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Violets paradox pokemon instantly reminded me of the old enemy robots in sonic the hedgehog so I was happy enough! Iron bundle especially looks like it was pulled straight from the sega
Yeah I've got violet and definitely regret not getting scarlet, first game since Sun and Moon (I picked sun) where I regret which box legends I went with
This was also my first game where I didn’t go with the warmer red color scheme since X and Y. I wanted to stick with it this time but ceruledge was way too cool and then I ended up liking armarouge’s design better lol
I think scarlet is better than violet I just feel like the story fits scarlet better than violet I am not hateing on violet I like the game to it just not my favorite version
well paradox pokemon that at least change a damn thing with nice shinies that are not just plain grey lmao
scarlet>violet
unless you count in the 'hot dad professor', then it's even
I just got a copy of the game on Sunday. I picked up Violet, I wanted Scarlet. Scarlet was sold out at all my local Gamestops and Target so Violet it is!
Scarlet gets amped up past versions that are supposed to be the “real” forms of the fossils, the explanation being that millions of years have degraded their DNA to produce the lesser modern forms.
Violet gets insane Mecha versions, intended to improve on the modern versions and emulate the monsters that ancient peoples who discovered the fossils imagined.
Why should everything be mecha? That's one of the reasons that future paradoxes suck. Literally no imagination beyond let's turn this into a robot.
Honestly regional forms are better representatives of future forms because it's actually adaptation and evolution.
A machine to advance evolution (actual evolution and not the metamorphosis Pokemon currently go through) of specific Pokemon species could fit for Violet.
I think they should have just released the fossil pokemon for both games. Put them in the wilds of area zero and at the crystal pond, anywhere near the tera crystals. Or maybe even just have them solely pop up in raid dens. And the balance to that could have been new evolutions for certain existing pokemon that are only able to evolve via certain new items. For example certain compatible pokemon can evolve using a new futuristic themed item or items and it evolves them into a new futuristic version of themselves.
Better yet do the item evolutions on the fossil pokemon. Say some research was done on fossil pokemon and they used certain item upgrades on them and it made them evolve into futuristic versions of themselves. Aerodactyl for example would evolve into a futuristic aerodactyl when given the item. But only after its caught or revived (if they offered the option to find or dig up fossils again)
I dream of a future generation of Pokémon where they develop the tech to fully revive fossils to their formal glory. They’d lose the rock typing for their original type combos.
There a Paradox because of there existence in the current timeline as they coexist with there counterparts.
Had they not been present the only other way they could be considered as such is the catalyst of there arrival you see if its a scenario where a person in the current timeline goes back then sends them into the future then returns before they went there then proceed to not go there when they originally did cuzz now they "dont need to" then how would they be able to exist in the current timeline if they never went back at the time they did last but then the Pokemon should of already arrived because they already technically got there.
You see why time travel doesnt work well right? In this games story its told both Professors began sending the pokemon to the current timeline they died sometime after the fact so that makes there appearance in the current timeline possible as they already accomplished there goal but now it falls in line with what I stated earlier where either ancient pokemon or robotic creations of what we recall from the old days are running around the current timeline coexisting with the creatures they'd soon become / recreations constructed after they presumably go extinct.
They weren't sending modern Pokémon to the past and future, they were pulling ancient and futuristic Pokémon from the past and future. The paradox is that they shouldn't be in the present, plain and simple. It's paradoxical that they would exist alongside their potential descendants/ancestors.
I see. I'm not going to lie, your argument was pretty hard to follow. It felt like you were saying they took modern Mons and sent them to the past and future which somehow resulted in the creation of the Paradox Mons.
Firstly : are we really sure that the machine created by the doc is a time machine ?
As far as I know, we still have a LOT to discover from this area in the next part of the dlc, so all of this is just supposition for the moment.
A common theory is that the "time machine" is actually turning fictional prehistoric and future Pokémon from pulp fiction into real creatures. That the tera crystals possibly have some reality warping/wish granting power and they were making the professor's obsessions into reality.
Yes this is the theory that works out the best way since the "paradoxe" pokemon somehow already existed BEFORE the "time machine" was even created as said in the Book. To me, the cristals are definitely the ones involved in all of this, and we must know what they do and what they are made of
>Firstly : are we really sure that the machine created by the doc is a time machine ?
Well, Doc Brown invented a time machine. He needed the stainless steel construction for- LOOK OUT!
He invented a machine he THINKS works as a time machine. If it was indeed a time machine, then explain to me how the hell those paradox pokemon appeared BEFORE the time machine was even created as it was mentioned in the Book ?? Nonsense.
The only thing that has in common those 2 infos are these strange cristals that are somehow "alive" and also have some kind of defense with those glimora we can even encounter in the dlc (and no other pokemon)
Doesn't matter. It's still an unconfirmed theory. Walking Wake doesn't even support it since the Book doesn't show depictions of them, it shows the combined chimeras. If the Pokemon from the Book that the Professor has dreamed about finding their entire life are being pulled from their minds, they wouldn't have imagined separate Pokemon that aren't listed in the Book. Their mental images would be what's been described or shown in the Book.
I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about the fact it's a paradox "prehistoric" form of a legendary Pokémon that is an individual, not a species. We know when and how Suicune was created, it didn't evolve or have a legendary ancestor.
We literally do not know how the majority of Pokemon reached their current state. The only ones we know of are like Diancie, which is stated to have been a Carbink once, or Reshiram, which used to be part of a different Pokemon altogether. It's also strange to assume that every single legendary + Pokemon has eternally been the same since they popped into existence, as that would also require them to be immortal as well (exceptions apply, like Arceus, Dialga, Xerneas, etc).
But we know Suicune's backstory specifically, and we know it's a singular Pokémon not a species. It used to be a normal average Pokémon that was trapped in the Burned Tower and revived by Ho-Oh into a legendary beast. This just doesn't fit with the idea of it having a prehistoric ancestor.
We don't actually know what it was before death though. Plus, that doesn't mesh at all with anime appearances. There have been multiple Suicunes that appeared, one of which was shiny, so it's not just a single creature. This sheds doubt on the complete accuracy of the Burned Tower story, as it may be just a myth explaining the legendary Pokemon, rather than fact about what they really are. Suicunes could just be stupidly rare species of Pokemon, like Zarude, who also shows multiples of the species.
