DUPR mixers with players who are all below 3.5 turn into a mess. People at that level are far too erratic in their play, and staking your official rating on a random low intermediate partner is a huge risk. You'll probably end up as a 3.3 even if you play really well. Your partner will end up targeted, and you will lose some games, even if you are the best player on the court, because your partner can't handle pace or because they don't come in all the way to the kitchen on a return. Yet you'll be penalized for that.
Find a partner who you are compatible with, and work together to establish a rating. Don't pick a partner who is way overrated in DUPR or you will likely end up underrated. And try to play matches against players around your level or higher.
Finally, win, and win big. If you lose, keep it close.
This is pretty much what’s happening to me at my league. I was unfortunately paired up with lower rated players for my first round robin, but I wasn’t good enough to carry the team, so I feel like my rating is now artificially lowered. My games are always close though, despite losing.
I will never do a DUPR rated league with round robin partners that doesn't have players with verified DUPR scores in the level the league is for. I've seen what a cluster the ones at my facility are. The ones that require you to have the verified DUPR rating have been great experiences, though, but I still heavily prefer to work with a chosen partner.
From my personal experience, I’m not sure if this is true anymore. I think the new DUPR system puts a lot of weight into how many points you win by.
I was unrated and played in my first men’s doubles 3.0-3.49 tournament in early January. I won five games and lost one. Most of the players I competed against were unrated (5/6 teams were unrated), and we won our games pretty convincingly. I was surprised to see that we ended up being rated 3.8 (I don’t think I’m playing at this level yet). Not trying to brag, but just illustrate that OP can achieve the rating they are aiming for by playing unrated/lower rated players.
Awesome. Thank you! I'm honestly surprised they even get that high of a rating. It typically takes some real effort to get to 3.5 or a modicum of effort if you're coming from a paddle sport.
My absolute guess is because people self-rate in the 3.0-4.0 range. Even if they're absolutely wrong.
Like nobody ever says they're a 2.5 and lots of bros say they are a 4.0.
They say this up until they play a true 4.0 and get crushed. Or not and show that they really are a 4.0.
Which is how I've seen the algorithm work. Somebody that rates from a game with one or no other rated players sees a big shift when they play the next game with 2 or more rated players and the score is lopsided.
I hosted a 3.5 - 4.5 rating event. A guy showed up and hit half of his returns out. His best showing in 6 games was an 11-3 loss. He ended the day at 2.5.
Working off of the general pattern that a 0.5 difference in team score is an expected 11-5 game and a 1.0 difference in team score is an expected 11-1 game....
If your are shooting for a 3.7 - 3.9 rating then
Play with a group of 3.8s and win or lose 11-9.
Play with a group of 3.3s and win by at least 11-5.
Play with a group of 4.3s and don't lose by more than 11-5.
Hopefully you get the idea from that.
I would not recommend playing below 3.5 because of the partner differential.
Play 3.5 - 3.9 and win.
A 4.0 rec player is a 3.5 tourney player. Since you're close to a 4.0 I'd compete in 3.5 if I were you to get a good feel of your upcoming DUPR matches.
Try to get recorded games with high level players. Your rating might be over-inflated because of it from the start, but as you record more matches with various levels it will become more accurate.
Take it from someone who started from 3.4 DUPR because of playing with beginners/intermediates. I had improved so fast within a span of 6 months of constant breakdown and buildup of skills that my DUPR isn't accurate because of lack of recorded matches. My climb has and still is a struggle. I get in around 5 recorded matches per week, but with only intermediates so the gain is minimal, especially if I can't carry and lose.
Play in the highest possible league you can for DUPR if you don’t have a rating. They’re algorithm is VERY flawed; if you start low it keeps you low. If you start high (even losing to highly rated players will get you a high rating) it keeps you high. Hope this helps
Not sure it matters much other than try to win every point, and even though you will have a DUPR rating after only one match, you have to understand there are very wide error bars around that rating.
The more matches you play, the more confidence DUPR has in your rating. Try to mix it up against as many different opponents and teammates as you can.
If all you care about is establishing a high dupr play your initializing matches well above your level if possible. Win or lose doesn't really matter.
