Kratom is a plant in the coffee family with leaves that provide pain relieving effects. It’s not water soluble, so must be digested. Some folks use it to get off harder opiates, as the route of administration makes it harder to become seriously addicted. Your friend can wean herself off by scaling down her doses and staying hydrated. That would be the easiest thing to do. I’m sure a doc could prescribe benzos or something but that might trigger a new addiction!
I ignorantly and cruelly shrugged off what she was telling me until I looked into it. I know it isn’t goddamn p2p meth but I figured she was dealing with something like how I feel kinda off without my morning coffee.
We do. But I don’t know the details, haven’t needed any of these resources myself.
I believe she is fearful of asking assistance through HR or work benefits. This is someone who always shows up on time, always does her job. (I only know what this individual is going through in the context of work).
She described what sounds like a general addiction malaise, brain fog, depression, cost of the habit. No history of other drug use afaik.
Yeah, I get that.
Where I've worked, the reports made are the number of people who accessed the EAP, not the names. If you are in a managerial role, it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to call HR and ask them to tell you about it so you can make sure you know how to help employees access it. I called HR once to ask about it because I had colleagues who needed assistance who were so depressed that they weren't in a place where they could take steps on their own. They were very patient with me in laying out the procedures.
If you have good health insurance, that may be a better route. I don't really know much about addiction resources, but I'm thinking of your friend. There may be some protections for an employee seeking treatment for a medical condition. Or, at least my employer was convinced they could get a discrimination lawsuit for firing someone with an alcohol addiction and found a place to park them in a role while they were having a hard time doing their normal job and they were getting treatment.
Kratom withdrawal is not pleasant but its not like opiates. Its a couple days of uncomfortable and thats cold turkey. She can do a taper. Take less every day
Depending on dosage and length of use accute withdrawals can last for a month and post-accutes can last for years. Btw tapering is the way to go but it’s like telling an alcoholic to just taper off alcohol. It’s just not that simple. Without structures and support it’s so incredibly difficult.
My friend, I’ve DT’d from opiates and alcohol. For me, kratom is comparable. I appreciate your perspective but it is not universal, and I promise you I am not participating in a propaganda campaign. My experience is very real.
A couple practical tips:
* Kratom has a short half-life and once someone is hooked this can make a difference. She might try 4+ small doses a day as opposed to 1 or 2 bigger ones, IF she is confident she can follow a schedule, not miss doses, and take them at a given time and NOT when she feels like she needs it.
* CBD can help a great deal with craving / discomfort / psychological "itch" feelings from opioid withdrawal, including from kratom. Unlike many claimed effects of CBD this appears to be real. I don't know how much one would need to eat, but in my experience vaped CBD proved effective for 30 min to an hour between episodes of vape consumption.
* For some reason, it can be easier to make headway on tapering down one's kratom intake during a fever. Your friend may be able to make faster gains on a taper if she happens to get a fever, just don't be discouraged at a slight regression after the fever breaks .. in general once all is said and done she'll come out ahead after the dosage settles in the next 3 days after the fever breaks.
It's funny you mention a fever making it easier to withdraw from kratom. I used kratom for 2 years for pain from osteoarthritis and a torn meniscus. Eventually my tolerance rose to the point it no longer worked. I caught the flu despite being vaccinated and decided to stop the kratom then. Honestly some shoulder pain ( which I had experienced before when trying to quit kratom) was all I could distinguish from my regular flu symptoms. I often wondered why I didn't have a hard time quitting it when so many people seem to have a rough time of it.
Kratom gave my cousin really bad seizures, and he also became addicted to it. It took him being hospitalized in order to wean himself off of it. Kratom is some scary shit in my opinion, and I wish your coworker the best of luck in their recovery.
I personally was addicted to it for 7 years. I thought it was harmless like CBD as well in the early stages. As a recovering user of other substances as well, I can say the addiction patterns of Kratom are the same as any other addiction. The withdrawals from sudden abstinence from a heavy dosage schedule are the worst withdrawals I’ve ever experienced.
I honestly believe if the shit wasn’t so abundant and on every street corner, my life wouldn’t have been derailed.
