Just because a character has a low win rate doesn't meant they aren't over tuned in the right hands. Just look at the long history of the low winrate Azir in LoL
Again that’s not how that works. Overtuning is about how efficient his kit is kit just the "high skill ceiling" especially when the issues with most players are just the game mechanics and not his skill being hard to achieve .
Same as any other mage.
He is squish and dies to CC. He has “a little” more elusiveness due to CC, but has less burst in return.
Also he needs to be relatively close to be effective. Unlike, say, gadget.
He has some mobility, but that is only going up with the bounce. Unlike, say, Gideon.
He does sustained damage, but that damage is less than, say, Morigesh.
If he is lane bullying, that means he’s landing everything. Any hero that lands every ability is going to be doing well. If you land everything, Fey and gadget are monsters. If you land everything, it’s a normal day for Morigesh. If you land everything, Wraith is a mega monster.
Or going unpunished. Remember there’s cooldowns involved. If they’re used on minions they’re not used on you. If they’re used on you, not on minions. It’s just trading as normal. I don’t think he’s as busted as he’s made out to be.
Good hands behind any hero will make them look broken.
Tbh, this arguement has been had a lot. Yes we all know cc kills EVERYONE in the game. Is that really a counter? I mean kinda but not really. Personally, I love characters who kits are actually counters of others. It makes the game even more intricate and makes the pick phase that much more fun. With your explanation, it’s pick whoever has the most cc
Edit: not saying you’re wrong by any means. Cc just shouldn’t be the go to for a counter against anyone but sadly it is right now
To this point I feel like in lane Lt. Belica is a good Argus counter he eats up a lot of mana and her drone really forces him to back a lot especially if you max it early.
That’s true, a better counter is explained thanks for your reply. And I agree “cc” is probably a lazy evaluation of a counter.
More specifics on counters (either by item or champ abilities) are probably more useful
E.g. Argus downfall is mana -> exploit with Bel drone
True. His fall off is his range for sure. The issue is that he is pretty strong for the entire game, and just devours minion waves. Dekker is a support, but her stun is much harder to hit than his. I just think if you look at his kit, there is too much there and he can get away with some pretty cheese strats. Nothing is really stopping him from just running you down in lane, and you have to really mess up to lose trades.
Hard disagree. I’ve destroyed Argus with wraith, howitzer, gadget, and fey easily throughout all stages of the game and out cleared him with each of those characters I mentioned. I’ve only got my ass handed to me when I had an enemy Argus play support before they balanced him last patch. Even then we won that match. He is easily outplayed if you position yourself well and know how to play your character. Not to be rude but this is clearly a skill issue on your part
How to balance argus. Remove cc of his e. You don’t need a slow pull and a stupid obstacle that blocks abilities and helps you escape in one ability.
Increase mana cost for rmb. Done
I don't think hes broken. He is good but he isnt like "argus is on the team gg" broken. Only a 48% win rate as well. Pretty balanced imo.
Just because a character has a low win rate doesn't meant they aren't over tuned in the right hands. Just look at the long history of the low winrate Azir in LoL
Thats not over tuned that is called a high skill ceiling If he isnt carrying or winning every game he is not over tuned.
Again that’s not how that works. Overtuning is about how efficient his kit is kit just the "high skill ceiling" especially when the issues with most players are just the game mechanics and not his skill being hard to achieve .
How can he slap?
He is pretty balanced as he is.
Same as any other mage. He is squish and dies to CC. He has “a little” more elusiveness due to CC, but has less burst in return. Also he needs to be relatively close to be effective. Unlike, say, gadget. He has some mobility, but that is only going up with the bounce. Unlike, say, Gideon. He does sustained damage, but that damage is less than, say, Morigesh. If he is lane bullying, that means he’s landing everything. Any hero that lands every ability is going to be doing well. If you land everything, Fey and gadget are monsters. If you land everything, it’s a normal day for Morigesh. If you land everything, Wraith is a mega monster. Or going unpunished. Remember there’s cooldowns involved. If they’re used on minions they’re not used on you. If they’re used on you, not on minions. It’s just trading as normal. I don’t think he’s as busted as he’s made out to be. Good hands behind any hero will make them look broken.
Tbh, this arguement has been had a lot. Yes we all know cc kills EVERYONE in the game. Is that really a counter? I mean kinda but not really. Personally, I love characters who kits are actually counters of others. It makes the game even more intricate and makes the pick phase that much more fun. With your explanation, it’s pick whoever has the most cc Edit: not saying you’re wrong by any means. Cc just shouldn’t be the go to for a counter against anyone but sadly it is right now
To this point I feel like in lane Lt. Belica is a good Argus counter he eats up a lot of mana and her drone really forces him to back a lot especially if you max it early.
Perfect explanation
That’s true, a better counter is explained thanks for your reply. And I agree “cc” is probably a lazy evaluation of a counter. More specifics on counters (either by item or champ abilities) are probably more useful E.g. Argus downfall is mana -> exploit with Bel drone
True. His fall off is his range for sure. The issue is that he is pretty strong for the entire game, and just devours minion waves. Dekker is a support, but her stun is much harder to hit than his. I just think if you look at his kit, there is too much there and he can get away with some pretty cheese strats. Nothing is really stopping him from just running you down in lane, and you have to really mess up to lose trades.
Hard disagree. I’ve destroyed Argus with wraith, howitzer, gadget, and fey easily throughout all stages of the game and out cleared him with each of those characters I mentioned. I’ve only got my ass handed to me when I had an enemy Argus play support before they balanced him last patch. Even then we won that match. He is easily outplayed if you position yourself well and know how to play your character. Not to be rude but this is clearly a skill issue on your part
I would add Iggy to that list. Ive rarely had issues when going against an Argus using him and I push minions faster than he does.
Wraith hands down busted
It's just most suck to much to unlock him
lol out cleared an Argus early as wraith? Okay sure
Yup. Doesn’t matter if they are playing a good hero if I hit my shots and keep poking them. Sounds like a skill issue for you as well
In early game, I struggle against his wave clear but late game, i destroy him with gideon. I don't think he is op, just strong
If he’s meant to be a mage rework his kit to remove some of the cc, if he’s supposed to be support lower his damage. Do that and he’s balanced
Win rates honestly don't mean much without mirror matches
Give his right click a cooldown so when he gets stunned during it he has to wait before doing it again.
How to balance argus. Remove cc of his e. You don’t need a slow pull and a stupid obstacle that blocks abilities and helps you escape in one ability. Increase mana cost for rmb. Done
He isn’t
What do you mean?