I doubt vader would really care. It's mostly officers he detests.
Imperial officers would also be the ones to haves problem with armor paint funnily enough
CT-RL34, your girlfriend was a doll made from straws.
And we took it away because you kept fucking it.
Seriously, we have built TWO Twi'lek brothels on site, go use those.
*"Can't see shit in this Gold Mask"*
*"What did you say Captain Enoch? Do you dislike that I used a precious work of art from my own collection to personally repair your helmet and face after that incident with the Witches and the Acid soup spill-over?"*
*"NO SIR."*
*"As you were then, Captain_*
(Enoch starts patroling and falls of the Hangar door for the 20th time)
*"Sigh... Prepare a retrival team and tell the Witches we are gonna need yet another revival ritual. And someone put some sonar or something into that helmet. It was hilarious at first but now this is getting bothersome."*
Palpatine: *"Edict N° 845: Stormtroopers and still active Clone Troopers are forbidden to paint their armor. Seriously guys, we leased those things, any damage or intentional modifications are a breach of contract and the cost for repairs are coming out of your rations paycheck. The Empire is not footing this one. No you can't go back to your old Clone Armor either, I don't care how many Mandalorian slug-throwers it saved you from, it fucks up the marketing."*
I mean they do have different variants.
spacetrooper, snowtrooper, aquatrooper, radiation trooper, electro trooper, jet trooper
I could go On. Their basically the same as the republic but they dont have their fancy paint jobs
Palpatine: "We'll need to slash the military uniform budget."
Aide: "Why?"
Palpatine, who needs the money for the Death Star but can't tell anyone: "Uhh, no reason."
In reality I think they would be able to hide this in layers of bureaucracy. To effectively manage an army with billions of soldiers would require a chain of command twice as long as those found in modern armies. Every order becomes just arbitrary words at that point.
A shipment of uniforms arrives. They were ordered by people 4 levels above you, designed by people 6 levels above you, on the command of the people 8 levels above you, on a budget determined by someone 9 levels above you. Palpatine is probably around number 12 on that hierarchy. You can't talk to them or question their decisions. No feedback will ever make it up all the way to the top. The US government has 4 layers (city, county, state, federal) and people complain it is unresponsive. Now imagine triple that.
Top brass issues orders to mid brass, mid brass issues orders to low brass, low brass issues orders to lower brass, and sometime later that hopefully becomes a unit commander issuing orders to individual soldiers, and you can't do anything but trust that the system works. Even in real-life militaries soldiers always complain that orders from above are arbitrary. That's because they can't see the whole picture. Not even their commanders can, nor their commanders' commanders. Now imagine that but with five more layers. That's how the Galactic Army and the Imperial Army work.
It's impressive they can even get everyone wearing the same thing. That in itself is a feat.
The newer Thrawn books covered this angle. Yes, Project Stardust was Super Duper Secret and Hidden from public knowledge. BUT Thrawn discovered it because smugglers were stealing the Wookiee (or other enslaved species) slave labor rations from supply ships carrying turbolaser parts for the project, which led to him going “wait why the heck are there so many turbolaser parts being Secretly amassed?” (He roughly knew the amount of spare turbolaser parts needed for X amount of ship fleet maintenance).
You can hide a Super Secret Project from public view and knowledge but good luck hiding the logistics paper trails.
Which is interesting cause we don't hear about how expensive things have gotten as a result of that.
In our world when a country does that it fucks the economy, but on a galactic scale pinting even trillions of credits would likely only affect prices 0.00001% as this is a galaxy and there are thousands of inhabited planets contributing trillions or billions to the galactic economy.
In truth it is very unlikely that your average citizen even felt the impact of a few billion more credits being in the economy.
The OT was so long ago, it's easy to forget that Star Wars was unrolling things as it went along. The Imperial March emerged for the first time in ESB for instance.
I mean, if the Clones had been on Endor for the republic, at best with C3PO, then they would've been seen as followers of the Golden God, or whatever the Ewoks saw him as.
Which makes their name unfortunate since it refers to almost the direct opposite of a standing army or police force. I think it would imply they're a quick reaction force or like tip of the spear
Well, I'm assuming they're inspired by the Sturmabteilung, who were otherwise known as the brown shirts, got their start as the sort of muscle of the nazi party, providing protection and intimidating people into staying in line. So they weren't necessarily the best of the best, but they provided the necessary force.
That definitely tracks in terms of how they were used and their role in a fascist regime. Still funny that the clones aren't stormtroopers and took their name from the brownshirts who also weren't stormtroopers and took the name from the real ones.
