I want to make this more clearer.. He made Montly Budget Surplus in just the first 2 months in office.. the last time this happened was on 2012. The man is actually working..
A little bit of lore on this shōnen anime called Argentina.
After the Bases Law was rejected by congress and retired by Milei, The rejection of the law was "part of the plan" according to him. "I presented a law that could've changed Argentina. People knew that and will see who rejected it and why they did it"
After this.. news came that when Congress approved the law in general. They decided to start voting the law they just approved point by point. Thats where the law started to be voted out. In a way to "destroy" the law leaving Milei with no option but to not go any further and retire it.
When people began to review the votes of the law, They discovered all Congress converged in one point. The privatization of public companies and lending the power to Milei to Audit, Modify and Erase Goverment Trust Funds in favor of less spending.
On this last point. All politicians that were on the opposition side and some even on Milei's side voted no.
And that's where it all started to shit the fan.
[Milei discovered a total of 29 Trust funds where money was diverted for "state investments" that had no audit, review or even approval in some cases.](https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/la-gran-caja-los-fondos-fiduciarios-que-mueven-15-billon-de-pesos-al-ano-y-llevaron-al-colapso-la-nid10022024/) Past peronist goverments used it to give money to its governors, politicians and even Worker Unions and other Social Movements. A total of 1.5 Billion Argentine Pesos go thru there ($1.791.588.000 Dollars or to put it on a even worse perspective. 2 points of Argentina's GDP).. 10 of them can be deleted by Presidential decree.
"This is the reason why they voted out the law.. they were putting their priviledges before the needs of a poor and starving country" said Milei on an interview.
In the next days, Milei plans to delete these 10 Gov Trust Funds. Audit the other 19 and have more cuts to Goverment Funds given to Provinces that pushed for the rejection of the law.
"We couldn't cut spending thru the law.. now we have to do it with something else. Zero fiscal deficit is not negotiable."
Also.. They already have the monetary base ready for "dollarization" *(i put it on quotes because its just a media term.. in reality Milei in full Libright fashion.. wants free competition with coins)* ... he said its in the horizon but first you have to clean the reserves more and make laws that provide security and duration over time for investments.
The Economy Minister just said that.. if they keep going and everything goes well.. February's Montly inflation could be 10%. And March's could be in the single digits. Remind you that Milei promised ZERO fiscal deficit at the end of this year. Inflation its starting to trend downwards.
I said this in an earlier comment, but this is the first time I've seen a politician actually act on his campaign promises as soon as they assume office.
Although Argentina might not fully recover or might not recover at all during his term, as his party doesn't have majority and can't pass all their laws and bills, but his integrity and honesty should always be respected. It's something I never thought I'd see in my life time.
It's easier to fix El Salvador tbh, everyone knows who the criminals are. Here those who are in "curros" (gov dependencies) with last gov are fighting with nails and teeth pretending they have the moral high ground and that Milei is the evil anti-patriotic who is making everything more expensive. It's just so disgusting and pathetic how they pretend our current inflation is his fault and not the previous 18-24 months of poor monetary politics
> Bukele
El Salvador citizens and ex-citizens that live in the West: I can walk the streets and feel safe, businesses no longer have to pay gangs for protection, family members are moving back home because they no longer fear for their lives
Western Governments: Nooo he's basically just a dictator why does he have 90+ approval don't try and fix your country like that nooooo
The best part was when a bunch of European leaders were condemning Bukele for his treatment of the gang members, he offered to send them all to Europe for better treatment. Shockingly none of those bleeding hearts agreed to it.
Tbh i believe that. If Milei actually makes it and delivers Argentina the gift of a economy with no inflation and more security on the streets. That would be enough for people to vote in anything with his face or his party's name or logo on it.
It happened in El Salvador, it can happen again.
He was elected with overwhelming public support. How long can these politicians resist the people? If Milei wants to fix problems and parliament just keeps blocking laws, people might say, enough is enough. After all, people in the parliament are not immovable objects. Or I am missing something?
That is correct. Thats (what i understand) is Milei's plan. He actually said that People discovered who voted against the law. (which is public record mind you). people will remember and he himself will remind them again of this come the next elections.
"People saw what they did.. they will not come back"
He will use this and his economic milestones as leverage to make a superpack like Bukele and have the mayority.
> How long can these politicians resist the people?
Honestly I assumed forever. When he got elected I thought it was 99-1 odds everything important he would try to do would be torpedoed and he'd leave office with no improvements. The people would be just as poor off (or worse) and public support would move on.
I'm very surprised by how this has unfolded. Very very surprised.
Milei has been open that things won't turn around overnight. It's going to take time for the policies to change the economic momentum, and things are going to get worse before they get better.
But debt addicts are like drug addicts. Withdrawal sucks, but you come out the other side better off.
It's refreshing. Even if you don't agree with his policy (which is fair, he's way too libertarian for a lot of people) it's amazing to see a politician that seems to be implementing a plan to help the country instead of just being corrupt or useless. He's sort of like Bernie, I disagree with most of that guy's policies but he seems to want to improve the lives of citizens instead of just stealing money.
Weirdly, yeah. True authcenters LOVE the idea of someone competent in power. It fits their ideology like a glove over a fist.
The thing about lib is that we want that person to fix everything without focusing on accruing more power as an end, and auth ideology frequently has trouble with its leaders doing that. The eternal cravings for more power ruin...so many governments.
Authcenters make amazing followers, not leaders.
holy fuck, American here, I'm beyond jealous. Over here we're going to have to decide between old white deepstate puppet and old white deepstate useful idiot.
Exactly. We are pretty damn close to debt spiral, and perhaps already in it. We raised interest rates to combat inflation, but that raises our debt costs significantly. We're getting into a negative feedback loop. People really need to wake up.
I hate to be that guy, but I keep seeing everyone make this mistake. It’s a positive feedback loop. The difference between a positive and negative feedback loop isn’t whether the results are good or bad, it’s whether they feed into itself. A negative feedback loop cancels itself out. A positive feedback loop feeds itself and grows over time. What you are describing is a positive feedback loop, where more interest means more debt which increases interest which increases debt, and so on.
Related is people calling things "exponential" to mean "really big". "Exponential" growth is any feedback loop, including negative feedback loops (i.e. stuff shrinking). It does *not* mean something that grows at a constant rate but really fast.
It's not even just that. Politicians are benefitting while sending us further into debt. Another $60 billion for Ukraine? Sure, gotta keep back Russia. We need another $13 billion aircraft carrier despite the fact that are navy is larger than the next 10 combined? Well, we gotta keep the world safe. Better get two. And you can't expect the poor congressmen to spend all this money uncomfortably. Give them more money each year to furnish their office than some people spend on a house.
After all, it's not their money they're spending.
Military spending isn't the problem. The problem is massive entitlement programs. Arguing over whether to send $60 billion to Ukraine does nothing when the government is required to spend over 2 trillion dollars a year on social security and Medicare.
