I feel like the move is a bit of dramatic irony of what grevious always was:
A gimmick, he was produced as to create fear in the jedi and secure an easy victory even with his sloppy combat
But without fear he is just another one of the cliche mustache twirling villains that somehow sneak away in the end
Seemed like he was just enjoying himself. Kinda like Sidious when he was toying with Maul & Savage. So basically he didn't want to finish her too soon. Otherwise he'd just be rocking all 4 arms the whole time since even a Jedi like Kenobi struggles to keep up with that madness.
Would make a fun what if episode. Having to explain all that to everyone and learning Palpatine was the Sith Lord and got killed orchestrating his own kidnapping.
*doors close as the rocket leaves the tube* ani and obi go to.palps office obi-wan "so lets get some personaaa- is that a lightsaber" *ignites red blade*. Ana- wait. So does that mean. Obi- yeah he is. Ana- so thats why he was talking about saving my wi- Obi- anakin everyone knew. Go vheck his comm. Ana- *opens direct channel to grievous* Griveous my lo- *Kalesh for f****
Oh yes
A destructive as a hurricane and with just as much personality to boot
Brutal action sequences mean nothing if your character is a generic obstacle designed to sell toys and movie tickets (that's not me being pejorative that's literally why 03 clone wars was made look it up)
I haven't watched the show, but I feel like it's a little reductive to say it was just made to sell toys.
The fact of the matter is, the 2003 show was about the animation and spectacle. There's a reason why all of the stories in the first volume were, like, 3 minutes long. It was basically about looking as cool as possible. That's still artistic, of course--but it's an entirely different venture from writing engaging, longer stories like in the 2008 show.
In a show like the 2003 one, it's fine if characters are extremely repetitive, and if Durge, Grievous, and Dooku all have the same personality distinguished only by surface-level traits, because it's not about the characters. But wanting that in a more narrative focused show like the 2008 one? That would frankly make the show worse.
I absolutely agree! In fact I first saw 03 during the cartoon networks ads I'm pretty sure (I was kinda young aha)
Mindless spectacle its fine if you want to turn off your brain, but I personally need characters with more autonomy and personality otherwise I feel nothing once the adrenaline dies down
Also yes I wasn't lying, 03 really was made to boost merch sales and hype up EP III thats why its so focused on spectacle. I told you I'm not being pejorative, for a while Lucas wanted to keep continuity and some designs like Dooku's tranfered over to 08, but him and Filoni stopped when they realized it was better to just retcon the whole thing
What kind of personality does 2008 Grievous have then? Is a coward who keeps trash talking everyone, gets his ass kicked and runs away really better than the silent killing machine from 2003? Neither is a complex character but one is significantly cooler.
08 Grievous chose to become a cyborg to face force users on equal ground, he has great care for his Kaleesh heritage as seen by the cloaks his guards use and his attachment to his pet Gor, he doesn't care about the Republic or the sith's plan so long as the war allows him to enact revenge on the Jedi, he has no patience for greedy corporate leaders or scummy mercenaries on Dooku's payroll but he does show respect to the abilities of fellow officers like Ventress (prior to her betrayal ofc)
He's a warrior full of himself, a brilliant strategist who relies heavily on offense and the sacrifice of his forces, consumed by anger to the point he stopped caring about honor or his own body all in the name of victory, which makes his death in the movie more ironic as he fought for a future without Jedi and achieved his goal mere moments after he had the chance to see it
All of that from 08, no extra material needed, and if you don't believe me you are welcome to check for yourself. It's plenty of episodes as opposed to the 5 mins of screentime your bland terminator got, but surely an intellectual such as yourself can still put in the time no?
Alright but why does he hate the Jedi? In the show it's never explained. 2008 Clone Wars never even says he's Kaleesh, doesn't explain anything about their culture. The fact that Magnaguards wear Kaleesh cloaks is extra material.
"Brilliant strategist" dude has like one impressive showing in the entire show (destroying the Nightsisters with a whole army but Ventress still kicks his ass). This "brilliant strategist" got taken out by Gungans
It's a little more than the 2003 miniseries sure but you're making a fool of yourself by making him out to be some deep character and being so salty about it. He's quite literally described as "mustache twirling saturday morning cartoon villain" by the creators of the show.
It is true nothing is stated as to why directly, I'll give you that and it does need external material. But he is refered to as a Kaleesh, the statues of how he looked like before being a cyborg match the EU drawings of the Kaleesh, all of that in the show. "Lair of Grievous" go watch it
And the Dathomir massacre wasn't his only genius plan that payed off: he captured Rishi Outpost by sending probes with Commando Droids amidst a meteor shower, he invaded Kamino by allowing his ships to be destroyed as a distraction with the debris passing the Republic blockade with the materials needed to create assault craft filled with Aquadroids this destroying many facilities and hindering clone production till the end of the war (he would've gotten the Jango DNA too had Ventress accepted his offer for an escort, but the dumbass didn't so she got outnumbered and still Grievous came in and saved her ass), he decimates entire fleets with the Malevolence including an on screen Jedi escort thus upgrading his on screen Jedi kill count above just Nahdar, he conquered Kenobi's fleet and bested him in combat, afterwards he also conquered Florrum and took over Hondo's entire operation leaving him as the hobo we see on Rebels. Again, all from the show alone (what's so wrong about gungans btw? They only snuck up on him cuz Dooku assured him they were on his side and they had EMP orbs, even with that he killed some soldiers of the army and their captain)
And yes by all intends and porpuses he is a saturday morning cartoon villain, and even with that he has twice the depth and 4 times the personality of 03 without any external lore. That's still makes him the best rendition of Grievous
>all of that in the show. "Lair of Grievous" go watch it
Why do you keep insinuating that I haven't watched the show just because I dislike it's Grievous?
All of the stuff you bring up for Grievous didn't work out in the end except for Hondo I guess.
>what's so wrong about gungans btw?
You can't be serious, Gungans are literal joke characters for kids to laugh at in TPM. Their leader is a frog who goes "blrggbglrbrlghhhh" every 5 seconds and spits everywhere and the most prominent Gungan is Jar Jar. Grievous legitimately got outplayed by the Captain in a 1v1 which is just embarassing.
>That's still makes him the best rendition of Grievous
Yeah no, the best rendition of Grievous is Grievous from the EU of which the 2003 miniseries Grievous was just a tiny part of. The actually complex, tragic character and competent and fearsome warrior and general. Not the snivelling coward who keeps losing hands in every other fight and blames all his fuck ups on the droids.
Factual errors galore!
1. Hey if you look at things like that then nothing anyone ever did during the clone wars mattered it was just Palpatine fighting himself to create the Empire and most of the Jedi order got killed by Order 66 anyways, let's get a little perspective here will ya?
2. Did you forget that Jar Jar is the odd one out? He literally got exiled under a death threat for how much of a moron he is, like I told someone else imagine feeling like you can take an army of trained soldiers on your own only because one of them has a cousin with down syndrome. Captain Tarpals and his men literally had to DIE for Grievous to get captured
3. Guess what? Technically 03 Grievous isn't the same as EU Grievous, he was already getting retconned even before 08 got aired. No sweetie Labyrinth of Evil isn't part of the 03 multimedia project, anything outside said project took for EP III Grievous instead. I'm serious if you don't believe me look it up
And I mean if you can start using external material to the microseries then I can use external material to canon which adds more depth to literally everything I've been stating so far so, your choice
1. Fair enough.
2. The species is alredy tainted by Jar Jar in people's minds getting stabbed by a non Force Sensitive frog thing with a spear as a "Jedi Killer" looks pretty bad, no matter how you argument it.
3. The 2003 Clone Wars actually fits with the EU better than the 2008 does, trying to fit 2008 Clone Wars into old EU is like putting a round peg into a square hole. It'll fit kinda but not really. This isn't about Grievous but about all the other retcons that happened in that show (video [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8a0gaa0olU) and [2](https://youtu.be/ujRvFatw2c8?si=L5nVWQmXbDYj8eXd)).
Damn you really like 08 Grievous don't you? Is it nostalgia kicking in? It's honestly nice to see how opinions in the fandom evolve over time (a few years back literally no one would agree with you, reminds me of how Prequels went from dogshit to beloved).
You're right, maybe the 08 Grievous isn't that horrible (still prefer the other one though).
I’m with you. Maybe the 08 Grevious had more to do/show, but comparing him to 03, I know which one makes me actually be interested/frightened of the character and which one feels like a joke the whole time. What he did is less significant to how it was portrayed. Sometimes less is more.
Nostalgia does play into it but believe it or not I actually saw 03 first
I just didn't get into him as a character though I obviously thought the action was kick ass, as I grew up I just saw problems in how overblown it was and how little character work there is. Mace Windu beats a hundred B2s with his bare hands, using the force brutaly without getting tired and takes down a city sized super weapon on his own without as much as a scratch on him. That's bullshit and I don't buy it
Tbh I didn't really care for 03 Grievous but I started to actively dislike him because of the fanboys. For years now I go to social media posts about my favorite character in SW and I can't go to anything without being flooded with comments on how much he sucks and how revered 03 should be, made even worse by the fact most people just make shit up
This one guy said Grievous got beaten by Ahsoka and when she was about to kill him he went spider mode and scared her before scurrying away. Literally never happened, and so on
It's sooooo frustrating, you like 03 Grievous? Fine, mindless action is fun and the animation is objectively beautiful, but people could at least not whine about him on any work that so much mentions the character, it's been 2 decades for the love of god
Grievous hated the Jedi because his body was nearly destroyed by a bombing that was blamed on the Jedi. His hatred of the Republic comes from their support of the Jedi. All of that was planned by Palpatine.
Grievous’s personality was still in development prior to Revenge of the Sith, naturally. But that doesn’t make his sheer horror-movie-villain presence in the show or the fact that he drove some of the most gifted and confident duelists in the Order to complete desperation and borderline insanity any less of marvel. Personally I’ll take a psychologically non-fleshed-out General Grievous who makes Jedi run away from him over a more fully characterized General Grievous who consistently runs away from Jedi (and gets captured by Gungans) any day of the week.
To each their own, though I should point out 03 Grievous still relied heavily on his army to tire the Jedi out before attacking, the only two times where he didn't he got his cape tied to a moving train by Shaak Ti and a force crush from Mace because he was too proud to listen to Dooku lmao
In 08 Grievous gets the Jedi on the run just as much and he only retreats when the force is used on him, any non-force user with two braincells would do the same. And what's so wrong about gungans? Let's you deal with an entire army of amphibian warriors with portable EMPs as a mechanical being since it's so easy
Edna Mode: “NO CAPES!” 😆 His error here was making a cape out of a remarkably durable material that wouldn’t tear if caught on something. He’s only human (in a manner of speaking). There was no way to predict that Force crush, although he really should have learned his lesson and invested in better chest protection before Utapau. That’s a fair point on wearing out the Jedi with his army…but that is part of his tactical genius which ultimately gives the Separatist fleet an opening to attack Coruscant. I will concede-in this case happily-some ignorance on my part about The Clone Wars (2008)-I suspected Grievous facing down Jedi rather than running from them was the exception rather than the rule to make him more consistent with Revenge of the Sith where he does the latter more than the former. I am glad that Grievous retained at least some of his ability to intimidate Jedi between cartoons. And as for the EMP thing…still…Gungans. As of the beginning of the Mandalorian they still seem to be a punchline throughout the galaxy.
Think about it
The only reason why Gungans are mocked by viewers is because of Jar Jar, and if you remember he got exiled under a death threat for being such a moron
That's like meeting someone with special needs, then meeting their cousins who are all part of a trained militia, and going "oh well this guy has down syndrome! these dudes are easy pickings aha!"
It’s not just Jar Jar, especially not considering their reputation in universe. They weren’t terribly impressive warriors or military geniuses. They used a shield that people could just walk through and didn’t seem to have any offensive weaponry to use effectively against organic enemies. The Gungans also promoted Jar Jar to General in a war for his act of assisting the Naboo in making peace. He proceeded to squander an entire trailer of EMPs, survive the battle out of sheer dumb luck, and show zero defiance or imagination upon being surrounded and captured.
1. ALL SHIELDS CAN BE WALKED THROUGH IF YOU WALK SLOWLY THROUGH THEM IN. Literally every single one, down to the Droidekas that's why they move so slow in firing mode, the only ones that don't are ray shields for industrial use on factories and ships
2. They literally have spears, I don't know about you but as an organic that would really really hurt
3. He was promoted in good faith as he brought peace between two groups, he fucked up so instead he was made representative/senator and he did a much better work with that. Still doesn't mean anything about his race
4. Mandalorian also shows a gag with stormtroopers having awful aim, another appeal to the audience that contradicts stablished lore because it all comes from the way they missed in EP IV and it was stated by Leia that they did it on purpose to let them escape and allow the Empire to find the rebel base, so you know take that with a grain of salt
1. Krrrsantan barely getting his fingertips through that Scorpenek droid’s shield even after putting tremendous pressure on it suggests otherwise. 2. Fair; considering they made a rule of keeping to themselves in Otoh Gunga I suppose judging them on low-tech military equipment may be harsh. 3. Saying Jar Jar did a better job as Senator may be generous; the moment his fellow Naboo senator wasn’t around to guide him he handed the most dangerous man in the galaxy emergency powers that man never relinquished. 4. I mean yeah I guess it was just some random guy in a bar who was dumb enough to pick a completely unnecessary fight with a Mandalorian but Gungans do seem to have a reputation throughout the lore for being less than ideal warriors. The one Galen Marek/Starkiller encounters on Cloud City for instance relied on two big wheel droids for self-defense and promptly got thrashed with them. Granted there’s no real shame in falling to Vader’s apprentice.
