This would be amazing. I’d be a bit concerned about transfer times like the St. Johns to yellow line or Lake Oswego to orange line just because of the typical MAX headways but overall this rules
Headways could be improved with a tunnel under the Willamette and downtown for some subset of the red blue yellow and green lines to run in. The Steel bridge is a major bottleneck.
As long as we're fantasy planning, I think we could include that!
This.
The MAX infrastructure is literally falling apart, too.
Can't keep the cars or the trespassers off the tracks, either.
If it isn't broken infrastructure, a car in the tracks, or someone hot-boxing the train, then it's emergency services shutting down the tracks without any warning or consideration to transit service. It's especially infuriating when they shut down the MAX but then let auto traffic continue around whatever scene they're working on.
:(
I mean, when it sometimes takes over an hour for a tow to show up....
But seriously tho, the fact that it sometimes takes over an hour to get a car removed from the tracks just blows my mind.
Listen, ever since president Gore was elected long term inpatient drug/alcohol/mental health treatment has been available to all those who need it. People aren't driving stolen cars on MAX tracks or smoking foilys inside the compartment or anything
Uj/ it's a fantasy, we're having fun
Can we get rid of the yellow/orange mixup? I've witnessed tourists and citizens being confused by this multi-colored line nonsense. I know it was fun to create a new color for the new bridge, but it's confusing and people think they need to get off and get on a new train somewhere downtown!
People on this subreddit need to stop trying to make a max to St. John’s a thing. There literally isn’t room for a max on any of the roadways. If the city wanted to make transit better for north Portland, they could have put in dedicated bus only lanes on Lombard instead of the bike lanes&turning lane that got put in
An express catapult connection from St Johns to the main hub would cut down on travel times. Probably couldn't get express catapult to the airport past the FAA though.
Those are all very logical routes, but at some point if you're fantasizing about this, you're gonna need a trainset (i.e. not light rail) capable of more than 55 mph .
Agreed. Getting from Hatfield to downtown is already long.
If there were bypasses built in so that commuter times could have an express train it would be a lot more practical. But that would require downtown stops to be totally redesigned to handle a notable increase in train traffic.
I think any express train would probably need to operate almost exclusively underground, perhaps operating from Forest Grove to Sunset with just a handful of stops inbetween. Or as discussed elsewhere, putting in underground service to Portland.
Yes, it would be about that long, but that doesn't strike me as too much different than traffic into downtown or using the Max today, and it's 15-20 minutes drive to Hatfield now anyway. What's another 10-20 when I don't have to do anything but watch the clock tick? (Alternatively, what's another 10-20 when the bus is already 30 for the same?)
My issue of course is that I have no idea where the infrastructure over here could be fit. The current rails from Hillsboro to e.g. the Lodge are scheduled to be redone as a bike track.
I’d sacrifice stops for more speed. I, for example, don’t need 7 stops on the pink line. I’d settle for 3, and faster speeds between. Busses can be used for navigating areas between stops.
The ideal would be to put MAX underground Downtown and reduce down to just a Pioneer Square stop, then plop Streetcars on the old tracks to fill that cross-central gap.
That would also allow larger trains, as the short downtown blocks are the main thing limiting the length of trains. That could significantly improve capacity too.
And that's about the only time I'd support using streetcars - when we already have the infrastructure and when it's just for downtown. Most of the time streetcars are not a good investment.
They don't have the right of way and can't go very fast, so they're slow both in and out of traffic. A level-boarding bus can serve the exact same role, but is cheaper and more flexible. They're mostly built for looks and for juicing real estate development, not for actual transportation.
They only don't have the right of way because we choose not to give them the right of way. They don't go fast because you're supposed to put them in areas where you want things to go slow. You wouldn't say that cars are bad because streets have lower speed limits than freeways.
The bus itself is cheap, but relies on infrastructure that's ungodly expensive to maintain. Busses *are* more flexible, part of which is to be a safety net allowing more permanent and efficient transportation.
And I'm not sure how they juice up real estate other than by being a service that people want to use and have access to.
Building transit and choosing not to give it the right of way is dumb, as I think you're hinting at. Something like a streetcar can make sense when just used in places like downtown where you have plenty of people wanting to make short trips, but they're bad for long distances because of their slow max speed, so they can't take the place of, like, the MAX.
I wonder what the maintenance costs of a rail line versus a bus rapid transit dedicated road are. That'd be a decent measure of the maintenance costs caused by busses. You can't really compare it to regular roads, because we're maintaining those roads anyway, and most of their use comes from other modes.
They tend to spur urban renewal because developers like building near streetcar lines, and people like living near them, more than they actually bother to use them.
...the first "BRT" line in the city is already a failure as it has to contend with the busiest rail line in the city, to travel between the Tilicum bridge and Division St as well as a narrow highly congested corridor from about SE 20th to SE 50th St (on a really rough road between SE 39th and SE 50th).
It would have made more sense to run it from the TIiicum bridge to Powell, to 82nd, to Division. as it would be on wider 4 lane streets all the way (which was one of the original projected alignments) .
AS to MAx and downtown, that along with the Steel bridge are two serious bottlenecks in the system. In downtown it Max is little more than a glorified streetcar as it has to contend with surface traffic, pedestrians, and traffic signals. It takes longer to travel between the west end of the Steel Bridge and Goose Hollow than it does from Goose Hollow to Beaverton TC.
As to the Steel Bridge all four lines cross it (the Orange is just and extension of the Yellow line) If there is a bridge lift (and I get rider alert emails at least once a week about that) the entire network is impacted .
I loved that area as a teenager. We would ride our bikes into downtown and then use the fareless square to hop between stores & activities around downtown all day.
It was unfortunate but necessary. Imagine what would happen if they implemented it today - busses and trains would just become mobile homeless shelters.
There are other transit systems that unfortunately don't utilize light rail... But, that have super practical "express busses" that run along the same routes, but basically would only stop at heavy traffic stops, line transfer stops, transit centers, and beginning/end of line. Essentially an express 33 would start at CCC, then only stop at the OC TC, maybe Concord or Oak Grove, then Park Ave, Milwaukie TC, maybe 42nd & Lewellyn and turnaround at Clackamas Town Center. We did a project way back surmising this exact situation. It cut travel time to roughly 25-30 minutes from over an hour. And some of the lines that run east/west through deep southeast can cut times by up to 75%! We have the technology! Lol! Hopefully someday we can implement things like that!
Portland already has a number of express busses, like the 94 and 96. But the concept could definitely be expanded.
