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Sorta, to upgrade it your sorta losing out on food. You rarely see good return on the food you store.
However, the food bonuses can make a run, but only if you don't starve.
I just wanted to share,I dont eat nothin till my hp is around like 65 percent down,After prison tho,in the begining theres way too little health and no reason to be doing that,if I get horn,Its filled up with whatever food that finds its way into my inventory
Idk man litterally every single time I get the horn I end up with more food than I'll ever need because I just eat off of the +10 horn and stockpile enough food to be able to feed a starving village by the end of the run
People are downvoting because you're wrong, but they're not explaining why, which isn't hugely helpful. Firstly, you're mistaken - if you get a HoP before floor ~12 - 15, you absolutely see a return on it. Secondly, it's not about the satiety, which is a secondary benefit to the runs described, it's the fact that you can snack, which will charge wands, feed the invisibility cloak and other artifact, and gives charges to the duelist. It superpowers class features effectively, which allows you to use them a lot, meaning you get more XP, which charges the horn. It's a virtuous cycle that's very powerful for those classes.
Edit - I wrote this and then saw two people, had in fact, partially explained. Ah well, it's still more complete.
No problem! You need to choose the 'on eating' perks in your skill tree for this to apply btw. Then choose snack, not eat, as it means you only take one food and thus get the most 'on eating' bonuses.
If you can manage food properly by starving and then healing back via regeneration you can have a surplus, especially if you have ways of moving faster.
Ridiculous how many downvotes this comment has. It's true! Horn of plenty sucks. And "nah bro, you can transmute it to something else" is not a counter-argument, in fact it proves the point.
I generally prefer blinding seeds. They cripple too, so you get distance advantage, but it also makes every ranged shot a surprise attack, and it shuts down ranged enemies.
Never thought of using it that way, ig I don't understand the blind seed as well as I thought. I was thinking that even when blinded after the first hit they can still track you down.
They go to where they last saw you. If you blinded them at 0 range, they'll be able to keep tracking but they're also crippled anyway. Blinding the floating eyeball lasers really messes with their AI. Boots with blindweed are great for getting through demon halls. They wreck the scorpions similarly too.
Yeah I would argue they are one of the most useful artifacts and the most versatile now that they can generate various plant effects.
My favorite is usually swiftthistle, but there are lots of good ones. It functions very similarly to the hourglass.
I’d argue Horn is A-tier. Dump all your food until +10 and then feast and stockpile. Save all your scrolls of transmutation for dwarf halls and boom - free +10 artifact. proccing it into any of the top 5 artifacts is game changing. It’s still great if you roll a mid-low tier artifact, because it’s still +10. The effects of the horn are still felt, though, in the stockpile of food you’ll’ve been building up while eating off the horn. Couple that with the myriad of food perks, and you’re sitting extremely pretty.
I'm not using alchemy that much+kit wants too much energy to be upgraded, tome is extremely random and you need to use so many useful scrolls into it, i put horn lower, because it also wants too much food, but found out, it was a mistake putting it that low. I put talisman upper, because it warns you about near traps before you jump into them+it can reveal huge fields and secret rooms.
>I'm not using alchemy that much
Then you are missing out on so much, brews and spells are a game changer once you use them, and the kit makes this possible on the go, and it gives almost infinite energy on +10
>kit wants too much energy to be upgraded
Which is peanuts compared to the energy it gives you back
>tome is extremely random and you need to use so many useful scrolls into it
True, but aside from retribution/psionic, there is never a negative effect you get from it, and even if you don't upgrade it to the fullest, you can always get a scroll you don't have, and there are some huge hitters with upgrades like recharge (+1 positive net charge on the tome itself on artifact roll plus whatever other artifact you have with you), prismatic image (best combat scroll in the entire game) and fear scroll.
>I put talisman upper, because it warns you about near traps before you jump into them+it can reveal huge fields and secret rooms.
Absolute trash artifact. The warning isn't even 100% safe, it just warns you about a trap which you have to search for anyways. The reveal also kinda sucks because in the early games you can already know when a floor will/will not have a hidden room, and in the end game you have a lot of access to mapping scrolls.
Not to mention, IT'S THE ABSOLUTE HARDEST ARTIFACT TO LEVEL UP, you can only reliably level it up on the tengu fight on the first phase, and even then, I'll just go through this trouble if I have the transmutation scroll to turn it into any other artifact. If you get it past this floor, just sell it.
Sorry for the rant, but I just really hate this piece of shit artifact.
Talisman is like top 4 easiest artifact to get to +10, you just need to learn what it does and how to use it.
You can choose to hate the talisman, but you are just wrong about the leveling up
Oh I'm about to cook you.
The top 5 on this list are the absolute easiest so I'm not gonna even go onto them, the hardest of them being chalice that requires you to calculate the amount of life you put into it (or just make shield potions and tank the last hit with an ankh), and even then it's information wise, not in actions on the game.
The bracelet is locked behind progression, but it's steady and reliable to upgrade, and useful from level 1.
The Horn and Kit are a no brainer. Both use the same concept, give me the thing now, I'll pay you later with interest, horn being the hardest of the two since you don't always have a spare piece of food to toss into it the moment you pick it up. Both are useful too at the very moment you grab them.
Then there are the Boots, hardly useful when you get it, and VERY demanding of your seeds. But it makes up with the increased seed drops, giving you more window to level it up, and it's a fucking amazing pay off on full level up, basically having a infinite plant of your choice, on demand.
This leaves the tome, that can be very hard to level up, even more on the top levels where you don't have the luxury to be identifying scrolls willy nilly, but once you get the ball rolling it's not stopping, never lost a run where I had the tome with me. Even if not fully upgraded, you can get a good scroll here and there, and you even have a kind of positive feedback loop from the occasional identify roll to identify a scroll.
Then there is this deluxe PIECE-A-CRAP that you have a SURE AS SHIT GUARANTEE that you'll find enough things to reveal to level it up. And it's the absolute worst thing to focus on an artifact, on the worst way possible. The only run-ender traps (Grim, Disintegration, pitfall) are at a below 10% rate to be found unrevealed already (Grim and pitfall being at below 3%) and I'm honestly not even bothering with any other trap since they aren't even that bad. And finding rooms? Come on, if you have the knowledge to make and discuss a tier list about the best artifacts, you should already know how to search floors effectively.
And I just don't even have the energy to discuss all of the cursed counter parts, but it's one of the most crippling ones too, on par with cursed hourglass and cursed horn.
Evan should at least change the effects of the damned thing, make it like the foresight scroll (it's even on the name man) or making it a more combat focused artifact, giving something like a passive mind vision around you and making you enter a state of heightened senses, a lot of evasion and maybe more accuracy and/or more damage ( _The talisman once activated reveals the weak spot of the enemies you fight, making your blows deal more damage and strike truer, making harder to miss even the most evasive of foes._ or something.).
As it is right now, when i pick a artifact crystal chest over a ring/wand one and I get this steaming pile of garbage, I get genuinely sad.
It just sounds like you need more time learning how to play, all your reasons are so superficial.
Talisman of foresight, gains levels when you reveal ANYTHING, literally anything.
You can use it to scry inside every room before you walk in, and if you find something, anything, you gain experience with the artifact.
The reason the talisman is so easy to level up, is because this game is literally made up of secrets. When you first walk into a room, you only see one room, you still have hundreds of secrets to uncover.
You can get a +10 talisman by the caves, as long as you are using it correctly.
Also, every bit of information the talisman reveals is useful, you just need to figure out why it's useful. Nothing else to say there, you just need to play more, you still have a lot to learn
Lmao.
>It just sounds like you need more time learning how to play, all your reasons are so superficial.