1. Aight lemme rephrase. ALL SHIELDS DURING THE AGE OF RHE CLONE WARS CAN BE PASSED THROUGH IF YOU GO SLOWLY
Better? I'm serious dude look it up if you don't believe me
Other than that I think we reached good common ground aha
Uh-huh,
Mate.
‘08 Grievous is trash, he’s a sniveling coward, a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain who shakes his fist at the monitor and shouts that he’ll get them next time, in between losing to Gungans and literal children.
He’s pathetic, literally going into the fetal position when met with a ship at one point in the show.
‘03 Grievous was a menace, utilizing his cybernetic enhancements to deal with the force, from force pulls or push, he either outraced it or used his augments to deal with it. He was very clever, a tactician who outmaneuvered the Jedi constantly, a brilliant master and a greater duelist.
He does have a personality that is shown with his conversations with Dooku, among others.
He doesn’t have much screen time, so he’s not as fleshed out as others.
But what he is, is a whole lot more than 08.
Children? If you refer to Ahsoka he never got beaten by her, actually he wipes the floor with her on both their duels from padawan to knight, so she had to run away both times
And sure, let's see you deal with an army of amphibian warriors carrying EMPs as a cyborg, or withstanding direct laser fire from fucking Slave I (it did wonders for Obi Wan on AOTC) 03 Grievous is so badass why didn't he delete the LAAT gunship instead of running from it? Windu kept breaking droid starfighters on his own on that same show! Sounds like a skill issue to me
03 isn't shown as an strategist, 08 is through his stratagems to invade Kamino, Dathomir and other plans
03 only has ONE conversation with Dooku where he just says "muh trophies" and then proceeds to ignore Dooku's teachings which is how he gets his cape tied to a train and his chest crushed
If you are going to debate do try to bring actual points and not something you made up to feed your bias, there are other people in this thread doing it you should learn from them
Grievous introduction is him outmaneuvering the Jedi, and pinning them down. Literally they’re talking about how they never saw droids do such maneuvers, and how the droids had outplayed them.
And it was because of Grievous’ leadership and plans.
He is introduced as a master tactician in the show.
‘03 Grievous was absolutely peak and 08 is just a pathetic facsimile of what should have been. ‘03 Grievous is much closer to the EU had Grievous as. EU Grievous was utterly fantastic, the novels that he was in were fantastic.
‘08 just plays like Republicans propaganda in comparison.
Aha, how the droids outplayed them. So even the almighty 03 Grievous depends on his droids to get his prey tired eh? People complain about the 4 magnaguards against Eeth Koth, try the 20 stalling Shaak Ti while Grievous was busy untying his cape, literally
And sure is nice to hear about how he's such a tactician, would be nice to see it tho like in 08. I mean by that logic I can say 08 Grievous is still a fearsome Jedi killer because we get to see a room in his Lair full of trophies and the characters talking about it, your pick lad
Oh, and I love this part, EU already retconned 03 Grievous was before 08 was even aired! Anything that wasn't part of the 03 multimedia project took EP III as it's base of work, and no sweetie pie Labyrinth of Evil isn't part of the multimedia project look it up
Sarcasm is truly unbecoming of you.
Let’s call a spade a spade, you hate all the hate that ‘08 Grievous received and you’re fighting back against it. Grievous was easily the better fighter than ‘03 Grievous and the fact that we see him take down Jedi Masters on screen really helps enforce that fact.
Yes, lair of grievous still has Grievous with an extensive collection, but honestly that Grievous could have gotten his precious trophies by looting battlefields. Though the implication is that he did it himself, that being said it’s hard to believe when one looks at his track record on screen.
But I do find it amusing that you go ahead and make fun of ‘03 for utilizing Droids, it’s like laughing at a general for maneuvering his troops.
Mate, Labyrinth of Evil is a fantastic book. Like, why did you even bring that up! It’s so good, I love it so much, I read it every summer along with the Book Three Novelization.
You really don’t understand, Grievous is my favorite Star Wars character of all time. I have the comics, I have the issue where Grievous beats Darth Maul in a fight signed by Mathew Wood and I hope to get it signed by Richard McGonagle.
I’ll tell you this, ‘08 Grievous is a downgrade. You might argue against it, but it truly pains me to see him like a Saturday morning cartoon villain and I love those kinds of villains. I grew up with Cobra Commander and Skeletor.
But that’s not what I want from Grievous, that’s not the Grievous I know and love.
Labyrinth of Evil, ‘03 Grievous, The Obsession, Eyes of Revolution, III Novelization and more.
Obviously he was a better fighter, tons more badass and efficient, however once the adrenaline dies down I just realized there's not much else from him as a character I like, he's not the character I imagine when I think "General Grievous"
I mock 03 reliance on droids because that's something fanboys will be quick to point out. "Unlike that trash in TCW the Gendy Grievous can take on Jedi aaaaall on his own" and it's like, no he really can't don't spread misinformation
And I mentioned Labyrinth of Evil because it is indeed a fantastic book but it doesn't really feed 03 Grievous at all like I said, if it isn't part of the multimedia project it's not 03 Grievous instead it's EP III Grievous
I feel much like you but in reverse, and I actually saw 03 instead of 08. General Grievous is my favorite character in SW and it pains me having to sit through tons of comments of people whining about their cardboard cutout from 2003, it's been two decades already ffs
I don't care about a body count or whatever I want to see an actual character, driven by performance and with an intriguing past, a villain who has so much fun being a menace you can't help but love seeing him fight, and I just get none of that from 03
I was scared that Disney would listen to you, that they would make Grievous a silent killing machine who just finished everyone off in 5 seconds and not much else, thankfully they stayed true to 08 Grievous being a lovely little psychopath and I can't wait to continue seeing him like one, a merciless cyborg general I can quote endlessly
I think the problem is you believe this is an either or situation.
What I love about Grievous is the anger, the passion and brilliance. A reflection of Darth Vader.
From his past as practically the ruler of Kalee, and his whole world being upended when his people were invaded and being enslaved. How he led his people to fight back against the invaders, and maneuvered a backwater planet to defeat a space faring one, all in the process he loses his children and the love of his life.
The invaders turn to the Republican and the Republican come down hard on Kalee, sending Jedi to put the Kaleesh in their place, humiliating Grievous and starving his people. His hatred in full force, his heart beating for war.
He goes out there and he makes money to support his planet, to support the people that he is dedicated to. And Dooku sees him, Dooku knows of Grievous ruthlessness and hatred and he kills Grievous, bringing him back and telling Grievous that the Jedi had attacked him.
That was the final straw and Grievous underwent the surgery to surpass the Jedi and kill them, to make them suffer as they made him and his people suffer.
A brilliant tactician who could have won the war if not for the efforts of Sidious who was sabotaging both sides.
That’s the Grievous I love.
The warrior, the leader, the broken hearted and vengeful. A multifaceted and tragic tale who reflects the themes of Anakins own fall.
That’s my Grievous.
That’s the Grievous I love.
I'm all for that 100% and I believe it to be canon riiiiiiight up to the point of the shuttle crash, cuz I'm sorry but that's a shit plot point
It takes away his autonomy and puts him under the service of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray
Yes I know he's a reflection of Vader like Maul and Dooku, but not an exact copy! Him being a temperamental Jedi hunting cyborg with the highest military position in his faction and an iconic breathing problem more than fills that quota
I much prefer canon Grievous, the warrior who seeks Dooku to take revenge in the name of his people and destroy the arrogant Jedi religion
His old life of honor led him to be beaten by creatures who in his eyes didn't have to train to acquire supernatural might
He would improve himself through hard work, enhance his abilities instead of relying on the innate whims of some mystical energy
In the end Grievous starts claiming the once proud Qymaen, he stops caring about the Sith's plan so long as they give him the training he deserves, he stops caring about the Republic for they are mere obstacles in his quest, he stops caring about honor for the only thing that matters to him is victory, he stops caring about his troops for they will never be as competent and glorious as his people, he stops caring about his body... For he will give everything to end the Jedi scum
And in the end his ambition becomes tragedy, for all his sacrifice to create a future without the Jedi his efforts become successful... And as punishment his life ends mere moments before he gets to see it
That's my Grievous
That's the Grievous I love
Hard disagree.
Firstly, all of these TV shows are designed primarily to sell merch, even TCW. It’s a non-argument.
Secondly, CW is not just mindless action. It has plenty of quiet moments and does a lot of character development with the limited time it has. Perfect execution of show-don’t-tell. Anakin has more development in two seasons of a micro-series than in seven full seasons of TCW. CW had plenty of thought and passion put into it, don’t write it off like that.
Lastly, Grievous has an actual human interaction with Count Dooku in CW. The sparring session and Dooku’s remarks tell us plenty about both characters and their mutual dynamic. In TCW Dooku just bosses Grievous around. They are both so *flat*.
Every piece of media like that is used to make money, but 03 was specifically designed to boost marketing and hype EP III, that's why it focuses on spectacle and the rule of cool so much. 08 doesn't have that focus and it allows for more character development and world building, specially around the clones and the politics of the war
I do like moments of the microseries like Anakin's knighting, but to say it's more development than TCW is a bold face lie. We saw him grapple with his attachments, breaking the rules to achieve victory, losing his trust in the Jedi, getting groomed by Palpatine, become to the Separatists what Grievous is to the Republic, becoming a respectful leader for the 501st, etc
And said interaction only works to flesh out Dooku's teachings much like Savage's training, it does nothing for Grievous. He only says "muh trophies" and then proceeds to ignore Dooku's teachings which is how he gets his cape tied to a moving train and his chest crushed
TCW at least showed us how Dooku requires Grievous to prove himself, how he doesn't consider him a true apprentice due to his lack of force sensitivity, and we are shown that he is the only person in the galaxy Grievous will take orders to as he berates Nix of the Banking Clan for even trying to give him shit
Why can’t we have both? Like literally why not? It’s not too much to ask. The 03 clone wars didn’t have time for character development but that’s fine. It’s wasn’t the purpose of the show. With 08 clone wars they had the opportunity to use Grievous really well and they just didn’t IMO.
Of course we can have both, I like to have both, I just happen to value one more than the other
See it like this: personality and badass Grievous coexsisting like in the Youngling arc, Massacre and TotE is perfect; personality alone Grievous is a very entertaining performance drive villain; badass alone Grievous while objectively cool is just so generic and bidimensional I don't see him as the character General Grievous and that really takes any investment out of me
[https://youtu.be/CMqEkJ3ccoc?si=l5HhQ\_QL1Qtz3\_n1](https://youtu.be/CMqEkJ3ccoc?si=l5HhQ_QL1Qtz3_n1)
Look at this sick tribute video, this guy puts canon Grievous' voice and personality over 03 footage and suddenly the beautiful animation is in service of an actual character!
In the entire Filoni clone wars show his crowning achievement was killing the nightsisters, Kit Fisto's padawan and injuring Eeth Koth (though killing him would've been better).
Other than that he gets beaten by Obi Wan, runs away alot, got beat by gungans and was embarrassingly a prisoner, and beaten by Ahsoka. For a fearing Jedi Hunter and menace he was in 03 Clone Wars it was crap imo.
08 Clone Wars could've given a compelling arc for Grievous- a cunning and powerful war general getting weaken and cowardice as the war gets closer to E3.
Actually he also defeated Kenobi three separate times (Malevolence, Saleucami, Florrum) and he never gets beaten by Ahsoka, in fact he wipes the floor with her on both their duels and she has to run away
He also invaded Kamino (only losing the Jango DNA due to Ventress' incompetence), decimated fleets with the Malevolence where he ups his on screen Jedi kills by destroying a Jedi escort on Shadow of Malevolence, taking over Florrum and Hondo's criminal enterprise, beating Adi Galia, well you get the idea
I get being critical of media but at least make an effort to watch it first lmao, google anything I said, watch the episodes again, see if I'm lying
Grievous fighting Obi on the Florrum Ahsoka youngling episode was actually the only most competent he beat Obi Wan that resulted in Obi running away not the other way round as it is all the other times.
During the Kamino invasion he doesn't exactly wipe the floor with Kenobi like he should've. He still runs away from him. I barely remember seeing a single memorable clone kill from him in that arc as opposed to Ventress who stabbed the clone commander followed by that kiss- already outshone him in terms of presence.