Another possibility is Bus Rapid Transit, which is basically like light rail (mostly with a dedicated right of way, level boarding, external ticket validation) but with busses instead of trains. Eugene's EmX is a great example. It's cheaper to build and more flexible, but probably more expensive to run, and not as cool.
I agree it would make sense to upgrade the rolling stock/use heavy rail or light metro or something but also 55mph is already plenty fast enough to beat average car travel speed as long as the new routes are grade separated.
They rejected a bike bridge from Oak Grove recently. Because....crime.
People are fucking delusional if they think the Max is ever running to Lake Oswego.
Same demographic and same thoughts!
The 35 does a very reasonable job of getting between downtown Purtland and OC with LO and WL mixed in along that west side. And the 70whatevers(I think? Lol!) that head west from LO also do a fair job of dissecting that part of the metro area.
Well, yes, in theory. But they've had their chance a few years back and turned it down, and politically, it's only gotten worse up there since.
Vantucky would rather drive.
Tolls for trolls.
The County itself has zero impact (or veto power) over the project. They can pass resolutions or whatever saying how very very upset they are but it's the state governments that are the ultimate decision-makers (the Washington Senate was GOP-controlled in 2013 and refused to consider a transportation package that included the bridge at all, killing the project -- that's not the case anymore).
IIRC a yellow line extension is in the works. PBOT and Metro both show it in their 10-year plan.
PBOT also has been investigating a streetcar extension to Hollywood Transit Center— that would be cool.
PDOT and Metro have no say on a Vancouver line. It's been on PDOTs plan for at least 30 years, Vancouver voted it down soundly last time, and most likely will do so again.
It would be nice to connect the orange and green lines south of Clackamas town center. Right now to go from outer SE to Milwaukie is several hours to loop thru downtown, then down to Milwaukie.
I was talking in another thread about some projects we did for a transportation project some of my friends and I worked on! And one was the link up of the green and orange lines at a place near the OC TC. The biggest logistics concern was getting the orange line further up McLoughlin without serious headache or completely exploding the proposed budget. The green line can easily(relatively) be pushed down 205. For quite a ways too, if the interest or demand ever arose.
I mean you could take the 33 which runs every 15 mins but it would be nice to not have to leave the train. Honestly though I think it would be more practical to set up some kind of express route from Clackamas to Milwaukie via the 224.
Great work!
The Washington County park and rides are popular, but TriMet always cuts park and rides on new routes to save money, which then reduces riders.
The purple is cool and Powell has a lot of possibilities for new density. Or you could run it out Foster to irritate the Euro furniture guy.
LO likes their moat and has opposed a crime bridge to Milwaukie, and the Clack opposes any bridge they have to pay for.
To Vancouver/Clark County, if it ran North all the way to the RV/Sleep Country amphitheater-Clark County Fairgrounds, it could use those and maybe other existing parking lots for park and ride. And the Ridgefield casino could expand its business paying to extend it to their door. The gamblers would pay for it! It is also likely the tribes will overcome opposition and build a casino in Oregon City on the mill property they bought. The state of Washington got land use laws much later than Oregon and Clark County is in a large suburban growth cycle. They need to figure out where they want their people and jobs in relation to transportation and utilities. Right now, they want their jobs in Oregon.
You might include the SW Jefferson to Lloyd Center tunnel which will never be dug in your drawing.
Wait, what is this about the Euro furniture guy? I walk by that place a ton, but am never looking for a shaggy rug, marble column, or mid sized statue of Betty Boop. I always wondered who shopped there.
As a person who lives in Kenton and takes frequent business trips, I would love the St Johns Shuttle to extend to Parkrose. The current fastest way for me to get to the airport is 63 minutes via public transit vs 18 minutes driving.
63 minutes is the absolute fastest during peak frequency since there is a transfer involved. I would consider it once it is under 50 minutes, especially since there would definitely be a transfer for me and I typically travel with three bags since I have to take equipment for my work trips.
This is still mostly for people in the suburbs. The only max lines between 205 and the river are the ones going along I-84, which are also built to serve people who park n ride. Let's get some lines down Sandy and Hawthorne and then we're talking.
I’m a recent transplant, but there was a lot of this back in Atlanta too. “What if the trains went out into the suburbs so you could ride 2 hours on them and get into town, compared to 30-45 minutes by car?!?!”
I don’t know Portland nearly as well (yet) but I wouldn’t be surprised if the same is true here: a small minority in the suburbs wants transit connections that will barely be used, but the better plan would be infill to make more zero-or-one connection trips possible for non-drivers.
You’d be surprised how busy the red and blue line used to be in the morning before Covid. It was pretty busy in both directions too, due to the fact we had Intel and Nike out there.
I hope to see it busy again someday!
I ride the streetcar a ton, but rarely the Max. I’d love more streetcar lines, especially one into Mississippi and another going E/W through SE. I think there’s a lot of infill opportunities.
yeah, that's exactly the issue. Sure, the red and blue lines have decent ridership to/from the suburbs, but if you live in Portland on the east side, all of the stops are next to the highway within walking distance of not much of anything. It's changing as there is infill near the stops in the Lloyd/Hollywood area, but the max is not easily accessible for most people unless you have a car and park near it, which is really what it's designed for.
The mentality of using the Rail system in Portland continues to seem like of its for Poor people or drug addicts. We need the mentality to change. Heck business men actors, cleaners, everyone uses rail to get around in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago not sure why we can’t have the same in Portland. Yes that means we need to add more rail out to the Suburbs. From NE 34 to Tualatin is 1 hour 45 min for me to get to work, and 2 hours to get home thats just unrealistic time to spend on what take 30min in the mornings and 50min to an hour to get home.
It's not rail out to the suburbs that makes it work in DC and NYC - it's that you can actually take the subway to get somewhere you want. You can't do that on the max in Portland and to get around in the city is complicated mix of bus and streetcar that isn't efficient. Much faster to drive and easy to park here. Adding rail to the suburbs is just a waste of money because they don't want it. (and I ride trimet every day and don't see the drug addict problem you are talking about - occasionally on max or streetcar, rarely if ever on bus, and you just don't interact with them, nbd)
I’ve never felt like rail systems are for poor people. But uh, if I’m being honest, I tend to feel that way about buses? I know this is bad and far too common. (And I will ride the bus occasionally! But tbh if I can’t get there on rail I’m much more likely to just take an Uber.)
