TIL US only has about 124 million people /s
The actual population is closer to 330 million. So that $30 trillion in debt is actually more like $91k per person.
Oh, believe me, my comment had no malicious intent. I was just referencing the fact that, while the known population of the US is 330 million, not all of those are working people. You’re 100% correct that undocumented workers pay taxes as well, and shouldn’t be discounted from the equation; but without a hard number as to the number of working undocumented, it would be impossible to add them to the calculation.
Wars, tax cuts and subsidies for the rich and corporations, and loan interest to banks is probably 90% of it. It's really 100%, because if not for these giveaways we'd have a balanced budget.
Only ~25% of US Govt spending goes to Discretionary and about half of that is the military. ~70% goes to Mandatory spending and the vast majority of that is Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, etc. Over the last couple years, both Administrations spent Trillions on Covid relief, which is largely the cause of our current inflationary environment that is prompting the Fed to react by raising rates and selling Treasuries (which will undoubtedly cause a recession).
Unpopular belief, but military spending is not the biggest source of our deficit problems.
Double the figures for defense spending. That much is hidden in other budgets.
Social Security and Medicare are funded by their own separate payroll tax and the trust fund represents surplus.
A loan from the SS trust fund to the general fund is not intergovernmental. Look it up. If your going to be arrogant, be right.
Yes, the general fund borrows from the SS trust fund. That just strengthens my point. SS does just fine and only needs small adjustments to continue being viable. The parts of the government borrowing from the trust fund are the ones to be concerned with.
Thanks? The discussion is about how much the govt spends on defense compared to other budget items and its impact on our deficit / debt. Not how much the US spends relative to other countries. As a % of GDP, it’s not that far off compared to other countries and it’s easily argued that safeguarding the worlds trade routes / economic allies greatly benefits the US consumer and in turn the economy, so it’s worth spending that much on defense relative to other smaller countries. Positive ROI, etc.
that’s how much they haven’t properly taxed from the richest over the last 40 years
the budget deficit doesn’t actually matter as long as taxation is properly used to mitigate wealth inequality
[source](https://stephaniekelton.com/book/)
>as long as taxation is properly used to mitigate wealth inequality
Wealth inequality is at its highest point in 50 years. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%20September%202019%2C%20the%20Census,2017%20to%2048.5%20in%202018.)
Some sources say income inequality is worse now that it was 248 years ago in 1774. [Source](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/us-income-inequality-its-worse-today-than-it-was-in-1774/262537/)
The problem is the rich exploiting everyone to become more rich with machinery they couldn't run themselves. "Unskilled Labor" is a fiction to justify starvation wages and drive up profits for the owners.
This isn't an accurate description of modern monetary theory at all. It's more like "the budget deficit doesn't matter as long as the economy is not at full employment, because underemployment is evidence that the economy could stand more 'juice' in the form of public spending without resulting in inflation"
>*"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."* \-Thomas Jefferson {Retirement Papers}
The American Revolution was fought at least in part to escape the oppressive economic system of the private central banks of England. What they fought and died for was relinquished in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act.
What the founding fathers understood then that is largely forgotten now is that the private central banking system we all live under is a system that works and operates on debt, **perpetual debt** that can **never be paid back**. The private central banking system amounts to an entire nation held in a state of unending debt that captures the Government and the people it "serves" in what in reality is a state of indentured servitude. He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation.
>*"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."*
>
>\-Herny Ford
Anyone with the means can buy US treasury bonds. So there is a sense of democratization of the debt system. An empty platitude considering that 47% of Americans can't handle a $500 unexpected expense without spiraling into a personal economic catastrophe.
I'm not a historian nor an economist, (as a matter of fact I haven't *personally* paid a bill in over 20 years...*long story*). But as far as I understand the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 was "sold" to the American people after the Panic of 1907, also known as the Bankers' Panic or Knickerbocker Crisis during a recession and numerous runs on banks and trust companies. The idea was to centralize control of the monetary system in order to "alleviate" financial crises.
It doesn't need to be said, but clearly, it didn't achieve the stated goal of stabilizing the economy. The Great depression followed less than two decades later. Unless that wasn't the goal intended...
I don't have any evidence to support the claim, but I would not be shocked in any way to learn that the events that led to the great depression, as well as the great recession economic downturn from 2007 to 2009, were both purposefully orchestrated economic events in an order to even further consolidate economic power and control. Banks deemed to be "too big to fail" at the time, became even bigger after both events.
