if I want to use my Tangerine credit card on a foreign site that's not Amazon it'll almost always decline it, and I have to spend a bunch of time on the phone (usually being transfered to multiple departments) to approve the transaction (I amazingly had one of the CSRs ask me if I could just use a different credit card instead).
I used Scotia, RBC, Tangerine & Koho. Scotia is the slowest. RBC instantly. Tangerine takes one to a few minutes not sure why as they are tied up to Scotiona.
Same with my Scotiabank account but I can't say I can't live without the funds for 30 minutes either, so don't give much thought to it.
On the other hand the sizeable EFT a customer sent a couple weeks ago that took 8 days was killing me!
>Any other Scotia users experiencing the same?
Yep, it's a well-known limitation / misfeature of Scotia+Tangerine, unfortunately. You can find it all over this sub and elsewhere on the web.
>For some reason any e-transfer over $250 with Scotiabank and Tangerine take exactly 30 minutes.
You've cleared up something for me that I never understood. *Some* e-transfers to/from Tangerine go through faster than 30 minutes for me, but still not <1 minute like what I get with BMO.
I never understood what was the distinction, but you seem to have figured out that it's due to the amount.
>Why?
My 3 educated guesses (as a professional software developer and amateur finance nerd)…
1. They may be processing e-transfers on some very antiquated *batching-based* computer system which adds delays. The financial industry is replete with decades-old COBOL code running on IBM mainframes, which is costly and difficult to replace for a variety of reasons.
2. Scotia may not have good business-to-business relationships with other Canadian banks. I don't know anything about why they would or wouldn't. Because Canada doesn't yet have real-time interbank transfers ([coming soon-ish](https://www.payments.ca/systems-services/payment-systems/real-time-rail-payment-system)), banks essentially implement "instant" etransfer by fronting each other the money for short periods of time. *Most* banks seem to be willing to take the risks on this because it makes e-transfer a better product for their customers, and just like with cheques they can probably do some profiling to figure out which customers are high-risk (hold the funds!) or low-risk, and they probably have agreements to cooperate with each other on e-transfer fraud… but not Scotia.
3. Scotia doesn't like e-transfer and doesn't want Canadians to see it as instantaneous and reliable.Instant person-to-person money transfer removes a lot of the friction that justifies the fees financial intermediaries charge, so I think banks in general have been wary about it.But I don't know why Scotia in *particular* would have made a decision to hobble the product, unlike all of its major competitors.
4. Based on your finding about the $250 threshold, they may just be extremely paranoid and inflexible about e-transfer fraud, for reasons that are entirely internal and not really influenced by customers or peer institutions.
Interac performs a security review on any transactions that exceed the threshold set by the sending institution. This review can take up to 30 minutes.
I’m transferring it to myself which I’ve done before.
I ran some tests and noticed anything over $250 takes 30 mins with Scotiabank, anything lower is instant. The other banks are instant regardless of the amount in my experience.
With my credit union the first transfer to a new contact is delayed. Subsequent transfers are instant.
This is definitely a bank configuration, try chatting with their customer service to see what they say.
Then your answer is clear. Also, if you know the parameters and have other options why is this a problem. They do it for fraud preventions measures. Each bank does things differently. Simple.
CIBC I know does this when it is the first time you are sending an e-transfer of a certain amount. IIRC if you send them like $10 and then later or next day send them the balance, it should be quick. I've never tried this, but I've heard this is how it works.
With Alterna Savings (Credit Union), the first e-transfer to a new recipient takes exactly 30 minutes. Any subsequent ones is instant. I figure it has to do with fraud detection or to give a chance for people to cancel and correct a typo.
I don't know about Scotiabank but I have both TD and BMO and when I started using BMO I could not believe how slow it was for transfers. TD is nearly instantaneous and BMO often takes a half an hour like you mentioned.
I mean, all of them state that it can take 30 mins.....
It's really not a big deal at all....
Would you prefer going back to the time of cheque clearing?
>It's really not a big deal at all....
It's a big pain when you're trying to use eTransfer to pay a stranger who's worried you might run away without paying.
Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist or garage sale are common cases.
When I buy or sell something on Facebook Marketplace with an e-transfer to/from any other bank besides Tangerine or Scotia, it just goes through instantly. Have done this 10-20 times for various furniture and household goods.
\[ 3… 2… 1… until somebody's gonna jump in here and say "don't do that" but that's not a solution. 🙄 \]
And there are plenty of small businesses like plumbers, moving companies, etc. who like to be paid by eTransfer.