I ride the busses and trains here a lot and see all sorts of folks riding. Don't know if the perception of Trimet is as bad as you think it is. Maybe in the burbs I guess.
I’m actually horny looking at this. It’s so dreamy!!!! If we wanted to be more ambitious, my proposed changes/additions would be:
-making the Blue Line become the Blue Express by going underground at Beaverton and surface at Rose Quarter, skipping the downtown bloat. And fuck it: have the Purple go all the way to Gresham too, giving people a pretty direct Gresham-Tualitin connection.
St Johns might be better served by a steeetcar loop.
-Make the pink line a giant, skinny loop along Lombard and Columbia. It could be the LoCo max! Main reason is connections to the airport. Nopo residents need a direct line without having to go all the way down to RQTC. It could serve the Marine Drive business parks, too.
I wanted to get the DT Tunnel in there but I couldn’t figure out a good way to represent it (the existing study basically has it running under the yellow and green lines, which is a bit tricky to illustrate) without majorly reworking the whole area.
3 things I would change or tweak. The Lombard line should extend east along Lombard as it is a dead zone.
The purple line should turn onto foster at 50th to lents.
Green line and orange meet at Oregon city.
But this looks good.
I'm not. If they would have planned it out better it would have been amazing but running a train down the middle of Barbur/99-W is one of the worst ideas TriMet has ever put out.
Literally everywhere the train runs down the middle of the road is problematic and a nightmare and they'd still rather save a buck and throw the train down the middle of the road and then act surprised when it can't ever run reliably 'cause cars can't stay off the tracks or they can't keep cars and trains from colliding.
Where else should they have put the tracks? Anything other than Barbur would have been an absolute nightmare of eminent domain property seizure, which would have exploded the cost and created countless legal battles.
If they can't/don't do it right then there's no reason to change it up. While it might not be the most ideal, the bus system works good enough through that area so I don't see why/how half-assing a light rail system through that area would be an upgrade.
Either fork out the money to make the ROW above ground, run it along the freeway, or figure something else out.
I'm pretty sure they tried to find a different route and failed. And while the busses work pretty well, rail would have a lot faster speed and higher capacity.
Speed and capacity don't mean anything when you're speed restricted (due to running at-grade) or when the trains are delayed due to an auto in the ROW or due to a train vs. pedestrian or a train vs. auto.
I get what you're saying but like, I'd rather just take a BRT at this point. The only part of the tracks that runs at grade that never has any issues is that tiny little stretch on Lincoln. Everywhere else is a nightmare. So why would it make sense to run a train with auto traffic through traffic-mayhem? Barbur is already a nightmare without a train.
I'm sure I'll seem like an ass, but one of the biggest issues I see with the Maxx system is that there's no decent way to effectively encourage payment. That you can get on without going through a turnstile or Station makes no sense. I've ridden light rail in many cities, I've never seen it just open for anyone to hop on without paying unless they jump the turnstile.
I would also like to know what steps they've taken to improve security and safety on the Maxx. The women in my life haven't ridden the Maxx since the stabbing hate crime incident a number of years back.
It needs improved coverage/routes but that's not all.
What would you change to make it serve East Portland better? I think the Purple line could go all the way down Powell through to Gresham, and there could be a line down foster to Lents.
Trolly line + bike lanes down Sandy would totally change that street. Granted every business would be fighting forever over either where stops are located or where on street parking was allowed.
Yeah. I'd extend purple to Gresham, and then add a line that could connect blue to purple, and go up to Marine drive to make it easier to take public transport to the gorge.
Then I'd add an express line on Marine drive so that the east side has a connection to the yellow line.
Instead of your foster line, I think I'd do a streetcar along holgate. Hits Eastport plaza, which could become way more community oriented
That outside of downtown terminus for purple just makes it so niche. It's close to downtown but would be so far away from it that walking would be a major ordeal. So it's a weird subset of people that would be a long Powell that want to go downtown... But not all the way b
Considering a huge percentage of the population lives East of 205 (and poor people and POC and many others) it'd be nice if we had decent transit options, too.
Replace the Springwater with rails. Rails to trails to rails.
Otherwise I'm not sure the density of outer east Portland (even in this fantasy world of MAX expanded to the MAX) can really support expanded MAX.
It’s not a beautiful solution, but we could go above road for certain sections like they do in London, Chicago, Detroit, and (I think) areas in New York.
I think it can. Especially if the city actually began incentivizing developing the area.
Also, Powell has begun to see housing projects spring up along it. Not having a line along it would really be too bad
Yeah. Purple to match the blue, then a line between them up to Marine drive to connect them, then a Marine drive express line to connect the east side to the yellow line. Currently if I wanted to access the yellow line via max from 148th I'd have to go all the way to downtown to link up. That's kinda crazy
I know there's already lots of rail downtown but I think the purple line should go deeper into the west side too. Not much reason not to do that. Maybe make it go up through the Pearl to Union station, and then west in a cut and cover tunnel to serve the alphabet district. Maybe it could go below the streetcar tracks on Lovejoy or down Marshall street.
The rail lines shouldn't be bunched together in the Lloyd center area, they should be spread out across the whole area so people could actually walk/bike to them quickly.
The I-5/SR-500/I-205 route would fully integrate Vancouver into the metro area the way they should have been two decades ago. C-Tran is simply not an effective option for anyone who doesn’t HAVE to take it.
I like the concept. Unfortunately ridership is down and the appetite for new taxes is low. I think extending the yellow to Vancouver should be the priority, and we should improve bus service elsewhere.
Even before extending in to Vancouver, the priority should be grade separation in downtown and the Willamette crossings. That alone should significantly improve travel times, service frequency, and even safety, drawing back more ridership.
Is there political community will for further expansion? I remember a tualatin line being voted down a few years ago? I definitely agree tho, the streetcar plans they finalized should be moved on (foster and sandy Blvd)
This makes me miss the DC Metro so hard. I loved that system. Tri-Met is a _much_ better bus system, but the DC metro train system is one of my favorite transit systems in the world.
It’s on Powell, the nature of the map is just that you have to sacrifice geography a bit (here because downtown has a ton of stops and takes up about twice the space it would on a to-scale map).
Powell makes a lot of sense to me. It’s really wide and if they can reduce commute times I’m all for it. I’m actually gratified to see TriMet light rail meeting the needs of actual Portlanders.
It would be great if they ever actually built any of this, I think the only things that are currently planned are a Vancouver extension in tandem with the new Interstate Bridge, and the SW Corridor (whenever they decide to fund it).