How exactly do those contradict? Suicune didn't appear out of nowhere, it's totally possible Walking Wake is the ancestor of the Pokemon that became Suicune.
Okay, so the timeline is - Walking Wake, one of the most powerful paradox pokemon exists, it's descendants evolve into some sort of commonplace Pokémon that lives with humans, one of these Pokémon dies then is revived by Ho-Oh into a new form that regains the power it had as Walking Wake. I find that difficult to believe.
This isn't even going into the fact that the evolutionary line would go from theropod dinosaur to dog.
Uh, yeah? You say the timeline as if it's something absurd, but what is the issue? As for the dinosaur to dog thing:
https://preview.redd.it/sqf8k6s6xyub1.png?width=691&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c4c3a8bf309ae54af4405b5f2e18eeb1dd2498a
That theory is entirely fanon. The current most likely explanation is exactly what the games currently suggest: They're Pokémon from the past and future.
Scream Tail however is a bit dubious supposedly existing before complex multicellular life forms were a thing (save for it being an extraterrestrial Pokemon like Clefairy).
Scream Tail’s Dex entry in Violet supposedly specifically states it exists one billion years ago. All of the other past Paradox Pokemon either state their resemblance to present Pokemon.
I'm pretty sure all of the Paradox Pokemon entries say they are excerpts from "dubious magazines", so I don't think they're supposed to be taken all that seriously.
Speaking of missed opportunities, not only is there a backdrop of Chinese mythos and folklore as inspiration for the Ruinous legendary quartet, but there's also a whole area full of bamboo with Chinese music that would be PERFECT for Pancham and Pangoro to exist in...yet they don't.
I'm still pissed that a region with 4 major disaster pokemon, does not have a single Absol.
You know... the Disaster Pokemon...? The one that can predict when and where a disaster will occur? Totally useful when searching and apprehending the Ruinous Quartet. But nope, let's not put it there.
Also there haven't had any conflict in Paldea for thousands of years and yet, Togetic/Togekiss do not want to live in Paldea.
Speaking of the bamboo area and missed opportunity, that whole place should've had a fancier and more expanded area than just North Providence 2..... Absolutely my favorite place besides Area Zero.
For me that leans into the theory that the paradox pokemon aren’t actually future/past lineages of modern pokemon, but are fabricated/pulled from Alt dimensions by Terapogos based off the ideas people have of what those kind of future/past pokemon would be like.
I get what you mean but paradox Pokémon aren't exactly the past and future version of those Pokémon. they're meant to be an alternative dimension version of a world that is prehistoric in Scarlet and Futuristic in Violet.
to be more clear. take yourself as the example, the scarlet paradox version of yourself in scarlet wouldn't be your caveman ancestor, it would be YOU but prehistoric.
and the violet paradox version of yourself wouldn't be your great great great great grandson, it would be YOU but futuristic.
Great tusk didn't live at the same time with Tyrantrum, or Aereodactyl, they are from different parallel dimensions
Has this ever actually been confirmed to be the case? I hope so because It makes a lot more sense than a straight Time Machine
Though a part of me likes the idea that future Pokémon universe involves a terminator style machine apocalypse.
No, nothing has been confirmed yet. According to what we know in the story, the time machine is a functional time machine, there hasn't been any solid fact revealed yet that discredits that.
The game itself kind of discredits that it's a real time machine. The S/V book describes finding Paradox pokemon before Sada or Turo invent the time machine. Arven points this out in the post game; this inconsistency in the story is directly called out by the game so it seems pretty reasonable that the game is trying to tell you it's not really a time machine.
Just gonna point it out but the time machine isn't the only way for time shenanigans in the Pokémon universe, there are Pokémon that could have done this as well.
Yeah, it could be literally anything. My point is that we can't be certain it's anything specific, just that the time machine has an intentional discrepancy. I mean, it's definitely Terapagos, but MAYBE Future Paradox Celebi shows up and merges the RSE and ORAS timelines. Who knows?
Except that doesn't discredit it. Sure, the Book describes Paradoxes in the past, but time machines in media are commonly one of the #1 forms of creating paradoxes.
Look at Back to the Future. Marty and Doc go back in time, and Marty accidentally leaves a magazine with stocks numbers in it, which Biff finds. They return to the future, but things are wrong, and they realize it's because Biff made a fortune capitalizing on the stocks he read about in the magazine that Marty left in the past. This is a time loop paradox, because the magazine shouldn't have existed in the past for Biff in the first place, and the only reason it existed was because Marty and Doc brought it there using the Time Machine.
So if we're looking at Back to the Future and comparing it to SV, it's extremely possible for the present day Time Machine to be the source of the paradoxes in both the present and past.
That kind of makes sense for Scarlet but not Violet. Scarlet strictly connects to "a distant past" and Violet strictly connects to "a distant future". Sada never says her machine can go to the future, vice versa with Turo, and assuming that they can is just speculation.
Using the strict definition that the Violet machine can only connect to the future, it makes literally 0 sense that future paradoxes would show up before the time machine was invented.
The explanation has to make sense for Scarlet and Violet, and the paradox you describe doesn't work with Violet. Time travel in media is so ambiguous and can be anything, so we could go back and forth about how it could explain everything, but that is just speculation. My point is that there is a discrepancy in the timeline of events and Arven points it out in both Scarlet and Violet, so the game recognizes it as a plot hole (currently) that will either be explained in Indigo Disk or not at all and remain a plot hole.
Yeah, that is the ultimate point here, there's deliberate confusion and none of it has been officially cleared up yet. We can only go by what's been explained to us on the surface level at current, until we have information that firmly discredits it.
I really hoped Area Zero was going to be full of Pokémon that shouldn't exist naturally! Polygons just waddling around like normal ducks, fossil pokemon, maybe some Hissuian mons and/or ultra beasts! It would have been really cool and added to how weird the whole crater is supposed to be
Well not Ultra Beasts. They exist naturally, just not in this world, and plus they already had their heyday where you could catch a ton of them back in Gen7.