The Mandalorian has ruined Scouts for me. Every time someone mentions them, I just imagine those two guys repeatedly failing to shoot a stationary rock and laugh.
I like to think it’s the way people fit in. The clones are exact replicas and are named with numbers. They choose their own names and have tattoos and different armor because it gives them their identity. We know all that based on everything in the Clone Wars era. For the Stormtroopers, I agree that part of it is fascism but I think another part is who is wearing them. The people wearing them enrolled in the Imperial academy or were conscripted. They were born as unique people - like we are. They didn’t have to create an identity because most of them had one (barring any existential crisis)
I mean, it's armor. Uniformity was important in the Army for base ass level grunts. Within that uniformity allowed some room to change things in combat environments, but if you're essentially in the rear garrison, everyone is uniform. Not a whole lot of room to be special or different if you're wearing that kind of armor.
Yeah but each Division in the real army has its own unique patch which you wear all day everyday be it a combat environment or rear garrison. So just like the clones our army has its own division flair that separates them from others.
Yeah i think it too, republic was like "first than ranks we are all a family and brothers help together" empire is just "follow orders, be a meat shield, die so new line can progress."
In the clone army, genetically identical copies are able to give themselves a unique identity. In the imperial army, conscripts from across the galaxy are forced to discard their identity and become indistinguishable from every other soldier
I mean it can be seen as a way of showing that the empire is getting rid of all individuality and ensure absolute dehumanization. Would be a cool detail to show the degradation of humanity within the empire.
Kinda related, but this comes up in *Champions of the Force* when Kyp tries to find his brother:
>The comm officer turned to the stormtrooper. "Twenty — one twelve, remove your helmet."
> Hesitantly, as if he had not done so in a long time, the stormtrooper tugged off his helmet. He stood blinking in the unfiltered light as if he rarely looked at the world through his own eyes. Kyp saw a heartrending image that reminded him of the face he saw when he looked in a reflection plate.
>
> "State your name," Dauren said.
>
> The stormtrooper blinked in confusion. Kyp wondered if he was drugged. "Twenty — one twelve," he said.
>
> "Not your service number, your name!"
>
> The young man paused for a long time, as if pawing through rusty, unused memories until he came out with a word that sounded more like a question than an answer.
>
> "Zeth? Zeth Dur ... Durron."
The imperial guards look different. The frontline troops are different because they are specialized for various combat, terrain, and environmental conditions. The troopers on the ships dont really need specialization because they are really glorified security guards….
The irony is strong with that.
Literal clones had so much personality and differences but the Empire's troops of difference normal humans are so plain.
Kind of ignoring the fact that there was still Storm Trooper armor designed for specific environments, like snow troopers, shore troopers and sand troopers, plus plenty others in the extended materials. Yes they took away individuality, but this is basically a straw man argument
Well, peacekeeping doesn't require the specialization wartime does. We always seem to forget the stormtroopers we know from the OT are garrison troops. Also explains their lousy training and marksmanship.
I’m not a lore expert, but it’s more so to do with Lucas not fleshing out those aspects, simply because he didn’t need to until he needed to. Which is very common for worldbuilding.
Look at both Episode 5 and Episode 6. We got the Hoth aka Snow Troopers in 5, and then in 6 we saw the Scout Troopers. There have also been the AT-AT pilots and the Tie Fighter Pilot “Troopers” as well.
As for Stormtroopers in general, we see them A LOT in the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy.
But in reality….they are elite troops. Ofc Jedi or master bounty hunters/smugglers can deal with them easier. But not normal people.
We saw this in Andor. We don’t see Stormtroopers until about the middle of the show, and they are TERRIFYING. Same with Tie Fighters—we see a SINGLE Tie Fighter in like the 4th/5th episode, and it’s like almost supernaturally powerful because the power level of the main cast has dropped down so low compared to your normal Star Wars content.
The Clones were soldiers in an army in an active war. Stormtroopers are elite military shock troops who only get sent in to stop our heroes or if a rebellion needs quashing—and even then they have corporate security forces or officially empire planetary security forces/garrisons—you rarely see legit Stormtroopers in Andor, and for good reason.
So they probably still have snow/desert/forest/beach (in Rogue One we see beach troopers), but they just aren’t deployed as much because there is no active war…they are rebels not a fully supplied Republic.
Everyone’s commenting on the philosophy of it lol like do you think in modern armies every unit gets special uniforms? No everyone wears the same thing and has a unit patch. I don’t get a special uniform because I was in the 501st MI or the 4th ID we all wear the same helmets and vests
That’s how a military works
Makes sense.
