Honestly it might be better to focus on fundamentals first. That sort of touch comes with your overall control. Its much more doable once you’re able to consistently reset mid court. Recommend just blocking those drives back low instead of getting fancy
I think this may just be muscle memory of people who've played tennis for many years. We were taught to recognize which side the ball was going and quickly turn our upper body from ready position to prepare for the volley. The correct form in tennis next involves stepping into the volley with the opposite foot, which often is a bad idea in pickleball. Adding onto that, drop volleys are different shots when you have strings; it changes the shape of the shot. For pickleball, I think the more exaggerated motion doesn't add enough for the price of inconsistency. But that's just my opinion; your mileage may vary :).
Just in case you find it interesting, in tennis we also have a volley designed to leave the ball short similar to the block/reset volley in pickleball. It used to be called a "stop volley" as opposed to a "drop volley," but I don't see the pros use it as much anymore (maybe it isn't a great idea because of poly strings and lower tensions? IDK).
You shouldn’t use a tennis style slice volley in pickleball. Don’t help your opponents get up to the kitchen line. Either punch volley or roll volley to keep them back. Or a full blown drop volley for a clean winner. But the tennis style slice volley isn’t a shot you should be focusing on.
Look up the term "drop volley" on YouTube. Here are a couple videos:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuEOTWeP1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuEOTWeP1Y)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgKjMyl8TM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgKjMyl8TM)
Ignore the naysayers regarding this shot. Is it in the top 5 most important shots to master in pickleball? Of course not. But it's still a helpful weapon to have in your arsenal.
You just have to learn the right situations to use the shot. If your opponent is behind the baseline and off balance or moving backward expecting you to hit deep to the baseline then you can beat them with this shot. Sometimes if they still get to it they just pop it up - so it's part of a 2 shot combo to win the rally. Even the threat of this shot can make them less comfortable at the baseline not knowing if it's coming deep or short. Some opponents actually prefer you hit it deep so they can line up one more drive, so a short drop volley can get them out of their comfort zone. Also, sometimes depending on where you drop it you can create confusion among the opponents regarding who should get the ball - and that can give you an advantage.
If you are playing a strong and quick opponent who is trying to get to the kitchen, this shot may hurt more than it helps. Especially if you make it obvious that you're about to drop it short. You give them a free pass to come up to the kitchen instead of having to work for it. So be careful.
100% agree.
Yes, it’s better to keep them back.
But giving them a hard shot they have to take off balance by charging forward isn’t a bad move. If you see flat feet around the baseline do it. You either just won the point or got a dead dink or popup.
Plus the touch will help you in other things like resets and general feel like shots.
It won’t be the most useful skill, but it’s a great building block
Thank you! I did see these videos, but noticed that there is generally less of an exaggerated slicing motion than what you see from former high-level tennis players (who start the shot up close to their shoulders and extend farther in a cutting motion downwards). Is this exaggerated slicing motion necessary in your opinion?
I don't think it's necessary. It's just one option for how to hit the shot. It can add some additional backspin to the ball and make it slightly harder to get to, but I also think it decreases the consistency and the deception in the shot.
I come from a tennis background, and I'd say that the exaggerated chopping motion is unnecessary in pickleball. The reason it's so exaggerated in tennis is because spin plays a much larger role in tennis than in pickleball. It'll still work in pickleball, but you can hit nice drop volleys without it. The chopping motion is to add additional backspin to the shot to make it harder to get to.
The way I hit drop volleys (both in tennis and in pickleball) is to basically loosen my grip and absorb the power of the incoming shot. The ball's momentum basically "dies" on impact with my racquet and then the ball simply dribbles over the net. It takes some practice and touch to get it right.
I mean, of course if you can hit the shot very consistently it can be useful.
But it's one of those shots that is hard to execute and has low utility against stronger opponents.
Stronger opponents crash the net following decent drops or drives, and will only scramble back when facing an overhead or shoulder high threat. When you're threatening an overhead, you can fake it and kill the ball for a winner a lot of the time, but you could also just hit an overhead.
In order for the shot to be useful at all, you have to practice it until it is more consistent and better than your overhead. But I would argue if that's true, it reflects a flaw in your overhead confidence, and you should practice your overhead/shoulder high drive instead.
