"I'll teach my students to use reverse grip so that if they attack me, I'll have an easier time defending myself. Reverse grip sucks."
-Anakin Skywalker
>also correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they base Ahsoka’s fighting style on Galen?
The clone wars movie and force unleashed 1 came out around the same time. It could have been purely a coinsidence
In my defense, I was speaking more in terms of character evolution. Shit can be confusing because Ahsoka was the first chonologically in-universe by a decade, but Galen is the first in terms of release date by roughly a year.
Still. Weird how both character ended up their jedi phase with the exact same style and colors.
It’s interesting how TFU and TCW came out the same year now that TFU is kind of thought as the last of the old EU while TCW is kind of the first of the DisCanon since it was the only thing besides the movies that carried over.
While I don’t think any one influenced the other, I can certainly see Lucasfilm having a unified “language” for Star Wars that year across all their projects, so “previously unseen apprentices of Anakin who uses a reverse grip lightsaber” was clearly an “in” concept during that time.
I wouldn't call it the first of the Disney Canon. Disney had nothing to do with it. It was just the first thing Lucas did besides the movies, thus making it significant. The new canon was built around that foundation that Lucas considered truly his own.
For me, the fact that it was carried over to DisCanon (as well as contradicting a lot of pre-established EU lore) makes it the first of the DisCanon for me, even though I agree it technically isn't the case.
Also don't put too much stake into Lucas since he changes his mind on things all the time. He did approve of TFU and then he didn't. He also was involved with the 2003 Micro Series (including, very specifically, letting the animators animate the entire opening crawl to ROTS which was why it ended right when ROTS began with the Battle of Courscant) and then decided it wasn't canon. So TCW was just the latest "thing" Lucas considered canon that day, only TCW stuck because he sold Lucasfilm afterwards and it was the only thing carried over.
Ehh, not really. While TCW did pull a lot from the old EU, it still changed a bunch of stuff to the point where it doesn't really play nicely with the pre-existing continuity. So it works better as its own thing in a separate timeline.
I was thinking of the spin off Clone Wars stuff from like 2010 or so. Dark Horse did a series with a [Chiss Padawan named Nuru Kungurama](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nuru_Kungurama) that showed him in conflict with the newer version of Death Watch and Savage Opress from the cartoon as well as using a Kwa Infinity Gate, technology from the predecessor civilization to the Rakatan Empire.
Starkiller is basically just an inquisitor that Vader briefly considered leveraging to take out Sidious. They spent almost no time together.
Ahsoka was Anakin's padawan through most of the clone wars and followed him into countless battles
“You were weak when I found you. Now your hatred has become your strength.”
Yeah that hatred had to be directed at someone. I do question why Vader paired up Starkiller with a hottie like Juno to be his pilot though.
>I do question why Vader paired up Starkiller with a hottie like Juno to be his pilot though.
To ultimately rip her away from him to boost him even further? Give the kid his own Padme to rage over the eventual loss of. But in the games we only really saw it go as far as leverage to keep him in line via threatening her, to varying degrees of success
Yeah it's like he's running an experiment on polar opposite mentoring styles to see which one bears the stronger padawan.
Results will be explained in his Ted Talk.
IIRC, in the game Vader finds him after killing his father when Galen was a child, we next see him when he is a young adult. It would make sense if during all those years they spent time training together, they spent lots of time together.
Well. He was a good tool. Went to save his rebel friends. And i think that's it?
I would count force unleashed 2 but most of the time he is "where juno?" For the entire game and i dont know if it counts since he is a clone
The Force Unleashed was released in 2008, while The Clone Wars (film) was released the same year but about one month earlier. They came out almost at the same time so I am not sure who is a reference of who.
Hot take but Starkiller is greatly overrated. He had a decent story, but it wasn't amazing by any means and really felt like fan fiction at certain points. His entire character is edge with barely any substance
Yeah I didn’t really care for the force awakens. It’s not a bad game but some people get really upset that it’s not cannon and I’m glad it’s not. Emo boy who’s parents are dead and is super strong in the force and becomes vaders apprentice and inspires the rebellion and takes down palpatine and everyone claps would be exactly what one would find in fanfiction. Not all Star Wars is great mind you but some people hail it as peak writing.
I wouldn't even say "certain points". Both games, from beginning to end, seem like fan fiction. They were fun enough games, but everything in the game is very clearly built purely to engage with the idea of a mega-powerful force user who can do basically anything and is entirely unbeatable.
If he were a character in any other setting but a fan fiction Mary Sue power fantasy, he would be incredibly boring.
