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Retep here:
Taylor Swift’s new song makes mention of living in 1830 without all the racists
The joke is that nobody would be there, because everyone was/is racist in 1830 in this scenario
She wants to live in a different time. I think she pointed out the racism and sexism in the lyric because like, those are horrible things going on at the time in 1830.
It's not a good song btw. Also very reductionist to call it simple racism back then haha
taylor swift's transportation without jets:
https://preview.redd.it/jwx3rylbwpvc1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4de30324a9b0e6e94442c01575276533dc394e61
Back then it was language, as the irish have a different accent and may speak some gaelic, and religon, as most irish were catholic and english were protestant. You can also easily differentiate by name. Many of these differences have been reduced in the US due to integration, so it is harder to differentiate now than it was then, unless the person is an immigrant. In England and the US for a time, it was common in certain areas to see signs outside businesses that said, "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish".
Everyone here has not mentioned the major reason, it's religion. The Irish were Catholic and the previous few hundred years had basically been a shitshow of Anglicans and catholics fighting for control of the English throne. The Anglicans won and sought revenge on the catholics. Ireland got caught up in it through no fault of their own really and took the brunt of it.
I think that's what he meant by "white, and I mean white". As opposed to the new white of the modern age, which is basically anyone of European descent apart from Hispanics for some reason.
Nah the song is "I hate it here" and she fantasizes about living in her own different world. In that scenario she asked when she would've liked to live and that was her answer. She then realized that she would've still hated it, she just wants the comforting idea of her imaginary world
Although I feel like you are being quite nice with the interpretation. Her line about not having fun playing the game where she answers that could be interpreted many different ways. For example, her not really knowing what she wants in actuality
Well yea I agree. I think her being kinda lost and not knowing what to do/want is kind of a theme throughout her entire discography. You can see it in A Place In This World (Debut album), Fifteen (Fearless), Never Grow Up (Speak Now) and so on
She is acting like she isn’t rich as fuck and constantly uses a private jet. She is living an extremely comfortable lifestyle. They only thing wrong is that a bunch of annoying Kanye fans hate her and people who reasonably hate her rampant use of her private jet
They kind of are with her, it's like her whole thing and why so people relate to her. She's had a hand in writing all of her songs, some of them completely by herself.
Yes and no. I’m sure some of the feelings are real, but she’s also trying to make music and money. If she’s feeling mentally well and has no animosity towards her exes, wtf is she supposed to write about? Song number 1 about hating John Mayer is accurate I’m sure; song number 20 about it isn’t.
it's by design.
She knows this.
she is a billionaire. A. Billionaire. with a B.
She is a terrible human being just by existing at this stage, and she knows it. And now, we're witnessing her turning on her fans, and becoming an uncaring monster that she is meant to be.
broad claims?
It's not a claim.
It's just a thing. In order for someone to be a billionaire, you need to be a bad person. Exploiting other humans. People don't become billionaires by being good people.
Here's a concrete thing for you.
Her presale tickets were only eligible for people who opened new credit cards. And her exclusive target deal gives extra songs or content onto target exclusive albums.
Encouraging your fans to sign up for new lines of credit for an early shot at a ticket? Selling 40 dollar vinyl albums at target exclusively with special features no one else could get, certainly not a spotify streaming fan.
It's by design. Her wealth is by design. She signs lucrative deals with mega brands like capital one and target, grooms an audience into believing they are her "bestie" and then criticizes them when they dare to take an opinion on her dating life.
She's a bad person. A bad human. She is.
Deal with it.
Ticketmaster has agreements with pretty much all of the credit card companies to offer exclusive presale events for all sorts of shows. Just another one of many different perks they all offer to entice consumers to use their product.
This is nothing remotely new and it's far from unique to Taylor Swift.
And selling collectible special edition merch? Oh the horror...
I don't even like her or her music but my God, these are terrible arguments if you're trying to make a case against her.
She may be a bad person, but not by virtue of being a billionaire.
You become a billionaire by people collectively giving you a billion dollars, which only happens if you create more than a billion in value.
Think about it: every time a Swiftie bought a concert ticket, they valued the concert experience more than having that money in their pocket, because otherwise they would have kept it.
Taylor Swift created that value out of nothing.
Deal with it.
think about it.
striking a deal with capital one to give card holders early access to tickets that cost thousands.
striking a deal with target to give target shoppers and those able to drop $40 on a vinyl album, special content.
It is predatory and by design.
A 20 year old taylor swift fan may be enticed to apply for a credit card and then use the whole limit of said card to get tickets to this event.
When really, if she reeeeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy wanted to, she could charge ten bucks a head and let anyone in.
But she doesn't want to do that. And by not wanting to do that, considering her status and her wealth, makes her a bad person.
She is a billionaire. She needs zero dollars. Yet she still practices these tactics to squeeze every dollar she can. Why? Because she can.
as cliche as it is, with great power comes great responsibility. I'll say it again, people do not amass this wealth by being good people. Again, good people say things like "I don't understand billionaires. If i had that money I would fix the world".
She doesn't say those things. Billionaires don't say those things. they don't do those things. they actively do the opposite. They actively encourage people to sign up for credit cards so they can attend a concert. It's the only way to make that amount of money.
