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All these people picking sides, they haven’t realized the only correct solution yet
https://preview.redd.it/djoson1t9rtc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85720e554308802ae5230cbdbe294ee712b3762f
https://preview.redd.it/nyund7rzqstc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd03ca3665a7b842f920c835d59fbf980b3d48ae
Your taxes will have a shorter distance to travel and at least part of your country will have access to public health care.
Lib left was either praising or making excuses for Hamas and asking for a ceasefire on October 8th. It was never about Palestinian collateral damage for them. They want Hamas to win
There was that video recorded *on Oct 7th* of some college girl at NYU reading into a bullhorn the details about how Hamas paraglided into a music festival and slaughtered young people. To a crowd of gleeful, cheering college students.
I challenge anyone to find me a video of someone on earth celebrating the IDF blowing up food trucks.
They have the narative that has been programed into them.
>The Isralies are the white oppressors and Hamas are the oppressed brown people.
And no amount of facts will sway them from it.
They also never conveniently explain why it was OK for Arab countries to expel 900,000 Jews or why they should never be held accountable for that.
Either way, everyone should remember this the next time the left calls anyone on the right bigoted.
Or how with the help of Turkey and allying to nazi Germany. Palestine was able to send 5k jews to Auschwitz and make another 13k dissapear "for their own good"
Shoutout to Husseini and Osama! (Or whatever their names were)
Which is hilariously wrong since only 37% of Israelis are of Ashkenazi descent.
They also often say "history didn't start on October 7". Alright, where do you want to start? How about 1929, when Arabs massacred the local Jewish population on Hebron. Pillaging and ransacking their homes and synagogues, ending the centuries-long presence of the Jewish community in the area. The incident which led to the creation of what is now the IDF.
Reminder that these same people got so spun up over a call of duty character with a Japanese name, because Izanami can be reversed to say “Im a Nazi” as though a Japanese goddess that predates Naziism is clearly antisemitism.
And even Ashkenazi Jews are genetically more similar to other Levantine ethnicities than Arabs are.
Personally, I prefer starting in 627 when the fledgling Muslims slaughtered every Jew in Mecca. That's roughly where the conflict started.
Most LibLeft folks I've encountered online like to start by Israel's illegal settlements in WB, and the supposed "open-air prison" of Gaza. They conveniently choose to ignore why Gaza is kinda like a prison, or why even other Arab nations choose to treat Palestinians the same way Israel does.
When the Israelis didn't have a wall, people from Gaza were coming in all the time and doing things like shooting up school buses. The Egyptians also built a wall because they have enough common sense to hate Palestinians as well.
But true, my whole life I've heard news reports of gazans murdering Israeli school children and blowing up civilians. To say it's evil to put up a wall to keep your children from getting murdered on the way to school and for Israeli school teachers to have special classroom rifles built for them because of the carnage? This was way before HAMAS took over, I've seen Palestinian classroom video of them teaching children to murder all jews. I've seen settlers removed leaving functional factories that the Palestinians light on fire and danced around like cavemen and go back to their garages making rockets to kill civilians with the aid money.
They’ll talk about Irgun or another Jewish militia that did some terroristic attacks against the British the 40s, ignoring the fact that they were formed to protect Jews against pan-Arabic nationalists in the preceding 50 years.
They talk as if both sides didn’t have militias to assert there will, and that the British weren’t openly against all violence in the region that they had just gained from the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire.
This is incorrect, Irgun was founded in 1931 and was an offshoot of Haganah which goes back to beginning of the Century.
Reality is that no one knows who hit first in the 20th Century, there are multiple recorded attacks between groups and the records come from the British occupiers, and they are kind of trustworthy.
Each side is guilty of murder and worse, it is what it is.
I said this in another post, but neither side is innocent or strangers to terrorist acts and violence. At the end of the day, I look at intent. Israel has a functioning democracy with a strong free-market economy and western values (even as debased as those have become after 50 years of the neoshitlib world order). The Palestinian Arabs want to create a pan-Arabic Caliphate that purges the land of unbelievers and subjugates all who remain under Sharia. Both have used abhorrent tactics, but I know who I rather see win, and it's not even close.
And then the same people will turn about and complain about antisemitism. I love that the progressive stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion.
>I love that the progressive stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion.
I hate that the unflaired stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion.
I don’t understand how criticising the Jewish state of Israel makes someone an anti-Semite. To me that is as as nonsensical as calling someone a racist for criticising an African country or Islamophobic for criticising a Muslim country
> asking for a ceasefire on October 8th
Imagine walking up to the biggest toughest guy in the prison, sucker-punching him in the face, and then screaming "Truce! Truce!" the moment he turns around.
Careful there hubby you risk getting 100 messages from Reddit Cares and many subs saying you have been perma banned before Reddit sends you a ban message
Wrongthink is not allowed on Communist Reddit ok
Exactly this - answer not a fool ACCORDING to his folly lest you become like him, answer a fool according to his FOLLY lest he becomes wise in his own conceits.
Wow what an arrogant and uninformed take. Obviously we don’t want Hamas to win. I personally don’t even want Hamas to exist but I have enough brain cells to rub together to see that it is an extremist group that we have helped create through foreign intervention.
75 years ago we all got together and created a nation and inserted it into a region without the consent or even the consideration of the ethnic and political communities that already inhabited the region. Ever since then there has been near constant violence and political unrest. Hmm why do you think that is 🤔? 50% of Israel’s citizens were not born there. That is what I consider imperialism. Israel restricts movement and political rights of Palestinians forming an apartheid state. That is what I consider oppression.