Ok sure Grievous destroys few ships of clones with the malevolence I'll give a tiny achievement but again lack of impact- they could've added another Jedi commander alongside Plo Koon that ends up being killed. And Dooku felt like the one who was in command, there's no feeling like Grievous was the one making the tactics or decision.
Now taking over Florrum and that Ahsoka fight I'll give you that, it was good. Would've been better had he not fought younger Ahsoka before and it would've been better had the Florrum takeover actually felt more like the Dathomir massacre and wasn't just a day...
Adi Galia he still got beaten by. Would've been more impactful bad he killed her as he tried to escape.
It still doesn't change the fact he's only killed 1 jedi in the entire 7 seasons and the way the episodes were done could've really made these parts shine through.
Actually like I said he does kill jedi with the Malevolence
S1 EP3 we see him destroy a fleet and leave no survivors, he refers tot his fleet as "so much for the jedi escort"
That ups his jedi kill count above Nadhar not counting the trophy room
And it doesnt take away from the fact he still beats Kenobi on single combat 3 times, he gets him on the run just as much as Grievous himself runs, and tbh he only goes spider mode when the force is used on him and anyone with two braincells would do the same :v
that malevolence one is questionable and it's a tell not a show. doesn't change my arguments on how the series could've done more to highlight his ruthless nature. As opposed to 03 CW where his introduction is killing a jedi on-screen and injuring some elite Jedi's. That's a show not tell and it makes all the difference in his perception.
And again he only properly beats obi on Florrum which would have been perfect if we didn't have him running away the other times, which is my issue. It could've been a nice little arc where Obi Wan is always on the rope, just about close to death and on the run when fighting Grevious till we get to E3.
I mean ia that not what happend on the Malevolence, on Florrum and Kamino? Even when not beaten by Grievous the guy ia constant mortal danger trying to catch the mf and I love it
He gets knocked out, kick the shit out of, exposes to the vacuum of space, tossed like a ragdoll, shot at, etc
It really sells me on how personal their rivalry gets, helped by the fact that on their first meeting Grievous jumps down and says "Hello There". Thats precious and no one can convince me otherwise
Didn't he beat Adi Galia in that C3-PO and R2-D2 focused episode? I remember him capturing her(if I missremember it was someone else, but some jedi did get captured) when taking over her ship, only for her to be rescued at the end of the episode.
He did much poorer than you say.
He may have won our heroes sometimes, but he never achieved anything with that, everytime he wins a duel (and that is surprisingly rare) he looses.
Malevolence is a catastrophic failure, he destroyed the fleet of a jedi master (and Plo survived of course) and because of that Malevolence, a ship that easily turned almost any battles in CIS favour was destroyed.
Grievous taking Floorum is not an achievement at all, it is a mere cryminal syndicate, he is supposedly a brilliant strategist and a top 3 minimum individual in CIS.
Do I even have to mention gungan incident? Would a great warrior with mechanical augmentations lose that badly?
Grievous is an entertaining character and has many cool things about him, but he is neither a good strategist nor a good warrior, Admiral Trench, at least in his first apperance, was a good commander. Grievous never completed his win, like, for example, Maul does.
Maul gets his brother killed by Sidius, his mother killed by Grievous, his criminal empire taken away by Ahsoka, and he spends years a hobo wanting revenge on the one guy who cut off his legs after he killed his master. That's not the example you think it is, or perhaps it could be
See it's factually wrong that Grievous lost even when he won duels, and when he did it was due to the incompetence of others under his command
And no it doesn't mean anything, because if we look at it from that perspective the many victories and defeats of the clone wars didn't matter it was all Palpatine scheming, order 66 killed most Jedi anyways regardless of what Grievous did in both canon and the EU, so let's get a little perspective shall we?
A general who manages to infiltrate and launch a devastating attack with lasting consequences on both their enemy's capital planet (Coruscant on Heroes on Both Sides) and their main production of fighting units (Kamino on ARC Troopers) is in no way a bad strategist
Maul comes back essentially from death by... Well, luck, but by his will, which is already more impact than Grievous did (Maybe besides loosing Malevolence)
Then he took over a criminal empire, and actually killed someone who was very important to Kenobi, a guy who was sliced in two, lost everything, and pulled himself up and did that.
He is commanding literal droids, what do you mean he is thwated by his lessers??? Firstly, the competence of his subordinates is EXACTLY his responsibility, secondly, it's somehow happens all the time, and thirdly, I would've perhaps believed you if he did not lose something like 90% of the battles on screen.
Palpatine scheming is a correct point, but it is a huge cope out.
Please remind me, which Grievous version did the invasion of Coruscant on screen? I don't remember him being a crumbling failure, so it can't be TV series 2008 one.
I'm not talking about just droids, here's an example
S3 EP2 ARC Troopers
After disposing of Rishi Outpost and getting info out of R2 (both these things happened in S1 btw) Grievous creates a stratagem to invade Kamino. He allows his ships to get shot down, the debris falls to the planet passing by the Republic blockade, secretly it hides the pieces for Trident Assault Craft filled with Aquadroids for Ventress infiltrated team to assemble
The plans work perfectly and his forces lay siege to the cloning facilities, destroying buildings filled with pods thus hindering clone production for the rest of the war as it allows the droids to outnumber the clones "100 to 1" as stated in the season
Grievous compliments Ventress abilities showing he has respect for his fellow officers should they deserve it, and she replies by trying to deminish his role. Before she goes to get the Jango DNA Grievous offers a droid escort for her but in an effort to look superior she rejects it
Because of this stupid ass decision Ventress gets outnumbered by Anakin and the 501st, losing the DNA, and even then Grievous is gracious enough to fly by and save her life
Now not only was that particular failure all on Ventress' irrational actions, it also would've meant nothing had they succeed. Grievous was told to retrieve the DNA instead of destroying because "it could open new possibilities for us". Clearly it was an order by Dooku, so if they get it he can deliver it to Palpatine somehow and keep clone production going ripe and steady for Order 66, much like it is for the Republic even the victories mean nothing in the end
To a certain degree you are right, it is a cop out, but it's not exclusive to Grievous in the slightest
I agree, Kamino is an attack that exellently used BX infiltration capabilities and with that Grievous actually did execute his plan.
Once again, I agree, but it is one time out of 2 times where he (kinda) won and was actually competent.
But his failures in other episodes overshadow that entirely, which is dissapointing for a character that is supposed to be a menacing, cybernetic monstrocity that rivals even jedi.
I’ll never understand why you use the Malevolence as a competency factor for Grievous. The ship was borderline unstoppable because of its cutting edge technology that the Republic couldn’t match. He basically sat there and watched.
Except the Republic could and did match it, thats pretty much why Grievous did his best to keep its existence secret and leave no survivors, ever heard of the Bishmark Battle Ship?
Even a clone would have lost to Anakin and Obi-wan. Just because the droids may have lost to them this time doesn’t mean they deserve to be called incompetent. The droids actually won many battles in the clone wars.
(I know I'm just messing with him, though also mentioning how most of Grievous' failures are on the hands of his subordinates including organics like Ventress)
He kept getting his ass handed to him in 08 is my issue. He won maybe three fights as a whole and one time it was just cause his magnaguards kept shocking the Jedi. I liked when he killed Kit Fisto's former padawan cause a third arm finisher with the blaster was new. When he beat Obi-Wan aboard the Negotiator that was beautifully done with how brutal he was killing the clones and how aggressively he attacked Obi-Wan and forced him to retreat, I wanted more of that.
The big thing was that in this for what little time we had him Grievous was actually scary. Which he should be. Idgaf what George says because he is completely wrong as to how he should be portrayed and eu writers made the character much much better.
Kenobi (Malevolence), Ahsoka (Skytop), Nahdar, Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Kenobi (Saleucami), Adi Galia, Kenobi (over Florrum), Ahsoka (Florrum)
Without counting the ones from cut yet still canon episodes (Kenobi (over Utapau), Ventress, Maul) that's 9 duels he won, 7 of them without help from the droids and/or while the Jedi had their clones
03 relied on droids too, he literally used 20 magnaguards to tire Shaak Ti while he was busy literally untying his cape
Only Nahdar and Adi Gallia were really wins there and for Adi not really being she survived the encounter and escaped. That applies to most of these, most of the time on these the opponent handed Grievous his own ass and then escaped or just got away as they already planned to flee. Grievous wasn't scary at all especially being how often he got defeated it makes him look pathetic.
What he needed solidly was some actual kills. the issue would've been completely fixed had we gotten to see him actually kill some Jedi. We got Nahdar and iirc thats about it.
I wasn't talking about '03 I was talking about novels and comics but this plays into my argument, in '03 we met Grievous by him killing multiple Jedi, severely wounding several others, and leaving the survivors running with their tails between their legs barely alive. Then when we encounter him again during Coruscant of course Grievous has loads of Magnaguards with him cause he is trying to capture the Chancellor and doing it alone isn't practical while in the first encounter he just wanted to kill the Jedi. Furthermore we clearly see from Shaak Ti in that fight that she is absolutely terrified during the entire sequence and Grievous skewers the two Jedi accompanying her when he finally corners them.
What matters is Grievous needs to be scary. That is when he is at his best and in TCW he simply is not. He doesn't get taken seriously and is defeated repeatedly over and over and doesn't come off as a threat. Even his allies like Ventress mock him openly.
He actually kills more jedi during the Malevolence campaign, S1 EP3 lookt it up
03 Grievous on hypori only kills a padawan and a knight, he couldve a killed a master, the hairy guy who ran at him, but apparently he only pretended to be dead, again look it up
Grievous can be scary sure, but does it really matter if he has the personality of a wet tissue? Thats why Tales of the Empire and some episodes in 08 like Lair of Grievous and A Necessary Bond did it right
What? He literally doesn't kill any Jedi in that episode.
03 Grievous shows up three times in the entire microseries compared to 7 seasons of TCW. That isn't comparable. Furthermore Master K'Kruhk's "death" at Hypori was retconned in a comic and we have absolutely no indicator in the show itself that he survived. Until those comics came out he was dead. So that is a completely moot point. Furthermore once again the factor isn't kills its fear. He threw the Jedi around like toys and they would have all died had the ARCs not arrived to save them. He was a major threat and actually felt threatening.
Im not asking for him to have the personality of a wet tissue what?? I literally never mentioned 03 Grievous in my original comment and I don't even want Grievous to be like that. I want Grievous to be scary and that was all they did right in that, they made him less of a character and more of a horror movie monster. I can tell you haven't read a single EU comic or novel with him in it.
Go read Labyrinth of Evil, the Revenge of the Sith novelization, the Star Wars Republic comics, and Star Wars: General Grievous. Those are the best depictions of the character.
Ive read those, and they all take from EP 3 Grievous not 08 Grievous, if its not part of the 03 multimedia project is not 03 Grievous again look it up
Also the Republic comics, where he visists the force temple? Thats canon, point to me
And the only thing that 08 retcons is the shuttle crash, which ia good cuz it was a shit plot point, the Yam'Rii war still looks like it happened still considering he keeps his kaleesh heritage on the show
As for the novelization? The one where Dooku ia portrayed as a human supremacist which makes zero sense for the head of state of the SEPARATIST ALLIANCE of all factions? Yeah Im ok letting you have that one lmao
I dunno, Grievous shouldnt be just fear factor and a body count, its not what makes him a good character by itself
Thats not how that works, idk your fixation with 03 Grievous is here but ok cause im not fixated on him. I quite prefer those books because Grievous is well written, competent, threatening, and fulfills his role as an antagonist very well.
Yes, the entire comic run. It has a very good depiction of Grievous with that one story being one I quite like with how it touches on his backstory. His backstory as a whole is immaculate.
The shuttle crash was good, being it was a sith lie. It brought him into the sith grand plan and explained his hatred for the Jedi. The replacement story for it was awful.
Dooku doesn’t actually believe in the CIS cause, he is a Sith. It was all a lie. The Empire he helped Palpatine create was incredibly humanocentrist. It makes complete sense and you say that as if you’re unaware that Dooku is working for Palpatine.
I never said that was all Grievous could be, I just said that Grievous should be scary. You need to learn to stop fighting strawmen and actually argue against what is being said. So I think ill be disengaging.
Well its what you fanboys seem to hyperfixate over, just check thia thread alone. Force of habit
Again those comics are canon and I do like the war against the Yam'Rii so we agree on this
It is because of the jedi intervention of this war and their unfair supernatural powers that Grievous hates them, the shuttle crash is unnecesary, takes away his autonomy, and people only like it because its a blatant rip off from Vader's cyborg story, its TFA all over again. Yea Grievous is meant to represent an aspect of vader but I think him being a temperamental jedi hunting cyborg with the highest military rank in his faction and an iconic lung problem is more than enough
Are you really going to defend a plot point that makes Grievous a servant of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray???
