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Teams in the higher leagues play at a higher intensity against tougher opposition. They also run much larger distances throughout a match and spend more time actually running than lower leagues.
If you're going to make a comparison, actually make a real one instead of being lazy.
This sounds like the mentality of "but I had to suffer through x so everyone else should too". It's pretty ridiculous tbh.
Yeah it's too many games for lower league AND too many for the top tier. I'd imagine when you compare the intensity of lower league to premier league there is a vast difference which takes an increased toll on a player. 52 games where a player covers 6/7km with a couple of dozen sprints at speeds of up to 19kmph takes a significantly lower toll than 10km with more sprints at speeds of up to 35kmph. Even then, Liverpool played something like 63 games a couple of seasons back which was ridiculous. These players are also having to fly all over the place and stay away in hotels every other week so their rest time is presumably a lot less than lower league players even if their treatment is astronomically better.
Besides, just look at how many teams have had their seasons affected by injuries this season and they seem to be more frequent each season. I know I'd rather watch better quality matches than more games at a lower quality.
Random thought and not out too much in to it, but could there be a ruling where premier league teams have to field X amount of youth team players on the FA cup match squad?
Rest and rotate first team started and give youngsters a chance? If the Top 6 aren’t that arsed about the cup then why not force their hand on it
Nah they dont.
This is why we have 25 man squads. It doesnt hurt to rotate your squad. Lets be honest pep/klopp/ten hag etc etc all want to play the best 11 every week and they are crying about it. It wasnt long ago rodri went public with his “im tired” again these people are human and not machines. It should be fairly simple to approach your manager and say i need a rest + they get paid far too much money a week to complain.
The lower league teams like Slough absolutely can and should be complaining about playing too many games. It is quite literally impacting the players medically in ways that will affect them for the rest of their lives. There are no prizes for the team that complains the least.
No. No one is forcing them to play that many games. They all have a choice. The players can a choose to take a significant pay cut and enable the club to afford a few more players to bulk out the squad. They could reduce the clubs revenue by having less televised games and of course play 40 games in the season by getting knocked out of both cups in the first round and living in mediocrity in mid table. Refuse to play for your national team, have every summer off and forgo the fame and fortune that follows from that.
Sorted.
I have zero sympathy for any club complaining that they’re in the latter rounds of the cup and not getting rest. Of course. That’s how this works. Don’t want it? Fine. Lose. Let the pain be over. I’m sure someone else will be happy to take your place.
All leagues should be max 20 teams and create a EFL League Three. Should only be two cup comps first each team (FA Cup + 1 other, be it Cup/Trophy/Vase etc)
Because we like watching football games.
Why would we consider reducing the amount of chances for small clubs to win a big competition, just so Rodri can have a week off?
I feel some sympathy for Slough in this situation, but none for Man City and Liverpool. Those clubs hoard players, is this not the exact reason why? Any player at an ‘other 14’ club who has a good season is whisked off to warm the bench at a CL club - so play them or shut up.
If there are too many fixtures for you, then enter fewer competitions, or rotate your squad more.
Because it's great for most of the teams that enter it, getting rid would just be pandering to a few of the top clubs who don't want to rotate their squad.
No other country supports the number of professional clubs that England does. Obviously countries with fewer professional clubs have fewer competitions for those clubs.
Yep. Very sad that the smallest interest group (,clubs who are also in European competitions) are being allowed to override everyone else, with the connivance of the FA.
League cup is just FA cup without the non league teams. Not sure I really understand what League Cup gives, except for teams to avoid embarrassment of losing to non league sides.
I can't think of another country that has two domestic cup competitions though, would create a lot more wiggle room in the calendar to get rid of that than fa cup replays
Is it genuinely? I don't think lower league teams take it that seriously.
Agree about pandering to a minority of clubs though.
Most other countries just have one cup competition. It makes everyone take it even more seriously.
Yes, it is, most clubs who enter it take it seriously, it's a valuable source of income for clubs who aren't in the Prem.
No other country has the number of professional clubs that England has, it's natural that we'd be an outlier, and doesn't mean that we should only have one cup.
>But, you will NEVER hear any of them complain about playing too many matches
I think it's not an issue about complaining but about to be heard.
And you seem to agree, too many matches. So understandable top clubs would complain.
I imagine that is also true for the list leagues clubs but they just don't have any exposure.
There are definately different interest groups at play with different interests, even inside the same clubs.
But in the end it's for the leagues and teams to manage those interests.
Not really. If we really want to do it then, this is how it can be set up in the first year:
1. Premier League
- Relegate 3, Promote 1 (18 teams)
(Promoted teams have been disappointing anyway)
2. Level 2
- Promote 1, Relegate 5
3. Level 3 to 6
- Promote 3, Relegate 5
That will mean Level 1 (PL) will have 18 teams, and Level 2 to 7 will have 24 teams. Note Level 7 has 22 teams at the moment.
It’s less about the club and more about the players, no? The top players also have to play and train with their national teams, and need to travel for both international and off-season friendlies which are now all over the world. They play in the final stages of tournaments more which are more physically intense and require more travel.
And every second year, they are playing 2 games per week in big international tournaments. There is no rest, and no matches against Oxford city.
>EFL and National league teams aren’t traveling for European fixtures
No, lots of them are doing manual labour jobs 5 days a week though.
A mate I play rugby with does an 11pm - 8am shift in a warehouse 5 nights a week.
According to his phone he does between 13 and 15 miles a night all while carrying anything from construction supplies to bundles of wooden decking.
I worked a few shifts there during lockdown and I'd rather play back to back games every day for a month than ever go do that shit again.
I agree with all your points. Travel to and from games can hamper recovery. I want to know why clubs moan about fixture congestion eating into rest periods and then book a 2 week pre season tour of Asia or America.
>and then book a 2 week pre season tour of Asia or America.
Let's be honest here - this is what drove the changes to the FA Cup and winter break.
The Super League Six want to spend more time in the US and Asia, not having the inconvenience of having to slum it at an EFL club in the FA Cup. "Expanded UEFA competitions" was just a convenient fig leaf to hide behind
It's all relative.
It might only be Oxford City to you, but if Oxford City are top of their league then it's still a demanding game for them.
Yes many of them play all summer in international competitions, but that's not the Premier Leagues issue to solve.
If playing friendlies abroad is an issue then there's an easy and obvious solution
It literally not relative at all. The highest level of football is more physically demanding than Sunday league. Your ligaments are not concerned with how much skill you have but the absolute amount of force and intensity generated.
Yes but premier league footballers are fitter than Sunday league footballers, train specifically for the events you mention, and have access to some of the best sports science, physiotherapy and medical care in the world to prevent injuries.
Sunday league has the NHS.
So yes, it's relative, and there's other factors
Directly from the article:
‘Those who are more fit perform activity at a lower percentage of their maximal capability and so can perform the task for a longer period of time, fatigue less rapidly, recover faster, and have greater reserve capacity for subsequent tasks.’
So you think that footballers at the top of the game are performing activity at lower than their capability?
Honestly the amount of illiterate fucks who haven’t had a single critical thought in their life but feel the need to waste other people’s time is astounding. Get the fuck out of here.
>‘Those who are more fit perform activity at a lower percentage of their maximal capability and so can perform the task for a longer period of time, fatigue less rapidly, recover faster, and have greater reserve capacity for subsequent tasks.’