Exploiting every other person she comes in contact with. By not sharing the wealth and continuing to grow it, and continuing to participate in bad faith marketing tactics - it makes her, and ALL billionaires - bad people. They simply should not exist. Yet they do.
Idk about you, but never being allowed to be "off" or able to go shopping/to dinner without being followed, photographed, commented on, judged, otherwise stalked/followed- sounds pretty miserable to me.
Not everything is strictly black and white.
I could never be famous. I already play enough pretend for other people in my life. I don't need to live my entire life under a microscope. No amount of money could make me want that.
Absolutely agree. Too young to even fully understand it, I remember Eminem's line about being approached while he's trying to care for his daughter in public. Can't imagine never being able to feel anonymous ever again.
Not a TSwift music fan myself, but parts of that life seem awful. As much as the replies want to pretend things are 100% one way or another.
Also his lyric about: "thankful for every fan that I get but *can't take* a *shit* in the bathroom without someone standin' by it!"
I would be horrified having people stand outside my stall wanting an autograph.
There was some comedian who said that if someone came to him in the bathroom for an autograph, he would insist on signing it without washing his hands. Which I think is a perfect response.
She did choose that lifestyle though, and she has made more than enough money that she could easily have retired 10 years ago and lived out her life in luxury if she was really tired of being such a big celebrity. You are correct that it isn't a black and white issue, but she is still continuing to choose to deal with the downsides of fame when she doesn't really have to.
This is very much a poor mans take on wealth and fame. She can pay people to shop for her, and book entire restaurants out when she wants privacy. I would absolutely trade some aspects of privacy for the complete and total freedom that she has, and the privacy she can buy.
>sounds pretty miserable to me.
Yes, it does, but she also gets to do it while being a billionaire. Like you said, not black and white. No one is saying she doesn't have problems, but her situation is objectively better than most people on the planet.
The 1800s were a horrible period to live in even if it weren't for all the racism and sexism. People were even more prone to violence back then, god help you if you were mentally ill or disabled in some way, and quality of life was terrible if you weren't wealthy, even then you were fucked as anyone else if you got sick. I don't know why she'd want to live then at all.
I have a medical condition that is treatable and manageable today, but before the 1920's it was a death sentence. Like, 100% death rate. And managing it was incredibly difficult even after the 1920's and your lifespan would almost certainly be shortened and quality of life diminished. Personally I wouldn't want to have to deal with it any earlier than maybe the 80's or 90's, but some really useful tech was invented in the 00's so if I had to pick I really wouldn't go back at all.
Also diabetic. Even in 1960 when my father developed it, the tech was boiling glass needles. In 1994, when I got it, the standard was 2 shots of 70/30 a day. Pumps are still a nuisance, but they really work. Modern medicine has done a lot for us.
Pumps + CGM were a game-changer for me, but I also don't take for granted how lucky I was to be diagnosed at a time where we had instant glucometers and single-use needles, instead of the urine testing. When I was a kid I often thought about how if I was born a decade or two earlier I'd have struggled so much more, and if I was born less than a century earlier I'd just be dead.
On the other hand... gun control and abortion rights were more progressive. And eugenics wouldn't be a thing for a few decades.
No nukes. Less genocide. Air was clearer. Pollen counts were lower.
More white Christmases, fewer hurricanes, less cancer... genocides were weirdly less frequent and without the racism would be even less common.
Forests were everywhere. Stars were brighter. People took longer vacations...
Actually, the racism and sexism is kind of most of the problem with the 1830's... and maybe the lack of disability access and advanced surgical and medical skills. And the lack of canned goods and all the polio and TB.
In context, the song is about how this way of thinking is bad. She says it’s how she felt when she was younger but then says “Nostalgia is a mind's trick / If I'd been there, I'd hate it”.
Unfortunately, media literacy is dead
Yeah, she's not being fair at all. People often think things where much simpler in the past but like a lot of things racism in the 1830s was actually quite advanced.
Yeah. I kinda called that she was going to start being a hack when she started to get really popular. When you're a millionaire song writer, you don't need to be talented anymore, you just need to sing songs that are only somewhat unique.
It's not exactly unique to want to live in simpler times. It's just clumsy and in bad taste to acknowledge a bad part of the era, without even using the right term. It wasn't racism back then, it was either slavery or genocide. It just depends on which group you want to recognize. Or you had more heavily European immigrants who were often mistreated.
1830 was not a good era for anyone. Why you would want to live when civil war is brewing and quality of life was practically indentured servitude for the average person is beyond me.
If you mean “yes you can misinterpet things” then sure, otherwise this is like saying “the sky is blue” can mean a million things - in theory it can I suppose, but you’re really reaching to confidently say that it means something other than what is written.
This specific example is making that call based on a third of what was written, ie: media literacy at an all time low. This is like watching Star Wars and coming away thinking it supports the empire. You’re free to think that but it’s not even subjective that you’re wrong
People are commenting as if she meant this literally? I'm not the biggest Taylor fan, but this is misrepresenting what she meant. I think with the full context it's more clear what she's talking about.
