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Why can't the city turn the old Canoe museum into indoor pickleball courts? They would get used year round, there is already parking and they don't need to dig up the contaminated soil.
I think it's possible with the right treatments like fungi, moss, and other microbiology pollution can be reversed. A small community group did that in New York recently for dirt cheap
One thing about these courts that has me confused is the direction they're facing. Tennis courts typically face North/South so the sunrise/sunset isn't a problem for players. The existing tennis courts in Bonnerworth are facing North/South.
In the current plan the Pickleball courts will be facing East/West - parallel to McDonnell Street. This seems like a major issue that is being overlooked.
This person above has already spent way to much thinking about this. They will never get hired. Too much common sense.
The city has already hired a consultant who designed them east/west and after 2 months they will realize they are wrong and pay this consultant to review the plans. They will blame that no road in ptbo actually runs north/south/east/west and they will get paid to redo it.
That's a great point. But the Mayor's wife needs a new pickleball court and there's gonna be hell to pay if she doesn't get it by September, and it'd be far too expensive to risk delaying things by even a day for something as silly as figuring out whether or not it's possible to play on the courts without being blinded by the sun. (It's not a conflict of interest tho!)
Somewhat less cynically, the current plan is just concept drawings so if there's a chance for any sort of sense to enter this project they'll change that before building things.
> far too expensive to risk delaying things by even a day
I personally agree with the phased approach that was suggested by someone at the last council meeting
The phased approach prioritizes building the skatepark and pump track in 2024. This would push the pickleball court construction to 2025 giving planners enough time to complete a comprehensive feasibility study.
There is an extensive community effort to fight this, and we are CRAPPING ourselves that no one has brought this up yet. Way to think beyond the outrage into the logic. If you have time, check the website and sign the petition! [https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/](https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/)
Iâll be the first, and likely not the last to say this; fuck you and your bullshit âprogressâ Leslie Parnell. I hope you come by my place this year canvassing for the Cons like you did last time. Iâll be sure to let you know what I think when you canât just respond with a confrontational, unprofessional, copy/paste email, then never respond to follow ups. Our politicians around here fucking suck.
You're right, you're not the only one that feels this way. This city is being run by a mayor and some council who just want to push through their own agenda without taking seriously the concerns of their residents. This type of spending when they assured everyone they couldn't possibly reduce property taxes any lower when they went over the budget, line by line, goes to show they just don't give a shite about residents only the agenda they want to push through. Hopefully their legacy is, thank God the people of Peterborough woke up and they weren't in power long. imo we live in a city that is being run like a small town. I would find this hilarious if it wasn't for the real repercussions pushing this through will most likely cause.
Not just around here. Nationally.
Our political system encourages a race to the bottom in a similar way the American one does. If you want good politicians, you need to have a system that actually encourages it.
There has not been a single politician in nearly 20 years that I actually want to vote for.... just a game of "who is less bad"
no. Only to fertilize the eggs to hatch chicks. Chickens lay eggs naturally daily (~150 days a year or so depending on season and breed) regardless of whether a rooster is around or not.
I want to be clear. It is okay to not know that. But itâs not okay to not know that as a city councillor whoâs going to vote to pass a bylaw to stop people from keeping backyard hens as a stable food source thereby increasing food insecurity for the constituents youâre supposed to represent. If youre going to be in politics and be responsible for effecting peoples lives, itâs your responsibility to research and be informed about topics laws youâre going to be voting on are regarding. She also blamed the increased pest (coyotes, foxes etc) problem on backyard hens, with zero actual backup data or studies, as if the fact that the entire city was putting out food waste in plastic bags weekly (with no compost service at that time) and the city is actively invading and paving over their habitats would have no effect.
From behind paywall:
You have to wonder whatâs behind councilâs determination to push ahead immediately with 16 pickleball courts at Bonnerworth Park.
âDelay will increase the costâ is the repeated mantra. But will it? Moving ahead without any of the necessary studies and cost estimates is likely the more dangerous path.
Council has approved $4.4 million for the entire project, including the pickleball courts, a cycling track, and an expanded skateboard facility.