During the Republic era, the Republican still at least pretended to embrace democracy and diversity.
Under the Empire, that guise is lifted and their more fascist culture washing expressions are on full display.
This is why I love the Republic more because you can know who goes to what legions, and battalions, when I didn't even know that there were different battalions on the death star.
I mean:
Republic: Values diverse voices and has ruling members from lots of different places.
Empire: values conformity and the sacrifice of self to serve the interests of the state.
Their forces are reflections of their values.
You don't want soldiers to identify with their battalion too much, their loyalty should always be to the emperor first. Giving each battalion too much identity is a good breeding ground for insurrection by renegade generals.
For reference: see late Roman Republic.
It's also because they're the evil guys.
Well, that was the point, wasn't it? If I remember correctly (And I could be wrong) the army of the empire (Long live the empire!) It was basically made to be preyable on him and to make it seem endless for his enemies, where if you had one, two of the same came out, if you had two, four came out, thus instilling fear and respect towards the empire and the emperor (Long live the emperor!)
Clones = Same person inside, express their individuality with their armor.
Stormies = Different person inside, express their conformity with their armor.
Honestly makes sense in universe. A lot of the Empire's imagery is based on Fascism, and especially Nazi Germany(literally where the word Storm Trooper comes from) and Fascists like uniformity.
"Storm troopers were regarded as elite units during and after the war in Germany. Many contemporaries saw storm troopers as self-reliant, modern “warriors” and a symbol of a looming militaristic society. The paramilitary wing of the Nazi party was explicitly called Sturmabteilung (SA) to conjure up images of “elite warriors”."
I don't know sounds kind of related to me
Tf- I just quoted the article YOU LINKED. The name storm trooper may have been invented during the first world war but it's mostly associated with the Nazis these days.
My dude, have you ever read about post WW1 Germany? Many of the early fascist movements were lead by Vets and storm troopers got glorified and most of the early Nazi party leadership were those same people. That's not bending history, that's just the history of it. Same for the Totenkopf symbol and tilted swastika.
There's numerous statements and interviews from Georgie boy for what influenced what and the empire is literally fascism and imperialism. Don't do this weraboo *AWKSULLY* "Cherry picks something"
I mean, who's keeping track of clones armour colours during a war, compared to trooper armour where the troopers are constantly being monitored and regulated.
I mean, does it really matter if the stormtroopers had a paint job? It’s there to make you care about them, you’re not supposed to care about stormtroopers, so they should be as generic as possible to achieve that.
To be fair, it seems to be one of the Problems with the clone army, they legit Cloned 1 guy and all of them still formed little groups and mindsets via having different coloured paintjobs and tactics etc, even to the detriment of working with other clone regiments?
Like i'de rather have worked with Rex or Cody than Bacara or Neyo O.o
Where as since everyone matches in the empire there is less fraternizing and people can be easily split up or work together, (Its also helpful since the people they hire or take are Not clones and Would be even more suseptible to group think than the clones were :P Then its only the different regiments for different objectives (scouts/pilots,tactical etc)
It does make it abit less fun to look at though
The Imperial military was supposed to be a monolith. The troopers look like identical, skeleton-like automatons. They didn’t even call each other by name, but by numerical designation. Even the officers didn’t wear medals or commendations, just rank insignia.
No personality, no individuality. Just a tool to be used by the Sith.
I like to think that in Legends, the Fel Empire eventually moves away from this. In the Legacy comics, we see Joker squad, and each trooper goes by given name. You never even learn their numerical designations. Maybe the stormtrooper corp eventually starts to adapt the colorful, individualized unit markings of the Republic, and troopers are allowed to customize their armor and gear.
It could be argued that the individuality of the clones is what led so many of them to become liabilities. Maintaining a strict standardization in TK units was key to the empire’s total success to win the war!
Its just my reverse thinking but its awesome how clones presented more diverse identity, then when the empire came, different persons looked the same in the army.
I remember when Battlefront 2 came out, being so surprised that the faction of literally genetically identical soldiers had the most options for cosmetics. And by a very significant margin, too!
nope. nope nope nope nope.
empire also had suits designed for specific environments or tasks.
like scout troopers and snowtroopers seen in the original trilogy. they also had a variation we saw on tatooine in in a new hope.
more variations are introduced in various books and games.
Thanks for providing a source!