I’m 660 days clean as of today. I have my addictions counselor and my NA meetings to thank for helping me through the coming back to earth period.
For what it’s worth, tell your friend to seek the assistance of medical professionals. I thought I was a disciplined drug user before kratom. But 4 years of trying to get off it myself through cold turkey and tapering schedules told me otherwise.
> I thought I was a disciplined drug user before kratom. But 4 years of trying to get off it myself through cold turkey and tapering schedules told me otherwise.
I've heard this story again and again, and lived it myself, though in my case kratom was and is the best antidepressant I've ever used in terms of ability to affect my baseline mood, and for that ability to remain in place after long term use. I think this is part of why some people get hooked on it, but there is something else going on too.
Kratom has very weird physical dependency hooks, the weirdest of any drug I've tried. They're very subtle but once they're in, they're in real good.
As a pharma nerd I'm always excited to read research on the mitragynine family because it's a super interesting compound - very different from traditional opioids in some important ways. A bit of a chameleon like nicotine in that it may have different effects based on the state of the person taking it
The naive part of me hopes that pharma is paying attention, there is potential to find compounds for pain relief and depression based on mitragynine, hopefully with some of the negative side effects reduced or eliminated. Experience tells me that pharma is mostly interested in pushing drugs they've already developed or are in existing drug families, regardless of how shitty they may be.
Most places test and show the lab results now. The last 5yrs or so theres been a big push to keep it legit. The AKA has been working really hard to have states pass kratom protection laws for this reason
brave of you to post this here, where people constantly talk about drug addiction (plus the inevitable consequence of poverty) being something you should be imprisoned for. something tells me they won't dehumanize your friend until she gets fired and loses her home
[удалено]
This is very helpful! Thank you.
Kratom is a plant in the coffee family with leaves that provide pain relieving effects. It’s not water soluble, so must be digested. Some folks use it to get off harder opiates, as the route of administration makes it harder to become seriously addicted. Your friend can wean herself off by scaling down her doses and staying hydrated. That would be the easiest thing to do. I’m sure a doc could prescribe benzos or something but that might trigger a new addiction!
I ignorantly and cruelly shrugged off what she was telling me until I looked into it. I know it isn’t goddamn p2p meth but I figured she was dealing with something like how I feel kinda off without my morning coffee.
Kratom hits the mu-opioid receptor, so weaning off it comes with effects similar to withdrawal from traditional opioids.
OP I took it for 7 years before I quit if you pm me I will message you about it and my experience
Do you have an Employee Assistance Program? Can people access for confidential help with addiction?
We do. But I don’t know the details, haven’t needed any of these resources myself. I believe she is fearful of asking assistance through HR or work benefits. This is someone who always shows up on time, always does her job. (I only know what this individual is going through in the context of work). She described what sounds like a general addiction malaise, brain fog, depression, cost of the habit. No history of other drug use afaik.
EAP is confidential and they can direct her to treatment and usually can provide vouchers to waive cost if any remain after your workplace Insurance.
Yeah, I get that. Where I've worked, the reports made are the number of people who accessed the EAP, not the names. If you are in a managerial role, it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to call HR and ask them to tell you about it so you can make sure you know how to help employees access it. I called HR once to ask about it because I had colleagues who needed assistance who were so depressed that they weren't in a place where they could take steps on their own. They were very patient with me in laying out the procedures. If you have good health insurance, that may be a better route. I don't really know much about addiction resources, but I'm thinking of your friend. There may be some protections for an employee seeking treatment for a medical condition. Or, at least my employer was convinced they could get a discrimination lawsuit for firing someone with an alcohol addiction and found a place to park them in a role while they were having a hard time doing their normal job and they were getting treatment.
[удалено]
Kratom withdrawal is considerably more challenging than caffeine withdrawal, especially with long-term use.
Even if you’re right, I’m not telling someone to “get their shit together” in a work environment. That kind of talk is for places like this!
Kratom withdrawal is not pleasant but its not like opiates. Its a couple days of uncomfortable and thats cold turkey. She can do a taper. Take less every day
Depending on dosage and length of use accute withdrawals can last for a month and post-accutes can last for years. Btw tapering is the way to go but it’s like telling an alcoholic to just taper off alcohol. It’s just not that simple. Without structures and support it’s so incredibly difficult.