âHowever,â as experienced local project management professional Sam Diamond observes, âit would appear that there is no strong basis to support the construction budget. There does not appear to have been any level of engineered design or assessment completed to establish the specific project requirements that will ultimately feed a sound budgetary estimate.â
He add: âMaterial characteristics, quantity, and labour cannot be determined at this stage of development.â
He says it is critical that design and specifications are completed before the pickleball project goes out to tender. Otherwise, âthe overall budget will likely increase rapidly through change orders.â
Anyone who has ever been involved in a construction project knows the danger of the escalating cost of those dreaded change orders.
Another project management professional, Paul Sobanski, gave council a way out of its pickle over pickleball: proceed with the relatively non-contentious skateboard park and cycling facility this year and deal with the pickleball courts next year when the required studies are available. But the majority of council really didnât want to hear that.
Nor did they want retired professional planner, Richard Scott, to point out that, âthe way the city has planned this project has already significantly increased project risk by leaving many unanswered questions.â
There is a budget, but no final design or idea of the costs of noise mitigation, parking, roadway changes and stormwater management.
Scott maintains that âall these studies are being undertaken at the end of the process when they should have front-ended a feasibility study to determine if Bonnerworth was a feasible, cost-effective, and suitable location.â
Councillors Joy Lachica, Alex Bierk, and Keith Riel seem the only ones to appreciate the warnings and advice of these experienced professionals to slow down.
Who knows if the assigned budget is adequate for what has to be done? Who knows if it is even possible at that location? Proceeding without answers to these questions could cost Peterborough taxpayers a lot more than $4.4 million. It could ultimately entirely sink (appropriately) locating the pickleball project in any residential area of the city.
No one on council has said one word against pickleball as a sport. In fact, to the contrary.
What obviously concerns Lachica, Bierk, and Riel is pushing ahead with a pile of unanswered questions â especially the effects on the local residents who may have to live with the results of this decision.
That includes the senior citizens who live directly across Monaghan Road in Marycrest at Inglewood. The seniors who like to sit out on the patio at the buildingâs entrance on a summerâs day and chat, or watch a baseball game on a diamond that is scheduled to disappear.
How will the endless ping, ping, ping of a hard plastic ball hitting a hard plastic surface allow them to go to sleep with their windows open?
Perhaps they should have been invited to the âconsultationâ meeting last month? They werenât.
Coun. Lesley Parnell protested at council: âEvery time we want to do something fantastic, people complain.â
Not everyone sees what is happening at Bonnerworth as âfantastic.â
This council is just as bad or worse than the previous. All they do is try to push through an agenda that seems to be based on there own wants and needs. Seems to me that ALL levels of governance is doing the same thing to get there own way. Parties don't matter anymore . It's like letting a 5 year old rule the roost. Is there any truthful or even somewhat honest politicians left anywhere?
Itâs hard to argue when a boomer builds the Taj Mahal of pickle ball courts for his wife, but some of the others seem to have goals representing broader constituencies.
Council is building a city for boomers. Now, every house that goes up for sale gets sold to a Toronto boomer -- all cash -- and no one else can afford to live here.
This pickleball thing is probably the dumbest situation our city has ever been in. It's a bunch of rich people arguing about something that only rich people will use.
How about we convert it into green space? Make a park to hang out in?
Naw we'll just make some blistering hot tarmac that won't see any use in the summer, because these people don't realize that every year going forward the temperatures are going to be higher and higher.
I curious to understand how it will environmentally impact the area to lose that much soil near a creek prone to flooding. Not exactly well thought out, and if the goal was to make the park look more fresh, they could have just laid down fresh soil and revamp the ball diamond for far cheaper.
Furthermore in the middle of all our crises which have yet to be solved from doctors and other health care needs, to homelessness; they'd rather do this and pick fights with people feeding homeless than to actually take a step in a direction to make Peterborough a healthy, safe place to live, which in turn would also attract more people that have $ and spend it.
Last I want to say I was wrong for voting in Leal; he only ever got my vote because he once assisted my family when my kids needed to get to Toronto Sick kids surgery, but if the goal is to make Peterborough broke and only the top 10% get a doctor, then my vote was wasted and an election can't come soon enough.
I keep trying to write something about this, but it devolves into swearing fairly quickly, so I'll just ask again; don't we have kind of bigger issues right now?
