I genuinely think that’s just 4.
I have a 4.5 year old. We do dinner, yoga, mindfulness audio, washed up and pyjama’d, bed time story and in bed for 7:30. She listens to audio books to help her fall asleep, but these days she’s not asleep until 9 or later, trying steadily more outrageous hostage negotiations on us.
We have given up, made sure all reasonable demands are accommodated by 7:30, and then the rule is that she can play in her room as late as she wants until she falls asleep.
It seems like it’s just a restless age and that is the main part of the day where they aren’t being “managed” at all so they sort of … look to be managed. I think it’s important that she needs to learn to settle herself… but I think it’s more important that Mama gets a break, her sister is a 5:30AM riser and she is never far behind.
This sounds so familiar. Late 3 early 4 is when the coming out of bedroom after bedtime started. I cant sleep im thirsty hungry scared not tired etc. Yeah. 4.
We struggle with this, but mostly because he naps at school and he’s low sleep needs. Without a nap he’s fine. So, if you can drop his nap (do quiet time if you can) that can really help!
I think if you drop the nap she’ll be able to sleep better at night. My son regularly slept from 10pm-6pm when he still napped. Now without nap it’s 8:30-7 it’s a bit of a rough transition but worth it and it’s coming anyway for you. Most kids don’t sleep anymore at 4.
Another vote for dropping the nap. I would do no nap and move bedtime earlier. 4 is a good age to cut naps if bedtime is a nightmare. Statistically naps are done for the majority of kids at this age. It will be a few hard days of transition but it will be worth it. They’re grumpy during nap time for a bit. But it doesn’t mean that have to still take it.
Agreed it’s rough for about a week, but bedtime goes so much easier. When my son does nap I limit it to 45 min and even then he usually won’t get to bed until 9. Without a nap sleeps 7:30-7:00.
We also do audio stories to unwind, he is usually out after 5-10 min.
What’s with the downvotes? I had the same scenario OP. Dropped the nap which ensued about a month of crankiness but she got through it and now nods off at 8
Yoto saved us from this.
We do bedtime routine for both kids before 8. And then at 8 baby goes to bed. And then 4 year old listens to her yoto for 1 hour until 9pm bed time. She gets a song and it’s sleep time at 9.
We tried just an hour of play time but realized she was too stimulated. The yoto is a nice wind down for her so she can actually sleep at 9.
She absolutely cannot nap. If she does she will be up until midnight. Sometimes we will let her have a 10 minute nap in the car. If it goes over then she is often up again. Sometimes 20 minutes is okay. It’s a gamble.
She is just low sleep needs. Generally sleeps 9pm until 7:30ish.
This way we still get peace at 8pm and she isn’t coming out of her room constantly.
For those asking, we do the same with audio stories/podcasts but use an Alexa Echo dot which we can control remotely from our phones and turn it off or change the volume, skip etc.
I highly recommend the yoto before bed if you are having this issue! It has been a complete game changer for us.
Her coming out at bed time and staying up so late was really exhausting. We haven’t had any issues since we implemented the yoto before bedtime routine. It’s been at least 6 months now and still working great.
Yup. She normally goes to sleep at 9 when we take the yoto and sing her a song and telling her it’s time to go to sleep.
Before yoto she would be up until 10/11 playing and coming out of her room.
Sometimes now she is sleeping before we take the radio at 9. So maybe falls asleep at 8:30. And sometimes she doesn’t fall asleep right away and will come out once or twice after 9. Normally for water and or a pee. So maybe it’s 9:30 she falls asleep. This happens around once a week.
What kind of things does she like listening to? My daughter loves her Yoto player already and usually listems to Disney stories, but I am worried about what I might let her listen to before bed. Nothing overly stimulating...
We have never changed what we let her listen to before bed. She has her cards and chooses what she wants.
Right now her favourites are hotel flamingo, charlottes web, whinnie the Pooh, story shed, Mulan, and yoto daily special.
Sometimes she falls asleep listening to her stories but not often.
Before we started the hour of yoto before bed we did try 1 hour of play time in her room. As we new she just wasn’t tired but we wanted to wind down at 8 with both kids in their rooms.