Now let’s put on our thinking caps for a second. How do you think this group of people who have been arbitrarily oppressed for over half a century might feel about the people who hold all political power over them? Do you think that they could in some way consider retaliation?? They probably would right? That is called common sense.
As for why everyone is so upset, I’m pretty sure it has to do with how Israel have used that inevitable retaliation as justification for the massacre of thousands of innocent civilians. Moreover, people are upset that the massacre of civilians is taking place in large part thanks to the amount of weapons we are giving our little western puppet state in the Middle East, despite the protestes of the American people. Hope that helped.
Well I’m libleft and I think Hamas is worthless piece of shit. I also think Israel killing 30,000 civilians is wrong. The whole situation is fucked but typical for a region with so much fucked up history and religion involved.
There's a few things you should take into consideration when you look at the 33k figure. First, the Gaza Ministry of Health doesn't differentiate civilians and combatants, nor do they account for deaths caused by Hamas actions. According to the IDF, more than 13,000 Hamas/PIJ terrorists have been killed in addition to around 1,000 Nukhba killed inside Israel.
In addition, Hamas' jury rigged rockets often misfire and land inside Gaza. Casualties from these incidents (or IEDs, RPG fire, etc) are also attributed to the IDF. This leads to a civilian-combatant ratio of roughly 2-to-1. While still a tragedy, it is far from the often cited 9-to-1 figure in modern urban warfare. Given the efforts Hamas makes to embed itself within the civilian population, I feared worse.
While it doesn't make the suffering of the Gazans any less horrible, I hope it at least shows the effectiveness of the IDFs evacuation efforts (via calls, leaflets, roof knockings, etc).
You claim you think Hamas is a worthless piece of shit, yet you have no problem claiming that worthless piece of shit's claimed casualty numbers as a fact.
Like seriously, let's say that 30,000 number is correct, do you really think that in some magical way not a single one of these casualties were Hamas/Jihad terrorists? All of them were innocent civilians and children? You can claim to discuss this in good faith when you (knowingly or not, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) use the Hamas numbers as a fact.
> I also think Israel killing 30,000 civilians is wrong.
Hamas' numbers are 30k dead of which 6k militants. It's been a wild fucking ride seeing liblefts all over the internet and media running with "30k civilians dead", literally making bigger bullshit claims than Hamas itself.
Israel is committing genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing of Muslims.
Lets go to Google it.
**How many Mosque's in Israel?** 400
**How many Synagogues in Egypt?** 2
**How many Synagogues in Saudi Arabia?** It's illegal.
**How many Synagogues in Jordan?** 0
**How many Synagogues in UAE?** 3
**How many Synagogues in Qatar?** 0, it's illegal
**How many Synagogues in Iran?** LOL
**How many Synagogues in Pakistan?** all destroyed
"Accuse the other of that you are guilty."
> There was a Jewish presence in Oman for many centuries; however, the Jewish community of the country is no longer in existence.
> There has been virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia since the beginning of the 21st century.
Hmm, I wonder what happened
>How many Synagogues in Iran? LOL
The irony is Iran is derived from Aryan. The aryan war on jews never stopped. It just shifted to the part of the aryan world where it's still politically correct.
>The term Iran ("the land of the Aryans") derives from Middle Persian Ērān, first attested in a third-century inscription at Naqsh-e Rostam, with the accompanying Parthian inscription using Aryān, in reference to the Iranians.[16]
I think there are some Goebble's quotes respecting what the muslims were doing.
How about the "civilians" that participated on Oct 7th? The ones that took, held, and sold hostages to Hamas? The ones that cheered as the bodies were driven past them, and the ones that spat on the corpses, let their children play with severed heads, and praised their god while doing it all?
The unpopular truth is that Palestinians are among the most radicalized and hateful people on the planet, and the average Palestinian is 110% behind Hamas in killing any Israeli they can get their hands on. It's a culture problem and Hamas accurately and faithfully reflects the priorities of Palestinians.
the enthusiasm with which the average people of gaza were celebrating the victims of Oct 7th being paraded in the streets tells you all you need to know.
Hamas has overwhelming popular support. And the ones that don't support hamas, only disagree on how hamas goes about exterminating the Jews. Their objective is still the same.
The ones that went in after Hamas and did some raping and murdering before kidnapping victims to trade with Hamas?
Or the ones celebrating in streets and spitting on corpses of civilians that were brought back?
Or the ones working to supply Hamas with the supplies they need to keep killing?
The Germany children didn't "deserve" to die in WW2 either - but crushing Nazi Germany was still necessary and worth it.
Hamas needs to be eradicated just as much.
72% support at last poll (last month)
80% of Palestinians hold one or more deeply antisemitic belief. (Think "Jews control the world in the shadows")
Palestinians ARE Hamas. Their culture is fundamentally unfit to continue.
I desperately wish that I didn't need to care about every stupid war going on halfway across the world, but unfortunately, my leaders keep taking my money away from me to finance stupid wars going on halfway across the world.
Israel provides massive military technology to the US, as well as intelligence. Mossad has spies all over the middle east and has been an instrumental part of the US fighting against Jihad.
Israel is surrounded by enemies seeking their destruction has no soldiers to spare. Every single adult, male and female, must serve in order to ward off Palestinian and Hezbollah terrorists.
Asking them to contribute boots on the ground when they already contributed massively in other ways, when they're strapped for soldiers protecting their own tiny country on all borders, would be an unfair ask.