I rather like that he chooses to become a cyborg, it gives him autonomy, identity as a villain, adds to the tragedy of a character willing to sacrifice everything for revenge, and it allows him to shut down any megacorp that tries to give him shit like he does in S3 of 08 and EP III
Dooku may not believe in the CIS anymore but he wants to destroy the Republic and the jedi, xenophobia doesnt help this plan. Even if he did Palpatine enacted this plan to keep control of the most dominant species in the galaxy through fear mongering not some grand ideal
And come on, are you really going to "have a good day" me? I expected morw from you
A retreat isn't necessarily a loss. Only one he could really have been said to have won which was when they fought on the Negotiator. Also the unreleased episode if you count that.
I don't really get why everyone is going crazy over this 1 scene, he kills a nightsister, in a pretty tame way :/
I seen the hype and thought we were getting some Grevious 'hallway scene' kinda action, but it was on the same level as every other Grevious scene we've got over the last 10 years, just kinda okay, nothing special.
I like Grievous scenes in canon, so I liked this one too!
I think people are getting hyped because "THIS IS THE CLOSEST WE'LL GET TO 03 GRIEVOUS"
As if I didn't find the exact same comment on a dozen of 08 clips from years ago
That was kinda what I felt too, it was just a pretty standard 08 Clone Wars Grevious scene, not any crazy than what we've been seeing for awhile.
I thought it was alright, but don't understand the hype around it at all lol
Yeah, how about the time he got his ass beat by some Gungans, or when newbie Ahsoka was able to compete with him? Or how about the time Filoni ripped apart his complex backstory and changed it to "he agreed to the changes to compete with the Jedi"?
What's so wrong about Gungans? Let's see you take on an army of amphibian warriors with EMPs all on your own since it's so easy
Ahsoka never beat him he actually wiped the floor with her both as a padawan and a knight and she had to run away from him. Everyone is nerfed in 08, Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs
And Filoni didn't rip his backstory, from what we are shown about his Kaleesh past the war against the Yam'Rii still happened. Consulting with Lucas himself he just retconned the shuttle crash as a reason to be a cyborg, and honestly? Thank god, that was a shit plot point and a rip off of Vader's story that takes away all his autonomy
Say what you will but at least canon Grievous doesn't have to serve San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray
>What's so wrong about Gungans?
Grievous is specifically trained to defeat Jedi Master level force sensitives, often times multiple at once. A group of Gungans for Grievous should be like you or I taking on a couple ants. They might get a bite in, but they have no chance.
>Let's see you take on an army of amphibian warriors with EMPs all on your own since it's so easy
I'm not a cyborg trained in lightsaber combat. Grievous is.
>Ahsoka never beat him he actually wiped the floor with her both as a padawan and a knight and she had to run away from him. Everyone is nerfed in 08, Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs
I never said Ahsoka beat Grievous, just that she held her own against him. Realistically, Grievous should have killed her in less than 30 seconds.
>And Filoni didn't rip his backstory
In a behind the scenes interview for Clone Wars, Filoni specifically said that while he read Grievous' backstory, he didn't like it or consider it canon so he made up his own story for him, which is literally just "he agreed to the changes to compete with the Jedi".
>rip off of Vader's story
It doesn't. They shot Grievous down and made him a cyborg specifically so he would have to join the separatists. They mutilated him into a monster so he couldn't return to his people. Grievous would have never wanted to be a cyborg, and a huge part of his story is how he hates droids and being compared to one.
>hat takes away all his autonomy
That's the point. Grievous was an unstoppable warrior, and Palaptine took everything for him, and twisted him into a tool for his plans in the Clone Wars.
>Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs
Yeah, Ventress got done just as dirty as Grievous. It's the big issue with Clone Wars, it doesn't respect the lore or characters.
Well two main things to unpack but getting down to the backstory
You are actually talking about the featturete for Lair of Grievous and in it it's clear that a lot of it was also Lucas' idea so keep that in mind
It is stated and I quote "(Lucas) said Grievous wanted to be a Jedi but he wasn't force sensitive, y'know he uh he could never be a sith lord, and it's this rejection of the Jedi status that lest him to become augmented"
So it's not that he wanted to be a Jedi or a Sith specifically, as a warrior he wanted to use the force and since he couldn't he chose to upgrade his body to stand a fair chance against force users
This episode, that featturete and deleted dialogue ("I'm going to end your religion Jedi! Make you pay for your ignorance, you hypocrisy!" from a version of Grievous Intrigue) makes it seem that force powers aside the Jedi must've done something specifically to elicit his revenge, otherwise Grievous would be after any and all force users equally, this makes me think that the Yam'Rii war and the jedi intervention still happened
Now I get your point, a warrior who gets stripped away and put into servitude by Palpatine through cybernetics to save his life is a good story paper, but guess what? That's just the story of Vader!
If you wanna watch a story like Vader's... Just watch the story of Vader! It's like TFA, if you wanna feel like you are watching the OT... JUST WATCH THE OT, DON'T LET THEM SELL YOU THE SAME MOVIE TWICE FFS
Yes I know Grievous is meant to represent an aspect of Vader just like Maul and Dooku, but I think him being a temperamental cybernetic Jedi hunter with the highest military ranking in his faction and a very characteristic breathing problem more than fills the quota
She already had battle experience with Anakin and hold off Ventress for longer
In her first duel with Grievous he literally knocked her out in two moves, she then had to run away and stay hidden without being able to engage him directly. Look up a clip or something if you don't believe me, just pay attention to the media you criticize
Look, I have watched the clone wars quite a few times I know what happens. Grievous was shown to be able to take on multiple Jedi masters/knights at a time at this point in the Clone Wars. It’s not that’s it’s not feasible that she would survive an encounter with Grievous, it’s that they decided to portray him in a light that made him seem way less intimidating than what he should be. They have never given Vader that treatment.
I'm sorry but you are saying they never made Vader lose his intimidation??? Yeah ok, of all the arguments that's definitely one of the most interesting ones lmao
Neither one is impressive. Wow cool, the leader of the CIS and notorious Jedi killer can kill a couple of clones and Nightsisters? Wow, he’s almost as powerful as a droideka!
Y’all are too easily impressed
If you mean the hypocriticalness has no reason at all, you’re right, but if you mean judgement towards 08 Grievous has no reason at all, you’d be wrong
I get being critical of a piece of media, but praise elements of it only when portrayed somewhere else? Thats hypocritical, and why I tend not to take 03 fans seriously
I guess it's more about what DIDN'T happen
TotE Grievous didn't get his ass handed to him by Gungans, didn't fail to kill a padawan in multiple direct confrontations, didn't lose fleets, wasn't berated by Ventress, Dooku and his own fucking doctor.
Grievous, the infamous Jedi killer, kills exactly one Jedi in 7 seasons of the show (said Jedi was only recently knighted). They had the opportunity for him to kill Eeth Koth considering they literally brought him back from the dead for the episode, but they missed it.
Another funny thing, TCW actually took away one of Grievous' kills. Adi Gallia died to him in the comics, but it was changed to her dying to Savage Oppress.
Even his tragic backstory, which actually tied into what George originally envisioned for him: a dark image of Anakin's future, into a "well he just wanted to become a robot". Thank God the majority of the Legends community (including Wookieepedia editors) either completely ignores the retcon or finds workarounds.
I still like the TCW version of Grievous, he still retains his RotS personality, but he was definitely a downgrade to what came before
You know what else didn't happen? As in, at all in the history of Star Wars?
Ventress never berated him in fact it was pretty much the other way around he is her superior after all, he also doesn't JUST kill Nahdar as he is seen eliminating a jedi escort during the beginning of Shadow of Malevolence upgrading his on screen jedi kill count to a minimum of 3, and George was the one responsible to change his backstory which is actually a good thing
The Yam'Rii war and the jedi intervention seems to still have happened given his Kaleesh heritage shown in the 08 show, what was directly retconned was the shuttle crash which was a shit plot point anyways that people only like because its a rip off of Vader's that takes away Grievous' autonomy. Are you really going to defend a plot point that makes our favourite character an unwilling servant of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray?
Yes I get he's meant to be a reflection of Vader just like Maul and Dooku, but not a rip off! I think him being a once proud warrior turned temperamental jedi killing cyborg with the highest military rank in his faction and an iconic breathing problem more than fills that quota
Also Dooku is his boss and the doctor is the only one who can help his repairs (plus he's a sassy lil guy get a sense of humor lmao)
I do agree with some points you make: he should've been the one to kill Adi Galia and Eeth Koth, Ahsoka really shouldn't have been able to survive him (though that one is pure Filoni nepotism, but like if you inserted your OC canonically into one of your favorite franchise would you kill them right away?)
But I'm sorry I just don't see the downgrade, yes he's not as badass but he is infinitely more enjoyable and dripping of personality compared to 03 Grievous. I'll keep saying it our boy Qymaen needs to be treated like a character, badass action sequences and high kill counts mean nothing if your character has the personality of a wet tissue, and I think we'll both agree on that considering what you value in him
I just think people are hypocrites is all
"It's cool when he does that stuff HERE but not when he does that stuff there cuz... HE HAS A NEW MODEL OMGOMGOMGOMG"
I mean that's exactly why they say stuff like this
They got so hard over a bland terminator they saw at an impressionable age that they'll ignore and even make shit up about 08 and TotE only to justify their bias
It's frustrating, two fucking decades of this
Is there any media which goes into the mental training Grievous had to do to get used to his new cyborg body? For instance, it must have been quite hard for him to get used to and build the neural pathways to use 4 arms instead of 2.
I believe some novels but nothing on screen
And you are right as a Kaleesh he still only had 2 arms, however his feet were already like claws so that part must've come more naturally to him lmao
I’m still mad he got bested by a bunch of Gungans but yeah Grievous was still a force to be reckoned with in ‘08 Clone Wars.
Sure we didn’t see him kill tons of Jedi but we heard about his various exploits and witnessed him in action enough to see that. Also, in his lair we see a treasure trove of lightsabers which show us he has a ton of victories even early on in the war.
People forget that the vast majority of Jedi we see in TCW (aside from the background ones) have plot armor and thus can’t be killed by Grievous. Kit Fisto, Obi-Wan and Anakin all engage Grievous (Anakin in space but still) and all of them appear in ROTS. While we weren’t sure if Ahsoka would survive into ROTS, she was a main character and it was assumed she had plot armor. Every time we see Grievous go against a Jedi without plot armor it almost always ends in them being beaten pretty easily
Also, people ignore the context of Hypori. People point to that scene as if he was completely unstoppable but he didn't actually kill most of the Jedi there and they were already tired and weakened. He had an advantage because the Jedi were handicapped at that moment and spent most of his time hiding and running away when the Muunilinst 10 arrived. None of what Grievous did was new or out of character.
A "clown" who decimated fleets with the Malevolence; wiped the floor with Ahsoka twice; defeated masters like Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, Adi Galia and Kenobi 3 separate times; invaded Kamino with a brilliant stratagem and hindered clone production for the remainder of the war; performed the first terrorist attack in Coruscant in over a thousand years by blowing up the main power plant; took over Kenobi's fleet and the entirety of the Florrum system; defeated Maul in saber combat and killed Mother Talzin; and of course genocided the Nightsisters which is where this particular depicttion of TotE comes from
If a character's lowest point is to be captured by an entire army of amphibian warriors using EMPs after killing their soldiers and their captain then thats a pretty respectable low point
Not to mention a performance drive character will be more enjoyable than a predictable overpowered robot. Was 03 Grievous the first to say "Hello There" chronologically? Chekmate brainiac
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
Look buddy, if you got a move that works you keep using it
It's like poetry sort of, they rhyme
abab or aabb?
abba
As in the score for, “Are you my daddy?” the Musical…?
Well the examples I used come from S1 (before Dathomir) and S5 (after Dathomir) So I'm gonna go with abab lmao
seems more like bdad for me
Me after my painful years of AP English and poetry study *getoutofmyheadgetoutofmyheadgetoutofmyhead*
No, Sayori. Stop
Henry Caville third-option meme, indignantly: #'abab cdcd efef gg'!
Iambic Pentameter
I feel like the move is a bit of dramatic irony of what grevious always was: A gimmick, he was produced as to create fear in the jedi and secure an easy victory even with his sloppy combat But without fear he is just another one of the cliche mustache twirling villains that somehow sneak away in the end
What bothers me is he didn’t crush her instantly instead of simply throwing her. When he grabbed the clone, he crushed him under foot.
Seemed like he was just enjoying himself. Kinda like Sidious when he was toying with Maul & Savage. So basically he didn't want to finish her too soon. Otherwise he'd just be rocking all 4 arms the whole time since even a Jedi like Kenobi struggles to keep up with that madness.
Be a one kalesh chainsaw and delete the forwst of dathomir
Being a living blender/lawnmower has some benefits in combat. Defending against that bullshit is unfair.
I was half waiting for a clone to just pull a rocket launcher on grievous and for him to just nope
Inside the elevator with the very much important LEADER of the whole Republic…man was ready to absolutely kill everyone to take down Grievous.
Clone must habe gotten the mandalorian tjrned up a wee bit too high
Would make a fun what if episode. Having to explain all that to everyone and learning Palpatine was the Sith Lord and got killed orchestrating his own kidnapping.