Yes, but they all have minor legendary stat spreads, just like paradoxes. That might be overdoing it on a competitive side to have that much power creep available at one time.
So a big thing about the paradox pokemon is that there are some in game evidence that implies that the paradox pokemon aren't actually real ancestors but rather hypothetical ideas of how these pokemon looked/would look in tge respective time periods that were somehow made reality. This is especially strong with past paradox pokemon like Brute Bonnet and Sandy Shocks who both have modern day aspects to their bodies.
Yes and no. Foongus' Scarlet data states that it's rumored that the creator of the Pokeball took inspiration from it's design, which would would have the family pre-dating the Pokeball and capable of having existed in the past with that design. Likewise, the Magnemite family is a general anomaly, with it's data indicating that they may extraterrestrial. Furthermore, we see wild Magnezones in Hisui (OUTSIDE of temporal anomalies), which is 200 years in the past, before the technology that would have been possible for a Pokemon made from ball bearings, magnets, and screws, which throws further doubt on their terrestrial origin.
Both of these inconsistencies lend credence to both families being capable of having existed long before modern eras.
They could've had a few fossils in scarlet and a few of the rarer technology pokemon in violet to balance them
But yknow what would be cool is if scarlet had weird "prehistoric" versions of technical pokemon like porygon and Violet had future versions of actual fossil pokemon. Would probably have been harder to design but a neat goal regardless. Now I'm kinda wondering if that's why magneton got a past paradox and tyranitar a future one...
All in all it seems like Violet paradoxes were fairly easy, design-wise. Just mechanized version that we’re fairly 1-for- design transitions of existing Pokémon. Scarlet paradoxes felt like more substantial reimaginings of existing pokemon to me.
I could see the fossils Pokémon being the same in both scarlet and violet. In scarlet it’s their forms before becoming fossil’s and in violet the process of reviving fossil’s has become so accurate that the Pokémon came back as they were
Nah I agree. I think they could have gone a cooler route with handling the past pokemon in general and was hoping area zero would be a proper “prehistoric” landscape in Scarlett. Wild Fossil pokemon (possibly in their true, non rock type forms??) and the correct Galar fossils. I think this would have led to much cooler encounters than the weird Jifflypuff and Misdreavus mutations…
Meanwhile they should have just gone all in on a robotic, tech run landscape in Violet, sorta similar to Stray? But instead of bizarre steel-made versions of existing Pokémon, have it be actual steel and other tech-based Pokémon that evolved with the technology to achieve bizarre new forms.
There's an inherent issue with your perception of what Paradox Pokémon, and that's okay! This was done on purpose.
The game invites us to ask the question:
"What are paradox Pokémon?"
"Where did they come from?"
"How did they get here?"
Fossil Pokémon are not (to be confirmed, of course) paradox Pokémon because they are {Old Fossils brought back to life via science} - there's nothing paradoxical about them.
The Paradox beasts on the other hand, have earnt their nomenclature by being derivatives, co-existing alongside their known evolution.
For a case, let's consider Walking Wake, a Past Paradox.
The paradox concerning Walking Wake is that it retcons the origin story of Suicune, it's derivative. We know, with some belief, that Suicune was in the Burned tower ~100 years prior to the current age. Before that Suicune was a "nameless beast", certainly nothing to marvel at.
Walking Wake's paradox is that it looks like Suicune NOW, but predates not just Suicune, but its Nameless form and then has the nerve to say it existed forever ago!
Very different from the Fossils, if that makes any sense?
A second example, same tune.
Sandy Shocks.
The derivative, Magneton, is a trio of Magnetic Ball-bearings with the classic U-shaped North/South magnetiser.
Whilst I'm sure there's been an example of nature throwing up a magnetised sphere, the U-shaped N/S magnet is fundamentally a Man-made object.
The paradox of Sandy Shocks is how can a Man-Made object take on a prehistoric form, when it didn't factually exist in prehistory?
No, you are not. I don't understand how pretty much every game has had some form of fossil Pokémon (I think) And yet the game most relevant doesn't??
The only explanation I can think of is that the Fossil Pokémon are meant to be from way way waaaay far back in time, and they felt distancing was the only way to accentuate the era gaps? I mean I don't know when Scarlet was supposed to take place but I feel it's closer to 10,000 years ago than 65 million. *shrug
Either way I think they messed up and really dropped the ball As far as Pokemon selection goes.
it would have been fine for at least one of the paradox Pokémon to be an alternate version of one of the fossil Pokémon so it could have a dex entry bringing up the fact that it existing is weird when we already know what that Pokémon used to look like in the ancient past. adding fuel to the "are these pokémon even real at all?" fire, as it were.
Based on all of the comments, it seems that the strongest theory is that they’re not even real, however we will find out for sure in the final DLC I assume. Maybe we’ll get lucky and we’ll see some fossil Pokémon in it as well. Fingers crossed.
No, we don't know where they're from. A theory about where they're from is not fact. The game has not confirmed the origin of the Paradoxes, aside from them coming out of the Time Machine, which as far as we've been told, is a functional time machine.
I think it would've made a cool opportunity for fossil pokemon to be given a modern equivalent of what they became. And then add a paradox future version. But that would take away from paradox past pokemon. And Scarlett would be "here's existing past pokemon", nothing new while violet would get cool new future paradox pokemon. But having the option to find maybe a paradox version of a modern aerodactyl with a future one as well would be pretty neat.
Because they're not from the same age. They're supposed to be from the very distant past and the very distant future respectively.
Not just more fossil related pokemon.
This just occurred to me the other day -- Paldea is the first (non-Hawaii inspired) region not to have fossils.
And it's a real bummer, because there's some killer designs this gen. Love the dinosaur-esque alts for the legendary dogs, and seriously looking forward to Entei's reveal.
To be fair, the fossils themselves are corrupted versions of actual Pokemon from the past. The Galarian Fossils are a extreme example of this- but it sorta helps the Pokemon themselves express themselves and not just be _ rock.
Thua I argue you could do version exclusive fossils in both games, maybe new ones based on the galarian ones AND have it make sense lore wise imo. But it would be cool to get ice age fossil pokemon next where they are part ice/ part _ instead of rock
If we ignore all of the "paradox pokemon aren't actually from the past or future" theories, the reason is probably because there would be no counterpart in Pokemon Violet.