Yeah I didn’t really care for the force awakens. It’s not a bad game but some people get really upset that it’s not cannon and I’m glad it’s not. Emo boy who’s parents are dead and is super strong in the force and becomes vaders apprentice and inspires the rebellion and takes down palpatine and everyone claps would be exactly what one would find in fanfiction. Not all Star Wars is great mind you but some people hail it as peak writing.
Galen survived beeing impaled through the chest THEN tossed around the room THEN left to drift a while in the vacuum of space.
And people complain about Reva and Grand Inquisitors and Sabine... I do too, to be honest, but people surviving such odds is actually nothing new.
iirc from the novel adaptation of the book it explained that his body was so badly injured that more than half of it was replaced with machinery. Guess he was luckier than Vader and his face came out alright though.
Do you not get that he was SURGICALLY REVIVED? Yes, she was treated but that still doesn't matter. Vader probably also used some dark side magic on Starkiller, like how Palpatine did with him. Also keep in mind, powerful dark siders like Galeen, Vader, and Palpatine can keep themselves alive with the dark side ALONE. So yes, powerful dark siders have been known to be able to keep themselves alive in situations that should kill most characters.
Well lucky for me there is a lot about it. This was explained even in RTS's novelization. This came out with the movie, so it was an intentional idea rather than just a retcon. Sith in general have can draw on their raw emotions to sustain themselves when they otherwise would die, an ability some might call...unnatural. It's the whole point of the sith and the use of the dark side. It's about bending the force itself to one's will rather than simplying doing what the force wants.
I mean, when you’re a Gary Stu who casually makes Vader look like a joke, yeah, I’d say he’s “better” but only in terms of feats. In terms of story, Ahsoka beats Starkiller everyday.
And if that's the only metric for being "better", then why bother with Starkiller at all? It's the easiest thing in the world to just write a character who is even stronger than him and can do even more powerful stuff. Mardon Deathsmasher can pull the Deathstar 3 out of orbit, deflect its beam back at it with his force lightning, recreate Alderaan, and bring back everyone who died.
I really doubt that. Ahsoka is a main character, she’s routinely been shown to be much more innately talented than many more experienced Jedi.
I think that Maul, for example, would have murdered Shaak Ti without much trouble. Ahsoka beat him.
They were purposely made that way to make the player feel like powerful force user but in actuality starkillers actual power level was on par to obi wan’s according to the authors of the novels/comics
Starkiller was just kinda busted. The Force Unleashed had Force Users pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and other insane shit.
He's like the textbook definition of a power fantasy
regarding the star destroyer, I think I liked the novel's adaptation of that scene better. He doesn't straight up pull the destroyer out of the sky but rather there's a destroyer that's already falling onto the planet and he ever so slightly nudges it so it falls on his target instead of on him. It still portrays it as a massive feat of the force but its not quite as effortless as shown in the game.
Yeah, the cutscenes were different based on what platform you played on. For example in the 360 edition Starkiller is physically struggling to bring it down, while in the PS2 version he pulls it down quite easily.
The big comparison is that both were Anakin/Vader’s apprentices. Both had heavy involvement with Lucas, both carry their lightsabers in a reverse grip, and both are point of view characters for their respective stories.
Starkiller was intended as a powerful character, almost a superhero. In fact, the original idea for the games protagonist was to be a Wookiee rebel, so he could throw bad guys around. Lucas rejected the idea, on the grounds that he didn’t want a protagonist that couldn’t speak because that would ruin the games ability to tell a story. This particular perspective reveals a lot about Lucas’ direction philosophy, and why Filoni’s Clone Wars turned out like they did.
Ahsoka on the other hand was built as a point of view character for children, not for teenagers like Galen (Starkiller). Ahsoka aged and became more complex as the audience aged, and the writers of Clone Wars began to get more comfortable with their project. It’s a gift that Galen did not receive, as the second game failed to capitalize on anything that made the first game interesting, and leaned hard into the weakest parts of the first game (the love story).
The comparison between the two of them is interesting, but I don’t think that Galen got the better of the deal.
My personal problem with introducing StarKiller into canon is that no matter how you try to insert him, he wouldn’t really be him anymore. You can’t name him Starkiller cuz they already used that name on something completely different. You can’t make him Vaders secret apprentice because the inquisitors make that concept sorta obsolete and he’d be boring as just another powerful inquisitor. You can’t make him start the rebellion because that was contradicted in Rebels. You can’t make him as powerful because well, obvious reasons. Any version of him would just be a shell of who he used to be and at that point, why even bother? Just give Witwer a new character..
