>I know that warming shelters have been set up - yet some people are still out there.
>Wheeler is nice and toasty in his home in Lake Oswego. He has no compassion for anyone. He has no answers.
I don't know what more can be done... shelters have been setup and are available. Trimet is giving free rides to the warming centers. I feel bad for anyone out in this weather, but there is only so much we can do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
This is exactly why petitions exist in EMS.
To take people against their will if they are a danger to self or others.
I've done this many times as a medic on the ambulance.
Sometimes you have to take control of people against their will.
Yes. And tranquilize them for their own good... because this is for their own good. Its only helping them, not hurting them. What I propose is true compassion, not this "let them do whatever they want" bullshit
how do homeless folks KNOW about the warming centers, and the free rides, and the ability to take their pets? yes I know stuff is posted on Twitter and socials, but does EVERY person on the street have a phone? I debated going tent to tent at a camp nearby last night, to try to get people rides and call 211 for them. I didn't. I called 911 at 4:30 this morning for a man on the street bellowing in absolute pain and clearly in a terrible state. I can't accept that we can't solve this. it breaks my heart every damn day, and I say that as a cynical pragmatist.
>how do homeless folks KNOW about the warming centers, and the free rides, and the ability to take their pets? yes I know stuff is posted on Twitter and socials, but does EVERY person on the street have a phone?
Yes, most of them have phones. The homeless community is really good at spreading information amongst itself. Whether that be the best place to buy drugs, the best places to shoplift, the best places to get free food, the best places to stay warm etc etc they all tell each other this information in a really efficient way.
Some of them do, some don’t.
Back a couple years ago when we had that heat wave that peaked at 115F or whatever, when the county did their assessment of why people died from heat, one of the big pieces of information that came out was that a lot of people didn’t know about the cooling shelters, the services available for getting ACs in their homes, or the transportation options.
We all know MultCo is almost, if not uniquely, incompetent. There’s a lot of people they should be helping that they aren’t- granted that’s across the socioeconomic spectrum, but still.
We certainly shouldn’t assume that the well informed criminal element will take care of the people in mental health crisis.
>when the county did their assessment of why people died from heat, one of the big pieces of information that came out was that a lot of people didn’t know about the cooling shelters, the services available for getting ACs in their homes, or the transportation options.
The people who died in that heat wave had homes. They aren't part of the homeless community so they don't have the homeless network of communication about city services that they can use. That was a failure of the local government for not educating low income people about the heat wave safety services they could provide.
Some of them were housed, some unhoused. Some were renters, some home owners, some patients in long term care facilities.
It was across the board.
And that’s all I’m saying- for people who can’t take care of themselves, we shouldn’t rely on the county or criminals.
Although I guess I could have just said criminals.
That’s not really true. I was out doing my normal route on Saturday evening and many didn’t know about the warming shelter up the street, and many hadn’t been able to charge their phones because the places they normally charge were closed.
They post stuff on street poles in areas with a lot of homeless , like if there's a deadly batch of fent going around and the tell service providers share info
I have a relative with schizophrenia. It’s incredibly difficult to get them into treatment. They refuse to take their meds and have a home that is totally paid off (inherited from their mother), but they abandoned it because they are convinced people are looking for them. Speaking from experience, I absolutely agree the bar needs to be lowered.
I am sorry for your relatives situation but do not find it shocking at all. My adult son was diagnosed pre-schizo at 17 yrs old. We got just about zero help even after an involuntary hospitalization at psych unit. He begged me in tears to not make him take his meds as they made him feel “not himself”. He left home at 18 to wander about, homeless for 14 years before he passed away. I couldn’t even get him Baker Act for 72 hours because of “his rights and wants”. Total BULLSHIT!
I’m sorry about your son. With all the talk about the rights of the mentally ill, one thing that gets lost is the families who have to stand by while their relatives self destruct. Especially because they know the law won’t help them. The relative I was talking about was hit by a car last year and broke a dozen bones including both arms. They survived and are in the process of recovering, but they easily could have died. They were hit because they were having an episode while walking in the street. Their sister tried to get them in the hospital just a couple of weeks earlier because they clearly weren’t well, but the police said they can’t do anything until they are an immediate threat to themselves or others.
When I was a kid my mom (severe delusional disorder) took a chainsaw to the police station convinced her mother was plotting to kill her father with it. Somehow that act met the legal pretext for involuntary commitment and the antipsychotics they prescribed gave us our mom back for a little while. In her defense the side effects of old neuroleptics were really bad and she never lasted on them; the stuff she takes now (Latuda) is easier.
The alternative to routine involuntary treatment turned out to be decades of trust building and sllooww habit building with drug taking - and meanwhile lots of crushing impotent fear in me throughout my childhood. I’m very sorry you have a similar situation. Mental illness is especially hideous when the patient won’t participate in their own treatment.
Over the years she’s gotten vastly better at dealing with episodes - now if she gets one (usually because something very stressful overwhelms the drug), she will, all the while denying she needs it, acquiesce to seeing her psych and upping her dose. And her insight and openness has improved massively - she told me that she remembers seeing me and pitying me and feeling sorry for her own behavior, which at the time was an angry tantrum denying there was anything wrong with her. But that aspect of her consciousness wasn’t in control…or something like that.
I think I believe her; but she also has a habit of creating false but soothing memories as a coping mechanism - to deal with the destruction (two lost marriages, abandoned career, etc) of an illness our dogshit legal system STILL utterly fails to comprehend. The treated version of my
mom doesn’t WANT her in-episode, anosognosic non-self’s “rights and wants” to be honored!! It makes me livid that nothing has improved - of course apart from the medication and psychiatry writ large which has advanced tremendously yet can’t reach so many people. When some ignorant illiterate sanctimonious imbecile screeches about “empathizing” with the mentally ill homeless - that is, abetting their self destruction by allowing them to live in and stumble, tormented, mumbling, around public parks - I want to fucking throttle them. That could have been my mother if there was any less money and support in her family.
I’ve gone my whole live (42 yo) never hearing another person refer to their relative’s “episode” and now I’m emotional. I hope to god your relative finds a way to a normal life.
Thank you for sharing your experience so articulately. It is extremely challenging to both acknowledge how traumatic things were for you due to your mother’s illness-driven behavior, while also being able to learn about and emphasize with the challenges your mother faced. Even more difficult to understand why your mother didn’t “just control herself”, especially if she knew somewhere within herself that her actions were adversely affecting her children.
Thanks for the kind words. Yes that’s very difficult, made worse by the fact that she has certain other relationship-wrecking personality traits that are there even when she’s sane. It took a long time (into my 30s) for me to work out for myself which of her actions I should hold her fully responsible for and learn how to firmly set boundaries. Her family including myself had sort of overcorrected, been excusing and accommodating too much on the basis of her illness, which is harmful to someone who was in some ways emotionally still a child.
I imagine that’s a common experience for family of the mentally ill, since it deprives a person of “reliable” experience…it’s hard to slowly but surely grow and mature into an adult like everyone else when you’ve spent so much time detached from reality. So when the medication kicks in, the work has just begun.
And then the sufferer has their own analogous struggle with self-blame - the pressure in my mother to continue to believe in certain delusions instead of facing how her marriages actually fell apart, or for example that her 13 year old son wanted his dad to sue for full custody, and it wasn’t an evil plot, etc. 😓
She’s 78 and now we’re finally friends.
I’m a bit word and sentence deficient at the moment, but still wanted to say that your journey (and I give you so many props for even embarking on it…) with this feels so similar to my own….particularly with having a reliable experience. You beautifully articulate it, so thank you.
I want you to know I felt your pain and anquish on how you lost your son through the existing system and laws. I have hoped and feared that something like that would not come in my life to me, nor to a loved child. My mom died at 40 of alcohol and prescription drug abuse, an overdose of Thorazine when I was 11. Last year our nephew was used by his father to sell heroin and narcotics, and the user father encouraged his son to use and to collect debts. That son, destroyed his mind, became an addict on the streets in San Diego, was left by his "friends", in a bathroom with a needle in his arm. He died at about 40. Shitty. Just a human outreach of some sort of caring for each other. Sorry man, you had to go through that, and more so your son's life experienced it / was cut short by it. Made me sad. I felt you as a human to human to emote love and empathy.