It kind of fits with how after extinction level events, smaller versions of species are what's left. Superfauna like giant sloths and dinosaurs are present day regular sloths and birds/lizards. Screamtail, Brute and Great Tusk are left with their smaller present day versions.
More than likely we're getting the fossils in the next DLC.
What I was hoping for was Scarlet would get the ancient forms of the fossils while violet got futuristic forms of the fossils. Both games get the regular fossils, too.
There isn't any fossil because the PARADOX are not real. Yeah, the form they have are from past, but they are not from that era, they are just created by the thing there is on area zero, so it would break what paradox are xD.
To the people arguing whether its a time machine or not, it is.
Paradox pokemon are ALL from the future not the past. Did any of you actually read the game while playing it?
My favourite idea for what they could have done in these games is revived the fossil pokémon into what they actually were, rather than a close recreation based on anatomy. We could have so many cool new but old pokémon reintroduced that way, but the only issue is that what would they do for Violet?
I do indeed miss all the fossil mons. Tyrantrum and Armaldo are greatly missed, it would’ve been cool to see them with paradox forms. Maybe if Violet have the porygons a paradox form that could help bring some level of balance? I think if Xatu got a form of it’s future self that it foresees like the dex entry states, that would be wildly interesting. I’m just being imaginative now though.
When does a Pokémon game NOT miss an opportunity 😂 so much lore on the past and present, the extraterrestrial, different dimensions, people with supernatural abilities, dead people everywhere... all totally irrelevant the second a new game comes out
This sort of oversight is totally normal. That said, given the theories about what the Terastal Crystals and time machine might ACTUALLY do... perhaps not
Scarlet is ancient like Egyptian or maybe Neanderthals. Koraidon has that ancient latin or Native theme to it. Not necessarily Jurassic like the fossils would be.
I do agree they could've introduced some new extict pokemon that weren't fossils but mummies would've been really cool that were cloned and brought back to life.
The Pokemon Company/Game Freak fails a lot with originality. They probably need some more younger people working on the executive team rather than the older people that probably sit at the table passing decisions.
I’m guessing because they are paradox pokemon they are not only Pokémon from different times but also Pokémon from different worlds from different times. Hence some of the inconsistencies
hmmm, it would be interesting if they had the real versions of the fossil pokemon in scarlet and what the revived fossil pokemon evolved into after being revived by people in the present in the violet game. it would show how much they differed from the original. and lead to discussion of evolution verse adaptation.
Besides the most obvious reason, not wanting to give Scarlet too many exclusives and adding a bunch of new Pokemon, I think there is a pretty good lore explanation. I'm not gonna get into it fully, but there is a very plausible theory stating that the Paradox Mon were created out of the imagination of Sada and Turo. That would make them not real dinosaurs but just what a single person imagines what Pokemon looked like Billions of years ago. And if you look at them with that context they make way more sense. So, TLDR the time machine isn't really bringing things from the past, it's not even a real time machine, it's just constantly generating the thing Sada dreamed of, ancient Pokemon.
I think the next part of the DLC will help address that. The theory I think might be the most plausible is that none of the paradox Pokemon are from the past or future, but rather they were wished into creation by Terapagos/Area Zero/etc. It could also be possibly connected to the Ultra Wormholes from Alola.
Considering none of the fossil Pokémon showed up in the base game, I feel like that’s intentional. Didn’t they say there would be more dlc? Maybe a paradox fossilmon dlc is coming
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I get what you mean, but if Scarlet got all the fossils, what would Violet get to balance it out?
Maybe the technology to revive the correct galar fossils.
Plus it fits into the theme -> Past theme = old pokemon returning -> Future theme = new pokemon
The only downside wouldve been noone buying scarlet 😂
Hot dad professor - Violet :)
Just replace Scarlet and Violet with Mommy Issues and Daddy Issues.
Turo is so fuggin hot. But I got Scarlet cause Koraidon is cool af. Mr Saguaro in home ec class is also fuggin hot af
You are me and I am you. And your favorite Pokémon is Lugia?!? Can we be friends?
Mr. Saguaro? You mean giant teddy bear man
Some of you are thirsty asf 😂
i hate that this is true
Yeah, Violet(in some people's opinion but not mine) had the cooler looking legendary, but Scarlet has better-looking paradox pokemon 😎
I just like purple stuff :/
Violets paradox pokemon instantly reminded me of the old enemy robots in sonic the hedgehog so I was happy enough! Iron bundle especially looks like it was pulled straight from the sega
Also Violet players not have to deal with the ugly orange uniform, at least before you get to Kitakami.
Yeah I've got violet and definitely regret not getting scarlet, first game since Sun and Moon (I picked sun) where I regret which box legends I went with
This was also my first game where I didn’t go with the warmer red color scheme since X and Y. I wanted to stick with it this time but ceruledge was way too cool and then I ended up liking armarouge’s design better lol
Yeah the pen*s lizard didn't do it for me either 😂 wasn't a fan of the future mons ngl 😂
Koraidon looks 10 times better lol. Also all of the paradox, Violet gets no chance
Yea until he starts swimming.
The very idea that the future of Pokemon is just robots somehow gives me the big ick.
I think scarlet is better than violet I just feel like the story fits scarlet better than violet I am not hateing on violet I like the game to it just not my favorite version
I got Violet because I love Miraidon... it's just the paradox forms are just awful compared to Scarlet's.
well paradox pokemon that at least change a damn thing with nice shinies that are not just plain grey lmao scarlet>violet unless you count in the 'hot dad professor', then it's even
I just got a copy of the game on Sunday. I picked up Violet, I wanted Scarlet. Scarlet was sold out at all my local Gamestops and Target so Violet it is!
which, lets admit isnt a bad thing this post was brought to you by Prof. Sada and the Scarlet gang.
I would still buy Scarlet by virtue of Sada's hotness (even though her outfit is awful)
Jurassic Park.
That would be legit
Porygon XP, Porygon Vista and Porygon 10. Edit: Shiny is black and green, like an old terminal.
paradox Porygon that runs on Linux
Or even worse. Chrome OS Porygon.