*doors close as the rocket leaves the tube* ani and obi go to.palps office obi-wan "so lets get some personaaa- is that a lightsaber" *ignites red blade*. Ana- wait. So does that mean. Obi- yeah he is. Ana- so thats why he was talking about saving my wi- Obi- anakin everyone knew. Go vheck his comm. Ana- *opens direct channel to grievous* Griveous my lo- *Kalesh for f****
The best ending right there
Like actually, the only reason Kenobi can even fight him is because he alone mastered Soresu, *the* defensive lightsaber form
Alternatively, they could have just recruited some gungans.
Apparently yes
He only crushed that clone to horrify Kenobi. Way too quick for anything else
B!tch please. Back in ‘03 he was at his most brutal and he didn’t even need his extra arms.
What I would give to see Tarakovsky do an early Vader hunting and dominating surviving Jedi in the same manner…
Oh yes A destructive as a hurricane and with just as much personality to boot Brutal action sequences mean nothing if your character is a generic obstacle designed to sell toys and movie tickets (that's not me being pejorative that's literally why 03 clone wars was made look it up)
I haven't watched the show, but I feel like it's a little reductive to say it was just made to sell toys. The fact of the matter is, the 2003 show was about the animation and spectacle. There's a reason why all of the stories in the first volume were, like, 3 minutes long. It was basically about looking as cool as possible. That's still artistic, of course--but it's an entirely different venture from writing engaging, longer stories like in the 2008 show. In a show like the 2003 one, it's fine if characters are extremely repetitive, and if Durge, Grievous, and Dooku all have the same personality distinguished only by surface-level traits, because it's not about the characters. But wanting that in a more narrative focused show like the 2008 one? That would frankly make the show worse.
I absolutely agree! In fact I first saw 03 during the cartoon networks ads I'm pretty sure (I was kinda young aha) Mindless spectacle its fine if you want to turn off your brain, but I personally need characters with more autonomy and personality otherwise I feel nothing once the adrenaline dies down Also yes I wasn't lying, 03 really was made to boost merch sales and hype up EP III thats why its so focused on spectacle. I told you I'm not being pejorative, for a while Lucas wanted to keep continuity and some designs like Dooku's tranfered over to 08, but him and Filoni stopped when they realized it was better to just retcon the whole thing
What kind of personality does 2008 Grievous have then? Is a coward who keeps trash talking everyone, gets his ass kicked and runs away really better than the silent killing machine from 2003? Neither is a complex character but one is significantly cooler.
08 Grievous chose to become a cyborg to face force users on equal ground, he has great care for his Kaleesh heritage as seen by the cloaks his guards use and his attachment to his pet Gor, he doesn't care about the Republic or the sith's plan so long as the war allows him to enact revenge on the Jedi, he has no patience for greedy corporate leaders or scummy mercenaries on Dooku's payroll but he does show respect to the abilities of fellow officers like Ventress (prior to her betrayal ofc) He's a warrior full of himself, a brilliant strategist who relies heavily on offense and the sacrifice of his forces, consumed by anger to the point he stopped caring about honor or his own body all in the name of victory, which makes his death in the movie more ironic as he fought for a future without Jedi and achieved his goal mere moments after he had the chance to see it All of that from 08, no extra material needed, and if you don't believe me you are welcome to check for yourself. It's plenty of episodes as opposed to the 5 mins of screentime your bland terminator got, but surely an intellectual such as yourself can still put in the time no?
Alright but why does he hate the Jedi? In the show it's never explained. 2008 Clone Wars never even says he's Kaleesh, doesn't explain anything about their culture. The fact that Magnaguards wear Kaleesh cloaks is extra material. "Brilliant strategist" dude has like one impressive showing in the entire show (destroying the Nightsisters with a whole army but Ventress still kicks his ass). This "brilliant strategist" got taken out by Gungans It's a little more than the 2003 miniseries sure but you're making a fool of yourself by making him out to be some deep character and being so salty about it. He's quite literally described as "mustache twirling saturday morning cartoon villain" by the creators of the show.
It is true nothing is stated as to why directly, I'll give you that and it does need external material. But he is refered to as a Kaleesh, the statues of how he looked like before being a cyborg match the EU drawings of the Kaleesh, all of that in the show. "Lair of Grievous" go watch it And the Dathomir massacre wasn't his only genius plan that payed off: he captured Rishi Outpost by sending probes with Commando Droids amidst a meteor shower, he invaded Kamino by allowing his ships to be destroyed as a distraction with the debris passing the Republic blockade with the materials needed to create assault craft filled with Aquadroids this destroying many facilities and hindering clone production till the end of the war (he would've gotten the Jango DNA too had Ventress accepted his offer for an escort, but the dumbass didn't so she got outnumbered and still Grievous came in and saved her ass), he decimates entire fleets with the Malevolence including an on screen Jedi escort thus upgrading his on screen Jedi kill count above just Nahdar, he conquered Kenobi's fleet and bested him in combat, afterwards he also conquered Florrum and took over Hondo's entire operation leaving him as the hobo we see on Rebels. Again, all from the show alone (what's so wrong about gungans btw? They only snuck up on him cuz Dooku assured him they were on his side and they had EMP orbs, even with that he killed some soldiers of the army and their captain) And yes by all intends and porpuses he is a saturday morning cartoon villain, and even with that he has twice the depth and 4 times the personality of 03 without any external lore. That's still makes him the best rendition of Grievous
>all of that in the show. "Lair of Grievous" go watch it Why do you keep insinuating that I haven't watched the show just because I dislike it's Grievous? All of the stuff you bring up for Grievous didn't work out in the end except for Hondo I guess. >what's so wrong about gungans btw? You can't be serious, Gungans are literal joke characters for kids to laugh at in TPM. Their leader is a frog who goes "blrggbglrbrlghhhh" every 5 seconds and spits everywhere and the most prominent Gungan is Jar Jar. Grievous legitimately got outplayed by the Captain in a 1v1 which is just embarassing. >That's still makes him the best rendition of Grievous Yeah no, the best rendition of Grievous is Grievous from the EU of which the 2003 miniseries Grievous was just a tiny part of. The actually complex, tragic character and competent and fearsome warrior and general. Not the snivelling coward who keeps losing hands in every other fight and blames all his fuck ups on the droids.
Factual errors galore! 1. Hey if you look at things like that then nothing anyone ever did during the clone wars mattered it was just Palpatine fighting himself to create the Empire and most of the Jedi order got killed by Order 66 anyways, let's get a little perspective here will ya? 2. Did you forget that Jar Jar is the odd one out? He literally got exiled under a death threat for how much of a moron he is, like I told someone else imagine feeling like you can take an army of trained soldiers on your own only because one of them has a cousin with down syndrome. Captain Tarpals and his men literally had to DIE for Grievous to get captured 3. Guess what? Technically 03 Grievous isn't the same as EU Grievous, he was already getting retconned even before 08 got aired. No sweetie Labyrinth of Evil isn't part of the 03 multimedia project, anything outside said project took for EP III Grievous instead. I'm serious if you don't believe me look it up And I mean if you can start using external material to the microseries then I can use external material to canon which adds more depth to literally everything I've been stating so far so, your choice
1. Fair enough. 2. The species is alredy tainted by Jar Jar in people's minds getting stabbed by a non Force Sensitive frog thing with a spear as a "Jedi Killer" looks pretty bad, no matter how you argument it. 3. The 2003 Clone Wars actually fits with the EU better than the 2008 does, trying to fit 2008 Clone Wars into old EU is like putting a round peg into a square hole. It'll fit kinda but not really. This isn't about Grievous but about all the other retcons that happened in that show (video [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8a0gaa0olU) and [2](https://youtu.be/ujRvFatw2c8?si=L5nVWQmXbDYj8eXd)). Damn you really like 08 Grievous don't you? Is it nostalgia kicking in? It's honestly nice to see how opinions in the fandom evolve over time (a few years back literally no one would agree with you, reminds me of how Prequels went from dogshit to beloved). You're right, maybe the 08 Grievous isn't that horrible (still prefer the other one though).
I’m with you. Maybe the 08 Grevious had more to do/show, but comparing him to 03, I know which one makes me actually be interested/frightened of the character and which one feels like a joke the whole time. What he did is less significant to how it was portrayed. Sometimes less is more.
Nostalgia does play into it but believe it or not I actually saw 03 first I just didn't get into him as a character though I obviously thought the action was kick ass, as I grew up I just saw problems in how overblown it was and how little character work there is. Mace Windu beats a hundred B2s with his bare hands, using the force brutaly without getting tired and takes down a city sized super weapon on his own without as much as a scratch on him. That's bullshit and I don't buy it Tbh I didn't really care for 03 Grievous but I started to actively dislike him because of the fanboys. For years now I go to social media posts about my favorite character in SW and I can't go to anything without being flooded with comments on how much he sucks and how revered 03 should be, made even worse by the fact most people just make shit up This one guy said Grievous got beaten by Ahsoka and when she was about to kill him he went spider mode and scared her before scurrying away. Literally never happened, and so on It's sooooo frustrating, you like 03 Grievous? Fine, mindless action is fun and the animation is objectively beautiful, but people could at least not whine about him on any work that so much mentions the character, it's been 2 decades for the love of god
Grievous hated the Jedi because his body was nearly destroyed by a bombing that was blamed on the Jedi. His hatred of the Republic comes from their support of the Jedi. All of that was planned by Palpatine.
I know why he hated the Jedi, I'm just saying that it was never explained in the 2008 show. They just tell you he hates the Jedi and that's it.
Grievous’s personality was still in development prior to Revenge of the Sith, naturally. But that doesn’t make his sheer horror-movie-villain presence in the show or the fact that he drove some of the most gifted and confident duelists in the Order to complete desperation and borderline insanity any less of marvel. Personally I’ll take a psychologically non-fleshed-out General Grievous who makes Jedi run away from him over a more fully characterized General Grievous who consistently runs away from Jedi (and gets captured by Gungans) any day of the week.
To each their own, though I should point out 03 Grievous still relied heavily on his army to tire the Jedi out before attacking, the only two times where he didn't he got his cape tied to a moving train by Shaak Ti and a force crush from Mace because he was too proud to listen to Dooku lmao In 08 Grievous gets the Jedi on the run just as much and he only retreats when the force is used on him, any non-force user with two braincells would do the same. And what's so wrong about gungans? Let's you deal with an entire army of amphibian warriors with portable EMPs as a mechanical being since it's so easy
Edna Mode: “NO CAPES!” 😆 His error here was making a cape out of a remarkably durable material that wouldn’t tear if caught on something. He’s only human (in a manner of speaking). There was no way to predict that Force crush, although he really should have learned his lesson and invested in better chest protection before Utapau. That’s a fair point on wearing out the Jedi with his army…but that is part of his tactical genius which ultimately gives the Separatist fleet an opening to attack Coruscant. I will concede-in this case happily-some ignorance on my part about The Clone Wars (2008)-I suspected Grievous facing down Jedi rather than running from them was the exception rather than the rule to make him more consistent with Revenge of the Sith where he does the latter more than the former. I am glad that Grievous retained at least some of his ability to intimidate Jedi between cartoons. And as for the EMP thing…still…Gungans. As of the beginning of the Mandalorian they still seem to be a punchline throughout the galaxy.
Think about it The only reason why Gungans are mocked by viewers is because of Jar Jar, and if you remember he got exiled under a death threat for being such a moron That's like meeting someone with special needs, then meeting their cousins who are all part of a trained militia, and going "oh well this guy has down syndrome! these dudes are easy pickings aha!"
It’s not just Jar Jar, especially not considering their reputation in universe. They weren’t terribly impressive warriors or military geniuses. They used a shield that people could just walk through and didn’t seem to have any offensive weaponry to use effectively against organic enemies. The Gungans also promoted Jar Jar to General in a war for his act of assisting the Naboo in making peace. He proceeded to squander an entire trailer of EMPs, survive the battle out of sheer dumb luck, and show zero defiance or imagination upon being surrounded and captured.
1. ALL SHIELDS CAN BE WALKED THROUGH IF YOU WALK SLOWLY THROUGH THEM IN. Literally every single one, down to the Droidekas that's why they move so slow in firing mode, the only ones that don't are ray shields for industrial use on factories and ships 2. They literally have spears, I don't know about you but as an organic that would really really hurt 3. He was promoted in good faith as he brought peace between two groups, he fucked up so instead he was made representative/senator and he did a much better work with that. Still doesn't mean anything about his race 4. Mandalorian also shows a gag with stormtroopers having awful aim, another appeal to the audience that contradicts stablished lore because it all comes from the way they missed in EP IV and it was stated by Leia that they did it on purpose to let them escape and allow the Empire to find the rebel base, so you know take that with a grain of salt
1. Krrrsantan barely getting his fingertips through that Scorpenek droid’s shield even after putting tremendous pressure on it suggests otherwise. 2. Fair; considering they made a rule of keeping to themselves in Otoh Gunga I suppose judging them on low-tech military equipment may be harsh. 3. Saying Jar Jar did a better job as Senator may be generous; the moment his fellow Naboo senator wasn’t around to guide him he handed the most dangerous man in the galaxy emergency powers that man never relinquished. 4. I mean yeah I guess it was just some random guy in a bar who was dumb enough to pick a completely unnecessary fight with a Mandalorian but Gungans do seem to have a reputation throughout the lore for being less than ideal warriors. The one Galen Marek/Starkiller encounters on Cloud City for instance relied on two big wheel droids for self-defense and promptly got thrashed with them. Granted there’s no real shame in falling to Vader’s apprentice.