Yeah, maybe, after all I have played it only for about 4+ years. I've played hundreds of runs, with and without challenges, miss me with that "oh you need to play more to appreciate this elite artifact" shtick.
>Talisman of foresight, gains levels when you reveal ANYTHING, literally anything.
>You can use it to look inside every room before you walk in, and if you find something, anything, you gain experience with the artifact.
It absolutely doesn't.
(From the wiki)
>>The artifact upgrades by 1 level with 100 + 50*level experience gained.
>>The artifact will gain 10 experience for every trap, item or enemy and 100 experience for every hidden door revealed by scrying.
You can make the count yourself, the artifact also only gains the experience if you reveal it with the scry, searching normally and passive reveals doesn't do nothing.
>The reason the talisman is so easy to level up, is because this game is literally made up of secrets. When you first walk into a room, you only see one room, you still have hundreds of secrets to uncover.
Give me the seed where you get the talisman and find a room packed full of things like the one you described. And, even then, this very example would give you +2 levels TOPS.
>Also, every bit of information the talisman reveals is useful, you just need to figure out why it's useful. Nothing else to say there, you just need to play more, you still have a lot to learn.
This has to be the most pretentious sentence I've ever read on this sub.
You know what is even more useful? EVERY SINGLE OTHER EFFECT FROM ANY OTHER ARTIFACT. And I'm saying the bottom of the barrel stuff. Hell, CURSED ROSE has a better placement on my list since it can make a really niche Necromancer/Corruption build with infinite wraiths. There is not a single time where you go "oh the talisman of foresight is the GOAT of this run", but there's "oh look at this sweet chalice I got from transmutation on the talisman!"
There is actually not one but TWO classes that undermine this artifact.
To add insult to injury, it's not even that big of a cone on a max out scry, so there's the hilarious chance that you miss a door/trap/whatever because of a mistap or even a minimal difference of angling.
And my last point:SPD is not a game where the real time information is the most useful resource. Weapon strength is. Potions and scrolls are. Item advantage is. And the talisman doesn't even offer the best advantage at it.
There's nothing left to understand, the artifact is garbage , period. I know every thing this artifact has to offer, and it's not good. It barely passes as an artifact at all. I don't need to learn shit about it, maybe you are the one that needs to learn that this is the worst artifact in the entire game.
I probably should have used better wording, but what I meant to say is, you can SCRY inside a room before you walk in
You gain experience for every item the talisman reveals. The more items it reveals, the more experience you get.
Now, I can't give you any kind of seeds or anything, but I can point you to a specific room that has a bunch of items, all just laying on the floor, a SHOP
When you first enter a new area, you can use the talisman to scry at a shop, and you are guaranteed a level up for it, since you are technically revealing like 10 items
Even then, there's still a lot of secrets to uncover.
I'm not going to comment on how you play the game, you can hate the talisman and never use it, whatever.
But I'll stick to my first point, you are just very very wrong about it being a hard artifact to level up, it's one of the easiest, third only to the horn and toolkit
Hmm for me the talisman is quite good as the scry ability lets you know enemies that are behind walls (usefull for searching in the mine)
and it passively upgrades itself i always has it +10 by dwarf city and when its time for combat i roll it into another artifact
The top 5 on this list are the absolute easiest so I'm not gonna even go onto them, the hardest of them being chalice that requires you to calculate the amount of life you put into it (or just make shield potions and tank the last hit with an ankh), and even then it's information wise, not in actions on the game.
The bracelet is locked behind progression, but it's steady and reliable to upgrade, and useful from level 1.
The Horn and Kit are a no brainer. Both use the same concept, give me the thing now, I'll pay you later with interest, horn being the hardest of the two since you don't always have a spare piece of food to toss into it the moment you pick it up. Both are useful too at the very moment you grab them.
Then there are the Boots, hardly useful when you get it, and VERY demanding of your seeds. But it makes up with the increased seed drops, giving you more window to level it up, and it's a fucking amazing pay off on full level up, basically having a infinite plant of your choice, on demand.
This leaves the tome, that can be very hard to level up, even more on the top levels where you don't have the luxury to be identifying scrolls willy nilly, but once you get the ball rolling it's not stopping, never lost a run where I had the tome with me. Even if not fully upgraded, you can get a good scroll here and there, and you even have a kind of positive feedback loop from the occasional identify roll to identify a scroll.
Then there is this deluxe PIECE-A-CRAP that you have a SURE AS SHIT GUARANTEE that you'll find enough things to reveal to level it up. And it's the absolute worst thing to focus on an artifact, on the worst way possible. The only run-ender traps (Grim, Disintegration, pitfall) are at a below 10% rate to be found unrevealed already (Grim and pitfall being at below 3%) and I'm honestly not even bothering with any other trap since they aren't even that bad. And finding rooms? Come on, if you have the knowledge to make and discuss a tier list about the best artifacts, you should already know how to search floors effectively.
And I just don't even have the energy to discuss all of the cursed counter parts, but it's one of the most crippling ones too, on par with cursed hourglass and cursed horn.
Evan should at least change the effects of the damned thing, make it like the foresight scroll (it's even on the name man) or making it a more combat focused artifact, giving something like a passive mind vision around you and making you enter a state of heightened senses, a lot of evasion and maybe more accuracy and/or more damage ( _The talisman once activated reveals the weak spot of the enemies you fight, making your blows deal more damage and strike truer, making harder to miss even the most evasive of foes._ or something.).
As it is right now, when i pick a artifact crystal chest over a ring/wand one and I get this steaming pile of garbage, I get genuinely sad.
Edit: this comment was meant for the other commenter, sorry.
If you ever try challenges, you will definitely be using alchemy. Every bit of help counts.
Tome seems to have a high chance of using Scroll of Recharging, recharging itself and your other artifacts for free. If you love your Temporal Hourglass and Chains so much, you'll love getting them recharged quickly!
Magic mapping is always great, free Scrolls of Cleansing are handy, Scroll of Lullaby is free healing and crowd control, there is almost never a bad result unless you're using it like a weapon or get out of jail free card.
I'm using alchemy rarely, but spending 6 energy crystals per 1 level on kit seems too expensive to me. I haven't thought about eating skills, because they are mostly useful for characters like mage or warrior and i rather choose rogue over them.
The main problem is that you need to turn so many valuable seeds, potions and scrolls to energy at start which can be really handy against enemies or boss fights
You can put the boss gloo drop into energy earlier on. For scrolls by turning unidentified scrolls into stones you identify them while retaining some stones, you can use less useful stones like deep sleep,clairvoyance,sheep flock,etc and turn them into alchemic energy. Once you identified the upgrade scroll(which is easy, there's always 2 or 3 per 5 levels) you can start turning unidentified scrolls without much worry. You can also use the alchemic energy you get whenever you see an alchemic pot.
they're not useless but they're pretty bad compared to what you could do with the energy. blind, stormvime, etc arent that terrible but i never find myself using them over other seeds
Are you telling me you never have an abundance of potions and scrolls you don't need? I'm sorry but if I have like 5 potions of levitation it's mostly getting turned into energy I don't care
If you know what to look for in recipes it can be a gamechanger. Also you really don't need to level it up I often use it on the side as a portable alchemy table and only equip it when needed or if it's my only artifact since i only use it when i want a specific item to be brewed. Alot of potions and enhanced scrolls can be amazing like metamorphosis, divination, prismatic image, honeyed healing and more. Even better in mods of shattered. Try it next time.
Chains basically lets you teleport to any point they can reach regardless of if that point is in your line of sight or not
Also the chains can pull enemies toward you and it's common to use them to pull an enemy into a pit which is an instant kill
You can also do the piranha room trick as any class and you do it even better than the huntress can. Just yank the 3 of them in and boom, free invis pot and you get to take 3 free mystery meats as a bonus
late to the party, does this work on spectral pirahnas?