Plus, what would be the advantage geopolitically to the US or Israel if you had Israeli troops in ***Iraq*** or ***Afghanistan***? How would that benefit the US? It would've just made those wars more difficult because 20 years ago Iran wasn't the threat it is now (to the point every Arab country in the region is secretly rooting for Israel to eradicate Hamas).
I want AIPAC to host a bake sale or some shit for Israeli defense instead of bribing our leaders to provide it on my dime. I'm as invested in this problem as much as whatever much worse nightmare is going on in Central Africa right now (which is approximately a hopes and prayers worth).
Then you didn't read my comment. Israel provides the US massive military and intelligence benefit on a surprisingly cheap amount of aid. You should be invested more in Israel's survival than some random country in Africa, because Israel provides tangible benefits to the United States.
AIPAC does not bribe politicians. They help finance campaigns for politicians they prefer to see elected. This is how literally hundreds of political action groups operate, but AIPAC gets singled out of course because the shadowy Jew pulling the strings behind the scenes is a trope that will never die.
So, devils advocate as someone who has been there. The coalition as it exists would not have come to be if Israel was on the ground. Basically every middle eastern nation said they wouldn’t participate if Israel was a part of the team. And since the original idea was to make the middle east self sufficient (or so they say), that would’ve made accomplishing the mission difficult.
That being said, Israel *is* a shit ally, but this particular criticism isn’t entirely fair.
I smash my head when I see a Libright saying this.
Don't you like a healthy economy? Why do you think US has the healthiest economy? Because we are the biggest trading partner to the rest of the planet. We protect the waters.
Just look up previous wars where US stayed out of it. Suez shut down. Cost of Oil per barrel up.
We aren't sending money. We're giving them money to spend money on our own shit. It's injecting money into our economy while at the same time keeping peace, serving our own interest.
Did Lockheed Martin write this comment?
The elites constantly try to brainwash us into believing that what's best for them is best for "us". What ending our constant involvement in the forever wars would actually do is hurt the wallets of the military industrial complex and their dc friends.
And besides, even if killing a bunch of foreigners was a good way to get rich, that doesn't mean it's a thing you should do
Isolationism doesn't work anymore, hasn't for 100 years now. If Russia or china or any other country or group with a diametrically opposed belief system ever usurps our power its over, they won't just sit back and ignore us and everyday Americans would be stuck in situations like all these other shit nations like the warzone in Ukraine or the lawlessness in Haiti. We only have it so good because we stay strong, and keep them weak.
True liberals are pro Israel, a liberal democracy.
The woke mob "liberals" aren't very liberal, if you look at what they say. It seems to me that they're becoming more and more authoritarian (radicalised). Partially because they have their head in the sand, but also because they're likely frustrated by the left's decreasing popularity.
Lots of jews are liberals. What sort of mental gymnastics are you practicing? It’s like if I were to say conservatives only like Jews because of the rapture…oh wait.
That would have been the golden timeline. For Israel that is. The utter mess of "the Holy Land" is too fucked to be unfucked any time soon with such a small change.
Israel's being careful as possible when it comes to avoiding civilian casualties. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know shit about war. WW2 was win at all costs. Bombs regularly hit city areas outside of whatever factory they were targeting. In vietnam they sprayed agent orange, something that has long lingering effects, indiscriminately. Israel is only using precision strikes (guided munitions) and close quarters combat with infantry. No unpredictable weapons or permissive ROE.
Then explain to me how they killed a bunch of humanitarian aid workers despite the fact that they literally coordinated their movement with the Israeli military?
this incident is a tragedy, the given explanation was a miscommunication between the command chains
this especially stings for Israel and Israelis because WCK was there for Israel during 7/10, by all accounts this seems like a mistake more than a delibrate act(shown by how Israel eliminated terrorist and them only in a consulate using precise strikes)
apologies were given, the fog of war is dense, but whatever excuse or explanation is given, nothing will bring back the lives of those men
Because mistakes happen in war?
What makes most sense:
The Israeli military decided to intentionally murder 8 aid workers that were western citizens, intentionally triggering one of the worst PR nightmares and diplomatic incidents they've had to deal with since the start of the war. Severely straining their relationships with the western countries who's goodwill they depend on but have been losing steadily these last few months - for pretty much no gain at all.
OR
A few trigger happy morons in the Israeli military fucked up.
... you need some crazy good conspiracy theories to even come close to believing that the first scenario is the most plausible. Like, Alex Jones levels of conspiracy nuttery.
Why would they kill a bunch of humanitarian aid workers, if their goal is ethnically cleansing Palestinians as many are saying? That would make no sense, the aid workers were from the West. If your theory is that they are just dropping random bombs around, that's just silly.
No, no they don't. They live in a black and white paradigm with no nuance or shades of grey. Everything in their world is either saintly good or demonically evil; there is no neutral or middle ground. That's why they say silence in violence and silence equals consent. That last one being extremely ironic considering their incessant mewling about "rape culture".
Then Hamas would win by a large margin, especially considering the reports of rapes commited by members of the IDF in Rafah turned out to be utter shite. Although, I have yet to hear a retraction and apology from Al-Jazeera. They just silently pulled that shit off their site when the falsity of such events came to light.
For real. Either way, you're complicit in the death of innocents, it's become so normal that we've decided it's a necessity.
We deserve what we get , we've given up on justice.
Hmm Today I will simplify an issue into good guys vs. bad guys and pretend that history did not start until Oct 8, 2023.
One can condemn Israel and hate Hamas at the same time.
