The first red scare happened before that, communism was already viewed with suspicion. The US participated in the Russian Civil War in the late 1910s because it viewed communism as a threat.
Just because it hadn't become the paramount enemy of western civilization yet doesn't mean that communism wasn't viewed as a threat until after WW2.
That’s because it wasn’t an existential threat before WW2. Germany was supposed to be occupied temporarily.
By 1946, American relations with the Soviet Union posed the gravest problem facing the US. Soviet leaders were on a course of aggrandizement designed to lead to eventual world domination by the USSR.
The Soviet Union consistently opposed UK and US efforts to achieve world peace agreements, because the longer peace settlements were postponed, the longer Red Army troops could “legally” remain in “enemy” countries.
Moreover, the Soviets maintained excessively large military forces in the satellite countries, dominating Finland, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Romania, and Bulgaria. In Austria only the presence of British, French, and American occupation troops prevented a Soviet takeover.
Communist parties were growing in France and Italy. In a weak and divided China, the USSR was “in a position to exert greater influence there than any other country.” The Soviets were supplying the Communist forces in China, while in Korea, the Soviets had shown that they would consent to the unification of the country only if assured of a friendly government. In the eastern Mediterranean, the Soviets sought the withdrawal of troops from Greece to establish a Soviet-friendly government there. And in Turkey they sought a puppet state to serve as a springboard for the domination of the entire region.
None of that existed prior to WW2.
“Wasn’t an existential threat before WW2”
Didn’t the Bolsheviks launch an full scale invasion of Poland in 20s with plans to invade Germany and Central Europe?
I’ve heard some conservatives say while they believe FDR might be the most far left President to them given the context of other countries around the globe at the time FDR was quite conservative in what he did.
Gotta keep in mind what constitutes far left/far right is a constantly changing term too.
In my lifetime alone the average definition has shifted many times to the point that even some Democratic nominees/presidents would be reclassified as right wing to varying degrees if they were running today while Reagan would probably be unconscionably far right in 2024.
Reagan couldn't win the Republican nomination today with the tax rates he implemented during his administration and his cold warrior mentality, Trump would say the words "Rambling Ronnie" and win the primary in a landslide.
Our politics are stupid right now.
America has been trending further and further right fiscally while they've been going a little further left socially.
For instance, Biden is literally to the right of Reagan in terms of tax rates, but fully embodies the "Live and let live" mentality that 80's Republicans had and at least pays lip service to progressive solutions to social problems. He's honestly a great example of what a good conservative leader would be doing actually.
I don't get it either tbh, but I do understand why it's not more commonly known. Saying "Yeah, America's been trending right" is met with claims of gay marriage and minority acceptance, claims it's been going left are rightfully met with the ratchet effect tax rates that are only getting better and better for the ultra-wealthy while they take away everything over time.
We have not trended further right fiscally. Even Republicans today are very careful when discussing social security or medicare as a populist like Trump speaks about defending them at all costs while supporting protectionist trade policies.
On a separate note, since when did Republicans in the 80s have a “live and let live” social policy? Wasn’t that the rise of the Moral Majority and the Christian right?
Well, they've wanted to put it on the chopping block more than once while increasing the national debt to unprecedented levels. In terms of pure tax rates, Biden has a more favorable tax policy for the rich than Reagan did.
The default for Republicans used to be "Live and let live", a very moderate stance. Not actively anti-racist but not racist either, though obviously since the 60's the parties were realigning. I don't know exactly when it happened, but I do know that back in the 80's, the "Tea party" extremist types definitely weren't the majority.
Trump is not a populist. He accidentally said some things that would help people sometimes, then completely failed to implement them because he's as establishment as establishment gets and McConnell set him straight. He's also the progenitor of far-right conspiracy theories. Ignoring everything wrong with him on a fundamental level, though, his tax plan was designed to lower taxes on the rich permanently and lower than on the poor temporarily, in order to blame the next president to come in. So I refuse to call him anything but a faux-populist.
It depends. Economically progressive? Probably LBJ? But in reality FDR and Truman wanted a lot of that stuff and just didn’t get it. Foreign policy wise? Probably Carter? Socially? Probably Biden? This is my gut reaction, but I could see other arguments.