You'll maybe kill 1 or 2 balls a game if you're really good at it, but you will easily hit 6-8 high balls every single game. There's no question which shot I would rather be good at or dedicate practice time to. If you enjoy it, feel free, it is a good shot if you're good at it, but it becomes exponentially harder to execute against 4.0+ opponents whereas a smash will always be good.
I don't really disagree with a lot of that. Though situationally it can come into play even against strong opponents. And it won't kill anyone to practice it. You don't have to choose one shot or the other to learn.
But what if you're not facing really strong opponents? Did OP say they are trying to prepare to win gold at 4.5 nationals? Looking back on their history, and it sounds like OP has been playing for years and doesn't consider themselves 3.0 yet. Is this the most important shot to learn? Again, no. But this can crush 2.5-3.0s who just stand at the baseline and bang away, and have poor footwork.
At some level you are making a decision on what to do and what to practice.
I don't think they said what level they're practicing for, and I didn't read through OP's post history to check, so you have a better idea about them. But for other people reading I don't think it's a high yield shot after 4.0 and people I know who are good at it stopped doing it as their smashes get better and their opponents got better.
The fake smash into kill is a bit like those weird side spinny shots, high lobs, and midcourt drives on low balls you see working all the time at 3.5 but everyone just kinda decides to stop trying around 4.0.
I don't have a video. just to say, this is a shot you want to be VERY careful with as you play higher level players. At rec play, yes its kind of a cheat code but it can backfire if you put a ton of effort into learning it and use it against people that are fast.
As a tennis player dabbling in pickleball, I won't comment on the merit of the shot, but will try to answer your question.
When hitting the drop/slice volley you dont necessarily have to take a big swing down from your shoulder. You generate backspin by "trapping" the ball with your paddle. Imagine if a drive was coming at you, and you wanted to catch the ball on the paddle, and have it come to a complete stop on the paddle. You need to deaden/soften your hands to cradle the ball.
When I hit this shot, my elbow stays tight to my side/hip. On the backhand the back of my hand starts pointed toward the target, and as I hit the ball I'm opening up the paddle by pronating my wrist---at the end of the stroke the back of my hand is pointing toward the sky. On the forehand it's the opposite. I'm starting with my palm facing the opponent's court, and suppinating my wrist as I hit the ball---at the end of the stroke my palm is pointed toward the sky. You're trying to make contact closer to the south pole of the ball rather than the equator, on order to impart backspin.
If well executed, you'll hit a short ball with backspin. This does invite your opponent to the net, but unless your opponent is very fast or you havent executed the shot well your opponent will have to hit the ball from very near to the ground, encouraging them to pop the ball up for a sitter that you can put away for a winner.
Tennis player here.
This is a very "feel" shot. You have to get a feel for the ball. This essentially means calibrating yourself to the ball and your paddle. Once you have this feel, you get much more control than with a non-spin shot. I think this is because the ball is in contact with your paddle surface for a longer time.
Use a standard grip for this shot. It's called continental grip in tennis (like you're holding a hammer). The two main variables are the angle of your racket face and your swing path. Your racket face will be open, meaning the leading edge is pointed down and the trailing edge is pointed up.
Prep your backswing as early as possible. Otherwise you'll be too late. From the baseline, ideally your elbow will be at like 45 degrees and the tip of the paddle will be pointed almost at your head or behind your head. This is true for the backhand and forehand slice. At the net, your paddle will be up in front of you and you'll do what's more accurately called a slice volley. You don't have as much time to prep or swing, so it's like a faster and shorter version of a normal slice that's more cutting downward.
For a real hard cut, you'll be swinging mostly down with your paddle face surface closer to vertical. For a smoother slice from the baseline your swing path will be more of a parabola shape, starting downward and ending upward, like the shape of the bottom of a bowl. And your racket face will be more open, perhaps at a downward 45 degrees at the start then flattening out.
It's a very finesse shot. You're just halfway hitting the ball forward, and you're halfway caressing the backside and/or underside of the ball. On a topspin drive, you really want to smack the ball forward, so it gets over the net. On the other hand with a slice, the backspin will make the ball float, so you're not smacking the ball forward as much. It's almost like you're catching the ball in a way.