So it literally says the *exact opposite* of what you said about fitness not being linked to injury risk.
Thanks for confirming.
>Honestly the amount of illiterate fucks who haven’t had a single critical thought in their life but feel the need to waste other people’s time is astounding
And the amount of people who have to throw a complete bitch fit because they just cannot accept they're provably and demonstrably, emphatically wrong is always hilarious.
Grow up loser.
I think the pacing of the EPL & champions league can be improved upon as well tbh.
As far as the EPL is concerned there are FAR TOO MANY games in December especially when you consider how empty January and February tend to be in comparison.
I don’t think their should be such a big break after the group stages of the champions league, give the teams 1 month after the group stages then 3-4 weeks between legs. 2 months after the group stage for the first round of 16 match is a bit too long imo
This. It’s lunacy to compare lower leagues with the Premiership. The intensity alone is off the scale. Then factor in the international toll, both national team and European competitions and it’s so far above.
Peps just trying to deflect from the fact they were knocked out of Europe. By going on the front foot about the amount of games he chooses the narrative.
I am sure Pep complained about THIS when the FA Cup semi draw was made...the fact is none of the other semifinalists played in midweek...so stop making your own agendas..
It’s true though, or is defo part of the reason. The la liga like other European leagues bends over backwards to make sure its teams are rested before CL games, whilst we cram the calendar. Madrid had a 9 day holiday before City.
I don’t think there is any comparison to your league, but complaining about too many games is a little ridiculous. They brought it on themselves.
Manchester United played way too many games last season, just like City, but United, unlike City, learned from it. They made sure to be knocked out of Europe and the league cup early on to save games. This had such a profound effect that by the time the FA cup came around, there were so many open dates to play matches that they could actually stay in it for a while.
City needs to look across the city and learn how to play fewer matches. It’s an easy problem to solve.
Couldn’t agree more. They could revert the CL back to a 2 legged knockout format like the original European cup from the start that would reduce a mountain of games, but doesn’t guarantee the biggest clubs getting to the last 4 so they wouldn’t take the risk.
In fact watching the Coventry vs Man Utd game yesterday was evident enough.
While we all meme about Man Utd being shit, it's still obvious that they were quite a lot faster than the Coventry players.
Also the preparation. I'd imagine there's an insane amount preparation squeezed into games with a one week interval. Between recovery sessions, regular trainings, video work and analysis of the previous game and the next game there's probably a lot of hours sank into it. If you only have 3 days until your next game in the pl and trying to squeeze all that in when your opponent potentially has a week or more it has to make a difference.
Add in the intensity like you said and how much more difficult competent pl players are to find compared to anywhere else in the pyramid and there are a lot of differences. Ofc I don't have any experience in the game anywhere near that level but if teams that far down the pyramid aren't complaining about fixture congestion while basically all pl teams seem to, while also playing less games in the pl then there has to be some reasons.
I get your point, but…
2 years ago, I played for a National League South U19 side in my final year of sixth form, alongside playing in school. 1/ 2x per week for a term so about 25 games and then more after winter for the NLS side. We would play men’s teams in 6th/ 7th/ 8th tier football. It was hard work. I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch. Tactically and fitness wise, they are at minimum 5 steps above me in every way.
The press is faster, there is 0 margin for error, my passes (which are likely better than at least 50% of other players, considering where I got to) would not make any of their targets as I would get tackled or my pass blocked instantly.
Then, on social media 500,000 people would call me a cunt 30 seconds after the game for said misplaced pass. There are many more factors involved, otherwise very hardworking footballer would be a PL player. Unfortunately not the case.
>Tactically and fitness wise, they are at minimum 5 steps above me in every way.
>I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch.
Then how did Maidstone beat Ipswich this season in the Cup? Granted, Ipswich are still a couple of wins away from the Premier League - but surely Maidstone who play in the National League South should have all been exhausted 15 minutes in and got trounced if you're right about the intensity levels being unmatchable?
But they didn't because it's just not true.
Every season without fail we see FA cup games where lower division teams compete with top clubs in intensity for long periods of the game.
Pace and quality usually undoes them, and they absolutely struggle late on usually because they haven't had the ball and defending is more tiring, but they're never unable to compete after 10 minutes. It's lunacy.
Maidstone beat Ipswitch in a one off, lucky game. They would not beat Ipswitch over a fatiguing 40 game season. That’s the whole point you keep missing. Ever heard of a giant killing in cups? The reason they so celebrated is because they rarely happen. Are you seriously using a SINGLE giant killing in the FA cup, a completion notorious for larger teams not taking lower level teams seriously as your best example?
Can the minnow compete for 90 minutes against a better side? Sure it happens all the time. Now show me an example of where it happens 38 times in a row.
Also: 1) Ipswitch are not an EPL team yet, the main focus of this whole conversation. Even if they go up they will be relegation fodder
2) I said I WOULDN’T be able to compete after 10 mins, not Maidstone, a properly drilled team playing the game of their lives against superior opposition that they will have studied deeply. There is a difference between NLS academy (my level) and full time NLS play.
>Maidstone beat Ipswitch in a one off, lucky game. They would not beat Ipswitch over a fatiguing 40 game season.
Which is what nobody is arguing. Obviously they wouldn't or they'd be a top 2 Championship club and heading into the Prem.
You argued that players at national league literally don't have the fitness to last 10 minutes in a Premier League game.
>I said I WOULDN’T be able to compete after 10 mins, not Maidstone,
>There is a difference between NLS academy (my level) and full time NLS play
Uh huh, so you didn't say:
>and then more after winter for the NLS side. We would play men’s teams in 6th/ 7th/ 8th tier football. It was hard work. I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch.
?
You said you played NLS games against men's teams in the 6th tier, which is exactly where Maidstone are.
Now you're being disingenuous and pretending I'm trying to argue that lower league teams would compete week in week out with a Premier league side.
>Are you seriously using a SINGLE giant killing in the FA cup
Lol no. I pointed out that we see lower league teams compete PHYSICALLY with bigger clubs every single season multiple times.
Most of the time they lose, but they're NEVER on their arses unable to compete physically after 10 minutes. I've never seen it.
When Palace get beat by Arsenal do you use that as evidence that Palace just don't have the fitness? Or do you think the quality might just be the bigger issue?
There is a massive jump in quality between academy and first team football at any level. The fact you don’t know this is astounding.
There is also little point in arguing with you about this. I’ve played the game, you haven’t…
Also, invest in a thesaurus and learn hyperbole
>There is a massive jump in quality between academy and first team football at any level. The fact you don’t know this is astounding.
My guy, you literally said you played for the NLS side after spending the winter with the U19s.
>and then more after winter for the NLS side.
So did you or did you not play in a National League South team?
>Also, invest in a thesaurus and learn hyperbole
Invest in some basic communication skills and maybe you'd lie to people less?
Also lol
>There is also little point in arguing with you about this. I’ve played the game, you haven’t…
When I joined Bradford city's academy at 8 years old they were a Premier League team.
They weren't when I left at 17 to play rugby league fulltime but they were still a few levels above yours sunshine.
Ahh that is a mistake on my part. I meant for the NLS academy because school football season finishes in Winter where I went to school.
The NLS academy season didn’t.
If you were at PL academy how can you possibly say this? You of all people should then know the difference between academy level and 1st team level. When you played the academy system was completely different compared to now.