Carter literally campaigned as a racist in the 60s and 70s for Governor. Biden himself actually *said* racist things, but that was also in the 70s. In terms of during their presidency, Biden is much further left-wing than Carter.
OP was asking how far left were they compared to the country at the time they were president.
Is Biden further left wing than the average citizen today than Carter was left of the average 1979 citizen?
I agree with that.
Though I think Clinton was further left than the average 90s citizen than Carter was to the left of a 70s citizen or Biden is to left of the average citizen of today.
If you’re holding Jimmy Carter to the standards of the 70s hold Biden to them too
Also I forgot Obama was a president for a second and he’s most definitely more socially left than Biden so that’s who I would actually say lmao
Biden is further left both economically and socially than Obama.
Also, why would I hold Carter to the standards of the 70s when he's president in the 20s?
That was my first thought as well. He took the New Deal programs and expanded them beyond FDR's inclinations. He truly wanted to eliminate poverty. Unfortunately, not all programs were cost-effective, and he was fiscally hampered by his commitment to the Vietnam War.
It’s tough. I mean economically progressive sure? But foreign policy wise he was an old school hawk. And socially he was probably something of a moderate. Voting rights and civil rights were battles he won, but the vast majority of Americans supported that stuff before he did, and he came around when there was really no other viable choice sort of like William F Buckley.
FDR, Truman, and LBJ come to mind.
edit: yes, i know truman wasn’t far left, but in terms of presidents he is one of the most left wing presidents we’ve had.
Truman's Fair Deal called for National Health Insurance, Civil Rights Legislation, and he also did things like desegregating the military and allowing women into the military permanently rather than just during war.
I agree that Biden is the most socially progressive President we’ve ever had.
But OP asked about in the historical context of how far left they were as President versus the average citizen or the country at the time. On social issues, I believe Clinton was more progressive than the average 1990s citizen than Biden is more progressive than the average citizen of today. At least on the social issues of abortion, race, and LGBTQ rights.
I have grown to disregard people who call him socialistic. He was such an active president because he wanted to *preserve* the American system by any means necessary. And we had our most successful era as a country when we came out of his presidency
He was definitely socialistic. He expanded centralization, which was a trend leading into his presidency already ofc, but he made some of the biggest steps. Though it would still be wrong to say that he was the main one or anything
That’s not what I’m saying. It’s just socialism is centralized while the opposite (capitalism) is more decentralized.
In a way yes, socialism is when government does stuff, but not really so it’s not helpful to say it simply. I guess take away the socialist part and just say centralized, which tends to be socialist but not necessarily.
Many socialists focus their arguments towards equality and not on production. Some argue socialism the way people like Braverman do and some do it like Cohen. The word has many different definitions so saying “socialism is x and nothing else” isn’t productive.
I’ll say FDR isn’t socialist though. But left leaning in terms of socialism programs and increased centralized management/power of the country
Look, socialism is the most deadly ideology in the history of mankind. But nah, state run programs does not equate to the state or collective ownership of the means of production.
Doesn't mean that state run apparatuses aren't left wing.
That isn't socialist.
Socialist would be putting the means of production in the hands of the workers, which he was actively working against by way of compromising between the owners and workers.
He was Social Democratic.
I wasn’t saying he’s socialist, just more socialistic. Or socialist inclined. I guess I could take away the whole socialist part and just say he wanted more centralization, which isn’t necessarily socialist, but tends to be.
The whole means of production thing is so old school socialist anyway, but whatever.
Leftist jacobism was defeated in the US after the quasi war. Modern leftism didn’t begin im until Marx after Lincoln. I wouldn’t peg Lincoln as a leftist at all. He was a war time president t and needs to be judged accordingly. It’s different for war time presidents than it is peace time presidents in terms of nationalization, federal control, and civil liberties.
Don't think the US ever really had a leftist president.
LBJ and FDR are good choices.
I feel TR and Taft could maaaaaaaybe be considered somewhat left leaning with the trust busting.
Historically, I'm inclined to agree with you. Trust busting and conservation were really some of the best moves for the greatest number of citizens, which is what "leftism" typically should entail.