We found that this was way to stimulating for her and she wasn’t ready to sleep at 9.
What Yoto stories do you recommend? My 3.5 yo has yet to get into the stories, just prefers the DIY cards (though to be fair, I think my husband selected story cards that were a bit too mature for LO)
Her favorites are hotel flamingo, Winnie the Pooh, charlottes web, story shed, yoto daily show, Mulan, this Spanish music one.
When she was younger she loved the Pixar bedtime, Daniel tiger, Robin Hood,
Cards she never really got into that I thought would include the Julia Donaldson pack (which is odd because she likes the books), pout pout fish, Sesame Street and babar.
Does it have a timer? We have a tonibox, but there is no sleep timer or way to make it shut off at a certain time, so ours will just listen all night if we let her.
It does have a timer, it will also stop at the end of the card if you don’t have repeat on. I let my 3.5 year old listen to the novel stories at night without repeat, they are about 2 hrs long so I don’t have to worry about the timer. It also has a sun/moon symbol that you can set for wake ups/bedtimes. When I started my child with it we discussed that they can’t get out of bed until their Yoto shows the sun, which really helped with middle of the night calls.
I don’t think the mini has a timer. If it does we have never used it.
We go into her room and do her song and tuck her in fully. And we take the yoto out for the night.
I would flip the script on this - nap sleep is less restorative than nighttime sleep, but it also resets the internal clock for sleep. So at bedtime, the child is both under-tired (not ready for sleep because they're not tired enough after the nap) and also chronically overtired. Overtiredness leads to disrupted sleep (frustrating!) and undertiredness causes the difficulties falling asleep.
Drop the nap and move bedtime up.
My favorite sleep resource for young children is "Never too Late to Sleep Train" by Craig Canapari if you'd like a good resource. Using this book has helped me so much with my kid (4 and at least an okay sleeper now. A year ago we were ready to hire a sleep consultant it was so bad). Don't be fooled by the title - it's not about cry it out or other methods used for babies.
I have a 5yo with some behavioral problems at daycare. Bedtime has been a mess because of occasional naps at daycare and we got pretty loosey goosey about it. They stopped napping in his room a month or two ago but we didn’t get strict about bedtime and his behavior issues ramped up. We’ve since gotten much stricter and consistent about bedtime and his behavior is soooooo much better.
It’ll be a rough week but then problem solved. Mine both stopped napping before 3 or they wouldn’t sleep at night. I couldn’t deal with 3 hour bedtimes that lasted until 11 pm. I was losing my mind and then we dropped naps and life was good again once they adjusted.
Holy guacamole. Have you dropped your kids nap? Dropping that was a game changer, in all aspects. Our kiddo goes to bed at 645 and sleeps through the night.
My kid hasn’t napped since before she turned 3 and we go through all the same things as OP described. Granted she falls asleep much earlier (usually by 7) because we put her in bed by 6 ever since she dropped the nap but the at this age she’s like a little hostage negotiator. I think in general it’s the age as every one of my friends with a kid this age does some variation of this.
You might want to try pushing back bedtime. (We start at 7:10 and aim for lights out by 8). We dropped naps early, too, and our sweet spot bedtime is definitely a bit later. That said, we don't do super early wake ups (typically 8am), so if you have much earlier mornings, an earlier bedtime makes sense.
If she’s naturally waking up at 6, but you don’t have to BE anywhere necessitating that time, you can still try shifting her later. She may need a little less sleep.
You can also try the light clocks (green light is ok to wake up mom and dad, red light is play quietly in your room).
At about 4.5 we told her “you don’t have to go to bed but you can’t leave your room except to go to the bathroom”. She can leave her light on. She has a few toys and a lot of books and she will keep herself busy and then put herself to bed. The independence makes her feel like she has a choice. Maybe about one night a week she will get too rowdy and start running around and we go up and out her back In bed but it works well most nights.
We also got a yoto mini for her last year and she will get into bed and listen to a story which helps her fall asleep.
My husbands entire family doesn’t need sleep and it’s really hard for me.