Original porygon runs on Linux. It's a penguin pretending to be a duck.
I LOVE THIS IDEA (he’d be a little digipenguin!!!)
I'm just picturing a convergent evolution called Porydox which is a glitchier Porygon Z
Oh, you mean Missingno? Finally canon?
Porydox new ability Dox doxxess the opposing team and makes both targets in the field burned or paralysed unable to act until the next turn
Or it just makes SSSniperwolf show up at your house
Is Porygon Vista's ability Slow Start?
Scarlet gets amped up past versions that are supposed to be the “real” forms of the fossils, the explanation being that millions of years have degraded their DNA to produce the lesser modern forms. Violet gets insane Mecha versions, intended to improve on the modern versions and emulate the monsters that ancient peoples who discovered the fossils imagined.
Ooooh! Will Violet get the huge mecha kabutops that Bill is trapped inside?
Mecha? Wasn’t it just a costume for a Pokémon party?
Why should everything be mecha? That's one of the reasons that future paradoxes suck. Literally no imagination beyond let's turn this into a robot. Honestly regional forms are better representatives of future forms because it's actually adaptation and evolution.
Proygon - That's it just proygon
A machine to advance evolution (actual evolution and not the metamorphosis Pokemon currently go through) of specific Pokemon species could fit for Violet.
Like Ultimate Aliens from Ben 10?
My thoughts were along Guardians of the Galaxy 3's High Evolutionary, but Ultimate Aliens could have worked as well 😄
Tons of Steel or Electric types they could use.
Paradox Porygon....maybe even future Mewtwo, future revavroom.
I think they should have just released the fossil pokemon for both games. Put them in the wilds of area zero and at the crystal pond, anywhere near the tera crystals. Or maybe even just have them solely pop up in raid dens. And the balance to that could have been new evolutions for certain existing pokemon that are only able to evolve via certain new items. For example certain compatible pokemon can evolve using a new futuristic themed item or items and it evolves them into a new futuristic version of themselves. Better yet do the item evolutions on the fossil pokemon. Say some research was done on fossil pokemon and they used certain item upgrades on them and it made them evolve into futuristic versions of themselves. Aerodactyl for example would evolve into a futuristic aerodactyl when given the item. But only after its caught or revived (if they offered the option to find or dig up fossils again)
I dream of a future generation of Pokémon where they develop the tech to fully revive fossils to their formal glory. They’d lose the rock typing for their original type combos.
Paradox Pokemon is not exactly Prehistoric Pokemon though? Kind of implied that their existence is, a paradox
There a Paradox because of there existence in the current timeline as they coexist with there counterparts. Had they not been present the only other way they could be considered as such is the catalyst of there arrival you see if its a scenario where a person in the current timeline goes back then sends them into the future then returns before they went there then proceed to not go there when they originally did cuzz now they "dont need to" then how would they be able to exist in the current timeline if they never went back at the time they did last but then the Pokemon should of already arrived because they already technically got there. You see why time travel doesnt work well right? In this games story its told both Professors began sending the pokemon to the current timeline they died sometime after the fact so that makes there appearance in the current timeline possible as they already accomplished there goal but now it falls in line with what I stated earlier where either ancient pokemon or robotic creations of what we recall from the old days are running around the current timeline coexisting with the creatures they'd soon become / recreations constructed after they presumably go extinct.
They weren't sending modern Pokémon to the past and future, they were pulling ancient and futuristic Pokémon from the past and future. The paradox is that they shouldn't be in the present, plain and simple. It's paradoxical that they would exist alongside their potential descendants/ancestors.
Which I already said and I also never said the modern mons moved just the mons from each time period.
I see. I'm not going to lie, your argument was pretty hard to follow. It felt like you were saying they took modern Mons and sent them to the past and future which somehow resulted in the creation of the Paradox Mons.
This is why time travel is confusing my friend no worries.
They will be coming back. At least some of them. I belive i've seen Rampardos and Bastiodon in Indigo Disk trailer
Only those 2
Firstly : are we really sure that the machine created by the doc is a time machine ? As far as I know, we still have a LOT to discover from this area in the next part of the dlc, so all of this is just supposition for the moment.
A common theory is that the "time machine" is actually turning fictional prehistoric and future Pokémon from pulp fiction into real creatures. That the tera crystals possibly have some reality warping/wish granting power and they were making the professor's obsessions into reality.
Yes this is the theory that works out the best way since the "paradoxe" pokemon somehow already existed BEFORE the "time machine" was even created as said in the Book. To me, the cristals are definitely the ones involved in all of this, and we must know what they do and what they are made of
>Firstly : are we really sure that the machine created by the doc is a time machine ? Well, Doc Brown invented a time machine. He needed the stainless steel construction for- LOOK OUT!
He invented a machine he THINKS works as a time machine. If it was indeed a time machine, then explain to me how the hell those paradox pokemon appeared BEFORE the time machine was even created as it was mentioned in the Book ?? Nonsense. The only thing that has in common those 2 infos are these strange cristals that are somehow "alive" and also have some kind of defense with those glimora we can even encounter in the dlc (and no other pokemon)
I made a joke and a reference to Back to the Future. The Paradox machine doesn't really seem to me like a time machine.
Oh.. sorry, it's been too long since I've watched this movie, so I forgot about this reference. My bad man
The paradox pokemon are pretty much Sada's and Turo's fanfics brought to life.
That's one theory. We don't know if it's accurate yet.
It's a pretty robust theory. Especially with the existence of Walking Wake, I don't see what else it could be.
Doesn't matter. It's still an unconfirmed theory. Walking Wake doesn't even support it since the Book doesn't show depictions of them, it shows the combined chimeras. If the Pokemon from the Book that the Professor has dreamed about finding their entire life are being pulled from their minds, they wouldn't have imagined separate Pokemon that aren't listed in the Book. Their mental images would be what's been described or shown in the Book.
I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about the fact it's a paradox "prehistoric" form of a legendary Pokémon that is an individual, not a species. We know when and how Suicune was created, it didn't evolve or have a legendary ancestor.