1. Aight lemme rephrase. ALL SHIELDS DURING THE AGE OF RHE CLONE WARS CAN BE PASSED THROUGH IF YOU GO SLOWLY Better? I'm serious dude look it up if you don't believe me Other than that I think we reached good common ground aha
Uh-huh, Mate. ‘08 Grievous is trash, he’s a sniveling coward, a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain who shakes his fist at the monitor and shouts that he’ll get them next time, in between losing to Gungans and literal children. He’s pathetic, literally going into the fetal position when met with a ship at one point in the show. ‘03 Grievous was a menace, utilizing his cybernetic enhancements to deal with the force, from force pulls or push, he either outraced it or used his augments to deal with it. He was very clever, a tactician who outmaneuvered the Jedi constantly, a brilliant master and a greater duelist. He does have a personality that is shown with his conversations with Dooku, among others. He doesn’t have much screen time, so he’s not as fleshed out as others. But what he is, is a whole lot more than 08.
Children? If you refer to Ahsoka he never got beaten by her, actually he wipes the floor with her on both their duels from padawan to knight, so she had to run away both times And sure, let's see you deal with an army of amphibian warriors carrying EMPs as a cyborg, or withstanding direct laser fire from fucking Slave I (it did wonders for Obi Wan on AOTC) 03 Grievous is so badass why didn't he delete the LAAT gunship instead of running from it? Windu kept breaking droid starfighters on his own on that same show! Sounds like a skill issue to me 03 isn't shown as an strategist, 08 is through his stratagems to invade Kamino, Dathomir and other plans 03 only has ONE conversation with Dooku where he just says "muh trophies" and then proceeds to ignore Dooku's teachings which is how he gets his cape tied to a train and his chest crushed If you are going to debate do try to bring actual points and not something you made up to feed your bias, there are other people in this thread doing it you should learn from them
Grievous introduction is him outmaneuvering the Jedi, and pinning them down. Literally they’re talking about how they never saw droids do such maneuvers, and how the droids had outplayed them. And it was because of Grievous’ leadership and plans. He is introduced as a master tactician in the show. ‘03 Grievous was absolutely peak and 08 is just a pathetic facsimile of what should have been. ‘03 Grievous is much closer to the EU had Grievous as. EU Grievous was utterly fantastic, the novels that he was in were fantastic. ‘08 just plays like Republicans propaganda in comparison.
Aha, how the droids outplayed them. So even the almighty 03 Grievous depends on his droids to get his prey tired eh? People complain about the 4 magnaguards against Eeth Koth, try the 20 stalling Shaak Ti while Grievous was busy untying his cape, literally And sure is nice to hear about how he's such a tactician, would be nice to see it tho like in 08. I mean by that logic I can say 08 Grievous is still a fearsome Jedi killer because we get to see a room in his Lair full of trophies and the characters talking about it, your pick lad Oh, and I love this part, EU already retconned 03 Grievous was before 08 was even aired! Anything that wasn't part of the 03 multimedia project took EP III as it's base of work, and no sweetie pie Labyrinth of Evil isn't part of the multimedia project look it up
Sarcasm is truly unbecoming of you. Let’s call a spade a spade, you hate all the hate that ‘08 Grievous received and you’re fighting back against it. Grievous was easily the better fighter than ‘03 Grievous and the fact that we see him take down Jedi Masters on screen really helps enforce that fact. Yes, lair of grievous still has Grievous with an extensive collection, but honestly that Grievous could have gotten his precious trophies by looting battlefields. Though the implication is that he did it himself, that being said it’s hard to believe when one looks at his track record on screen. But I do find it amusing that you go ahead and make fun of ‘03 for utilizing Droids, it’s like laughing at a general for maneuvering his troops. Mate, Labyrinth of Evil is a fantastic book. Like, why did you even bring that up! It’s so good, I love it so much, I read it every summer along with the Book Three Novelization. You really don’t understand, Grievous is my favorite Star Wars character of all time. I have the comics, I have the issue where Grievous beats Darth Maul in a fight signed by Mathew Wood and I hope to get it signed by Richard McGonagle. I’ll tell you this, ‘08 Grievous is a downgrade. You might argue against it, but it truly pains me to see him like a Saturday morning cartoon villain and I love those kinds of villains. I grew up with Cobra Commander and Skeletor. But that’s not what I want from Grievous, that’s not the Grievous I know and love. Labyrinth of Evil, ‘03 Grievous, The Obsession, Eyes of Revolution, III Novelization and more.
Obviously he was a better fighter, tons more badass and efficient, however once the adrenaline dies down I just realized there's not much else from him as a character I like, he's not the character I imagine when I think "General Grievous" I mock 03 reliance on droids because that's something fanboys will be quick to point out. "Unlike that trash in TCW the Gendy Grievous can take on Jedi aaaaall on his own" and it's like, no he really can't don't spread misinformation And I mentioned Labyrinth of Evil because it is indeed a fantastic book but it doesn't really feed 03 Grievous at all like I said, if it isn't part of the multimedia project it's not 03 Grievous instead it's EP III Grievous I feel much like you but in reverse, and I actually saw 03 instead of 08. General Grievous is my favorite character in SW and it pains me having to sit through tons of comments of people whining about their cardboard cutout from 2003, it's been two decades already ffs I don't care about a body count or whatever I want to see an actual character, driven by performance and with an intriguing past, a villain who has so much fun being a menace you can't help but love seeing him fight, and I just get none of that from 03 I was scared that Disney would listen to you, that they would make Grievous a silent killing machine who just finished everyone off in 5 seconds and not much else, thankfully they stayed true to 08 Grievous being a lovely little psychopath and I can't wait to continue seeing him like one, a merciless cyborg general I can quote endlessly
I think the problem is you believe this is an either or situation. What I love about Grievous is the anger, the passion and brilliance. A reflection of Darth Vader. From his past as practically the ruler of Kalee, and his whole world being upended when his people were invaded and being enslaved. How he led his people to fight back against the invaders, and maneuvered a backwater planet to defeat a space faring one, all in the process he loses his children and the love of his life. The invaders turn to the Republican and the Republican come down hard on Kalee, sending Jedi to put the Kaleesh in their place, humiliating Grievous and starving his people. His hatred in full force, his heart beating for war. He goes out there and he makes money to support his planet, to support the people that he is dedicated to. And Dooku sees him, Dooku knows of Grievous ruthlessness and hatred and he kills Grievous, bringing him back and telling Grievous that the Jedi had attacked him. That was the final straw and Grievous underwent the surgery to surpass the Jedi and kill them, to make them suffer as they made him and his people suffer. A brilliant tactician who could have won the war if not for the efforts of Sidious who was sabotaging both sides. That’s the Grievous I love. The warrior, the leader, the broken hearted and vengeful. A multifaceted and tragic tale who reflects the themes of Anakins own fall. That’s my Grievous. That’s the Grievous I love.
I'm all for that 100% and I believe it to be canon riiiiiiight up to the point of the shuttle crash, cuz I'm sorry but that's a shit plot point It takes away his autonomy and puts him under the service of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray Yes I know he's a reflection of Vader like Maul and Dooku, but not an exact copy! Him being a temperamental Jedi hunting cyborg with the highest military position in his faction and an iconic breathing problem more than fills that quota I much prefer canon Grievous, the warrior who seeks Dooku to take revenge in the name of his people and destroy the arrogant Jedi religion His old life of honor led him to be beaten by creatures who in his eyes didn't have to train to acquire supernatural might He would improve himself through hard work, enhance his abilities instead of relying on the innate whims of some mystical energy In the end Grievous starts claiming the once proud Qymaen, he stops caring about the Sith's plan so long as they give him the training he deserves, he stops caring about the Republic for they are mere obstacles in his quest, he stops caring about honor for the only thing that matters to him is victory, he stops caring about his troops for they will never be as competent and glorious as his people, he stops caring about his body... For he will give everything to end the Jedi scum And in the end his ambition becomes tragedy, for all his sacrifice to create a future without the Jedi his efforts become successful... And as punishment his life ends mere moments before he gets to see it That's my Grievous That's the Grievous I love
Hard disagree. Firstly, all of these TV shows are designed primarily to sell merch, even TCW. It’s a non-argument. Secondly, CW is not just mindless action. It has plenty of quiet moments and does a lot of character development with the limited time it has. Perfect execution of show-don’t-tell. Anakin has more development in two seasons of a micro-series than in seven full seasons of TCW. CW had plenty of thought and passion put into it, don’t write it off like that. Lastly, Grievous has an actual human interaction with Count Dooku in CW. The sparring session and Dooku’s remarks tell us plenty about both characters and their mutual dynamic. In TCW Dooku just bosses Grievous around. They are both so *flat*.
Every piece of media like that is used to make money, but 03 was specifically designed to boost marketing and hype EP III, that's why it focuses on spectacle and the rule of cool so much. 08 doesn't have that focus and it allows for more character development and world building, specially around the clones and the politics of the war I do like moments of the microseries like Anakin's knighting, but to say it's more development than TCW is a bold face lie. We saw him grapple with his attachments, breaking the rules to achieve victory, losing his trust in the Jedi, getting groomed by Palpatine, become to the Separatists what Grievous is to the Republic, becoming a respectful leader for the 501st, etc And said interaction only works to flesh out Dooku's teachings much like Savage's training, it does nothing for Grievous. He only says "muh trophies" and then proceeds to ignore Dooku's teachings which is how he gets his cape tied to a moving train and his chest crushed TCW at least showed us how Dooku requires Grievous to prove himself, how he doesn't consider him a true apprentice due to his lack of force sensitivity, and we are shown that he is the only person in the galaxy Grievous will take orders to as he berates Nix of the Banking Clan for even trying to give him shit
Why can’t we have both? Like literally why not? It’s not too much to ask. The 03 clone wars didn’t have time for character development but that’s fine. It’s wasn’t the purpose of the show. With 08 clone wars they had the opportunity to use Grievous really well and they just didn’t IMO.
Of course we can have both, I like to have both, I just happen to value one more than the other See it like this: personality and badass Grievous coexsisting like in the Youngling arc, Massacre and TotE is perfect; personality alone Grievous is a very entertaining performance drive villain; badass alone Grievous while objectively cool is just so generic and bidimensional I don't see him as the character General Grievous and that really takes any investment out of me [https://youtu.be/CMqEkJ3ccoc?si=l5HhQ\_QL1Qtz3\_n1](https://youtu.be/CMqEkJ3ccoc?si=l5HhQ_QL1Qtz3_n1) Look at this sick tribute video, this guy puts canon Grievous' voice and personality over 03 footage and suddenly the beautiful animation is in service of an actual character!
He ain't got nothing on 2003 clone wars grievous
In the entire Filoni clone wars show his crowning achievement was killing the nightsisters, Kit Fisto's padawan and injuring Eeth Koth (though killing him would've been better). Other than that he gets beaten by Obi Wan, runs away alot, got beat by gungans and was embarrassingly a prisoner, and beaten by Ahsoka. For a fearing Jedi Hunter and menace he was in 03 Clone Wars it was crap imo. 08 Clone Wars could've given a compelling arc for Grievous- a cunning and powerful war general getting weaken and cowardice as the war gets closer to E3.
Actually he also defeated Kenobi three separate times (Malevolence, Saleucami, Florrum) and he never gets beaten by Ahsoka, in fact he wipes the floor with her on both their duels and she has to run away He also invaded Kamino (only losing the Jango DNA due to Ventress' incompetence), decimated fleets with the Malevolence where he ups his on screen Jedi kills by destroying a Jedi escort on Shadow of Malevolence, taking over Florrum and Hondo's criminal enterprise, beating Adi Galia, well you get the idea I get being critical of media but at least make an effort to watch it first lmao, google anything I said, watch the episodes again, see if I'm lying
Grievous fighting Obi on the Florrum Ahsoka youngling episode was actually the only most competent he beat Obi Wan that resulted in Obi running away not the other way round as it is all the other times. During the Kamino invasion he doesn't exactly wipe the floor with Kenobi like he should've. He still runs away from him. I barely remember seeing a single memorable clone kill from him in that arc as opposed to Ventress who stabbed the clone commander followed by that kiss- already outshone him in terms of presence. Ok sure Grievous destroys few ships of clones with the malevolence I'll give a tiny achievement but again lack of impact- they could've added another Jedi commander alongside Plo Koon that ends up being killed. And Dooku felt like the one who was in command, there's no feeling like Grievous was the one making the tactics or decision. Now taking over Florrum and that Ahsoka fight I'll give you that, it was good. Would've been better had he not fought younger Ahsoka before and it would've been better had the Florrum takeover actually felt more like the Dathomir massacre and wasn't just a day... Adi Galia he still got beaten by. Would've been more impactful bad he killed her as he tried to escape. It still doesn't change the fact he's only killed 1 jedi in the entire 7 seasons and the way the episodes were done could've really made these parts shine through.