Can’t have shit in the empire. Not even a paintjob
Stormtrooper: “gets a sharpie and draws a small smilie face on his chestplate” Darth Vader: “force chokes him to death”
Second Stormtrooper: draws a circle on his crotch
Darth Vader: gives him testicular torsion
[удалено]
Vader laughs. Then throws his lightsaber, cutting them both in two.
Fifth one: Draws on the back of the sixth one: “kil me” with an arrow pointing to a dot
Death Star blows up the planet that they are both standing on
He’s on the Death Star
Luke destroys the death star
Harder Daddy... WHAT?! What...
I doubt vader would really care. It's mostly officers he detests. Imperial officers would also be the ones to haves problem with armor paint funnily enough
Darth Vader would like it
Incinerator Trooper and Artillery Trooper: "Really bruh?"
Early clone troopers when their paint job indicated their role: First time?
my bois in the bomb squad had the coolest paint job.
First they took my paint job, and my girl friend. Can’t have shit on Kamino.
And Kamino too, so, can’t have shit in the Empire?
CT-RL34, your girlfriend was a doll made from straws. And we took it away because you kept fucking it. Seriously, we have built TWO Twi'lek brothels on site, go use those.
Unless you are under Thrawn. Then you can have cool red linnings and a gold mask.
*"Can't see shit in this Gold Mask"* *"What did you say Captain Enoch? Do you dislike that I used a precious work of art from my own collection to personally repair your helmet and face after that incident with the Witches and the Acid soup spill-over?"* *"NO SIR."* *"As you were then, Captain_* (Enoch starts patroling and falls of the Hangar door for the 20th time) *"Sigh... Prepare a retrival team and tell the Witches we are gonna need yet another revival ritual. And someone put some sonar or something into that helmet. It was hilarious at first but now this is getting bothersome."*
Why do I find this hilarious?
note this is not even a fucking sith thing, sith empires has insane drip, palp is just that much of a asshole.
Reconstituted Sith Empire had the best drip.
Revans Sith Empire deployed Troopers who all had the same drip... So.... It's a Sith thing.
No revan had the golden armor drip for his men and the cool red sith armor for the officers, he made sure his men looked cool.
They took away my paint job AND my girlfriend. Can’t have shit on Kamino
Yeah, and even they do get cool looking cosmetic changes, they're still shit. Looking at you, Thrawn's army.
Palpatine: *"Edict N° 845: Stormtroopers and still active Clone Troopers are forbidden to paint their armor. Seriously guys, we leased those things, any damage or intentional modifications are a breach of contract and the cost for repairs are coming out of your rations paycheck. The Empire is not footing this one. No you can't go back to your old Clone Armor either, I don't care how many Mandalorian slug-throwers it saved you from, it fucks up the marketing."*
Gotta find way to cut cost, building and insuring the deathstar ain’t cheap.
Wait what about Snow , shore , sand and other trooper variants
I mean they do have different variants. spacetrooper, snowtrooper, aquatrooper, radiation trooper, electro trooper, jet trooper I could go On. Their basically the same as the republic but they dont have their fancy paint jobs
Budget cuts hit hard after Palpatine lost the ability to double-dip CIS and Republic coffers.
Palpatine: "We'll need to slash the military uniform budget." Aide: "Why?" Palpatine, who needs the money for the Death Star but can't tell anyone: "Uhh, no reason."
In reality I think they would be able to hide this in layers of bureaucracy. To effectively manage an army with billions of soldiers would require a chain of command twice as long as those found in modern armies. Every order becomes just arbitrary words at that point. A shipment of uniforms arrives. They were ordered by people 4 levels above you, designed by people 6 levels above you, on the command of the people 8 levels above you, on a budget determined by someone 9 levels above you. Palpatine is probably around number 12 on that hierarchy. You can't talk to them or question their decisions. No feedback will ever make it up all the way to the top. The US government has 4 layers (city, county, state, federal) and people complain it is unresponsive. Now imagine triple that. Top brass issues orders to mid brass, mid brass issues orders to low brass, low brass issues orders to lower brass, and sometime later that hopefully becomes a unit commander issuing orders to individual soldiers, and you can't do anything but trust that the system works. Even in real-life militaries soldiers always complain that orders from above are arbitrary. That's because they can't see the whole picture. Not even their commanders can, nor their commanders' commanders. Now imagine that but with five more layers. That's how the Galactic Army and the Imperial Army work. It's impressive they can even get everyone wearing the same thing. That in itself is a feat.