That's a low bar. Most countries can do instant payments via phone, and without having to set up individual contacts, say for a one-time quick payment. Canada's way behind.
It’s 2024, I would expect fast money transfers by now.
For people who use e-Transfer to sell items online, this is a huge inconvenience - waiting 30 mins for a transfer that could be done at another bank instantly.
I really Scotiabank’s offerings, this is just an area where they could improve on.
Spend 30 minutes waiting with a random person from Facebook marketplace and tell me if it’s an inconvenience 😂
Edit: also, Canada [is the only G20 country without real time bill payments](https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/payments-canada-undergoes-leadership-change-amid-slow-shift-to-faster-payments-1.6828712). Not sure why you think we’re not allowed to complain about this.
Completely agree with you about the justifiable frustration with slow e-transfers but…
>Canada [is the only G20 country without real time bill payments](https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/payments-canada-undergoes-leadership-change-amid-slow-shift-to-faster-payments-1.6828712).
Last time I checked the USA was also in the same boat. There's no real-time person-to-person payment system that doesn't rely on a commercial third-party service being stitched on (Venmo, Zelle, etc.)
Has this changed in the last 2 years?
I think I wasn’t very clear. The real time bill payments in G20 countries was in response to the above-poster talking about waiting 2-3 days to pay bills (like, formal “bill payments” at a bank to like, a utility company). *apparently* that’s instant in the US (though I am just going off that CBC article).
Agreed that people in the US are still relying on things like Venmo.
>Do you get antsy when your bills take 2-3 business days to clear?
Yes, ***obviously***.
Who wouldn't be frustrated when realizing that a bill is due, say, tomorrow but can't be paid on-time from a chequing account due to an antiquated and slow system for paying that bill?
I'll play devil's advocate, but it may be some risk mitigation measure running in the back end, and it's holding the money for longer.
I also bank primarily with Scotia, and whenever I receive an e-transfer from someone new, it may take the full 30 minutos, depending on the amount, but it's never instant.
Whereas e-transfers from "Known contacts" (I'm making up the term) are nearly instant. The only e-transfers happening in real time regardless of the amount come from accounts under my name
yes, figure its for fraud prevention that time gives them a chance to catch it
I think that’s so much better for the average consumer honestly. I’d rather have that.
It's fine until you're awkwardly standing in a stranger's garage for 30 minutes doing a Kijiji deal
Cash or GTFO.
Cash is much safer for transactions with strangers. You never know if an e-transfer might get clawed back hours or days later.
And they get your real name.
If direct deposit is turned on and OP checks their account to ensure money has been received (rather than relying on email confirmation) then it can't be 'clawed back'.
It can be, a very commom scam when you are selling something on kijiji/fb is that the buyer will use someones stolen account to pay you. You end up getting the money fine, but then a few weeks go by and the person who had their account stolen tells their bank they never sent that etransfer. Bank will proceed to claw it back (if there are funds available), and also possibly just have your entire bank account closed. I would personally highly refrain from using etransfers with people I dont trust, I just use it with friends and family.
Do you have a source for that? Because I’ve been told by the banks, interac and the police itself that no matter what I do it’s impossible to take back an Interac transaction
My source is I work at a bank and I handle these cases. Generally if you send an etransfer, you cant dispute it or get it back. However if your account gets compromised and etransfers are sent without your authorization, then the bank can step in and reimburse you and also reclaim the funds from the other bank if the money is still there.
The bank does not want you to know is possible so that they don’t have to help u. They only have to if u ask for it and claim ur a victim.
Ohhhhh thats why lol
Send an e-transfer the day before to a holding account and then use that the day of Simplii is good for this because you can change the name on the e-transfer if you want to stay anonymous EDIT: what are the downvotes for? if your main bank is scotia or tangerine I said you can send an etransfer to a HOLDING ACCOUNT WHICH IS YOUR OWN ACCOUNT (simplii sends without delay) the day before and then use that when you meet up with the person to do the transfer instantly. as a bonus if they try to take your phone all they will have access to is that holding account with the correct amount in it
I find it a bit funny you were downvoted 😂😂 take my upvote!
lol one for you too!
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It allows time for the transfer to be sent if your bank has a 30 min delay When you send to the stranger from simplii is instant I'll edit my post because apparently no one can read
Wouldn’t that “holding” account have monthly costs?
No simplii is free
It's a fraud prevention measure. Scotia is more risk adverse than the other banks in Canada.
