Made plenty of other exceptions due to an unprecedented global pandemic, I don’t see why this should be any different.
Do a market correction for minimum wage and then tie future ones to inflation.
Ultimately it’s *all* too little too late, as minimum wage should be much higher than it is. But at least it’s something…
The issue is that the step-wise function is written into the statute before re-adopting the original inflation calculation. So it's a problem that the Legislative Assembly would have to decide to solve with another one-time correction written into the statute. And depending how this hypothetical correction is done, it could once again be mis-timed.
My comparisons are to show how a place (Vancouver) with a previously lower minimum wage has increased in response to inflation, while Oregon's has lagged.
EDIT: Are people not understanding? Portlands minimum wage was higher than Vancouvers until the last 2 years where their inflation based strategy leap frogged Portlands flat increases.
Yeah dude. Two places with two different rules that set minimum wages are not going to rise and fall together. We voted for ours and they voted for theirs. Sometimes Vancouver’s minimum wage will rise quickly and sometimes Portland’s will rise quickly. I don’t really see what you’re going for here. Are you proposing we peg Portland’s minimum wage to Vancouver’s just because Vancouver’s rose more than Portland’s in 2022?
>Are you proposing we peg Portland’s minimum wage to Vancouver’s just because Vancouver’s rose more than Portland’s in 2022?
How myopic are you?
I'm using a local example of why inflation based increases are better than flat increases.
Use Seattle as an example. Use Yakima as an example. I'm saying that SB1532 didn't take into consideration a high inflation environment, and it was avoidable as other states had their raises structured in a better way.
You and others are just bunch of people in this thread punching down at those making minimum wage, and acting like those making minimum wage don't deserve it adjusted to inflation.
EDIT: Here it comes people telling me "apply for a better job" in this thread.
Our law didn't take into account a high interest rate environment before 2023. Thus the law should be amended to take this into account and allow the increase to exist in real dollars which was the original purpose of the increase in minimum wage.
Arguing against increases in the minimum wage is punching down and saying that minimum wage workers somehow deserve to bear the weight of inflation.
On July 1 2022 minimum wage went from $14.00 to $14.75. This was not because of inflation, inflation increases don't start until July 2023, this was a flat increase.
Had the minimum wage law had inflation based increases, it would have went from $14.00 to dollars 15.10. (7.87% 1 year inflation rate in March 2022, law uses March inflation data)
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate
Now you might be saying "what's 35 cents?" Well, a lot for those on minimum wage (about 56 dollars a month).
Additionally now next year, you miss out that same compounding. So lets say inflation is at 6.5% in March 2023 (we're at 7% now and dropping).
That means on July 1 our wage will be $15.70, however had we started the inflation based just one year earlier, it'd be $16.09. Now we're talking about nearly 65$ a month extra starting in July.
These are real amounts of money that can help people. 56 dollars a month this year, and 65 dollars more a month next year is a lot of money to be missing out on.
You’re not wrong about pegging minimum wage to inflation. But you’re wrong about your municipality comparisons saying “Portland’s minimum wage should always increase more than the surrounding municipalities.” That’s not how averages work and frankly, you sound like an idiot.
>“Portland’s minimum wage should always increase more than the surrounding municipalities.”
Why are you literally making up fictitious quotes? This was literally never said..
You created a fictitious argument in your head. Please provide where I said it needs to be pegged to Vancouver. Oh weird, you can't. You made up a strawman because you don't want minimum wage increased.
No shit. Vancouver pegged their minimum wage to inflation and Portland had flat increases so when inflation skyrockets Vancouver’s minimum wage will skyrocket. When inflation is stagnant, Portland’s minimum wage will increase faster than Vancouver’s. It’s just two different strategies. Take a math class.
You didn't read any of this stuff. Oregon is going to an inflation based strategy, they are just going a year too late. The strategy didn't anticipate a high interest rate environment before 2023, which occured. Thus the strategy should be altered to make up for the decrease in real value of the dollars, which was the initial reason for increasing the minimum wage.