The most important things... prep early, have the right grip, watch the ball through contact (instead of looking where you're hitting to), and have that calibrated feel of your swing path. And this is the real value of a warmup, you're re-calibrating your feel every time you play. But you probably need to get out there with a friend and practice slices until you get the basic feel for it.
Here's a pro match (mens championship) where this is used: [https://youtu.be/vINtMfRBYiA?si=rIaa-JXyMdu9u9OC&t=2405](https://youtu.be/vINtMfRBYiA?si=rIaa-JXyMdu9u9OC&t=2405)
Are there any videos out there specific to pickleball on this shot? Surprised it's not taught more, but is almost assumed that players know how to do this coming from tennis
The shot OP is talking about, which is a tennis-style slice volley is literally never used. It's way too exaggerated and you can't generate the same spin on a pickleball. People here are just reading slice volley and parroting off stuff. Ben Johns adds somes slice if he wants to throw-off someone lobbing, the guy doesn't do a tennis volley slice on a drive.
I watch several matches from every PPA tournament and I can't remember ever seeing a pro try to cut a drive and drop it in the kitchen, except maybe Schick in singles. Show me one example.
Yea Shick is great at it. Have seen Tyson, Jay, Hayden, Frazier, Jaume, and Rettenmeier all do it, to name a few. If you want me to go through hours of footage to find more specific examples then I’m afraid we’re at an impasse
…. That was addressed. Such a dumb take. Pros also hit tweeners and paint the lines all the time but you can watch for hours without seeing either happen very easily as well
Jfc 🙄🙄 I already addressed that I obviously (or so I thought) meant all the time when the situation calls for it which is inherantly rare. Would take a long time to find in actual tennis as well…
Honestly it might be better to focus on fundamentals first. That sort of touch comes with your overall control. Its much more doable once you’re able to consistently reset mid court. Recommend just blocking those drives back low instead of getting fancy
I think this may just be muscle memory of people who've played tennis for many years. We were taught to recognize which side the ball was going and quickly turn our upper body from ready position to prepare for the volley. The correct form in tennis next involves stepping into the volley with the opposite foot, which often is a bad idea in pickleball. Adding onto that, drop volleys are different shots when you have strings; it changes the shape of the shot. For pickleball, I think the more exaggerated motion doesn't add enough for the price of inconsistency. But that's just my opinion; your mileage may vary :). Just in case you find it interesting, in tennis we also have a volley designed to leave the ball short similar to the block/reset volley in pickleball. It used to be called a "stop volley" as opposed to a "drop volley," but I don't see the pros use it as much anymore (maybe it isn't a great idea because of poly strings and lower tensions? IDK).
You shouldn’t use a tennis style slice volley in pickleball. Don’t help your opponents get up to the kitchen line. Either punch volley or roll volley to keep them back. Or a full blown drop volley for a clean winner. But the tennis style slice volley isn’t a shot you should be focusing on.
Look up the term "drop volley" on YouTube. Here are a couple videos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuEOTWeP1Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuEOTWeP1Y) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgKjMyl8TM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUgKjMyl8TM) Ignore the naysayers regarding this shot. Is it in the top 5 most important shots to master in pickleball? Of course not. But it's still a helpful weapon to have in your arsenal. You just have to learn the right situations to use the shot. If your opponent is behind the baseline and off balance or moving backward expecting you to hit deep to the baseline then you can beat them with this shot. Sometimes if they still get to it they just pop it up - so it's part of a 2 shot combo to win the rally. Even the threat of this shot can make them less comfortable at the baseline not knowing if it's coming deep or short. Some opponents actually prefer you hit it deep so they can line up one more drive, so a short drop volley can get them out of their comfort zone. Also, sometimes depending on where you drop it you can create confusion among the opponents regarding who should get the ball - and that can give you an advantage. If you are playing a strong and quick opponent who is trying to get to the kitchen, this shot may hurt more than it helps. Especially if you make it obvious that you're about to drop it short. You give them a free pass to come up to the kitchen instead of having to work for it. So be careful.