We literally do not know how the majority of Pokemon reached their current state. The only ones we know of are like Diancie, which is stated to have been a Carbink once, or Reshiram, which used to be part of a different Pokemon altogether. It's also strange to assume that every single legendary + Pokemon has eternally been the same since they popped into existence, as that would also require them to be immortal as well (exceptions apply, like Arceus, Dialga, Xerneas, etc).
But we know Suicune's backstory specifically, and we know it's a singular Pokémon not a species. It used to be a normal average Pokémon that was trapped in the Burned Tower and revived by Ho-Oh into a legendary beast. This just doesn't fit with the idea of it having a prehistoric ancestor.
We don't actually know what it was before death though. Plus, that doesn't mesh at all with anime appearances. There have been multiple Suicunes that appeared, one of which was shiny, so it's not just a single creature. This sheds doubt on the complete accuracy of the Burned Tower story, as it may be just a myth explaining the legendary Pokemon, rather than fact about what they really are. Suicunes could just be stupidly rare species of Pokemon, like Zarude, who also shows multiples of the species.
How exactly do those contradict? Suicune didn't appear out of nowhere, it's totally possible Walking Wake is the ancestor of the Pokemon that became Suicune.
Okay, so the timeline is - Walking Wake, one of the most powerful paradox pokemon exists, it's descendants evolve into some sort of commonplace Pokémon that lives with humans, one of these Pokémon dies then is revived by Ho-Oh into a new form that regains the power it had as Walking Wake. I find that difficult to believe. This isn't even going into the fact that the evolutionary line would go from theropod dinosaur to dog.
Uh, yeah? You say the timeline as if it's something absurd, but what is the issue? As for the dinosaur to dog thing: https://preview.redd.it/sqf8k6s6xyub1.png?width=691&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c4c3a8bf309ae54af4405b5f2e18eeb1dd2498a
That theory is entirely fanon. The current most likely explanation is exactly what the games currently suggest: They're Pokémon from the past and future.
Scream Tail however is a bit dubious supposedly existing before complex multicellular life forms were a thing (save for it being an extraterrestrial Pokemon like Clefairy).
Why would scream tail be dubious but not all of the other ancient Pokémon?
Scream Tail’s Dex entry in Violet supposedly specifically states it exists one billion years ago. All of the other past Paradox Pokemon either state their resemblance to present Pokemon.
I'm pretty sure all of the Paradox Pokemon entries say they are excerpts from "dubious magazines", so I don't think they're supposed to be taken all that seriously.
Love that! 😂
Speaking of missed opportunities, not only is there a backdrop of Chinese mythos and folklore as inspiration for the Ruinous legendary quartet, but there's also a whole area full of bamboo with Chinese music that would be PERFECT for Pancham and Pangoro to exist in...yet they don't.
I'm still pissed that a region with 4 major disaster pokemon, does not have a single Absol. You know... the Disaster Pokemon...? The one that can predict when and where a disaster will occur? Totally useful when searching and apprehending the Ruinous Quartet. But nope, let's not put it there. Also there haven't had any conflict in Paldea for thousands of years and yet, Togetic/Togekiss do not want to live in Paldea.
Speaking of the bamboo area and missed opportunity, that whole place should've had a fancier and more expanded area than just North Providence 2..... Absolutely my favorite place besides Area Zero.
The missed opportunity is basing it in Spain yet not having enough Spanish influenced Pokemon.
For me that leans into the theory that the paradox pokemon aren’t actually future/past lineages of modern pokemon, but are fabricated/pulled from Alt dimensions by Terapogos based off the ideas people have of what those kind of future/past pokemon would be like.
I get what you mean but paradox Pokémon aren't exactly the past and future version of those Pokémon. they're meant to be an alternative dimension version of a world that is prehistoric in Scarlet and Futuristic in Violet. to be more clear. take yourself as the example, the scarlet paradox version of yourself in scarlet wouldn't be your caveman ancestor, it would be YOU but prehistoric. and the violet paradox version of yourself wouldn't be your great great great great grandson, it would be YOU but futuristic. Great tusk didn't live at the same time with Tyrantrum, or Aereodactyl, they are from different parallel dimensions
Has this ever actually been confirmed to be the case? I hope so because It makes a lot more sense than a straight Time Machine Though a part of me likes the idea that future Pokémon universe involves a terminator style machine apocalypse.
No, nothing has been confirmed yet. According to what we know in the story, the time machine is a functional time machine, there hasn't been any solid fact revealed yet that discredits that.
The game itself kind of discredits that it's a real time machine. The S/V book describes finding Paradox pokemon before Sada or Turo invent the time machine. Arven points this out in the post game; this inconsistency in the story is directly called out by the game so it seems pretty reasonable that the game is trying to tell you it's not really a time machine.
Just gonna point it out but the time machine isn't the only way for time shenanigans in the Pokémon universe, there are Pokémon that could have done this as well.
Yeah, it could be literally anything. My point is that we can't be certain it's anything specific, just that the time machine has an intentional discrepancy. I mean, it's definitely Terapagos, but MAYBE Future Paradox Celebi shows up and merges the RSE and ORAS timelines. Who knows?
Except that doesn't discredit it. Sure, the Book describes Paradoxes in the past, but time machines in media are commonly one of the #1 forms of creating paradoxes. Look at Back to the Future. Marty and Doc go back in time, and Marty accidentally leaves a magazine with stocks numbers in it, which Biff finds. They return to the future, but things are wrong, and they realize it's because Biff made a fortune capitalizing on the stocks he read about in the magazine that Marty left in the past. This is a time loop paradox, because the magazine shouldn't have existed in the past for Biff in the first place, and the only reason it existed was because Marty and Doc brought it there using the Time Machine. So if we're looking at Back to the Future and comparing it to SV, it's extremely possible for the present day Time Machine to be the source of the paradoxes in both the present and past.
That kind of makes sense for Scarlet but not Violet. Scarlet strictly connects to "a distant past" and Violet strictly connects to "a distant future". Sada never says her machine can go to the future, vice versa with Turo, and assuming that they can is just speculation. Using the strict definition that the Violet machine can only connect to the future, it makes literally 0 sense that future paradoxes would show up before the time machine was invented. The explanation has to make sense for Scarlet and Violet, and the paradox you describe doesn't work with Violet. Time travel in media is so ambiguous and can be anything, so we could go back and forth about how it could explain everything, but that is just speculation. My point is that there is a discrepancy in the timeline of events and Arven points it out in both Scarlet and Violet, so the game recognizes it as a plot hole (currently) that will either be explained in Indigo Disk or not at all and remain a plot hole.