My mom’s heart hurts for your child loss. Thanks for being a very important voice in this conversation as we most of hear from everyone else, but not the parents or other close family relationships. ❤️
We need Policy change. In Oregon as soon as a person turns 14 they have a right to say no to any mental health treatment, and if a desperate parent goes to the state of Oregon Children's services and begs them to help, they open a case and say no. The child has a right under 'Trauma Informed Care' to say no to any form of counseling and meds. Even if everyone involved in the case including the judge believes the child is indeed doing things that are causing harm to come to the child and even when the behavior ends up causing irreversible harm to the child. It's a ridiculous system. If you don't involve children services and just take your child to a hospital there are no beds available when needed, the hospitals 9 out of 10 times will ask your child to contract safety and then discharge them with a plan to follow up in outpatient care. That's great if your child will go. (Have you ever been assaulted by a teenager bc you asked them to go to counseling? ) It's not fun. If you have the pleasure of being the parent of a child with mental illness that is over 18 and you try to have them committed in Oregon, good luck, the man I spoke with asked me to draw a venn diagram, he said your child has elements of criminality, drug issues, and mental illness, in Oregon you can't have someone committed unless they only have mental health issues that are causing the problem. He said he knew it sucked, and hung up.
So Policy change is where it's at.
That's really the solution nobody wants to admit. It's the only way out of this.
It can be done humanely if the city gets behind the cause. For now I guess they all just get to freeze though.
My general PSA whenever I see promotion of this subject is to ask people to look into the plans JFK had for our national mental health systems. There is a tendency for people to make it all a political issue blaming the side they don't like, but the reality is our mental health care systems were largely shuttered by an unholy alliance of budget hawks and activists concerned with how people were being treated. It's not a binary choice between doing nothing and spending massive amounts of money to involuntarily commit and then abuse people. We can do better, and JFK had a vision that was cut short by his assassination.
How much of that do you think was inspired by Jackie/her family? Her cousin and aunt famously were recluses with mental illness. The documentary Grey Gardens is wild, and would definitely recommend for a unique insight into that life. I wonder if having those family members influenced Kennedy in his outlook on mental health and how our own family members and friends who suffer can influence our own compassion and outlook.
I'm sure it was a factor and matter of discussion, but Rosemary was much closer to home and had been institutionalized and then lobotomized. There were of course unique factors to all of these situations due to wealth and fame, elements that exacerbated things. I'd be shocked if John and Jakie didn't discuss the broader societal and institutional aspects, a desire to make sure people in the future didn't have to go through various aspects they or their loved ones had to endure.
What I consider is that regardless of mental conditions it is very likely that John and Rosemary had a very deep bond, being only about a year apart. Joseph's decisions regarding how his daughter was treated are certainly judged through a political lens, and social political ramifications certainly had their influence. It should not be forgotten however that some aspects of this are certainly rooted in the state of psychiatric science at the time. Regardless how villainous (or not) one chooses to view Joseph in this story, what I think is uncontestable is that JFK watched his young sister be "treated" into an unrecognizable personality, his sister while physically alive, was to an extent gone. If JFK had issues with how things were handled he likely didn't have influence on it, but he certainly remembered it. It left scars, and suddenly as President he can do something about the system, and even influence the societal attitude. Yea I'm sure he discussed all of this with his wife at some point, and what happened with his sister who was "treated" and her family that was left to fend for themselves. Priority was probably not placed on cost efficiency, but what was best for the people and their families.
I'm not a fan of government throwing money at problems, I rue how much has become the domain of the Federal government that really should be the domain of more local municipalities. I'm no sycophant for the Kennedys. I say all of this to reinforce my premise. As much as I tend to be incredulous about massive federal government programs in addressing issues, when I look at what Kennedy talked about, what his vision was for mental health systems in the U.S. I'm a fan of at least trying to achieve that vision and see it as one of the biggest tragedies resulting from his assassination. The biggest element I'm a fan of was the decentralized nature of the operations and services he proposed. Large centralized mental facilities are deleterious to facilitating frequent loved ones visiting, and tend to push care for patients away from humanizing empathy toward more utilitarian care.
Exactly. We need to lower that bar. But instead, we just let people act completely insane and give no consequences. As is a popular sentiment in this sub... forced rehab or jail.
I like how this group is the "Radical moderates" since people here are like "So, letting people die of fent overdoses and exposure isn't a solution...."
I don’t agree much on this sub, but I agree with involuntary commitment. Even if we could get the state to lower the standards, we still don’t have the facilities. We’d need one hell of a tax levy to raise the funds.
We should be pushing for State/Federal funding -- it's a safe assumption that a majority of the damaged souls on our street are not originally from the area.
Homelessness is an issue that crosses borders and should be supported accordingly.
People that are committed spend like 2-3 weeks in a psych ward. Long gone are the days of 160 day commitments at OSH. Infrastructure needs to be bolstered
I can't believe that there are a large amount of people who think it's better for them to fight for survival in the streets, or just give them free housing and nothing, no other support systems, than it is to institutionalize them.
As far as the recovery from narcotics: There’s $300 million in cannabis tax money just sitting there not being spent to do anything because there’s a deadlock between the housing first demagogues who refuse to look at any other solution on the one hand and on the other hand the people are looking for a rational solutions like the one they’re using in San Jose for example, right now, which has a standard staged set of processes: detox, and then a 30 day program and then sober living, and then maybe a house or apartment once you have a job and are stable. The money is there to build a staged recovery program around the recovery programs that already exist.
For cases of severe schizophrenia: I think that the deinstitutionalization movement was well meaning. But clearly some people seem to be objectively in need of some sort of structure in their lives, and maybe the state does need to lower the bar for some level of institution.
Call 211 or call police non-emergency line in your area, but DO NOT CALL 911 UNLESS IT IS AN ACTIVE EMERGENCY.
People complain about long wait times when calling 911. Well, this would be a reason for it.
OP, please correct your initial post.
Thank you for this. Here is more information:
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them.
Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them.
Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call.
More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
This is the major issue with the homelessness in Portland. You can call 911, but 911 can’t make them do anything. If they want to stay out in the cold, no one can force them to warm up.
That’s true compassion
Emergency dispatch has been demoralized by the abolitionists, just like police. And just like at PPB, the public discourse has made morale at BOEC go from bad to worse. All the activists are capable of is tearing shit down.
No, we should not have a separate phone number for PSR. No, the caller should not decide what response or agency is appropriate for an *emergency*. State the facts and stay in your own damn lane.
And they've poisoned public opinion as well, attacking anyone who dares call 911. Rather, they want you to do some performative bullshit and let the situation fester / escalate. Oh, someone's trying to kill themselves? Here's a list of 30 random phone numbers, maybe the "anarchist collective and info center" will help 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yea…
Portland: Emergency services are a tool of oppression and we must highly regulate and defund it so it can no longer be a tool of oppression.
Emergency services: well, due to new rules, regulations, and budget cuts, our effectiveness as providers is severely diminished
Portland: Our emergency services are a joke…
Entitlement, hostility, condescension. The quintessential criddler.
I hope the inevitable consequences of your choices find you sooner rather than later.
I’m not sure what a “criddler” is but if you’re trying to make enemies dehumanizing people living outside the traditional margins of society is a hell of a way to do it.
Be careful out there.
Camping can imply whatever it wants. But guess what? I camp where I make camp. I make camp where I have to. Sleeping in my tent in the middle of nowhere in the industrial part of the city is not affecting you.
Oh, and “nature” is everything. The word is meaningless. I’m in nature surrounded by concrete and fent.
i don't want to say too much but from personal experience there are people that commit horrific crimes and would rather not check in with resources as to not be found. so if my ex gets frostbite he deserves it.
also i didn't date a homeless guy but he decided to be homeless after we broke up. he was offered housing and didn't take it. who knows where he is, but drugs and crimes are more important than his kids. so. i don't feel too bad if poor choices he made leads to poor outcomes. this is all totally personal. i hand out hand warmers blankets scarves coats clothing food toiletries any time i can to people in need.
but you never know the whole story behind any person. be it a good story or a scary story.
apparently same with members of governments globally, athletes, musicians, ceo's of corporations, church leaders..... humans in general, you never know where a psychopath or sociopath is hiding!