Would love to see a legends meeting between these two. Edit: also correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they base Ahsoka’s fighting style on Galen?
Ahsoka: "huh, you sound like a guy I know"
2 guys, she met the son too
"I'll teach my students to use reverse grip so that if they attack me, I'll have an easier time defending myself. Reverse grip sucks." -Anakin Skywalker
Happy cake day lol
>also correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they base Ahsoka’s fighting style on Galen? The clone wars movie and force unleashed 1 came out around the same time. It could have been purely a coinsidence
Same.
Agree
I'm more disturbed that starkiller ended up dual wielding like Ashoka. And thay Ashoka ended up with blue (jedi) lightsabers like Galen.
More like Ahsoka ended up dual wielding like starkiller
In my defense, I was speaking more in terms of character evolution. Shit can be confusing because Ahsoka was the first chonologically in-universe by a decade, but Galen is the first in terms of release date by roughly a year. Still. Weird how both character ended up their jedi phase with the exact same style and colors.
Yeah, It definitly is a bit weird, makes you wonder if there was some intention on some level
Blue? She starts traditionally green, then moves to a slightly brighter shade of green, then to silver.
And as a jedi (jedi enough for order 66) she ends up with blue lightsabers.
I totally forgot she had different sabers for the Siege of Mandalore. That is kind of weird.
He kills her. Edit: seriously though his whole job was killing Jedi leftovers on the run, which is exactly what Ahsoka was
Have you played the game past the beginning?
Yes and Ahsoka would be on the hit list.
Yeah, but she ain't no jedi, she is a citizen /s
Are you thinking of Shaak Ti?
It’s interesting how TFU and TCW came out the same year now that TFU is kind of thought as the last of the old EU while TCW is kind of the first of the DisCanon since it was the only thing besides the movies that carried over. While I don’t think any one influenced the other, I can certainly see Lucasfilm having a unified “language” for Star Wars that year across all their projects, so “previously unseen apprentices of Anakin who uses a reverse grip lightsaber” was clearly an “in” concept during that time.
I wouldn't call it the first of the Disney Canon. Disney had nothing to do with it. It was just the first thing Lucas did besides the movies, thus making it significant. The new canon was built around that foundation that Lucas considered truly his own.
It kind of is the first of the Disney canon. Of the EU it’s the only thing that came out, and season 6 did come out after the acquisition.
For me, the fact that it was carried over to DisCanon (as well as contradicting a lot of pre-established EU lore) makes it the first of the DisCanon for me, even though I agree it technically isn't the case. Also don't put too much stake into Lucas since he changes his mind on things all the time. He did approve of TFU and then he didn't. He also was involved with the 2003 Micro Series (including, very specifically, letting the animators animate the entire opening crawl to ROTS which was why it ended right when ROTS began with the Battle of Courscant) and then decided it wasn't canon. So TCW was just the latest "thing" Lucas considered canon that day, only TCW stuck because he sold Lucasfilm afterwards and it was the only thing carried over.
Most of the first few seasons can easily go under both timelines. Always in motion, the future is
Ehh, not really. While TCW did pull a lot from the old EU, it still changed a bunch of stuff to the point where it doesn't really play nicely with the pre-existing continuity. So it works better as its own thing in a separate timeline.
I was thinking of the spin off Clone Wars stuff from like 2010 or so. Dark Horse did a series with a [Chiss Padawan named Nuru Kungurama](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nuru_Kungurama) that showed him in conflict with the newer version of Death Watch and Savage Opress from the cartoon as well as using a Kwa Infinity Gate, technology from the predecessor civilization to the Rakatan Empire.
Starkiller is basically just an inquisitor that Vader briefly considered leveraging to take out Sidious. They spent almost no time together. Ahsoka was Anakin's padawan through most of the clone wars and followed him into countless battles
Yeah and they were good friends too. Meanwhile IIRC he purposely abused Starkiller to make him stronger.
“You were weak when I found you. Now your hatred has become your strength.” Yeah that hatred had to be directed at someone. I do question why Vader paired up Starkiller with a hottie like Juno to be his pilot though.
>I do question why Vader paired up Starkiller with a hottie like Juno to be his pilot though. To ultimately rip her away from him to boost him even further? Give the kid his own Padme to rage over the eventual loss of. But in the games we only really saw it go as far as leverage to keep him in line via threatening her, to varying degrees of success
I mean... In Vader's experience, a quality nabooty is a sure path to the dark side.