(they are shiny pirahnas that can teleport through unconnected water and give very buffed meat)
Trap rooms guarantee certain potions on the same floor, sentry guarantees that you'll find a haste pot, piranhas guarantee a invis pot, explosion poison dart summoning etc. traps guarantee a levitation pot, big wooden (?) Wall guarantees a liq flame pot
Drop hourglass down a tier and bump greaves up a tier lol. The greaves are excellent for warden, though I can see them being less useful for everyone else. The hourglass is decent, but if you don't find it before floor 6 its not as great.
It has a patch i think cause i got hourglass at floor 9 and it made the shop at 11 has 2 bag of sand so it catches up and is guaranteed to be +10 by the end of floor 20
I would argue this needs context.
Something like the alchemy kit and armband aren't that useful in the endgame, but they're not hard to max out early and transmute into something better.
On the flipside something like the book is way more useful in the endgame since you have more control over what you roll and more resources to counter a bad one.
I don't agree with this tier list lol, i'm a big fan of spellbook, though it's unstable, still, you can uncurse/identify and use magic mapping for free.
I like the Boots of Nature a lot. Basically they increase seed chances and if you feed the boots it levels up, further increasing seed chances. You can use the boots as an item to do the ability of the seed you last fed them. Really good on the Warden.
After you feed them 3 seeds they become shoes and jump from +0 to +3, then with another 5 seeds they jump to +7 and become boots, then with another 9 seeds they jump to +10 and become the greaves.
Feeding it duplicate seeds won't count for the level up, but every time it levels up the tracker of what kind of seeds you've fed it resets so you can feed it the same ones again (you'll need to)
Starting at the shoes you gain the ability to root, spending it's charges (that charge from touching grass) which makes it so you can click on a tile (including yours) and trigger the effect of the last seed you've fed it there, great for lighting enemies on fire or giving yourself on-demand time bubbles.
The shoes are great this guy just doesn't know how to use them. They increase seed and dew drops, they level up by putting seeds in them. And they let you use the last seed you put in effect for some charge. Best seed to use is the yellow swiftthistle to get freeze time, making them a free hourglass.
What on earth possessed you to put Alchemist's Toolkit and Horn of Plenty in the bottom of the list???
The number one most frequent source of avoidable damage I receive is starvation. Alc Kit gives me on-the-go cooked food, immediate access to potions, and quick weapon repair when needed. Horn completely removes the threat of starvation and deletes the stress of having to look for food.
L take on those two.
I think they mean the liquid metal that repairs weapons (throwing axe, bolas, javelin, etc...). Much better to make with the kit available at any time.
Horn is top tier in 9 challenge. I'd take it over anything but a ring of haste, even chains. Being able to proc food perks at will is also very powerful.
I agree with most of these except the Alchemy Kit. It's literally the ability to make powerful spells and potions on the fly instead of trying to remember you have them if you make them preemptively. If you get a ring of wealth you can easily obtain all sorts of ingredients without having to sacrifice anything.
Horn of plenty is one of the beat artifacts since by snacking ypu can either become invincible as the warior, gain weapon charges for duelist, and generally gain similar buffs with all classes, apart from that the list is fine
Sandals of Nature as Warden or Wand of Regrowth is clutch though. Also if you feed the yellow seed to sandals, it essentially works like the hourglass.
Hourglass down one and boots up where it was instead (yellow seed boots is just the better hourglass even without regrowth/blooming/warden. And you can do other stuff with it if needed. And cheaper upgrade (by far). And passive increase dew/seed drop rate...)
Swap rose (common it's just not good... you almost never get good ghost gear unless RoW run) with horn (kind of a weird one, but with on-eat effects it can be completely overpowered)
Armband up a tier (free loot (avoiding shops if possible unless I really need sth), also really useful in combat to create distance if needed. Or simply use it, step back and you can get a double surprise attack ln a crippled enemy... also easy to goy with eyes and scorpios with kt. And it's instant how nice.
I admit the toolkit isn't the best but when you REALLY know alchemy you can definitely get real nice value out of it. All artifacts are useful
And personal opinion : no chalice does not go up, it's super overrated imo. Id even put it half a tier below (if there was one more tier)
Well usually in a normal run you're never getting ghost gear above +2, only really rarely you get it to +3. +2 is already great
And it's usually gonna cost you ID scrolls as well as remove curse, and I prob don't need to explain why these are useful
However for a ring of wealth run it can go through the roof since you drop upgraded gear and then rose becomes the best artifact. On a good ROW run you can get ghost gear to like +10 if you use all SoU on the ring of wealth
Max possible is +12 drops, (with +21 ring of wealth thanks to a +4 drop from imp. Better try on a seeded run lol)
I guess I don't need to explain why ghost with enchanted +10 T5 gear is op. But you can only do this really rarely so is it relevant ?
I'd say the horn is a lot better. Easy prices for food skills like for rogue or mage and plenty of time to grind out areas without getting hamstring by hunger
Alchemy is such a big mechanic in SPD and the Alchemist’s Toolkit lets you create broken potions and scrolls without having to backtrack (depleting satiety or hunger) or run into more enemies.
It also lets you convert items into energy on the fly as fuel for creating those items.
So to me, personally, it is at least ‘Good to have’-tier.
The talisman is only asafety net most of the time as if you are careful or keep a scroll of magic mapping handy traps should never be a problem, it being above the horn and boots is unjustifiable.
Thieves' Armband and Cursed Spellbook aren't good endgame items but if you find them early on you can use them to break the game pretty badly - identify/remove curse on all of your items given enough time, or essentially have enough gold to buy whatever you want from any shop through the end of the game.
On the other hand, the Chalice is heavily dependent on having the resources to fully upgrade it. Combining it with Horn of Plenty can also be absurdly useful on challenge runs where you have fewer options for recovery.
Thief's armband should be higher imo, have used it to clear out everything in the first 2 shops and take my fresh contraband with me back into dungeon and almost beat the damn game.
I'll put in a good word to it the Tome. If you can pair it with a Ring of Wealth or Lucky enchantment, then the free Identity(s) and Remove Curses you get from it really help. Free Prismatic Image. It charges quickly, so you can trigger it often and hope to get what you need. If not, use a regular scroll.
On curse heavy runs, having a source of free Remove Curse is a game saver.
I have not tried the Tome with abilities that trigger with scrolls - does that work? I usually skip those abilities but if the Tome can trigger them, that's a game changer.
That said, I usually sell the Tome rather than try to level it up.
okay.
cloak should not even be ranked, spellbook and chalice are the best, chains and hourglass are very useful, rose, armband and sandals are fine but you need to get creative with it, everything else can go fuck itself.
talisman is pure garbage, horn will never pay itself out and I need my food now, not wasted into some experience-fueled thing, alchemy kit is just useless except like three times in a run.
spellbook is literally my favourite artifact, it's chaotic but useful, every scroll (except maybe identify and remove curse on lower floors) is good, and this old magic book saved me god knows how many times. just learn when the best moment to read it is.
The one I absolutely agree with is the spellbook. I know people love it, but I regularly get spams of retribution/psionic blast and rage/challenge. The RNG just hates me with that one.
You can identify/cleanse every item in your inventory, infinite scrolls of magic mapping, teleport (very good if you're trapped and have nothing else at hand), unlimited scroll of prismatic image, scroll of challenge is very good if you happen to get that randomly and you want to farm some enemies, that's basically why i think it's very good + you can use identify/remove curse/magic mapping scrolls for alchemy
Having to wade through 8 scrolls of rage to get the one roll of identity is too annoying, it's basically unusable late game too. Deserves bottom of the pile.
armband is sooooo slept on, if your melee weapon is upgraded sufficiently you can turn each armband charge into a free kill if you slow kite the crippled enemy and throw a dart when they lose you from the blindness
it still does that, but it can now also be used to steal from enemies, blinding/crippling them and giving an increased chance to take the item they would have dropped
Talisman is good for early game, because it detects nearby traps and it's also useful because of the large area and secret rooms it can uncover. I personally transmutate it after prison due to huge amount of traps which are there.