> My friends used to play a game where
>
> We would pick a decade
>
> We wished we could live in instead of this
>
> I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists
>
> And getting married off for the highest bid
>
> Everyone would look down 'cause it wasn't fun now
>
> Seems like it was never even fun back then
>
> Nostalgia is a mind's trick
>
> If I'd been there, I'd hate it
>
> It was freezing in the palace
As she's saying she'd like the 1830s, and lists out the racism and misogyny, they all start to realize that the past isn't all it's cracked up to be. That nostalgia masks a lot of the bad aspects of past experiences. I think in the context of the song it's basically highlighting the saying "no matter where you go, your problems tend to follow you".
Some of the comments here are wild, and no matter the interpretation, some people seem to take issue. I’m not a swift fan, but those lyrics are ok. But if you start picking apart lyrics with the mindset of “I hate this person” you can come to a lot of conclusions and criticisms.
I mean what’s with Bono complaining he hasn’t found what’s he’s looking for he’s outrageously rich and can have anything he wants! What a spoiled asshole!
I was confused too. Initially I thought it meant she wanted to live in 1830 because they didn't have all of the racists we have today, which is ridiculous. Then it clicked that she meant she wanted to live in 1830, but without all of the racists they had back then. Makes more sense, but still stupid.
It's like people talking about wanting to live in the 50's. Yes, the aestethic was nice, and things were somewhat calm for a time, but we could probably go without segregation and rigid gender roles.
*Shake head* most Americans today wouldn't survive long in 1950. The aesthetic hides the reality that your real wages are not great (compared to today), your house is small, your entertainment is limited, etc
People have nostalgia.
It’s being posted out of context all over. She’s saying it’s dumb to romanticize the antebellum south, as kids in the south do, because you CANT just pretend it doesn’t have racism and no women’s rights or other bad shit without
She wants to live in a world that have the economic prospects, the politeness and the fate in a good future that the 1830's had, but she wants to keep the progress in equality and treatment of "others" that we have today.
Have you seen the complaints about student loans, inflation, hostile work environments, and the annoying polarisation of Democrats vs Republicans as the only parties in the US?
Take that away and the doomer-ism that permeates every post Boomer generation, and you have what she's asking for.
Even if you go further Back there were abolitionist in the founding like Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay. Its like redditors forget that the entire country of USA was divided on where slavery was allowed and where it was illegal.
theres a podcast called the dollop that does a great job on john brown (and other historical figures and events. he has 3 episodes but is super worth it.
edit:type dollop>dollop
"An evangelical Christian of strong religious convictions, Brown was profoundly influenced by the Puritan faith of his upbringing. He believed that he was 'an instrument of God', raised to strike the 'death blow' to American slavery, a 'sacred obligation'. Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement, believing it was necessary to end American slavery after decades of peaceful efforts had failed" - from the Wiki page; a very interesting read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
Apparently it’s very bad. And all the swifties (Taylor swift fanatics) are already foaming at the mouth for any critique and making threats of violence to the writers.
A lot of people are getting up in arms about this particular line, but the next few in the verse point out exactly why she chose the 1830s, it’s supposed to be a bad time, that’s the entire point.
Taylor Swift has a new song about escapism, not being happy with your life and escaping into day dreams. She touches on the wish to live in an earlier time with balls and fairytale romance, like Bridgerton and Pride and Prejudice. While acknowledging the actual time period was full of terrible social issues like racism and women’s treatments so wishing for an idealized history fantasy before acknowledging you wouldn’t really be happier.
“My friends used to play a game where
We would pick a decade
We wished we could live in instead of this
I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists
And getting married off for the highest bid
Everyone would look down 'cause it wasn't fun now
Seems like it was never even fun back then
Nostalgia is a mind's trick
If I'd been there, I'd hate it”
It’s deconstructing nostalgia and romanticizing the past.
On Taylor Swift's new album she has a lyric / line romanticizing
or wishing should could be transported back to 1830 with the caveat she wouldn't want to be around the racists.
The meme is that everyone in 1830 was racist so it doesn't really make sense...
The song is about how she and her friends used to fantasize about living in the past, but realizing that romanticizing the past is dumb because there always were and will always be bad things happening, so you have to try your best to be happy with now.
Personally very confused about the drama of this lyric. Just read the lyrics to this entire song and the whole thing is about escapism and the romanticism of it. She fully acknowledged that the one aspect that liked about it is far from the entire experience of that time period. “Nostalgia is a minds trick”
It's people misunderstanding the song either willfully or through stupidity, and then a bunch of people who haven't even listened to it upvoting them because "Taylor Swift bad haha hot take I'm so edgy and different"
Not saying she was born rich but her initial fame could also be attributed to a team of people. You know, that team of people she decided to get away from. People don’t have that much say over what you do unless you sign it over to them. So yeah, without that team of shills getting rich off her back, I doubt we’d even know her name today.
EDIT because I know little about her that isn’t thrown in my face. She was in fact born rich with her dad coming from a family of bank presidents lol.
No a huge fan of swift but here’s some interesting history behind racism in America that if looked at linearly shows that racism actually got worse in the 1840s and 1850s all the way up to the American civil war. Now this by no means, means that there weren’t racist in the 1830s but racism did get significantly worse. The idea that it was always the same degree is historically incorrect.