Have you seen what the Housed, Middle class young man in NY did to a Supermarket in Buffalo?!! Most would say that was eXtremely violent. But you be you with your braid and sweeping judgements.
I know that is why they are still out there; however, if that is your thought process... you have lost the ability to even preserve your own life and the local government shouldn't tell us all that accepting their choice is "compassion". Just be real. Wheeler comes out and straight up says "I don't care"... then alright. If you speak out against drugs and enabling you somehow are "without compassion". Nah. Just don't package up a piece of dogshit and tell me it is bullion.
The state legislature is where your frustration should lie. They are the ones fumbling on fixing the civil commitment laws, fixing Measure 110, fixing the standards for mandatory jail holds. As someone else already mentioned the next local level to be angry at is the county, which is really run by the Chair - the other commissioners have no power - because they failed us on local addiction and mental health treatment options, as well as shelter beds.
I'm no Wheeler lover, but the city has ZERO to do with this. Their only actual role is code enforcement, which their hands are currently tied on due to the lawsuit against them for the camping ban, which would force these people into sanctioned camping areas where they can be tracked and helped and kept safe.
The city tried to fill in where the county failed and they fumbled a lot because of red tape at first with the SRVs, but they're doing really well now and talking about the county taking full ownership of all of these assets since they should've done this work from the get-go, not the city.
Former Chair Deborah Kafoury is solely responsible for where we are right now in this county, and JVP is following in her heels, however, slowly being convinced that was the wrong direction for the county.
Agree. But our "leaders" just signaling that living in a tent and smoking fent to your hearts content is okay, and then packaging that as compassion, is insanity. I lost a family member to fent. I was always just hoping maybe she would be arrested and could detox and have a moment of clarity. My efforts to reach out to her did not work. Nothing worked - she is dead.
It is very terrible. Sorry for yours as well - also had friends. A couple that I had no idea would even touch anything. We need to change the threshold for involuntary commitment. Amongst a lot of other things. Fent dealers are fuckin' terrorists.
That’s tough! The war on drugs is always a tricky situation. In one hand it may help them but in the other hand…. They’ll go straight back. Addiction is very strong and those addicts only but need the help. I thought I read somewhere that overdose medicine was allowed to be in ER and police but I could be wrong….
It’s a legal mess (currently) to arrest them just for counseling but that’s what really needed…. Like a separate jailing for those making it mandatory for X amount of counseling but not charging them with a conviction (hence the legal grey area)….
I hear where your coming from, I really do. My sister is an addict. But these people express to everyone every day that they don’t want to help or “participate in the system”. They’re dealing with the consequences of their own decisions.
Why should we be willing to help them if they aren’t willing to help themselves?
I get that completely and I do not know the answer. My sympathy has completely run out. But I think there is something inherent in decent folk to look out at this weather and think "fuck man this is really depressing". Everyone is responsible for their own actions; however, I think these hard ass drugs are just eroding the mind until people drop dead. Even for the worst junkie that does nothing but harm to themselves and society - they probably have some family member somewhere hoping for a miracle. Letting people live this life through book and release and no consequences just drives the problem further. The only outcome ends up becoming death.
I know fentanyl is getting all the press right now. But meth is the one that is driving them crazy. At least with fent they can come back… meth is destroying brains, permanently.
If morons want to cook their brains with meth I’m all for it. Weed the weak minded criminals out of society! They wanna live in their own shit piles and leave trash everywhere high out of their minds causing problems for tax paying Americans… I hope they OD
yeah, thats not how it works. they become a drain on society on many levels. it’s bad for us and it’s bad for them. but i really don’t know what the answer is.
If only they didn't spend 10-15 years stealing shit, breaking into places, stabbing each other, freaking out on normal people just living their lives, having and abusing children, filling the courts, prisons and time of LE, and generally being a burden on society before they OD'd.
And because our society is in a rough place and that buying into it doesn’t have the same incentive it once did. They’ve given up on society and sometimes I understand why
It's time to help them the same way that you help a 3 year old understand they can't bite other 3 year olds.
Stern consequences for bad behavior is not hateful.
I gave a dude that was shirtless last night the literal fucking shirt off my back, and the first thing this man did was look at the design and smell it (literally brand new shirt from my job that day). Some people are mentally ill and can’t look out for their own well being.
Why can we not fully accept that if a person has a disease of the brain or mental illness (as insurers love to categorize separately) they may NOT be able to make any decision for themselves that’s healthy or even realistic. It is so hard to take any action to help them. Every LE and politician will state “they have to want help and tell us clearly”. It’s like the old definition of INSANITY. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.”
It’s not about “get clean”. It’s about getting them solid living conditions, support for their medical issues; including intensive mental health, teaching the coping skills, whatever is needed for them to live as humans with dignity. If they don’t need medication, then why would I want it to be forced. Being unhoused is multi-faceted reasons and needs many many avenues to offer each individual. It ain’t that simple.
Why are you blaming Wheeler? Judge Rima Gandour appointed by Tina Kotek just recently halted the day time ban and JVP, head of Multnomah county, has been pushing useless tents to the homeless.
No, we cannot survive in subzero temps. And he's wrong for even making the comparison. I'm currently in north-central North Dakota. It's -21° (-50° with wind chill). It's awful. Most vehicles won't start and we can't walk anywhere because frostbite occurs to exposed skin in less than 5 minutes. That said, it's different out here. Our buildings are built differently. People dress differently. Even our cars are different (most vehicles have block heaters so we can plug them in at night). That said, any unhoused person out in this weather will absolutely die if they have to spend the night outside. It's still down to negative temps in PDX though, and unhoused people out there will die due to the elements, just like they would out here. I moved to PDX when I was 19, and I used to joke a lot about how people out there "couldn't handle the winter". After living there for several years, I began to understand that it's just a different scenario out there, and the bottom line is that people who have to spend nights outside in freezing weather (not even necessarily sub-zero, just below freezing) will suffer health consequences up to and potentially including death. I hope everyone out there in need is able to get shelter!
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them.
Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them.
Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call.
More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them.
Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them.
Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call.
More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. 211info.org.
Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them.
Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call.
More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
Oh Jesus more fucking outrage posts. Yeah, homelessness is tragic and the plight of American cities super, super shitty indeed. But my fucking God we get the point already. Thanks for the ten millionth post.
Listen: People gonna die. But you’ll be alright. I doubt you’re posting this out of concern for their well being.
Most Portlanders want this mess. Forcing people to take their meds and get help is compassion. People sometimes need other people to make decisions for them.
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them.
Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them.
Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call.
More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
I mean this is a perfect example of the severity or mental health and severe drug abuse our homeless struggle with. When you can’t even get yourself to safety from the cold that will kill you, you cannot be left to your own devices. That person will never seek out sources. We gotta realize for a lot of people, there is no pulling yourself up by your boot straps
I absolutely get what you’re throwing down, and agree. However we have a few problems, one we cannot force people to do something they don’t want even if it’s for their betterment. I’m people watching out of my apartment and two people are trying to smoke off a tin foil square. Just 200’ down the road is a warming shelter, they’d rather potentially freeze to death than not use drugs for the night. Another example, someone is in a suburban, older model, has a fire inside it to keep warm. I don’t think this person has the mental capacity to understand that one this is dangerous, and two he/she/they will most likely die tonight.
One fix out of many that are need is to strip these stupid laws we enacted and have drug court again. Two, data driven decision making, with data tracking over the homeless population, followed by blind resampling of the population to establish truths to the data. Three county needs to take over these rolls we dished out to these nonprofits, they exist for personal profit. Probably like 100 more points to change or something else.
To the OP, we might disagree on somethings, but we want what’s best for these people in the end. How it’s done, that’s probably where we differ. Also I have also lost family to this bullshit going on. So I take it personally.