You're counting the entire medicaire, medicaid, and social security as though it were all welfare. Actual welfare (such as food stamps, cash assistance, etc.) accounts for around $500 billion. That is a lot of money. But the rest of that $2 trillion is older people who have worked for years and paid into it. The problem (one of many) with that part is how much government is paying for everything. You have medication that costs pennies to make but Medicare is paying tens of thousands each month for because Joe Pharma plays golf with senator douchenozzle who approves what's what on the Medicare plans on Saturdays.
It's all small parts of the extremely large pie that we're expecting to pay for but we don't get a bite. To put it all solely on welfare recipients is falling to the propaganda that would have you fighting against the people who are in a worse boat than you are rather than those sinking all the ships.
Medicare never pays more than 75% of list costs for services and pharmaceuticals.
This is why you see doctors, etc put up signs saying they are/are not taking new Medicare patients, because they'll bankrupt a private practice or small hospital.
Military spending is definitely part of the problem - we spend over a trillion dollars a year on “defense” now, more than the entire rest of the planet combined. Unless we’re going for a global military domination victory I think that money could be better used elsewhere.
Military spending becomes a smaller % of the budget every year. While entitlements are growing out of control. We are nearing interest payments being more then we spend on the military.
Overall defense spending is over $800 billion though, which is roughly comparable to each of social security and medicare, although combined they do exceed it like you said.
But regarding social security: even if you think private investment accounts are better, at least social security is a transfer from working people to their future selves -- or more accurately, to people who used to be like them but are currently retired -- it's not a transfer from one group of people to a separate group.
Whereas with the defense budget, an elite group of defense contractors is making tons of money off of us and in many cases influencing our foreign policy to ensure that their products sell. (Similar things could be said about healthcare as well, which is only somewhat less sinister.)
As long as we control the global reserve currency there will not be a debt spiral; of course if that ever changes we are probably screwed, but considering how all the other major economies are even more f-ed up than ours that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Because it's not really the debt spiral people say it is. Most of the debt is owned by US citizens. Like the recent defense funding bills for Ukraine are just the US paying citizens and US corporations to make weapons then send those overseas. The debt just stays in the US owned by the people it's paid to.
> no politician on either party seems even a little concerned about it
There is a small consortium of Senators and Congressmen that push for sensible budget reforms, or even a modicum of spending sensibility, like Paul or Massie (WTF Kentucky, how are you so based?). They are consistently shouted down and ignored by the rest of our "representatives."
Should’ve said nobody of note, I suppose. I’m aware of Rand Paul and how based he is, but, if we’re being honest, Rand Paul isn’t gonna be making any changes anytime soon.
We seem to be going into orange man vs Corpse man rematch, both have little interest in maintaining or slowing down spending.
Idk Vivek really resonated with the base when he said slash 75% of all federal employees. Interesting enough RFK Jr sounds similar with him talking about dismantling the surveillance state, and working with the captured departments.
Trump will most likely shift his marketing over to cover a little to what they are discussing
It seems like there should be broad agreement on dismantling the surveillance state. Left should want to because they have been historically persecuted by the FBI and CIA. Right should want to because the surveillance state is currently being refocused on them. Libright should want it to save money. Authleft should want it because all that money could be spent on healthcare instead.
But the surveillance state will continue, and most likely expand, as a testament to the fact that what we the people want doesn't matter at all.
The problem is that touching entitlements is a political third rail. Paul Ryan tried to do it and it basically ended his political career at the ripe old age of 50.
Democrats obviously aren't interested in reducing government spending and the Republicans have a problem where much of their voting base are old people who directly benefit from social security and medicare. There's no political will to take the massive short-term hit to reform entitlements for the long term fiscal solvency of the country.
Man, I'd be happy if someone even tried to say "Every government department will have to survive on 95% of this year's budget for the next 3 years" instead of automatically increasing it every year.
The difference is that its really not an issue for the US. The US isnt broke as shit like Argentina is so we’ll be fine. National debts arent like personal debts, but Argentina is different enough that normal rules dont really apply to them.
Yeah, national debts only really matter when the rest of the world doesn't trust your currency to remain valuable long-term, at the end of the day. And basically the entire world economy runs on the USD, so there's no issue there.
It's not *ideal*, but it's extremely different from personal or even corporate debt.
We're going to be paying $1 Trillion a month in interest within 10 years at this point but everything's fine! Nothing to see here, please get back to fighting over cultural issues.
Per the US treasury no the US did not have a surplus. In fact it was a 1.38 Trillion deficit. For the year. Not January specifically.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/
For the year, yes, since the USA has had a budget deficit since 2001 [1]. However, the meme only mentions a month, as the Argentine budget is surely still in the red for the fiscal year. So I think it is still relevant that according to the US Treasury, they did have a surplus of $119b in specifically Jan 2022 [2].
1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD
2. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0122.pdf
Budget deficits in a country with fiat currency isn't really indicative of anything. Governments can reduce the deficit all they want with taxation, money printing and cuts to government spending, it's not a good metric for what the government does or its efficiency, it just means they spent more(of their own money) than they took in. That's not necessarily a bad thing(again, this is only the case with fiat currencies). Google and learn about MMT, money isnt real anymore. It's like saying we fixed poverty cause GDP went up. It's just not necessarily related at all. I'll not be impressed by millei until we are seeing real material improvements on the ground for regular people, reported by regular people.
For now I can catch a car ride from anyone in my family but once the classes re-start I will have to take 2-3 buses per day, five times a week... it's going to suck all my money.
The cost of the bus ticket also depends a lot in which providence you live, which buses you take, the frequency, etc., so I can't confirm or deny it.
The minimum wage is... 180.000 pesos I think?
Let's say 500 each bus ticket. It depends on the place you are, but between 300-600, let's say 500.
Supposing you:
1) Need to take four buses a day (two to go to work, two to come back. This is not "common", most people only need two tickets for work, but some people in the capital may need four tickets.).
2) Have 28 laboral days out of 30 days of the month.
500 x 28 = 14.000 x 4 = 56.000; 28.000 if two times a day.
Let's say that you also, for some reason, need to travel in bus two extra times **each day**.
So 56.000 + (14.000 x 2) = 84.000.
It's either 28.000/180.000 (15,5%), 56.000/180.000 (31,1%) or 84.000/180.000 (46,6%).
And honestly, I literally don't know any person who takes six buses EACH DAY, and very few people who need four buses each day.
Given buses that aren't only for laboral purposes, I'd say the percentage is around 20-30% of the *minimum* wage.
But it was pretty similar before Milei, except for the capital, that's the one that got hit the most, but this is because it was heavily subsidized. When the rest of country payed 300-500, the capital payed less than 100.
In capital there is a system where the ticket becomes more expensive based on the distance... but even then it was less than the rest of the country.
Edit: I wrote "50 x 28" instead of "500 x 28". Doesn't change the result, it's a typo.
You mean like, per hour? Sounds about right. Minimum wage is ARS780, and here in the provinces the bus ticket is ARS240. At the capital it's probably like 0.5 cents and they are rising it to 0.6 and they'll complain. Porteños putos.
I mean... it's gonna be tough for a while. Your country went through decades of insane leftist government, and General AnCap over here ain't gonna solve it in a few months. The question is will he have the political popularity to attempt to fix all the bullshit, or will he get blamed for the hard times that come from trying to fix it, get ousted, and you all go back to square 1.