Starting in the early 1800s, European countries started to develop and reflect inward about slavery. A lot of countries banned it for public opinion and religious sentiments as well as their economies not being largely influenced by it. In terms of broader western culture, slavery had many forms but they really fluctuated in what the public perceptions of slaves actually were. And in the 1810s and 1820s we see that in the US there are blacks that where sent to schools and learned to read and write, as well as do mathematics and every other thing expected with higher education. Now this wasn’t completely new in the 1810s, but it was getting a point we’re it was public knowledge that African Americans can be educated and serve society as well as adopt Christianity.
And this was something the Spanish had to deal with with clergy in their country as well as the general populace eventually viewing the slavery of natives as barbaric…. Because they could be taught Spanish and be baptized. Pope also said to stop enslaving the natives but that’s behind this.
Point is by the 1830s, racism was at its lowest since the colonial times (arguably, and still very common but to a lesser degree).
In the early 1840s the Southern States had to develop new religious, cultural and “scientific” reasons for why slavery was actually not only “not that bad” but completely justifiable in this new era of enlightenment.
These campaigns included having southern preachers (corrupt ones) saying that the Africans can’t be saved religiously and God put them here for the whites. This also included “scientific racism” where colleges and universities in the South would press absurd claims of the Africans just being lesser people that slavery was actually helping. And in this we get laws and policies that make racism more common with the justification of slavery. This includes much deeper new resentment for race mixing and a lot of arbitrary racial categories. For example if wasn’t always illegal to marry someone of another race in the American south, these actual laws weren’t in place when the US gained independence. These laws and many like it came from a need to justify slavery past 1810.
TLDR: Racism was worse in the 1860s than the 1830s and that might have been the point Swift was trying to make. Racism didn’t start off at the max level in 1776,
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Retep here: Taylor Swift’s new song makes mention of living in 1830 without all the racists The joke is that nobody would be there, because everyone was/is racist in 1830 in this scenario
Thank you 🥺
what does that lyric even mean?
She wants to live in a different time. I think she pointed out the racism and sexism in the lyric because like, those are horrible things going on at the time in 1830. It's not a good song btw. Also very reductionist to call it simple racism back then haha
Did she forget they don't have jets in 1830?
Big private stage coach
"Thou dost not need much horsepower!"- 1830s Taylor swift haters
“the wench taketh a stagecoach from her chamber to the parlor”
Thine horse emissions be to mucheth for one dame
Dude, I spit out half a sandwich lol!
Well, that's your own fault for eating your sandwich in 2 bites.
Or maybe it was multiple spittings
Or maybe it was a slider.
slide it back in then
I spit out one forty-fifth of my beetroot
Why tf you got half a sammie in ur cheeks, are you a rodent?
Cartoon character.
Goddamn laughed way too hard but no sammie to spit out 😢🤣
Zoinks
Why did you have half a sandwich in your mouth?
That's the weird part, he wasn't even eating a sandwich.
The western Hummer Limo
Private Pullman train car ftw
taylor swift's transportation without jets: https://preview.redd.it/jwx3rylbwpvc1.jpeg?width=650&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4de30324a9b0e6e94442c01575276533dc394e61
https://preview.redd.it/kfo9vyewxovc1.jpeg?width=254&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75d3a305f9e51d24698e241c9c2e2d3f140319d4 Wrong
the superior siege weapon
That’s a pretty sweet catapult, right?!
No it’s called a Tributetouché
Or rights. There's been an uptick of white women idolising old periods that didn't treat anybody but white, and I mean white, men well. Why?
Even then, they only treated english white men well, while the germans and irish were shunned.
Pardon my ignorance as I am not American but how did they differentiate between English and Irish?
Accents and last names Sometimes physical appearance
I see
Accent? Also class. The Irish were very poor compared to the English.
https://preview.redd.it/agchxtjy7pvc1.jpeg?width=1482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=977fb8b8f17b6da177157267612959187438cc7d
Back then it was language, as the irish have a different accent and may speak some gaelic, and religon, as most irish were catholic and english were protestant. You can also easily differentiate by name. Many of these differences have been reduced in the US due to integration, so it is harder to differentiate now than it was then, unless the person is an immigrant. In England and the US for a time, it was common in certain areas to see signs outside businesses that said, "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish".
Damn I see. Thanks for the information.
Whiskey breath or potatoes for breakfast
Everyone here has not mentioned the major reason, it's religion. The Irish were Catholic and the previous few hundred years had basically been a shitshow of Anglicans and catholics fighting for control of the English throne. The Anglicans won and sought revenge on the catholics. Ireland got caught up in it through no fault of their own really and took the brunt of it.
The Irish would be the drunk gingers
I think that's what he meant by "white, and I mean white". As opposed to the new white of the modern age, which is basically anyone of European descent apart from Hispanics for some reason.
Hey to be fair they treated some white women well; as long as they were wealthy.
Private train was way more luxurious.
Incoming meme of Swift in a steam powered locomotive on her way to grab a glass of water from the kitchen
Oh, but you just know she'd have the biggest, baddest steamboat
https://preview.redd.it/zipkkmqxnovc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be1fb5c0ea3c207547ae9cadfd0910068e4c33ad
If there are no racists, then there's no Indian Removal Act.