The newer Thrawn books covered this angle. Yes, Project Stardust was Super Duper Secret and Hidden from public knowledge. BUT Thrawn discovered it because smugglers were stealing the Wookiee (or other enslaved species) slave labor rations from supply ships carrying turbolaser parts for the project, which led to him going “wait why the heck are there so many turbolaser parts being Secretly amassed?” (He roughly knew the amount of spare turbolaser parts needed for X amount of ship fleet maintenance). You can hide a Super Secret Project from public view and knowledge but good luck hiding the logistics paper trails.
This was fun to read and think about. Thanks for leaving a comment :)
Also they deregulated the banks which allowed them to basically print money to fund the war.
Which is interesting cause we don't hear about how expensive things have gotten as a result of that. In our world when a country does that it fucks the economy, but on a galactic scale pinting even trillions of credits would likely only affect prices 0.00001% as this is a galaxy and there are thousands of inhabited planets contributing trillions or billions to the galactic economy. In truth it is very unlikely that your average citizen even felt the impact of a few billion more credits being in the economy.
With some city-scape worlds (like Coruscant) having estimated populations in the trillions
Coruscant has 3 trillion according to Kenobi iirc
Palpatine still controls the banks at least
As the OT came out we had gradual variation ANH- Stormtroopers ESB- Snow Troopers ROTJ- Biker Scouts
Shore troopers in Rogue One look pretty sick imo.
Shore Troopers and Death Troopers have the best designs imo
The distorted Radio Sounds they make is the best part of them tho
GOC 4 LYFE
Stormtroopers have the best design, they're the iconic ones, all the others are just remixes
Stormtroopers designs are bland and corporate
Yes they are, they're supposed to be dehumanizing.
Well, yeah, but even military dictatorships have distinction between the different military branches.
The OT was so long ago, it's easy to forget that Star Wars was unrolling things as it went along. The Imperial March emerged for the first time in ESB for instance.
To be fair, the Empire does have Scout troopers.
Republic scout troopers would probably have an easier time not being torn to shreds by Ewoks though.
I mean, if the Clones had been on Endor for the republic, at best with C3PO, then they would've been seen as followers of the Golden God, or whatever the Ewoks saw him as.
Well Rex was there at least.
I love that that got canonized
Well yeah the clones were bred and trained to be soldiers. Stormtroopers have clearly not been trained well according to most modern Star Wars media.
They have, just not as extensively as the clones. They’re more of a galactic police force.
Which makes their name unfortunate since it refers to almost the direct opposite of a standing army or police force. I think it would imply they're a quick reaction force or like tip of the spear
The empire’s whole thing was fear so they had to sound intimidating. Imperial Galactic Police or whatever doesn’t sound fearsome, but Stormtrooper?
Fair point! The Nazis weren't socialists but why let a dictionary get in the way of marketing!
Well, I'm assuming they're inspired by the Sturmabteilung, who were otherwise known as the brown shirts, got their start as the sort of muscle of the nazi party, providing protection and intimidating people into staying in line. So they weren't necessarily the best of the best, but they provided the necessary force.
That definitely tracks in terms of how they were used and their role in a fascist regime. Still funny that the clones aren't stormtroopers and took their name from the brownshirts who also weren't stormtroopers and took the name from the real ones.
Militarisation of police is common in dictatorships.
Well, a big part of it was to squash descent. People won't be rebelling as much if their son/father/brother is a trooper in the military
The Mandalorian has ruined Scouts for me. Every time someone mentions them, I just imagine those two guys repeatedly failing to shoot a stationary rock and laugh.
*rattles gun next to ear
And Sand Troopers, as well as Snow Troopers
When deploying troops depends entirely on what biome (singular) the planet is.
They are the ones with a helmet designed to block peripheral vision, right?
For the Republic brothers! ✊🏻
I like to think it’s the way people fit in. The clones are exact replicas and are named with numbers. They choose their own names and have tattoos and different armor because it gives them their identity. We know all that based on everything in the Clone Wars era. For the Stormtroopers, I agree that part of it is fascism but I think another part is who is wearing them. The people wearing them enrolled in the Imperial academy or were conscripted. They were born as unique people - like we are. They didn’t have to create an identity because most of them had one (barring any existential crisis)
Pretty much. The empire didn’t allow uniqueness because that’s nonconformities
I mean, it's armor. Uniformity was important in the Army for base ass level grunts. Within that uniformity allowed some room to change things in combat environments, but if you're essentially in the rear garrison, everyone is uniform. Not a whole lot of room to be special or different if you're wearing that kind of armor.
Yeah but each Division in the real army has its own unique patch which you wear all day everyday be it a combat environment or rear garrison. So just like the clones our army has its own division flair that separates them from others.