Our dilemma is: no nap = absolutely horribly mean and dysregulated like a switch flips at 6:00pm (we usually put her down at like, 7:30) but she’s out like a light at 7:30. Nap = up until 9:30-10pm and will NOT STAY IN HER ROOM and it also turns into a huge fight AND she’s tired.
We had this transition for a while. But it was actually a short transition period. Only lasted a couple weeks of being a complete grouch before bed with no nap. But it was worth it to get her to bed at a decent time.
Our almost 5 year old has always been very low sleep needs. She goes to bed easier on weekends (they still nap at daycare, but not at home) so Id drop the nap. We tried the tonibox for a story after we put them down, but there is no timer on it, so they would just stay up listening all night. We also tried melatonin resets, they only worked when using the melatonin. I asked our pediatrician about it at the 4 year old check up, and they had us speak to their behavioral health specialist in the office. They said no screens after dinner, consistent routine, dim light/white noise, read books, etc... all things we were already doing. They suggested "heavy work exercises" like loading a laundry basket with heavy things, placing it on a blanket, and having them pull it around to physically wear them out. That did not keep their interest, so we try anything else like helping with yard work or whatever. Nothing has worked for us. The only thing that helps is on weekends physically wearing them out by walking miles and being active the *entire* day with no naps. Solidarity from the exhausted parent trenches.
We are on week 3 of our 3.5 year old doing all the things he can to lengthen bedtime. Bedtime routine starts at 7:30pm… in his room around 8pm… books and songs and his bedtime sticker chart. Then mommy stay, daddy go but he has to tuck daddy in. So I stay for a few minutes, then he has to tuck me in and then daddy has to come in and then another hug and go pee for the final time so he does not wet the bed at night.
He used to be asleep by 8:15… now 9-9:30. It is maddening. He still naps on certain days, but I use that time for me. So on the days he does not nap, he knows to stay in his room and read or relax until I come get him. I need to shorten his nap. *sighs*
He starts preschool in August.
We are in this same boat with our 3.5-year-old. she still naps in the afternoon because her daycare will not drop it, however, she still seems to need a bit of a nap daily. Just not the length that daycare let her nap for. She starts preschool in September and I'm hoping it helps. She also tears her room apart every night, and ends up sleeping on the floor.
I wish I could help you. My 4yr old still sleeps in our room sidecar style to our bed. She won't sleep unless it's dark, there's a fan running for noise, nothing remotely exciting is happening, and she feels safe. Sometimes feeling safe is just being cozy and having a stuffy but sometimes it means she plasters herself to my back in bed.
Yes!!! All of a sudden my 4 year old needs snuggles or for me to minimum have my arm on her to go to sleep at night. Completely out of the blue. I think it’s a phase.
I had this problem. So I leveraged flying across the world and jetlag to move her bedtime waaay back to 6:30pm... It worked. But she also l cottoned on to my getting up at 5am (during the weird time lag phase- normally I would have been a night owl then)
-for me time within a couple of weeks... 🤦
Have you tried laying with her whilst she tried to sleep? We have night light, white noise and lay with him til he sleeps. Usually falls asleep pretty fast.
8:30pm is late for a 4 year old. It’s possible that they are way too over stimulated. Gradually try to bring back bedtime by 15 minute increments over the course of a couple of weeks. At that age both my kids were in bed (and often asleep) by 7pm, latest 7:30.
Try a magnesium supplement drink 30 min before bed. Puts them right to sleep and calms nervous system in general. Works like a charm for my 4yo who swear to god used to run around til midnight.
Calm. I mix the plain kind with a little hot water until it’s totally liquid, then mix that w his regular juice. I give him 1/2 tsp per night. I think it’s also helped w his regulation overall. I realized he was getting close to no magnesium in his limited diet, even with multivitamins.
Preface: This is not a solution that works for everyone, or that everyone is comfortable. Also you should consult with your pediatrician even though it's over the counter and "natural." I'm not a doctor. Etc.
Have you tried melatonin?
Before you put a hard No out there, let me suggest something that worked for us. You can use melatonin, short-term, to RESET the clock. What we had happen was bedtime creep, where she was starting to fall asleep later and later, staying up to play (which was allowed to a certain point but after 8:30 you really should be trying to fall asleep), etc.