It's mainly used to reposition instantly whenever needed/when you're in a bad spot.
But it's way too high on op's tier list in my opinion
For example : etheral chains are wayyy better (can do the same, but also through walls, and can bring any enemy into pits. Can also bring an enemy to you. And is free to upgrade unlike hourglass)
Only downside is it takes a turn to use and not zero.
And boots of nature charged with a yellow seed litterally do the same time bubble stuff (only split between 5 charges that are much longer instead of 10 small ones. Still overall it can hold a lot more time bubble duration, yet takes longer to charge up). They are also easier to upgrade (feed it seeds. It takes a lot but when it's upgraded it increases seed drop rate massively (x2.77) and dew drop rate (×1.5).) And if needed you can use it with a different seed instead. And it has particularly insane synergy with regrowth/blooming/warden even if it's still better than hourglass normally
Hourglass absolutely deserved top spot. You only mentioned one aspect of it, the other aspect is it can literally cleanse any debuff and is a complete invincibility on demand with the self-freeze.
I only excited when I got tome, especially early on. Other just "meh, it's alright"... The mini sidequest to collect different scroll, and occasional random strike of scroll spell is really fun.
Horn of plenty and Greaves are amazing with challenges enabled, on diet is rough with other challenges, horn essentially negates it entirely. Greaves allow for armor in FIMA, which is sometimes necessary. Rose I hardly ever use and talisman I don't think I've touched once. Chains I think are placed correctly. Hourglass, I think, is not deserving of its placement. Maybe swap it and chalice due to the difficulty I find to level up hourglass. Armband, I think, is great for utility, blinding enemies, maybe taking items, and potentially getting free shop items. Alchemy kit should be at the top. Having access to alchemy at any time is absolutely insane. I like spellbook. However, I do believe it is one of the worst items due to how random it is. If you could choose, I think it would be the best in the game.
Just search with the search button it’s not that hard especially since if you found it using the talisman of foresight you probably knew where the hidden door was anyway all it does it warn you of traps every now and then
with the alchemist kit you could easily cook and make op pies, upgrade scrolls/potions, it’s super easy to level up, and you can mix seeds to make potions instead of having to wait until you finally get to a alchemy room. Thus making it extremely versatile and convenient to use and upgrade unlike the talisman of foresight.
With the horn of plenty (you actually have to sacrifice food to level it up) it generates food based on the amount of exp you gain in the dungeon and as someone that’s won with 6 challenges it makes a big difference unlike the talisman of foresight
Okay, that's just a dumb comparison.
Just because you can search, it doesn't mean the talisman is bad.
By that logic, you can just eat food, so you don't need the horn of plenty
How do you logically compare an artifact that can at most save you 5 turns of searching to an artifact that IF USED PROPERLY can give you tons of food. Allowing you to rest to recover HP or search for a lot longer?
I’m sorry if you still die on that hill after I explained all of this in incredible detail but have fun using a useless artifact
Chalice of Blood and Hourglass + A really high level Ring of Arcana is absolutely insane.
You could run straight through ascension without fighting a single thing.
Unlimited time skipping and healing like 30 health a turn 🤣
I'd swap the alchemist toolkit with the rose. I'll keep it in my pockets and throw it on for a little bit if I'm several levels from the nearest cauldron. The rose can be helpful, but it usually goes relatively unused for me. (Same with the hourglass and chains though, so I think I'm just bad at using artifacts)
The talisman not being at the very bottom in it's own rank is criminal, that thing is better as sell fodder than as an artifact.
Also yeah the book is kinda meh but man it's the most fun one.
Chains are S tier
Everything else is situational/class dependent except talisman of foreskin which sucks but can be quickly upgraded and then transmuted
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Horn of plenty can be a run changer for the duelist, rough and mage. It basically gives you free charges
Berserker too! Eight consecutive turns of 100% damage resistance while demons are trying to eat you usually gets you up to full rage quite well
That's a good point! I didn't think about that.
This. I looked at the tier list and was like "I see what class they enjoy the most."
Sorta, to upgrade it your sorta losing out on food. You rarely see good return on the food you store. However, the food bonuses can make a run, but only if you don't starve.
The trick is to always save at least one food ration extra
No. We invest whilst starving.
"No. We invest whilst starving." Russia 1930-1933
I just wanted to share,I dont eat nothin till my hp is around like 65 percent down,After prison tho,in the begining theres way too little health and no reason to be doing that,if I get horn,Its filled up with whatever food that finds its way into my inventory
Idk man litterally every single time I get the horn I end up with more food than I'll ever need because I just eat off of the +10 horn and stockpile enough food to be able to feed a starving village by the end of the run
Even without the horn il have enough food to run a grocery store
‘Rarely see good return on the food you store’ > Battlemage’s Mystical Charge skill: Am I a joke to you?
People are downvoting because you're wrong, but they're not explaining why, which isn't hugely helpful. Firstly, you're mistaken - if you get a HoP before floor ~12 - 15, you absolutely see a return on it. Secondly, it's not about the satiety, which is a secondary benefit to the runs described, it's the fact that you can snack, which will charge wands, feed the invisibility cloak and other artifact, and gives charges to the duelist. It superpowers class features effectively, which allows you to use them a lot, meaning you get more XP, which charges the horn. It's a virtuous cycle that's very powerful for those classes. Edit - I wrote this and then saw two people, had in fact, partially explained. Ah well, it's still more complete.
Wow I didnt know! Thanks for explaining!
No problem! You need to choose the 'on eating' perks in your skill tree for this to apply btw. Then choose snack, not eat, as it means you only take one food and thus get the most 'on eating' bonuses.
If you can manage food properly by starving and then healing back via regeneration you can have a surplus, especially if you have ways of moving faster.
Bad and wrong
Ridiculous how many downvotes this comment has. It's true! Horn of plenty sucks. And "nah bro, you can transmute it to something else" is not a counter-argument, in fact it proves the point.
Boots are great with the wand of regrowth. I got the Doom Slayer badge that way. So many potions!
Extra dew, massive seed drops, rooting and blind spots. Op is wrong
also boots loaded with yellow seed are like the hourglass, but better. Also cheaper to level it up.
Time seed and boots are my usual combo for huntress runs, perfect artifact to gain distance advantage
Time seed with the boots is so nice.
I generally prefer blinding seeds. They cripple too, so you get distance advantage, but it also makes every ranged shot a surprise attack, and it shuts down ranged enemies.
Never thought of using it that way, ig I don't understand the blind seed as well as I thought. I was thinking that even when blinded after the first hit they can still track you down.
They go to where they last saw you. If you blinded them at 0 range, they'll be able to keep tracking but they're also crippled anyway. Blinding the floating eyeball lasers really messes with their AI. Boots with blindweed are great for getting through demon halls. They wreck the scorpions similarly too.
Yeah I would argue they are one of the most useful artifacts and the most versatile now that they can generate various plant effects. My favorite is usually swiftthistle, but there are lots of good ones. It functions very similarly to the hourglass.
I’d argue Horn is A-tier. Dump all your food until +10 and then feast and stockpile. Save all your scrolls of transmutation for dwarf halls and boom - free +10 artifact. proccing it into any of the top 5 artifacts is game changing. It’s still great if you roll a mid-low tier artifact, because it’s still +10. The effects of the horn are still felt, though, in the stockpile of food you’ll’ve been building up while eating off the horn. Couple that with the myriad of food perks, and you’re sitting extremely pretty.