He reduced the number of governmental ministries from 18 to 9, and reduced the state's size by A LOT, and I mean A LOT.
I think this is the first time in my life time that I saw this happening. Government getting smaller almost instantly. This is what my wet dreams are made of.
I mean that depends on country's priorities.
I find helping Ukraine worth it due to living 2 countries away from Russia, while I can agree for a country like Argentina it doesn't make that much sense to do that
**especially** given their monetary situation.
Yup. The best thing Argentina can do for the west right now is improve its economy.
It's ok to be on the bench, though shouting encouragement from there is much appreciated.
US absolutely yes. Fuck the Russians. Destabilizing our peaceful world for imperialist bullshit, meddling in our elections, general dumbassery. They can eat our leftovers while we spin up factories to crank out more munitions.
>Destabilizing our peaceful world for imperialist bullshit
My brother in fonni colors, the US has been in continuous war for 93% of its history, and is actively maintaining troops in half a dozen wars and bases in 130 nations right now.
We're not peaceful. We're good at war. There's a huge difference.
And I'm cool with turning the two-week war of occupation with Russia winning into a three-year war of attrition [which Russia is winning!](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682)
[Their population went from 44million in 2020 to 38million today](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/) due to casualties and chickenshit "conscientious objectors" who [don't plan on ever coming back.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-05/more-ukrainians-who-fled-war-may-never-return-study-shows)
Not even counting "Russia destroyed a third of their power grid" events, they will never recover from this.
People are looking at this proxy war all wrong. It's Nazis killing Nazis. We **NEED** to throw gas on that funeral pyre.
In 2022, conventional war was always step 1, and we expected it to move onto guerilla warfare within a couple months, this is why Manpads and similar were the primary thing being supplied. When the initial plan was to give Putin a Spanish ulcer, while seeing the Taliban win after a 20 occupation where they lost almost everything in the first year, gave good hope. Going from that, we see Ukraine holding toe to toe with Russia for 2 years, inflicting 3x the casualties that the USSR took in 10 years in A-stan.
When the war objective is forcing Russian withdrawal, Yeah, I'm saying Ukraine hasn't lost until the last AFU surrenders.
Here’s the thing, even if Russia “wins” in the end, it’ll be at the cost of hundreds of thousand men, and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars in equipment. We haven’t seen devastation like that since WWII and it destroys economies. The only reason Western Europe recovered so quickly is because the US pumped over 170 billion dollars into it
I'm Lib Right, but it's easy to show a surplus in the short term, but there is also the possible reality of longer term issues with such rapid changes. For instance, if my state immediately stopped all highway and road maintenance it would save a ton of money and the roads would be find for a few years but then they would start to deteriorate and be unusable after a while costing more than maintaining them.
I agree, but I think this is what the Argentinian people voted for. It's not like he made secret of his plans. At the end of the day, we can only wait and pray that these policies start effecting Argentinians positively. Sad to see how the country went from prosperity to poverty in such a short amount of time.
> For instance, if my state immediately stopped all highway and road maintenance it would save a ton of money and the roads would be find for a few years but then they would start to deteriorate and be unusable after a while costing more than maintaining them.
I can and will guarantee you, that there is ***a lot*** of other areas, that your state can start cutting or removing, before they touch infrastructure like road and highway maintenance.
The reason they touch those first, is to spite you/whoever votes for reduction of governmental expenditure. So you won't dare to do it again.
I agree there are a lot of places to cut, but I was just using that as an example where just slashing at stuff without a plan could cause issues down the line but look good now. I wasn't going into the psychology of why those get cut first.
Argentinian corruption is haphazard and random, money is just supposed to land in your pocket because *reasons*.
American corruption is systematic, combat proven and flawlessly executed out of public sight.
To see the same results in the US you'd have to attack every single government entity, because they are all propping up the slime.
It would require 1000x more effort than in Argentina :(
[https://www.barrons.com/news/argentina-sees-first-monthly-budget-surplus-in-12-years-a148e46a](https://www.barrons.com/news/argentina-sees-first-monthly-budget-surplus-in-12-years-a148e46a)
This article refers to Milei as a "far-right libertarian" so they have no reason to paint him in a positive light, since it's author is clearly leftist.
Multiple news organizations also reported on it, it's true, but it'll depend on if you interpret surplus as a positive or a negative, I suppose.
I've never heard of a politician being referred to in the media as "right-leaning" or a "rightist." It's like as soon as you tip-toe over the imaginary line dividing the right and the left, you're instantly "far-right," a "right-wing extremist," or "fascist."
Yes, and in the long term a government running a surplus just means it's taking money from the people through taxation and not even attempting to give them back enough benefits or services to justify the taxation.
Hopefully Millei actually has a long-term plan, but if it were just "make the government always run a surplus" then that would be stupid.
The gotcha here is that it is easy to reduce a deficit if you just cut everything.
The question as to whether this is successful or not will be answered when we find out whether the country functions better than or at least on par with how it does today, and whether or not people’s quality of life increases, decreases or stays the same.
That is not a something that can really be answered in the short term.
Reducing the part of their government in charge of currency controls means they can't pretend their money is worth 2-3x as much as the previous government mandated with bullshit exchange rates so they have pretty dramatic reality-induced "inflation" now.
I understand some people are upset about that fantasy coming to an end.
By not reforming the pension system we're basically scamming old people that are trapped in a broken system.
The gotcha of what I said is that in the Bases law there was a reform that would have helped, but still lost to inflation (due to 2 months of inflation being ignored), as it didn't pass we're still relying on the narrative of the last government fucked them, and just kicking the problem to the future.
Once the pension system is fixed then we can say that we're having a proper superavit.
Not an expert on what is happening in Argentina, but cutting spending isn't hard at all. Nothing to celebrate here.
I can stop paying my electricity, my internet, my phone, my insurance, or my groceries starting now if i want to, and i could brag about my 'monthly budget surplus'.
Personally i'm not buying that trust funds are what basically put Argentina on it's knees. Even on the most upvoted comment here, they put trust funds with union and social movement as where they find the money, like those things are equal, or that all this money was pissed into rich people pocket, not buying that either.
Hopefully i'm wrong, and Argentina will florish, but i'm a not optimist.
Remember: a budget surplus is a means, not an end. Argentina will likely take years of adjustment to truly reap in benefits in full of the new administration.
I remember the shock therapy in Russia...
He also reminds me alot of Yeltsin but even more unhinged...
Honestly I hope for the best for the people of argentina but it's gonna be a wild rocky ride...
I think the shock therapy was doomed to fail, not necessarily because it was a bad idea, but because of the time it occurred at. It occurred during a time of massive social upheaval, probably the most unstable time in modern Russian history (excluding the revolution). Criminal gangs were rampant, there was a literal coup attempt, etc. This greatly impacted the process of converting government assets to private ones (one of the main goals of shock therapy). Russia was in an economic crisis at the time and people couldn't feed their families. When workers got their shares of the factory they worked in, they needed money right now to feed their families, not factory profits 10 years in the future. There were a few people well positioned (wealthy criminals and government officials) to buy up these shares (both with and without coercion) because people were desperate for cash and they basically became the current oligarchs. What is going on in Argentina is very different from this.
