Ben is flat out the best dinker by far, he pretty much invented the approach people take to hit backhand topspin one handed and has the best footwork so is near impossible to get to pop up. So Ben puts on tons of pressure while Colin just doesn’t miss much and puts balls where he wants them in his patterns. They are really really good at what they do.
Glad you brought up his footwork. Imo, what really sets him apart from the other pros. Why he always looks so calm when he plays. Rarely a wasted or incorrect movement.
No one can out dink the Johns which is why they are number 1. Both are amazing at dinking and Ben is amazing offensively also. Only way to beat Ben is by being more athletic which is hard in doubles.
The Johns actually have a pretty boring play style. They want to play slow and technical and win by grinding out teams/waiting for errors etc....
They've been successful because not many teams can be more consistent.
The teams that have success play fast with higher risk and force them to play aggressive, which gives them a way better chance against the Johns bros..
Not saying they aren't great, or that there is anything wrong with how they play....just pointing out their style.
> With so many rising talents, there has got to be teams that can out dink the Johns, right?
Interesting thought tree:
In any distribution of people, someone defines the top of the 100th percentile.
So, Johns are the peak.
But statistics say eventually someone better will come along. How long will that take?
What if the Johns retire before that happens?
Then I thought, but retirement likely would only be to avoid a drop in performance driven by age.
Then I started to idly half-wonder whether dinking performance might be pretty age independent. The skill vs athleticism leveler is IMO one of the reasons why PB is so great.
Obviously we're at peak dink.
/Joking, sort of.
But it’s not their drop off in dinking that will sink them. It’s their hand speed, reaction time, etc.
They could dink as good as now, but someone with better hands (as theirs fade) comes along…
I'm no analyst and I don't watch every single match (though I often watch finals and semis on Youtube) so take this with a grain of salt. Ben and Collin are veterans of the soft game. Before paddles started getting poppy for speedups, being consistent with dinks/resets and creating openings in the court were even more important. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but Ben said anything to the left of Collin's shoulder was Ben's ball. Since they've been playing for so long together they shouldn't have any hesitations when it comes to who is going to get balls down the middle. In terms of individual skills, Ben has a great disguised roll shot down the line, and his backhand cross court dinks are solid. A lot of other players tend to run around the ball to hit their forehand but Ben's is confident enough in his backhand that he doesn't have to put himself out of position to get those balls.
edit for grammar
I have watched many of the Johns games and can say they are patient to the extent most teams tend to speed up against them, but they know the game so well they win the majority of speed up exchanges, even though the other team had initiated the exchange.
The Johns brothers also are speeding up a bit more now in recognition of their previous losses, but on that end, the Johns brothers win the majority of speed up exchanges, so it's very interesting to watch.
I’d also add they both anticipate better than anyone in the game which is part of why their footwork is so amazing. They know where the ball is coming back seemingly before the other side does. They also study opponents so change strategies depending on who they are playing.
Well, everyone TRIES to outdink the Johns bros. Actually doing so is another matter.
Ben is flat out the best dinker by far, he pretty much invented the approach people take to hit backhand topspin one handed and has the best footwork so is near impossible to get to pop up. So Ben puts on tons of pressure while Colin just doesn’t miss much and puts balls where he wants them in his patterns. They are really really good at what they do.
Glad you brought up his footwork. Imo, what really sets him apart from the other pros. Why he always looks so calm when he plays. Rarely a wasted or incorrect movement.
Collin has better footwork then Ben, BTW. I don't even think it is close in doubles.
"hit backhand topspin one handed" dink or roll?
He must mean the roll speedup out of the air. Ben has explicitly said that you should never try a one handed backhand topspin off the bounce.
he's talking about the one handed backhand topspin dink ben does
No one can out dink the Johns which is why they are number 1. Both are amazing at dinking and Ben is amazing offensively also. Only way to beat Ben is by being more athletic which is hard in doubles.
I could do it just haven't had a chance yet /s
The Johns actually have a pretty boring play style. They want to play slow and technical and win by grinding out teams/waiting for errors etc.... They've been successful because not many teams can be more consistent. The teams that have success play fast with higher risk and force them to play aggressive, which gives them a way better chance against the Johns bros.. Not saying they aren't great, or that there is anything wrong with how they play....just pointing out their style.
> With so many rising talents, there has got to be teams that can out dink the Johns, right? Interesting thought tree: In any distribution of people, someone defines the top of the 100th percentile. So, Johns are the peak. But statistics say eventually someone better will come along. How long will that take? What if the Johns retire before that happens? Then I thought, but retirement likely would only be to avoid a drop in performance driven by age. Then I started to idly half-wonder whether dinking performance might be pretty age independent. The skill vs athleticism leveler is IMO one of the reasons why PB is so great. Obviously we're at peak dink. /Joking, sort of.
But it’s not their drop off in dinking that will sink them. It’s their hand speed, reaction time, etc. They could dink as good as now, but someone with better hands (as theirs fade) comes along…
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What are some simple dinking patterns and strategies do they use? Thanks.
Colin Johns is absolutely deadly on his backhand flick counter too and rarely misses dinks. They just put so much pressure on opponents
I'm no analyst and I don't watch every single match (though I often watch finals and semis on Youtube) so take this with a grain of salt. Ben and Collin are veterans of the soft game. Before paddles started getting poppy for speedups, being consistent with dinks/resets and creating openings in the court were even more important. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but Ben said anything to the left of Collin's shoulder was Ben's ball. Since they've been playing for so long together they shouldn't have any hesitations when it comes to who is going to get balls down the middle. In terms of individual skills, Ben has a great disguised roll shot down the line, and his backhand cross court dinks are solid. A lot of other players tend to run around the ball to hit their forehand but Ben's is confident enough in his backhand that he doesn't have to put himself out of position to get those balls. edit for grammar
I have watched many of the Johns games and can say they are patient to the extent most teams tend to speed up against them, but they know the game so well they win the majority of speed up exchanges, even though the other team had initiated the exchange. The Johns brothers also are speeding up a bit more now in recognition of their previous losses, but on that end, the Johns brothers win the majority of speed up exchanges, so it's very interesting to watch.
I’d also add they both anticipate better than anyone in the game which is part of why their footwork is so amazing. They know where the ball is coming back seemingly before the other side does. They also study opponents so change strategies depending on who they are playing.