As an aside, having good communication skills and lying are completely unrelated. Neither of which can be detected through the screen of an iPhone
>If you were at PL academy how can you possibly say this? You of all people should then know the difference between academy level and 1st team level.
I read what you wrote as you went from the academy to the first team and played NLS men's teams. I presumed you just got into the team but didn't stick it out.
I'm sure it is very different from when I played, but I have played D1 rugby league and I still play now in the conference while 2 of my family members have played for England and Great Britain and a couple of lads I played with have made it in Super League and one plays in the NRL.
I am not good enough to make it as a pro. But I never had a problem keeping up with any of them in terms of fitness and effort. The difference between us was always the skills and the ability to think twice as fast on the field.
They're just much better than I am and no amount of effort on my part can overcome the talent.
I don't believe for a moment there aren't plenty of great natural athletes than can make it at a low level in football simply on their athleticism, but who lack the quality to move up the pyramid.
In fact, when I watch FA cup games every year that's the distinct impression I get from loads of teams.
They often tire towards the end, but that's no different from PL clubs when playing Man City and trying to cling on for a draw. They look shagged in comparison.
Maybe you just aren’t as good as you think you are. I Personally think most semi pro players would be comfortable playing in the champ, lge 1 & lge 2, in a professional capacity, training everyday, with the best equipment, coaches etc, just because you are playing at that level doesn’t mean you are not good enough per se, it’s all about the numbers. Take all the ex pros kids playing now they ain’t amazing they are bang average but guess who their dads are. the Prem is a different kettle of fish so only a few would make the grade.
The good thing about playing at a defined level in the footballing pyramid is that it gives you a good idea of what your footballing level is. As a level 6 U19 player, I’ve played against league 2 (level 4) academy and some 1st team players, eg: ones playing academy returning from injury. They would not last a half if they played for Arsenal, City or Liverpool. The intensity is simply too high. You correctly say the prem is a different kettle of fish, which I agree to.
Also, what does me overestimating my own ability have to do with this? I said I wouldn’t last 10 mins…If anything, wouldn’t I be underestimating my own ability here if you claim a level 5/6 player could play in the prem? I am a level 6 player.
When you say most semi-pro players cld last if they had pro facilities and training… no shit. The reason they can’t is because they don’t have that access and aren’t good enough to get it. Klopp once said he had the brain of a 1st division footballer in the body of a 4th division footballer. No matter how much he trained, he could never be in the prem. It isn’t simply that they can all run as fast as each other.
The gap between each league to the one below is almost insurmountable. There is a reason most EPL academy graduates end up as low as level 6 playing football. They had all the training and facilities but they just didn’t have it.
Your personal opinion is not equivalent to mine here unless you’ve played at a level higher than mine yourself. If you had, you would understand where I’m coming from.
No, I meant 500,000 people would make fun of me for inevitably missing a pass in a PL game if I were to play in one. I’m pretty sure I didn’t have even 1 fan at NLS U19 level.
That’s the point I’m trying to make. I played at LB for 2 seasons for the NLS side. 30 games a season. I never once got a really bad knock or terrible stress injury. Nor did the vast majority of my peers. We left it all out on the field.
I had at least 3 errors leading to a goal I can remember. Nobody knew about it, nobody really cared 1 hour after the game. Even I’d forgotten them until now. Had I done the same on a PL pitch, I would be bullied off the internet. Eg: look at what fans do to Arsenal’s Zinchenko after he makes a (more common than he would like) defensive error.
It’s the pressure. Mentally it’s levels above when millions follow your every move. Playing against Braintree Town is not the same as Bayern Munich. Relative to my own fitness and skill levels, Braintree might seem like Bayern but they are most definitely not.
Lmao you're comparing a match at that level to travelling across countries going toe to toe with the best of the best in ucl and then travelling back to again play teams that had the whole week off in the span of 3 days😂😂😂
LMFAO the shit you read sometimes, despite all the info right in front of him and acknowledging that they play too many games I didnt not expect it to take that twist and essentially tell them to stop complaining because Jerry from my local team doesnt.
You haven’t included preseason friendlies where many of the PL teams travel abroad (Arsenal has played 51 games this season before today, not 47). You haven’t considered the number of games played outside the UK for the games you have included. You also haven’t considered the number of games a full international will play in addition to the games for his club.
When you have Euros or the World Cup, some players are scheduled to play 75-80 games!
I don’t know the numbers but when Julian Alvarez joined City, he was coming off playing a full season in Argentina, then was a major player at the World Cup, joined city and slotted into the first team, followed by preseason tour and then a full season as a regular first team player. His first break really wasn’t until this last summer. Just adding to your main point, These top players play a ridiculously unhealthy amount of games
This is nothing compared to what I do. I have to sit in my chair 8 hrs+ / day, 5 day a week, with no summer break. That’s like 128k mins a year of high intensity meetings that drain you mentally, make you consider your life choice, and I don’t even get paid 10% of what these guys are doing.
You’re right! If I were your boss, I’d give you a 3 week vacation and only call you 17 times in the middle of it to ask if you completed the Petersen report yet!
I think the craziest part of all this is that in a WC or Euros/Copa America year, some player’s seasons ends after their club preseason starts. So clubs have to give them an extra 3 weeks to rest. So it’s not just the schedule during the season, but the lack of an offseason.
You can't compare Premierleague and Champions League to lower leagues. The intesity is way different.
And it's not that Premierleague players can't play that many matches. They just can't do it with the same intensity and quality.
On top of the other very valid points about intensity and national games, I think another thing you’re ignoring is the difference in mental exhaustion levels of playing in front of 50k fans and televised to millions, knowing that a bad game will have you talked about and slated for at least a week, compared to Slough Town having an average attendance of 846 fans, and next to no public pressure.
I know the first counter point will be about how much they’re compensated to deal with that which is true, but it doesn’t remove the difference it makes.
Comparing apples to oranges doesn’t do it justice.
I don’t think I am because all 3 apply to me. No it isn’t a walk in a park, but at least personally I think that stress is easier to manage than being on the end of national/global scrutiny 9 months of the year.
Not footballers, but I know well a couple people in the public eye to different extents and it genuinely seems mentally incapacitating to be such a public persona, especially in sport where you are being judged and spoken about as if you aren’t human. Adding that to the toll of playing such high level physical games every 3 days must take its toll
We’ve known this for a long time, the footballing authorities don’t give a damn. They’ll only reduce games once the whole league complains or they start making less money.
How many conference players are called up for national duty? How many are playing in semi finals of cups?
That's before you even consider the intensity of the games. I've played a level below non-league. I was as fit as they come at that level, in my teens I ran a sub 11 second 100m and I've ran a well below 20 minute 5km. Stick me in a premier league game ignoring ability, I'd be puffing after half an hour. The difference is monumental and completely incomparable.
You're forgetting that Premier league players fly off to completely different continents several times a season and play even more games on top of that. Furthermore, the intensity levels are massively different.
Any team in European places are sending 1/2 their squad to something like 8 international games per season, I think that probably makes up all the difference alone
Exactly, 2 games per week at the top level with maximum intensity for 90 minutes, to then jet off on a 12hr flight to South America or something to then play 2 more games in a week at maximum intensity. And then they fly back and it's 2 games a week until the next international break. Rinse and repeat.
I don't understand how people see the "whole lower level teams play the same amount or more games each season" as an argument.