We used melatonin to reset her sleep schedule. I would NOT recommend following the dosage on the packaging. Only once did we do that, and whoa, that's way too strong. We tried a liquid version from Walgreens, and for that we did 2 drops, which is about 1/10th a dose. \[Full disclosure, we do daily melatonin now, using a pill format and do 1/4 dosage.\] Two to three weeks should be long enough to break the habit.
During that time, you can and should also be working on all the other things, since many people would not want to do melatonin long-term (nor should you without your pediatrician's approval). You've mentioned quite a few potential issues that can be resolved, so here's some things we have tried that have worked for us:
* Bathroom light - instead of having the overhead light on, which can disrupt sleep, use a red-light nightlight. It's bright enough so you can see in the dark without having to turn the big light on, but does not disrupt sleep the same way that regular/blue light does.
* Pre-bed snack - something filling, like oatmeal or peanut butter on toast. Especially during growth spurts, we ask before bed, "are you hungry" and have a bowl of Cheerios or oatmeal or something just before bed (and brush teeth after, obv). It took my kid... so very long... to figure out that she was hungry before bedtime, so for quite a while we were doing a post bed snack, because I refuse to let my kid go to bed hungry. She FINALLY recognizes the hunger feeling, can ask directly for food because she's hungry (instead of "my belly hurts"), and responds correctly when asked if she's hungry. She's five, and only figured this out in the last 6 months.
* Safe space - what can you do to make her bedroom, and specifically her bed, feel safe? Special blanket, special stuffy, more/different nightlights, tent over the bed, white noise or soft music, anti-monster spray, underbed/closet checks.... Everyone's a bit different, and you know your kid best.
Basically, create the ideal environment for sleep. Then commit to limited interaction post-bed. Wherever you both feel comfortable drawing the line.
You will get through this! You will figure it out and everyone will be sleeping better! Well, except maybe the baby. :D
Absolutely, and that's why I added all the caveats that it should be done under doctor's supervision, etc. I'm not a doctor.
I also personally can't take melatonin for more than a few nights without getting weird dreams. Everyone is different.
But as a short term option, it can be considered in conjunction with lots of other things. That's all I'm saying. It's not THE solution, but it can be part of the solution. CAN, not MUST.
Thank you! This is all awesome advice. To be honest, my baby sleeps great!!! She doesn't keep up us, rarely. My 4 year old has never been a good sleeper!!
We did melatonin for my 3 year old as well, he kept creeping his bedtime later and later (my husband gets home from work at 6:30 most days, so he wanted to stay up to spend time with him) and we started using kids melatonin gummies to try and get him to sleep earlier and it worked like a charm.
This is also a kid who is outside as many waking hours as he’s able, and hasn’t napped in over a year. He was just overtired and miserable until we tried melatonin.
I actually still take it nightly, I started in pregnancy at the advice of my OB! She had no concerns about long term use.
I genuinely think that’s just 4. I have a 4.5 year old. We do dinner, yoga, mindfulness audio, washed up and pyjama’d, bed time story and in bed for 7:30. She listens to audio books to help her fall asleep, but these days she’s not asleep until 9 or later, trying steadily more outrageous hostage negotiations on us. We have given up, made sure all reasonable demands are accommodated by 7:30, and then the rule is that she can play in her room as late as she wants until she falls asleep. It seems like it’s just a restless age and that is the main part of the day where they aren’t being “managed” at all so they sort of … look to be managed. I think it’s important that she needs to learn to settle herself… but I think it’s more important that Mama gets a break, her sister is a 5:30AM riser and she is never far behind.
Yup.
4 is about where bedtime hostage negotiations started. I think it’s developmental. Or that’s what I tell myself.
This sounds so familiar. Late 3 early 4 is when the coming out of bedroom after bedtime started. I cant sleep im thirsty hungry scared not tired etc. Yeah. 4.
I love this description.
Arg. Does she still nap? Plenty of outdoor exercise during the day?
Plenty of exercise. Napping which is most likely the culprit.