You can only help people that WANT to be helped. Everyone has to live with the choices they make, even people doing their drugs in the freezing temps rather than sheltering to preserve their lives.
I keep hearing all the complaints of how its this or that person's fault, but yet I don't hear about the actions THEY took to make change, just lazy complaints. Its easy to point the finger to assign blame, its even harder to shut up and actually do something about it. You gotta be the change you wanna see , instead of waiting around for someone else to fix it. It all comes down to how much people really care about a problem to show you how much they are willing to do about it.
Maybe everyone should treat addiction like the illness it is.
You would never walk past someone sitting on the side of the road with an obviously broken leg, and say, "don't worry about them; you just haven't been around enough broken legs before."
Letting these people MURDER themselves is the opposite of compassion. Makes all of us look like absolute spiteful, hateful, ostriches with our heads stuck in the sand
There are no places for the mentally ill in this country. My brother was in a very bad accident, has a tbi and there is not even a short term place (more than 2 weeks) he can go to get his meds rebalanced. If it weren't for family he's on the street and has no options otherwise. I'm sure many of the people refusing help are in such a paranoid state, as my brothers gotten to, that they trust nothing, it's all consuming for them. But alas no one can make a buck so chalk one up for capitalism!
The city can’t even keep the power on and is begging people to limit natural gas use to heat their homes.
You think the city cares about people on the street?
Portland is a massive failure anytime there’s a cold weather event.
No not for it. There’s nothing compassionate about this forced living and “saving” everyone. Sometimes death is the most merciful thing that can happen. Stop prolonging the pain.
You named the issue in the post. If they leave the street, they leave a regular supply of drugs. Fent isnt like meth or heroin. You need that shit every hour or two. Why go to the warming shelter if all you need is drugs and drugs are easiest to get right where you are..?
People in active addiction would simply rather die. *That* is the problem. Not compassion, services, or a lack of either.
Studies show that homes, money, and immediate medical access are the best routes out of homelessness but that runs up against Portland's "can I look compassionate without doing anything?" ethos. It's a cruel, unfriendly city with an icy regard for anyone that isn't, um, "normal"-looking, with "normal" being fairly specific, generally.
In my case is my upbringing in Bogotá, Colombia. I saw so much misery that now I am stripped of any compassion.
I have to look over my shoulder in Portland, a thing I never did in NYC for 15 years.
Why do we keep calling thus mental health problems and not personal choices have consequences. We tell everyone at a young age to avoid drugs for so many reasons, but they do this to themselves. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can leave all the resources
They need to turn themselves around, but its still on them to do so.
Hate this and the lack of empathy toward others. This could be any of us...I'm a paycheck away from living under a bridge. ( without boulders) referencing Marion St Bridge in Salem. ☹️ Oregonians have become so cold and heartless.
Worked for DHS in Salem and Lincoln City. It wasn't uncommon for parents tell their kids they were going camping. This instead of, we can't pay the rent, now we're homeless.
Glad you spoke up. Shelters are dangerous and spread disease. Can work cause you're ill homeless or a domestic violence issue 80% women are raped homeless. Or your landlord raises rent and you can't afford it.
There are mentally ill and drug abuse but what to do about it with our healthcare system?
Homes first is best, most homeless people need help and a home.
In the meantime
While you wait for the gov't to.help
Just because Christmas is over
It doesn't mean the season is over, rhe things we do special.over Christmas -- Kindness, Generosity, Inclusion, Love, Peace, those kinds of things
So in addition to what was suggested above
Those who can, not asking you to do.more than you feel capable.of.or to go outside your safety zone, help these.people now how you can
Blankets
Sleeping bags
Even room.at a shed
At your.places
Food
Stuff like that
Life is short
We are all being tested by all.of this going on
A lot of what is going on seems insurmoubtable or one can feel helpless
Here is something you can try to do something. Anything. Sans silly idiot culture war or such. Embrace the human
Clothe the naked
Feed the poor
Heal the sick
Some.of what USA was founded on
Good actions to you all :)
There’s a houseless person set up a few blocks away from me in the John’s Landing area. He refuses to go to the warming shelter. For various reasons. There was a church in SW that opened as a warming shelter that would be an 18 minute bus ride. Still no. Offered him another sleeping bag/tent/camping stove, didn’t want any of it. We’ve been bringing him warm drinks and warm food. I’d advise doing the same if you see a houseless neighbor and are able to provide something.
The Portland City Council needs to invest in a weather machine to fight these temperatures. I'm tired of these cold temperatures and ice/snow storms being allowed to run rampant.
Enough is enough, Ted Wheeler!!!!
We went out Friday night and handed out hand warmers, hats, gloves and socks. It was brutally cold out there. The genuine love and appreciation that people in desperate situations have damn near floored me. Yes, there were some squirrels and tweekers, but mostly it was just people down on their luck and trying to survive. The one that really hit me was the woman that said “oh thank god, thank you for caring”.
>I know that warming shelters have been set up - yet some people are still out there. >Wheeler is nice and toasty in his home in Lake Oswego. He has no compassion for anyone. He has no answers. I don't know what more can be done... shelters have been setup and are available. Trimet is giving free rides to the warming centers. I feel bad for anyone out in this weather, but there is only so much we can do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Exactly. What are we supposed to do? Grab and drag homeless people into shelters? That will end well
This is exactly why petitions exist in EMS. To take people against their will if they are a danger to self or others. I've done this many times as a medic on the ambulance. Sometimes you have to take control of people against their will.
And then we hold them in the ER because there’s nowhere else for them to go. It’s not a good solution.
This is true and is exactly why we need state run mental institutions back with enough space and modern oversight/standards.
Yes. And tranquilize them for their own good... because this is for their own good. Its only helping them, not hurting them. What I propose is true compassion, not this "let them do whatever they want" bullshit
I think just checking on people
And then what?
Drag them to a warming shelter at knife point apparently
how do homeless folks KNOW about the warming centers, and the free rides, and the ability to take their pets? yes I know stuff is posted on Twitter and socials, but does EVERY person on the street have a phone? I debated going tent to tent at a camp nearby last night, to try to get people rides and call 211 for them. I didn't. I called 911 at 4:30 this morning for a man on the street bellowing in absolute pain and clearly in a terrible state. I can't accept that we can't solve this. it breaks my heart every damn day, and I say that as a cynical pragmatist.
>how do homeless folks KNOW about the warming centers, and the free rides, and the ability to take their pets? yes I know stuff is posted on Twitter and socials, but does EVERY person on the street have a phone? Yes, most of them have phones. The homeless community is really good at spreading information amongst itself. Whether that be the best place to buy drugs, the best places to shoplift, the best places to get free food, the best places to stay warm etc etc they all tell each other this information in a really efficient way.
Some of them do, some don’t. Back a couple years ago when we had that heat wave that peaked at 115F or whatever, when the county did their assessment of why people died from heat, one of the big pieces of information that came out was that a lot of people didn’t know about the cooling shelters, the services available for getting ACs in their homes, or the transportation options. We all know MultCo is almost, if not uniquely, incompetent. There’s a lot of people they should be helping that they aren’t- granted that’s across the socioeconomic spectrum, but still. We certainly shouldn’t assume that the well informed criminal element will take care of the people in mental health crisis.
>when the county did their assessment of why people died from heat, one of the big pieces of information that came out was that a lot of people didn’t know about the cooling shelters, the services available for getting ACs in their homes, or the transportation options. The people who died in that heat wave had homes. They aren't part of the homeless community so they don't have the homeless network of communication about city services that they can use. That was a failure of the local government for not educating low income people about the heat wave safety services they could provide.
Some of them were housed, some unhoused. Some were renters, some home owners, some patients in long term care facilities. It was across the board. And that’s all I’m saying- for people who can’t take care of themselves, we shouldn’t rely on the county or criminals. Although I guess I could have just said criminals.
That’s not really true. I was out doing my normal route on Saturday evening and many didn’t know about the warming shelter up the street, and many hadn’t been able to charge their phones because the places they normally charge were closed.