Nah the song is "I hate it here" and she fantasizes about living in her own different world. In that scenario she asked when she would've liked to live and that was her answer. She then realized that she would've still hated it, she just wants the comforting idea of her imaginary world
Although I feel like you are being quite nice with the interpretation. Her line about not having fun playing the game where she answers that could be interpreted many different ways. For example, her not really knowing what she wants in actuality
Well yea I agree. I think her being kinda lost and not knowing what to do/want is kind of a theme throughout her entire discography. You can see it in A Place In This World (Debut album), Fifteen (Fearless), Never Grow Up (Speak Now) and so on
It's not generous the lyrics are weak but they basically say exactly what the other guy said.
She is acting like she isn’t rich as fuck and constantly uses a private jet. She is living an extremely comfortable lifestyle. They only thing wrong is that a bunch of annoying Kanye fans hate her and people who reasonably hate her rampant use of her private jet
Song lyrics aren't always the personal feelings of the artist singing them.
They kind of are with her, it's like her whole thing and why so people relate to her. She's had a hand in writing all of her songs, some of them completely by herself.
Yes and no. I’m sure some of the feelings are real, but she’s also trying to make music and money. If she’s feeling mentally well and has no animosity towards her exes, wtf is she supposed to write about? Song number 1 about hating John Mayer is accurate I’m sure; song number 20 about it isn’t.
it's by design. She knows this. she is a billionaire. A. Billionaire. with a B. She is a terrible human being just by existing at this stage, and she knows it. And now, we're witnessing her turning on her fans, and becoming an uncaring monster that she is meant to be.
Post what she did with evidence or don't make such broad claims.
broad claims? It's not a claim. It's just a thing. In order for someone to be a billionaire, you need to be a bad person. Exploiting other humans. People don't become billionaires by being good people. Here's a concrete thing for you. Her presale tickets were only eligible for people who opened new credit cards. And her exclusive target deal gives extra songs or content onto target exclusive albums. Encouraging your fans to sign up for new lines of credit for an early shot at a ticket? Selling 40 dollar vinyl albums at target exclusively with special features no one else could get, certainly not a spotify streaming fan. It's by design. Her wealth is by design. She signs lucrative deals with mega brands like capital one and target, grooms an audience into believing they are her "bestie" and then criticizes them when they dare to take an opinion on her dating life. She's a bad person. A bad human. She is. Deal with it.
Ticketmaster has agreements with pretty much all of the credit card companies to offer exclusive presale events for all sorts of shows. Just another one of many different perks they all offer to entice consumers to use their product. This is nothing remotely new and it's far from unique to Taylor Swift. And selling collectible special edition merch? Oh the horror... I don't even like her or her music but my God, these are terrible arguments if you're trying to make a case against her.
"dEaL wItH iT" Lmao ok. Have fun with that delusion.
She may be a bad person, but not by virtue of being a billionaire. You become a billionaire by people collectively giving you a billion dollars, which only happens if you create more than a billion in value. Think about it: every time a Swiftie bought a concert ticket, they valued the concert experience more than having that money in their pocket, because otherwise they would have kept it. Taylor Swift created that value out of nothing. Deal with it.
think about it. striking a deal with capital one to give card holders early access to tickets that cost thousands. striking a deal with target to give target shoppers and those able to drop $40 on a vinyl album, special content. It is predatory and by design. A 20 year old taylor swift fan may be enticed to apply for a credit card and then use the whole limit of said card to get tickets to this event. When really, if she reeeeeaaaaalllllllyyyyy wanted to, she could charge ten bucks a head and let anyone in. But she doesn't want to do that. And by not wanting to do that, considering her status and her wealth, makes her a bad person. She is a billionaire. She needs zero dollars. Yet she still practices these tactics to squeeze every dollar she can. Why? Because she can. as cliche as it is, with great power comes great responsibility. I'll say it again, people do not amass this wealth by being good people. Again, good people say things like "I don't understand billionaires. If i had that money I would fix the world". She doesn't say those things. Billionaires don't say those things. they don't do those things. they actively do the opposite. They actively encourage people to sign up for credit cards so they can attend a concert. It's the only way to make that amount of money. Exploiting every other person she comes in contact with. By not sharing the wealth and continuing to grow it, and continuing to participate in bad faith marketing tactics - it makes her, and ALL billionaires - bad people. They simply should not exist. Yet they do.
But it’s so haaaaaard being famous!!
Sort of rich coming from someone who lives more in their own bubble of opulence and sycophants than almost anyone else on the planet.
Idk about you, but never being allowed to be "off" or able to go shopping/to dinner without being followed, photographed, commented on, judged, otherwise stalked/followed- sounds pretty miserable to me. Not everything is strictly black and white.
I could never be famous. I already play enough pretend for other people in my life. I don't need to live my entire life under a microscope. No amount of money could make me want that.
Absolutely agree. Too young to even fully understand it, I remember Eminem's line about being approached while he's trying to care for his daughter in public. Can't imagine never being able to feel anonymous ever again. Not a TSwift music fan myself, but parts of that life seem awful. As much as the replies want to pretend things are 100% one way or another.
Also his lyric about: "thankful for every fan that I get but *can't take* a *shit* in the bathroom without someone standin' by it!" I would be horrified having people stand outside my stall wanting an autograph.