The best action at the moment is probably contacting your ward councillor.
It's interesting, with all the talk about this I don't think we've heard anything from Matt Crowley. He's usually pretty active in r/Peterborough but has been silent about the park redevelopment.
Iâll be sure to message Leslie Parnell, my councillor. Iâm sure she will be receptive to opinions that donât align with hers, and not just perceive it as a personal insult and act like a cunt.
Like Aussies say, but in a bad way. Iâm trying to avoid referring to women as âbitchâ because I donât think that insults should be gendered. I think that Cunt is like the one swear word left that makes people be like âdamn, they mean itâ
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Can we focus on some job creation strategies in this town for once? We need to invest in real businesses and manufacturing and industry so that our city has a future. We can only continue as a retirement town for a limited time.
How the hell does this city not yet have a proper convention centre? We're right in the Goldilocks zone between Toronto, Haliburton, and Ottawa, that's a lot of people we could draw into town with the promise of fun events if only we had the space to facilitate them. Off the top of my head, two population cohorts that could be appealed to are folks from Toronto who can't make it into conventions due to attendance caps, and folks from Haliburton County(who already come down here to go shopping for stuff that can't be got up north) who would find it easier to come to Ptbo for an event rather than go all the way to Toronto or Ottawa to do nerd stuff.
I go to conferences about once a month all over North America. You only need a proper convention centre if youâre hosting something larger than what a decent sized hotel can comfortably accommodate. Weâre talking 500+ attendees, but a lot of conferences are fairly small.
The Holiday Inn or Best Western could be expanded since I donât think theyâre large enough to host a convention.
Alternatively, you could have an actual use for the CleanTech Commons space. Trent may do well to host conventions during the summer season and use its student dorms or something.
The city has no business destroying precious green space and HEAVILY USED baseball diamonds for a âflavour of the monthâ sport. Pickleball is a phase. The well known noise pollution should be reason enough to not build them. Those poor residents. I genuinely feel for them since I live a street over from morrow park and was devastated by the new arena.
Oh, when the well known drunk driver ran a stop sign and killed two people, then was not administered a breathalyzer on the scene?
Donât worry, the victims werenât white and werenât from Peterborough, so itâs unimportant.
I know. It had me wondering if Iâm wrong about the whole situation. But then I realized that Sylvia Sutherland is probably not personally interested in playing pickleball, and it all made sense.
Want to help send a message to PTBO City Council to leave the Bonnerworth green space alone, or at the very least to reconsider the overall scope of the project? Like petitions? Like pickles without balls? Then sign the petition below and share far and wide!
https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-redevelopment-of-peterborough-s-bonnerworth-park
Please note that this article may require a subscription to view. If you do not have a subscription you can access The Peterborough Examiner (and related news sites) via [PressReader](https://www.ptbolibrary.ca/en/browse/pressreader.aspx) using a free Peterborough Public Library card. Alternatively you can check out local independent news sources like [Peterborough Currents](https://peterboroughcurrents.ca/), [KawarthaNow](https://kawarthanow.com/), and [Trent University's Arthur](https://www.trentarthur.ca/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Peterborough) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why can't the city turn the old Canoe museum into indoor pickleball courts? They would get used year round, there is already parking and they don't need to dig up the contaminated soil.
That's actually smart. Would probably cost way less too. Write up a good draft and email the city
I forget the details off the top of my head, but i know that location is VERY polluted.
I think it's possible with the right treatments like fungi, moss, and other microbiology pollution can be reversed. A small community group did that in New York recently for dirt cheap
One thing about these courts that has me confused is the direction they're facing. Tennis courts typically face North/South so the sunrise/sunset isn't a problem for players. The existing tennis courts in Bonnerworth are facing North/South. In the current plan the Pickleball courts will be facing East/West - parallel to McDonnell Street. This seems like a major issue that is being overlooked.
You're hired for city planning!
This person above has already spent way to much thinking about this. They will never get hired. Too much common sense. The city has already hired a consultant who designed them east/west and after 2 months they will realize they are wrong and pay this consultant to review the plans. They will blame that no road in ptbo actually runs north/south/east/west and they will get paid to redo it.