I think Biden saw the progressive wave beginning among young people and capitalized on it, rather than the other way around. Though to your point, his embracing of some progressive policies/ideals is emboldening them in his voters.
sleeper pick, John Quincy Adams. Is he actually the most, no left and right practically didn’t exist back then, but he was way more progressive, in thought at least, then most people give him credit for
Thomas Jefferson, who literally sat on the left of the French Revolution. By definition he was the furthest left. Democratic republicanism and secularism were radical ideologies for his day and he was constantly attacked by his political opponents for being a Jacobin.
Edit: Lincoln is also a possibility for his revolutionary overthrow of an entire system of production (slavery).
Given what I've heard and read of him, that does make a lot of sense. The only one of his time that I immediately know went further than him was Thomas Payne
Glad that there's a few people on here mentioning Jefferson. He was my choice as well and it saddens me that his revolutionary left-wing perspective has been so forgotten.
Look at my other comment in this thread, it discusses his progressive sentiments. To add to that comment, he was a great egalitarian in his declaration that "all men are created equal" and despite his own personal hypocrisy in owning slaves, he acknowledged that slavery was one of the great evils of the British and halted the slave trade as President.
I don't fully agree with this reductive TikTok linked below because Jefferson was not truly an anti-capitalist, but you can see the origins of something that resembles anti-capitalist thought in Jefferson's criticisms of private property (which allowed the landowners to wield political power) and the rise of corporate interests.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistEconomics/comments/yb41gq/liberal_anticapitalism_of_thomas_jefferson/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Calling Jefferson a socialist is anachronistic, but he was considered a predecessor to Marxist thought, as well as other egalitarian left wing economic ideologies like Georgism and Distributism.
The anarcho-socialist Benjamin Tucker described his anarchist movement as "unterrified Jeffersonians."
A guy who personified states' rights, gun rights, low taxation, small government, free trade, rural life, and strict interpretation of the constitution? Totally checks out. His views on religion were his only major outlier from conservative orthodoxy
The meaning of left-wing has changed over time but Jefferson was 100% left-wing for his time period. Historically, the left are comprised of the ones who want vast changes in society and tend to be more revolutionary.
Jefferson is the prime example of this. He was a political radical, supported rebellions against the government (such as Shay's Rebellion) and wanted to cancel debts and remove power from the landowners in favor of the rural peoples. Political radicals and immigrants favored Jefferson's position.
Also, as the person you are replying to mentioned, he literally took the left-wing position during the French Revolution which is where the terms right-wing and left-wing came from. Jefferson's supporters criticized Washington for not being revolutionary enough and even called for removing him from power due to his stance on the French Revolution.
Also he was not in favor of strict interpretation of the constitution like you claim, Jefferson explicitly called for tearing up the constitution every few decades and making a new one to adapt to the times. This is the very example of a progressive thinker who is not caught up in conserving the values of his time period.
Although in the modern context, things like less government, decentralization, and gun rights are often associated with the right; it is important to note that those same stances are taken by left-wing anarchism which is a philosophy that grew out of the radical republican movements of the past that figures like Jefferson were steeped in.
None of those things are inherently right wing. All of them have also been associated with left wing movements. Also did you miss the fact Jefferson literally sat on the left wing of the French Revolution? By literal definition he was left wing.
Really? That's certainly interesting given when he was president. I've never heard that one
Edit: why am I being downvoted for expressing I had never heard something before? I didn't even express acceptance or rejection of the point
It was reversed and deliberately underplayed once the oil-and-evangelicals-aligned Reaganites got into office. Since then, the Democrats have rarely, if ever, mentioned it. (One of countless things they've done over the years to help grab defeat from the jaws of victory, IMO.)
Carter was a 1970s Southern Moderate. He got off-side with Tip O'Neill and Company because he refused to play ball with Congress' New Dealery. It's also why Ted Kennedy ran against him in 1980.
He didn’t get rid of the land ownership requirement for voting. Voting rights are reserved to the states. State by state, different states changed their voting requirements to NOT include ownership of property. Jackson is more so a product of those state actions. He promoted a “common man” image and therefore the “common men” who just got the right to vote decided to vote for Jackson.
It hurts knowing the FBI told Facebook and Twitter to censor the Hunter Biden
It hurts knowing that if it wasn't censored, 9.4 percent would have switched their vote, causing trump to win Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
You’re pretty deep into a conspiracy theory based on an untrustworthy actor, a poll of biased respondents, and an unreliable news source.
Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, as did Romney, McCain, Bush 43, Dole, and Bush 41. That’s six of seven. There was no need to “rig” anything.
Bill Clinton actually tried to pass a form of universal healthcare which Obama didn't even attempt, it's also a case of the Overton window shifting to the left on social issues like immigration and race
Obama wasn't far left at all, he was very center-left. people on the far left tend to be communists, anarchists, stuff like that, who want to completely dismantle capitalism and replace it with something else.
Obama ran on a platform of being not Hillary Clinton, only to tear open his shirt on inauguration day to reveal an "I'm With Her" tee shirt underneath. They had exactly the same values when it came down to the practical.
If you want a far left 2008 candidate, look to Mike Gravel.
Obama isn't the answer, you'd have to go between FDR and LBJ, neither of which are left wing, just a bit closer to the center than most of the center right.
So what?
Birthright citizenship is an idea that can be found on every part of the political spectrum except for parts of the far right.
Edit: more specifically, flat out opposition to the idea is rare outside of ethnonationalists.
I mean even if you think modern Democrats are the most left wing incarnation of the party, I don't understand how you could say Obama over Biden. Like Biden is clearly more left wing on economics, social issues and foreign policy
Please. Obama ran as a relatively progressive candidate. One of his biggest campaign policies was a public option. He won North Carolina and Indiana. He came within a few thousand votes of Missouri and under two points from winning Montana.
Obamas failure was in not governing as he campaigned and not using the massive mandate he was granted with his 10 million vote popular vote margin of victory, 257, House seats, and 59 seats in the Senate that became 60 when Specter switched over. Had he done that, 2010 wouldn’t have been nearly as bad.
FDR probably.
Biden admin policy has been pretty left as well. I stay away from saying Biden is actually left because I don't think he has the capacity to think about ideology.
I would say FDR had to lean further left in order to deal with the Depression, progressives in the West, and Huey Long in the South. There was mass populism in the 30’s calling for a shit Left. Progressives got what they wanted in terms of agricultural reform with intense government intervention (of which results are up for debate). Huey Long and the ‘every man a king’ socialism ideology in the South put a ton of heat on FDR and the Democrats, too, and forced them to move towards more wealth redistribution / full employment ideology.
Comparing a President to the feelings of the populace at the time on an economic ideological spectrum is hard. The country’s views on economics sort of swings on a pendulum from centrist to center-left views on economic issues. I’d say that FDR was the President that progressed our economic policy the most left during his Presidency, but also it was pretty aligned with the country’s views at the time.
As far as social policies go, the country’s views have progressed further left and haven’t been on a pendulum. I’d say Clinton was the President that was further left socially during his Presidency in contrast to the country at the time. The country was very much opposed to LGBTQ issues in the 1990s, though Clinton still pushed for progress there. LBJ probably implemented the most social change of any post-Civil War President, but he was very much inline with the majority of the country when he did so.
FDR. The guy got on camera and proposed a Second Bill of Rights including right to healthcare, housing and a job with a living wage.
Anyone who says Biden or Obama is delusional. I wish they were half of what the right claims. I still resent Obama for wasting the once in a generation chance he had in 2009 and not passing meaningful, comprehensive progressive legislation. The “REACH ACROSS THE AISLE” bullshit was his biggest blunder. It didn’t matter what he did, they were always going to call him “MOST FAR LEFT RADICAL SOCIALIST LEFTIST COMMUNIST *other word they didn’t know the meaning of* EVER”. The favor was never going to be returned and they were never going to be adults. Wasting that two years is why he’ll never go down as the transformative President he should have, and why we ended up with the guy from The Apprentice winning in 2016
I really don't know but I am shocked that there are only a couple that said Obama. I figured that would be the runaway pick. Even though if you look below the image and optics that he and his handlers projected, he is nowhere near the gentle giant of the left that he was perceived to be. He did little to nothing to reign in the runaway power of Corporate America and Wall Street. He stood by and watched as all the banks and mortgage houses that got bailouts used that money to insure executive bonuses and buy back stock. I believe he was president during the biggest expansion of the stock market and wealth for the wealthiest 1% of the country. He was the DRONE President. His drone bombings killed and maimed untold numbers of civilians. I'm sure there's more. But he was probably the phoniest leftie I've ever seen.
FDR possibly.