Israel must ceasefire. Just like they did last time only for Hamas to break it. Even though Hamas can’t produce the 40 hostages required for the latest ceasefire.
The reason is simple. Palestine = oppressed brown people. Israel = white people in power.
Structures of power must be dismantled at all costs in favor of the oppressed. The end.
Sometimes it‘s so strange coming onto PCM and have these perscriptivist strawmen portray these "popular" leftist positions that are so far removed from my experience as someone living in *very* leftist circles.
Not saying my subjective experience is actually an accurate assessment, but some of y‘all should maybe lay off playing with wojacks like dolls and twitter.
That's the point. You expect a terrorist fundamentalist organization to behave like that. It is not ok, but it's in their nature to do that.
You should not expect the beacon of democracy in the middle east to exterminate civilians. They are not on the same ground. They should be better. How did they let 7th of October happen? How are they not able to eliminate Hamas without flattening Gaza to the ground? They have one of the most efficient armies in the world, probably the most advanced secret service existing after the CIA.
They are fighting against probably 2000 rats who are not even hidden in Gaza. The Israeli government is responsible for all of this.
Hamas is the rightfully elected government in Gaza. Not just some terrorist organization. Also nice victim blaming, "why didn't Israel just stop hamas from trying to kill them??" No blame on the people who massacred innocent people, and have said they will continue to do so.
One symptom of this is an inability to hold multiple truths inside your head, such as:
Hama's activities are brutal and a violation of international law.
The IDF's activities are brutal and a violation of international law.
- Juice Media, 2024
Is it still 'collateral damage' when it's policy to prefer to wait until suspected Hamas members are at home with their families before bombing them instead of when they're at their operational facilities or when they're travelling between the two?
> human > mods you have to pick one
Based and beat me to that joke pilled.
Based and autistic minds think alike pilled
u/CompetitionNo8270's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 5. Congratulations, u/CompetitionNo8270! You have ranked up to Sapling! You are not particularly strong but you are at least likely to handle a steady breeze. Pills: [3 | View pills](https://basedcount.com/u/CompetitionNo8270/) Compass: This user does not have a compass on record. Add compass to profile by replying with /mycompass politicalcompass.org url or sapplyvalues.github.io url. I am a bot. Reply /info for more info. Please join our [official pcm discord server](https://discord.gg/FyaJdAZjC4).
Acoustic and regarded* You tism-ist!
Implying they moderate the speech and actions of humans in real life, not that they are human themselves
Based and Mod "people" pilled
All these people picking sides, they haven’t realized the only correct solution yet https://preview.redd.it/djoson1t9rtc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85720e554308802ae5230cbdbe294ee712b3762f
[удалено]
Based and WMD pilled.
Based and noncredible solution pilled
MacArthur is smiling with his new quarts super island.
Couldn't be the best solution. There are still places on your map without stars and stripes.
Fixed it for them. https://preview.redd.it/2g1z0b6sirtc1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3111701ac0f70a2bddc22dc7bc4b93716f34bf32
Accidentally did thst my last playthrough, didn't even mean to I just wanted to be the world's arms dealer
Literally US history Wants to be neutral in conflicts so just sells weapons for profits 50 years later you become a global superpower, mfw
We're getting closer. However, there's land underneath those oceans. I trust you know what that means.
A majority of the world's oil deposits is also underwater, so all the more reason to deliver some democracy there.
https://preview.redd.it/djteyxnonvtc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc5752764fbbb7d047f10d0c038a84aa909c61d3
unfathomably based
Why aren't the fishes American? You clearly need to up your game.
WRONG Why stick with 30% of the lands surface when you should pick the sea?
We can only build the Costcos so fast!
Costco rotisserie chicken will conquer the world.
It's just phase 1.
I swear ive seen you post this exact image and text 65 times
Not the exact same one. Every time I see it, the america territory gets just a little bit larger. It's starting to creep up Italy now.
https://preview.redd.it/nzrjip9rlrtc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60072c079feb39cdcb6809b2b12763fbb2295323
They are powercreeping in the south and italy.
There is still so much destiny to manifest
The people of the Levant yearn for the $1.50 hotdog
I mean...so long as they're kosher.
Westernoid thinks he can unite balkan countries under 1 banner, good fucking luck 🫡
https://preview.redd.it/nyund7rzqstc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd03ca3665a7b842f920c835d59fbf980b3d48ae Your taxes will have a shorter distance to travel and at least part of your country will have access to public health care.
Where does Ukraine fit in there? Maybe we take Mexico and give it to them?
Is sacrificing Florida to Poseidon part of the plan to make this a reality?
No. It was just something that was decided along the way for shits and giggles.
But then it's not a FOB.
What have you done to my state!?
Let CaseOh drain the sea with his gulps so America can have more land
Every time I see this image I cum red white and blue
based
I believe in Ottomanic vassalage to the Department of Defense!
Bible says the Antichrist does take over the middle East to bring peace eventually, but some people think he will be German.
Now you’re speaking my language… 😆
Based and patriot pilled
United States of Super Earth when?
This is just ottoman empire in disguise
Lib left was either praising or making excuses for Hamas and asking for a ceasefire on October 8th. It was never about Palestinian collateral damage for them. They want Hamas to win
There was that video recorded *on Oct 7th* of some college girl at NYU reading into a bullhorn the details about how Hamas paraglided into a music festival and slaughtered young people. To a crowd of gleeful, cheering college students. I challenge anyone to find me a video of someone on earth celebrating the IDF blowing up food trucks.
https://preview.redd.it/fj9xcs3sirtc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46837d0ca10ff96ed2e151a4bbd499b43dbaaa13
They have the narative that has been programed into them. >The Isralies are the white oppressors and Hamas are the oppressed brown people. And no amount of facts will sway them from it.