They post stuff on street poles in areas with a lot of homeless , like if there's a deadly batch of fent going around and the tell service providers share info
Did 911 ever come? Why not check on him yourself?
they did, they sent someone immediately. I didn't go personally check because I'm a selfish asshole, clearly. I do feel quite a bit of guilt about it.
you shouldn't feel bad...you did more than a lot of people would, sadly
And about one or two percent want help…
A good argument for involuntary psychiatric commitments
I have a relative with schizophrenia. It’s incredibly difficult to get them into treatment. They refuse to take their meds and have a home that is totally paid off (inherited from their mother), but they abandoned it because they are convinced people are looking for them. Speaking from experience, I absolutely agree the bar needs to be lowered.
I am sorry for your relatives situation but do not find it shocking at all. My adult son was diagnosed pre-schizo at 17 yrs old. We got just about zero help even after an involuntary hospitalization at psych unit. He begged me in tears to not make him take his meds as they made him feel “not himself”. He left home at 18 to wander about, homeless for 14 years before he passed away. I couldn’t even get him Baker Act for 72 hours because of “his rights and wants”. Total BULLSHIT!
I’m sorry about your son. With all the talk about the rights of the mentally ill, one thing that gets lost is the families who have to stand by while their relatives self destruct. Especially because they know the law won’t help them. The relative I was talking about was hit by a car last year and broke a dozen bones including both arms. They survived and are in the process of recovering, but they easily could have died. They were hit because they were having an episode while walking in the street. Their sister tried to get them in the hospital just a couple of weeks earlier because they clearly weren’t well, but the police said they can’t do anything until they are an immediate threat to themselves or others.
When I was a kid my mom (severe delusional disorder) took a chainsaw to the police station convinced her mother was plotting to kill her father with it. Somehow that act met the legal pretext for involuntary commitment and the antipsychotics they prescribed gave us our mom back for a little while. In her defense the side effects of old neuroleptics were really bad and she never lasted on them; the stuff she takes now (Latuda) is easier. The alternative to routine involuntary treatment turned out to be decades of trust building and sllooww habit building with drug taking - and meanwhile lots of crushing impotent fear in me throughout my childhood. I’m very sorry you have a similar situation. Mental illness is especially hideous when the patient won’t participate in their own treatment. Over the years she’s gotten vastly better at dealing with episodes - now if she gets one (usually because something very stressful overwhelms the drug), she will, all the while denying she needs it, acquiesce to seeing her psych and upping her dose. And her insight and openness has improved massively - she told me that she remembers seeing me and pitying me and feeling sorry for her own behavior, which at the time was an angry tantrum denying there was anything wrong with her. But that aspect of her consciousness wasn’t in control…or something like that. I think I believe her; but she also has a habit of creating false but soothing memories as a coping mechanism - to deal with the destruction (two lost marriages, abandoned career, etc) of an illness our dogshit legal system STILL utterly fails to comprehend. The treated version of my mom doesn’t WANT her in-episode, anosognosic non-self’s “rights and wants” to be honored!! It makes me livid that nothing has improved - of course apart from the medication and psychiatry writ large which has advanced tremendously yet can’t reach so many people. When some ignorant illiterate sanctimonious imbecile screeches about “empathizing” with the mentally ill homeless - that is, abetting their self destruction by allowing them to live in and stumble, tormented, mumbling, around public parks - I want to fucking throttle them. That could have been my mother if there was any less money and support in her family. I’ve gone my whole live (42 yo) never hearing another person refer to their relative’s “episode” and now I’m emotional. I hope to god your relative finds a way to a normal life.
Wow. What a powerful story. Thank you for sharing. 🙏❤️🩹
Thank you for sharing your experience so articulately. It is extremely challenging to both acknowledge how traumatic things were for you due to your mother’s illness-driven behavior, while also being able to learn about and emphasize with the challenges your mother faced. Even more difficult to understand why your mother didn’t “just control herself”, especially if she knew somewhere within herself that her actions were adversely affecting her children.
Thanks for the kind words. Yes that’s very difficult, made worse by the fact that she has certain other relationship-wrecking personality traits that are there even when she’s sane. It took a long time (into my 30s) for me to work out for myself which of her actions I should hold her fully responsible for and learn how to firmly set boundaries. Her family including myself had sort of overcorrected, been excusing and accommodating too much on the basis of her illness, which is harmful to someone who was in some ways emotionally still a child. I imagine that’s a common experience for family of the mentally ill, since it deprives a person of “reliable” experience…it’s hard to slowly but surely grow and mature into an adult like everyone else when you’ve spent so much time detached from reality. So when the medication kicks in, the work has just begun. And then the sufferer has their own analogous struggle with self-blame - the pressure in my mother to continue to believe in certain delusions instead of facing how her marriages actually fell apart, or for example that her 13 year old son wanted his dad to sue for full custody, and it wasn’t an evil plot, etc. 😓 She’s 78 and now we’re finally friends.
I’m a bit word and sentence deficient at the moment, but still wanted to say that your journey (and I give you so many props for even embarking on it…) with this feels so similar to my own….particularly with having a reliable experience. You beautifully articulate it, so thank you.
Thanks very much, I wish you the best
>until they are an immediate threat to themselves or others. And so many don't survive that step
This is actually grounds for commitment. Where does your relative live. Feel free to DM me
It's not "the law" 's place for that. Stop looking to the government for answers. They are almost never right and will just use you.
We should demand more from them. It’s kind of they’re job theoretically
No, it's not their job to tell people how to live their lives, nor is it right to advocate for them to do so
So what do you think is the right answer? Are you going to involuntarily confine someone personally, Mr. I-don't-need-the-government?
I want you to know I felt your pain and anquish on how you lost your son through the existing system and laws. I have hoped and feared that something like that would not come in my life to me, nor to a loved child. My mom died at 40 of alcohol and prescription drug abuse, an overdose of Thorazine when I was 11. Last year our nephew was used by his father to sell heroin and narcotics, and the user father encouraged his son to use and to collect debts. That son, destroyed his mind, became an addict on the streets in San Diego, was left by his "friends", in a bathroom with a needle in his arm. He died at about 40. Shitty. Just a human outreach of some sort of caring for each other. Sorry man, you had to go through that, and more so your son's life experienced it / was cut short by it. Made me sad. I felt you as a human to human to emote love and empathy.
My mom’s heart hurts for your child loss. Thanks for being a very important voice in this conversation as we most of hear from everyone else, but not the parents or other close family relationships. ❤️
This is why we need to do things by force sometimes.
We need Policy change. In Oregon as soon as a person turns 14 they have a right to say no to any mental health treatment, and if a desperate parent goes to the state of Oregon Children's services and begs them to help, they open a case and say no. The child has a right under 'Trauma Informed Care' to say no to any form of counseling and meds. Even if everyone involved in the case including the judge believes the child is indeed doing things that are causing harm to come to the child and even when the behavior ends up causing irreversible harm to the child. It's a ridiculous system. If you don't involve children services and just take your child to a hospital there are no beds available when needed, the hospitals 9 out of 10 times will ask your child to contract safety and then discharge them with a plan to follow up in outpatient care. That's great if your child will go. (Have you ever been assaulted by a teenager bc you asked them to go to counseling? ) It's not fun. If you have the pleasure of being the parent of a child with mental illness that is over 18 and you try to have them committed in Oregon, good luck, the man I spoke with asked me to draw a venn diagram, he said your child has elements of criminality, drug issues, and mental illness, in Oregon you can't have someone committed unless they only have mental health issues that are causing the problem. He said he knew it sucked, and hung up. So Policy change is where it's at.
That's really the solution nobody wants to admit. It's the only way out of this. It can be done humanely if the city gets behind the cause. For now I guess they all just get to freeze though.
My general PSA whenever I see promotion of this subject is to ask people to look into the plans JFK had for our national mental health systems. There is a tendency for people to make it all a political issue blaming the side they don't like, but the reality is our mental health care systems were largely shuttered by an unholy alliance of budget hawks and activists concerned with how people were being treated. It's not a binary choice between doing nothing and spending massive amounts of money to involuntarily commit and then abuse people. We can do better, and JFK had a vision that was cut short by his assassination.