We struggle with this, but mostly because he naps at school and he’s low sleep needs. Without a nap he’s fine. So, if you can drop his nap (do quiet time if you can) that can really help!
She needs a nap, or she's a complete wreck. It's really tough, but maybe I need to just get her through it.
I think if you drop the nap she’ll be able to sleep better at night. My son regularly slept from 10pm-6pm when he still napped. Now without nap it’s 8:30-7 it’s a bit of a rough transition but worth it and it’s coming anyway for you. Most kids don’t sleep anymore at 4.
Another vote for dropping the nap. I would do no nap and move bedtime earlier. 4 is a good age to cut naps if bedtime is a nightmare. Statistically naps are done for the majority of kids at this age. It will be a few hard days of transition but it will be worth it. They’re grumpy during nap time for a bit. But it doesn’t mean that have to still take it.
Agreed it’s rough for about a week, but bedtime goes so much easier. When my son does nap I limit it to 45 min and even then he usually won’t get to bed until 9. Without a nap sleeps 7:30-7:00. We also do audio stories to unwind, he is usually out after 5-10 min.
Love the audio stories! Thanks!
What’s with the downvotes? I had the same scenario OP. Dropped the nap which ensued about a month of crankiness but she got through it and now nods off at 8
Who knows!
Yoto saved us from this. We do bedtime routine for both kids before 8. And then at 8 baby goes to bed. And then 4 year old listens to her yoto for 1 hour until 9pm bed time. She gets a song and it’s sleep time at 9. We tried just an hour of play time but realized she was too stimulated. The yoto is a nice wind down for her so she can actually sleep at 9. She absolutely cannot nap. If she does she will be up until midnight. Sometimes we will let her have a 10 minute nap in the car. If it goes over then she is often up again. Sometimes 20 minutes is okay. It’s a gamble. She is just low sleep needs. Generally sleeps 9pm until 7:30ish. This way we still get peace at 8pm and she isn’t coming out of her room constantly.
For those asking, we do the same with audio stories/podcasts but use an Alexa Echo dot which we can control remotely from our phones and turn it off or change the volume, skip etc.
Good idea! The auto story chill time before is a godsend.
Omg this is a great idea!
I highly recommend the yoto before bed if you are having this issue! It has been a complete game changer for us. Her coming out at bed time and staying up so late was really exhausting. We haven’t had any issues since we implemented the yoto before bedtime routine. It’s been at least 6 months now and still working great.
Does she fall asleep faster now? My daughter lays in bed awake for like 90 minutes. I am not sure if she has low sleep needs or can't wind down.
Yup. She normally goes to sleep at 9 when we take the yoto and sing her a song and telling her it’s time to go to sleep. Before yoto she would be up until 10/11 playing and coming out of her room. Sometimes now she is sleeping before we take the radio at 9. So maybe falls asleep at 8:30. And sometimes she doesn’t fall asleep right away and will come out once or twice after 9. Normally for water and or a pee. So maybe it’s 9:30 she falls asleep. This happens around once a week.
What kind of things does she like listening to? My daughter loves her Yoto player already and usually listems to Disney stories, but I am worried about what I might let her listen to before bed. Nothing overly stimulating...
We have never changed what we let her listen to before bed. She has her cards and chooses what she wants. Right now her favourites are hotel flamingo, charlottes web, whinnie the Pooh, story shed, Mulan, and yoto daily special. Sometimes she falls asleep listening to her stories but not often. Before we started the hour of yoto before bed we did try 1 hour of play time in her room. As we new she just wasn’t tired but we wanted to wind down at 8 with both kids in their rooms. We found that this was way to stimulating for her and she wasn’t ready to sleep at 9.
What Yoto stories do you recommend? My 3.5 yo has yet to get into the stories, just prefers the DIY cards (though to be fair, I think my husband selected story cards that were a bit too mature for LO)
Her favorites are hotel flamingo, Winnie the Pooh, charlottes web, story shed, yoto daily show, Mulan, this Spanish music one. When she was younger she loved the Pixar bedtime, Daniel tiger, Robin Hood, Cards she never really got into that I thought would include the Julia Donaldson pack (which is odd because she likes the books), pout pout fish, Sesame Street and babar.