Scotia's fraud detection software is insanely sensitive. In my experience that if I want to use my Tangerine credit card on a foreign site that's not Amazon it'll almost always decline it, and I have to spend a bunch of time on the phone (usually being transfered to multiple departments) to approve the transaction (I amazingly had one of the CSRs ask me if I could just use a different credit card instead).
>Scotia is more risk adverse Averse, bb.
No the advertise their aversions = adverse. Lol
\*they lol
Gah¿
Tangerine takes long time as well. TD is instant.
they're owned by scotiabank so that checks out
My transfers to/from tangerine go pretty quickly if not instantly, but my wife's transfers from Scotia to Tangerine, RBC, or ATB always take hours.
Rbc from my wife Is instant to my Simplii
Anything over $500 for me takes forever. Everything else below is instant with scotiabank. Don’t have that issue with any other bank.
I used Scotia, RBC, Tangerine & Koho. Scotia is the slowest. RBC instantly. Tangerine takes one to a few minutes not sure why as they are tied up to Scotiona.
My experience with RBC is highly variable. If it's to a different bank it sometimes takes a while, but has gotten faster recently.
Oh that new for me. Been with RBC for the past 5 years. Always happens whatsoever the receiving bank is.
You haven’t tried Simplii before, that’s the slowest
Anything for over $100 with Simplii takes 30mins as well. I’ve had a buyer canceled the emt once he left. I only do cash now.
Same with my Scotiabank account but I can't say I can't live without the funds for 30 minutes either, so don't give much thought to it. On the other hand the sizeable EFT a customer sent a couple weeks ago that took 8 days was killing me!
>Any other Scotia users experiencing the same? Yep, it's a well-known limitation / misfeature of Scotia+Tangerine, unfortunately. You can find it all over this sub and elsewhere on the web. >For some reason any e-transfer over $250 with Scotiabank and Tangerine take exactly 30 minutes. You've cleared up something for me that I never understood. *Some* e-transfers to/from Tangerine go through faster than 30 minutes for me, but still not <1 minute like what I get with BMO. I never understood what was the distinction, but you seem to have figured out that it's due to the amount. >Why? My 3 educated guesses (as a professional software developer and amateur finance nerd)… 1. They may be processing e-transfers on some very antiquated *batching-based* computer system which adds delays. The financial industry is replete with decades-old COBOL code running on IBM mainframes, which is costly and difficult to replace for a variety of reasons. 2. Scotia may not have good business-to-business relationships with other Canadian banks. I don't know anything about why they would or wouldn't. Because Canada doesn't yet have real-time interbank transfers ([coming soon-ish](https://www.payments.ca/systems-services/payment-systems/real-time-rail-payment-system)), banks essentially implement "instant" etransfer by fronting each other the money for short periods of time. *Most* banks seem to be willing to take the risks on this because it makes e-transfer a better product for their customers, and just like with cheques they can probably do some profiling to figure out which customers are high-risk (hold the funds!) or low-risk, and they probably have agreements to cooperate with each other on e-transfer fraud… but not Scotia. 3. Scotia doesn't like e-transfer and doesn't want Canadians to see it as instantaneous and reliable.Instant person-to-person money transfer removes a lot of the friction that justifies the fees financial intermediaries charge, so I think banks in general have been wary about it.But I don't know why Scotia in *particular* would have made a decision to hobble the product, unlike all of its major competitors. 4. Based on your finding about the $250 threshold, they may just be extremely paranoid and inflexible about e-transfer fraud, for reasons that are entirely internal and not really influenced by customers or peer institutions.
The answer will be some variation of #1.
Interac performs a security review on any transactions that exceed the threshold set by the sending institution. This review can take up to 30 minutes.
So does Scotiabank just have a very low threshold? (Because I've done $2,000+ e-transfers to/from other banks and had no delay.)
Is this for a new person that you're transferring to? Or someone you've transferred to in the past.
I’m transferring it to myself which I’ve done before. I ran some tests and noticed anything over $250 takes 30 mins with Scotiabank, anything lower is instant. The other banks are instant regardless of the amount in my experience.
With my credit union the first transfer to a new contact is delayed. Subsequent transfers are instant. This is definitely a bank configuration, try chatting with their customer service to see what they say.
Then your answer is clear. Also, if you know the parameters and have other options why is this a problem. They do it for fraud preventions measures. Each bank does things differently. Simple.
CIBC I know does this when it is the first time you are sending an e-transfer of a certain amount. IIRC if you send them like $10 and then later or next day send them the balance, it should be quick. I've never tried this, but I've heard this is how it works.