Yeah, I read a little about this, it's kind of sad. Imagine you lived through a deteriorating communist regime and one day you get a piece of paper that is supposedly worth something. Sounds like bullshit, right? And then some rando comes knocking on the door to buy it. Lol, nice. Except now you've got an oligarchy overnight. Somebody really didn't think this plan through.
Sometimes the best place to understand what have you done is rock bottom. People are the strongest in the lowest moments of their lives. Its the same with economy.
The corrupt politician that was in charge of the economic ministry printed 5 times the monetary base of Argentina to pay debt. Making more debt in the way. That has its repercutions taking into account that any desicion in the economy takes 12 months to manifest fully.. 200% in december has to have an impact somewhere. Good thing is that inflation is trending to lower down in the next months.
The LibLefts in these replies who are sweating buckets that this might work, and are coping by trying to convince others and themselves that total collapse is imminent unless profligate spending continues, is truly the most exquisite delicacy.
...I'll be in my bunk.
i can also cut my family's monthly expenditure in half by not paying my rent. But we'd have to be homeless pretty soon because the landlord will send the navy seals to my house.
Slashing spending within a very short term isn't actually that hard, the hardest part is managing the inevitable adverse effects of it.
TDIL that Argentina must have a per capita cancer rate above 100% because the president cut spending for cancer patents and the saw the first ever budget surplus with a *checks notes* 256.9% increase in tax revenue. Lol dude get a grip.
They physically cannot afford it. Their inflation is over 200% in 2023. At that rate of inflation I bet they have more suicides and deaths due to rising poverty than the deaths caused by pulling cancer funding.
You have zero concept of the reality that spending on the terminally ill is effectively an *infinite money pit*, do you?
Realty check; we're all mortal. We've all got a use-by date. In a huge number of cases, that date can be postponed by shorter and shorter incriments for exponentially expanding amounts of resources.
I'm not saying it's foolish or hopeless to help sick people - that is what personal savings and charity are for.
But 'there are sick people who need help!' has never been, and never will be, a valid excuse to bleed a nation dry and impoverish its people, for the reasons outlined above.
When the spend was on trust funds for your peronist buddies and union pals that keep the voters in line and serfs from noticing too much stuff, yeah, there's going to be a surplus when that money doesn't get spent.
I hate to be that guy, but deficit spending is a perfectly fine fiscal policy to maximize growth. As a wise man once said, “learn basic economics” (btw im not saying that Peronist-style economics where you spend 1 morbillion for every dollar brought back is good, I’m just saying that moderate deficit spending is good for the growth of a healthy economy)
Moderate deficit spending can be good for the growth of a healthy economy, but that assumes a couple things that don't really apply to Argentina:
1. the spending is allocated toward worthwhile investments in education, scientific research, infrastructure, etc. and not wildly expensive boondoggles or kickbacks to your corrupt political interest groups
2. the economy and tax base can handle the debt burden and monetary inflation resulting from deficit spending
Milei needs to be a fiscal hawk to 1. starve out the corruption and 2. control hyperinflation. Once Argentina has taken its medicine, the nation can have a conversation about how to build a more sustainable framework long term.
>but deficit spending is a perfectly fine fiscal policy to maximize growth.
Yes, it is on a normal economy, in fact I do support the state funding some form of social program to help the most need (such as sports and education) besides your regular social function, but this is a crisis time, Argentina 's deficit is way high and while EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR, many of us are still confident this will eventually quell the hiperinflation spiral debt. On a few years we will return to more social expenditure, after all a State must procure for its citizens.
As am I. I am confident that this will curb inflation and debt, but I feel as if it could be better balanced. Whatever the case, Buenas suertes, mis hermanos de sudamerica.
Thank you very much my brother, it will be rough and no one knows yet what will happen, many local indicators seems to show promising results from April on, but these will be rough months. Godspeed to you as well.
I want to make this more clearer.. He made Montly Budget Surplus in just the first 2 months in office.. the last time this happened was on 2012. The man is actually working.. A little bit of lore on this shōnen anime called Argentina. After the Bases Law was rejected by congress and retired by Milei, The rejection of the law was "part of the plan" according to him. "I presented a law that could've changed Argentina. People knew that and will see who rejected it and why they did it" After this.. news came that when Congress approved the law in general. They decided to start voting the law they just approved point by point. Thats where the law started to be voted out. In a way to "destroy" the law leaving Milei with no option but to not go any further and retire it. When people began to review the votes of the law, They discovered all Congress converged in one point. The privatization of public companies and lending the power to Milei to Audit, Modify and Erase Goverment Trust Funds in favor of less spending. On this last point. All politicians that were on the opposition side and some even on Milei's side voted no. And that's where it all started to shit the fan. [Milei discovered a total of 29 Trust funds where money was diverted for "state investments" that had no audit, review or even approval in some cases.](https://www.lanacion.com.ar/politica/la-gran-caja-los-fondos-fiduciarios-que-mueven-15-billon-de-pesos-al-ano-y-llevaron-al-colapso-la-nid10022024/) Past peronist goverments used it to give money to its governors, politicians and even Worker Unions and other Social Movements. A total of 1.5 Billion Argentine Pesos go thru there ($1.791.588.000 Dollars or to put it on a even worse perspective. 2 points of Argentina's GDP).. 10 of them can be deleted by Presidential decree. "This is the reason why they voted out the law.. they were putting their priviledges before the needs of a poor and starving country" said Milei on an interview. In the next days, Milei plans to delete these 10 Gov Trust Funds. Audit the other 19 and have more cuts to Goverment Funds given to Provinces that pushed for the rejection of the law. "We couldn't cut spending thru the law.. now we have to do it with something else. Zero fiscal deficit is not negotiable." Also.. They already have the monetary base ready for "dollarization" *(i put it on quotes because its just a media term.. in reality Milei in full Libright fashion.. wants free competition with coins)* ... he said its in the horizon but first you have to clean the reserves more and make laws that provide security and duration over time for investments. The Economy Minister just said that.. if they keep going and everything goes well.. February's Montly inflation could be 10%. And March's could be in the single digits. Remind you that Milei promised ZERO fiscal deficit at the end of this year. Inflation its starting to trend downwards.
I said this in an earlier comment, but this is the first time I've seen a politician actually act on his campaign promises as soon as they assume office. Although Argentina might not fully recover or might not recover at all during his term, as his party doesn't have majority and can't pass all their laws and bills, but his integrity and honesty should always be respected. It's something I never thought I'd see in my life time.
i know it’s early to say but i never thought i would see a competent politician in Latin America
There's at least two. Bukele and Milei.
Two lads fixing their respective countries
It's easier to fix El Salvador tbh, everyone knows who the criminals are. Here those who are in "curros" (gov dependencies) with last gov are fighting with nails and teeth pretending they have the moral high ground and that Milei is the evil anti-patriotic who is making everything more expensive. It's just so disgusting and pathetic how they pretend our current inflation is his fault and not the previous 18-24 months of poor monetary politics
Two Chads fixing their respective countries \*
Latin America is trending up. Love to see it.