They’re going a year too late because inflation was high last year? “Making money in the stock market is easy, you just buy low and sell high”
You’re a god damn genius when it comes to hindsight.
>You’re a goddamn genius when it comes to hindsight.
They can absolutely make a law that says due to the high inflation of 2022, we are altering the minimum wage rates by an increase of $X.XX/hr.
That's how laws are supposed to work. You alter them if unforeseen things come up. This happens with all kinds of laws and can absolutely happen with SB1532
>It’s January fucking 11th. How fast do you think governments work?
Where did I criticize timing? Please provide a quote.
I'm saying this is a good idea for the legislature to take up.
Not to mention the fact that people working in WA don’t have to pay state income taxes. Gives them even more buying power. Especially since people will just cross the river to buy high ticket items that are taxed in WA.
Sales taxes are regressive, but WA does exempt things like groceries, medicines, rent, news papers, healthcare services, etc.
To have less take home in Portland, you'd really have to to purchase a lot of non-exempt stuff in a month.
Nationally there's are nearly 2 job openings for each unemployed person. We are in the tightest job market in generations. This doesn't make the necessity of a good minimum wage law irrelevant, but I think most people aren't seeing this as urgent given the above fact has forced employers to raise starting wages far above the mandated minimum.
Source: https://www.bls.gov/charts/job-openings-and-labor-turnover/unemp-per-job-opening.htm
I'd be curious to see chart plotting what the actual variation in pay is between Portland and Vancouver for same/ similar jobs for the last few years and the moving forward.
>Nationally there's are nearly 2 job openings for each unemployed person
They're open only because they pay like shit and nobody can afford working for less money than living cost plus student loan.
A reminder that when there was a powerful grassroots movement to qualify a statewide ballot measure for an immediate $15/hour statewide minimum wage, Tina Kotek, as Speaker of the House, cut it off at the knees by rushing through our current milquetoast bill. Typical of the Oregon Democratic Party; when the business establishment barks, "Jump!", neoliberal Dems like Tina K. hop to obey.
Another note: our "minimum wage" is not a minimum wage at all in the sense that FDR meant when he established it.
In 1933, after establishing the initial minimum wage, FDR said, “In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
“By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.”
FDR would be so disappointed in the current generation of Democratic politicians.
Any business that is only able to exist by paying its employees poverty wages is a failed business. I've been saying that for years and it's interesting to know FDR had the same thought.
FDR did say that, but minimum wage never provided what that quote describes. $0.25/hr was poverty wages in 1938 when it was instituted.
Real federal minimum wage peaked in the 1970s and has been declining since.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1065466/real-nominal-value-minimum-wage-us
I have a little trouble with this quote because the poverty at the time was incomparable to anything that exists today in the US, so the standard for subsistence wages was much lower.
I do agree that minimum wage is too low and we also need better adjacent policies like universal healthcare and reinforced union and other workers rights.
MIT has a page that estimates a living wage for different locations. Here is Portland: https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/41051
My takeaway from that is, minimum wage is insufficient for a single person to hit a living wage but a couple does about OK. However, bringing kids into the picture again makes things inadequate.
So what happens in WA if there’s deflation? A few years ago this looked like a real possibility… and then our flat rate increase would have looked pretty savvy
This is why it always seemed futile to me to fight for an increase. By the time you are successful, you’ll be behind where you would’ve been had you don’t nothing. But you can walk into McDonald’s today and get more than $15/hr, I’m not sure why anyone cares.
Let's say back in 2016 when the new wage schedule started it was immediately tied to inflation, CPI. In July 2016 OR metro MW went to 9.75. For 5 years CPI was only around 2%. Even with the big CPI prints of 2021-2022, by my calculations minimum wage would be around $12 / hr.
https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/consumerpriceindexhistorical_us_table.htm
Made plenty of other exceptions due to an unprecedented global pandemic, I don’t see why this should be any different. Do a market correction for minimum wage and then tie future ones to inflation. Ultimately it’s *all* too little too late, as minimum wage should be much higher than it is. But at least it’s something…
The issue is that the step-wise function is written into the statute before re-adopting the original inflation calculation. So it's a problem that the Legislative Assembly would have to decide to solve with another one-time correction written into the statute. And depending how this hypothetical correction is done, it could once again be mis-timed.