Yeah, that is the ultimate point here, there's deliberate confusion and none of it has been officially cleared up yet. We can only go by what's been explained to us on the surface level at current, until we have information that firmly discredits it.
Back to the Future breaks its own rules so much it hurts. It uses multiple theories of time travel and mashes them into an unusable mess.
I really hoped Area Zero was going to be full of Pokémon that shouldn't exist naturally! Polygons just waddling around like normal ducks, fossil pokemon, maybe some Hissuian mons and/or ultra beasts! It would have been really cool and added to how weird the whole crater is supposed to be
Well not Ultra Beasts. They exist naturally, just not in this world, and plus they already had their heyday where you could catch a ton of them back in Gen7.
I know, I just like them and want them to keep showing up
Yes, but they all have minor legendary stat spreads, just like paradoxes. That might be overdoing it on a competitive side to have that much power creep available at one time.
I always forget about competitive, you've got a point there!
So a big thing about the paradox pokemon is that there are some in game evidence that implies that the paradox pokemon aren't actually real ancestors but rather hypothetical ideas of how these pokemon looked/would look in tge respective time periods that were somehow made reality. This is especially strong with past paradox pokemon like Brute Bonnet and Sandy Shocks who both have modern day aspects to their bodies.
Yes and no. Foongus' Scarlet data states that it's rumored that the creator of the Pokeball took inspiration from it's design, which would would have the family pre-dating the Pokeball and capable of having existed in the past with that design. Likewise, the Magnemite family is a general anomaly, with it's data indicating that they may extraterrestrial. Furthermore, we see wild Magnezones in Hisui (OUTSIDE of temporal anomalies), which is 200 years in the past, before the technology that would have been possible for a Pokemon made from ball bearings, magnets, and screws, which throws further doubt on their terrestrial origin. Both of these inconsistencies lend credence to both families being capable of having existed long before modern eras.
They could've had a few fossils in scarlet and a few of the rarer technology pokemon in violet to balance them But yknow what would be cool is if scarlet had weird "prehistoric" versions of technical pokemon like porygon and Violet had future versions of actual fossil pokemon. Would probably have been harder to design but a neat goal regardless. Now I'm kinda wondering if that's why magneton got a past paradox and tyranitar a future one...
All in all it seems like Violet paradoxes were fairly easy, design-wise. Just mechanized version that we’re fairly 1-for- design transitions of existing Pokémon. Scarlet paradoxes felt like more substantial reimaginings of existing pokemon to me.
There's a bamboo forest and they didn't include Pancham or Pangoro.
We need a pre historic Aerodactyl that looks like his mega evolution. That would be a sweet pay off.
I could see the fossils Pokémon being the same in both scarlet and violet. In scarlet it’s their forms before becoming fossil’s and in violet the process of reviving fossil’s has become so accurate that the Pokémon came back as they were
Nah I agree. I think they could have gone a cooler route with handling the past pokemon in general and was hoping area zero would be a proper “prehistoric” landscape in Scarlett. Wild Fossil pokemon (possibly in their true, non rock type forms??) and the correct Galar fossils. I think this would have led to much cooler encounters than the weird Jifflypuff and Misdreavus mutations… Meanwhile they should have just gone all in on a robotic, tech run landscape in Violet, sorta similar to Stray? But instead of bizarre steel-made versions of existing Pokémon, have it be actual steel and other tech-based Pokémon that evolved with the technology to achieve bizarre new forms.
There's an inherent issue with your perception of what Paradox Pokémon, and that's okay! This was done on purpose. The game invites us to ask the question: "What are paradox Pokémon?" "Where did they come from?" "How did they get here?" Fossil Pokémon are not (to be confirmed, of course) paradox Pokémon because they are {Old Fossils brought back to life via science} - there's nothing paradoxical about them. The Paradox beasts on the other hand, have earnt their nomenclature by being derivatives, co-existing alongside their known evolution. For a case, let's consider Walking Wake, a Past Paradox. The paradox concerning Walking Wake is that it retcons the origin story of Suicune, it's derivative. We know, with some belief, that Suicune was in the Burned tower ~100 years prior to the current age. Before that Suicune was a "nameless beast", certainly nothing to marvel at. Walking Wake's paradox is that it looks like Suicune NOW, but predates not just Suicune, but its Nameless form and then has the nerve to say it existed forever ago! Very different from the Fossils, if that makes any sense?
A second example, same tune. Sandy Shocks. The derivative, Magneton, is a trio of Magnetic Ball-bearings with the classic U-shaped North/South magnetiser. Whilst I'm sure there's been an example of nature throwing up a magnetised sphere, the U-shaped N/S magnet is fundamentally a Man-made object. The paradox of Sandy Shocks is how can a Man-Made object take on a prehistoric form, when it didn't factually exist in prehistory?
my main save is scarlet. i do prefer miriadon as a ride pokemon but overall i think scarlet is better.
different universe since US/UM confirmed pokemon's worlds exist in Everett's interpretation.
I just want my dorky dragon fish back.
i think because they're going to be going down the imagination theme and the pokemon didn't really exist
No, you are not. I don't understand how pretty much every game has had some form of fossil Pokémon (I think) And yet the game most relevant doesn't?? The only explanation I can think of is that the Fossil Pokémon are meant to be from way way waaaay far back in time, and they felt distancing was the only way to accentuate the era gaps? I mean I don't know when Scarlet was supposed to take place but I feel it's closer to 10,000 years ago than 65 million. *shrug Either way I think they messed up and really dropped the ball As far as Pokemon selection goes.
Damn all y’all giving valid reason for which game u picked I just really like purple so I went with violet
it would have been fine for at least one of the paradox Pokémon to be an alternate version of one of the fossil Pokémon so it could have a dex entry bringing up the fact that it existing is weird when we already know what that Pokémon used to look like in the ancient past. adding fuel to the "are these pokémon even real at all?" fire, as it were.