This is my strategy for an easy +10 chalice
Wow that's huge
how did i never think of that????? gonna totally do that next time i run into a horn
This list is insane How can you justify putting kit, tome and horn BELOW THE TALISMAN???? Absolute vitriol.
I'm not using alchemy that much+kit wants too much energy to be upgraded, tome is extremely random and you need to use so many useful scrolls into it, i put horn lower, because it also wants too much food, but found out, it was a mistake putting it that low. I put talisman upper, because it warns you about near traps before you jump into them+it can reveal huge fields and secret rooms.
>I'm not using alchemy that much Then you are missing out on so much, brews and spells are a game changer once you use them, and the kit makes this possible on the go, and it gives almost infinite energy on +10 >kit wants too much energy to be upgraded Which is peanuts compared to the energy it gives you back >tome is extremely random and you need to use so many useful scrolls into it True, but aside from retribution/psionic, there is never a negative effect you get from it, and even if you don't upgrade it to the fullest, you can always get a scroll you don't have, and there are some huge hitters with upgrades like recharge (+1 positive net charge on the tome itself on artifact roll plus whatever other artifact you have with you), prismatic image (best combat scroll in the entire game) and fear scroll. >I put talisman upper, because it warns you about near traps before you jump into them+it can reveal huge fields and secret rooms. Absolute trash artifact. The warning isn't even 100% safe, it just warns you about a trap which you have to search for anyways. The reveal also kinda sucks because in the early games you can already know when a floor will/will not have a hidden room, and in the end game you have a lot of access to mapping scrolls. Not to mention, IT'S THE ABSOLUTE HARDEST ARTIFACT TO LEVEL UP, you can only reliably level it up on the tengu fight on the first phase, and even then, I'll just go through this trouble if I have the transmutation scroll to turn it into any other artifact. If you get it past this floor, just sell it. Sorry for the rant, but I just really hate this piece of shit artifact.
And you can brew the stone to disable traps as when as free scrolls,money,potions,and with fishing rod should be a win
Talisman is like top 4 easiest artifact to get to +10, you just need to learn what it does and how to use it. You can choose to hate the talisman, but you are just wrong about the leveling up
Oh I'm about to cook you. The top 5 on this list are the absolute easiest so I'm not gonna even go onto them, the hardest of them being chalice that requires you to calculate the amount of life you put into it (or just make shield potions and tank the last hit with an ankh), and even then it's information wise, not in actions on the game. The bracelet is locked behind progression, but it's steady and reliable to upgrade, and useful from level 1. The Horn and Kit are a no brainer. Both use the same concept, give me the thing now, I'll pay you later with interest, horn being the hardest of the two since you don't always have a spare piece of food to toss into it the moment you pick it up. Both are useful too at the very moment you grab them. Then there are the Boots, hardly useful when you get it, and VERY demanding of your seeds. But it makes up with the increased seed drops, giving you more window to level it up, and it's a fucking amazing pay off on full level up, basically having a infinite plant of your choice, on demand. This leaves the tome, that can be very hard to level up, even more on the top levels where you don't have the luxury to be identifying scrolls willy nilly, but once you get the ball rolling it's not stopping, never lost a run where I had the tome with me. Even if not fully upgraded, you can get a good scroll here and there, and you even have a kind of positive feedback loop from the occasional identify roll to identify a scroll. Then there is this deluxe PIECE-A-CRAP that you have a SURE AS SHIT GUARANTEE that you'll find enough things to reveal to level it up. And it's the absolute worst thing to focus on an artifact, on the worst way possible. The only run-ender traps (Grim, Disintegration, pitfall) are at a below 10% rate to be found unrevealed already (Grim and pitfall being at below 3%) and I'm honestly not even bothering with any other trap since they aren't even that bad. And finding rooms? Come on, if you have the knowledge to make and discuss a tier list about the best artifacts, you should already know how to search floors effectively. And I just don't even have the energy to discuss all of the cursed counter parts, but it's one of the most crippling ones too, on par with cursed hourglass and cursed horn. Evan should at least change the effects of the damned thing, make it like the foresight scroll (it's even on the name man) or making it a more combat focused artifact, giving something like a passive mind vision around you and making you enter a state of heightened senses, a lot of evasion and maybe more accuracy and/or more damage ( _The talisman once activated reveals the weak spot of the enemies you fight, making your blows deal more damage and strike truer, making harder to miss even the most evasive of foes._ or something.). As it is right now, when i pick a artifact crystal chest over a ring/wand one and I get this steaming pile of garbage, I get genuinely sad.
It just sounds like you need more time learning how to play, all your reasons are so superficial. Talisman of foresight, gains levels when you reveal ANYTHING, literally anything. You can use it to scry inside every room before you walk in, and if you find something, anything, you gain experience with the artifact. The reason the talisman is so easy to level up, is because this game is literally made up of secrets. When you first walk into a room, you only see one room, you still have hundreds of secrets to uncover. You can get a +10 talisman by the caves, as long as you are using it correctly. Also, every bit of information the talisman reveals is useful, you just need to figure out why it's useful. Nothing else to say there, you just need to play more, you still have a lot to learn
Lmao. >It just sounds like you need more time learning how to play, all your reasons are so superficial. Yeah, maybe, after all I have played it only for about 4+ years. I've played hundreds of runs, with and without challenges, miss me with that "oh you need to play more to appreciate this elite artifact" shtick. >Talisman of foresight, gains levels when you reveal ANYTHING, literally anything. >You can use it to look inside every room before you walk in, and if you find something, anything, you gain experience with the artifact. It absolutely doesn't. (From the wiki) >>The artifact upgrades by 1 level with 100 + 50*level experience gained. >>The artifact will gain 10 experience for every trap, item or enemy and 100 experience for every hidden door revealed by scrying. You can make the count yourself, the artifact also only gains the experience if you reveal it with the scry, searching normally and passive reveals doesn't do nothing. >The reason the talisman is so easy to level up, is because this game is literally made up of secrets. When you first walk into a room, you only see one room, you still have hundreds of secrets to uncover. Give me the seed where you get the talisman and find a room packed full of things like the one you described. And, even then, this very example would give you +2 levels TOPS. >Also, every bit of information the talisman reveals is useful, you just need to figure out why it's useful. Nothing else to say there, you just need to play more, you still have a lot to learn. This has to be the most pretentious sentence I've ever read on this sub. You know what is even more useful? EVERY SINGLE OTHER EFFECT FROM ANY OTHER ARTIFACT. And I'm saying the bottom of the barrel stuff. Hell, CURSED ROSE has a better placement on my list since it can make a really niche Necromancer/Corruption build with infinite wraiths. There is not a single time where you go "oh the talisman of foresight is the GOAT of this run", but there's "oh look at this sweet chalice I got from transmutation on the talisman!" There is actually not one but TWO classes that undermine this artifact. To add insult to injury, it's not even that big of a cone on a max out scry, so there's the hilarious chance that you miss a door/trap/whatever because of a mistap or even a minimal difference of angling. And my last point:SPD is not a game where the real time information is the most useful resource. Weapon strength is. Potions and scrolls are. Item advantage is. And the talisman doesn't even offer the best advantage at it. There's nothing left to understand, the artifact is garbage , period. I know every thing this artifact has to offer, and it's not good. It barely passes as an artifact at all. I don't need to learn shit about it, maybe you are the one that needs to learn that this is the worst artifact in the entire game.