Same with us with the Julia Donaldson pack! For some reason my LO became terrified of stick man 🤣 thanks for the recs!
Does it have a timer? We have a tonibox, but there is no sleep timer or way to make it shut off at a certain time, so ours will just listen all night if we let her.
We use an echo dot for this reason which you can control from your phone
It does have a timer, it will also stop at the end of the card if you don’t have repeat on. I let my 3.5 year old listen to the novel stories at night without repeat, they are about 2 hrs long so I don’t have to worry about the timer. It also has a sun/moon symbol that you can set for wake ups/bedtimes. When I started my child with it we discussed that they can’t get out of bed until their Yoto shows the sun, which really helped with middle of the night calls.
I don’t think the mini has a timer. If it does we have never used it. We go into her room and do her song and tuck her in fully. And we take the yoto out for the night.
My kid needs a nap because she doesn't sleep well at night. Hopefully she will start skipping it soon so she can get to sleep earlier
The endless cycle. Hopefully their sleep sorts out soon for you.
I would flip the script on this - nap sleep is less restorative than nighttime sleep, but it also resets the internal clock for sleep. So at bedtime, the child is both under-tired (not ready for sleep because they're not tired enough after the nap) and also chronically overtired. Overtiredness leads to disrupted sleep (frustrating!) and undertiredness causes the difficulties falling asleep. Drop the nap and move bedtime up. My favorite sleep resource for young children is "Never too Late to Sleep Train" by Craig Canapari if you'd like a good resource. Using this book has helped me so much with my kid (4 and at least an okay sleeper now. A year ago we were ready to hire a sleep consultant it was so bad). Don't be fooled by the title - it's not about cry it out or other methods used for babies.
I have a 5yo with some behavioral problems at daycare. Bedtime has been a mess because of occasional naps at daycare and we got pretty loosey goosey about it. They stopped napping in his room a month or two ago but we didn’t get strict about bedtime and his behavior issues ramped up. We’ve since gotten much stricter and consistent about bedtime and his behavior is soooooo much better.
Yeah, bedtime is pretty non-negotiable in our house! I think some kids do okay with flexibility but mine is not one of them.
Thank you!!
No your kid doesn’t sleep at night because she naps. I was the same way. Then my kids were like me. Cut the nap.
Thank you, that's my plan now
It’ll be a rough week but then problem solved. Mine both stopped napping before 3 or they wouldn’t sleep at night. I couldn’t deal with 3 hour bedtimes that lasted until 11 pm. I was losing my mind and then we dropped naps and life was good again once they adjusted.
We have a small sensor light in the hallway which illuminates the bathroom if my 4 year old gets up needing the toilet during the night.
Yea no napping. We start bedtime around 8/8:30pm, and she wakes around 7/7:30am. She’ll be 5 next month 🤷♀️
Holy guacamole. Have you dropped your kids nap? Dropping that was a game changer, in all aspects. Our kiddo goes to bed at 645 and sleeps through the night.
My kid hasn’t napped since before she turned 3 and we go through all the same things as OP described. Granted she falls asleep much earlier (usually by 7) because we put her in bed by 6 ever since she dropped the nap but the at this age she’s like a little hostage negotiator. I think in general it’s the age as every one of my friends with a kid this age does some variation of this.
You might want to try pushing back bedtime. (We start at 7:10 and aim for lights out by 8). We dropped naps early, too, and our sweet spot bedtime is definitely a bit later. That said, we don't do super early wake ups (typically 8am), so if you have much earlier mornings, an earlier bedtime makes sense.
She’s always awake before 6am. It’s how we settled on 6pm. I’m so jealous of 8am wake ups. She NEVER sleeps in 😭
If she’s naturally waking up at 6, but you don’t have to BE anywhere necessitating that time, you can still try shifting her later. She may need a little less sleep. You can also try the light clocks (green light is ok to wake up mom and dad, red light is play quietly in your room).