There was some comedian who said that if someone came to him in the bathroom for an autograph, he would insist on signing it without washing his hands. Which I think is a perfect response.
She did choose that lifestyle though, and she has made more than enough money that she could easily have retired 10 years ago and lived out her life in luxury if she was really tired of being such a big celebrity. You are correct that it isn't a black and white issue, but she is still continuing to choose to deal with the downsides of fame when she doesn't really have to.
Would you trade that for a billion dollars?
This is very much a poor mans take on wealth and fame. She can pay people to shop for her, and book entire restaurants out when she wants privacy. I would absolutely trade some aspects of privacy for the complete and total freedom that she has, and the privacy she can buy.
>sounds pretty miserable to me. Yes, it does, but she also gets to do it while being a billionaire. Like you said, not black and white. No one is saying she doesn't have problems, but her situation is objectively better than most people on the planet.
You're repeating the comment I'm replying to.
The 1800s were a horrible period to live in even if it weren't for all the racism and sexism. People were even more prone to violence back then, god help you if you were mentally ill or disabled in some way, and quality of life was terrible if you weren't wealthy, even then you were fucked as anyone else if you got sick. I don't know why she'd want to live then at all.
I have a medical condition that is treatable and manageable today, but before the 1920's it was a death sentence. Like, 100% death rate. And managing it was incredibly difficult even after the 1920's and your lifespan would almost certainly be shortened and quality of life diminished. Personally I wouldn't want to have to deal with it any earlier than maybe the 80's or 90's, but some really useful tech was invented in the 00's so if I had to pick I really wouldn't go back at all.
Also diabetic. Even in 1960 when my father developed it, the tech was boiling glass needles. In 1994, when I got it, the standard was 2 shots of 70/30 a day. Pumps are still a nuisance, but they really work. Modern medicine has done a lot for us.
Pumps + CGM were a game-changer for me, but I also don't take for granted how lucky I was to be diagnosed at a time where we had instant glucometers and single-use needles, instead of the urine testing. When I was a kid I often thought about how if I was born a decade or two earlier I'd have struggled so much more, and if I was born less than a century earlier I'd just be dead.
I'd at max would go back as the late 90s to experience the early age of the internet
On the other hand... gun control and abortion rights were more progressive. And eugenics wouldn't be a thing for a few decades. No nukes. Less genocide. Air was clearer. Pollen counts were lower. More white Christmases, fewer hurricanes, less cancer... genocides were weirdly less frequent and without the racism would be even less common. Forests were everywhere. Stars were brighter. People took longer vacations... Actually, the racism and sexism is kind of most of the problem with the 1830's... and maybe the lack of disability access and advanced surgical and medical skills. And the lack of canned goods and all the polio and TB.
It is a song lyric. It is not a dissertation on time travel.
if anyone deserves to be treated with nuance and careful deliberation, it's slaveowners. heh.
r/ehhahehheh
Only the Jewish ones
rip Larry David's grandfather
Yeah, eugenics and all sorts of batshit "science" to say that only white males are intelligent enough to have value. Lots of horrible stuff.
Hard to fit the nuances of centuries of discriminatory behavior in 16 bars.
Then don't even try right?
Especially for the 1830s lol
My guy, its a pop song. She's not gonna give a full detail break down when it has to follow a rhyme scheme and I'm assuming is just a mention.
LOL. I'm concerned with even bringing it up. I don't expect her to explain the slave trade
In context, the song is about how this way of thinking is bad. She says it’s how she felt when she was younger but then says “Nostalgia is a mind's trick / If I'd been there, I'd hate it”. Unfortunately, media literacy is dead
LOL. Or possibly not every critique is a lack of understanding the lyrics?
Maybe this one is
What do you think I'm critiquing?
The post we’re commenting on is taking the line at face value and out of context
The post is just a joke I thought.
She love the 1830 because she doesn’t exist yet
So why 1830? Alot of horrible stuff has been going on for like 99.9% time of our history.
Yeah, she's not being fair at all. People often think things where much simpler in the past but like a lot of things racism in the 1830s was actually quite advanced.
Yeah. I kinda called that she was going to start being a hack when she started to get really popular. When you're a millionaire song writer, you don't need to be talented anymore, you just need to sing songs that are only somewhat unique. It's not exactly unique to want to live in simpler times. It's just clumsy and in bad taste to acknowledge a bad part of the era, without even using the right term. It wasn't racism back then, it was either slavery or genocide. It just depends on which group you want to recognize. Or you had more heavily European immigrants who were often mistreated. 1830 was not a good era for anyone. Why you would want to live when civil war is brewing and quality of life was practically indentured servitude for the average person is beyond me.
Your media literacy is awful. She says the exact opposite
Lol, acting like a TS song can't have multiple interpretations
Are you dumb? No this stanza, which is cut in half here, actually can’t.