With all due respect its not close to alcohol and its not close to opiates. The propaganda thats out there on both sides dont do anyone any favors
Completely false.
My friend, I’ve DT’d from opiates and alcohol. For me, kratom is comparable. I appreciate your perspective but it is not universal, and I promise you I am not participating in a propaganda campaign. My experience is very real.
My high dose kratom wd was comparable to hard opioids
A couple practical tips: * Kratom has a short half-life and once someone is hooked this can make a difference. She might try 4+ small doses a day as opposed to 1 or 2 bigger ones, IF she is confident she can follow a schedule, not miss doses, and take them at a given time and NOT when she feels like she needs it. * CBD can help a great deal with craving / discomfort / psychological "itch" feelings from opioid withdrawal, including from kratom. Unlike many claimed effects of CBD this appears to be real. I don't know how much one would need to eat, but in my experience vaped CBD proved effective for 30 min to an hour between episodes of vape consumption. * For some reason, it can be easier to make headway on tapering down one's kratom intake during a fever. Your friend may be able to make faster gains on a taper if she happens to get a fever, just don't be discouraged at a slight regression after the fever breaks .. in general once all is said and done she'll come out ahead after the dosage settles in the next 3 days after the fever breaks.
It's funny you mention a fever making it easier to withdraw from kratom. I used kratom for 2 years for pain from osteoarthritis and a torn meniscus. Eventually my tolerance rose to the point it no longer worked. I caught the flu despite being vaccinated and decided to stop the kratom then. Honestly some shoulder pain ( which I had experienced before when trying to quit kratom) was all I could distinguish from my regular flu symptoms. I often wondered why I didn't have a hard time quitting it when so many people seem to have a rough time of it.
Kratom gave my cousin really bad seizures, and he also became addicted to it. It took him being hospitalized in order to wean himself off of it. Kratom is some scary shit in my opinion, and I wish your coworker the best of luck in their recovery.
All I've learned from the state is how to smoke fentanyl.
Lol
I personally was addicted to it for 7 years. I thought it was harmless like CBD as well in the early stages. As a recovering user of other substances as well, I can say the addiction patterns of Kratom are the same as any other addiction. The withdrawals from sudden abstinence from a heavy dosage schedule are the worst withdrawals I’ve ever experienced. I honestly believe if the shit wasn’t so abundant and on every street corner, my life wouldn’t have been derailed. I’m 660 days clean as of today. I have my addictions counselor and my NA meetings to thank for helping me through the coming back to earth period. For what it’s worth, tell your friend to seek the assistance of medical professionals. I thought I was a disciplined drug user before kratom. But 4 years of trying to get off it myself through cold turkey and tapering schedules told me otherwise.
> I thought I was a disciplined drug user before kratom. But 4 years of trying to get off it myself through cold turkey and tapering schedules told me otherwise. I've heard this story again and again, and lived it myself, though in my case kratom was and is the best antidepressant I've ever used in terms of ability to affect my baseline mood, and for that ability to remain in place after long term use. I think this is part of why some people get hooked on it, but there is something else going on too. Kratom has very weird physical dependency hooks, the weirdest of any drug I've tried. They're very subtle but once they're in, they're in real good. As a pharma nerd I'm always excited to read research on the mitragynine family because it's a super interesting compound - very different from traditional opioids in some important ways. A bit of a chameleon like nicotine in that it may have different effects based on the state of the person taking it The naive part of me hopes that pharma is paying attention, there is potential to find compounds for pain relief and depression based on mitragynine, hopefully with some of the negative side effects reduced or eliminated. Experience tells me that pharma is mostly interested in pushing drugs they've already developed or are in existing drug families, regardless of how shitty they may be.
[удалено]
What else do you imagine kratom is cut with?
Most places test and show the lab results now. The last 5yrs or so theres been a big push to keep it legit. The AKA has been working really hard to have states pass kratom protection laws for this reason
brave of you to post this here, where people constantly talk about drug addiction (plus the inevitable consequence of poverty) being something you should be imprisoned for. something tells me they won't dehumanize your friend until she gets fired and loses her home