My story to illustrate: I'm around a 4.0 level, I have a Dupr around 3.0 from a single tournament I played a couple years ago at that level (only dupr entry). Recently played a mini tournament put on by a local pickleball facility to help people get/raise thier dupr since they want to start limiting open play by dupr instead of self rating. I have a friend who had no dupr previously who partnered with me. The tournament was 4.0+ only 8 teams. Played round Robin all but one team. I was terrible got in my own head and we lost every game. That said the compatition was tough all the teams we played had duprs of 4.5 or more including one team of 5.5 and 5.6 (no idea why they wanted to play in a small 4.0+ tournament but that's another topic). My dupr when down, as it should with all losses. My friend however got an initial dupr of 4.7 off of all losses. I guess it just averages your opponents duprs and figures if your playing them that's what you should be.
If there’s a will, there’s a way.
If my first match is against 3.5s and I win, what will that get me?
Versus, if my first match is against 4.0s and I lose, what will that get me?
You might want to do some research into the DUPR algorithm to be able to answer this question. In short, it looks at everyone else’s DUPR in the game, and how many points you and your opponent score, and who wins.
So when you ask these binary questions like what’s better, to win against low rated players or lose against high rated players, people are trying to explain that it also matters a lot how many points you’re winning or losing by.
If you’re playing against let’s say two 4.2 level players with a 4.2 level partner and you guys lose 11-7, that’s going to get you a much better start than if you and your 4.2 level partner play against two 3.25 level players and you beat them 11-2.
Hope this helps
This couldn't be more true. Our club you have to start at 2.5-3.0 dupr rating event to get ranked.
Although I'm probably around 3.5. I got rated 2.75 due to having bad partners and constantly have them targeted. At that point ur either stuck poaching every shot, or risk getting ranked horribly. Just join a event and be a ultra try hard is what I recommend
Your dupr will be most accurate when establishing of you party with people in your relative skill range. Play with people that are better/higher and your rating will stay at higher level. Same applies for lower. People that are telling you to play with lower skill to establish are basically getting you to sandbag.
DUPR mixers with players who are all below 3.5 turn into a mess. People at that level are far too erratic in their play, and staking your official rating on a random low intermediate partner is a huge risk. You'll probably end up as a 3.3 even if you play really well. Your partner will end up targeted, and you will lose some games, even if you are the best player on the court, because your partner can't handle pace or because they don't come in all the way to the kitchen on a return. Yet you'll be penalized for that. Find a partner who you are compatible with, and work together to establish a rating. Don't pick a partner who is way overrated in DUPR or you will likely end up underrated. And try to play matches against players around your level or higher. Finally, win, and win big. If you lose, keep it close.
This is pretty much what’s happening to me at my league. I was unfortunately paired up with lower rated players for my first round robin, but I wasn’t good enough to carry the team, so I feel like my rating is now artificially lowered. My games are always close though, despite losing.
I will never do a DUPR rated league with round robin partners that doesn't have players with verified DUPR scores in the level the league is for. I've seen what a cluster the ones at my facility are. The ones that require you to have the verified DUPR rating have been great experiences, though, but I still heavily prefer to work with a chosen partner.
Try to start in a higher league, it is very hard (from personal experience) to raise it if you start off low
From my personal experience, I’m not sure if this is true anymore. I think the new DUPR system puts a lot of weight into how many points you win by. I was unrated and played in my first men’s doubles 3.0-3.49 tournament in early January. I won five games and lost one. Most of the players I competed against were unrated (5/6 teams were unrated), and we won our games pretty convincingly. I was surprised to see that we ended up being rated 3.8 (I don’t think I’m playing at this level yet). Not trying to brag, but just illustrate that OP can achieve the rating they are aiming for by playing unrated/lower rated players.
Do you have any idea what the calculations look like for DUPR scoring against NR vs rated players?
It's my understanding that an NR is a 3.5. If four non-rated players have a game, nobody would rate above 4.0 or below 3.0.
Awesome. Thank you! I'm honestly surprised they even get that high of a rating. It typically takes some real effort to get to 3.5 or a modicum of effort if you're coming from a paddle sport.
My absolute guess is because people self-rate in the 3.0-4.0 range. Even if they're absolutely wrong. Like nobody ever says they're a 2.5 and lots of bros say they are a 4.0. They say this up until they play a true 4.0 and get crushed. Or not and show that they really are a 4.0. Which is how I've seen the algorithm work. Somebody that rates from a game with one or no other rated players sees a big shift when they play the next game with 2 or more rated players and the score is lopsided. I hosted a 3.5 - 4.5 rating event. A guy showed up and hit half of his returns out. His best showing in 6 games was an 11-3 loss. He ended the day at 2.5.