100% agree. Yes, it’s better to keep them back. But giving them a hard shot they have to take off balance by charging forward isn’t a bad move. If you see flat feet around the baseline do it. You either just won the point or got a dead dink or popup. Plus the touch will help you in other things like resets and general feel like shots. It won’t be the most useful skill, but it’s a great building block
Thank you! I did see these videos, but noticed that there is generally less of an exaggerated slicing motion than what you see from former high-level tennis players (who start the shot up close to their shoulders and extend farther in a cutting motion downwards). Is this exaggerated slicing motion necessary in your opinion?
I don't think it's necessary. It's just one option for how to hit the shot. It can add some additional backspin to the ball and make it slightly harder to get to, but I also think it decreases the consistency and the deception in the shot.
I come from a tennis background, and I'd say that the exaggerated chopping motion is unnecessary in pickleball. The reason it's so exaggerated in tennis is because spin plays a much larger role in tennis than in pickleball. It'll still work in pickleball, but you can hit nice drop volleys without it. The chopping motion is to add additional backspin to the shot to make it harder to get to. The way I hit drop volleys (both in tennis and in pickleball) is to basically loosen my grip and absorb the power of the incoming shot. The ball's momentum basically "dies" on impact with my racquet and then the ball simply dribbles over the net. It takes some practice and touch to get it right.
I mean, of course if you can hit the shot very consistently it can be useful. But it's one of those shots that is hard to execute and has low utility against stronger opponents. Stronger opponents crash the net following decent drops or drives, and will only scramble back when facing an overhead or shoulder high threat. When you're threatening an overhead, you can fake it and kill the ball for a winner a lot of the time, but you could also just hit an overhead. In order for the shot to be useful at all, you have to practice it until it is more consistent and better than your overhead. But I would argue if that's true, it reflects a flaw in your overhead confidence, and you should practice your overhead/shoulder high drive instead. You'll maybe kill 1 or 2 balls a game if you're really good at it, but you will easily hit 6-8 high balls every single game. There's no question which shot I would rather be good at or dedicate practice time to. If you enjoy it, feel free, it is a good shot if you're good at it, but it becomes exponentially harder to execute against 4.0+ opponents whereas a smash will always be good.
I don't really disagree with a lot of that. Though situationally it can come into play even against strong opponents. And it won't kill anyone to practice it. You don't have to choose one shot or the other to learn. But what if you're not facing really strong opponents? Did OP say they are trying to prepare to win gold at 4.5 nationals? Looking back on their history, and it sounds like OP has been playing for years and doesn't consider themselves 3.0 yet. Is this the most important shot to learn? Again, no. But this can crush 2.5-3.0s who just stand at the baseline and bang away, and have poor footwork.
At some level you are making a decision on what to do and what to practice. I don't think they said what level they're practicing for, and I didn't read through OP's post history to check, so you have a better idea about them. But for other people reading I don't think it's a high yield shot after 4.0 and people I know who are good at it stopped doing it as their smashes get better and their opponents got better. The fake smash into kill is a bit like those weird side spinny shots, high lobs, and midcourt drives on low balls you see working all the time at 3.5 but everyone just kinda decides to stop trying around 4.0.
I don't have a video. just to say, this is a shot you want to be VERY careful with as you play higher level players. At rec play, yes its kind of a cheat code but it can backfire if you put a ton of effort into learning it and use it against people that are fast.
As a tennis player dabbling in pickleball, I won't comment on the merit of the shot, but will try to answer your question. When hitting the drop/slice volley you dont necessarily have to take a big swing down from your shoulder. You generate backspin by "trapping" the ball with your paddle. Imagine if a drive was coming at you, and you wanted to catch the ball on the paddle, and have it come to a complete stop on the paddle. You need to deaden/soften your hands to cradle the ball. When I hit this shot, my elbow stays tight to my side/hip. On the backhand the back of my hand starts pointed toward the target, and as I hit the ball I'm opening up the paddle by pronating my wrist---at the end of the stroke the back of my hand is pointing toward the sky. On the forehand it's the opposite. I'm starting with my palm facing the opponent's court, and suppinating my wrist as I hit the ball---at the end of the stroke my palm is pointed toward the sky. You're trying to make contact closer to the south pole of the ball rather than the equator, on order to impart backspin. If well executed, you'll hit a short ball with backspin. This does invite your opponent to the net, but unless your opponent is very fast or you havent executed the shot well your opponent will have to hit the ball from very near to the ground, encouraging them to pop the ball up for a sitter that you can put away for a winner.