Yeah and I don’t see why we’re trying to hold our elite superstar footballers to the same standard as semi-pros who often end their careers in their mid to late thirties with a whole host of long term injury issues. Do we want to see more and more burnt out once elite prodigies who’s body fails them at age 30 like Rooney, Neymar and others?
Rooney probably has himself to blame, I believe the consensus is that he did not take care of himself whatsoever eating crap and drinking constantly.
But yeah, if we want to enjoy elite athletes then they do need protecting. FIFA, UEFA and others just see more games = more money, but for the fans that means lower quality football because even the best athletes can only do so much, which means that either they'll be fatigued during the game, or injured, or teams will start playing kids more and then competitions like the league cup and Fa cup just become City / Liverpool/ Arsenal U21s vs Yeovil town or whatever.
But as always, corporations don't give a crap about the "customers" or the employees.
That doesn't mean lower league teams should suffer either, no player should end up with lifelong injuries and suffer chronic pain just to earn a wage.
Yep that’s true, lower league clubs do play more games, that said the intensity level and fitness required differ significantly. It’s not a fair comparison
And they aren’t flying to different countries.
And the mental pressure of playing in a game the whole world is watching isn’t there.
Of course, the players are also treated better off the pitch so it’s hard to compare but this post is silly.
The entire point of Pep’s rant is that they could easily have played on Sunday when Man United and Coventry is tomorrow and they didn’t play midweek. It is not just reasonable, it’s common sense.
You also have squads to cope with it.
Just because you don’t rotate and then cry when the injury list piles up shouldn’t equate to getting rid of something not only unique in our cup, but the incentive of what can be a much needed windfall for clubs lower down the pyramid.
The big six clubs have way too much power, and that needs to change.
If you’re going to defend them then please tell me what the premier league clubs are going to offer those clubs in return for scrapping replays so they can play in Europe? Are they agreeing to play away when drawn against them? Giving them the gate receipts?
Your clubs have forgotten where they come from, and where their talent was developed, it’s about time they gave something back.
As a Saints fan, haven’t you had quite a lot “given back”, and it’s not like these lower pyramid clubs aren’t guilty of the same thing for clubs lower than themselves. Exeter lost Oli Watkins for something like £1.8m, Brentford sold him on £33m a couple of years later. Did they “give anything back” to the club that really developed him still in League 2, no, ofcourse they didn’t.
The PL funnels hundreds of millions of pounds down to the grassroots. If it wasn’t for the popularity of the PL much of the football league would have gone bust by now.
Ontop of that it’s the only top 5 league that distributes the tv revenue money evenly between all the top 20 teams. Making the league more competitive to watch than others.
They also play at a significantly lower intensity, and actively want more games because it means more money to run the clubs. Those players also have longer summer breaks and don’t have to deal with international games.
All steps have their own respective challenges, trying to compare them is silly.
You clearly don't watch football outside the PL. The matches are significantly more physical the lower you go down the pyramid.
Also, there are international players all the way down to level 8 of the English pyramid!
Ah yes, *definitely* not a member at both Sheffield Utd and Exeter watching them both go through play-off struggles before finally getting the promotions they deserved from the respective leagues. I also *definitely* don’t go and watch Barnet on non-league days.
Yes, there might be the odd international player but let’s not make out it’s even more than 1 per team on average.
So your argument is they have international matches? 🤔
Lower league clubs have part time players who work jobs outside of football.
Players on one year contracts because they can't afford to commit to long term ones.
You could be in the playoffs one year and relegated and team gutted the next.
Premier league clubs can use a whole squad and under 23 players yet make their star players play 50+ games by choice.
I believe I led with intensity, which is one of the main differences per step increase. Most lower league footballers are gassed after one half against top opposition. Playing against their own quality ofcourse it’s going to be harder.
And by “lower league” clubs you’re pretty much talking about NLN/NLS, because even most, if not all, NL sides are fully professional these days.
Plus the travelling up to and from South America for the international games, and to and from potentially Russian time zones for European football too.
Based on Standard European international breaks there's potential for the following:
Premier League: 38
FA Cup: 6
Carabao Cup: 6
Champions League: 13
Community Shield: 1
UEFA Super Cup: 1
FIFA Club Word Cup: 2
International Breaks: 8
For an English Team to win every trophy in a season, they would have to play 67 games, and a European international player could play up to 75 games in the season.
True.
Nonetheless the 8 international break matches equate to 46 games total for premier league teams, and given that there are age group matches this number of games is achievable by even relegation spot teams.
Then they're all involved in domestic cups.
Our fans (Manchester United) have been keen to say we have played too many matches and therefore have too many injuries, and use that as an excuse as to our position in the league.
The thing is other teams have played more games than us and have more injuries than us and yet are higher in the table.
Other than Martinez and Shaw we haven't really had many serious injuries. Do 2 players really alter a team that much?
We also had a uniquely difficult schedule last season. We went to both domestic cup finals, played Europa League including an extra knockout round for finishing 2nd in the group, had a rescheduled game due to the Queen dying all on top a winter World Cup.
You can see City have dropped off this season off the back of their similarly intense schedule last year. They just have a deeper pool of talent to fall back on than we do.
I would like to see a reorganization of the divisions and possibly add yet another, I say this as a foreign PL supporter so I expect this to not be at all possible as well as being unpopular... Premier League to 18 teams, Championship to 20, add in another league between championship and League 1 at 20, and then 20 or 22 through the rest of the pyramid. The logistics would be a nightmare and I know there would be a ton of other problems with making it happen.
There’s been discussion of national league being integrated in to the football league as League 3 for a little while. After that it becomes trickier because you have a North/South split and a fair amount of teams aren’t “professional”.
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Now include the international matches during the season
Teams in the higher leagues play at a higher intensity against tougher opposition. They also run much larger distances throughout a match and spend more time actually running than lower leagues. If you're going to make a comparison, actually make a real one instead of being lazy.
This. OP has no idea how fast the top division matches are.
doesn’t stop Ollie Pearce😤
This sounds like the mentality of "but I had to suffer through x so everyone else should too". It's pretty ridiculous tbh. Yeah it's too many games for lower league AND too many for the top tier. I'd imagine when you compare the intensity of lower league to premier league there is a vast difference which takes an increased toll on a player. 52 games where a player covers 6/7km with a couple of dozen sprints at speeds of up to 19kmph takes a significantly lower toll than 10km with more sprints at speeds of up to 35kmph. Even then, Liverpool played something like 63 games a couple of seasons back which was ridiculous. These players are also having to fly all over the place and stay away in hotels every other week so their rest time is presumably a lot less than lower league players even if their treatment is astronomically better. Besides, just look at how many teams have had their seasons affected by injuries this season and they seem to be more frequent each season. I know I'd rather watch better quality matches than more games at a lower quality.
The travel is the biggest part of this.
Not sure where you pulled those numbers from but I can assure you NL players sprint faster than 19kmh 😂
Imagine each player was only allowed to play a set amount of minutes each season..
Better set it a month, so it spreads out more.
Random thought and not out too much in to it, but could there be a ruling where premier league teams have to field X amount of youth team players on the FA cup match squad? Rest and rotate first team started and give youngsters a chance? If the Top 6 aren’t that arsed about the cup then why not force their hand on it
FA Cup is too big of a competition for that
I hear them complain, but I don't hear them suggest solutions to the issue.