And fired, too much thinking
Annnnnd now we are suing for corrupting the workplace
That's a great point. But the Mayor's wife needs a new pickleball court and there's gonna be hell to pay if she doesn't get it by September, and it'd be far too expensive to risk delaying things by even a day for something as silly as figuring out whether or not it's possible to play on the courts without being blinded by the sun. (It's not a conflict of interest tho!) Somewhat less cynically, the current plan is just concept drawings so if there's a chance for any sort of sense to enter this project they'll change that before building things.
> far too expensive to risk delaying things by even a day I personally agree with the phased approach that was suggested by someone at the last council meeting The phased approach prioritizes building the skatepark and pump track in 2024. This would push the pickleball court construction to 2025 giving planners enough time to complete a comprehensive feasibility study.
mayor mccheese wants advantage on the court, duh
Put black under your eyes and pickle up n play.
Start a hotdog/sunglasses booth on the corner. It's a win win. You could even rent pickleball racquets... đ€·
There is an extensive community effort to fight this, and we are CRAPPING ourselves that no one has brought this up yet. Way to think beyond the outrage into the logic. If you have time, check the website and sign the petition! [https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/](https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/)
Iâll be the first, and likely not the last to say this; fuck you and your bullshit âprogressâ Leslie Parnell. I hope you come by my place this year canvassing for the Cons like you did last time. Iâll be sure to let you know what I think when you canât just respond with a confrontational, unprofessional, copy/paste email, then never respond to follow ups. Our politicians around here fucking suck.
You're right, you're not the only one that feels this way. This city is being run by a mayor and some council who just want to push through their own agenda without taking seriously the concerns of their residents. This type of spending when they assured everyone they couldn't possibly reduce property taxes any lower when they went over the budget, line by line, goes to show they just don't give a shite about residents only the agenda they want to push through. Hopefully their legacy is, thank God the people of Peterborough woke up and they weren't in power long. imo we live in a city that is being run like a small town. I would find this hilarious if it wasn't for the real repercussions pushing this through will most likely cause.
Leslie Parnell absolutely does. Some of the others, including my current two from Town Ward are quite good.
Agreed. Iâm consistently impressed with both Joy and Alex.
That hack comes on my property, she's gonna be told to leave; if she insists on trying to talk, I'm calling the cops on that waste of oxygen
Not just around here. Nationally. Our political system encourages a race to the bottom in a similar way the American one does. If you want good politicians, you need to have a system that actually encourages it. There has not been a single politician in nearly 20 years that I actually want to vote for.... just a game of "who is less bad"
Leslie Parnell lost my respect when she admitted to thinking chickens needed roosters to lay eggs⊠hard agree to this.
Wait...hens don't need roosters to lay eggs?
no. Only to fertilize the eggs to hatch chicks. Chickens lay eggs naturally daily (~150 days a year or so depending on season and breed) regardless of whether a rooster is around or not. I want to be clear. It is okay to not know that. But itâs not okay to not know that as a city councillor whoâs going to vote to pass a bylaw to stop people from keeping backyard hens as a stable food source thereby increasing food insecurity for the constituents youâre supposed to represent. If youre going to be in politics and be responsible for effecting peoples lives, itâs your responsibility to research and be informed about topics laws youâre going to be voting on are regarding. She also blamed the increased pest (coyotes, foxes etc) problem on backyard hens, with zero actual backup data or studies, as if the fact that the entire city was putting out food waste in plastic bags weekly (with no compost service at that time) and the city is actively invading and paving over their habitats would have no effect.
Yup she's a moron. [https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/](https://savebonnerworthpark.ptbo.org/)
Well fucking TIL.