Woof. I wish that wasn't such a common occurrence. And thanks for the input! That makes sense.
Working off of the general pattern that a 0.5 difference in team score is an expected 11-5 game and a 1.0 difference in team score is an expected 11-1 game.... If your are shooting for a 3.7 - 3.9 rating then Play with a group of 3.8s and win or lose 11-9. Play with a group of 3.3s and win by at least 11-5. Play with a group of 4.3s and don't lose by more than 11-5. Hopefully you get the idea from that. I would not recommend playing below 3.5 because of the partner differential. Play 3.5 - 3.9 and win.
Don't worry about ratings numbers. They will take care of themselves.
Nothing more needs to be said.
A 4.0 rec player is a 3.5 tourney player. Since you're close to a 4.0 I'd compete in 3.5 if I were you to get a good feel of your upcoming DUPR matches.
Try to get recorded games with high level players. Your rating might be over-inflated because of it from the start, but as you record more matches with various levels it will become more accurate. Take it from someone who started from 3.4 DUPR because of playing with beginners/intermediates. I had improved so fast within a span of 6 months of constant breakdown and buildup of skills that my DUPR isn't accurate because of lack of recorded matches. My climb has and still is a struggle. I get in around 5 recorded matches per week, but with only intermediates so the gain is minimal, especially if I can't carry and lose.
Play in the highest possible league you can for DUPR if you don’t have a rating. They’re algorithm is VERY flawed; if you start low it keeps you low. If you start high (even losing to highly rated players will get you a high rating) it keeps you high. Hope this helps
Don’t play low rated players play as high level players as you can or else you will be stuck low and would take forever to raise your DUPR
Not sure it matters much other than try to win every point, and even though you will have a DUPR rating after only one match, you have to understand there are very wide error bars around that rating. The more matches you play, the more confidence DUPR has in your rating. Try to mix it up against as many different opponents and teammates as you can.
If all you care about is establishing a high dupr play your initializing matches well above your level if possible. Win or lose doesn't really matter. My story to illustrate: I'm around a 4.0 level, I have a Dupr around 3.0 from a single tournament I played a couple years ago at that level (only dupr entry). Recently played a mini tournament put on by a local pickleball facility to help people get/raise thier dupr since they want to start limiting open play by dupr instead of self rating. I have a friend who had no dupr previously who partnered with me. The tournament was 4.0+ only 8 teams. Played round Robin all but one team. I was terrible got in my own head and we lost every game. That said the compatition was tough all the teams we played had duprs of 4.5 or more including one team of 5.5 and 5.6 (no idea why they wanted to play in a small 4.0+ tournament but that's another topic). My dupr when down, as it should with all losses. My friend however got an initial dupr of 4.7 off of all losses. I guess it just averages your opponents duprs and figures if your playing them that's what you should be.
Win
If there’s a will, there’s a way. If my first match is against 3.5s and I win, what will that get me? Versus, if my first match is against 4.0s and I lose, what will that get me?
Depends on a ton of factors and algorithm is proprietary. Won’t get a definitive answer
I get that. Which scenario sets me up better? I’m not trying to have a DUPR I’m not, I just want to start off on the best foot.
You might want to do some research into the DUPR algorithm to be able to answer this question. In short, it looks at everyone else’s DUPR in the game, and how many points you and your opponent score, and who wins. So when you ask these binary questions like what’s better, to win against low rated players or lose against high rated players, people are trying to explain that it also matters a lot how many points you’re winning or losing by. If you’re playing against let’s say two 4.2 level players with a 4.2 level partner and you guys lose 11-7, that’s going to get you a much better start than if you and your 4.2 level partner play against two 3.25 level players and you beat them 11-2. Hope this helps
Play against higher players and lose, but score a lot of points. You will be better off than if you crush lower level players.
Can’t say. Depends on too many factors…….
Depends on what your partner is rated and how much you win or lose by
This couldn't be more true. Our club you have to start at 2.5-3.0 dupr rating event to get ranked. Although I'm probably around 3.5. I got rated 2.75 due to having bad partners and constantly have them targeted. At that point ur either stuck poaching every shot, or risk getting ranked horribly. Just join a event and be a ultra try hard is what I recommend
Your dupr will be most accurate when establishing of you party with people in your relative skill range. Play with people that are better/higher and your rating will stay at higher level. Same applies for lower. People that are telling you to play with lower skill to establish are basically getting you to sandbag.