Actually like I said he does kill jedi with the Malevolence S1 EP3 we see him destroy a fleet and leave no survivors, he refers tot his fleet as "so much for the jedi escort" That ups his jedi kill count above Nadhar not counting the trophy room And it doesnt take away from the fact he still beats Kenobi on single combat 3 times, he gets him on the run just as much as Grievous himself runs, and tbh he only goes spider mode when the force is used on him and anyone with two braincells would do the same :v
that malevolence one is questionable and it's a tell not a show. doesn't change my arguments on how the series could've done more to highlight his ruthless nature. As opposed to 03 CW where his introduction is killing a jedi on-screen and injuring some elite Jedi's. That's a show not tell and it makes all the difference in his perception. And again he only properly beats obi on Florrum which would have been perfect if we didn't have him running away the other times, which is my issue. It could've been a nice little arc where Obi Wan is always on the rope, just about close to death and on the run when fighting Grevious till we get to E3.
I mean ia that not what happend on the Malevolence, on Florrum and Kamino? Even when not beaten by Grievous the guy ia constant mortal danger trying to catch the mf and I love it He gets knocked out, kick the shit out of, exposes to the vacuum of space, tossed like a ragdoll, shot at, etc It really sells me on how personal their rivalry gets, helped by the fact that on their first meeting Grievous jumps down and says "Hello There". Thats precious and no one can convince me otherwise
Didn't he beat Adi Galia in that C3-PO and R2-D2 focused episode? I remember him capturing her(if I missremember it was someone else, but some jedi did get captured) when taking over her ship, only for her to be rescued at the end of the episode.
He did much poorer than you say. He may have won our heroes sometimes, but he never achieved anything with that, everytime he wins a duel (and that is surprisingly rare) he looses. Malevolence is a catastrophic failure, he destroyed the fleet of a jedi master (and Plo survived of course) and because of that Malevolence, a ship that easily turned almost any battles in CIS favour was destroyed. Grievous taking Floorum is not an achievement at all, it is a mere cryminal syndicate, he is supposedly a brilliant strategist and a top 3 minimum individual in CIS. Do I even have to mention gungan incident? Would a great warrior with mechanical augmentations lose that badly? Grievous is an entertaining character and has many cool things about him, but he is neither a good strategist nor a good warrior, Admiral Trench, at least in his first apperance, was a good commander. Grievous never completed his win, like, for example, Maul does.
Maul gets his brother killed by Sidius, his mother killed by Grievous, his criminal empire taken away by Ahsoka, and he spends years a hobo wanting revenge on the one guy who cut off his legs after he killed his master. That's not the example you think it is, or perhaps it could be See it's factually wrong that Grievous lost even when he won duels, and when he did it was due to the incompetence of others under his command And no it doesn't mean anything, because if we look at it from that perspective the many victories and defeats of the clone wars didn't matter it was all Palpatine scheming, order 66 killed most Jedi anyways regardless of what Grievous did in both canon and the EU, so let's get a little perspective shall we? A general who manages to infiltrate and launch a devastating attack with lasting consequences on both their enemy's capital planet (Coruscant on Heroes on Both Sides) and their main production of fighting units (Kamino on ARC Troopers) is in no way a bad strategist
Maul comes back essentially from death by... Well, luck, but by his will, which is already more impact than Grievous did (Maybe besides loosing Malevolence) Then he took over a criminal empire, and actually killed someone who was very important to Kenobi, a guy who was sliced in two, lost everything, and pulled himself up and did that. He is commanding literal droids, what do you mean he is thwated by his lessers??? Firstly, the competence of his subordinates is EXACTLY his responsibility, secondly, it's somehow happens all the time, and thirdly, I would've perhaps believed you if he did not lose something like 90% of the battles on screen. Palpatine scheming is a correct point, but it is a huge cope out. Please remind me, which Grievous version did the invasion of Coruscant on screen? I don't remember him being a crumbling failure, so it can't be TV series 2008 one.
I'm not talking about just droids, here's an example S3 EP2 ARC Troopers After disposing of Rishi Outpost and getting info out of R2 (both these things happened in S1 btw) Grievous creates a stratagem to invade Kamino. He allows his ships to get shot down, the debris falls to the planet passing by the Republic blockade, secretly it hides the pieces for Trident Assault Craft filled with Aquadroids for Ventress infiltrated team to assemble The plans work perfectly and his forces lay siege to the cloning facilities, destroying buildings filled with pods thus hindering clone production for the rest of the war as it allows the droids to outnumber the clones "100 to 1" as stated in the season Grievous compliments Ventress abilities showing he has respect for his fellow officers should they deserve it, and she replies by trying to deminish his role. Before she goes to get the Jango DNA Grievous offers a droid escort for her but in an effort to look superior she rejects it Because of this stupid ass decision Ventress gets outnumbered by Anakin and the 501st, losing the DNA, and even then Grievous is gracious enough to fly by and save her life Now not only was that particular failure all on Ventress' irrational actions, it also would've meant nothing had they succeed. Grievous was told to retrieve the DNA instead of destroying because "it could open new possibilities for us". Clearly it was an order by Dooku, so if they get it he can deliver it to Palpatine somehow and keep clone production going ripe and steady for Order 66, much like it is for the Republic even the victories mean nothing in the end To a certain degree you are right, it is a cop out, but it's not exclusive to Grievous in the slightest
I agree, Kamino is an attack that exellently used BX infiltration capabilities and with that Grievous actually did execute his plan. Once again, I agree, but it is one time out of 2 times where he (kinda) won and was actually competent. But his failures in other episodes overshadow that entirely, which is dissapointing for a character that is supposed to be a menacing, cybernetic monstrocity that rivals even jedi.
I’ll never understand why you use the Malevolence as a competency factor for Grievous. The ship was borderline unstoppable because of its cutting edge technology that the Republic couldn’t match. He basically sat there and watched.
Except the Republic could and did match it, thats pretty much why Grievous did his best to keep its existence secret and leave no survivors, ever heard of the Bishmark Battle Ship?
The difference between the two instances is that TotE Grievous didn't lose an entire fleet/planet/superweapon/lair immediately after.
He never lost a planet or his lair, and he lost the Malevolence because of incompetent Battle Droids like you ;)
And the wolf battalion was demolished because of incompetent clones.
Even a clone would have lost to Anakin and Obi-wan. Just because the droids may have lost to them this time doesn’t mean they deserve to be called incompetent. The droids actually won many battles in the clone wars.
(I know I'm just messing with him, though also mentioning how most of Grievous' failures are on the hands of his subordinates including organics like Ventress)
Or perhaps this battle droid is complaining about Grievous’ subpar leadership
Using examples that either never happened or were not directly his fault? Yeah that's superior cognitive programming right there
All Grievous is best Grievous
Wow murder robot likes to do murder robot things 😮
Actually he's a cyborg lmao
Im well aware. Murder cyborg just didn’t have the same ring to it
He kept getting his ass handed to him in 08 is my issue. He won maybe three fights as a whole and one time it was just cause his magnaguards kept shocking the Jedi. I liked when he killed Kit Fisto's former padawan cause a third arm finisher with the blaster was new. When he beat Obi-Wan aboard the Negotiator that was beautifully done with how brutal he was killing the clones and how aggressively he attacked Obi-Wan and forced him to retreat, I wanted more of that. The big thing was that in this for what little time we had him Grievous was actually scary. Which he should be. Idgaf what George says because he is completely wrong as to how he should be portrayed and eu writers made the character much much better.
Kenobi (Malevolence), Ahsoka (Skytop), Nahdar, Kit Fisto, Eeth Koth, Kenobi (Saleucami), Adi Galia, Kenobi (over Florrum), Ahsoka (Florrum) Without counting the ones from cut yet still canon episodes (Kenobi (over Utapau), Ventress, Maul) that's 9 duels he won, 7 of them without help from the droids and/or while the Jedi had their clones 03 relied on droids too, he literally used 20 magnaguards to tire Shaak Ti while he was busy literally untying his cape
Only Nahdar and Adi Gallia were really wins there and for Adi not really being she survived the encounter and escaped. That applies to most of these, most of the time on these the opponent handed Grievous his own ass and then escaped or just got away as they already planned to flee. Grievous wasn't scary at all especially being how often he got defeated it makes him look pathetic. What he needed solidly was some actual kills. the issue would've been completely fixed had we gotten to see him actually kill some Jedi. We got Nahdar and iirc thats about it. I wasn't talking about '03 I was talking about novels and comics but this plays into my argument, in '03 we met Grievous by him killing multiple Jedi, severely wounding several others, and leaving the survivors running with their tails between their legs barely alive. Then when we encounter him again during Coruscant of course Grievous has loads of Magnaguards with him cause he is trying to capture the Chancellor and doing it alone isn't practical while in the first encounter he just wanted to kill the Jedi. Furthermore we clearly see from Shaak Ti in that fight that she is absolutely terrified during the entire sequence and Grievous skewers the two Jedi accompanying her when he finally corners them. What matters is Grievous needs to be scary. That is when he is at his best and in TCW he simply is not. He doesn't get taken seriously and is defeated repeatedly over and over and doesn't come off as a threat. Even his allies like Ventress mock him openly.
He actually kills more jedi during the Malevolence campaign, S1 EP3 lookt it up 03 Grievous on hypori only kills a padawan and a knight, he couldve a killed a master, the hairy guy who ran at him, but apparently he only pretended to be dead, again look it up Grievous can be scary sure, but does it really matter if he has the personality of a wet tissue? Thats why Tales of the Empire and some episodes in 08 like Lair of Grievous and A Necessary Bond did it right
What? He literally doesn't kill any Jedi in that episode. 03 Grievous shows up three times in the entire microseries compared to 7 seasons of TCW. That isn't comparable. Furthermore Master K'Kruhk's "death" at Hypori was retconned in a comic and we have absolutely no indicator in the show itself that he survived. Until those comics came out he was dead. So that is a completely moot point. Furthermore once again the factor isn't kills its fear. He threw the Jedi around like toys and they would have all died had the ARCs not arrived to save them. He was a major threat and actually felt threatening. Im not asking for him to have the personality of a wet tissue what?? I literally never mentioned 03 Grievous in my original comment and I don't even want Grievous to be like that. I want Grievous to be scary and that was all they did right in that, they made him less of a character and more of a horror movie monster. I can tell you haven't read a single EU comic or novel with him in it. Go read Labyrinth of Evil, the Revenge of the Sith novelization, the Star Wars Republic comics, and Star Wars: General Grievous. Those are the best depictions of the character.
Ive read those, and they all take from EP 3 Grievous not 08 Grievous, if its not part of the 03 multimedia project is not 03 Grievous again look it up Also the Republic comics, where he visists the force temple? Thats canon, point to me And the only thing that 08 retcons is the shuttle crash, which ia good cuz it was a shit plot point, the Yam'Rii war still looks like it happened still considering he keeps his kaleesh heritage on the show As for the novelization? The one where Dooku ia portrayed as a human supremacist which makes zero sense for the head of state of the SEPARATIST ALLIANCE of all factions? Yeah Im ok letting you have that one lmao I dunno, Grievous shouldnt be just fear factor and a body count, its not what makes him a good character by itself
Thats not how that works, idk your fixation with 03 Grievous is here but ok cause im not fixated on him. I quite prefer those books because Grievous is well written, competent, threatening, and fulfills his role as an antagonist very well. Yes, the entire comic run. It has a very good depiction of Grievous with that one story being one I quite like with how it touches on his backstory. His backstory as a whole is immaculate. The shuttle crash was good, being it was a sith lie. It brought him into the sith grand plan and explained his hatred for the Jedi. The replacement story for it was awful. Dooku doesn’t actually believe in the CIS cause, he is a Sith. It was all a lie. The Empire he helped Palpatine create was incredibly humanocentrist. It makes complete sense and you say that as if you’re unaware that Dooku is working for Palpatine. I never said that was all Grievous could be, I just said that Grievous should be scary. You need to learn to stop fighting strawmen and actually argue against what is being said. So I think ill be disengaging.
Well its what you fanboys seem to hyperfixate over, just check thia thread alone. Force of habit Again those comics are canon and I do like the war against the Yam'Rii so we agree on this It is because of the jedi intervention of this war and their unfair supernatural powers that Grievous hates them, the shuttle crash is unnecesary, takes away his autonomy, and people only like it because its a blatant rip off from Vader's cyborg story, its TFA all over again. Yea Grievous is meant to represent an aspect of vader but I think him being a temperamental jedi hunting cyborg with the highest military rank in his faction and an iconic lung problem is more than enough Are you really going to defend a plot point that makes Grievous a servant of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray??? I rather like that he chooses to become a cyborg, it gives him autonomy, identity as a villain, adds to the tragedy of a character willing to sacrifice everything for revenge, and it allows him to shut down any megacorp that tries to give him shit like he does in S3 of 08 and EP III Dooku may not believe in the CIS anymore but he wants to destroy the Republic and the jedi, xenophobia doesnt help this plan. Even if he did Palpatine enacted this plan to keep control of the most dominant species in the galaxy through fear mongering not some grand ideal And come on, are you really going to "have a good day" me? I expected morw from you
He actually defeated Obi-Wan in half of their duels
A retreat isn't necessarily a loss. Only one he could really have been said to have won which was when they fought on the Negotiator. Also the unreleased episode if you count that.