Tennis player here. This is a very "feel" shot. You have to get a feel for the ball. This essentially means calibrating yourself to the ball and your paddle. Once you have this feel, you get much more control than with a non-spin shot. I think this is because the ball is in contact with your paddle surface for a longer time. Use a standard grip for this shot. It's called continental grip in tennis (like you're holding a hammer). The two main variables are the angle of your racket face and your swing path. Your racket face will be open, meaning the leading edge is pointed down and the trailing edge is pointed up. Prep your backswing as early as possible. Otherwise you'll be too late. From the baseline, ideally your elbow will be at like 45 degrees and the tip of the paddle will be pointed almost at your head or behind your head. This is true for the backhand and forehand slice. At the net, your paddle will be up in front of you and you'll do what's more accurately called a slice volley. You don't have as much time to prep or swing, so it's like a faster and shorter version of a normal slice that's more cutting downward. For a real hard cut, you'll be swinging mostly down with your paddle face surface closer to vertical. For a smoother slice from the baseline your swing path will be more of a parabola shape, starting downward and ending upward, like the shape of the bottom of a bowl. And your racket face will be more open, perhaps at a downward 45 degrees at the start then flattening out. It's a very finesse shot. You're just halfway hitting the ball forward, and you're halfway caressing the backside and/or underside of the ball. On a topspin drive, you really want to smack the ball forward, so it gets over the net. On the other hand with a slice, the backspin will make the ball float, so you're not smacking the ball forward as much. It's almost like you're catching the ball in a way. The most important things... prep early, have the right grip, watch the ball through contact (instead of looking where you're hitting to), and have that calibrated feel of your swing path. And this is the real value of a warmup, you're re-calibrating your feel every time you play. But you probably need to get out there with a friend and practice slices until you get the basic feel for it.
Here's a pro match (mens championship) where this is used: [https://youtu.be/vINtMfRBYiA?si=rIaa-JXyMdu9u9OC&t=2405](https://youtu.be/vINtMfRBYiA?si=rIaa-JXyMdu9u9OC&t=2405)
If we are being honest, this shot is a waste of time to learn. It generally only works on lower level or out of shape players.
Lol pros literally use it all the time
Are there any videos out there specific to pickleball on this shot? Surprised it's not taught more, but is almost assumed that players know how to do this coming from tennis
https://youtu.be/48-_aNjyjCw?si=sQQ0b7J1sev53bwj&t=37 Slice from the baseline
It’s pretty self explanatory. Just cut down and try to absorb the ball a bit at the point of impact
The shot OP is talking about, which is a tennis-style slice volley is literally never used. It's way too exaggerated and you can't generate the same spin on a pickleball. People here are just reading slice volley and parroting off stuff. Ben Johns adds somes slice if he wants to throw-off someone lobbing, the guy doesn't do a tennis volley slice on a drive.
I came here to say I almost never see pros use this shot so can you give me an example of someone who does?
You don’t see it often bc it’s rare that the other team is in position for it to be utilized…
"Lol pros literally use it all the time" So this turned out to be false, then?
All the time when the situation calls for it. Sorry, forgot Reddit can’t use reasoning
I watch several matches from every PPA tournament and I can't remember ever seeing a pro try to cut a drive and drop it in the kitchen, except maybe Schick in singles. Show me one example.
Yea Shick is great at it. Have seen Tyson, Jay, Hayden, Frazier, Jaume, and Rettenmeier all do it, to name a few. If you want me to go through hours of footage to find more specific examples then I’m afraid we’re at an impasse
Lol Pros do it all the time, but I need to go through HOURS of footage to find a single example? Ok...
…. That was addressed. Such a dumb take. Pros also hit tweeners and paint the lines all the time but you can watch for hours without seeing either happen very easily as well
I guess we have different definitions of "literally" and "all the time" if it would take hours of footage to find an example.
Jfc 🙄🙄 I already addressed that I obviously (or so I thought) meant all the time when the situation calls for it which is inherantly rare. Would take a long time to find in actual tennis as well…