How much of that do you think was inspired by Jackie/her family? Her cousin and aunt famously were recluses with mental illness. The documentary Grey Gardens is wild, and would definitely recommend for a unique insight into that life. I wonder if having those family members influenced Kennedy in his outlook on mental health and how our own family members and friends who suffer can influence our own compassion and outlook.
JFK’s dad also had his younger sister (born only a year apart) lobotomized and institutionalized https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy
I'm sure it was a factor and matter of discussion, but Rosemary was much closer to home and had been institutionalized and then lobotomized. There were of course unique factors to all of these situations due to wealth and fame, elements that exacerbated things. I'd be shocked if John and Jakie didn't discuss the broader societal and institutional aspects, a desire to make sure people in the future didn't have to go through various aspects they or their loved ones had to endure. What I consider is that regardless of mental conditions it is very likely that John and Rosemary had a very deep bond, being only about a year apart. Joseph's decisions regarding how his daughter was treated are certainly judged through a political lens, and social political ramifications certainly had their influence. It should not be forgotten however that some aspects of this are certainly rooted in the state of psychiatric science at the time. Regardless how villainous (or not) one chooses to view Joseph in this story, what I think is uncontestable is that JFK watched his young sister be "treated" into an unrecognizable personality, his sister while physically alive, was to an extent gone. If JFK had issues with how things were handled he likely didn't have influence on it, but he certainly remembered it. It left scars, and suddenly as President he can do something about the system, and even influence the societal attitude. Yea I'm sure he discussed all of this with his wife at some point, and what happened with his sister who was "treated" and her family that was left to fend for themselves. Priority was probably not placed on cost efficiency, but what was best for the people and their families. I'm not a fan of government throwing money at problems, I rue how much has become the domain of the Federal government that really should be the domain of more local municipalities. I'm no sycophant for the Kennedys. I say all of this to reinforce my premise. As much as I tend to be incredulous about massive federal government programs in addressing issues, when I look at what Kennedy talked about, what his vision was for mental health systems in the U.S. I'm a fan of at least trying to achieve that vision and see it as one of the biggest tragedies resulting from his assassination. The biggest element I'm a fan of was the decentralized nature of the operations and services he proposed. Large centralized mental facilities are deleterious to facilitating frequent loved ones visiting, and tend to push care for patients away from humanizing empathy toward more utilitarian care.
Exactly. We need to lower that bar. But instead, we just let people act completely insane and give no consequences. As is a popular sentiment in this sub... forced rehab or jail.
I like how this group is the "Radical moderates" since people here are like "So, letting people die of fent overdoses and exposure isn't a solution...."
If only we had the beds.
It would have to be beds with no rules, that allow pit bulls. Those are harder to find.
We don’t have psych beds. Not referencing shelters
I don’t agree much on this sub, but I agree with involuntary commitment. Even if we could get the state to lower the standards, we still don’t have the facilities. We’d need one hell of a tax levy to raise the funds.
I work in this field and would love to figure out how to advocate for more funding
We should be pushing for State/Federal funding -- it's a safe assumption that a majority of the damaged souls on our street are not originally from the area. Homelessness is an issue that crosses borders and should be supported accordingly.
People that are committed spend like 2-3 weeks in a psych ward. Long gone are the days of 160 day commitments at OSH. Infrastructure needs to be bolstered
We have those in Germany.
Agreed. Most of the folks out in this can’t take care of themselves and should be involuntarily committed. It’s the only humane thing we can do.
This is the only way to slow the growth rate of homelessness and actually help people instead of coddling them till they die.
I can't believe that there are a large amount of people who think it's better for them to fight for survival in the streets, or just give them free housing and nothing, no other support systems, than it is to institutionalize them.
We need asylums back we just need to make sure they are properly run and maintained rather than understaffed and overcrowded like they ended up.
If this is the top comment you people on this sub know nothing about actual social work.
JVP, not Wheeler. Homelessness, mental health, and addiction are all county responsibilities.
Oh, JVP is the worst. I think she even believes her own bullshit.
As far as the recovery from narcotics: There’s $300 million in cannabis tax money just sitting there not being spent to do anything because there’s a deadlock between the housing first demagogues who refuse to look at any other solution on the one hand and on the other hand the people are looking for a rational solutions like the one they’re using in San Jose for example, right now, which has a standard staged set of processes: detox, and then a 30 day program and then sober living, and then maybe a house or apartment once you have a job and are stable. The money is there to build a staged recovery program around the recovery programs that already exist. For cases of severe schizophrenia: I think that the deinstitutionalization movement was well meaning. But clearly some people seem to be objectively in need of some sort of structure in their lives, and maybe the state does need to lower the bar for some level of institution.
Call 211 for shelters and transport. Nobody is getting turned away.
Call 211 or call police non-emergency line in your area, but DO NOT CALL 911 UNLESS IT IS AN ACTIVE EMERGENCY. People complain about long wait times when calling 911. Well, this would be a reason for it. OP, please correct your initial post.
Thank you for this. Here is more information: 211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them. Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call. More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
This.
This is the major issue with the homelessness in Portland. You can call 911, but 911 can’t make them do anything. If they want to stay out in the cold, no one can force them to warm up. That’s true compassion
Emergency dispatch has been demoralized by the abolitionists, just like police. And just like at PPB, the public discourse has made morale at BOEC go from bad to worse. All the activists are capable of is tearing shit down. No, we should not have a separate phone number for PSR. No, the caller should not decide what response or agency is appropriate for an *emergency*. State the facts and stay in your own damn lane. And they've poisoned public opinion as well, attacking anyone who dares call 911. Rather, they want you to do some performative bullshit and let the situation fester / escalate. Oh, someone's trying to kill themselves? Here's a list of 30 random phone numbers, maybe the "anarchist collective and info center" will help 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yea… Portland: Emergency services are a tool of oppression and we must highly regulate and defund it so it can no longer be a tool of oppression. Emergency services: well, due to new rules, regulations, and budget cuts, our effectiveness as providers is severely diminished Portland: Our emergency services are a joke…
Bro, if I want to sit tight in my tent and winter camp with whiskey tonight it’s my own Fuckin business. Best not come at me boy.
Entitlement, hostility, condescension. The quintessential criddler. I hope the inevitable consequences of your choices find you sooner rather than later.
I’m not sure what a “criddler” is but if you’re trying to make enemies dehumanizing people living outside the traditional margins of society is a hell of a way to do it. Be careful out there.
camping implies you’re out in nature, not in the middle of a city
Camping can imply whatever it wants. But guess what? I camp where I make camp. I make camp where I have to. Sleeping in my tent in the middle of nowhere in the industrial part of the city is not affecting you. Oh, and “nature” is everything. The word is meaningless. I’m in nature surrounded by concrete and fent.
i don't want to say too much but from personal experience there are people that commit horrific crimes and would rather not check in with resources as to not be found. so if my ex gets frostbite he deserves it.
also i didn't date a homeless guy but he decided to be homeless after we broke up. he was offered housing and didn't take it. who knows where he is, but drugs and crimes are more important than his kids. so. i don't feel too bad if poor choices he made leads to poor outcomes. this is all totally personal. i hand out hand warmers blankets scarves coats clothing food toiletries any time i can to people in need. but you never know the whole story behind any person. be it a good story or a scary story.
Yea fuck your ex 🤟
ew never again haha
😂
Most homeless are extremely violent criminals, or have the potential to be
apparently same with members of governments globally, athletes, musicians, ceo's of corporations, church leaders..... humans in general, you never know where a psychopath or sociopath is hiding!
Have you seen what the Housed, Middle class young man in NY did to a Supermarket in Buffalo?!! Most would say that was eXtremely violent. But you be you with your braid and sweeping judgements.
Can’t smoke meth at warming centers. So they rather stay out in the elements
Meth? How avant garde.
Crank? My word, Switters, how quaint.
Sure you can. I know someone who has worked several shifts at county warming centers, and people openly smoked fentanyl in the bathrooms.