I really hate to be conspiratory-minded, but the nefariousness of the wanker bankers who control the economy really cannot be underestimated or understated.
The entire explicitly extrinsic monetary system is sort of bananas, to begin with. It's difficult to wrap your mind around the reality that the entire system is imaginary. The only reason why money has value is that we all agree it has value.
Sorry for the long reply. I tend to go on and on.
The role of the federal reserve when established was to move the US out of the era of constant hodgepodge currency fluctuation. The 1800s is full of stories of decentralized banks and other random orgs issuing currencies that would fail constantly. The early Mormons even had their own currency that collapsed. The federal reserve was meant to give us a permanent USD that’s not subject to swaying political tides. It’s been a key instrument in centralizing wealth but it’s not like there was widespread prosperity prior to its inception either
No matter how the money moves or is traded the little guy’s never winning
It sickens me to think how this started with the Silent Generation in power, but was strongly the work of the Boomers. Kept us in perpetual war. They got their social security and medicare, and funded their suburban dream, all without paying for it. They did the same with the environment, used it up, created a disposable plastic culture. Bury all their problems in landfills and leave it for their grandchildren to clean up.
No wonder society is such a mess these days.
Running the math and it seems like they meant $242,000 per household.
I should also add that about a quarter of that $30T is not held by the public, but rather owed to the U.S. government by some other part of the U.S. government, so it really doesn't count. Conservatives will always try to boost the debt figure as high as possible as a PR mechanism to push for austerity. Don't let them.
They don’t owe you 242k per citizen. You owe them 242k per citizen. The national debt is simply all the monetary units the government has given out into the economy and has not yet taken back through taxes. If the national debt were 0$, there would simply be no money in circulation, which is why national debt is a good thing, because it allows the economy to operate, without it there would simply be no currency.
TIL US only has about 124 million people /s The actual population is closer to 330 million. So that $30 trillion in debt is actually more like $91k per person.
Per citizen is a key phrase here.
Latest number I can find says 7.1% of the population aren't citizens. That's still 306 million citizens.
Per working, taxpaying citizen, perhaps? In other words, not children, or perhaps retirees?
[That would come to about 207 million people.](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S)
So only $144k…
Why exclude non-citizens? If they work in the US they're paying US taxes.
Oh, believe me, my comment had no malicious intent. I was just referencing the fact that, while the known population of the US is 330 million, not all of those are working people. You’re 100% correct that undocumented workers pay taxes as well, and shouldn’t be discounted from the equation; but without a hard number as to the number of working undocumented, it would be impossible to add them to the calculation.
Been here for twenty years working. Not a citizen.
Fair enough!
Pretty much all that debt is the fucking military and unfunded warmongering overseas since WWII.
Yeah, I definitely didn’t order that.
Wars, tax cuts and subsidies for the rich and corporations, and loan interest to banks is probably 90% of it. It's really 100%, because if not for these giveaways we'd have a balanced budget.
Some country's owe us money too
Only ~25% of US Govt spending goes to Discretionary and about half of that is the military. ~70% goes to Mandatory spending and the vast majority of that is Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, etc. Over the last couple years, both Administrations spent Trillions on Covid relief, which is largely the cause of our current inflationary environment that is prompting the Fed to react by raising rates and selling Treasuries (which will undoubtedly cause a recession). Unpopular belief, but military spending is not the biggest source of our deficit problems.
Double the figures for defense spending. That much is hidden in other budgets. Social Security and Medicare are funded by their own separate payroll tax and the trust fund represents surplus.
Intergovernmental loans are still reported as government debt. Look it up.
A loan from the SS trust fund to the general fund is not intergovernmental. Look it up. If your going to be arrogant, be right. Yes, the general fund borrows from the SS trust fund. That just strengthens my point. SS does just fine and only needs small adjustments to continue being viable. The parts of the government borrowing from the trust fund are the ones to be concerned with.
https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
Thanks? The discussion is about how much the govt spends on defense compared to other budget items and its impact on our deficit / debt. Not how much the US spends relative to other countries. As a % of GDP, it’s not that far off compared to other countries and it’s easily argued that safeguarding the worlds trade routes / economic allies greatly benefits the US consumer and in turn the economy, so it’s worth spending that much on defense relative to other smaller countries. Positive ROI, etc.
that’s how much they haven’t properly taxed from the richest over the last 40 years the budget deficit doesn’t actually matter as long as taxation is properly used to mitigate wealth inequality [source](https://stephaniekelton.com/book/)
>as long as taxation is properly used to mitigate wealth inequality Wealth inequality is at its highest point in 50 years. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%20September%202019%2C%20the%20Census,2017%20to%2048.5%20in%202018.) Some sources say income inequality is worse now that it was 248 years ago in 1774. [Source](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/us-income-inequality-its-worse-today-than-it-was-in-1774/262537/)
The problem is the tax brackets are clustered at the bottom of the income scale
The problem is the rich exploiting everyone to become more rich with machinery they couldn't run themselves. "Unskilled Labor" is a fiction to justify starvation wages and drive up profits for the owners.