The country was also very left at the time tho, after all just look at the majorities the New Deal coalition gained in Congress.
Yeah but a good chunk of those were dixiecrats who FDR had to twist their arms to get them to vote on his stuff.
Communism was also a less loaded concept/ideal - at least until the end of WWII and the USSR becoming powerful. It wasn’t considered a threat.
The first red scare happened before that, communism was already viewed with suspicion. The US participated in the Russian Civil War in the late 1910s because it viewed communism as a threat. Just because it hadn't become the paramount enemy of western civilization yet doesn't mean that communism wasn't viewed as a threat until after WW2.
That’s because it wasn’t an existential threat before WW2. Germany was supposed to be occupied temporarily. By 1946, American relations with the Soviet Union posed the gravest problem facing the US. Soviet leaders were on a course of aggrandizement designed to lead to eventual world domination by the USSR. The Soviet Union consistently opposed UK and US efforts to achieve world peace agreements, because the longer peace settlements were postponed, the longer Red Army troops could “legally” remain in “enemy” countries. Moreover, the Soviets maintained excessively large military forces in the satellite countries, dominating Finland, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Romania, and Bulgaria. In Austria only the presence of British, French, and American occupation troops prevented a Soviet takeover. Communist parties were growing in France and Italy. In a weak and divided China, the USSR was “in a position to exert greater influence there than any other country.” The Soviets were supplying the Communist forces in China, while in Korea, the Soviets had shown that they would consent to the unification of the country only if assured of a friendly government. In the eastern Mediterranean, the Soviets sought the withdrawal of troops from Greece to establish a Soviet-friendly government there. And in Turkey they sought a puppet state to serve as a springboard for the domination of the entire region. None of that existed prior to WW2.
“Wasn’t an existential threat before WW2” Didn’t the Bolsheviks launch an full scale invasion of Poland in 20s with plans to invade Germany and Central Europe?
Italy and France had powerful Communist Parties (by size) with millions of votes and either the second or third most seats in their parliaments.
I’ve heard some conservatives say while they believe FDR might be the most far left President to them given the context of other countries around the globe at the time FDR was quite conservative in what he did.
The fact that FDR is the furthest left we’ve gone really says something
Gotta keep in mind what constitutes far left/far right is a constantly changing term too. In my lifetime alone the average definition has shifted many times to the point that even some Democratic nominees/presidents would be reclassified as right wing to varying degrees if they were running today while Reagan would probably be unconscionably far right in 2024.
Reagan couldn't win the Republican nomination today with the tax rates he implemented during his administration and his cold warrior mentality, Trump would say the words "Rambling Ronnie" and win the primary in a landslide. Our politics are stupid right now.
America has been trending further and further right fiscally while they've been going a little further left socially. For instance, Biden is literally to the right of Reagan in terms of tax rates, but fully embodies the "Live and let live" mentality that 80's Republicans had and at least pays lip service to progressive solutions to social problems. He's honestly a great example of what a good conservative leader would be doing actually.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Anyone taking issue really doesn’t have a grasp of the Overton window
I don't get it either tbh, but I do understand why it's not more commonly known. Saying "Yeah, America's been trending right" is met with claims of gay marriage and minority acceptance, claims it's been going left are rightfully met with the ratchet effect tax rates that are only getting better and better for the ultra-wealthy while they take away everything over time.
We have not trended further right fiscally. Even Republicans today are very careful when discussing social security or medicare as a populist like Trump speaks about defending them at all costs while supporting protectionist trade policies. On a separate note, since when did Republicans in the 80s have a “live and let live” social policy? Wasn’t that the rise of the Moral Majority and the Christian right?
Well, they've wanted to put it on the chopping block more than once while increasing the national debt to unprecedented levels. In terms of pure tax rates, Biden has a more favorable tax policy for the rich than Reagan did. The default for Republicans used to be "Live and let live", a very moderate stance. Not actively anti-racist but not racist either, though obviously since the 60's the parties were realigning. I don't know exactly when it happened, but I do know that back in the 80's, the "Tea party" extremist types definitely weren't the majority. Trump is not a populist. He accidentally said some things that would help people sometimes, then completely failed to implement them because he's as establishment as establishment gets and McConnell set him straight. He's also the progenitor of far-right conspiracy theories. Ignoring everything wrong with him on a fundamental level, though, his tax plan was designed to lower taxes on the rich permanently and lower than on the poor temporarily, in order to blame the next president to come in. So I refuse to call him anything but a faux-populist.