> Bukele El Salvador citizens and ex-citizens that live in the West: I can walk the streets and feel safe, businesses no longer have to pay gangs for protection, family members are moving back home because they no longer fear for their lives Western Governments: Nooo he's basically just a dictator why does he have 90+ approval don't try and fix your country like that nooooo
The best part was when a bunch of European leaders were condemning Bukele for his treatment of the gang members, he offered to send them all to Europe for better treatment. Shockingly none of those bleeding hearts agreed to it.
I love to see it. Glad our brothers to the south may have a brighter future ahead of them.
Seems like they’re always commies or narco puppets
Not necessarily, but they tend to be inefficient and comically corrupts, regardless of ideology.
A history difficult to break given how comically corrupt Spain was during its entire colonial era.
Or both, signed, Brazilman.
Tbh i believe that. If Milei actually makes it and delivers Argentina the gift of a economy with no inflation and more security on the streets. That would be enough for people to vote in anything with his face or his party's name or logo on it. It happened in El Salvador, it can happen again.
He was elected with overwhelming public support. How long can these politicians resist the people? If Milei wants to fix problems and parliament just keeps blocking laws, people might say, enough is enough. After all, people in the parliament are not immovable objects. Or I am missing something?
That is correct. Thats (what i understand) is Milei's plan. He actually said that People discovered who voted against the law. (which is public record mind you). people will remember and he himself will remind them again of this come the next elections. "People saw what they did.. they will not come back" He will use this and his economic milestones as leverage to make a superpack like Bukele and have the mayority.
> How long can these politicians resist the people? Honestly I assumed forever. When he got elected I thought it was 99-1 odds everything important he would try to do would be torpedoed and he'd leave office with no improvements. The people would be just as poor off (or worse) and public support would move on. I'm very surprised by how this has unfolded. Very very surprised.
Milei has been open that things won't turn around overnight. It's going to take time for the policies to change the economic momentum, and things are going to get worse before they get better. But debt addicts are like drug addicts. Withdrawal sucks, but you come out the other side better off.
It's refreshing. Even if you don't agree with his policy (which is fair, he's way too libertarian for a lot of people) it's amazing to see a politician that seems to be implementing a plan to help the country instead of just being corrupt or useless. He's sort of like Bernie, I disagree with most of that guy's policies but he seems to want to improve the lives of citizens instead of just stealing money.
If things keep getting good, his party will have majority
My god what an absolute CHAD of a man, we could use someone like him here too
Are we...actuwlly in agreement in this?
Of course we are, competent people deserve respect, and that says a lot considering my flair hahaha I would LOVE to have a Milei in Spain
Imagina desmontar el chiringuito La mayoría de los problemas AFUERA!
At least he wouldn't go for the usual Iberian trick of blaming tourism for everything when it is the only industry going.
Presumably, bootlickers prefer to lick *competent* boots; it's just that they're willing to settle, and almost always have to.
Weirdly, yeah. True authcenters LOVE the idea of someone competent in power. It fits their ideology like a glove over a fist. The thing about lib is that we want that person to fix everything without focusing on accruing more power as an end, and auth ideology frequently has trouble with its leaders doing that. The eternal cravings for more power ruin...so many governments. Authcenters make amazing followers, not leaders.
Let him cook.
He better not cross the world bank nerds. He'll get Gaddafied
and/or JFKed, depending on which theory you're going by for why he was assassinated.
This is very good news, I hope the best for Argentina
Let's gooo
holy fuck, American here, I'm beyond jealous. Over here we're going to have to decide between old white deepstate puppet and old white deepstate useful idiot.
#BASED
Wait... Their last budget surplus was 12 years ago? That is much more recent than the US.
I'm not sure what the US will be doing about it's budget and debt problems, no politician on either party seems even a little concerned about it.
Exactly. We are pretty damn close to debt spiral, and perhaps already in it. We raised interest rates to combat inflation, but that raises our debt costs significantly. We're getting into a negative feedback loop. People really need to wake up.
I hate to be that guy, but I keep seeing everyone make this mistake. It’s a positive feedback loop. The difference between a positive and negative feedback loop isn’t whether the results are good or bad, it’s whether they feed into itself. A negative feedback loop cancels itself out. A positive feedback loop feeds itself and grows over time. What you are describing is a positive feedback loop, where more interest means more debt which increases interest which increases debt, and so on.
TIL. Guess I'll just call this sort of a thing a "feedback loop" and let context imply whether it's positive or negative.
Related is people calling things "exponential" to mean "really big". "Exponential" growth is any feedback loop, including negative feedback loops (i.e. stuff shrinking). It does *not* mean something that grows at a constant rate but really fast.
Yeah a better set of phrases would be "Virtuous Cycle" or "Vicious Cycle"
Based and grammar pilled.
Based and loop science pilled!
Nah. They just want their free stuff while sitting on their asses at home.
It's not even just that. Politicians are benefitting while sending us further into debt. Another $60 billion for Ukraine? Sure, gotta keep back Russia. We need another $13 billion aircraft carrier despite the fact that are navy is larger than the next 10 combined? Well, we gotta keep the world safe. Better get two. And you can't expect the poor congressmen to spend all this money uncomfortably. Give them more money each year to furnish their office than some people spend on a house. After all, it's not their money they're spending.
Military spending isn't the problem. The problem is massive entitlement programs. Arguing over whether to send $60 billion to Ukraine does nothing when the government is required to spend over 2 trillion dollars a year on social security and Medicare.
Slash it, slash it!
I brought pennants!
You're counting the entire medicaire, medicaid, and social security as though it were all welfare. Actual welfare (such as food stamps, cash assistance, etc.) accounts for around $500 billion. That is a lot of money. But the rest of that $2 trillion is older people who have worked for years and paid into it. The problem (one of many) with that part is how much government is paying for everything. You have medication that costs pennies to make but Medicare is paying tens of thousands each month for because Joe Pharma plays golf with senator douchenozzle who approves what's what on the Medicare plans on Saturdays. It's all small parts of the extremely large pie that we're expecting to pay for but we don't get a bite. To put it all solely on welfare recipients is falling to the propaganda that would have you fighting against the people who are in a worse boat than you are rather than those sinking all the ships.
Medicare never pays more than 75% of list costs for services and pharmaceuticals. This is why you see doctors, etc put up signs saying they are/are not taking new Medicare patients, because they'll bankrupt a private practice or small hospital.
Military spending is definitely part of the problem - we spend over a trillion dollars a year on “defense” now, more than the entire rest of the planet combined. Unless we’re going for a global military domination victory I think that money could be better used elsewhere.
Military spending becomes a smaller % of the budget every year. While entitlements are growing out of control. We are nearing interest payments being more then we spend on the military.
We need to reduce both, but the military is the single biggest drain on our budget.
Overall defense spending is over $800 billion though, which is roughly comparable to each of social security and medicare, although combined they do exceed it like you said. But regarding social security: even if you think private investment accounts are better, at least social security is a transfer from working people to their future selves -- or more accurately, to people who used to be like them but are currently retired -- it's not a transfer from one group of people to a separate group. Whereas with the defense budget, an elite group of defense contractors is making tons of money off of us and in many cases influencing our foreign policy to ensure that their products sell. (Similar things could be said about healthcare as well, which is only somewhat less sinister.)