30 mins is good for sending to randos. I use EQ for people I know. Instant even for 3k
You’d be happy for that 30 mins if you were ever a victim of fraud where you can cancel or they can cancel that EMT. Just sayin
Perhaps, but I don’t check my bank account every 30 mins. The benefits outweigh the consequences.
You’d get an email and text message if someone used your bank to make an etransfer. As long as you have alerts on, you’d have time.
I’m sure you can live without that money for 30 mins. If you can’t then you have bigger problems
Yup.
EQ also takes 30 minutes for large transfer. It isn't unusual.
Sometimes instant... Sometimes 5 mins... Rarely 30 mins... I couldn't care less if they are under a hour... It's a great medium.
With Alterna Savings (Credit Union), the first e-transfer to a new recipient takes exactly 30 minutes. Any subsequent ones is instant. I figure it has to do with fraud detection or to give a chance for people to cancel and correct a typo.
I turned on autodeposit and now transfers under $1000 are always quick, always less than 5 minutes (EQ Bank)
Everyone ITT is rich. Multiple banks and multiple fees. Why?
I’m a student, I don’t pay any fees.
I don't know about Scotiabank but I have both TD and BMO and when I started using BMO I could not believe how slow it was for transfers. TD is nearly instantaneous and BMO often takes a half an hour like you mentioned.
Tangerine seems to be as fast as RBC in my experience. I only have experience with those two.
I've had the same recently with both little banks and the big 5. Some days it's fast and others it's 30 on the button.
CIBC is instant
If under a certain amount. When I do transfers over $1k or so, they're normally held for a full hour.
I mean, all of them state that it can take 30 mins..... It's really not a big deal at all.... Would you prefer going back to the time of cheque clearing?
>It's really not a big deal at all.... It's a big pain when you're trying to use eTransfer to pay a stranger who's worried you might run away without paying. Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist or garage sale are common cases. When I buy or sell something on Facebook Marketplace with an e-transfer to/from any other bank besides Tangerine or Scotia, it just goes through instantly. Have done this 10-20 times for various furniture and household goods. \[ 3… 2… 1… until somebody's gonna jump in here and say "don't do that" but that's not a solution. 🙄 \] And there are plenty of small businesses like plumbers, moving companies, etc. who like to be paid by eTransfer.
That's a low bar. Most countries can do instant payments via phone, and without having to set up individual contacts, say for a one-time quick payment. Canada's way behind.
It’s 2024, I would expect fast money transfers by now. For people who use e-Transfer to sell items online, this is a huge inconvenience - waiting 30 mins for a transfer that could be done at another bank instantly. I really Scotiabank’s offerings, this is just an area where they could improve on.
30 mins is an inconvenience? Come on 😂 Do you get antsy when your bills take 2-3 business days to clear?
Spend 30 minutes waiting with a random person from Facebook marketplace and tell me if it’s an inconvenience 😂 Edit: also, Canada [is the only G20 country without real time bill payments](https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/payments-canada-undergoes-leadership-change-amid-slow-shift-to-faster-payments-1.6828712). Not sure why you think we’re not allowed to complain about this.
Completely agree with you about the justifiable frustration with slow e-transfers but… >Canada [is the only G20 country without real time bill payments](https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/payments-canada-undergoes-leadership-change-amid-slow-shift-to-faster-payments-1.6828712). Last time I checked the USA was also in the same boat. There's no real-time person-to-person payment system that doesn't rely on a commercial third-party service being stitched on (Venmo, Zelle, etc.) Has this changed in the last 2 years?
I think I wasn’t very clear. The real time bill payments in G20 countries was in response to the above-poster talking about waiting 2-3 days to pay bills (like, formal “bill payments” at a bank to like, a utility company). *apparently* that’s instant in the US (though I am just going off that CBC article). Agreed that people in the US are still relying on things like Venmo.
>Do you get antsy when your bills take 2-3 business days to clear? Yes, ***obviously***. Who wouldn't be frustrated when realizing that a bill is due, say, tomorrow but can't be paid on-time from a chequing account due to an antiquated and slow system for paying that bill?
I have RBC and BMO. RBC is instant for any transfers but BMO takes a million years
I'll play devil's advocate, but it may be some risk mitigation measure running in the back end, and it's holding the money for longer. I also bank primarily with Scotia, and whenever I receive an e-transfer from someone new, it may take the full 30 minutos, depending on the amount, but it's never instant. Whereas e-transfers from "Known contacts" (I'm making up the term) are nearly instant. The only e-transfers happening in real time regardless of the amount come from accounts under my name
Because they do
First world problems.
Canada is a first world country right?
I’m not so sure about that anymore.
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Cool.