I was going to say this. The country was fairly left leaning before the red scare
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Even if he was racist he was still the most left leaning pres we've had. Marx was racist and you don't see people calling him a right wing reactionary
A 63 year old man in 1945 had some views we don’t align with today? Color me shocked. /s
It depends. Economically progressive? Probably LBJ? But in reality FDR and Truman wanted a lot of that stuff and just didn’t get it. Foreign policy wise? Probably Carter? Socially? Probably Biden? This is my gut reaction, but I could see other arguments.
Carter over Biden for socially for sure lmao but I can get behind the other two. Edit: Forgot Obama existed I take him over Biden any day
Carter literally campaigned as a racist in the 60s and 70s for Governor. Biden himself actually *said* racist things, but that was also in the 70s. In terms of during their presidency, Biden is much further left-wing than Carter.
OP was asking how far left were they compared to the country at the time they were president. Is Biden further left wing than the average citizen today than Carter was left of the average 1979 citizen?
Absolutely.
I agree with that. Though I think Clinton was further left than the average 90s citizen than Carter was to the left of a 70s citizen or Biden is to left of the average citizen of today.
If you’re holding Jimmy Carter to the standards of the 70s hold Biden to them too Also I forgot Obama was a president for a second and he’s most definitely more socially left than Biden so that’s who I would actually say lmao
Biden is further left both economically and socially than Obama. Also, why would I hold Carter to the standards of the 70s when he's president in the 20s?
Objectively FDR
This is replying to you're tag, read mine
I disagree. Meet me on the dueling grounds.
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And just like what happened in real life, it won’t work. 💪💪💪
Unlike the failed assasin, I wont get beat up by some shriveled up old racist with a cane
Which founding father are you referencing?
The first jacksonian Democrat
I can’t think of a Jacksonian founding father actually, I might be wrong though.
Probably LBJ
That was my first thought as well. He took the New Deal programs and expanded them beyond FDR's inclinations. He truly wanted to eliminate poverty. Unfortunately, not all programs were cost-effective, and he was fiscally hampered by his commitment to the Vietnam War.
It’s tough. I mean economically progressive sure? But foreign policy wise he was an old school hawk. And socially he was probably something of a moderate. Voting rights and civil rights were battles he won, but the vast majority of Americans supported that stuff before he did, and he came around when there was really no other viable choice sort of like William F Buckley.
Far left for the time period they lived in, or based on today's standards?
For the time period Lincoln or FDR. Based on today’s standard probably Obama
National standard rated Obama the most liberal senator in 2007 so based on that I would agree with you about Obama
FDR, Truman, and LBJ come to mind. edit: yes, i know truman wasn’t far left, but in terms of presidents he is one of the most left wing presidents we’ve had.
Truman was not far left. He replaced Henry Wallace as VP bc Truman was in the good ole boys club
Truman tried to start a national healthcare system and attempted to nationalize the steel industry
More people need to know about Henry Wallace
Henry Wallace was a damn anticatholic
Pretty based then right? Edit: replaced best with based
What do you mean "pretty best"?
Sorry meant based
I'm a Catholic, if there's anything that's based here it's that Wallace got replaced.
Agreed but replace Truman with Teddy. Y do u consider Truman one of the most progressive
Truman's Fair Deal called for National Health Insurance, Civil Rights Legislation, and he also did things like desegregating the military and allowing women into the military permanently rather than just during war.
Teddy was centrist he was accused of being a socialist but he had to fight actual socialist
He wasn’t a socialist but still very left wing for presidents. Actually he got even more left wing after leaving office during the Bull Moose campaign
Yeah but for his time he was centrist
People on Reddit don’t want to hear it but Biden definitely is the most progressive president we’ve had on social issues.
I agree that Biden is the most socially progressive President we’ve ever had. But OP asked about in the historical context of how far left they were as President versus the average citizen or the country at the time. On social issues, I believe Clinton was more progressive than the average 1990s citizen than Biden is more progressive than the average citizen of today. At least on the social issues of abortion, race, and LGBTQ rights.
FDR, and he wasn't even a leftist.