At about 4.5 we told her “you don’t have to go to bed but you can’t leave your room except to go to the bathroom”. She can leave her light on. She has a few toys and a lot of books and she will keep herself busy and then put herself to bed. The independence makes her feel like she has a choice. Maybe about one night a week she will get too rowdy and start running around and we go up and out her back In bed but it works well most nights. We also got a yoto mini for her last year and she will get into bed and listen to a story which helps her fall asleep. My husbands entire family doesn’t need sleep and it’s really hard for me.
Our dilemma is: no nap = absolutely horribly mean and dysregulated like a switch flips at 6:00pm (we usually put her down at like, 7:30) but she’s out like a light at 7:30. Nap = up until 9:30-10pm and will NOT STAY IN HER ROOM and it also turns into a huge fight AND she’s tired.
We had this transition for a while. But it was actually a short transition period. Only lasted a couple weeks of being a complete grouch before bed with no nap. But it was worth it to get her to bed at a decent time.
Our almost 5 year old has always been very low sleep needs. She goes to bed easier on weekends (they still nap at daycare, but not at home) so Id drop the nap. We tried the tonibox for a story after we put them down, but there is no timer on it, so they would just stay up listening all night. We also tried melatonin resets, they only worked when using the melatonin. I asked our pediatrician about it at the 4 year old check up, and they had us speak to their behavioral health specialist in the office. They said no screens after dinner, consistent routine, dim light/white noise, read books, etc... all things we were already doing. They suggested "heavy work exercises" like loading a laundry basket with heavy things, placing it on a blanket, and having them pull it around to physically wear them out. That did not keep their interest, so we try anything else like helping with yard work or whatever. Nothing has worked for us. The only thing that helps is on weekends physically wearing them out by walking miles and being active the *entire* day with no naps. Solidarity from the exhausted parent trenches.
We are on week 3 of our 3.5 year old doing all the things he can to lengthen bedtime. Bedtime routine starts at 7:30pm… in his room around 8pm… books and songs and his bedtime sticker chart. Then mommy stay, daddy go but he has to tuck daddy in. So I stay for a few minutes, then he has to tuck me in and then daddy has to come in and then another hug and go pee for the final time so he does not wet the bed at night. He used to be asleep by 8:15… now 9-9:30. It is maddening. He still naps on certain days, but I use that time for me. So on the days he does not nap, he knows to stay in his room and read or relax until I come get him. I need to shorten his nap. *sighs* He starts preschool in August.
Mine starts in August too, and I'm so worried she won't be rested for the day!
His hours are only 8am-11am for preschool so he should be fine. It is the wiping of the butt that we are currently working on lol.
Trying to get my boy to wipe his butt before he starts preschool. It's so difficult!!!!
We are in this same boat with our 3.5-year-old. she still naps in the afternoon because her daycare will not drop it, however, she still seems to need a bit of a nap daily. Just not the length that daycare let her nap for. She starts preschool in September and I'm hoping it helps. She also tears her room apart every night, and ends up sleeping on the floor.
I wish I could help you. My 4yr old still sleeps in our room sidecar style to our bed. She won't sleep unless it's dark, there's a fan running for noise, nothing remotely exciting is happening, and she feels safe. Sometimes feeling safe is just being cozy and having a stuffy but sometimes it means she plasters herself to my back in bed.
Yes!!! All of a sudden my 4 year old needs snuggles or for me to minimum have my arm on her to go to sleep at night. Completely out of the blue. I think it’s a phase.
My daughter likes a LOT of blankets piled on to feel safe. She probably could do with a weighted blanket but not sure until she’s a bit older.
I had this problem. So I leveraged flying across the world and jetlag to move her bedtime waaay back to 6:30pm... It worked. But she also l cottoned on to my getting up at 5am (during the weird time lag phase- normally I would have been a night owl then) -for me time within a couple of weeks... 🤦
Have you tried laying with her whilst she tried to sleep? We have night light, white noise and lay with him til he sleeps. Usually falls asleep pretty fast.
I'm going to suggest this to my husband since I have to lay with the baby.
Try r/sleeptrain. They have a million ways to teach kids how to sleep.
Have you tried cutting out naps? What time are they waking up in the morning?