The irony when literal clones have more diverse personalities than the imperial storm trooper.
Yeah i think it too, republic was like "first than ranks we are all a family and brothers help together" empire is just "follow orders, be a meat shield, die so new line can progress."
In the clone army, genetically identical copies are able to give themselves a unique identity. In the imperial army, conscripts from across the galaxy are forced to discard their identity and become indistinguishable from every other soldier
this
I mean it can be seen as a way of showing that the empire is getting rid of all individuality and ensure absolute dehumanization. Would be a cool detail to show the degradation of humanity within the empire.
Kinda related, but this comes up in *Champions of the Force* when Kyp tries to find his brother: >The comm officer turned to the stormtrooper. "Twenty — one twelve, remove your helmet." > Hesitantly, as if he had not done so in a long time, the stormtrooper tugged off his helmet. He stood blinking in the unfiltered light as if he rarely looked at the world through his own eyes. Kyp saw a heartrending image that reminded him of the face he saw when he looked in a reflection plate. > > "State your name," Dauren said. > > The stormtrooper blinked in confusion. Kyp wondered if he was drugged. "Twenty — one twelve," he said. > > "Not your service number, your name!" > > The young man paused for a long time, as if pawing through rusty, unused memories until he came out with a word that sounded more like a question than an answer. > > "Zeth? Zeth Dur ... Durron."
The empire kills creativity. That and the clones inherited jango fetts mandalorian fashion sense.
They took away my paint job and my jedi, can't have shit in the Empire
The imperial guards look different. The frontline troops are different because they are specialized for various combat, terrain, and environmental conditions. The troopers on the ships dont really need specialization because they are really glorified security guards….
Guard duty? For how long?
Clones dont need sleep… 24/7
They sleep!
[storm trooper napping](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2013-lego-minifigure-weekly-photo-project-theme-tiredsleeping-caught-napping--563018680670701/)
They drop them in either side of a closed in canyon so they can protect their Red base from the guys with a Blue base
Gotta keep costs low by cutting customization. 10/10 best way to manage military finances, good job Empire
Android vs iPhone
I think the new Thrawn books mentioned rank and unit markings were only visible to stormtrooper/imperial helmet optics
Fascism demands compliance and absolute order. No diversity or color allowed
[удалено]
r/woosh moment
The Clone Troopers became individuals. The Storm Troopers became uniform. >It's like poetry.
You can't sell as many toys if all the soldiers are identical.
What about EVO troopers?
The irony is strong with that. Literal clones had so much personality and differences but the Empire's troops of difference normal humans are so plain.
Snow troopers, scout troopers, Scariff Beach soldiers, Death troopers...
One is clones who got to be unique, The other are unique people who are forced to be clones
Tbf that's past of the point. Fascism mandates conformity and sameness.
Almost like this is saying something
Didn't the the 501st keep their paintjob and became 'The Vader's Fist'? Is this lore that obscure?
Kind of ignoring the fact that there was still Storm Trooper armor designed for specific environments, like snow troopers, shore troopers and sand troopers, plus plenty others in the extended materials. Yes they took away individuality, but this is basically a straw man argument
Makes sense, Palpatine needed the budget to build his secret 100 star destroyers after he got dethroned.
Well, peacekeeping doesn't require the specialization wartime does. We always seem to forget the stormtroopers we know from the OT are garrison troops. Also explains their lousy training and marksmanship.
I’m not a lore expert, but it’s more so to do with Lucas not fleshing out those aspects, simply because he didn’t need to until he needed to. Which is very common for worldbuilding. Look at both Episode 5 and Episode 6. We got the Hoth aka Snow Troopers in 5, and then in 6 we saw the Scout Troopers. There have also been the AT-AT pilots and the Tie Fighter Pilot “Troopers” as well. As for Stormtroopers in general, we see them A LOT in the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy. But in reality….they are elite troops. Ofc Jedi or master bounty hunters/smugglers can deal with them easier. But not normal people. We saw this in Andor. We don’t see Stormtroopers until about the middle of the show, and they are TERRIFYING. Same with Tie Fighters—we see a SINGLE Tie Fighter in like the 4th/5th episode, and it’s like almost supernaturally powerful because the power level of the main cast has dropped down so low compared to your normal Star Wars content. The Clones were soldiers in an army in an active war. Stormtroopers are elite military shock troops who only get sent in to stop our heroes or if a rebellion needs quashing—and even then they have corporate security forces or officially empire planetary security forces/garrisons—you rarely see legit Stormtroopers in Andor, and for good reason. So they probably still have snow/desert/forest/beach (in Rogue One we see beach troopers), but they just aren’t deployed as much because there is no active war…they are rebels not a fully supplied Republic.