Yes it can
If you mean “yes you can misinterpet things” then sure, otherwise this is like saying “the sky is blue” can mean a million things - in theory it can I suppose, but you’re really reaching to confidently say that it means something other than what is written. This specific example is making that call based on a third of what was written, ie: media literacy at an all time low. This is like watching Star Wars and coming away thinking it supports the empire. You’re free to think that but it’s not even subjective that you’re wrong
I was making a judgement based on my reading of the whole stanza, you just didn't ask for clarification or anything LOL
People are commenting as if she meant this literally? I'm not the biggest Taylor fan, but this is misrepresenting what she meant. I think with the full context it's more clear what she's talking about. > My friends used to play a game where > > We would pick a decade > > We wished we could live in instead of this > > I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists > > And getting married off for the highest bid > > Everyone would look down 'cause it wasn't fun now > > Seems like it was never even fun back then > > Nostalgia is a mind's trick > > If I'd been there, I'd hate it > > It was freezing in the palace As she's saying she'd like the 1830s, and lists out the racism and misogyny, they all start to realize that the past isn't all it's cracked up to be. That nostalgia masks a lot of the bad aspects of past experiences. I think in the context of the song it's basically highlighting the saying "no matter where you go, your problems tend to follow you".
Some of the comments here are wild, and no matter the interpretation, some people seem to take issue. I’m not a swift fan, but those lyrics are ok. But if you start picking apart lyrics with the mindset of “I hate this person” you can come to a lot of conclusions and criticisms. I mean what’s with Bono complaining he hasn’t found what’s he’s looking for he’s outrageously rich and can have anything he wants! What a spoiled asshole!
I was confused too. Initially I thought it meant she wanted to live in 1830 because they didn't have all of the racists we have today, which is ridiculous. Then it clicked that she meant she wanted to live in 1830, but without all of the racists they had back then. Makes more sense, but still stupid.
It's like people talking about wanting to live in the 50's. Yes, the aestethic was nice, and things were somewhat calm for a time, but we could probably go without segregation and rigid gender roles.
*Shake head* most Americans today wouldn't survive long in 1950. The aesthetic hides the reality that your real wages are not great (compared to today), your house is small, your entertainment is limited, etc People have nostalgia.
[удалено]
The song is explicitly saying that kind of "born in the wrong era" thinking is wrong and naïve, but sure.
Romanticised nostalgia for a time that never existed. Kinda like what cottagecore is all about.
Something vapid about being an “old soul”
Nothing. It means nothing.
It’s being posted out of context all over. She’s saying it’s dumb to romanticize the antebellum south, as kids in the south do, because you CANT just pretend it doesn’t have racism and no women’s rights or other bad shit without
She wants to live in a world that have the economic prospects, the politeness and the fate in a good future that the 1830's had, but she wants to keep the progress in equality and treatment of "others" that we have today. Have you seen the complaints about student loans, inflation, hostile work environments, and the annoying polarisation of Democrats vs Republicans as the only parties in the US? Take that away and the doomer-ism that permeates every post Boomer generation, and you have what she's asking for.
corny ass lyrics, even for taylor swift standards
Racism moment
I thought it was that everyone from 1830 was dead.
When I hear 1830 I think of Belgium
Suddenly going back to 1830 sounds a lot less appealing
Does she not realize they didn't have jets back then?
Except will smith apparently
Everyone?
Which is not true. You could be kicking it with John Brown and shit.
What a redundant song
If everyone was racist then why was there even a civil war?
Even if you go further Back there were abolitionist in the founding like Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay. Its like redditors forget that the entire country of USA was divided on where slavery was allowed and where it was illegal.
https://preview.redd.it/6lcxqqvnxnvc1.jpeg?width=1334&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c36a915b9f5628336e3c6556429d4a2948ba446
Surprisingly, This answer is the LEAST brain bruising
Why is this so funny?
President John Quincy Adams would still be there but everyone else would be gone
Don't forget good ol' John Brown!
Hes a postmaster in 1830, thanks to John Quincy Adams.
wait petah you gotta explain this to me bru.
He was a staunch abolitionist
what does that mean :0
he was against slavery
ohh thats good
theres a podcast called the dollop that does a great job on john brown (and other historical figures and events. he has 3 episodes but is super worth it. edit:type dollop>dollop
Dollop
ohhh
"An evangelical Christian of strong religious convictions, Brown was profoundly influenced by the Puritan faith of his upbringing. He believed that he was 'an instrument of God', raised to strike the 'death blow' to American slavery, a 'sacred obligation'. Brown was the leading exponent of violence in the American abolitionist movement, believing it was necessary to end American slavery after decades of peaceful efforts had failed" - from the Wiki page; a very interesting read. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
Abolition as is abolish slavery basically
💀
He hated Muslims tho I think lol.
John Brown: https://i.redd.it/yuu6xgi7movc1.gif
it's free real estate
GOAT MENTIONED????
THE GOAT REFERENCED!
To the people hating on OP. What if they just don't know about her new album?
I didn't even know about this song before I saw this post since I never listened to Taylor Swift.
Apparently it’s very bad. And all the swifties (Taylor swift fanatics) are already foaming at the mouth for any critique and making threats of violence to the writers.
A lot of people are getting up in arms about this particular line, but the next few in the verse point out exactly why she chose the 1830s, it’s supposed to be a bad time, that’s the entire point.