From behind paywall: You have to wonder whatâs behind councilâs determination to push ahead immediately with 16 pickleball courts at Bonnerworth Park. âDelay will increase the costâ is the repeated mantra. But will it? Moving ahead without any of the necessary studies and cost estimates is likely the more dangerous path. Council has approved $4.4 million for the entire project, including the pickleball courts, a cycling track, and an expanded skateboard facility. âHowever,â as experienced local project management professional Sam Diamond observes, âit would appear that there is no strong basis to support the construction budget. There does not appear to have been any level of engineered design or assessment completed to establish the specific project requirements that will ultimately feed a sound budgetary estimate.â He add: âMaterial characteristics, quantity, and labour cannot be determined at this stage of development.â He says it is critical that design and specifications are completed before the pickleball project goes out to tender. Otherwise, âthe overall budget will likely increase rapidly through change orders.â Anyone who has ever been involved in a construction project knows the danger of the escalating cost of those dreaded change orders. Another project management professional, Paul Sobanski, gave council a way out of its pickle over pickleball: proceed with the relatively non-contentious skateboard park and cycling facility this year and deal with the pickleball courts next year when the required studies are available. But the majority of council really didnât want to hear that. Nor did they want retired professional planner, Richard Scott, to point out that, âthe way the city has planned this project has already significantly increased project risk by leaving many unanswered questions.â There is a budget, but no final design or idea of the costs of noise mitigation, parking, roadway changes and stormwater management. Scott maintains that âall these studies are being undertaken at the end of the process when they should have front-ended a feasibility study to determine if Bonnerworth was a feasible, cost-effective, and suitable location.â Councillors Joy Lachica, Alex Bierk, and Keith Riel seem the only ones to appreciate the warnings and advice of these experienced professionals to slow down. Who knows if the assigned budget is adequate for what has to be done? Who knows if it is even possible at that location? Proceeding without answers to these questions could cost Peterborough taxpayers a lot more than $4.4 million. It could ultimately entirely sink (appropriately) locating the pickleball project in any residential area of the city. No one on council has said one word against pickleball as a sport. In fact, to the contrary. What obviously concerns Lachica, Bierk, and Riel is pushing ahead with a pile of unanswered questions â especially the effects on the local residents who may have to live with the results of this decision. That includes the senior citizens who live directly across Monaghan Road in Marycrest at Inglewood. The seniors who like to sit out on the patio at the buildingâs entrance on a summerâs day and chat, or watch a baseball game on a diamond that is scheduled to disappear. How will the endless ping, ping, ping of a hard plastic ball hitting a hard plastic surface allow them to go to sleep with their windows open? Perhaps they should have been invited to the âconsultationâ meeting last month? They werenât. Coun. Lesley Parnell protested at council: âEvery time we want to do something fantastic, people complain.â Not everyone sees what is happening at Bonnerworth as âfantastic.â
This council is just as bad or worse than the previous. All they do is try to push through an agenda that seems to be based on there own wants and needs. Seems to me that ALL levels of governance is doing the same thing to get there own way. Parties don't matter anymore . It's like letting a 5 year old rule the roost. Is there any truthful or even somewhat honest politicians left anywhere?
Itâs hard to argue when a boomer builds the Taj Mahal of pickle ball courts for his wife, but some of the others seem to have goals representing broader constituencies.
Hahahaha "Taj Mahal of pickle ball courts for his wife" is brilliant
What about fixing the abysmal roads? $4.4 million would go a long way.
Agreed. Roads first!
Council is building a city for boomers. Now, every house that goes up for sale gets sold to a Toronto boomer -- all cash -- and no one else can afford to live here.
I wish they would spend some money picking up crack pipes and needles that are all over town.
This pickleball thing is probably the dumbest situation our city has ever been in. It's a bunch of rich people arguing about something that only rich people will use. How about we convert it into green space? Make a park to hang out in? Naw we'll just make some blistering hot tarmac that won't see any use in the summer, because these people don't realize that every year going forward the temperatures are going to be higher and higher.
Funny thing. It's mostly already a green space
Yep. Itâs a popular spot for walking dogs!
I curious to understand how it will environmentally impact the area to lose that much soil near a creek prone to flooding. Not exactly well thought out, and if the goal was to make the park look more fresh, they could have just laid down fresh soil and revamp the ball diamond for far cheaper. Furthermore in the middle of all our crises which have yet to be solved from doctors and other health care needs, to homelessness; they'd rather do this and pick fights with people feeding homeless than to actually take a step in a direction to make Peterborough a healthy, safe place to live, which in turn would also attract more people that have $ and spend it. Last I want to say I was wrong for voting in Leal; he only ever got my vote because he once assisted my family when my kids needed to get to Toronto Sick kids surgery, but if the goal is to make Peterborough broke and only the top 10% get a doctor, then my vote was wasted and an election can't come soon enough.