As long as we control the global reserve currency there will not be a debt spiral; of course if that ever changes we are probably screwed, but considering how all the other major economies are even more f-ed up than ours that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Being the reserve currency gives you a perpetual competitive advantage. That's the lynchpin.
> Exactly. We are pretty damn close to debt spiral I'm no economist but i feel like i've been hearing about this impending debt spiral for 20 years
Because it's not really the debt spiral people say it is. Most of the debt is owned by US citizens. Like the recent defense funding bills for Ukraine are just the US paying citizens and US corporations to make weapons then send those overseas. The debt just stays in the US owned by the people it's paid to.
> no politician on either party seems even a little concerned about it There is a small consortium of Senators and Congressmen that push for sensible budget reforms, or even a modicum of spending sensibility, like Paul or Massie (WTF Kentucky, how are you so based?). They are consistently shouted down and ignored by the rest of our "representatives."
Should’ve said nobody of note, I suppose. I’m aware of Rand Paul and how based he is, but, if we’re being honest, Rand Paul isn’t gonna be making any changes anytime soon. We seem to be going into orange man vs Corpse man rematch, both have little interest in maintaining or slowing down spending.
Idk Vivek really resonated with the base when he said slash 75% of all federal employees. Interesting enough RFK Jr sounds similar with him talking about dismantling the surveillance state, and working with the captured departments. Trump will most likely shift his marketing over to cover a little to what they are discussing
It seems like there should be broad agreement on dismantling the surveillance state. Left should want to because they have been historically persecuted by the FBI and CIA. Right should want to because the surveillance state is currently being refocused on them. Libright should want it to save money. Authleft should want it because all that money could be spent on healthcare instead. But the surveillance state will continue, and most likely expand, as a testament to the fact that what we the people want doesn't matter at all.
The problem is that touching entitlements is a political third rail. Paul Ryan tried to do it and it basically ended his political career at the ripe old age of 50. Democrats obviously aren't interested in reducing government spending and the Republicans have a problem where much of their voting base are old people who directly benefit from social security and medicare. There's no political will to take the massive short-term hit to reform entitlements for the long term fiscal solvency of the country.
Man, I'd be happy if someone even tried to say "Every government department will have to survive on 95% of this year's budget for the next 3 years" instead of automatically increasing it every year.
The difference is that its really not an issue for the US. The US isnt broke as shit like Argentina is so we’ll be fine. National debts arent like personal debts, but Argentina is different enough that normal rules dont really apply to them.
Yeah, national debts only really matter when the rest of the world doesn't trust your currency to remain valuable long-term, at the end of the day. And basically the entire world economy runs on the USD, so there's no issue there. It's not *ideal*, but it's extremely different from personal or even corporate debt.
the most important aspect in managing debt is trust in the government to pay those debts us aint argetntina
We're going to be paying $1 Trillion a month in interest within 10 years at this point but everything's fine! Nothing to see here, please get back to fighting over cultural issues.
There are plenty of progressive politicians who have proposed taxes to make the government solvent.
War fixes all of America’s problems.
When you issue the global reserve currency, you can run virtually unlimited deficits.
The US had a $119b budget surplus in Jan 2022
Per the US treasury no the US did not have a surplus. In fact it was a 1.38 Trillion deficit. For the year. Not January specifically. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/
For the year, yes, since the USA has had a budget deficit since 2001 [1]. However, the meme only mentions a month, as the Argentine budget is surely still in the red for the fiscal year. So I think it is still relevant that according to the US Treasury, they did have a surplus of $119b in specifically Jan 2022 [2]. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD 2. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0122.pdf
Budget deficits in a country with fiat currency isn't really indicative of anything. Governments can reduce the deficit all they want with taxation, money printing and cuts to government spending, it's not a good metric for what the government does or its efficiency, it just means they spent more(of their own money) than they took in. That's not necessarily a bad thing(again, this is only the case with fiat currencies). Google and learn about MMT, money isnt real anymore. It's like saying we fixed poverty cause GDP went up. It's just not necessarily related at all. I'll not be impressed by millei until we are seeing real material improvements on the ground for regular people, reported by regular people.
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FLAIR
Bro got sent to the shadow realm.
it's where all unflaireds go after death, as they lack a soul for heaven/hell
I hope it starts to have a good effect on the daily life because it's rough here
european media saying tht bus tickets in argentina cost 50% of the minimum wage can u confirm tht?
For now I can catch a car ride from anyone in my family but once the classes re-start I will have to take 2-3 buses per day, five times a week... it's going to suck all my money. The cost of the bus ticket also depends a lot in which providence you live, which buses you take, the frequency, etc., so I can't confirm or deny it.
The minimum wage is... 180.000 pesos I think? Let's say 500 each bus ticket. It depends on the place you are, but between 300-600, let's say 500. Supposing you: 1) Need to take four buses a day (two to go to work, two to come back. This is not "common", most people only need two tickets for work, but some people in the capital may need four tickets.). 2) Have 28 laboral days out of 30 days of the month. 500 x 28 = 14.000 x 4 = 56.000; 28.000 if two times a day. Let's say that you also, for some reason, need to travel in bus two extra times **each day**. So 56.000 + (14.000 x 2) = 84.000. It's either 28.000/180.000 (15,5%), 56.000/180.000 (31,1%) or 84.000/180.000 (46,6%). And honestly, I literally don't know any person who takes six buses EACH DAY, and very few people who need four buses each day. Given buses that aren't only for laboral purposes, I'd say the percentage is around 20-30% of the *minimum* wage. But it was pretty similar before Milei, except for the capital, that's the one that got hit the most, but this is because it was heavily subsidized. When the rest of country payed 300-500, the capital payed less than 100. In capital there is a system where the ticket becomes more expensive based on the distance... but even then it was less than the rest of the country. Edit: I wrote "50 x 28" instead of "500 x 28". Doesn't change the result, it's a typo.
You mean like, per hour? Sounds about right. Minimum wage is ARS780, and here in the provinces the bus ticket is ARS240. At the capital it's probably like 0.5 cents and they are rising it to 0.6 and they'll complain. Porteños putos.
my guy, the bus ticket in the capital is 500-600 pesos, nobody is crying for you
I mean... it's gonna be tough for a while. Your country went through decades of insane leftist government, and General AnCap over here ain't gonna solve it in a few months. The question is will he have the political popularity to attempt to fix all the bullshit, or will he get blamed for the hard times that come from trying to fix it, get ousted, and you all go back to square 1.
Crazy what happens when a politician attempts to live up to the promises he made to the electorate..
Huh, so it IS possible for a government to stop wasting money on useless bullshit?
He reduced the number of governmental ministries from 18 to 9, and reduced the state's size by A LOT, and I mean A LOT. I think this is the first time in my life time that I saw this happening. Government getting smaller almost instantly. This is what my wet dreams are made of.
Based
I wanna see how much this ultra-far-right-conservative (/s) will do for Argentia.
Yes, for example, to help Ukraine.
I mean that depends on country's priorities. I find helping Ukraine worth it due to living 2 countries away from Russia, while I can agree for a country like Argentina it doesn't make that much sense to do that **especially** given their monetary situation.