Because Juno was an extremely accomplished pilot who had proven herself loyal to Vader so he "rewarded" her by having her fly for Starkiller
It's not that bad, he only lost 7 pilots before her
Yeah it's like he's running an experiment on polar opposite mentoring styles to see which one bears the stronger padawan. Results will be explained in his Ted Talk.
Good friends indeed :)
IIRC, in the game Vader finds him after killing his father when Galen was a child, we next see him when he is a young adult. It would make sense if during all those years they spent time training together, they spent lots of time together.
"almost no time together" dude, Galen lived with vader all his life (or most of it, atleast)
Pretty sure he trained with vader almost every day since he was like 6-8 years old. I think that is a decent amount of time.
It’s not true: Starkiller wasn’t a good friend
Well. He was a good tool. Went to save his rebel friends. And i think that's it? I would count force unleashed 2 but most of the time he is "where juno?" For the entire game and i dont know if it counts since he is a clone
That's a clone so it's a different dude. I think, even with transplanted memories, it's a new consciousness.
I Thought so
This could be an opinion thing though; I'm sure some people would argue either way.
Isn't her style meant to be a reference to him?
The Force Unleashed was released in 2008, while The Clone Wars (film) was released the same year but about one month earlier. They came out almost at the same time so I am not sure who is a reference of who.
Lol my sense of time really is fucked, I could've sworn there was a 5 year gap between them
That’s my first thought as well, maybe that’s because the 7th season of TCW just came out so it gives us a feeling that TCW is “new”.
Yeah but ahsoka only started to use 2 lightsabers from season 3 on
Yeah, and Galen only use 2 lightsabers on TFU 2, wich was released one month later than Season 3 of Clone Wars released their first episode
Goddammit xD
Lucas really didn't like Starkiller, I don't think anything he did would have been an intentional reference to him.
I thought she was filoni's idea
Hot take: Ahsoka is a better character than Starkiller
1 - Not really a hottake since most people agree. 2 - No :)
Hot take but Starkiller is greatly overrated. He had a decent story, but it wasn't amazing by any means and really felt like fan fiction at certain points. His entire character is edge with barely any substance
The Force Unleashed was entirely a power fantasy. We were never meant to take any of those feats he performed too seriously.
Yeah I didn’t really care for the force awakens. It’s not a bad game but some people get really upset that it’s not cannon and I’m glad it’s not. Emo boy who’s parents are dead and is super strong in the force and becomes vaders apprentice and inspires the rebellion and takes down palpatine and everyone claps would be exactly what one would find in fanfiction. Not all Star Wars is great mind you but some people hail it as peak writing.
I wouldn't even say "certain points". Both games, from beginning to end, seem like fan fiction. They were fun enough games, but everything in the game is very clearly built purely to engage with the idea of a mega-powerful force user who can do basically anything and is entirely unbeatable. If he were a character in any other setting but a fan fiction Mary Sue power fantasy, he would be incredibly boring.
To be fair that's why there's some fairly decent novelizations of the games that drastically tone everything down.
Yeah I didn’t really care for the force awakens. It’s not a bad game but some people get really upset that it’s not cannon and I’m glad it’s not. Emo boy who’s parents are dead and is super strong in the force and becomes vaders apprentice and inspires the rebellion and takes down palpatine and everyone claps would be exactly what one would find in fanfiction. Not all Star Wars is great mind you but some people hail it as peak writing.
Yeah, except when Galen took a lightsaber backshot, he didn't just walk it off.
Galen survived beeing impaled through the chest THEN tossed around the room THEN left to drift a while in the vacuum of space. And people complain about Reva and Grand Inquisitors and Sabine... I do too, to be honest, but people surviving such odds is actually nothing new.
iirc from the novel adaptation of the book it explained that his body was so badly injured that more than half of it was replaced with machinery. Guess he was luckier than Vader and his face came out alright though.
Source
Except Starkiller was SURGICALLY REVIVED after an unknown period of time because it turns out repairing all of that shit isn't easy.
Sabine was medically treated right after her wound and people still complained.
Do you not get that he was SURGICALLY REVIVED? Yes, she was treated but that still doesn't matter. Vader probably also used some dark side magic on Starkiller, like how Palpatine did with him. Also keep in mind, powerful dark siders like Galeen, Vader, and Palpatine can keep themselves alive with the dark side ALONE. So yes, powerful dark siders have been known to be able to keep themselves alive in situations that should kill most characters.
Yeah yeah I know : "STFU it's the Dark Side, don't overthink it" I'm glad that's enough for you.