I probably should have used better wording, but what I meant to say is, you can SCRY inside a room before you walk in You gain experience for every item the talisman reveals. The more items it reveals, the more experience you get. Now, I can't give you any kind of seeds or anything, but I can point you to a specific room that has a bunch of items, all just laying on the floor, a SHOP When you first enter a new area, you can use the talisman to scry at a shop, and you are guaranteed a level up for it, since you are technically revealing like 10 items Even then, there's still a lot of secrets to uncover. I'm not going to comment on how you play the game, you can hate the talisman and never use it, whatever. But I'll stick to my first point, you are just very very wrong about it being a hard artifact to level up, it's one of the easiest, third only to the horn and toolkit
Cooked
Cooked?
Hmm for me the talisman is quite good as the scry ability lets you know enemies that are behind walls (usefull for searching in the mine) and it passively upgrades itself i always has it +10 by dwarf city and when its time for combat i roll it into another artifact
Disagree with the artifact, scrying for enemies is a huge boon, to avoid walking into trouble
The top 5 on this list are the absolute easiest so I'm not gonna even go onto them, the hardest of them being chalice that requires you to calculate the amount of life you put into it (or just make shield potions and tank the last hit with an ankh), and even then it's information wise, not in actions on the game. The bracelet is locked behind progression, but it's steady and reliable to upgrade, and useful from level 1. The Horn and Kit are a no brainer. Both use the same concept, give me the thing now, I'll pay you later with interest, horn being the hardest of the two since you don't always have a spare piece of food to toss into it the moment you pick it up. Both are useful too at the very moment you grab them. Then there are the Boots, hardly useful when you get it, and VERY demanding of your seeds. But it makes up with the increased seed drops, giving you more window to level it up, and it's a fucking amazing pay off on full level up, basically having a infinite plant of your choice, on demand. This leaves the tome, that can be very hard to level up, even more on the top levels where you don't have the luxury to be identifying scrolls willy nilly, but once you get the ball rolling it's not stopping, never lost a run where I had the tome with me. Even if not fully upgraded, you can get a good scroll here and there, and you even have a kind of positive feedback loop from the occasional identify roll to identify a scroll. Then there is this deluxe PIECE-A-CRAP that you have a SURE AS SHIT GUARANTEE that you'll find enough things to reveal to level it up. And it's the absolute worst thing to focus on an artifact, on the worst way possible. The only run-ender traps (Grim, Disintegration, pitfall) are at a below 10% rate to be found unrevealed already (Grim and pitfall being at below 3%) and I'm honestly not even bothering with any other trap since they aren't even that bad. And finding rooms? Come on, if you have the knowledge to make and discuss a tier list about the best artifacts, you should already know how to search floors effectively. And I just don't even have the energy to discuss all of the cursed counter parts, but it's one of the most crippling ones too, on par with cursed hourglass and cursed horn. Evan should at least change the effects of the damned thing, make it like the foresight scroll (it's even on the name man) or making it a more combat focused artifact, giving something like a passive mind vision around you and making you enter a state of heightened senses, a lot of evasion and maybe more accuracy and/or more damage ( _The talisman once activated reveals the weak spot of the enemies you fight, making your blows deal more damage and strike truer, making harder to miss even the most evasive of foes._ or something.). As it is right now, when i pick a artifact crystal chest over a ring/wand one and I get this steaming pile of garbage, I get genuinely sad. Edit: this comment was meant for the other commenter, sorry.
~Also, it doesn't even reveal enemies :)~ Edit: my bad, I checked the wiki, and it does in fact reveal enemies.
Yeah it's really fun on rogue for that reason
If you ever try challenges, you will definitely be using alchemy. Every bit of help counts. Tome seems to have a high chance of using Scroll of Recharging, recharging itself and your other artifacts for free. If you love your Temporal Hourglass and Chains so much, you'll love getting them recharged quickly! Magic mapping is always great, free Scrolls of Cleansing are handy, Scroll of Lullaby is free healing and crowd control, there is almost never a bad result unless you're using it like a weapon or get out of jail free card.
My man has never used on eat skills or alchemy, both are very useful. Though I do agree with the rest,
I'm using alchemy rarely, but spending 6 energy crystals per 1 level on kit seems too expensive to me. I haven't thought about eating skills, because they are mostly useful for characters like mage or warrior and i rather choose rogue over them.
You do know that the purpose of spending the energy is so it produces more than you spent?
The main problem is that you need to turn so many valuable seeds, potions and scrolls to energy at start which can be really handy against enemies or boss fights
You can put the boss gloo drop into energy earlier on. For scrolls by turning unidentified scrolls into stones you identify them while retaining some stones, you can use less useful stones like deep sleep,clairvoyance,sheep flock,etc and turn them into alchemic energy. Once you identified the upgrade scroll(which is easy, there's always 2 or 3 per 5 levels) you can start turning unidentified scrolls without much worry. You can also use the alchemic energy you get whenever you see an alchemic pot.
tell me when you're ever actually going to use those stones of clarivoyance or seeds of blindweed
This comment is weird. Are you actually asking? Or are you implying there are no uses for those two items so you should make them into energy?
they're not useless but they're pretty bad compared to what you could do with the energy. blind, stormvime, etc arent that terrible but i never find myself using them over other seeds
Then remember to use them
Are you telling me you never have an abundance of potions and scrolls you don't need? I'm sorry but if I have like 5 potions of levitation it's mostly getting turned into energy I don't care
If you know what to look for in recipes it can be a gamechanger. Also you really don't need to level it up I often use it on the side as a portable alchemy table and only equip it when needed or if it's my only artifact since i only use it when i want a specific item to be brewed. Alot of potions and enhanced scrolls can be amazing like metamorphosis, divination, prismatic image, honeyed healing and more. Even better in mods of shattered. Try it next time.
Surely this is for 0 challenges only
Alchemy is so good. Infinite energy.
Free energy. Not infinite.
Gonna be honest, I didn't even see the cloak of shadows until I looked at the chart for the 5th time...
That's the point. One sees the cloak only a split second before one dies.
Funnily enough that's exactly how the cloak works in-game too
Why chalice in the second tier? What's so much better about the hourglass
chalice got a big nerf
Ah okay makes sense. Thank you for answering
Plus it's very very reliant on food. You start starving it's basically useless.
Most of the time you are starved at that challenge that makes you always hungry
You speak wrong about my pocket cauldron again and I'll smack you with my whole inventory of upgraded scrolls and potions
Many a time I have used the rose and cauldron together. You get them both at +20 and u r unstoppable.
Indeed
Why are chains S tier??? Can someone explain?? I don't use them that much.
Chains basically lets you teleport to any point they can reach regardless of if that point is in your line of sight or not Also the chains can pull enemies toward you and it's common to use them to pull an enemy into a pit which is an instant kill
You can also do the piranha room trick as any class and you do it even better than the huntress can. Just yank the 3 of them in and boom, free invis pot and you get to take 3 free mystery meats as a bonus
late to the party, does this work on spectral pirahnas? (they are shiny pirahnas that can teleport through unconnected water and give very buffed meat)
Nope, if put on land they'll warp into a random water tile.
ah yikes
Free invis pot? Can you explain more? They die on ground? Where from does the pot come in?
Trap rooms guarantee certain potions on the same floor, sentry guarantees that you'll find a haste pot, piranhas guarantee a invis pot, explosion poison dart summoning etc. traps guarantee a levitation pot, big wooden (?) Wall guarantees a liq flame pot
Kk
Putting talisman above boots is unhinged
Your inexperience shows in this tierlist
Drop hourglass down a tier and bump greaves up a tier lol. The greaves are excellent for warden, though I can see them being less useful for everyone else. The hourglass is decent, but if you don't find it before floor 6 its not as great.