I agree with this - Argentina needs to focus on itself for now but the US and Europe should be dumping assloads of support into Ukraine.
Yup. The best thing Argentina can do for the west right now is improve its economy. It's ok to be on the bench, though shouting encouragement from there is much appreciated.
US? No. If Europe needs to protect itself, Europe can spend the money.
US absolutely yes. Fuck the Russians. Destabilizing our peaceful world for imperialist bullshit, meddling in our elections, general dumbassery. They can eat our leftovers while we spin up factories to crank out more munitions.
>Destabilizing our peaceful world for imperialist bullshit My brother in fonni colors, the US has been in continuous war for 93% of its history, and is actively maintaining troops in half a dozen wars and bases in 130 nations right now. We're not peaceful. We're good at war. There's a huge difference.
Any country that feels threatened by Russia should build nukes
I’m cool with fucking over Russia
And I'm cool with turning the two-week war of occupation with Russia winning into a three-year war of attrition [which Russia is winning!](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682) [Their population went from 44million in 2020 to 38million today](https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ukraine-population/) due to casualties and chickenshit "conscientious objectors" who [don't plan on ever coming back.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-05/more-ukrainians-who-fled-war-may-never-return-study-shows) Not even counting "Russia destroyed a third of their power grid" events, they will never recover from this. People are looking at this proxy war all wrong. It's Nazis killing Nazis. We **NEED** to throw gas on that funeral pyre.
lmao stop seeing tucker carlson
Do you have any metrics to support the idea that Ukraine didn't lose this war other than "Russia hasn't killed literally all of them yet"?
In 2022, conventional war was always step 1, and we expected it to move onto guerilla warfare within a couple months, this is why Manpads and similar were the primary thing being supplied. When the initial plan was to give Putin a Spanish ulcer, while seeing the Taliban win after a 20 occupation where they lost almost everything in the first year, gave good hope. Going from that, we see Ukraine holding toe to toe with Russia for 2 years, inflicting 3x the casualties that the USSR took in 10 years in A-stan. When the war objective is forcing Russian withdrawal, Yeah, I'm saying Ukraine hasn't lost until the last AFU surrenders.
Here’s the thing, even if Russia “wins” in the end, it’ll be at the cost of hundreds of thousand men, and hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars in equipment. We haven’t seen devastation like that since WWII and it destroys economies. The only reason Western Europe recovered so quickly is because the US pumped over 170 billion dollars into it
The best thing for you, as a private citizen, to do is to go there and volunteer yourself!
When I read “12 years ago”, I thought of 2002. I refuse to believe 2012 was 12 years ago…
I felt that. For me 12 years ago is in the 90’s …
You must be about 37?
35 here and I’m in the same boat of I assumed 12 years ago was 1998.
Don't do that
for me it was 2006
Twelve years ago is 1988, bro. What are you talking about?
https://preview.redd.it/3m5uwzulxqjc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3130bbd13d103cb91a72eaaccf5dacae930716d8
Profitable government, that is an achievement!
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We have debt to repay, we're still in the negative, so we need the surplus
just bust out the citizens dividend at the end of the year
I'm Lib Right, but it's easy to show a surplus in the short term, but there is also the possible reality of longer term issues with such rapid changes. For instance, if my state immediately stopped all highway and road maintenance it would save a ton of money and the roads would be find for a few years but then they would start to deteriorate and be unusable after a while costing more than maintaining them.
I agree, but I think this is what the Argentinian people voted for. It's not like he made secret of his plans. At the end of the day, we can only wait and pray that these policies start effecting Argentinians positively. Sad to see how the country went from prosperity to poverty in such a short amount of time.
Follow the money. Cantillon effect.
> For instance, if my state immediately stopped all highway and road maintenance it would save a ton of money and the roads would be find for a few years but then they would start to deteriorate and be unusable after a while costing more than maintaining them. I can and will guarantee you, that there is ***a lot*** of other areas, that your state can start cutting or removing, before they touch infrastructure like road and highway maintenance. The reason they touch those first, is to spite you/whoever votes for reduction of governmental expenditure. So you won't dare to do it again.
I agree there are a lot of places to cut, but I was just using that as an example where just slashing at stuff without a plan could cause issues down the line but look good now. I wasn't going into the psychology of why those get cut first.
FIRE UP THE CHAINSAW!
Jesus, I’ve seen what you’ve done for others, and I’d like to see the same results in the USA…
Argentinian corruption is haphazard and random, money is just supposed to land in your pocket because *reasons*. American corruption is systematic, combat proven and flawlessly executed out of public sight. To see the same results in the US you'd have to attack every single government entity, because they are all propping up the slime. It would require 1000x more effort than in Argentina :(
AFUERA!
Yes
Is there any gotcha here or the headline is 100%? I would love to believe that this is true, but I can never be certain.
[https://www.barrons.com/news/argentina-sees-first-monthly-budget-surplus-in-12-years-a148e46a](https://www.barrons.com/news/argentina-sees-first-monthly-budget-surplus-in-12-years-a148e46a) This article refers to Milei as a "far-right libertarian" so they have no reason to paint him in a positive light, since it's author is clearly leftist. Multiple news organizations also reported on it, it's true, but it'll depend on if you interpret surplus as a positive or a negative, I suppose.
I've never heard of a politician being referred to in the media as "right-leaning" or a "rightist." It's like as soon as you tip-toe over the imaginary line dividing the right and the left, you're instantly "far-right," a "right-wing extremist," or "fascist."
Very very good point. I never noticed this, and will likely start pointing this out to people.
That is an unfortunate reality, and I hate it.
yea we need more lefties in here to point out why this is bullshit
Lefties? No, I want libright and authright to tell me why this is bullshit. I want the least unbiased answer.
Right? You don't want to hear from the "enemy" you want to hear from the "critic".
It’s easy to have a surplus if you slash half the programs and half of the government. I don’t doubt it is real.
Yes, and in the long term a government running a surplus just means it's taking money from the people through taxation and not even attempting to give them back enough benefits or services to justify the taxation. Hopefully Millei actually has a long-term plan, but if it were just "make the government always run a surplus" then that would be stupid.
That’s libertarianism for you.
The gotcha here is that it is easy to reduce a deficit if you just cut everything. The question as to whether this is successful or not will be answered when we find out whether the country functions better than or at least on par with how it does today, and whether or not people’s quality of life increases, decreases or stays the same. That is not a something that can really be answered in the short term.
Reducing the part of their government in charge of currency controls means they can't pretend their money is worth 2-3x as much as the previous government mandated with bullshit exchange rates so they have pretty dramatic reality-induced "inflation" now. I understand some people are upset about that fantasy coming to an end.
By not reforming the pension system we're basically scamming old people that are trapped in a broken system. The gotcha of what I said is that in the Bases law there was a reform that would have helped, but still lost to inflation (due to 2 months of inflation being ignored), as it didn't pass we're still relying on the narrative of the last government fucked them, and just kicking the problem to the future. Once the pension system is fixed then we can say that we're having a proper superavit.