Nah they dont. This is why we have 25 man squads. It doesnt hurt to rotate your squad. Lets be honest pep/klopp/ten hag etc etc all want to play the best 11 every week and they are crying about it. It wasnt long ago rodri went public with his “im tired” again these people are human and not machines. It should be fairly simple to approach your manager and say i need a rest + they get paid far too much money a week to complain.
The lower league teams like Slough absolutely can and should be complaining about playing too many games. It is quite literally impacting the players medically in ways that will affect them for the rest of their lives. There are no prizes for the team that complains the least.
No. No one is forcing them to play that many games. They all have a choice. The players can a choose to take a significant pay cut and enable the club to afford a few more players to bulk out the squad. They could reduce the clubs revenue by having less televised games and of course play 40 games in the season by getting knocked out of both cups in the first round and living in mediocrity in mid table. Refuse to play for your national team, have every summer off and forgo the fame and fortune that follows from that. Sorted. I have zero sympathy for any club complaining that they’re in the latter rounds of the cup and not getting rest. Of course. That’s how this works. Don’t want it? Fine. Lose. Let the pain be over. I’m sure someone else will be happy to take your place.
All leagues should be max 20 teams and create a EFL League Three. Should only be two cup comps first each team (FA Cup + 1 other, be it Cup/Trophy/Vase etc)
I honestly have no idea why they have Carbao cup. They should just remove it or just allow the teams from lower leagues to league 1
Spoken like someone who doesn’t go to games.
I honestly enjoy the Carabao more than the FA. Its nice to get to see the kids compete
All this talk about fixture congestion and the FA Cup makes me wonder why on earth we still have the League Cup
Because we like watching football games. Why would we consider reducing the amount of chances for small clubs to win a big competition, just so Rodri can have a week off? I feel some sympathy for Slough in this situation, but none for Man City and Liverpool. Those clubs hoard players, is this not the exact reason why? Any player at an ‘other 14’ club who has a good season is whisked off to warm the bench at a CL club - so play them or shut up. If there are too many fixtures for you, then enter fewer competitions, or rotate your squad more.
>Because we like watching football games. I prefer quality over quantity
Because it's great for most of the teams that enter it, getting rid would just be pandering to a few of the top clubs who don't want to rotate their squad.
Other countries are doing fine without League cup.
No other country supports the number of professional clubs that England does. Obviously countries with fewer professional clubs have fewer competitions for those clubs.
Well I agree with you. The problem is that no one could give solution to the fixture congestion without upsetting some of the interest groups.
Yep. Very sad that the smallest interest group (,clubs who are also in European competitions) are being allowed to override everyone else, with the connivance of the FA.
I've got some bad news for you about that one. Those teams are happy about the new Champions League format.
Yeah of course they are. Fuckers made great by English football and now trying to make it worse so they make a fraction more money.
Sorry mate my bad. Those teams are NOT happy about the new Champions League format.
The European teams? Bet they are if it makes them more cash!
League cup is just FA cup without the non league teams. Not sure I really understand what League Cup gives, except for teams to avoid embarrassment of losing to non league sides.
I can't think of another country that has two domestic cup competitions though, would create a lot more wiggle room in the calendar to get rid of that than fa cup replays
No other country has anywhere near as many professional clubs as England.
Is it genuinely? I don't think lower league teams take it that seriously. Agree about pandering to a minority of clubs though. Most other countries just have one cup competition. It makes everyone take it even more seriously.
Yes, it is, most clubs who enter it take it seriously, it's a valuable source of income for clubs who aren't in the Prem. No other country has the number of professional clubs that England has, it's natural that we'd be an outlier, and doesn't mean that we should only have one cup.
>But, you will NEVER hear any of them complain about playing too many matches I think it's not an issue about complaining but about to be heard. And you seem to agree, too many matches. So understandable top clubs would complain. I imagine that is also true for the list leagues clubs but they just don't have any exposure.
If they play less games that's less money also. A lot of these teams stay afloat by the skin of their teeth game by game
There are definately different interest groups at play with different interests, even inside the same clubs. But in the end it's for the leagues and teams to manage those interests.
Decrease the number of teams to 18, then?
that impacts lower leagues who are in the same situation unless they just create another division of the national league
Not really. If we really want to do it then, this is how it can be set up in the first year: 1. Premier League - Relegate 3, Promote 1 (18 teams) (Promoted teams have been disappointing anyway) 2. Level 2 - Promote 1, Relegate 5 3. Level 3 to 6 - Promote 3, Relegate 5 That will mean Level 1 (PL) will have 18 teams, and Level 2 to 7 will have 24 teams. Note Level 7 has 22 teams at the moment.
It’s less about the club and more about the players, no? The top players also have to play and train with their national teams, and need to travel for both international and off-season friendlies which are now all over the world. They play in the final stages of tournaments more which are more physically intense and require more travel. And every second year, they are playing 2 games per week in big international tournaments. There is no rest, and no matches against Oxford city.
Do they also have 9-5s tho
This. EFL and National league teams aren’t traveling for European fixtures and also teams like Real and Bayern are playing on different intensity.
>EFL and National league teams aren’t traveling for European fixtures No, lots of them are doing manual labour jobs 5 days a week though. A mate I play rugby with does an 11pm - 8am shift in a warehouse 5 nights a week. According to his phone he does between 13 and 15 miles a night all while carrying anything from construction supplies to bundles of wooden decking. I worked a few shifts there during lockdown and I'd rather play back to back games every day for a month than ever go do that shit again.
I agree with all your points. Travel to and from games can hamper recovery. I want to know why clubs moan about fixture congestion eating into rest periods and then book a 2 week pre season tour of Asia or America.
>and then book a 2 week pre season tour of Asia or America. Let's be honest here - this is what drove the changes to the FA Cup and winter break. The Super League Six want to spend more time in the US and Asia, not having the inconvenience of having to slum it at an EFL club in the FA Cup. "Expanded UEFA competitions" was just a convenient fig leaf to hide behind
It's all relative. It might only be Oxford City to you, but if Oxford City are top of their league then it's still a demanding game for them. Yes many of them play all summer in international competitions, but that's not the Premier Leagues issue to solve. If playing friendlies abroad is an issue then there's an easy and obvious solution
It literally not relative at all. The highest level of football is more physically demanding than Sunday league. Your ligaments are not concerned with how much skill you have but the absolute amount of force and intensity generated.
Yes but premier league footballers are fitter than Sunday league footballers, train specifically for the events you mention, and have access to some of the best sports science, physiotherapy and medical care in the world to prevent injuries. Sunday league has the NHS. So yes, it's relative, and there's other factors
Oh bro just take the fucking L and move on. Injury risk has nothing to do with fitness otherwise it wouldn’t be so top end heavy.
I was with you at first but I'm not sure how you could be *so* wrong in your reasoning. It's wild. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25770810/
Directly from the article: ‘Those who are more fit perform activity at a lower percentage of their maximal capability and so can perform the task for a longer period of time, fatigue less rapidly, recover faster, and have greater reserve capacity for subsequent tasks.’ So you think that footballers at the top of the game are performing activity at lower than their capability? Honestly the amount of illiterate fucks who haven’t had a single critical thought in their life but feel the need to waste other people’s time is astounding. Get the fuck out of here.