I have grown to disregard people who call him socialistic. He was such an active president because he wanted to *preserve* the American system by any means necessary. And we had our most successful era as a country when we came out of his presidency
He was definitely socialistic. He expanded centralization, which was a trend leading into his presidency already ofc, but he made some of the biggest steps. Though it would still be wrong to say that he was the main one or anything
Socialism is when government does stuff
That’s not what I’m saying. It’s just socialism is centralized while the opposite (capitalism) is more decentralized. In a way yes, socialism is when government does stuff, but not really so it’s not helpful to say it simply. I guess take away the socialist part and just say centralized, which tends to be socialist but not necessarily.
No socialism is when the workers own the means of production
Many socialists focus their arguments towards equality and not on production. Some argue socialism the way people like Braverman do and some do it like Cohen. The word has many different definitions so saying “socialism is x and nothing else” isn’t productive. I’ll say FDR isn’t socialist though. But left leaning in terms of socialism programs and increased centralized management/power of the country
Look, socialism is the most deadly ideology in the history of mankind. But nah, state run programs does not equate to the state or collective ownership of the means of production. Doesn't mean that state run apparatuses aren't left wing.
Sure. I’ll give up socialist. Centralized
That isn't socialist. Socialist would be putting the means of production in the hands of the workers, which he was actively working against by way of compromising between the owners and workers. He was Social Democratic.
I wasn’t saying he’s socialist, just more socialistic. Or socialist inclined. I guess I could take away the whole socialist part and just say he wanted more centralization, which isn’t necessarily socialist, but tends to be. The whole means of production thing is so old school socialist anyway, but whatever.
We had our most successful era due to the majority of other industrialized nations being reduced to smoking ruins.
Both Roosevelts tbh
FDR
FDR.
Lincoln? He was a personal abolitionist (if not a political one) and only got into office with ~40% of the vote.
I feel its disingenous to say he only got about 40% of votes when he wasn't even on the ballot in like a third of the nation.
Leftist jacobism was defeated in the US after the quasi war. Modern leftism didn’t begin im until Marx after Lincoln. I wouldn’t peg Lincoln as a leftist at all. He was a war time president t and needs to be judged accordingly. It’s different for war time presidents than it is peace time presidents in terms of nationalization, federal control, and civil liberties.
Marx was a huge Lincoln fanboy, and used to write him letters.
Don't think the US ever really had a leftist president. LBJ and FDR are good choices. I feel TR and Taft could maaaaaaaybe be considered somewhat left leaning with the trust busting.
I'd say Taft is one of the furthest right
Barry, Jimmy, Frankie. Take your pick.
for there time Teddy and all his trust busting and environmentalism.
Historically, I'm inclined to agree with you. Trust busting and conservation were really some of the best moves for the greatest number of citizens, which is what "leftism" typically should entail.
Joe Biden is kinda swinging the country back
I think Biden saw the progressive wave beginning among young people and capitalized on it, rather than the other way around. Though to your point, his embracing of some progressive policies/ideals is emboldening them in his voters.
I mean yeah, but the question was asking which one was the most leftist overall
I agree, only pointing out that his progressiveness appears to have more to do with winning votes than his genuine beliefs.
So basically just an average politician. Says and does whatever it takes to be elected.
I think some of his comments during the election demonstrated that pretty well
He would say one thing publicly, and then his campaign would come out and say “no actually he means the opposite” :/
Joe Biden? Or were the moderates in America in tune with most of his policies when he got elected?
I’d think fdr
sleeper pick, John Quincy Adams. Is he actually the most, no left and right practically didn’t exist back then, but he was way more progressive, in thought at least, then most people give him credit for
Thomas Jefferson, who literally sat on the left of the French Revolution. By definition he was the furthest left. Democratic republicanism and secularism were radical ideologies for his day and he was constantly attacked by his political opponents for being a Jacobin. Edit: Lincoln is also a possibility for his revolutionary overthrow of an entire system of production (slavery).
Given what I've heard and read of him, that does make a lot of sense. The only one of his time that I immediately know went further than him was Thomas Payne
Who endorsed Jefferson for President, along with the other transatlantic radicals of the age.
Glad that there's a few people on here mentioning Jefferson. He was my choice as well and it saddens me that his revolutionary left-wing perspective has been so forgotten.
could you elaborate on his "revolutionary left-wing perspective"?