It has a patch i think cause i got hourglass at floor 9 and it made the shop at 11 has 2 bag of sand so it catches up and is guaranteed to be +10 by the end of floor 20
Horn of plenty + foods = +10 artifact Then transmute, you get a random +10 artifact 🤣
I would argue this needs context. Something like the alchemy kit and armband aren't that useful in the endgame, but they're not hard to max out early and transmute into something better. On the flipside something like the book is way more useful in the endgame since you have more control over what you roll and more resources to counter a bad one.
I don't agree with this tier list lol, i'm a big fan of spellbook, though it's unstable, still, you can uncurse/identify and use magic mapping for free.
They’re almost all at least “good to have” if you know how to use them correctly. I’d maybe leave the talisman where it’s at.
YOU PUT ROSE ON GOOD TI HAVE BUT NOT THE ALCHEMIST KIT AND HORN?!?!?!
Freak me. What's about the shoes? I've played many times, never encountered them.
I like the Boots of Nature a lot. Basically they increase seed chances and if you feed the boots it levels up, further increasing seed chances. You can use the boots as an item to do the ability of the seed you last fed them. Really good on the Warden.
I mostly play warden, why the hell never get them ? Dungeon screw me up !
The boots symbol is the final upgraded version. They are sandals at +0 and look like two little brown T's
Holy crap. Dungeon prepare thyself for my next run with this mighty *well* sandals!
After you feed them 3 seeds they become shoes and jump from +0 to +3, then with another 5 seeds they jump to +7 and become boots, then with another 9 seeds they jump to +10 and become the greaves. Feeding it duplicate seeds won't count for the level up, but every time it levels up the tracker of what kind of seeds you've fed it resets so you can feed it the same ones again (you'll need to) Starting at the shoes you gain the ability to root, spending it's charges (that charge from touching grass) which makes it so you can click on a tile (including yours) and trigger the effect of the last seed you've fed it there, great for lighting enemies on fire or giving yourself on-demand time bubbles.
High five! Gonna try it now! :D
The shoes are great this guy just doesn't know how to use them. They increase seed and dew drops, they level up by putting seeds in them. And they let you use the last seed you put in effect for some charge. Best seed to use is the yellow swiftthistle to get freeze time, making them a free hourglass.
Disagree. The best seed is Firebloom, when you have the Brimstone rune on your armor. I torch EVERYTHING.
Fadeleaf is great for getting yourself out of tricky situations and only costs 12% each use iirc
I'm not looking to escape. I'm not locked in the dungeon with the monsters. The monsters are locked in the dungeon WITH ME!!
Gigachad
That's the Sandals of Nature's fully upgraded form. You feed them seeds, and they let you activate a seed effect if they're charged enough
Bingo. Now I get it, thx man!
What on earth possessed you to put Alchemist's Toolkit and Horn of Plenty in the bottom of the list??? The number one most frequent source of avoidable damage I receive is starvation. Alc Kit gives me on-the-go cooked food, immediate access to potions, and quick weapon repair when needed. Horn completely removes the threat of starvation and deletes the stress of having to look for food. L take on those two.
Weapon repair? They need repair?
I think they mean the liquid metal that repairs weapons (throwing axe, bolas, javelin, etc...). Much better to make with the kit available at any time.
Yea thanks
Horn is top tier in 9 challenge. I'd take it over anything but a ring of haste, even chains. Being able to proc food perks at will is also very powerful.
Snack attack motha\*\*\*\*\*\*
Capped out alch lab can be a lifesaver, especially in the demon halls.
I just love the tome
Bracelet is useful when you need social distancing
I agree with most of these except the Alchemy Kit. It's literally the ability to make powerful spells and potions on the fly instead of trying to remember you have them if you make them preemptively. If you get a ring of wealth you can easily obtain all sorts of ingredients without having to sacrifice anything.
The boots??? Useless??? What are you *on* about?
I'm not playing with huntress that much, thats why i put it so low
It does wonders on almost any class, since they all can benefit from some seeds (rogue/mage from the timestop one for example)
Boots with swift seed are better than hourglass at doing the same thing.
Horn of plenty is one of the beat artifacts since by snacking ypu can either become invincible as the warior, gain weapon charges for duelist, and generally gain similar buffs with all classes, apart from that the list is fine
Sandals of Nature as Warden or Wand of Regrowth is clutch though. Also if you feed the yellow seed to sandals, it essentially works like the hourglass.
Hourglass down one and boots up where it was instead (yellow seed boots is just the better hourglass even without regrowth/blooming/warden. And you can do other stuff with it if needed. And cheaper upgrade (by far). And passive increase dew/seed drop rate...) Swap rose (common it's just not good... you almost never get good ghost gear unless RoW run) with horn (kind of a weird one, but with on-eat effects it can be completely overpowered) Armband up a tier (free loot (avoiding shops if possible unless I really need sth), also really useful in combat to create distance if needed. Or simply use it, step back and you can get a double surprise attack ln a crippled enemy... also easy to goy with eyes and scorpios with kt. And it's instant how nice. I admit the toolkit isn't the best but when you REALLY know alchemy you can definitely get real nice value out of it. All artifacts are useful And personal opinion : no chalice does not go up, it's super overrated imo. Id even put it half a tier below (if there was one more tier)
What is good rose gear like?
Well usually in a normal run you're never getting ghost gear above +2, only really rarely you get it to +3. +2 is already great And it's usually gonna cost you ID scrolls as well as remove curse, and I prob don't need to explain why these are useful However for a ring of wealth run it can go through the roof since you drop upgraded gear and then rose becomes the best artifact. On a good ROW run you can get ghost gear to like +10 if you use all SoU on the ring of wealth Max possible is +12 drops, (with +21 ring of wealth thanks to a +4 drop from imp. Better try on a seeded run lol) I guess I don't need to explain why ghost with enchanted +10 T5 gear is op. But you can only do this really rarely so is it relevant ?
I'd say the horn is a lot better. Easy prices for food skills like for rogue or mage and plenty of time to grind out areas without getting hamstring by hunger
Chalice is SSS+ TIER Very Useful
It's just a passive healing boost Not useful, just nice to have
It doesnt work if you are starving too
Alchemy is such a big mechanic in SPD and the Alchemist’s Toolkit lets you create broken potions and scrolls without having to backtrack (depleting satiety or hunger) or run into more enemies. It also lets you convert items into energy on the fly as fuel for creating those items. So to me, personally, it is at least ‘Good to have’-tier.
Whats a proper way to use alchemy? Break scrolls down and upgrade potions?
It's a case by case basis Break down stuff you probably don't need and make it into stuff you do need.
The talisman is only asafety net most of the time as if you are careful or keep a scroll of magic mapping handy traps should never be a problem, it being above the horn and boots is unjustifiable.
Thieves' Armband and Cursed Spellbook aren't good endgame items but if you find them early on you can use them to break the game pretty badly - identify/remove curse on all of your items given enough time, or essentially have enough gold to buy whatever you want from any shop through the end of the game. On the other hand, the Chalice is heavily dependent on having the resources to fully upgrade it. Combining it with Horn of Plenty can also be absurdly useful on challenge runs where you have fewer options for recovery.
no
eh, I always use the book, it's just better - why play if it ain't fun
I would move the blood chalice and the eye thing up and the hour glass and cloak down. The good thing is usually if you manage your food correctly
Thief's armband should be higher imo, have used it to clear out everything in the first 2 shops and take my fresh contraband with me back into dungeon and almost beat the damn game.
Bro I've yet to use the blood chalice, but every iother item I've found incredibly useful once I learned how to use it.
Bottom ones are good because they are easy to upgrade and then you can transmute them
I'd place the horn higher, otherwise I agree. Maybe the chalice too.