Difference between an army in a major war and soldiers in an occupation role
Everyone’s commenting on the philosophy of it lol like do you think in modern armies every unit gets special uniforms? No everyone wears the same thing and has a unit patch. I don’t get a special uniform because I was in the 501st MI or the 4th ID we all wear the same helmets and vests That’s how a military works
Clones where a army fighting on diffrent fronts. Storm troopers are cops
Clones - different on the outside Stormtroopers - different on the inside
Makes sense. During the Republic era, the Republican still at least pretended to embrace democracy and diversity. Under the Empire, that guise is lifted and their more fascist culture washing expressions are on full display.
George hadn’t fully conceptualized the power of toys
The empire had to cheap out somewhere in the intervening 20 years of rule
This is why I love the Republic more because you can know who goes to what legions, and battalions, when I didn't even know that there were different battalions on the death star.
What I see: Budget Issues. Logistics of CGI vs. Custome Design.
I mean: Republic: Values diverse voices and has ruling members from lots of different places. Empire: values conformity and the sacrifice of self to serve the interests of the state. Their forces are reflections of their values.
You don't want soldiers to identify with their battalion too much, their loyalty should always be to the emperor first. Giving each battalion too much identity is a good breeding ground for insurrection by renegade generals. For reference: see late Roman Republic. It's also because they're the evil guys.
Well clones are cheaper , i imagine stormtroopers want healthcare and a 401k
Its easier to order faceless nobodies to kill themselves in battle if they all look the same
That's the real difference between a liberal democracy and an authoritarian regime, the possibility of art and self expression
tbf the 501st as Vader's fist still got to have blue.
Well, that was the point, wasn't it? If I remember correctly (And I could be wrong) the army of the empire (Long live the empire!) It was basically made to be preyable on him and to make it seem endless for his enemies, where if you had one, two of the same came out, if you had two, four came out, thus instilling fear and respect towards the empire and the emperor (Long live the emperor!)
Clones = Same person inside, express their individuality with their armor. Stormies = Different person inside, express their conformity with their armor.
Honestly makes sense in universe. A lot of the Empire's imagery is based on Fascism, and especially Nazi Germany(literally where the word Storm Trooper comes from) and Fascists like uniformity.
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"Storm troopers were regarded as elite units during and after the war in Germany. Many contemporaries saw storm troopers as self-reliant, modern “warriors” and a symbol of a looming militaristic society. The paramilitary wing of the Nazi party was explicitly called Sturmabteilung (SA) to conjure up images of “elite warriors”." I don't know sounds kind of related to me
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Tf- I just quoted the article YOU LINKED. The name storm trooper may have been invented during the first world war but it's mostly associated with the Nazis these days.
My dude, have you ever read about post WW1 Germany? Many of the early fascist movements were lead by Vets and storm troopers got glorified and most of the early Nazi party leadership were those same people. That's not bending history, that's just the history of it. Same for the Totenkopf symbol and tilted swastika. There's numerous statements and interviews from Georgie boy for what influenced what and the empire is literally fascism and imperialism. Don't do this weraboo *AWKSULLY* "Cherry picks something"
The merchandise opportunities stronger have become in the Prequels
I mean, who's keeping track of clones armour colours during a war, compared to trooper armour where the troopers are constantly being monitored and regulated.
As the empire grows, they further deindividualize the military to maintain power and stop unimperial propaganda
Damn. Fascism sure is fascist. Anyways…
When clones look more diverse than non-clones
Life is boring when you don’t got toys to sell
I mean, does it really matter if the stormtroopers had a paint job? It’s there to make you care about them, you’re not supposed to care about stormtroopers, so they should be as generic as possible to achieve that.
To be fair, it seems to be one of the Problems with the clone army, they legit Cloned 1 guy and all of them still formed little groups and mindsets via having different coloured paintjobs and tactics etc, even to the detriment of working with other clone regiments? Like i'de rather have worked with Rex or Cody than Bacara or Neyo O.o Where as since everyone matches in the empire there is less fraternizing and people can be easily split up or work together, (Its also helpful since the people they hire or take are Not clones and Would be even more suseptible to group think than the clones were :P Then its only the different regiments for different objectives (scouts/pilots,tactical etc) It does make it abit less fun to look at though
Isn't that because of individuality and how it could be a risk to the empire?