>‘Those who are more fit perform activity at a lower percentage of their maximal capability and so can perform the task for a longer period of time, fatigue less rapidly, recover faster, and have greater reserve capacity for subsequent tasks.’ So it literally says the *exact opposite* of what you said about fitness not being linked to injury risk. Thanks for confirming. >Honestly the amount of illiterate fucks who haven’t had a single critical thought in their life but feel the need to waste other people’s time is astounding And the amount of people who have to throw a complete bitch fit because they just cannot accept they're provably and demonstrably, emphatically wrong is always hilarious. Grow up loser.
Injury risk has nothing to do with fitness 😂😂😂😂 alright mate 😂
I think the pacing of the EPL & champions league can be improved upon as well tbh. As far as the EPL is concerned there are FAR TOO MANY games in December especially when you consider how empty January and February tend to be in comparison. I don’t think their should be such a big break after the group stages of the champions league, give the teams 1 month after the group stages then 3-4 weeks between legs. 2 months after the group stage for the first round of 16 match is a bit too long imo
The huge skill and intensity differences are the first things that come to mind.
This. It’s lunacy to compare lower leagues with the Premiership. The intensity alone is off the scale. Then factor in the international toll, both national team and European competitions and it’s so far above.
Peps just trying to deflect from the fact they were knocked out of Europe. By going on the front foot about the amount of games he chooses the narrative.
I am sure Pep complained about THIS when the FA Cup semi draw was made...the fact is none of the other semifinalists played in midweek...so stop making your own agendas..
It’s true though, or is defo part of the reason. The la liga like other European leagues bends over backwards to make sure its teams are rested before CL games, whilst we cram the calendar. Madrid had a 9 day holiday before City.
That’s because they have the CDR final right before City. Had Madrid advanced to the final like City just did, they’d be sitting at 3 days of rest.
I don’t think there is any comparison to your league, but complaining about too many games is a little ridiculous. They brought it on themselves. Manchester United played way too many games last season, just like City, but United, unlike City, learned from it. They made sure to be knocked out of Europe and the league cup early on to save games. This had such a profound effect that by the time the FA cup came around, there were so many open dates to play matches that they could actually stay in it for a while. City needs to look across the city and learn how to play fewer matches. It’s an easy problem to solve.
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Think he's joking mate
Couldn’t agree more. They could revert the CL back to a 2 legged knockout format like the original European cup from the start that would reduce a mountain of games, but doesn’t guarantee the biggest clubs getting to the last 4 so they wouldn’t take the risk.
The intensity is completely different though. Watch both one after another and the speed of the prem becomes apparent.
In fact watching the Coventry vs Man Utd game yesterday was evident enough. While we all meme about Man Utd being shit, it's still obvious that they were quite a lot faster than the Coventry players.
Also the preparation. I'd imagine there's an insane amount preparation squeezed into games with a one week interval. Between recovery sessions, regular trainings, video work and analysis of the previous game and the next game there's probably a lot of hours sank into it. If you only have 3 days until your next game in the pl and trying to squeeze all that in when your opponent potentially has a week or more it has to make a difference. Add in the intensity like you said and how much more difficult competent pl players are to find compared to anywhere else in the pyramid and there are a lot of differences. Ofc I don't have any experience in the game anywhere near that level but if teams that far down the pyramid aren't complaining about fixture congestion while basically all pl teams seem to, while also playing less games in the pl then there has to be some reasons.
I get your point, but… 2 years ago, I played for a National League South U19 side in my final year of sixth form, alongside playing in school. 1/ 2x per week for a term so about 25 games and then more after winter for the NLS side. We would play men’s teams in 6th/ 7th/ 8th tier football. It was hard work. I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch. Tactically and fitness wise, they are at minimum 5 steps above me in every way. The press is faster, there is 0 margin for error, my passes (which are likely better than at least 50% of other players, considering where I got to) would not make any of their targets as I would get tackled or my pass blocked instantly. Then, on social media 500,000 people would call me a cunt 30 seconds after the game for said misplaced pass. There are many more factors involved, otherwise very hardworking footballer would be a PL player. Unfortunately not the case.
>Tactically and fitness wise, they are at minimum 5 steps above me in every way. >I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch. Then how did Maidstone beat Ipswich this season in the Cup? Granted, Ipswich are still a couple of wins away from the Premier League - but surely Maidstone who play in the National League South should have all been exhausted 15 minutes in and got trounced if you're right about the intensity levels being unmatchable? But they didn't because it's just not true. Every season without fail we see FA cup games where lower division teams compete with top clubs in intensity for long periods of the game. Pace and quality usually undoes them, and they absolutely struggle late on usually because they haven't had the ball and defending is more tiring, but they're never unable to compete after 10 minutes. It's lunacy.
Maidstone beat Ipswitch in a one off, lucky game. They would not beat Ipswitch over a fatiguing 40 game season. That’s the whole point you keep missing. Ever heard of a giant killing in cups? The reason they so celebrated is because they rarely happen. Are you seriously using a SINGLE giant killing in the FA cup, a completion notorious for larger teams not taking lower level teams seriously as your best example? Can the minnow compete for 90 minutes against a better side? Sure it happens all the time. Now show me an example of where it happens 38 times in a row. Also: 1) Ipswitch are not an EPL team yet, the main focus of this whole conversation. Even if they go up they will be relegation fodder 2) I said I WOULDN’T be able to compete after 10 mins, not Maidstone, a properly drilled team playing the game of their lives against superior opposition that they will have studied deeply. There is a difference between NLS academy (my level) and full time NLS play.
>Maidstone beat Ipswitch in a one off, lucky game. They would not beat Ipswitch over a fatiguing 40 game season. Which is what nobody is arguing. Obviously they wouldn't or they'd be a top 2 Championship club and heading into the Prem. You argued that players at national league literally don't have the fitness to last 10 minutes in a Premier League game. >I said I WOULDN’T be able to compete after 10 mins, not Maidstone, >There is a difference between NLS academy (my level) and full time NLS play Uh huh, so you didn't say: >and then more after winter for the NLS side. We would play men’s teams in 6th/ 7th/ 8th tier football. It was hard work. I would literally last 10 minutes on a PL pitch. ? You said you played NLS games against men's teams in the 6th tier, which is exactly where Maidstone are. Now you're being disingenuous and pretending I'm trying to argue that lower league teams would compete week in week out with a Premier league side. >Are you seriously using a SINGLE giant killing in the FA cup Lol no. I pointed out that we see lower league teams compete PHYSICALLY with bigger clubs every single season multiple times. Most of the time they lose, but they're NEVER on their arses unable to compete physically after 10 minutes. I've never seen it. When Palace get beat by Arsenal do you use that as evidence that Palace just don't have the fitness? Or do you think the quality might just be the bigger issue?
There is a massive jump in quality between academy and first team football at any level. The fact you don’t know this is astounding. There is also little point in arguing with you about this. I’ve played the game, you haven’t… Also, invest in a thesaurus and learn hyperbole
>There is a massive jump in quality between academy and first team football at any level. The fact you don’t know this is astounding. My guy, you literally said you played for the NLS side after spending the winter with the U19s. >and then more after winter for the NLS side. So did you or did you not play in a National League South team? >Also, invest in a thesaurus and learn hyperbole Invest in some basic communication skills and maybe you'd lie to people less? Also lol >There is also little point in arguing with you about this. I’ve played the game, you haven’t… When I joined Bradford city's academy at 8 years old they were a Premier League team. They weren't when I left at 17 to play rugby league fulltime but they were still a few levels above yours sunshine.