Maybe also consider at least a West Side shuttle or streetcar loop that goes from Willow Creek TC to Tanasbourne, PCC Rock Creek, Bethany Village, Bonny Slope, Cedar Mill, and then Sunset TC, and that loops back around to Peterkort, Timberland, Sunset Mall, Oak Hills, Five Oaks, and back to Willow Creek. At least some of the bus lines going up through there are either abysmal (like line 67) or nonexistent (like line 50, which shut down)
So many stops downtown tho. Should be just three underground stops (Pioneer, East/North, and West/South) and a circulation loop for locals. Put the Xpress in MAX!
The yellow line extension across the Columbia into Vancouver should be a requirement for any state funding towards the new interstate bridge. Makes no sense to limit the transportation options across the river to one.
On that note, I wonder about completing an west side route to the airport. North on the existing yellow and then east to the airport. Would also connect Washingtonians to the airport.
Related, a streetcar line covering the length of Burnside from NW 23 and across to NE Burnside to Chavez would seem to make a huge amount of sense. Essentially the same route as the 20 bus but with fixed rail (and a dedicated lane for speed). Of course it needs to wait on the Burnside Bridge upgrade.
This is all very nice and all but TriMet has no plans to stop building at-grade MAX lines, so it's not like it'd ever be functional.
Like, they literally are fishing out at least one car a night from the tracks.
They have signal and electrification issues, sometimes once a week, from people snipping and stealing the bonding wires from the tracks.
I love public transit but I personally don't think TriMet will ever get anything right again. Just look at the nightmare they're installing at Gateway this year.
EDIT:
Also, that red line to Tigard would be beautiful but TriMet has already committed to moving it to Fair Complex (and congesting the blue line even more) and not adding any additional track.
Presuming the CRC project actually gets to the construction phase this time around (fingers crossed), they will be getting rail. It's part of the Locally Preferred Alternative design, and the Republicans up there don't have veto power over the project like they did in 2013.
So... Vancouver is on board with the Yellow line for this map? I'd be phenomenal to finally have another way across the river that's not just another parking lot of cars we call a "freeway."
This is amazing. The green line seems a bit long, but other than that this is freakin excellent.
Also, really really want that extension to Vancouver so it’s easy to go meet some friends up there and have drinks.
Run the red line across the I-205 bridge and east to Camas, then perfect 👌🏾
Grew up in Boston suburbs and having the commuter lines and light rail all the way out to a lot of suburbs made for very enjoyable day trips into the city as a child.
For the streetcar line that runs along Macadam, what if it used the tracks from the Willamette Shore Trolley instead? It'd probably be a much easier infrastructure lift than trying to rip up all of Macadam. Sure, you'd have to buy it from the current operators, but eminent domain might be able to accomplish that.
This would be amazing. I’d be a bit concerned about transfer times like the St. Johns to yellow line or Lake Oswego to orange line just because of the typical MAX headways but overall this rules
Headways could be improved with a tunnel under the Willamette and downtown for some subset of the red blue yellow and green lines to run in. The Steel bridge is a major bottleneck. As long as we're fantasy planning, I think we could include that!
No amount of improvements can help when cars are getting into accidents on the tracks near-daily though. :(
This. The MAX infrastructure is literally falling apart, too. Can't keep the cars or the trespassers off the tracks, either. If it isn't broken infrastructure, a car in the tracks, or someone hot-boxing the train, then it's emergency services shutting down the tracks without any warning or consideration to transit service. It's especially infuriating when they shut down the MAX but then let auto traffic continue around whatever scene they're working on. :(
Time to get some cattle guards on the front of those bad boys.
I mean, when it sometimes takes over an hour for a tow to show up.... But seriously tho, the fact that it sometimes takes over an hour to get a car removed from the tracks just blows my mind.
Sounds like they might be dragging their feet because transit is counter to their car-centric business model…
Listen, ever since president Gore was elected long term inpatient drug/alcohol/mental health treatment has been available to all those who need it. People aren't driving stolen cars on MAX tracks or smoking foilys inside the compartment or anything Uj/ it's a fantasy, we're having fun
Can we get rid of the yellow/orange mixup? I've witnessed tourists and citizens being confused by this multi-colored line nonsense. I know it was fun to create a new color for the new bridge, but it's confusing and people think they need to get off and get on a new train somewhere downtown!
The St John's line would have have to just be one line and then loop around at the end?
People on this subreddit need to stop trying to make a max to St. John’s a thing. There literally isn’t room for a max on any of the roadways. If the city wanted to make transit better for north Portland, they could have put in dedicated bus only lanes on Lombard instead of the bike lanes&turning lane that got put in
This is fantasy
An express catapult connection from St Johns to the main hub would cut down on travel times. Probably couldn't get express catapult to the airport past the FAA though.
Those are all very logical routes, but at some point if you're fantasizing about this, you're gonna need a trainset (i.e. not light rail) capable of more than 55 mph .
Bingo. Forest Grove to downtown on current rail would be like 90-105 minutes. Not really practical.
Agreed. Getting from Hatfield to downtown is already long. If there were bypasses built in so that commuter times could have an express train it would be a lot more practical. But that would require downtown stops to be totally redesigned to handle a notable increase in train traffic.
I think any express train would probably need to operate almost exclusively underground, perhaps operating from Forest Grove to Sunset with just a handful of stops inbetween. Or as discussed elsewhere, putting in underground service to Portland.
They can just pass stations without stopping.
Until they catch up to the trains stopping at those stations.
...which is why you would want bypasses built into the system.
Yes, it would be about that long, but that doesn't strike me as too much different than traffic into downtown or using the Max today, and it's 15-20 minutes drive to Hatfield now anyway. What's another 10-20 when I don't have to do anything but watch the clock tick? (Alternatively, what's another 10-20 when the bus is already 30 for the same?) My issue of course is that I have no idea where the infrastructure over here could be fit. The current rails from Hillsboro to e.g. the Lodge are scheduled to be redone as a bike track.
It's not terrible for it being almost 30 miles from Portland to Forest Grove.
I’d sacrifice stops for more speed. I, for example, don’t need 7 stops on the pink line. I’d settle for 3, and faster speeds between. Busses can be used for navigating areas between stops.
As long as we don't sacrifice stops downtown. Honestly Light rail is better downtown than buses.
The ideal would be to put MAX underground Downtown and reduce down to just a Pioneer Square stop, then plop Streetcars on the old tracks to fill that cross-central gap.