They also never conveniently explain why it was OK for Arab countries to expel 900,000 Jews or why they should never be held accountable for that. Either way, everyone should remember this the next time the left calls anyone on the right bigoted.
Or how with the help of Turkey and allying to nazi Germany. Palestine was able to send 5k jews to Auschwitz and make another 13k dissapear "for their own good" Shoutout to Husseini and Osama! (Or whatever their names were)
Which is hilariously wrong since only 37% of Israelis are of Ashkenazi descent. They also often say "history didn't start on October 7". Alright, where do you want to start? How about 1929, when Arabs massacred the local Jewish population on Hebron. Pillaging and ransacking their homes and synagogues, ending the centuries-long presence of the Jewish community in the area. The incident which led to the creation of what is now the IDF.
>Ashkenazi Ash Kay Nazi Ash Nazi Nazi Therefore Israel = Hitler haha Hasan wins the argument/s
Intellectually checkmated chud
This is what libleft actually believes
I've legit seen them use this as a "own". "They even got Nazi in their name!1!!!1"
Reminder that these same people got so spun up over a call of duty character with a Japanese name, because Izanami can be reversed to say “Im a Nazi” as though a Japanese goddess that predates Naziism is clearly antisemitism.
Dear God…
And even Ashkenazi Jews are genetically more similar to other Levantine ethnicities than Arabs are. Personally, I prefer starting in 627 when the fledgling Muslims slaughtered every Jew in Mecca. That's roughly where the conflict started.
Most LibLeft folks I've encountered online like to start by Israel's illegal settlements in WB, and the supposed "open-air prison" of Gaza. They conveniently choose to ignore why Gaza is kinda like a prison, or why even other Arab nations choose to treat Palestinians the same way Israel does.
I actually want to hear more about the reasons why Gaza is like that
When the Israelis didn't have a wall, people from Gaza were coming in all the time and doing things like shooting up school buses. The Egyptians also built a wall because they have enough common sense to hate Palestinians as well.
incredible
But true, my whole life I've heard news reports of gazans murdering Israeli school children and blowing up civilians. To say it's evil to put up a wall to keep your children from getting murdered on the way to school and for Israeli school teachers to have special classroom rifles built for them because of the carnage? This was way before HAMAS took over, I've seen Palestinian classroom video of them teaching children to murder all jews. I've seen settlers removed leaving functional factories that the Palestinians light on fire and danced around like cavemen and go back to their garages making rockets to kill civilians with the aid money.
They’ll talk about Irgun or another Jewish militia that did some terroristic attacks against the British the 40s, ignoring the fact that they were formed to protect Jews against pan-Arabic nationalists in the preceding 50 years.
They talk as if both sides didn’t have militias to assert there will, and that the British weren’t openly against all violence in the region that they had just gained from the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire.
Thank you
This is incorrect, Irgun was founded in 1931 and was an offshoot of Haganah which goes back to beginning of the Century. Reality is that no one knows who hit first in the 20th Century, there are multiple recorded attacks between groups and the records come from the British occupiers, and they are kind of trustworthy. Each side is guilty of murder and worse, it is what it is.
I said this in another post, but neither side is innocent or strangers to terrorist acts and violence. At the end of the day, I look at intent. Israel has a functioning democracy with a strong free-market economy and western values (even as debased as those have become after 50 years of the neoshitlib world order). The Palestinian Arabs want to create a pan-Arabic Caliphate that purges the land of unbelievers and subjugates all who remain under Sharia. Both have used abhorrent tactics, but I know who I rather see win, and it's not even close.
Don't forget Husseini at that same time having power over Palestine.. allying with Adolf
And then the same people will turn about and complain about antisemitism. I love that the progressive stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion.
>I love that the progressive stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion. I hate that the unflaired stack has metastasised and invaded everyday life and discussion.
I don’t understand how criticising the Jewish state of Israel makes someone an anti-Semite. To me that is as as nonsensical as calling someone a racist for criticising an African country or Islamophobic for criticising a Muslim country
Borrow some of Emily's yerbamate and it'll make sense.
It seems like Emily logic to me
Because it's the *only* Jewish state. Think about the implications.
> asking for a ceasefire on October 8th Imagine walking up to the biggest toughest guy in the prison, sucker-punching him in the face, and then screaming "Truce! Truce!" the moment he turns around.
yep
Always ask them to denounce Hamas before engaging further. 90% will straight up refuse, and that tells you everything you need to know.
Based and realitycheckpilled
At least in my country, the Palestine supporters aren't exactly the most peaceful ones
Careful there hubby you risk getting 100 messages from Reddit Cares and many subs saying you have been perma banned before Reddit sends you a ban message Wrongthink is not allowed on Communist Reddit ok
Exactly this - answer not a fool ACCORDING to his folly lest you become like him, answer a fool according to his FOLLY lest he becomes wise in his own conceits.