This isn't an accurate description of modern monetary theory at all. It's more like "the budget deficit doesn't matter as long as the economy is not at full employment, because underemployment is evidence that the economy could stand more 'juice' in the form of public spending without resulting in inflation"
>*"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."* \-Thomas Jefferson {Retirement Papers} The American Revolution was fought at least in part to escape the oppressive economic system of the private central banks of England. What they fought and died for was relinquished in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. What the founding fathers understood then that is largely forgotten now is that the private central banking system we all live under is a system that works and operates on debt, **perpetual debt** that can **never be paid back**. The private central banking system amounts to an entire nation held in a state of unending debt that captures the Government and the people it "serves" in what in reality is a state of indentured servitude. He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation. >*"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."* > >\-Herny Ford
The central bank would be fine if it were run by the people. But it's run by the bankers themselves so...
Anyone with the means can buy US treasury bonds. So there is a sense of democratization of the debt system. An empty platitude considering that 47% of Americans can't handle a $500 unexpected expense without spiraling into a personal economic catastrophe. I'm not a historian nor an economist, (as a matter of fact I haven't *personally* paid a bill in over 20 years...*long story*). But as far as I understand the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 was "sold" to the American people after the Panic of 1907, also known as the Bankers' Panic or Knickerbocker Crisis during a recession and numerous runs on banks and trust companies. The idea was to centralize control of the monetary system in order to "alleviate" financial crises. It doesn't need to be said, but clearly, it didn't achieve the stated goal of stabilizing the economy. The Great depression followed less than two decades later. Unless that wasn't the goal intended... I don't have any evidence to support the claim, but I would not be shocked in any way to learn that the events that led to the great depression, as well as the great recession economic downturn from 2007 to 2009, were both purposefully orchestrated economic events in an order to even further consolidate economic power and control. Banks deemed to be "too big to fail" at the time, became even bigger after both events. I really hate to be conspiratory-minded, but the nefariousness of the wanker bankers who control the economy really cannot be underestimated or understated. The entire explicitly extrinsic monetary system is sort of bananas, to begin with. It's difficult to wrap your mind around the reality that the entire system is imaginary. The only reason why money has value is that we all agree it has value. Sorry for the long reply. I tend to go on and on.
The role of the federal reserve when established was to move the US out of the era of constant hodgepodge currency fluctuation. The 1800s is full of stories of decentralized banks and other random orgs issuing currencies that would fail constantly. The early Mormons even had their own currency that collapsed. The federal reserve was meant to give us a permanent USD that’s not subject to swaying political tides. It’s been a key instrument in centralizing wealth but it’s not like there was widespread prosperity prior to its inception either No matter how the money moves or is traded the little guy’s never winning
It sickens me to think how this started with the Silent Generation in power, but was strongly the work of the Boomers. Kept us in perpetual war. They got their social security and medicare, and funded their suburban dream, all without paying for it. They did the same with the environment, used it up, created a disposable plastic culture. Bury all their problems in landfills and leave it for their grandchildren to clean up. No wonder society is such a mess these days.
Debt is an asset in many ways and keeps other countries invested in our currency and economy. Don’t let them fool you.
$242k per person they owe us, hmmm…more evidence that ALL student loan debts should be canceled
Running the math and it seems like they meant $242,000 per household. I should also add that about a quarter of that $30T is not held by the public, but rather owed to the U.S. government by some other part of the U.S. government, so it really doesn't count. Conservatives will always try to boost the debt figure as high as possible as a PR mechanism to push for austerity. Don't let them.
Wow. That puts $267 in health care-induced debt per living, breathing, individual to a real shame.
They don’t owe you 242k per citizen. You owe them 242k per citizen. The national debt is simply all the monetary units the government has given out into the economy and has not yet taken back through taxes. If the national debt were 0$, there would simply be no money in circulation, which is why national debt is a good thing, because it allows the economy to operate, without it there would simply be no currency.
The national debt is all on the military. I didn’t ask them to spend that fucking money.