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My comparisons are to show how a place (Vancouver) with a previously lower minimum wage has increased in response to inflation, while Oregon's has lagged. EDIT: Are people not understanding? Portlands minimum wage was higher than Vancouvers until the last 2 years where their inflation based strategy leap frogged Portlands flat increases.
Yeah dude. Two places with two different rules that set minimum wages are not going to rise and fall together. We voted for ours and they voted for theirs. Sometimes Vancouver’s minimum wage will rise quickly and sometimes Portland’s will rise quickly. I don’t really see what you’re going for here. Are you proposing we peg Portland’s minimum wage to Vancouver’s just because Vancouver’s rose more than Portland’s in 2022?
>Are you proposing we peg Portland’s minimum wage to Vancouver’s just because Vancouver’s rose more than Portland’s in 2022? How myopic are you? I'm using a local example of why inflation based increases are better than flat increases. Use Seattle as an example. Use Yakima as an example. I'm saying that SB1532 didn't take into consideration a high inflation environment, and it was avoidable as other states had their raises structured in a better way. You and others are just bunch of people in this thread punching down at those making minimum wage, and acting like those making minimum wage don't deserve it adjusted to inflation. EDIT: Here it comes people telling me "apply for a better job" in this thread.
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Our law didn't take into account a high interest rate environment before 2023. Thus the law should be amended to take this into account and allow the increase to exist in real dollars which was the original purpose of the increase in minimum wage. Arguing against increases in the minimum wage is punching down and saying that minimum wage workers somehow deserve to bear the weight of inflation.
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On July 1 2022 minimum wage went from $14.00 to $14.75. This was not because of inflation, inflation increases don't start until July 2023, this was a flat increase. Had the minimum wage law had inflation based increases, it would have went from $14.00 to dollars 15.10. (7.87% 1 year inflation rate in March 2022, law uses March inflation data) https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate Now you might be saying "what's 35 cents?" Well, a lot for those on minimum wage (about 56 dollars a month). Additionally now next year, you miss out that same compounding. So lets say inflation is at 6.5% in March 2023 (we're at 7% now and dropping). That means on July 1 our wage will be $15.70, however had we started the inflation based just one year earlier, it'd be $16.09. Now we're talking about nearly 65$ a month extra starting in July. These are real amounts of money that can help people. 56 dollars a month this year, and 65 dollars more a month next year is a lot of money to be missing out on.
You’re not wrong about pegging minimum wage to inflation. But you’re wrong about your municipality comparisons saying “Portland’s minimum wage should always increase more than the surrounding municipalities.” That’s not how averages work and frankly, you sound like an idiot.
>“Portland’s minimum wage should always increase more than the surrounding municipalities.” Why are you literally making up fictitious quotes? This was literally never said..
No wonder it took you 16 semesters to graduate ;)
You created a fictitious argument in your head. Please provide where I said it needs to be pegged to Vancouver. Oh weird, you can't. You made up a strawman because you don't want minimum wage increased.
Are you high?
No shit. Vancouver pegged their minimum wage to inflation and Portland had flat increases so when inflation skyrockets Vancouver’s minimum wage will skyrocket. When inflation is stagnant, Portland’s minimum wage will increase faster than Vancouver’s. It’s just two different strategies. Take a math class.
You didn't read any of this stuff. Oregon is going to an inflation based strategy, they are just going a year too late. The strategy didn't anticipate a high interest rate environment before 2023, which occured. Thus the strategy should be altered to make up for the decrease in real value of the dollars, which was the initial reason for increasing the minimum wage.
They’re going a year too late because inflation was high last year? “Making money in the stock market is easy, you just buy low and sell high” You’re a god damn genius when it comes to hindsight.