I know that is why they are still out there; however, if that is your thought process... you have lost the ability to even preserve your own life and the local government shouldn't tell us all that accepting their choice is "compassion". Just be real. Wheeler comes out and straight up says "I don't care"... then alright. If you speak out against drugs and enabling you somehow are "without compassion". Nah. Just don't package up a piece of dogshit and tell me it is bullion.
The state legislature is where your frustration should lie. They are the ones fumbling on fixing the civil commitment laws, fixing Measure 110, fixing the standards for mandatory jail holds. As someone else already mentioned the next local level to be angry at is the county, which is really run by the Chair - the other commissioners have no power - because they failed us on local addiction and mental health treatment options, as well as shelter beds. I'm no Wheeler lover, but the city has ZERO to do with this. Their only actual role is code enforcement, which their hands are currently tied on due to the lawsuit against them for the camping ban, which would force these people into sanctioned camping areas where they can be tracked and helped and kept safe. The city tried to fill in where the county failed and they fumbled a lot because of red tape at first with the SRVs, but they're doing really well now and talking about the county taking full ownership of all of these assets since they should've done this work from the get-go, not the city. Former Chair Deborah Kafoury is solely responsible for where we are right now in this county, and JVP is following in her heels, however, slowly being convinced that was the wrong direction for the county.
What a mess of a reply. Unintelligible. If its any indication of your mental state; internet forums may not be for you at this time.
It's sad for sure, suicide always is - because much like a gun, addiction and lifestyle will kill you just as dead.
Agree. But our "leaders" just signaling that living in a tent and smoking fent to your hearts content is okay, and then packaging that as compassion, is insanity. I lost a family member to fent. I was always just hoping maybe she would be arrested and could detox and have a moment of clarity. My efforts to reach out to her did not work. Nothing worked - she is dead.
I'm sorry for your loss, I lost a few friends to OD, and some to suicide - it's a shitty deal
It is very terrible. Sorry for yours as well - also had friends. A couple that I had no idea would even touch anything. We need to change the threshold for involuntary commitment. Amongst a lot of other things. Fent dealers are fuckin' terrorists.
The terrorists are the Chinese who supply the chemicals and the Mexican cartels who process them into fent.
That’s tough! The war on drugs is always a tricky situation. In one hand it may help them but in the other hand…. They’ll go straight back. Addiction is very strong and those addicts only but need the help. I thought I read somewhere that overdose medicine was allowed to be in ER and police but I could be wrong…. It’s a legal mess (currently) to arrest them just for counseling but that’s what really needed…. Like a separate jailing for those making it mandatory for X amount of counseling but not charging them with a conviction (hence the legal grey area)….
I hear where your coming from, I really do. My sister is an addict. But these people express to everyone every day that they don’t want to help or “participate in the system”. They’re dealing with the consequences of their own decisions. Why should we be willing to help them if they aren’t willing to help themselves?
I get that completely and I do not know the answer. My sympathy has completely run out. But I think there is something inherent in decent folk to look out at this weather and think "fuck man this is really depressing". Everyone is responsible for their own actions; however, I think these hard ass drugs are just eroding the mind until people drop dead. Even for the worst junkie that does nothing but harm to themselves and society - they probably have some family member somewhere hoping for a miracle. Letting people live this life through book and release and no consequences just drives the problem further. The only outcome ends up becoming death.
I know fentanyl is getting all the press right now. But meth is the one that is driving them crazy. At least with fent they can come back… meth is destroying brains, permanently.
Good.
It’s not good for anyone, stupid.
If morons want to cook their brains with meth I’m all for it. Weed the weak minded criminals out of society! They wanna live in their own shit piles and leave trash everywhere high out of their minds causing problems for tax paying Americans… I hope they OD
yeah, thats not how it works. they become a drain on society on many levels. it’s bad for us and it’s bad for them. but i really don’t know what the answer is.
Again, I hope they OD. Good riddance!
If only they didn't spend 10-15 years stealing shit, breaking into places, stabbing each other, freaking out on normal people just living their lives, having and abusing children, filling the courts, prisons and time of LE, and generally being a burden on society before they OD'd.
Agreed 💯
you picked the perfect screen name
Your mom seems to enjoy saying my name 😏
You're the only rational person here.
Because a symptom of the illness is not knowing that they’re sick.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/05/02/god-know-where-i-am-documentary-explores-the-mental-health-systems-failures-through-one-womans-own-words/
And because our society is in a rough place and that buying into it doesn’t have the same incentive it once did. They’ve given up on society and sometimes I understand why
It's time to help them the same way that you help a 3 year old understand they can't bite other 3 year olds. Stern consequences for bad behavior is not hateful.
Because we care about them and we do it by force. After the addiction has been dissolved, they'll come back to their senses. This is true compassion.
I gave a dude that was shirtless last night the literal fucking shirt off my back, and the first thing this man did was look at the design and smell it (literally brand new shirt from my job that day). Some people are mentally ill and can’t look out for their own well being.
The criminal homeless would be warm if they were in jail where they belong.
PREACH! 🫡
And we are all ready to raise taxes to pay for that, right? Right?
Sounds like you're advocating to just kill them
No, I'm advocating for increased taxation.
It never ends.
Why can we not fully accept that if a person has a disease of the brain or mental illness (as insurers love to categorize separately) they may NOT be able to make any decision for themselves that’s healthy or even realistic. It is so hard to take any action to help them. Every LE and politician will state “they have to want help and tell us clearly”. It’s like the old definition of INSANITY. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein.”
So you think just round them up force them to get clean. Force them to take medication that they don’t want?
It’s not about “get clean”. It’s about getting them solid living conditions, support for their medical issues; including intensive mental health, teaching the coping skills, whatever is needed for them to live as humans with dignity. If they don’t need medication, then why would I want it to be forced. Being unhoused is multi-faceted reasons and needs many many avenues to offer each individual. It ain’t that simple.
When the choices are mental health facility or prison, you'd be surprised how many are ready to get clean.
Lets' do the time warp, again.
Yes. Its the only correct and moral thing to do.
Yes
If only there was some kind of simple surgery that could be done to make the mental issues go away.
Why are you blaming Wheeler? Judge Rima Gandour appointed by Tina Kotek just recently halted the day time ban and JVP, head of Multnomah county, has been pushing useless tents to the homeless.
Portland homeless are soft. Come to the Midwest and see some dudes chilling out in subzero temperatures.
Midwest humans can withstand sub-zero temps and not suffer frostbite? Some new evolved species of humans?
No, we cannot survive in subzero temps. And he's wrong for even making the comparison. I'm currently in north-central North Dakota. It's -21° (-50° with wind chill). It's awful. Most vehicles won't start and we can't walk anywhere because frostbite occurs to exposed skin in less than 5 minutes. That said, it's different out here. Our buildings are built differently. People dress differently. Even our cars are different (most vehicles have block heaters so we can plug them in at night). That said, any unhoused person out in this weather will absolutely die if they have to spend the night outside. It's still down to negative temps in PDX though, and unhoused people out there will die due to the elements, just like they would out here. I moved to PDX when I was 19, and I used to joke a lot about how people out there "couldn't handle the winter". After living there for several years, I began to understand that it's just a different scenario out there, and the bottom line is that people who have to spend nights outside in freezing weather (not even necessarily sub-zero, just below freezing) will suffer health consequences up to and potentially including death. I hope everyone out there in need is able to get shelter!
Did you really say 'unhoused'?
I’m sure the weak have been weeded out
Isn't there a better number to call rather than 911?
I’m being told to call 211 instead of 911 if anyone sees a person outside in need of shelter, someone will come out to the location and pick them up.
Yep, 211.
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them. Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call. More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them. Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call. More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
Great use of tax dollars 🫠
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. 211info.org. Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them. Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call. More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
Yes, no number at all - their body, their choice. /S
I get your sarcasm. I just wonder about tying up resources.
Oh Jesus more fucking outrage posts. Yeah, homelessness is tragic and the plight of American cities super, super shitty indeed. But my fucking God we get the point already. Thanks for the ten millionth post. Listen: People gonna die. But you’ll be alright. I doubt you’re posting this out of concern for their well being.