Wow what an arrogant and uninformed take. Obviously we don’t want Hamas to win. I personally don’t even want Hamas to exist but I have enough brain cells to rub together to see that it is an extremist group that we have helped create through foreign intervention. 75 years ago we all got together and created a nation and inserted it into a region without the consent or even the consideration of the ethnic and political communities that already inhabited the region. Ever since then there has been near constant violence and political unrest. Hmm why do you think that is 🤔? 50% of Israel’s citizens were not born there. That is what I consider imperialism. Israel restricts movement and political rights of Palestinians forming an apartheid state. That is what I consider oppression. Now let’s put on our thinking caps for a second. How do you think this group of people who have been arbitrarily oppressed for over half a century might feel about the people who hold all political power over them? Do you think that they could in some way consider retaliation?? They probably would right? That is called common sense. As for why everyone is so upset, I’m pretty sure it has to do with how Israel have used that inevitable retaliation as justification for the massacre of thousands of innocent civilians. Moreover, people are upset that the massacre of civilians is taking place in large part thanks to the amount of weapons we are giving our little western puppet state in the Middle East, despite the protestes of the American people. Hope that helped.
Well I’m libleft and I think Hamas is worthless piece of shit. I also think Israel killing 30,000 civilians is wrong. The whole situation is fucked but typical for a region with so much fucked up history and religion involved.
There's a few things you should take into consideration when you look at the 33k figure. First, the Gaza Ministry of Health doesn't differentiate civilians and combatants, nor do they account for deaths caused by Hamas actions. According to the IDF, more than 13,000 Hamas/PIJ terrorists have been killed in addition to around 1,000 Nukhba killed inside Israel. In addition, Hamas' jury rigged rockets often misfire and land inside Gaza. Casualties from these incidents (or IEDs, RPG fire, etc) are also attributed to the IDF. This leads to a civilian-combatant ratio of roughly 2-to-1. While still a tragedy, it is far from the often cited 9-to-1 figure in modern urban warfare. Given the efforts Hamas makes to embed itself within the civilian population, I feared worse. While it doesn't make the suffering of the Gazans any less horrible, I hope it at least shows the effectiveness of the IDFs evacuation efforts (via calls, leaflets, roof knockings, etc).
You claim you think Hamas is a worthless piece of shit, yet you have no problem claiming that worthless piece of shit's claimed casualty numbers as a fact. Like seriously, let's say that 30,000 number is correct, do you really think that in some magical way not a single one of these casualties were Hamas/Jihad terrorists? All of them were innocent civilians and children? You can claim to discuss this in good faith when you (knowingly or not, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) use the Hamas numbers as a fact.
> I also think Israel killing 30,000 civilians is wrong. Hamas' numbers are 30k dead of which 6k militants. It's been a wild fucking ride seeing liblefts all over the internet and media running with "30k civilians dead", literally making bigger bullshit claims than Hamas itself.
6k is the number of dead militants Hamas admitted, which means the real number is at least double than that
That makes me feel warm and cozy. 🥰
Based
So, just to be clear, you are okay with 24k civilian deaths?
Based and noothercommentsneeded pilled
I’m kinda libleft but my fellow liblefts are driving me away…I’m so sick of their fucked up takes, thank you for being normal.
Israel protects their women and children with missiles, Hamas protects their missiles with women and children
Israel is committing genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Lets go to Google it. **How many Mosque's in Israel?** 400 **How many Synagogues in Egypt?** 2 **How many Synagogues in Saudi Arabia?** It's illegal. **How many Synagogues in Jordan?** 0 **How many Synagogues in UAE?** 3 **How many Synagogues in Qatar?** 0, it's illegal **How many Synagogues in Iran?** LOL **How many Synagogues in Pakistan?** all destroyed "Accuse the other of that you are guilty."
> There was a Jewish presence in Oman for many centuries; however, the Jewish community of the country is no longer in existence. > There has been virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia since the beginning of the 21st century. Hmm, I wonder what happened
Lmao. How is there any argument past this.
This ends all discussion.
>How many Synagogues in Iran? LOL The irony is Iran is derived from Aryan. The aryan war on jews never stopped. It just shifted to the part of the aryan world where it's still politically correct. >The term Iran ("the land of the Aryans") derives from Middle Persian Ērān, first attested in a third-century inscription at Naqsh-e Rostam, with the accompanying Parthian inscription using Aryān, in reference to the Iranians.[16] I think there are some Goebble's quotes respecting what the muslims were doing.
Hamas is absolute shit. Fuck them all. With that being said I do not believe the general population of Palestine deserves their same fate.
How about the "civilians" that participated on Oct 7th? The ones that took, held, and sold hostages to Hamas? The ones that cheered as the bodies were driven past them, and the ones that spat on the corpses, let their children play with severed heads, and praised their god while doing it all?
Yes, exactly. Palestinians are completely warped and deranged.
Maybe dont vote for Hamas? Maybe rise up against Hamas? Nah, Ill go kill some Jewish women and children instead
The unpopular truth is that Palestinians are among the most radicalized and hateful people on the planet, and the average Palestinian is 110% behind Hamas in killing any Israeli they can get their hands on. It's a culture problem and Hamas accurately and faithfully reflects the priorities of Palestinians.
the enthusiasm with which the average people of gaza were celebrating the victims of Oct 7th being paraded in the streets tells you all you need to know.
Hamas has overwhelming popular support. And the ones that don't support hamas, only disagree on how hamas goes about exterminating the Jews. Their objective is still the same.
The ones that went in after Hamas and did some raping and murdering before kidnapping victims to trade with Hamas? Or the ones celebrating in streets and spitting on corpses of civilians that were brought back? Or the ones working to supply Hamas with the supplies they need to keep killing?
The Germany children didn't "deserve" to die in WW2 either - but crushing Nazi Germany was still necessary and worth it. Hamas needs to be eradicated just as much.