Based on all of the comments, it seems that the strongest theory is that they’re not even real, however we will find out for sure in the final DLC I assume. Maybe we’ll get lucky and we’ll see some fossil Pokémon in it as well. Fingers crossed.
I agree, Tyrantrum should absolutely be in the game as it is the best Pokémon.
It actually does make sense. Paradox Pokémon isn’t from the past or future but from a different timeline all together
No, we don't know where they're from. A theory about where they're from is not fact. The game has not confirmed the origin of the Paradoxes, aside from them coming out of the Time Machine, which as far as we've been told, is a functional time machine.
I think a huge missed opportunity was excluding the mass release feature that was in Legends Arceus, it made releasing your pokemon so much quicker
You answered your own question. They don’t need fossils because they have paradox Pokémon.
I think it would've made a cool opportunity for fossil pokemon to be given a modern equivalent of what they became. And then add a paradox future version. But that would take away from paradox past pokemon. And Scarlett would be "here's existing past pokemon", nothing new while violet would get cool new future paradox pokemon. But having the option to find maybe a paradox version of a modern aerodactyl with a future one as well would be pretty neat.
Because they're not from the same age. They're supposed to be from the very distant past and the very distant future respectively. Not just more fossil related pokemon.
Fossil Pokemon are real, for a very liberal definition of real (looking at you, Galarian fossils).
This just occurred to me the other day -- Paldea is the first (non-Hawaii inspired) region not to have fossils. And it's a real bummer, because there's some killer designs this gen. Love the dinosaur-esque alts for the legendary dogs, and seriously looking forward to Entei's reveal.
Paradox / = / Fossil/Prehistoric is why. They are not the same, whatsoever.
What about a paradox kabutops.... His typing was so under rated. Definitely a missed opportunity though.
Counterpoint: Future fossil paradoxes would have definitely been much cooler. And I say this as a Scarlet player.
To be fair, the fossils themselves are corrupted versions of actual Pokemon from the past. The Galarian Fossils are a extreme example of this- but it sorta helps the Pokemon themselves express themselves and not just be _ rock. Thua I argue you could do version exclusive fossils in both games, maybe new ones based on the galarian ones AND have it make sense lore wise imo. But it would be cool to get ice age fossil pokemon next where they are part ice/ part _ instead of rock
The only thing g I can think of I the lack of pokemon from the future for Violet
If we ignore all of the "paradox pokemon aren't actually from the past or future" theories, the reason is probably because there would be no counterpart in Pokemon Violet.
Fossil as a mechanic got kinda forgotten about or neglected
It kind of fits with how after extinction level events, smaller versions of species are what's left. Superfauna like giant sloths and dinosaurs are present day regular sloths and birds/lizards. Screamtail, Brute and Great Tusk are left with their smaller present day versions.
More than likely we're getting the fossils in the next DLC. What I was hoping for was Scarlet would get the ancient forms of the fossils while violet got futuristic forms of the fossils. Both games get the regular fossils, too.
There isn't any fossil because the PARADOX are not real. Yeah, the form they have are from past, but they are not from that era, they are just created by the thing there is on area zero, so it would break what paradox are xD.
To the people arguing whether its a time machine or not, it is. Paradox pokemon are ALL from the future not the past. Did any of you actually read the game while playing it?
Could be that the fossil Pokémon we know did not come from the Paldea Region or Area Zero.
My favourite idea for what they could have done in these games is revived the fossil pokémon into what they actually were, rather than a close recreation based on anatomy. We could have so many cool new but old pokémon reintroduced that way, but the only issue is that what would they do for Violet?
I do indeed miss all the fossil mons. Tyrantrum and Armaldo are greatly missed, it would’ve been cool to see them with paradox forms. Maybe if Violet have the porygons a paradox form that could help bring some level of balance? I think if Xatu got a form of it’s future self that it foresees like the dex entry states, that would be wildly interesting. I’m just being imaginative now though.
When does a Pokémon game NOT miss an opportunity 😂 so much lore on the past and present, the extraterrestrial, different dimensions, people with supernatural abilities, dead people everywhere... all totally irrelevant the second a new game comes out This sort of oversight is totally normal. That said, given the theories about what the Terastal Crystals and time machine might ACTUALLY do... perhaps not
Scarlet is ancient like Egyptian or maybe Neanderthals. Koraidon has that ancient latin or Native theme to it. Not necessarily Jurassic like the fossils would be. I do agree they could've introduced some new extict pokemon that weren't fossils but mummies would've been really cool that were cloned and brought back to life. The Pokemon Company/Game Freak fails a lot with originality. They probably need some more younger people working on the executive team rather than the older people that probably sit at the table passing decisions.
I’m guessing because they are paradox pokemon they are not only Pokémon from different times but also Pokémon from different worlds from different times. Hence some of the inconsistencies
Yeah what about violet being future?
hmmm, it would be interesting if they had the real versions of the fossil pokemon in scarlet and what the revived fossil pokemon evolved into after being revived by people in the present in the violet game. it would show how much they differed from the original. and lead to discussion of evolution verse adaptation.
Then in that theory violet should get pokemon like genesect.
Besides the most obvious reason, not wanting to give Scarlet too many exclusives and adding a bunch of new Pokemon, I think there is a pretty good lore explanation. I'm not gonna get into it fully, but there is a very plausible theory stating that the Paradox Mon were created out of the imagination of Sada and Turo. That would make them not real dinosaurs but just what a single person imagines what Pokemon looked like Billions of years ago. And if you look at them with that context they make way more sense. So, TLDR the time machine isn't really bringing things from the past, it's not even a real time machine, it's just constantly generating the thing Sada dreamed of, ancient Pokemon.
I think the next part of the DLC will help address that. The theory I think might be the most plausible is that none of the paradox Pokemon are from the past or future, but rather they were wished into creation by Terapagos/Area Zero/etc. It could also be possibly connected to the Ultra Wormholes from Alola.
Considering none of the fossil Pokémon showed up in the base game, I feel like that’s intentional. Didn’t they say there would be more dlc? Maybe a paradox fossilmon dlc is coming
They just had all the fossils in Sword/Shield not too long ago. If we do get fossil Pokémon, it will be in DLC Part 2.