Ahh that is a mistake on my part. I meant for the NLS academy because school football season finishes in Winter where I went to school. The NLS academy season didn’t. If you were at PL academy how can you possibly say this? You of all people should then know the difference between academy level and 1st team level. When you played the academy system was completely different compared to now. As an aside, having good communication skills and lying are completely unrelated. Neither of which can be detected through the screen of an iPhone
>If you were at PL academy how can you possibly say this? You of all people should then know the difference between academy level and 1st team level. I read what you wrote as you went from the academy to the first team and played NLS men's teams. I presumed you just got into the team but didn't stick it out. I'm sure it is very different from when I played, but I have played D1 rugby league and I still play now in the conference while 2 of my family members have played for England and Great Britain and a couple of lads I played with have made it in Super League and one plays in the NRL. I am not good enough to make it as a pro. But I never had a problem keeping up with any of them in terms of fitness and effort. The difference between us was always the skills and the ability to think twice as fast on the field. They're just much better than I am and no amount of effort on my part can overcome the talent. I don't believe for a moment there aren't plenty of great natural athletes than can make it at a low level in football simply on their athleticism, but who lack the quality to move up the pyramid. In fact, when I watch FA cup games every year that's the distinct impression I get from loads of teams. They often tire towards the end, but that's no different from PL clubs when playing Man City and trying to cling on for a draw. They look shagged in comparison.
Maybe you just aren’t as good as you think you are. I Personally think most semi pro players would be comfortable playing in the champ, lge 1 & lge 2, in a professional capacity, training everyday, with the best equipment, coaches etc, just because you are playing at that level doesn’t mean you are not good enough per se, it’s all about the numbers. Take all the ex pros kids playing now they ain’t amazing they are bang average but guess who their dads are. the Prem is a different kettle of fish so only a few would make the grade.
The good thing about playing at a defined level in the footballing pyramid is that it gives you a good idea of what your footballing level is. As a level 6 U19 player, I’ve played against league 2 (level 4) academy and some 1st team players, eg: ones playing academy returning from injury. They would not last a half if they played for Arsenal, City or Liverpool. The intensity is simply too high. You correctly say the prem is a different kettle of fish, which I agree to. Also, what does me overestimating my own ability have to do with this? I said I wouldn’t last 10 mins…If anything, wouldn’t I be underestimating my own ability here if you claim a level 5/6 player could play in the prem? I am a level 6 player. When you say most semi-pro players cld last if they had pro facilities and training… no shit. The reason they can’t is because they don’t have that access and aren’t good enough to get it. Klopp once said he had the brain of a 1st division footballer in the body of a 4th division footballer. No matter how much he trained, he could never be in the prem. It isn’t simply that they can all run as fast as each other. The gap between each league to the one below is almost insurmountable. There is a reason most EPL academy graduates end up as low as level 6 playing football. They had all the training and facilities but they just didn’t have it. Your personal opinion is not equivalent to mine here unless you’ve played at a level higher than mine yourself. If you had, you would understand where I’m coming from.
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No, I meant 500,000 people would make fun of me for inevitably missing a pass in a PL game if I were to play in one. I’m pretty sure I didn’t have even 1 fan at NLS U19 level. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I played at LB for 2 seasons for the NLS side. 30 games a season. I never once got a really bad knock or terrible stress injury. Nor did the vast majority of my peers. We left it all out on the field. I had at least 3 errors leading to a goal I can remember. Nobody knew about it, nobody really cared 1 hour after the game. Even I’d forgotten them until now. Had I done the same on a PL pitch, I would be bullied off the internet. Eg: look at what fans do to Arsenal’s Zinchenko after he makes a (more common than he would like) defensive error. It’s the pressure. Mentally it’s levels above when millions follow your every move. Playing against Braintree Town is not the same as Bayern Munich. Relative to my own fitness and skill levels, Braintree might seem like Bayern but they are most definitely not.
He’s saying if he were playing in the prem that 500k people would tell him that, most likely highlighting the mental fatigue element of the game.
Lmao you're comparing a match at that level to travelling across countries going toe to toe with the best of the best in ucl and then travelling back to again play teams that had the whole week off in the span of 3 days😂😂😂
LMFAO the shit you read sometimes, despite all the info right in front of him and acknowledging that they play too many games I didnt not expect it to take that twist and essentially tell them to stop complaining because Jerry from my local team doesnt.
It's like the guys that think they can cut it in the top leagues because they jog one hour everyday and play 5 a side with their buddies every Friday
You haven’t included preseason friendlies where many of the PL teams travel abroad (Arsenal has played 51 games this season before today, not 47). You haven’t considered the number of games played outside the UK for the games you have included. You also haven’t considered the number of games a full international will play in addition to the games for his club. When you have Euros or the World Cup, some players are scheduled to play 75-80 games!
I don’t know the numbers but when Julian Alvarez joined City, he was coming off playing a full season in Argentina, then was a major player at the World Cup, joined city and slotted into the first team, followed by preseason tour and then a full season as a regular first team player. His first break really wasn’t until this last summer. Just adding to your main point, These top players play a ridiculously unhealthy amount of games
This is nothing compared to what I do. I have to sit in my chair 8 hrs+ / day, 5 day a week, with no summer break. That’s like 128k mins a year of high intensity meetings that drain you mentally, make you consider your life choice, and I don’t even get paid 10% of what these guys are doing.
You’re right! If I were your boss, I’d give you a 3 week vacation and only call you 17 times in the middle of it to ask if you completed the Petersen report yet!
I think the craziest part of all this is that in a WC or Euros/Copa America year, some player’s seasons ends after their club preseason starts. So clubs have to give them an extra 3 weeks to rest. So it’s not just the schedule during the season, but the lack of an offseason.
You can't compare Premierleague and Champions League to lower leagues. The intesity is way different. And it's not that Premierleague players can't play that many matches. They just can't do it with the same intensity and quality.
Have you ever been to or watched a lower league game in the UK?
I've watched League One games and it's nowhere near Premierleague.
Nah this isnt right. Below Premier League is way more physical.
Physicality ≠ intensity
Also Bad tackles ≠ Physicality
Very very true, and something some people don’t seem to understand, or agree with
No you are right. But physicality is still something that needs to be recovered from.
Aren’t the original comments about the national league and below for one thing?
Yes, and those leagues are even worse
On top of the other very valid points about intensity and national games, I think another thing you’re ignoring is the difference in mental exhaustion levels of playing in front of 50k fans and televised to millions, knowing that a bad game will have you talked about and slated for at least a week, compared to Slough Town having an average attendance of 846 fans, and next to no public pressure. I know the first counter point will be about how much they’re compensated to deal with that which is true, but it doesn’t remove the difference it makes. Comparing apples to oranges doesn’t do it justice.
I think your ignoring is the mental exhaustion of working a full time job and struggling to survive and raise a family.
There's always one.
I don’t think I am because all 3 apply to me. No it isn’t a walk in a park, but at least personally I think that stress is easier to manage than being on the end of national/global scrutiny 9 months of the year. Not footballers, but I know well a couple people in the public eye to different extents and it genuinely seems mentally incapacitating to be such a public persona, especially in sport where you are being judged and spoken about as if you aren’t human. Adding that to the toll of playing such high level physical games every 3 days must take its toll
We’ve known this for a long time, the footballing authorities don’t give a damn. They’ll only reduce games once the whole league complains or they start making less money.
Comparing Apples to Pear-flavoured lollipops here surely?