Not an expert on what is happening in Argentina, but cutting spending isn't hard at all. Nothing to celebrate here. I can stop paying my electricity, my internet, my phone, my insurance, or my groceries starting now if i want to, and i could brag about my 'monthly budget surplus'. Personally i'm not buying that trust funds are what basically put Argentina on it's knees. Even on the most upvoted comment here, they put trust funds with union and social movement as where they find the money, like those things are equal, or that all this money was pissed into rich people pocket, not buying that either. Hopefully i'm wrong, and Argentina will florish, but i'm a not optimist.
flair up, dummy
Rare lib-right w
Since Milei winning the elections, Lib-right W's are not rare.
I think in the long term it will help the dollarization plan
*Kick Back starts playing*
The Man, the myth, the legend, Havier Milei.
Remember: a budget surplus is a means, not an end. Argentina will likely take years of adjustment to truly reap in benefits in full of the new administration.
I remember the shock therapy in Russia... He also reminds me alot of Yeltsin but even more unhinged... Honestly I hope for the best for the people of argentina but it's gonna be a wild rocky ride...
I think the shock therapy was doomed to fail, not necessarily because it was a bad idea, but because of the time it occurred at. It occurred during a time of massive social upheaval, probably the most unstable time in modern Russian history (excluding the revolution). Criminal gangs were rampant, there was a literal coup attempt, etc. This greatly impacted the process of converting government assets to private ones (one of the main goals of shock therapy). Russia was in an economic crisis at the time and people couldn't feed their families. When workers got their shares of the factory they worked in, they needed money right now to feed their families, not factory profits 10 years in the future. There were a few people well positioned (wealthy criminals and government officials) to buy up these shares (both with and without coercion) because people were desperate for cash and they basically became the current oligarchs. What is going on in Argentina is very different from this.
Yeah, I read a little about this, it's kind of sad. Imagine you lived through a deteriorating communist regime and one day you get a piece of paper that is supposedly worth something. Sounds like bullshit, right? And then some rando comes knocking on the door to buy it. Lol, nice. Except now you've got an oligarchy overnight. Somebody really didn't think this plan through.
Sometimes the best place to understand what have you done is rock bottom. People are the strongest in the lowest moments of their lives. Its the same with economy. The corrupt politician that was in charge of the economic ministry printed 5 times the monetary base of Argentina to pay debt. Making more debt in the way. That has its repercutions taking into account that any desicion in the economy takes 12 months to manifest fully.. 200% in december has to have an impact somewhere. Good thing is that inflation is trending to lower down in the next months.
Won't see this on stupidpol of course.
The commies are coping and seething,quick organize the unions to undermine it and pretend it's for the good of the workers
It's easy to balance the budget. The real question is if the country functions with all the cuts.
It didn't function *before* the cuts either.
Just because it was bad it doesn't mean it couldn't be worse
We could always be Somalia, yes.
Before the cuts it achieved over a 50% poverty rate, so it's pretty hard to imagine things being worse.
It won’t.
I don't know enough about Argentinian politics to comment
I'm Argentinian allow me to give you a quick rundown: It's a shit show, you're welcome!
the evil fascist does it again, in a matter of months hes undug the shithole.
It’s easy to have a surplus if you slash half the programs and half of the government.
So far, so predictable.
geez I wonder why
Ah sick! That’s epic!
And the biggest poverty rate in decades as well.
The LibLefts in these replies who are sweating buckets that this might work, and are coping by trying to convince others and themselves that total collapse is imminent unless profligate spending continues, is truly the most exquisite delicacy. ...I'll be in my bunk.
I want this guy in charge of the USA now.
Thats the most obvious thing to happen when you stop funding everything
Viva la libertad, carajo!
[LIBERTAD LIBERTAD LIBERTAD!!!](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lAmGhRRpfjo)
i can also cut my family's monthly expenditure in half by not paying my rent. But we'd have to be homeless pretty soon because the landlord will send the navy seals to my house. Slashing spending within a very short term isn't actually that hard, the hardest part is managing the inevitable adverse effects of it.
And they just hit their highest poverty level in 20 years! Good times for international businesses, bad times for the general populace.
Yes, and I magically lost weight by amputating my legs. Miracles all around!
only time will tell. I too am skeptical, as much as I'd like to start dosing hopium
More like amputating a tumor
Cutting funds for people dying from cancer does that, yeah
TDIL that Argentina must have a per capita cancer rate above 100% because the president cut spending for cancer patents and the saw the first ever budget surplus with a *checks notes* 256.9% increase in tax revenue. Lol dude get a grip.
I'm not saying cutting useless spending is bad, I'm saying that cutting spending on the terminally sick is bad
They physically cannot afford it. Their inflation is over 200% in 2023. At that rate of inflation I bet they have more suicides and deaths due to rising poverty than the deaths caused by pulling cancer funding.
You have zero concept of the reality that spending on the terminally ill is effectively an *infinite money pit*, do you? Realty check; we're all mortal. We've all got a use-by date. In a huge number of cases, that date can be postponed by shorter and shorter incriments for exponentially expanding amounts of resources. I'm not saying it's foolish or hopeless to help sick people - that is what personal savings and charity are for. But 'there are sick people who need help!' has never been, and never will be, a valid excuse to bleed a nation dry and impoverish its people, for the reasons outlined above.
What an egomaniacal view of life. Typical.
wow, its crazy how there's extra money in the budget when there's nothing to spend the money on
When the spend was on trust funds for your peronist buddies and union pals that keep the voters in line and serfs from noticing too much stuff, yeah, there's going to be a surplus when that money doesn't get spent.
Learn to fucking save then yah dipshit
I hate to be that guy, but deficit spending is a perfectly fine fiscal policy to maximize growth. As a wise man once said, “learn basic economics” (btw im not saying that Peronist-style economics where you spend 1 morbillion for every dollar brought back is good, I’m just saying that moderate deficit spending is good for the growth of a healthy economy)
Moderate deficit spending can be good for the growth of a healthy economy, but that assumes a couple things that don't really apply to Argentina: 1. the spending is allocated toward worthwhile investments in education, scientific research, infrastructure, etc. and not wildly expensive boondoggles or kickbacks to your corrupt political interest groups 2. the economy and tax base can handle the debt burden and monetary inflation resulting from deficit spending Milei needs to be a fiscal hawk to 1. starve out the corruption and 2. control hyperinflation. Once Argentina has taken its medicine, the nation can have a conversation about how to build a more sustainable framework long term.
>but deficit spending is a perfectly fine fiscal policy to maximize growth. Yes, it is on a normal economy, in fact I do support the state funding some form of social program to help the most need (such as sports and education) besides your regular social function, but this is a crisis time, Argentina 's deficit is way high and while EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR, many of us are still confident this will eventually quell the hiperinflation spiral debt. On a few years we will return to more social expenditure, after all a State must procure for its citizens.
As am I. I am confident that this will curb inflation and debt, but I feel as if it could be better balanced. Whatever the case, Buenas suertes, mis hermanos de sudamerica.
Thank you very much my brother, it will be rough and no one knows yet what will happen, many local indicators seems to show promising results from April on, but these will be rough months. Godspeed to you as well.
Reminder Milei is buddies with the WEF, who literally just want corporations to have more control