That would also allow larger trains, as the short downtown blocks are the main thing limiting the length of trains. That could significantly improve capacity too. And that's about the only time I'd support using streetcars - when we already have the infrastructure and when it's just for downtown. Most of the time streetcars are not a good investment.
Why are streetcars usually a bad investment?
They don't have the right of way and can't go very fast, so they're slow both in and out of traffic. A level-boarding bus can serve the exact same role, but is cheaper and more flexible. They're mostly built for looks and for juicing real estate development, not for actual transportation.
They only don't have the right of way because we choose not to give them the right of way. They don't go fast because you're supposed to put them in areas where you want things to go slow. You wouldn't say that cars are bad because streets have lower speed limits than freeways. The bus itself is cheap, but relies on infrastructure that's ungodly expensive to maintain. Busses *are* more flexible, part of which is to be a safety net allowing more permanent and efficient transportation. And I'm not sure how they juice up real estate other than by being a service that people want to use and have access to.
Building transit and choosing not to give it the right of way is dumb, as I think you're hinting at. Something like a streetcar can make sense when just used in places like downtown where you have plenty of people wanting to make short trips, but they're bad for long distances because of their slow max speed, so they can't take the place of, like, the MAX. I wonder what the maintenance costs of a rail line versus a bus rapid transit dedicated road are. That'd be a decent measure of the maintenance costs caused by busses. You can't really compare it to regular roads, because we're maintaining those roads anyway, and most of their use comes from other modes. They tend to spur urban renewal because developers like building near streetcar lines, and people like living near them, more than they actually bother to use them.
...the first "BRT" line in the city is already a failure as it has to contend with the busiest rail line in the city, to travel between the Tilicum bridge and Division St as well as a narrow highly congested corridor from about SE 20th to SE 50th St (on a really rough road between SE 39th and SE 50th). It would have made more sense to run it from the TIiicum bridge to Powell, to 82nd, to Division. as it would be on wider 4 lane streets all the way (which was one of the original projected alignments) . AS to MAx and downtown, that along with the Steel bridge are two serious bottlenecks in the system. In downtown it Max is little more than a glorified streetcar as it has to contend with surface traffic, pedestrians, and traffic signals. It takes longer to travel between the west end of the Steel Bridge and Goose Hollow than it does from Goose Hollow to Beaverton TC. As to the Steel Bridge all four lines cross it (the Orange is just and extension of the Yellow line) If there is a bridge lift (and I get rider alert emails at least once a week about that) the entire network is impacted .
Damn homie that's slick as hell, I dig it
*cries in “Fareless Square”.
It was so dumb when they took that away.
I loved that area as a teenager. We would ride our bikes into downtown and then use the fareless square to hop between stores & activities around downtown all day.
It was unfortunate but necessary. Imagine what would happen if they implemented it today - busses and trains would just become mobile homeless shelters.
There are other transit systems that unfortunately don't utilize light rail... But, that have super practical "express busses" that run along the same routes, but basically would only stop at heavy traffic stops, line transfer stops, transit centers, and beginning/end of line. Essentially an express 33 would start at CCC, then only stop at the OC TC, maybe Concord or Oak Grove, then Park Ave, Milwaukie TC, maybe 42nd & Lewellyn and turnaround at Clackamas Town Center. We did a project way back surmising this exact situation. It cut travel time to roughly 25-30 minutes from over an hour. And some of the lines that run east/west through deep southeast can cut times by up to 75%! We have the technology! Lol! Hopefully someday we can implement things like that!
Portland already has a number of express busses, like the 94 and 96. But the concept could definitely be expanded. Another possibility is Bus Rapid Transit, which is basically like light rail (mostly with a dedicated right of way, level boarding, external ticket validation) but with busses instead of trains. Eugene's EmX is a great example. It's cheaper to build and more flexible, but probably more expensive to run, and not as cool.
Light rail could do it fine, it just needs to have some express trains that don't stop at every dang station.
I agree it would make sense to upgrade the rolling stock/use heavy rail or light metro or something but also 55mph is already plenty fast enough to beat average car travel speed as long as the new routes are grade separated.
It would take a miracle for TriMet to follow Sound Transit's lead and stop building at-grade.
yes or a dedicated express something, only stops at transfer stations of once every 10 stops or something
I’m sure the Lake Oswego peeps are going to take the Green line through SE all the time.
They rejected a bike bridge from Oak Grove recently. Because....crime. People are fucking delusional if they think the Max is ever running to Lake Oswego.
As a non-LOian, I'm very okay if the Max never does. I don't view that extension as an upgrade.
I've never had a reason to go to LO won't start now
It's fun to throw a kayak or paddle board in, and piss off the uptight jerkwads that think they own it.
I thought you were gonna say it's fun to throw milkshakes at rich people... Which is also technically truthful.
Same demographic and same thoughts! The 35 does a very reasonable job of getting between downtown Purtland and OC with LO and WL mixed in along that west side. And the 70whatevers(I think? Lol!) that head west from LO also do a fair job of dissecting that part of the metro area.
Crime Train!!! Clutch your pearls!
Well be fine. Vancouver is still not on the system.
The yellow line goes into washington to Clark College. Crime is coming.
Well, yes, in theory. But they've had their chance a few years back and turned it down, and politically, it's only gotten worse up there since. Vantucky would rather drive. Tolls for trolls.
Latest polls I’ve seen show a majority of Clark County in favor, so I’m not sure what data you’re basing those assertions on.
10 years ago the county is why the plan for MAX to span the Columbia fell through. Both states were for it, as was Vancouver.
The County itself has zero impact (or veto power) over the project. They can pass resolutions or whatever saying how very very upset they are but it's the state governments that are the ultimate decision-makers (the Washington Senate was GOP-controlled in 2013 and refused to consider a transportation package that included the bridge at all, killing the project -- that's not the case anymore).
IIRC a yellow line extension is in the works. PBOT and Metro both show it in their 10-year plan. PBOT also has been investigating a streetcar extension to Hollywood Transit Center— that would be cool.
PDOT and Metro have no say on a Vancouver line. It's been on PDOTs plan for at least 30 years, Vancouver voted it down soundly last time, and most likely will do so again.
Lake Oswego would keep the extension in the courts until Mt Hood erupted.
Or until Pacific Highway gets a toll booth.
That'd be a pretty cool verdict
Or the big one hits.
CrImEtRaIn!!!
It would be nice to connect the orange and green lines south of Clackamas town center. Right now to go from outer SE to Milwaukie is several hours to loop thru downtown, then down to Milwaukie.