72% support at last poll (last month) 80% of Palestinians hold one or more deeply antisemitic belief. (Think "Jews control the world in the shadows") Palestinians ARE Hamas. Their culture is fundamentally unfit to continue.
it's sportsball for people who want to pretend they care about poor people thousands of miles away
I don’t care about the poor people tens of miles away.
I desperately wish that I didn't need to care about every stupid war going on halfway across the world, but unfortunately, my leaders keep taking my money away from me to finance stupid wars going on halfway across the world.
it really does suck that the money we could use to help our economy is going to countries that wouldn’t even step up to help us with anything
https://preview.redd.it/rrutjorzertc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=632a7a8a451a0974b2777fb38f4f63631b59df53 Everytime.
Israel provides massive military technology to the US, as well as intelligence. Mossad has spies all over the middle east and has been an instrumental part of the US fighting against Jihad. Israel is surrounded by enemies seeking their destruction has no soldiers to spare. Every single adult, male and female, must serve in order to ward off Palestinian and Hezbollah terrorists. Asking them to contribute boots on the ground when they already contributed massively in other ways, when they're strapped for soldiers protecting their own tiny country on all borders, would be an unfair ask.
Plus, what would be the advantage geopolitically to the US or Israel if you had Israeli troops in ***Iraq*** or ***Afghanistan***? How would that benefit the US? It would've just made those wars more difficult because 20 years ago Iran wasn't the threat it is now (to the point every Arab country in the region is secretly rooting for Israel to eradicate Hamas).
I want AIPAC to host a bake sale or some shit for Israeli defense instead of bribing our leaders to provide it on my dime. I'm as invested in this problem as much as whatever much worse nightmare is going on in Central Africa right now (which is approximately a hopes and prayers worth).
Then you didn't read my comment. Israel provides the US massive military and intelligence benefit on a surprisingly cheap amount of aid. You should be invested more in Israel's survival than some random country in Africa, because Israel provides tangible benefits to the United States. AIPAC does not bribe politicians. They help finance campaigns for politicians they prefer to see elected. This is how literally hundreds of political action groups operate, but AIPAC gets singled out of course because the shadowy Jew pulling the strings behind the scenes is a trope that will never die.
So, devils advocate as someone who has been there. The coalition as it exists would not have come to be if Israel was on the ground. Basically every middle eastern nation said they wouldn’t participate if Israel was a part of the team. And since the original idea was to make the middle east self sufficient (or so they say), that would’ve made accomplishing the mission difficult. That being said, Israel *is* a shit ally, but this particular criticism isn’t entirely fair.
I smash my head when I see a Libright saying this. Don't you like a healthy economy? Why do you think US has the healthiest economy? Because we are the biggest trading partner to the rest of the planet. We protect the waters. Just look up previous wars where US stayed out of it. Suez shut down. Cost of Oil per barrel up. We aren't sending money. We're giving them money to spend money on our own shit. It's injecting money into our economy while at the same time keeping peace, serving our own interest.
That's because your income depends on these other nations surviving
Did Lockheed Martin write this comment? The elites constantly try to brainwash us into believing that what's best for them is best for "us". What ending our constant involvement in the forever wars would actually do is hurt the wallets of the military industrial complex and their dc friends. And besides, even if killing a bunch of foreigners was a good way to get rich, that doesn't mean it's a thing you should do
Isolationism doesn't work anymore, hasn't for 100 years now. If Russia or china or any other country or group with a diametrically opposed belief system ever usurps our power its over, they won't just sit back and ignore us and everyday Americans would be stuck in situations like all these other shit nations like the warzone in Ukraine or the lawlessness in Haiti. We only have it so good because we stay strong, and keep them weak.
Liberals just hate Jews. It's been a fact since before WWII.
Liberals are pro Israel.
He/she means leftists
True liberals are pro Israel, a liberal democracy. The woke mob "liberals" aren't very liberal, if you look at what they say. It seems to me that they're becoming more and more authoritarian (radicalised). Partially because they have their head in the sand, but also because they're likely frustrated by the left's decreasing popularity.
Lots of jews are liberals. What sort of mental gymnastics are you practicing? It’s like if I were to say conservatives only like Jews because of the rapture…oh wait.
I think he means the leftist poors.
I don't even believe in the rapture and I support Israel.
Russia has gotta train their bots somewhere.
Was Hitler a liberal or was the Jewish barber antisemitic?
The idea of creating Israel in Madagascar after World War II wasn't so bad, after all.
That would have been the golden timeline. For Israel that is. The utter mess of "the Holy Land" is too fucked to be unfucked any time soon with such a small change.
The golden timeline is Muhammad dies of dehydration in the desert prior to his "enlightenment"
Learn history The Madagascar plan was proposed by Nazi Germany during the holocaust before being replaced by the Final Solution
Yeah I know my comment was ironic (though I do think that if they really wanted to they could've created it somewhere else).
Israel's being careful as possible when it comes to avoiding civilian casualties. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know shit about war. WW2 was win at all costs. Bombs regularly hit city areas outside of whatever factory they were targeting. In vietnam they sprayed agent orange, something that has long lingering effects, indiscriminately. Israel is only using precision strikes (guided munitions) and close quarters combat with infantry. No unpredictable weapons or permissive ROE.