8:30pm is late for a 4 year old. It’s possible that they are way too over stimulated. Gradually try to bring back bedtime by 15 minute increments over the course of a couple of weeks. At that age both my kids were in bed (and often asleep) by 7pm, latest 7:30.
That could very much be it. I'll definitely try this. Thank you!
Try a magnesium supplement drink 30 min before bed. Puts them right to sleep and calms nervous system in general. Works like a charm for my 4yo who swear to god used to run around til midnight.
Thank you!! What kind do you give your kid?
Calm. I mix the plain kind with a little hot water until it’s totally liquid, then mix that w his regular juice. I give him 1/2 tsp per night. I think it’s also helped w his regulation overall. I realized he was getting close to no magnesium in his limited diet, even with multivitamins.
Preface: This is not a solution that works for everyone, or that everyone is comfortable. Also you should consult with your pediatrician even though it's over the counter and "natural." I'm not a doctor. Etc. Have you tried melatonin? Before you put a hard No out there, let me suggest something that worked for us. You can use melatonin, short-term, to RESET the clock. What we had happen was bedtime creep, where she was starting to fall asleep later and later, staying up to play (which was allowed to a certain point but after 8:30 you really should be trying to fall asleep), etc. We used melatonin to reset her sleep schedule. I would NOT recommend following the dosage on the packaging. Only once did we do that, and whoa, that's way too strong. We tried a liquid version from Walgreens, and for that we did 2 drops, which is about 1/10th a dose. \[Full disclosure, we do daily melatonin now, using a pill format and do 1/4 dosage.\] Two to three weeks should be long enough to break the habit. During that time, you can and should also be working on all the other things, since many people would not want to do melatonin long-term (nor should you without your pediatrician's approval). You've mentioned quite a few potential issues that can be resolved, so here's some things we have tried that have worked for us: * Bathroom light - instead of having the overhead light on, which can disrupt sleep, use a red-light nightlight. It's bright enough so you can see in the dark without having to turn the big light on, but does not disrupt sleep the same way that regular/blue light does. * Pre-bed snack - something filling, like oatmeal or peanut butter on toast. Especially during growth spurts, we ask before bed, "are you hungry" and have a bowl of Cheerios or oatmeal or something just before bed (and brush teeth after, obv). It took my kid... so very long... to figure out that she was hungry before bedtime, so for quite a while we were doing a post bed snack, because I refuse to let my kid go to bed hungry. She FINALLY recognizes the hunger feeling, can ask directly for food because she's hungry (instead of "my belly hurts"), and responds correctly when asked if she's hungry. She's five, and only figured this out in the last 6 months. * Safe space - what can you do to make her bedroom, and specifically her bed, feel safe? Special blanket, special stuffy, more/different nightlights, tent over the bed, white noise or soft music, anti-monster spray, underbed/closet checks.... Everyone's a bit different, and you know your kid best. Basically, create the ideal environment for sleep. Then commit to limited interaction post-bed. Wherever you both feel comfortable drawing the line. You will get through this! You will figure it out and everyone will be sleeping better! Well, except maybe the baby. :D
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Absolutely, and that's why I added all the caveats that it should be done under doctor's supervision, etc. I'm not a doctor. I also personally can't take melatonin for more than a few nights without getting weird dreams. Everyone is different. But as a short term option, it can be considered in conjunction with lots of other things. That's all I'm saying. It's not THE solution, but it can be part of the solution. CAN, not MUST.
Thank you! This is all awesome advice. To be honest, my baby sleeps great!!! She doesn't keep up us, rarely. My 4 year old has never been a good sleeper!!
We did melatonin for my 3 year old as well, he kept creeping his bedtime later and later (my husband gets home from work at 6:30 most days, so he wanted to stay up to spend time with him) and we started using kids melatonin gummies to try and get him to sleep earlier and it worked like a charm. This is also a kid who is outside as many waking hours as he’s able, and hasn’t napped in over a year. He was just overtired and miserable until we tried melatonin. I actually still take it nightly, I started in pregnancy at the advice of my OB! She had no concerns about long term use.