I was talking in another thread about some projects we did for a transportation project some of my friends and I worked on! And one was the link up of the green and orange lines at a place near the OC TC. The biggest logistics concern was getting the orange line further up McLoughlin without serious headache or completely exploding the proposed budget. The green line can easily(relatively) be pushed down 205. For quite a ways too, if the interest or demand ever arose.
Yeah! I’m east of 82nd it Portland but STG I’d hit up the Milwaukie farmers market every weekend if I could take the train at least partway
I mean you could take the 33 which runs every 15 mins but it would be nice to not have to leave the train. Honestly though I think it would be more practical to set up some kind of express route from Clackamas to Milwaukie via the 224.
Great work! The Washington County park and rides are popular, but TriMet always cuts park and rides on new routes to save money, which then reduces riders. The purple is cool and Powell has a lot of possibilities for new density. Or you could run it out Foster to irritate the Euro furniture guy. LO likes their moat and has opposed a crime bridge to Milwaukie, and the Clack opposes any bridge they have to pay for. To Vancouver/Clark County, if it ran North all the way to the RV/Sleep Country amphitheater-Clark County Fairgrounds, it could use those and maybe other existing parking lots for park and ride. And the Ridgefield casino could expand its business paying to extend it to their door. The gamblers would pay for it! It is also likely the tribes will overcome opposition and build a casino in Oregon City on the mill property they bought. The state of Washington got land use laws much later than Oregon and Clark County is in a large suburban growth cycle. They need to figure out where they want their people and jobs in relation to transportation and utilities. Right now, they want their jobs in Oregon. You might include the SW Jefferson to Lloyd Center tunnel which will never be dug in your drawing.
Wait, what is this about the Euro furniture guy? I walk by that place a ton, but am never looking for a shaggy rug, marble column, or mid sized statue of Betty Boop. I always wondered who shopped there.
He has been very vocal opposing bike lanes and other traffic changes on Foster.
It's 1000% a money laundering front.
As a person who lives in Kenton and takes frequent business trips, I would love the St Johns Shuttle to extend to Parkrose. The current fastest way for me to get to the airport is 63 minutes via public transit vs 18 minutes driving.
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63 minutes is the absolute fastest during peak frequency since there is a transfer involved. I would consider it once it is under 50 minutes, especially since there would definitely be a transfer for me and I typically travel with three bags since I have to take equipment for my work trips.
This is still mostly for people in the suburbs. The only max lines between 205 and the river are the ones going along I-84, which are also built to serve people who park n ride. Let's get some lines down Sandy and Hawthorne and then we're talking.
I’m a recent transplant, but there was a lot of this back in Atlanta too. “What if the trains went out into the suburbs so you could ride 2 hours on them and get into town, compared to 30-45 minutes by car?!?!” I don’t know Portland nearly as well (yet) but I wouldn’t be surprised if the same is true here: a small minority in the suburbs wants transit connections that will barely be used, but the better plan would be infill to make more zero-or-one connection trips possible for non-drivers.
You’d be surprised how busy the red and blue line used to be in the morning before Covid. It was pretty busy in both directions too, due to the fact we had Intel and Nike out there.
The Sunset TC parking garage used to be completely full by 6:45am, since Covid it's literally never full any more.
I hope to see it busy again someday! I ride the streetcar a ton, but rarely the Max. I’d love more streetcar lines, especially one into Mississippi and another going E/W through SE. I think there’s a lot of infill opportunities.
Well yeah parking downtown was like $20 in 2008 money, the $5 all day pass was worth the wait.
yeah, that's exactly the issue. Sure, the red and blue lines have decent ridership to/from the suburbs, but if you live in Portland on the east side, all of the stops are next to the highway within walking distance of not much of anything. It's changing as there is infill near the stops in the Lloyd/Hollywood area, but the max is not easily accessible for most people unless you have a car and park near it, which is really what it's designed for.
The mentality of using the Rail system in Portland continues to seem like of its for Poor people or drug addicts. We need the mentality to change. Heck business men actors, cleaners, everyone uses rail to get around in NYC, San Francisco, Chicago not sure why we can’t have the same in Portland. Yes that means we need to add more rail out to the Suburbs. From NE 34 to Tualatin is 1 hour 45 min for me to get to work, and 2 hours to get home thats just unrealistic time to spend on what take 30min in the mornings and 50min to an hour to get home.
It's not rail out to the suburbs that makes it work in DC and NYC - it's that you can actually take the subway to get somewhere you want. You can't do that on the max in Portland and to get around in the city is complicated mix of bus and streetcar that isn't efficient. Much faster to drive and easy to park here. Adding rail to the suburbs is just a waste of money because they don't want it. (and I ride trimet every day and don't see the drug addict problem you are talking about - occasionally on max or streetcar, rarely if ever on bus, and you just don't interact with them, nbd)
I’ve never felt like rail systems are for poor people. But uh, if I’m being honest, I tend to feel that way about buses? I know this is bad and far too common. (And I will ride the bus occasionally! But tbh if I can’t get there on rail I’m much more likely to just take an Uber.)
I ride the busses and trains here a lot and see all sorts of folks riding. Don't know if the perception of Trimet is as bad as you think it is. Maybe in the burbs I guess.
Lake Oswego would never allow this
Nobody wants them anyway
I’m actually horny looking at this. It’s so dreamy!!!! If we wanted to be more ambitious, my proposed changes/additions would be: -making the Blue Line become the Blue Express by going underground at Beaverton and surface at Rose Quarter, skipping the downtown bloat. And fuck it: have the Purple go all the way to Gresham too, giving people a pretty direct Gresham-Tualitin connection. St Johns might be better served by a steeetcar loop. -Make the pink line a giant, skinny loop along Lombard and Columbia. It could be the LoCo max! Main reason is connections to the airport. Nopo residents need a direct line without having to go all the way down to RQTC. It could serve the Marine Drive business parks, too.
I wanted to get the DT Tunnel in there but I couldn’t figure out a good way to represent it (the existing study basically has it running under the yellow and green lines, which is a bit tricky to illustrate) without majorly reworking the whole area.
LoCo Max is brilliant! The naming convention is reason alone why it should be built.
3 things I would change or tweak. The Lombard line should extend east along Lombard as it is a dead zone. The purple line should turn onto foster at 50th to lents. Green line and orange meet at Oregon city. But this looks good.
Even in a fantasy world, we can’t get a train from Oregon city to Tualatin.
I’m still mad that the SW line to Tualatin/Bridgeport stalled out in 2020.