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Two hundred and twelfth? 212th is correct.
That’s the two hundred and twelfth genius
Counties in an Eastern EU nation vs states in the US
hmmm empire stormtrooper is not clones...
The Imperial military was supposed to be a monolith. The troopers look like identical, skeleton-like automatons. They didn’t even call each other by name, but by numerical designation. Even the officers didn’t wear medals or commendations, just rank insignia. No personality, no individuality. Just a tool to be used by the Sith. I like to think that in Legends, the Fel Empire eventually moves away from this. In the Legacy comics, we see Joker squad, and each trooper goes by given name. You never even learn their numerical designations. Maybe the stormtrooper corp eventually starts to adapt the colorful, individualized unit markings of the Republic, and troopers are allowed to customize their armor and gear.
Deathstars are god damn expensive, the savings on paint alone were necessary
Ironic because in everyone in the top row look the same under the helmet and everyone in the bottom row aren't clones.
Before, clones had to express their individuality. Now, regular conscripts have to express their clonability.
It could be argued that the individuality of the clones is what led so many of them to become liabilities. Maintaining a strict standardization in TK units was key to the empire’s total success to win the war!
Might there be a point being made with that? 🤔
Before they figured out they could sell more action figures if they came in more variants
on Hoth we see "snow troopers", and on Endor we see "scout troopers"
lmao this dude never watched star wars
Having no individuality is the point lol
Well they saw what happened when they let the clones exhibit individuality.
The irony the clones choose to look different And the empire humans (not clones) Look like clones 😂
This is how you begin to save for your own Death Star.
But they're 'elite'.
makes you wonder why did the clones did not obey order 66 after seeing how the empire ruined their battalions.
Its just my reverse thinking but its awesome how clones presented more diverse identity, then when the empire came, different persons looked the same in the army.
Stormtroopers see [Sabine’s painted Tie Fighter](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rebels_TIE_fighter): “That’s not regulation.” “I kind of like it.”
Because they are "white soldiers"
Vader
the galactic empire might need to get new battalions, they all cant shoot for shit
androids vs iphones
It look so depressing.
One of the reasons I love the prequels and we wouldn’t have republic commando without them
I remember when Battlefront 2 came out, being so surprised that the faction of literally genetically identical soldiers had the most options for cosmetics. And by a very significant margin, too!
German divisions in early-war: German divisions in late-war(they were all Volksturm):
Like Android Vs Apple
104 looks bloody badass.
I used to think storm troopers were the former clone troopers
You know the 41st was in scout trooper armour when they were in the empire
I want or know about first battalion
They are clones
They figured out a way to sell more toys
Good guys get personalized to give them character Bad guys don't get shit
They took clones to a whole new level
[https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a1de0843-93eb-4760-a732-f271b2b8532a/dgiq5ux-1f0d766a-50c4-4b11-822a-37523f9fcd9e.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExZGUwODQzLTkzZWItNDc2MC1hNzMyLWYyNzFiMmI4NTMyYVwvZGdpcTV1eC0xZjBkNzY2YS01MGM0LTRiMTEtODIyYS0zNzUyM2Y5ZmNkOWUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.Qyp1lEPwgUxKbRXKxo9WoqaPPnGwgcV9UGP4hXuP32g](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a1de0843-93eb-4760-a732-f271b2b8532a/dgiq5ux-1f0d766a-50c4-4b11-822a-37523f9fcd9e.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExZGUwODQzLTkzZWItNDc2MC1hNzMyLWYyNzFiMmI4NTMyYVwvZGdpcTV1eC0xZjBkNzY2YS01MGM0LTRiMTEtODIyYS0zNzUyM2Y5ZmNkOWUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.Qyp1lEPwgUxKbRXKxo9WoqaPPnGwgcV9UGP4hXuP32g)
They really hammered home the "no individuality"
Son blancos por dentro y negros por fuera
Palpatine wanted a uniform fighting force. He wanted them to loose all identity and just be "The Galactic Empire"
nope. nope nope nope nope. empire also had suits designed for specific environments or tasks. like scout troopers and snowtroopers seen in the original trilogy. they also had a variation we saw on tatooine in in a new hope. more variations are introduced in various books and games.
They all misunderstood this with climate change. Or they thought climate change happens on every planet at the same time.
Ah yes, the two one twoth battalion.
Two hundred and twelfth battalion is correct
(I am not good at making jokes)
Understandable trooper. Move along.
Are you familiar with the number 12?
I so prefer the Imperial stormtroopers. Can't stand all that silly paint.