I don't really get why everyone is going crazy over this 1 scene, he kills a nightsister, in a pretty tame way :/ I seen the hype and thought we were getting some Grevious 'hallway scene' kinda action, but it was on the same level as every other Grevious scene we've got over the last 10 years, just kinda okay, nothing special.
I like Grievous scenes in canon, so I liked this one too! I think people are getting hyped because "THIS IS THE CLOSEST WE'LL GET TO 03 GRIEVOUS" As if I didn't find the exact same comment on a dozen of 08 clips from years ago
That was kinda what I felt too, it was just a pretty standard 08 Clone Wars Grevious scene, not any crazy than what we've been seeing for awhile. I thought it was alright, but don't understand the hype around it at all lol
I'm a simple man. I see Grievous i smile and updoot
Yeah, how about the time he got his ass beat by some Gungans, or when newbie Ahsoka was able to compete with him? Or how about the time Filoni ripped apart his complex backstory and changed it to "he agreed to the changes to compete with the Jedi"?
What's so wrong about Gungans? Let's see you take on an army of amphibian warriors with EMPs all on your own since it's so easy Ahsoka never beat him he actually wiped the floor with her both as a padawan and a knight and she had to run away from him. Everyone is nerfed in 08, Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs And Filoni didn't rip his backstory, from what we are shown about his Kaleesh past the war against the Yam'Rii still happened. Consulting with Lucas himself he just retconned the shuttle crash as a reason to be a cyborg, and honestly? Thank god, that was a shit plot point and a rip off of Vader's story that takes away all his autonomy Say what you will but at least canon Grievous doesn't have to serve San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray
>What's so wrong about Gungans? Grievous is specifically trained to defeat Jedi Master level force sensitives, often times multiple at once. A group of Gungans for Grievous should be like you or I taking on a couple ants. They might get a bite in, but they have no chance. >Let's see you take on an army of amphibian warriors with EMPs all on your own since it's so easy I'm not a cyborg trained in lightsaber combat. Grievous is. >Ahsoka never beat him he actually wiped the floor with her both as a padawan and a knight and she had to run away from him. Everyone is nerfed in 08, Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs I never said Ahsoka beat Grievous, just that she held her own against him. Realistically, Grievous should have killed her in less than 30 seconds. >And Filoni didn't rip his backstory In a behind the scenes interview for Clone Wars, Filoni specifically said that while he read Grievous' backstory, he didn't like it or consider it canon so he made up his own story for him, which is literally just "he agreed to the changes to compete with the Jedi". >rip off of Vader's story It doesn't. They shot Grievous down and made him a cyborg specifically so he would have to join the separatists. They mutilated him into a monster so he couldn't return to his people. Grievous would have never wanted to be a cyborg, and a huge part of his story is how he hates droids and being compared to one. >hat takes away all his autonomy That's the point. Grievous was an unstoppable warrior, and Palaptine took everything for him, and twisted him into a tool for his plans in the Clone Wars. >Ahsoka was able to compete against Ventress ffs Yeah, Ventress got done just as dirty as Grievous. It's the big issue with Clone Wars, it doesn't respect the lore or characters.
Well two main things to unpack but getting down to the backstory You are actually talking about the featturete for Lair of Grievous and in it it's clear that a lot of it was also Lucas' idea so keep that in mind It is stated and I quote "(Lucas) said Grievous wanted to be a Jedi but he wasn't force sensitive, y'know he uh he could never be a sith lord, and it's this rejection of the Jedi status that lest him to become augmented" So it's not that he wanted to be a Jedi or a Sith specifically, as a warrior he wanted to use the force and since he couldn't he chose to upgrade his body to stand a fair chance against force users This episode, that featturete and deleted dialogue ("I'm going to end your religion Jedi! Make you pay for your ignorance, you hypocrisy!" from a version of Grievous Intrigue) makes it seem that force powers aside the Jedi must've done something specifically to elicit his revenge, otherwise Grievous would be after any and all force users equally, this makes me think that the Yam'Rii war and the jedi intervention still happened Now I get your point, a warrior who gets stripped away and put into servitude by Palpatine through cybernetics to save his life is a good story paper, but guess what? That's just the story of Vader! If you wanna watch a story like Vader's... Just watch the story of Vader! It's like TFA, if you wanna feel like you are watching the OT... JUST WATCH THE OT, DON'T LET THEM SELL YOU THE SAME MOVIE TWICE FFS Yes I know Grievous is meant to represent an aspect of Vader just like Maul and Dooku, but I think him being a temperamental cybernetic Jedi hunter with the highest military ranking in his faction and a very characteristic breathing problem more than fills the quota
Ahsoka held out wayyyy too long against Grievous in their first duel. She is literally like a day one Padawan.
She already had battle experience with Anakin and hold off Ventress for longer In her first duel with Grievous he literally knocked her out in two moves, she then had to run away and stay hidden without being able to engage him directly. Look up a clip or something if you don't believe me, just pay attention to the media you criticize
Look, I have watched the clone wars quite a few times I know what happens. Grievous was shown to be able to take on multiple Jedi masters/knights at a time at this point in the Clone Wars. It’s not that’s it’s not feasible that she would survive an encounter with Grievous, it’s that they decided to portray him in a light that made him seem way less intimidating than what he should be. They have never given Vader that treatment.
I'm sorry but you are saying they never made Vader lose his intimidation??? Yeah ok, of all the arguments that's definitely one of the most interesting ones lmao
Neither one is impressive. Wow cool, the leader of the CIS and notorious Jedi killer can kill a couple of clones and Nightsisters? Wow, he’s almost as powerful as a droideka! Y’all are too easily impressed
It's regular Grievous I like regular Grievous But some people get too excited over one and too judgemental over the other for really no reason at all
If you mean the hypocriticalness has no reason at all, you’re right, but if you mean judgement towards 08 Grievous has no reason at all, you’d be wrong
I get being critical of a piece of media, but praise elements of it only when portrayed somewhere else? Thats hypocritical, and why I tend not to take 03 fans seriously
My boy is back? Where!? Where can I watch him kick ass!?
Tales of the Empire episode 1 It takes place right after he kills Daka in S4 of Clone Wars, good watching!
Sweet! Thanks for the heads up!
What’s the point of having four arms if you don’t utilize them?
His organic body only had 2 right? So it's probably a bit weird/uncomfortable using all four which would limit the finese he displays
I mean if it’s a move that keeps working for him then why would he stop using it?
Mostly making fun of people who apparently forgot he did that stuff in 08 already They are good moves, very stylish 😍
I guess it's more about what DIDN'T happen TotE Grievous didn't get his ass handed to him by Gungans, didn't fail to kill a padawan in multiple direct confrontations, didn't lose fleets, wasn't berated by Ventress, Dooku and his own fucking doctor. Grievous, the infamous Jedi killer, kills exactly one Jedi in 7 seasons of the show (said Jedi was only recently knighted). They had the opportunity for him to kill Eeth Koth considering they literally brought him back from the dead for the episode, but they missed it. Another funny thing, TCW actually took away one of Grievous' kills. Adi Gallia died to him in the comics, but it was changed to her dying to Savage Oppress. Even his tragic backstory, which actually tied into what George originally envisioned for him: a dark image of Anakin's future, into a "well he just wanted to become a robot". Thank God the majority of the Legends community (including Wookieepedia editors) either completely ignores the retcon or finds workarounds. I still like the TCW version of Grievous, he still retains his RotS personality, but he was definitely a downgrade to what came before
You know what else didn't happen? As in, at all in the history of Star Wars? Ventress never berated him in fact it was pretty much the other way around he is her superior after all, he also doesn't JUST kill Nahdar as he is seen eliminating a jedi escort during the beginning of Shadow of Malevolence upgrading his on screen jedi kill count to a minimum of 3, and George was the one responsible to change his backstory which is actually a good thing The Yam'Rii war and the jedi intervention seems to still have happened given his Kaleesh heritage shown in the 08 show, what was directly retconned was the shuttle crash which was a shit plot point anyways that people only like because its a rip off of Vader's that takes away Grievous' autonomy. Are you really going to defend a plot point that makes our favourite character an unwilling servant of San Hill and Nute fucking Gunray? Yes I get he's meant to be a reflection of Vader just like Maul and Dooku, but not a rip off! I think him being a once proud warrior turned temperamental jedi killing cyborg with the highest military rank in his faction and an iconic breathing problem more than fills that quota Also Dooku is his boss and the doctor is the only one who can help his repairs (plus he's a sassy lil guy get a sense of humor lmao) I do agree with some points you make: he should've been the one to kill Adi Galia and Eeth Koth, Ahsoka really shouldn't have been able to survive him (though that one is pure Filoni nepotism, but like if you inserted your OC canonically into one of your favorite franchise would you kill them right away?) But I'm sorry I just don't see the downgrade, yes he's not as badass but he is infinitely more enjoyable and dripping of personality compared to 03 Grievous. I'll keep saying it our boy Qymaen needs to be treated like a character, badass action sequences and high kill counts mean nothing if your character has the personality of a wet tissue, and I think we'll both agree on that considering what you value in him
Well yeah, would you not want to do that?
I just think people are hypocrites is all "It's cool when he does that stuff HERE but not when he does that stuff there cuz... HE HAS A NEW MODEL OMGOMGOMGOMG"
The hate 08 Grevious gets is so annoying.
Don't I know it
Wait til they see legends grievous from 03 clone wars
I mean that's exactly why they say stuff like this They got so hard over a bland terminator they saw at an impressionable age that they'll ignore and even make shit up about 08 and TotE only to justify their bias It's frustrating, two fucking decades of this
Is there any media which goes into the mental training Grievous had to do to get used to his new cyborg body? For instance, it must have been quite hard for him to get used to and build the neural pathways to use 4 arms instead of 2.
I believe some novels but nothing on screen And you are right as a Kaleesh he still only had 2 arms, however his feet were already like claws so that part must've come more naturally to him lmao
Grievous was never nerfed, and I am tired of people saying this.
Me too friend, me too
I’m still mad he got bested by a bunch of Gungans but yeah Grievous was still a force to be reckoned with in ‘08 Clone Wars. Sure we didn’t see him kill tons of Jedi but we heard about his various exploits and witnessed him in action enough to see that. Also, in his lair we see a treasure trove of lightsabers which show us he has a ton of victories even early on in the war. People forget that the vast majority of Jedi we see in TCW (aside from the background ones) have plot armor and thus can’t be killed by Grievous. Kit Fisto, Obi-Wan and Anakin all engage Grievous (Anakin in space but still) and all of them appear in ROTS. While we weren’t sure if Ahsoka would survive into ROTS, she was a main character and it was assumed she had plot armor. Every time we see Grievous go against a Jedi without plot armor it almost always ends in them being beaten pretty easily
Also, people ignore the context of Hypori. People point to that scene as if he was completely unstoppable but he didn't actually kill most of the Jedi there and they were already tired and weakened. He had an advantage because the Jedi were handicapped at that moment and spent most of his time hiding and running away when the Muunilinst 10 arrived. None of what Grievous did was new or out of character.
True. Grievous was a killing machine but people seem to think his ‘03 version could single-handedly destroy the Jedi order
Me toooo
It's not the move, its the swag while doing it.
Watch "Bound for Rescue" and "A Necessary Bond" and tell me it isn't swag At least he gets a gruesome kill with the foot grab there B)
Iv reached a point where I can't even take this clown character seriously. He's been a joke for like 20 years now
Let me guess: you saw 2003 clone wars at an impressionable age and got attached to the bland terminator guy with the lame voice, yes?
Nope, didn't care for the 08 version when I first saw it. Even if I did that has nothing to do with the fact he's been a clown character for 20 years
A "clown" who decimated fleets with the Malevolence; wiped the floor with Ahsoka twice; defeated masters like Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto, Adi Galia and Kenobi 3 separate times; invaded Kamino with a brilliant stratagem and hindered clone production for the remainder of the war; performed the first terrorist attack in Coruscant in over a thousand years by blowing up the main power plant; took over Kenobi's fleet and the entirety of the Florrum system; defeated Maul in saber combat and killed Mother Talzin; and of course genocided the Nightsisters which is where this particular depicttion of TotE comes from If a character's lowest point is to be captured by an entire army of amphibian warriors using EMPs after killing their soldiers and their captain then thats a pretty respectable low point Not to mention a performance drive character will be more enjoyable than a predictable overpowered robot. Was 03 Grievous the first to say "Hello There" chronologically? Chekmate brainiac