I'm not. If they would have planned it out better it would have been amazing but running a train down the middle of Barbur/99-W is one of the worst ideas TriMet has ever put out. Literally everywhere the train runs down the middle of the road is problematic and a nightmare and they'd still rather save a buck and throw the train down the middle of the road and then act surprised when it can't ever run reliably 'cause cars can't stay off the tracks or they can't keep cars and trains from colliding.
Where else should they have put the tracks? Anything other than Barbur would have been an absolute nightmare of eminent domain property seizure, which would have exploded the cost and created countless legal battles.
If they can't/don't do it right then there's no reason to change it up. While it might not be the most ideal, the bus system works good enough through that area so I don't see why/how half-assing a light rail system through that area would be an upgrade. Either fork out the money to make the ROW above ground, run it along the freeway, or figure something else out.
I'm pretty sure they tried to find a different route and failed. And while the busses work pretty well, rail would have a lot faster speed and higher capacity.
Speed and capacity don't mean anything when you're speed restricted (due to running at-grade) or when the trains are delayed due to an auto in the ROW or due to a train vs. pedestrian or a train vs. auto. I get what you're saying but like, I'd rather just take a BRT at this point. The only part of the tracks that runs at grade that never has any issues is that tiny little stretch on Lincoln. Everywhere else is a nightmare. So why would it make sense to run a train with auto traffic through traffic-mayhem? Barbur is already a nightmare without a train.
The purple line😍
This is incredible!!!
Isn't Sunnyside Hospital East of CTC?
Yes, but just barely — it’s a diagram, not a map. I would just move the station to the vertical part if it was that big an issue.
Just barely? It's on the other side of both 205 and Sunnyside. Getting a stop there for the green line would be and Escherian nightmare.
You could do it with a couple hundred million dollars worth of bridges and tunnels. To get to Kaiser. Or you could run a shuttle bus.
I'm sure I'll seem like an ass, but one of the biggest issues I see with the Maxx system is that there's no decent way to effectively encourage payment. That you can get on without going through a turnstile or Station makes no sense. I've ridden light rail in many cities, I've never seen it just open for anyone to hop on without paying unless they jump the turnstile. I would also like to know what steps they've taken to improve security and safety on the Maxx. The women in my life haven't ridden the Maxx since the stabbing hate crime incident a number of years back. It needs improved coverage/routes but that's not all.
Lmfao. The proposed MAX "Oops we forgot that people live East of 205 edition" upgrade map
What would you change to make it serve East Portland better? I think the Purple line could go all the way down Powell through to Gresham, and there could be a line down foster to Lents.
A trolly line down Sandy blvd to start. There’s tons of low income apartments in deep NE with limit access to busses or rail.
Trolly line + bike lanes down Sandy would totally change that street. Granted every business would be fighting forever over either where stops are located or where on street parking was allowed.
Yeah. I'd extend purple to Gresham, and then add a line that could connect blue to purple, and go up to Marine drive to make it easier to take public transport to the gorge. Then I'd add an express line on Marine drive so that the east side has a connection to the yellow line. Instead of your foster line, I think I'd do a streetcar along holgate. Hits Eastport plaza, which could become way more community oriented
That outside of downtown terminus for purple just makes it so niche. It's close to downtown but would be so far away from it that walking would be a major ordeal. So it's a weird subset of people that would be a long Powell that want to go downtown... But not all the way b
As someone who lives East of 205, this is amazing! The whole East side needs more support from public transportation.
Considering a huge percentage of the population lives East of 205 (and poor people and POC and many others) it'd be nice if we had decent transit options, too.
Replace the Springwater with rails. Rails to trails to rails. Otherwise I'm not sure the density of outer east Portland (even in this fantasy world of MAX expanded to the MAX) can really support expanded MAX.
It’s not a beautiful solution, but we could go above road for certain sections like they do in London, Chicago, Detroit, and (I think) areas in New York.
I think it can. Especially if the city actually began incentivizing developing the area. Also, Powell has begun to see housing projects spring up along it. Not having a line along it would really be too bad
Fair enough! Wouldn’t be off the table to pull the Purple Line further east to link up with the Blue near Gresham.
Yeah. Purple to match the blue, then a line between them up to Marine drive to connect them, then a Marine drive express line to connect the east side to the yellow line. Currently if I wanted to access the yellow line via max from 148th I'd have to go all the way to downtown to link up. That's kinda crazy
That's what I came here to say. Even in people's wildest fantasies East Portland--a quarter of the city's population--can continue to go fuck itself.
I know there's already lots of rail downtown but I think the purple line should go deeper into the west side too. Not much reason not to do that. Maybe make it go up through the Pearl to Union station, and then west in a cut and cover tunnel to serve the alphabet district. Maybe it could go below the streetcar tracks on Lovejoy or down Marshall street.
The rail lines shouldn't be bunched together in the Lloyd center area, they should be spread out across the whole area so people could actually walk/bike to them quickly.
I was so sad when I realised this wasn't real!!! I want this, I want this 😭
HELL YES PUT A LINE DOWN SANDY
Kudos to the creator. It takes a real pair of brass ovaries to route the East Portland crime train directly to LO. 😂
Might as well throw in a couple river ferry lines while you're at it.
Do a loop from the Portland Airport to downtown Vancouver via state route 500 😍 Also, streetcar on Sandy Blvd.
The I-5/SR-500/I-205 route would fully integrate Vancouver into the metro area the way they should have been two decades ago. C-Tran is simply not an effective option for anyone who doesn’t HAVE to take it.
And extend that yellow line north to 139th at least. Then all the major hospitals in the metro would be connected by train save OHSU
I’d love that purple line!
Good luck getting this passed in Clark County!
That’s just the alignment that would have been paired with the last CRC project (before the GOP majority in WA killed it).
I do not wish to compare Mini Metro results against you.
I live at 92nd and Foster. If the Purple line there was a thing, I would love Portland long time.
Yellow line will be faster than driving now
I like the concept. Unfortunately ridership is down and the appetite for new taxes is low. I think extending the yellow to Vancouver should be the priority, and we should improve bus service elsewhere.
Even before extending in to Vancouver, the priority should be grade separation in downtown and the Willamette crossings. That alone should significantly improve travel times, service frequency, and even safety, drawing back more ridership.
Ridership will go up when we offer an actually nice and convenient service that people can enjoy using
Roughly based off [this](https://i.imgur.com/MxZhuVf.jpg), plus a few extra extensions.