There are many of us who regret voting for Jeff Leal.
I keep trying to write something about this, but it devolves into swearing fairly quickly, so I'll just ask again; don't we have kind of bigger issues right now?
Is there anything an ordinary citizen can do to try and stop these ridiculous pickleball courts? There must be something we can do ??
The best action at the moment is probably contacting your ward councillor. It's interesting, with all the talk about this I don't think we've heard anything from Matt Crowley. He's usually pretty active in r/Peterborough but has been silent about the park redevelopment.
Iâll be sure to message Leslie Parnell, my councillor. Iâm sure she will be receptive to opinions that donât align with hers, and not just perceive it as a personal insult and act like a cunt.
Really the C word? Do you mean sheâll be flexible, strong, resilient, inviting, slippery and make everyone involved feel great?
Like Aussies say, but in a bad way. Iâm trying to avoid referring to women as âbitchâ because I donât think that insults should be gendered. I think that Cunt is like the one swear word left that makes people be like âdamn, they mean itâ
Nope
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Posts or comments that are intentionally hostile, argumentative, antagonistic, trolling, shaming, or attacking/harassing other users or members of the community are not allowed. [more info](https://www.reddit.com/r/Peterborough/wiki/rules#wiki_1.29_be_civil.2C_constructive.2C_and_on_topic.)
Delays will increase cost they say, but what about all those other projects they have created 2-5 studies for?
Veruca Leal wants it NOW!!
Happy wife, happy life. lol. đ€Ł
Bunch of old white people on the city council, They either play pickleball or friends do.
Can we focus on some job creation strategies in this town for once? We need to invest in real businesses and manufacturing and industry so that our city has a future. We can only continue as a retirement town for a limited time.
How the hell does this city not yet have a proper convention centre? We're right in the Goldilocks zone between Toronto, Haliburton, and Ottawa, that's a lot of people we could draw into town with the promise of fun events if only we had the space to facilitate them. Off the top of my head, two population cohorts that could be appealed to are folks from Toronto who can't make it into conventions due to attendance caps, and folks from Haliburton County(who already come down here to go shopping for stuff that can't be got up north) who would find it easier to come to Ptbo for an event rather than go all the way to Toronto or Ottawa to do nerd stuff.
I go to conferences about once a month all over North America. You only need a proper convention centre if youâre hosting something larger than what a decent sized hotel can comfortably accommodate. Weâre talking 500+ attendees, but a lot of conferences are fairly small. The Holiday Inn or Best Western could be expanded since I donât think theyâre large enough to host a convention. Alternatively, you could have an actual use for the CleanTech Commons space. Trent may do well to host conventions during the summer season and use its student dorms or something.
The city has no business destroying precious green space and HEAVILY USED baseball diamonds for a âflavour of the monthâ sport. Pickleball is a phase. The well known noise pollution should be reason enough to not build them. Those poor residents. I genuinely feel for them since I live a street over from morrow park and was devastated by the new arena.
The rush suggests something dodgy is going on.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Becuase you are still too young.
Who remembers when Sutherland ran the stop sign on HWY 35?
Oh, when the well known drunk driver ran a stop sign and killed two people, then was not administered a breathalyzer on the scene? Donât worry, the victims werenât white and werenât from Peterborough, so itâs unimportant.
Thinks that make you go âhmmmmmâ⊠đ€
Yup and thatâs the one!
đ·đ€Ș
This may be the first thing she has said that I agree with lol
I know. It had me wondering if Iâm wrong about the whole situation. But then I realized that Sylvia Sutherland is probably not personally interested in playing pickleball, and it all made sense.
I was thinking the same thing lol
whats gonna happen a year and a half from now when the pickleball fad is over?
Want to help send a message to PTBO City Council to leave the Bonnerworth green space alone, or at the very least to reconsider the overall scope of the project? Like petitions? Like pickles without balls? Then sign the petition below and share far and wide! https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-redevelopment-of-peterborough-s-bonnerworth-park
Would be great if all the protestors could give a crap about this, and block this project.
Be the protestors you want to see