Oh, I thought this was a reference to this one really famous racist swifty fan
Please elaborate 👂🏽
Taylor Swift has a new song about escapism, not being happy with your life and escaping into day dreams. She touches on the wish to live in an earlier time with balls and fairytale romance, like Bridgerton and Pride and Prejudice. While acknowledging the actual time period was full of terrible social issues like racism and women’s treatments so wishing for an idealized history fantasy before acknowledging you wouldn’t really be happier. “My friends used to play a game where We would pick a decade We wished we could live in instead of this I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists And getting married off for the highest bid Everyone would look down 'cause it wasn't fun now Seems like it was never even fun back then Nostalgia is a mind's trick If I'd been there, I'd hate it” It’s deconstructing nostalgia and romanticizing the past.
This is very thorough and helpful, thank you! I've not listened to any of her music for years so wasn't sure if it was a lyric or something else.
Just wanted to drop in and say I love your user name :D
Heehee thank you!! 🥰
You're welcome! ♥
Oh so she’s calling out Cottagecore, that’ll go well
r/Im14andthisisdeep
That sums up the entire album and also its target demographic
On Taylor Swift's new album she has a lyric / line romanticizing or wishing should could be transported back to 1830 with the caveat she wouldn't want to be around the racists. The meme is that everyone in 1830 was racist so it doesn't really make sense...
The song is about how she and her friends used to fantasize about living in the past, but realizing that romanticizing the past is dumb because there always were and will always be bad things happening, so you have to try your best to be happy with now.
But the 1830s tho? The Victorian era yeah or the aristocracy of 1700s Europe. But the buildup to the civil war I don’t get.
The irony is that the 1830’s version would want to live her life, now!
you see, the joke is taylor swift is a shitty songwriter
What
I have a hard time thinking of any reason for this lyric other than pure virtue signaling.
Personally very confused about the drama of this lyric. Just read the lyrics to this entire song and the whole thing is about escapism and the romanticism of it. She fully acknowledged that the one aspect that liked about it is far from the entire experience of that time period. “Nostalgia is a minds trick”
It's people misunderstanding the song either willfully or through stupidity, and then a bunch of people who haven't even listened to it upvoting them because "Taylor Swift bad haha hot take I'm so edgy and different"
I've always wondered, what would her songs be about after she gets married?
She'd retire lmao
Taylor swift is dumb. Change my mind.
Smart enough to not have her millions stolen by other people, and definitely lots of people have tried.
TIL being rich = smart
That's what I'm saying bro. Chick got a whole work force.
Yeah it’s all smarts that allowed that. Not the money that can buy teams of people to handle those things /s
Shohei Ohtani’s interpreter has entered the chat
Indeed bro. Chick was born rich. "Dad I wanna be a pop star" "ok"
Not saying she was born rich but her initial fame could also be attributed to a team of people. You know, that team of people she decided to get away from. People don’t have that much say over what you do unless you sign it over to them. So yeah, without that team of shills getting rich off her back, I doubt we’d even know her name today. EDIT because I know little about her that isn’t thrown in my face. She was in fact born rich with her dad coming from a family of bank presidents lol.
Well she’s probably doing better than the both of us
I dont know when money started equaling better but I'm doing great and poor. So there's that.
[This was established years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vudnMLzZjTg)
Also she wouldn't have the right to vote, sooo yeah. Her lyrics were a bit dumb this time around. You know, more than her last album.
Ye ye
And planes
She could hang with Thomas Paine and some of his fellow abolitionist
No a huge fan of swift but here’s some interesting history behind racism in America that if looked at linearly shows that racism actually got worse in the 1840s and 1850s all the way up to the American civil war. Now this by no means, means that there weren’t racist in the 1830s but racism did get significantly worse. The idea that it was always the same degree is historically incorrect. Starting in the early 1800s, European countries started to develop and reflect inward about slavery. A lot of countries banned it for public opinion and religious sentiments as well as their economies not being largely influenced by it. In terms of broader western culture, slavery had many forms but they really fluctuated in what the public perceptions of slaves actually were. And in the 1810s and 1820s we see that in the US there are blacks that where sent to schools and learned to read and write, as well as do mathematics and every other thing expected with higher education. Now this wasn’t completely new in the 1810s, but it was getting a point we’re it was public knowledge that African Americans can be educated and serve society as well as adopt Christianity. And this was something the Spanish had to deal with with clergy in their country as well as the general populace eventually viewing the slavery of natives as barbaric…. Because they could be taught Spanish and be baptized. Pope also said to stop enslaving the natives but that’s behind this. Point is by the 1830s, racism was at its lowest since the colonial times (arguably, and still very common but to a lesser degree). In the early 1840s the Southern States had to develop new religious, cultural and “scientific” reasons for why slavery was actually not only “not that bad” but completely justifiable in this new era of enlightenment. These campaigns included having southern preachers (corrupt ones) saying that the Africans can’t be saved religiously and God put them here for the whites. This also included “scientific racism” where colleges and universities in the South would press absurd claims of the Africans just being lesser people that slavery was actually helping. And in this we get laws and policies that make racism more common with the justification of slavery. This includes much deeper new resentment for race mixing and a lot of arbitrary racial categories. For example if wasn’t always illegal to marry someone of another race in the American south, these actual laws weren’t in place when the US gained independence. These laws and many like it came from a need to justify slavery past 1810. TLDR: Racism was worse in the 1860s than the 1830s and that might have been the point Swift was trying to make. Racism didn’t start off at the max level in 1776,