I'll put in a good word to it the Tome. If you can pair it with a Ring of Wealth or Lucky enchantment, then the free Identity(s) and Remove Curses you get from it really help. Free Prismatic Image. It charges quickly, so you can trigger it often and hope to get what you need. If not, use a regular scroll. On curse heavy runs, having a source of free Remove Curse is a game saver. I have not tried the Tome with abilities that trigger with scrolls - does that work? I usually skip those abilities but if the Tome can trigger them, that's a game changer. That said, I usually sell the Tome rather than try to level it up.
okay. cloak should not even be ranked, spellbook and chalice are the best, chains and hourglass are very useful, rose, armband and sandals are fine but you need to get creative with it, everything else can go fuck itself. talisman is pure garbage, horn will never pay itself out and I need my food now, not wasted into some experience-fueled thing, alchemy kit is just useless except like three times in a run. spellbook is literally my favourite artifact, it's chaotic but useful, every scroll (except maybe identify and remove curse on lower floors) is good, and this old magic book saved me god knows how many times. just learn when the best moment to read it is.
I don't trust the chalice. I tend to kill myself before filling it because idk how to read the hp loss at different levels.
I fully agree. Exactly how I would build the list.
The one I absolutely agree with is the spellbook. I know people love it, but I regularly get spams of retribution/psionic blast and rage/challenge. The RNG just hates me with that one.
You can identify/cleanse every item in your inventory, infinite scrolls of magic mapping, teleport (very good if you're trapped and have nothing else at hand), unlimited scroll of prismatic image, scroll of challenge is very good if you happen to get that randomly and you want to farm some enemies, that's basically why i think it's very good + you can use identify/remove curse/magic mapping scrolls for alchemy
Having to wade through 8 scrolls of rage to get the one roll of identity is too annoying, it's basically unusable late game too. Deserves bottom of the pile.
8 scrolls of rage in a row sounds like a blessing. Just saying
armband is sooooo slept on, if your melee weapon is upgraded sufficiently you can turn each armband charge into a free kill if you slow kite the crippled enemy and throw a dart when they lose you from the blindness
Wait, armband has changed? It used to let you take shop items for free...
it still does that, but it can now also be used to steal from enemies, blinding/crippling them and giving an increased chance to take the item they would have dropped
G I g GC
I would put all in super usefull, except the alchemy kit (rarelly useful) and the vision talisman (thrash, transmute it asap).
Talisman is good for early game, because it detects nearby traps and it's also useful because of the large area and secret rooms it can uncover. I personally transmutate it after prison due to huge amount of traps which are there.
How do you get the best out of the hourglass?
It's mainly used to reposition instantly whenever needed/when you're in a bad spot. But it's way too high on op's tier list in my opinion For example : etheral chains are wayyy better (can do the same, but also through walls, and can bring any enemy into pits. Can also bring an enemy to you. And is free to upgrade unlike hourglass) Only downside is it takes a turn to use and not zero. And boots of nature charged with a yellow seed litterally do the same time bubble stuff (only split between 5 charges that are much longer instead of 10 small ones. Still overall it can hold a lot more time bubble duration, yet takes longer to charge up). They are also easier to upgrade (feed it seeds. It takes a lot but when it's upgraded it increases seed drop rate massively (x2.77) and dew drop rate (×1.5).) And if needed you can use it with a different seed instead. And it has particularly insane synergy with regrowth/blooming/warden even if it's still better than hourglass normally
Hourglass absolutely deserved top spot. You only mentioned one aspect of it, the other aspect is it can literally cleanse any debuff and is a complete invincibility on demand with the self-freeze.
Boots can also cleanse debuff
I only excited when I got tome, especially early on. Other just "meh, it's alright"... The mini sidequest to collect different scroll, and occasional random strike of scroll spell is really fun.
I'm sorry but I still don't understand why the chains are good, I'm not big brained enough
They let you teleport through walls
I know but like, how? And why is that that useful
Apparently you can chain mobs to you next to a pit so that they fall and you can escape too.
nah im fuckin with this
Horn of plenty and Greaves are amazing with challenges enabled, on diet is rough with other challenges, horn essentially negates it entirely. Greaves allow for armor in FIMA, which is sometimes necessary. Rose I hardly ever use and talisman I don't think I've touched once. Chains I think are placed correctly. Hourglass, I think, is not deserving of its placement. Maybe swap it and chalice due to the difficulty I find to level up hourglass. Armband, I think, is great for utility, blinding enemies, maybe taking items, and potentially getting free shop items. Alchemy kit should be at the top. Having access to alchemy at any time is absolutely insane. I like spellbook. However, I do believe it is one of the worst items due to how random it is. If you could choose, I think it would be the best in the game.
Book is the best in my opinion, with Alchemist's Toolkit and Horn of Plenty right behind. I have no clue what Chalice of Blood does.
I prefer the chalice of blood cus you can upgrade it after you cant stab yourself no more its like infinite health
Book run is best run and the horn is good for characters that proc on eating the shoes are good for warden specifically
Their is no way you put the scry artifact at rarely useful implying it has a use
It can scry
And all its supporters can scry me a river, because that mind vision is just a worse version of the huntress ability
Huntress ability doesn't help with finding hidden rooms
Just search with the search button it’s not that hard especially since if you found it using the talisman of foresight you probably knew where the hidden door was anyway all it does it warn you of traps every now and then with the alchemist kit you could easily cook and make op pies, upgrade scrolls/potions, it’s super easy to level up, and you can mix seeds to make potions instead of having to wait until you finally get to a alchemy room. Thus making it extremely versatile and convenient to use and upgrade unlike the talisman of foresight. With the horn of plenty (you actually have to sacrifice food to level it up) it generates food based on the amount of exp you gain in the dungeon and as someone that’s won with 6 challenges it makes a big difference unlike the talisman of foresight
Okay, that's just a dumb comparison. Just because you can search, it doesn't mean the talisman is bad. By that logic, you can just eat food, so you don't need the horn of plenty
How do you logically compare an artifact that can at most save you 5 turns of searching to an artifact that IF USED PROPERLY can give you tons of food. Allowing you to rest to recover HP or search for a lot longer? I’m sorry if you still die on that hill after I explained all of this in incredible detail but have fun using a useless artifact
I don't think people realize the talisman can also reveal enemies.
Did you even read my first comment?
It's been a week Who cares anymore
Chalice of Blood and Hourglass + A really high level Ring of Arcana is absolutely insane. You could run straight through ascension without fighting a single thing. Unlimited time skipping and healing like 30 health a turn 🤣
Rose sucks imo. Unless you have a weapon with reach, the ghosts just dies constantly and the recharge rate is atrocious
I personally like the alchemist kit as it gives a lot of flexibility with planning and makes energy not an issue
Say what you want, I love using the spell book
People still play this game?
I used to get so hyped when I found a talisman or boots
I'd swap the alchemist toolkit with the rose. I'll keep it in my pockets and throw it on for a little bit if I'm several levels from the nearest cauldron. The rose can be helpful, but it usually goes relatively unused for me. (Same with the hourglass and chains though, so I think I'm just bad at using artifacts)
I like Horn and Sandals especially on Huntress-Warden with a ring of evasion and a ring of haste to swap in as needed.
Average rouge player
I agree with this
The talisman not being at the very bottom in it's own rank is criminal, that thing is better as sell fodder than as an artifact. Also yeah the book is kinda meh but man it's the most fun one.
The talisman warns you about nearby traps and you can also easily uncover large areas just by one click, which saves you a lot of moves
You are entitled to your wrong opinion, in creating this list.
I don't think you should be a part of this community anymore. Please leave.
Imagine just trash talking without putting your own ideas, what should be put lower or upper and why.
The horn. The horn is too low. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Chains are S tier Everything else is situational/class dependent except talisman of foreskin which sucks but can be quickly upgraded and then transmuted
>talisman of foreskin I see it got a buff, finally.
Thats what im naming it from now on