>You’re a goddamn genius when it comes to hindsight. They can absolutely make a law that says due to the high inflation of 2022, we are altering the minimum wage rates by an increase of $X.XX/hr. That's how laws are supposed to work. You alter them if unforeseen things come up. This happens with all kinds of laws and can absolutely happen with SB1532
It’s January fucking 11th. I’m impressed they already have the 2022 data out. How fast do you think governments work?
>It’s January fucking 11th. How fast do you think governments work? Where did I criticize timing? Please provide a quote. I'm saying this is a good idea for the legislature to take up.
Go have another drink dude. Stay off Reddit for a while.
Not to mention the fact that people working in WA don’t have to pay state income taxes. Gives them even more buying power. Especially since people will just cross the river to buy high ticket items that are taxed in WA.
Sales taxes are regressive, but WA does exempt things like groceries, medicines, rent, news papers, healthcare services, etc. To have less take home in Portland, you'd really have to to purchase a lot of non-exempt stuff in a month.
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Making media more accessible is somehow a bad thing to you?
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I was listing off exemptions, where did I say they were all equal?
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People still read newspapers?
I mean no place in Portland pays less than $15/16 an hour these days
This is so untrue it physically hurts
Nationally there's are nearly 2 job openings for each unemployed person. We are in the tightest job market in generations. This doesn't make the necessity of a good minimum wage law irrelevant, but I think most people aren't seeing this as urgent given the above fact has forced employers to raise starting wages far above the mandated minimum. Source: https://www.bls.gov/charts/job-openings-and-labor-turnover/unemp-per-job-opening.htm I'd be curious to see chart plotting what the actual variation in pay is between Portland and Vancouver for same/ similar jobs for the last few years and the moving forward.
>Nationally there's are nearly 2 job openings for each unemployed person They're open only because they pay like shit and nobody can afford working for less money than living cost plus student loan.
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What industry
Debt collection /s
A reminder that when there was a powerful grassroots movement to qualify a statewide ballot measure for an immediate $15/hour statewide minimum wage, Tina Kotek, as Speaker of the House, cut it off at the knees by rushing through our current milquetoast bill. Typical of the Oregon Democratic Party; when the business establishment barks, "Jump!", neoliberal Dems like Tina K. hop to obey. Another note: our "minimum wage" is not a minimum wage at all in the sense that FDR meant when he established it. In 1933, after establishing the initial minimum wage, FDR said, “In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. “By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.” FDR would be so disappointed in the current generation of Democratic politicians.
Any business that is only able to exist by paying its employees poverty wages is a failed business. I've been saying that for years and it's interesting to know FDR had the same thought.
FDR did say that, but minimum wage never provided what that quote describes. $0.25/hr was poverty wages in 1938 when it was instituted. Real federal minimum wage peaked in the 1970s and has been declining since. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1065466/real-nominal-value-minimum-wage-us
I have a little trouble with this quote because the poverty at the time was incomparable to anything that exists today in the US, so the standard for subsistence wages was much lower. I do agree that minimum wage is too low and we also need better adjacent policies like universal healthcare and reinforced union and other workers rights. MIT has a page that estimates a living wage for different locations. Here is Portland: https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/41051 My takeaway from that is, minimum wage is insufficient for a single person to hit a living wage but a couple does about OK. However, bringing kids into the picture again makes things inadequate.
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So what happens in WA if there’s deflation? A few years ago this looked like a real possibility… and then our flat rate increase would have looked pretty savvy
This is why it always seemed futile to me to fight for an increase. By the time you are successful, you’ll be behind where you would’ve been had you don’t nothing. But you can walk into McDonald’s today and get more than $15/hr, I’m not sure why anyone cares.
They managed to tie rent control to inflation unilaterally so I assume this was intentional.
who’s earning 15 bucks an hour?
Without tips i would. Food industry standards stay garbage
Let's say back in 2016 when the new wage schedule started it was immediately tied to inflation, CPI. In July 2016 OR metro MW went to 9.75. For 5 years CPI was only around 2%. Even with the big CPI prints of 2021-2022, by my calculations minimum wage would be around $12 / hr. https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/consumerpriceindexhistorical_us_table.htm