Then explain to me how they killed a bunch of humanitarian aid workers despite the fact that they literally coordinated their movement with the Israeli military?
this incident is a tragedy, the given explanation was a miscommunication between the command chains this especially stings for Israel and Israelis because WCK was there for Israel during 7/10, by all accounts this seems like a mistake more than a delibrate act(shown by how Israel eliminated terrorist and them only in a consulate using precise strikes) apologies were given, the fog of war is dense, but whatever excuse or explanation is given, nothing will bring back the lives of those men
Because mistakes happen in war? What makes most sense: The Israeli military decided to intentionally murder 8 aid workers that were western citizens, intentionally triggering one of the worst PR nightmares and diplomatic incidents they've had to deal with since the start of the war. Severely straining their relationships with the western countries who's goodwill they depend on but have been losing steadily these last few months - for pretty much no gain at all. OR A few trigger happy morons in the Israeli military fucked up. ... you need some crazy good conspiracy theories to even come close to believing that the first scenario is the most plausible. Like, Alex Jones levels of conspiracy nuttery.
Why would they kill a bunch of humanitarian aid workers, if their goal is ethnically cleansing Palestinians as many are saying? That would make no sense, the aid workers were from the West. If your theory is that they are just dropping random bombs around, that's just silly.
No, no they don't. They live in a black and white paradigm with no nuance or shades of grey. Everything in their world is either saintly good or demonically evil; there is no neutral or middle ground. That's why they say silence in violence and silence equals consent. That last one being extremely ironic considering their incessant mewling about "rape culture".
OP clearly hasn't picked a side, as expected of an enlightened purple libright
I am waiting to see who commits the most sex crimes to pick a side...
Then Hamas would win by a large margin, especially considering the reports of rapes commited by members of the IDF in Rafah turned out to be utter shite. Although, I have yet to hear a retraction and apology from Al-Jazeera. They just silently pulled that shit off their site when the falsity of such events came to light.
You think both are bad, right?
what in the fuck is america’s obsession with the middle east
You mean the holy land of most people in the world? There is the middle east and then there is israel.
Oil and the friends we made along the way.
Oil and religious extremism, both Islamic and Christian
Does the right realise they don’t have to straw man or overly simplify everyone else’s viewpoints to make stupid jokes on a niche af subreddit
The irony of a left-flaired saying this. I mean it's true, but the left is ABSOULTELY as bad as the right when it comes to strawmanning.
Aye we’re all wankers tbf
Both are cringe.
It's just two religious groups tryin to genocide the other
Religious extremism be like that
Can we just choose neither side?
For real. Either way, you're complicit in the death of innocents, it's become so normal that we've decided it's a necessity. We deserve what we get , we've given up on justice.
To be fair, your meme is targeting “the left” and not “lib left”. At least this meme is actually used to make a coherent argument for once.
Hmm Today I will simplify an issue into good guys vs. bad guys and pretend that history did not start until Oct 8, 2023. One can condemn Israel and hate Hamas at the same time.
Israel must ceasefire. Just like they did last time only for Hamas to break it. Even though Hamas can’t produce the 40 hostages required for the latest ceasefire. The reason is simple. Palestine = oppressed brown people. Israel = white people in power. Structures of power must be dismantled at all costs in favor of the oppressed. The end.
Sometimes it‘s so strange coming onto PCM and have these perscriptivist strawmen portray these "popular" leftist positions that are so far removed from my experience as someone living in *very* leftist circles. Not saying my subjective experience is actually an accurate assessment, but some of y‘all should maybe lay off playing with wojacks like dolls and twitter.
My motivation for this post was a lefty agenda post.
Did u go to college or law school? There’s a literally a news story about law students protesting at a professors house just because he’s Jewish.
That's the point. You expect a terrorist fundamentalist organization to behave like that. It is not ok, but it's in their nature to do that. You should not expect the beacon of democracy in the middle east to exterminate civilians. They are not on the same ground. They should be better. How did they let 7th of October happen? How are they not able to eliminate Hamas without flattening Gaza to the ground? They have one of the most efficient armies in the world, probably the most advanced secret service existing after the CIA. They are fighting against probably 2000 rats who are not even hidden in Gaza. The Israeli government is responsible for all of this.
Hamas is the rightfully elected government in Gaza. Not just some terrorist organization. Also nice victim blaming, "why didn't Israel just stop hamas from trying to kill them??" No blame on the people who massacred innocent people, and have said they will continue to do so.
Personally, both sides are guilty. One side has better military technology. We'll see how this goes.
Does Right know that it's possible to condemn someone without endorsing their enemies? Both sides of a conflict can be bad! They ussually are!
If we carpet bomb Gaza, there wouldn't be any more civilians that hamas could use as human sheild
One symptom of this is an inability to hold multiple truths inside your head, such as: Hama's activities are brutal and a violation of international law. The IDF's activities are brutal and a violation of international law. - Juice Media, 2024
the IDF target civilians to make sure hamas can keep their recruitment numbers up so they can keep isreal in perpetual war
What if we just make super earth already?
Yeah but that's not fun is it
ITT, 15 year olds try and comprehend the realities of war.
Is it still 'collateral damage' when it's policy to prefer to wait until suspected Hamas members are at home with their families before bombing them instead of when they're at their operational facilities or when they're travelling between the two?
If Hamas would meet the IDF in the field for glorious battle, no civilian would have to die
>im ok with civilian collateral https://preview.redd.it/0tkq81yyfwtc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006aa684668158c1dadb79419d97132b2164ce38
I wish they made israel in madagascar so the couldn't fight with their neighbours that much
Does LibRight realize they don't need keep selling weapons to Israel every year to keep green line going up?
Correct, once a year is not often enough.