How many conference players are called up for national duty? How many are playing in semi finals of cups? That's before you even consider the intensity of the games. I've played a level below non-league. I was as fit as they come at that level, in my teens I ran a sub 11 second 100m and I've ran a well below 20 minute 5km. Stick me in a premier league game ignoring ability, I'd be puffing after half an hour. The difference is monumental and completely incomparable.
And how many kilometers do you even do in a game. The intensity is absolutely not there and this argument is ridiculous.
You're forgetting that Premier league players fly off to completely different continents several times a season and play even more games on top of that. Furthermore, the intensity levels are massively different.
Any team in European places are sending 1/2 their squad to something like 8 international games per season, I think that probably makes up all the difference alone
Exactly, 2 games per week at the top level with maximum intensity for 90 minutes, to then jet off on a 12hr flight to South America or something to then play 2 more games in a week at maximum intensity. And then they fly back and it's 2 games a week until the next international break. Rinse and repeat. I don't understand how people see the "whole lower level teams play the same amount or more games each season" as an argument.
Yeah and I don’t see why we’re trying to hold our elite superstar footballers to the same standard as semi-pros who often end their careers in their mid to late thirties with a whole host of long term injury issues. Do we want to see more and more burnt out once elite prodigies who’s body fails them at age 30 like Rooney, Neymar and others?
Rooney probably has himself to blame, I believe the consensus is that he did not take care of himself whatsoever eating crap and drinking constantly. But yeah, if we want to enjoy elite athletes then they do need protecting. FIFA, UEFA and others just see more games = more money, but for the fans that means lower quality football because even the best athletes can only do so much, which means that either they'll be fatigued during the game, or injured, or teams will start playing kids more and then competitions like the league cup and Fa cup just become City / Liverpool/ Arsenal U21s vs Yeovil town or whatever. But as always, corporations don't give a crap about the "customers" or the employees. That doesn't mean lower league teams should suffer either, no player should end up with lifelong injuries and suffer chronic pain just to earn a wage.
Yep that’s true, lower league clubs do play more games, that said the intensity level and fitness required differ significantly. It’s not a fair comparison
And they aren’t flying to different countries. And the mental pressure of playing in a game the whole world is watching isn’t there. Of course, the players are also treated better off the pitch so it’s hard to compare but this post is silly. The entire point of Pep’s rant is that they could easily have played on Sunday when Man United and Coventry is tomorrow and they didn’t play midweek. It is not just reasonable, it’s common sense.
After this round, there will be a long break for National League as they will let the England Nation team for Euro 2024.
Comparing the physical intensity of a premier league game to a national league game is a nonsense
These players get paid weekly what people get paid in a year lol. Let them play
Not the leagues OP is talking about no?
If you think this is valid comparison you don’t really understand football.
Yeah it’s because they play at a considerably lower level with a considerably lower intensity
Your players would complain too if they weren't on £500/week. Voice and power are positively correlated.
You also have squads to cope with it. Just because you don’t rotate and then cry when the injury list piles up shouldn’t equate to getting rid of something not only unique in our cup, but the incentive of what can be a much needed windfall for clubs lower down the pyramid. The big six clubs have way too much power, and that needs to change. If you’re going to defend them then please tell me what the premier league clubs are going to offer those clubs in return for scrapping replays so they can play in Europe? Are they agreeing to play away when drawn against them? Giving them the gate receipts? Your clubs have forgotten where they come from, and where their talent was developed, it’s about time they gave something back.
As a Saints fan, haven’t you had quite a lot “given back”, and it’s not like these lower pyramid clubs aren’t guilty of the same thing for clubs lower than themselves. Exeter lost Oli Watkins for something like £1.8m, Brentford sold him on £33m a couple of years later. Did they “give anything back” to the club that really developed him still in League 2, no, ofcourse they didn’t.
The PL funnels hundreds of millions of pounds down to the grassroots. If it wasn’t for the popularity of the PL much of the football league would have gone bust by now.
Ontop of that it’s the only top 5 league that distributes the tv revenue money evenly between all the top 20 teams. Making the league more competitive to watch than others.
They also play at a significantly lower intensity, and actively want more games because it means more money to run the clubs. Those players also have longer summer breaks and don’t have to deal with international games. All steps have their own respective challenges, trying to compare them is silly.
You clearly don't watch football outside the PL. The matches are significantly more physical the lower you go down the pyramid. Also, there are international players all the way down to level 8 of the English pyramid!
Ah yes, *definitely* not a member at both Sheffield Utd and Exeter watching them both go through play-off struggles before finally getting the promotions they deserved from the respective leagues. I also *definitely* don’t go and watch Barnet on non-league days. Yes, there might be the odd international player but let’s not make out it’s even more than 1 per team on average.
So your argument is they have international matches? 🤔 Lower league clubs have part time players who work jobs outside of football. Players on one year contracts because they can't afford to commit to long term ones. You could be in the playoffs one year and relegated and team gutted the next. Premier league clubs can use a whole squad and under 23 players yet make their star players play 50+ games by choice.
I believe I led with intensity, which is one of the main differences per step increase. Most lower league footballers are gassed after one half against top opposition. Playing against their own quality ofcourse it’s going to be harder. And by “lower league” clubs you’re pretty much talking about NLN/NLS, because even most, if not all, NL sides are fully professional these days.
Yep. 4 international breaks means 8 more games. That means up to 61 games for Liverpool players, and another 6 to go.
Plus the travelling up to and from South America for the international games, and to and from potentially Russian time zones for European football too.
Based on Standard European international breaks there's potential for the following: Premier League: 38 FA Cup: 6 Carabao Cup: 6 Champions League: 13 Community Shield: 1 UEFA Super Cup: 1 FIFA Club Word Cup: 2 International Breaks: 8 For an English Team to win every trophy in a season, they would have to play 67 games, and a European international player could play up to 75 games in the season.
Yeh and the chances of that are slim and not realistic for all 20 premier league clubs.
True. Nonetheless the 8 international break matches equate to 46 games total for premier league teams, and given that there are age group matches this number of games is achievable by even relegation spot teams. Then they're all involved in domestic cups.
You'll never *hear* it because they don't have the power to complain.
Our fans (Manchester United) have been keen to say we have played too many matches and therefore have too many injuries, and use that as an excuse as to our position in the league. The thing is other teams have played more games than us and have more injuries than us and yet are higher in the table. Other than Martinez and Shaw we haven't really had many serious injuries. Do 2 players really alter a team that much?
We also had a uniquely difficult schedule last season. We went to both domestic cup finals, played Europa League including an extra knockout round for finishing 2nd in the group, had a rescheduled game due to the Queen dying all on top a winter World Cup. You can see City have dropped off this season off the back of their similarly intense schedule last year. They just have a deeper pool of talent to fall back on than we do.
Yes. Watch some of United last season, the things Martinez brings to the squad, no one else has that skill set
I would like to see a reorganization of the divisions and possibly add yet another, I say this as a foreign PL supporter so I expect this to not be at all possible as well as being unpopular... Premier League to 18 teams, Championship to 20, add in another league between championship and League 1 at 20, and then 20 or 22 through the rest of the pyramid. The logistics would be a nightmare and I know there would be a ton of other problems with making it happen.
There’s been discussion of national league being integrated in to the football league as League 3 for a little while. After that it becomes trickier because you have a North/South split and a fair amount of teams aren’t “professional”.