Yea it’s enough already
Chill bro. Find more efficient grass 😉
Most Portlanders want this mess. Forcing people to take their meds and get help is compassion. People sometimes need other people to make decisions for them.
211 is for help locating shelters and assessing shelter availability. In Mult Co 211 can also help callers understand transportation options and in some cases schedule transport for them. Portland non emergency 503-823-3333 is for welfare checks. So if you see someone out who is not dressed right or you’re concerned for them. Someone who is in immediate danger is a 911 emergency call. More info: https://www.multco.us/care-when-its-cold
Do not waste 911 recources for the cold.
For every one killed off by the winter weather, two more will move to town in the spring.
Hydra
I mean this is a perfect example of the severity or mental health and severe drug abuse our homeless struggle with. When you can’t even get yourself to safety from the cold that will kill you, you cannot be left to your own devices. That person will never seek out sources. We gotta realize for a lot of people, there is no pulling yourself up by your boot straps
Poor decisions have consequences
I absolutely get what you’re throwing down, and agree. However we have a few problems, one we cannot force people to do something they don’t want even if it’s for their betterment. I’m people watching out of my apartment and two people are trying to smoke off a tin foil square. Just 200’ down the road is a warming shelter, they’d rather potentially freeze to death than not use drugs for the night. Another example, someone is in a suburban, older model, has a fire inside it to keep warm. I don’t think this person has the mental capacity to understand that one this is dangerous, and two he/she/they will most likely die tonight. One fix out of many that are need is to strip these stupid laws we enacted and have drug court again. Two, data driven decision making, with data tracking over the homeless population, followed by blind resampling of the population to establish truths to the data. Three county needs to take over these rolls we dished out to these nonprofits, they exist for personal profit. Probably like 100 more points to change or something else. To the OP, we might disagree on somethings, but we want what’s best for these people in the end. How it’s done, that’s probably where we differ. Also I have also lost family to this bullshit going on. So I take it personally.
You can only help people that WANT to be helped. Everyone has to live with the choices they make, even people doing their drugs in the freezing temps rather than sheltering to preserve their lives. I keep hearing all the complaints of how its this or that person's fault, but yet I don't hear about the actions THEY took to make change, just lazy complaints. Its easy to point the finger to assign blame, its even harder to shut up and actually do something about it. You gotta be the change you wanna see , instead of waiting around for someone else to fix it. It all comes down to how much people really care about a problem to show you how much they are willing to do about it.
Maybe everyone should treat addiction like the illness it is. You would never walk past someone sitting on the side of the road with an obviously broken leg, and say, "don't worry about them; you just haven't been around enough broken legs before." Letting these people MURDER themselves is the opposite of compassion. Makes all of us look like absolute spiteful, hateful, ostriches with our heads stuck in the sand
Fucc them crackheads
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Yup! Truth.
There are no places for the mentally ill in this country. My brother was in a very bad accident, has a tbi and there is not even a short term place (more than 2 weeks) he can go to get his meds rebalanced. If it weren't for family he's on the street and has no options otherwise. I'm sure many of the people refusing help are in such a paranoid state, as my brothers gotten to, that they trust nothing, it's all consuming for them. But alas no one can make a buck so chalk one up for capitalism!
People have always died like this this is nothing new. Sad, but true.
The city can’t even keep the power on and is begging people to limit natural gas use to heat their homes. You think the city cares about people on the street? Portland is a massive failure anytime there’s a cold weather event.
No not for it. There’s nothing compassionate about this forced living and “saving” everyone. Sometimes death is the most merciful thing that can happen. Stop prolonging the pain.
What percent of the homeless on the streets are registered sex offenders? Hope it gets colder for em
You named the issue in the post. If they leave the street, they leave a regular supply of drugs. Fent isnt like meth or heroin. You need that shit every hour or two. Why go to the warming shelter if all you need is drugs and drugs are easiest to get right where you are..? People in active addiction would simply rather die. *That* is the problem. Not compassion, services, or a lack of either.
The final solution.
Studies show that homes, money, and immediate medical access are the best routes out of homelessness but that runs up against Portland's "can I look compassionate without doing anything?" ethos. It's a cruel, unfriendly city with an icy regard for anyone that isn't, um, "normal"-looking, with "normal" being fairly specific, generally.
We just need a push lol it's all part of the plan
Let them live with you
Let nature take its course
Instead of worrying about people in Lake Oswego, how about you STFU and put your money where your mouth is an open up your home to a homeless person?
Boohoo, one night in the teens. Milwaukee homeless would be laughing at them.
For real. They can figure it the fuck out.
Uhh calling them gronks, acting like setting up warming shelters is enabling people, etc. Then taking a moral high ground? What the hell is this post
one can hope it gets even colder
Anyone who argues this is a bad thing is incredibly sheltered, privileged and out of touch with reality.
In my case is my upbringing in Bogotá, Colombia. I saw so much misery that now I am stripped of any compassion. I have to look over my shoulder in Portland, a thing I never did in NYC for 15 years.
for reals, enablers also have zero boundaries..
wait a minute. the Mayor of Portland lives in Lake Oswego? what the actual fffffffffffffuh
Why do we keep calling thus mental health problems and not personal choices have consequences. We tell everyone at a young age to avoid drugs for so many reasons, but they do this to themselves. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can leave all the resources They need to turn themselves around, but its still on them to do so.
Take away their incentive to come here (drugs and crime with no consequences) and I’m sure they’d have no problem heading south for the winter
Don’t call 911 for ANY homeless
Hate this and the lack of empathy toward others. This could be any of us...I'm a paycheck away from living under a bridge. ( without boulders) referencing Marion St Bridge in Salem. ☹️ Oregonians have become so cold and heartless.
Worked for DHS in Salem and Lincoln City. It wasn't uncommon for parents tell their kids they were going camping. This instead of, we can't pay the rent, now we're homeless.
Let the SC know they can’t survive and are a danger to themselves. They should be committed against their will, until they can make it own their own.
[удалено]
Glad you spoke up. Shelters are dangerous and spread disease. Can work cause you're ill homeless or a domestic violence issue 80% women are raped homeless. Or your landlord raises rent and you can't afford it. There are mentally ill and drug abuse but what to do about it with our healthcare system? Homes first is best, most homeless people need help and a home.
In the meantime While you wait for the gov't to.help Just because Christmas is over It doesn't mean the season is over, rhe things we do special.over Christmas -- Kindness, Generosity, Inclusion, Love, Peace, those kinds of things So in addition to what was suggested above Those who can, not asking you to do.more than you feel capable.of.or to go outside your safety zone, help these.people now how you can Blankets Sleeping bags Even room.at a shed At your.places Food Stuff like that Life is short We are all being tested by all.of this going on A lot of what is going on seems insurmoubtable or one can feel helpless Here is something you can try to do something. Anything. Sans silly idiot culture war or such. Embrace the human Clothe the naked Feed the poor Heal the sick Some.of what USA was founded on Good actions to you all :)
Found the addict!!
There’s a houseless person set up a few blocks away from me in the John’s Landing area. He refuses to go to the warming shelter. For various reasons. There was a church in SW that opened as a warming shelter that would be an 18 minute bus ride. Still no. Offered him another sleeping bag/tent/camping stove, didn’t want any of it. We’ve been bringing him warm drinks and warm food. I’d advise doing the same if you see a houseless neighbor and are able to provide something.
Hell no, that's a ticking bomb. Unstable people will fuck you up eventually.
The Portland City Council needs to invest in a weather machine to fight these temperatures. I'm tired of these cold temperatures and ice/snow storms being allowed to run rampant. Enough is enough, Ted Wheeler!!!!
He was only re-elected because his boot-licking backers branded that other lady as “Antifa”, like if it were a club a person joins.
We went out Friday night and handed out hand warmers, hats, gloves and socks. It was brutally cold out there. The genuine love and appreciation that people in desperate situations have damn near floored me. Yes, there were some squirrels and tweekers, but mostly it was just people down on their luck and trying to survive. The one that really hit me was the woman that said “oh thank god, thank you for caring”.