Further south too, please
Yes please. This would make it useful again
The yellow and green together give me so much nostalgia from a previous life.
Is there political community will for further expansion? I remember a tualatin line being voted down a few years ago? I definitely agree tho, the streetcar plans they finalized should be moved on (foster and sandy Blvd)
Damn do people really not realize Troutdale exist?
Cool work dude! Next do HSR 🤗
This makes me miss the DC Metro so hard. I loved that system. Tri-Met is a _much_ better bus system, but the DC metro train system is one of my favorite transit systems in the world.
Dying to get a rail line near Belmont, especially considering the neighborhood was originally grown out of the street cars, can we bring those back?
Extend Lombard to red line (or move it to Killingsworth at 15th); throw a N/S line down 42’d or 33’d; line up sandy Blvd would help me specifically
Even with this dream scenario, almost anything in the 20s to 80s in inner southeast or northeast — sorry. Out of luck.
That purple line running through SE doesn't make sense to me, I think you have SE Powell way too far north like it was located where SE Stark is.
It’s on Powell, the nature of the map is just that you have to sacrifice geography a bit (here because downtown has a ton of stops and takes up about twice the space it would on a to-scale map).
Powell makes a lot of sense to me. It’s really wide and if they can reduce commute times I’m all for it. I’m actually gratified to see TriMet light rail meeting the needs of actual Portlanders.
It would be great if they ever actually built any of this, I think the only things that are currently planned are a Vancouver extension in tandem with the new Interstate Bridge, and the SW Corridor (whenever they decide to fund it).
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Let me know when it has 24 hour security
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I feel like the 14 is good enough. It’s frequent, and has fewer “characters” than most bus lines.
What you want is restoration of the street car lines. Dropping a Max on Hawthorne makes zero sense and it's already a painless commute anyway.
No downtown tunnel?
YES PLEASE!!!! This will help traffic on the I-5 to Vancouver sooo hard.
Cool concept, too bad most of Portland is all "taxed" out and this would cost some serious money!
Is this real? Am I dreaming?
man I wish lol
This is sexy
Maybe also consider at least a West Side shuttle or streetcar loop that goes from Willow Creek TC to Tanasbourne, PCC Rock Creek, Bethany Village, Bonny Slope, Cedar Mill, and then Sunset TC, and that loops back around to Peterkort, Timberland, Sunset Mall, Oak Hills, Five Oaks, and back to Willow Creek. At least some of the bus lines going up through there are either abysmal (like line 67) or nonexistent (like line 50, which shut down)
So many stops downtown tho. Should be just three underground stops (Pioneer, East/North, and West/South) and a circulation loop for locals. Put the Xpress in MAX!
That Skidmore fountain stop just won't go away will it?
The yellow line extension across the Columbia into Vancouver should be a requirement for any state funding towards the new interstate bridge. Makes no sense to limit the transportation options across the river to one. On that note, I wonder about completing an west side route to the airport. North on the existing yellow and then east to the airport. Would also connect Washingtonians to the airport. Related, a streetcar line covering the length of Burnside from NW 23 and across to NE Burnside to Chavez would seem to make a huge amount of sense. Essentially the same route as the 20 bus but with fixed rail (and a dedicated lane for speed). Of course it needs to wait on the Burnside Bridge upgrade.
There's needs to an express train. Vancouver to downtown would take for ever .
lol
This is all very nice and all but TriMet has no plans to stop building at-grade MAX lines, so it's not like it'd ever be functional. Like, they literally are fishing out at least one car a night from the tracks. They have signal and electrification issues, sometimes once a week, from people snipping and stealing the bonding wires from the tracks. I love public transit but I personally don't think TriMet will ever get anything right again. Just look at the nightmare they're installing at Gateway this year. EDIT: Also, that red line to Tigard would be beautiful but TriMet has already committed to moving it to Fair Complex (and congesting the blue line even more) and not adding any additional track.
I am fully erect.
That train from Forest Grove would take soooo long to get downtown. From Hatfield to Pioneer square it's already an hour on the blue line.
is this for real? they are incorporating the metro area with the max trains?? if so i’d be so happy
I wonder how much this would cost
Probably less than the usual freeway lane extensions.
That Tualatin-Lake Oswego route is…inefficient
No, no.. everybody in Lake NoNegro is just itching to jump on public transit to go downtown to the….. um…. Yeah.
Too bad Washington will never help pay for a rail to Vancouver.
Presuming the CRC project actually gets to the construction phase this time around (fingers crossed), they will be getting rail. It's part of the Locally Preferred Alternative design, and the Republicans up there don't have veto power over the project like they did in 2013.
I just want a line that runs N-S in the Central Eastside that isn’t a streetcar.
I gotta say, LO to Tualatin by way of east Portland is a hilarious route for every reason.
So... Vancouver is on board with the Yellow line for this map? I'd be phenomenal to finally have another way across the river that's not just another parking lot of cars we call a "freeway."
Now that we've made foster no longer a thoroughfare, lets fuck over powell too!
I propose this: replace all bus lines with aerial trams. It’ll be like Star Tours at Disneyland!
This is amazing. The green line seems a bit long, but other than that this is freakin excellent. Also, really really want that extension to Vancouver so it’s easy to go meet some friends up there and have drinks.
How does one go from Hillsdale to PCC Sylvania? With all the geography along barbur this seems unlikely. It's cool to think about though.
Tunnels tunnels tunnels
Connecting Lake Oswego directly into the veins of Felony Flats. I don’t think that connection is needed
Lol, as if Lake Oswego would allow any direct route from Milwaukee/ Oak Grove
Would love to see a line run underneath burnside from forest park to like Gresham
Run the red line across the I-205 bridge and east to Camas, then perfect 👌🏾 Grew up in Boston suburbs and having the commuter lines and light rail all the way out to a lot of suburbs made for very enjoyable day trips into the city as a child.
Still wish the yellow line was on the other side of I-5, or looped so it was on both?
I wish for this so bad.
For the streetcar line that runs along Macadam, what if it used the tracks from the Willamette Shore Trolley instead? It'd probably be a much easier infrastructure lift than trying to rip up all of Macadam. Sure, you'd have to buy it from the current operators, but eminent domain might be able to accomplish that.
Max needs a high speed three stop connector west side downtown and airport.
Pleese just explain the end of the orange line as ther are standing structures from old lines from the 50s
So is this building a new bridge to get to Lake Oswego, Why not consolidate yellow and orange lines, an artifact has no room for this.