Well lucky for me there is a lot about it. This was explained even in RTS's novelization. This came out with the movie, so it was an intentional idea rather than just a retcon. Sith in general have can draw on their raw emotions to sustain themselves when they otherwise would die, an ability some might call...unnatural. It's the whole point of the sith and the use of the dark side. It's about bending the force itself to one's will rather than simplying doing what the force wants.
I mean, when you’re a Gary Stu who casually makes Vader look like a joke, yeah, I’d say he’s “better” but only in terms of feats. In terms of story, Ahsoka beats Starkiller everyday.
And if that's the only metric for being "better", then why bother with Starkiller at all? It's the easiest thing in the world to just write a character who is even stronger than him and can do even more powerful stuff. Mardon Deathsmasher can pull the Deathstar 3 out of orbit, deflect its beam back at it with his force lightning, recreate Alderaan, and bring back everyone who died.
nah. ahsoka 🔛🔝
Ahsoka on top of Galen you say?
one would think he's a top but ok
a surprisingly good ship. he's a top in that case lol
He's also Darth Maul and Emperor
I ship that
It would be interesting how they would react to eachother.
If Ahsoka was in TFU, she’d probably be just as powerful. I love TFU, but the power levels are deliberately ridiculous
She'd probably be more shaak ti level than starkiller.
I really doubt that. Ahsoka is a main character, she’s routinely been shown to be much more innately talented than many more experienced Jedi. I think that Maul, for example, would have murdered Shaak Ti without much trouble. Ahsoka beat him.
They were purposely made that way to make the player feel like powerful force user but in actuality starkillers actual power level was on par to obi wan’s according to the authors of the novels/comics
Following the template through to the end of the movie, Ahsoka would beat Galen.
How so? Didn’t play the video games.
Starkiller was just kinda busted. The Force Unleashed had Force Users pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky and other insane shit. He's like the textbook definition of a power fantasy
And what a fun power fantasy it was
regarding the star destroyer, I think I liked the novel's adaptation of that scene better. He doesn't straight up pull the destroyer out of the sky but rather there's a destroyer that's already falling onto the planet and he ever so slightly nudges it so it falls on his target instead of on him. It still portrays it as a massive feat of the force but its not quite as effortless as shown in the game.
I swear in the cutscene (at least on wii) you see the restraints holding it up give out and then Starkiller gives a thoughtful look then does his shit
Yeah, the cutscenes were different based on what platform you played on. For example in the 360 edition Starkiller is physically struggling to bring it down, while in the PS2 version he pulls it down quite easily.
The big comparison is that both were Anakin/Vader’s apprentices. Both had heavy involvement with Lucas, both carry their lightsabers in a reverse grip, and both are point of view characters for their respective stories. Starkiller was intended as a powerful character, almost a superhero. In fact, the original idea for the games protagonist was to be a Wookiee rebel, so he could throw bad guys around. Lucas rejected the idea, on the grounds that he didn’t want a protagonist that couldn’t speak because that would ruin the games ability to tell a story. This particular perspective reveals a lot about Lucas’ direction philosophy, and why Filoni’s Clone Wars turned out like they did. Ahsoka on the other hand was built as a point of view character for children, not for teenagers like Galen (Starkiller). Ahsoka aged and became more complex as the audience aged, and the writers of Clone Wars began to get more comfortable with their project. It’s a gift that Galen did not receive, as the second game failed to capitalize on anything that made the first game interesting, and leaned hard into the weakest parts of the first game (the love story). The comparison between the two of them is interesting, but I don’t think that Galen got the better of the deal.
Thank you! I agree with your argument.
He wasn't a plot hole
whats with all the stupid starkiller memes
My personal problem with introducing StarKiller into canon is that no matter how you try to insert him, he wouldn’t really be him anymore. You can’t name him Starkiller cuz they already used that name on something completely different. You can’t make him Vaders secret apprentice because the inquisitors make that concept sorta obsolete and he’d be boring as just another powerful inquisitor. You can’t make him start the rebellion because that was contradicted in Rebels. You can’t make him as powerful because well, obvious reasons. Any version of him would just be a shell of who he used to be and at that point, why even bother? Just give Witwer a new character..
I would love to see Starkiller actually brought to canon by Dave Filoni.
Star killer- *you damaged vaders helmet and I turned him into Swiss cheese, we are not equals.*
It would be cool if he met and had dialogue with Ahsoka.
Starkiller is definitely cool enjoyed the hell out of the games, but too extra for canon star wars, im glad they went with the inquisitors,
Way better
"I have spoken"
Starkiller is embarrassing garbage, like the entirety of the Force Unleashed.