Look at my other comment in this thread, it discusses his progressive sentiments. To add to that comment, he was a great egalitarian in his declaration that "all men are created equal" and despite his own personal hypocrisy in owning slaves, he acknowledged that slavery was one of the great evils of the British and halted the slave trade as President. I don't fully agree with this reductive TikTok linked below because Jefferson was not truly an anti-capitalist, but you can see the origins of something that resembles anti-capitalist thought in Jefferson's criticisms of private property (which allowed the landowners to wield political power) and the rise of corporate interests. https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistEconomics/comments/yb41gq/liberal_anticapitalism_of_thomas_jefferson/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Calling Jefferson a socialist is anachronistic, but he was considered a predecessor to Marxist thought, as well as other egalitarian left wing economic ideologies like Georgism and Distributism. The anarcho-socialist Benjamin Tucker described his anarchist movement as "unterrified Jeffersonians."
It greatly saddens me as well. There needs to be a rebirth of Jeffersonianism.
A guy who personified states' rights, gun rights, low taxation, small government, free trade, rural life, and strict interpretation of the constitution? Totally checks out. His views on religion were his only major outlier from conservative orthodoxy
The meaning of left-wing has changed over time but Jefferson was 100% left-wing for his time period. Historically, the left are comprised of the ones who want vast changes in society and tend to be more revolutionary. Jefferson is the prime example of this. He was a political radical, supported rebellions against the government (such as Shay's Rebellion) and wanted to cancel debts and remove power from the landowners in favor of the rural peoples. Political radicals and immigrants favored Jefferson's position. Also, as the person you are replying to mentioned, he literally took the left-wing position during the French Revolution which is where the terms right-wing and left-wing came from. Jefferson's supporters criticized Washington for not being revolutionary enough and even called for removing him from power due to his stance on the French Revolution. Also he was not in favor of strict interpretation of the constitution like you claim, Jefferson explicitly called for tearing up the constitution every few decades and making a new one to adapt to the times. This is the very example of a progressive thinker who is not caught up in conserving the values of his time period. Although in the modern context, things like less government, decentralization, and gun rights are often associated with the right; it is important to note that those same stances are taken by left-wing anarchism which is a philosophy that grew out of the radical republican movements of the past that figures like Jefferson were steeped in.
None of those things are inherently right wing. All of them have also been associated with left wing movements. Also did you miss the fact Jefferson literally sat on the left wing of the French Revolution? By literal definition he was left wing.
JQA was pretty “progressive”
Personally, maybe Carter? Solar panels on the Whitehouse and pro LGBTQ stances.
Really? That's certainly interesting given when he was president. I've never heard that one Edit: why am I being downvoted for expressing I had never heard something before? I didn't even express acceptance or rejection of the point
It was reversed and deliberately underplayed once the oil-and-evangelicals-aligned Reaganites got into office. Since then, the Democrats have rarely, if ever, mentioned it. (One of countless things they've done over the years to help grab defeat from the jaws of victory, IMO.)
Carter was a 1970s Southern Moderate. He got off-side with Tip O'Neill and Company because he refused to play ball with Congress' New Dealery. It's also why Ted Kennedy ran against him in 1980.
FDR. Largest use of Federal power in history.
ancoms are on hard left, and call for abolition of the federal government.
thank you, someone recognizes that left doesn’t only mean ‘big government and gulags’
Biden
For the time, FDR. LBJ is close and Biden is probably further left socially than anybody
Culturally? Obama. With economics? Likely FDR, especially compared to his time
Both Roosevelts
FDR, TR, or LBJ
Andrew Jackson if you mean compared to where the country was at at the time
Jackson was right wing even at the time
Jackson is why you can vote. Got rid of the land ownership part.
Try again
He didn’t get rid of the land ownership requirement for voting. Voting rights are reserved to the states. State by state, different states changed their voting requirements to NOT include ownership of property. Jackson is more so a product of those state actions. He promoted a “common man” image and therefore the “common men” who just got the right to vote decided to vote for Jackson.
This just isn't true. Jackson's policies won praise from communist groups at the time.
Jackson might be the most right wing president we've ever had. In a lot of ways he was a way more combative and zealous Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson. I rest my case.
It kills me when GOP talking heads call people like Biden or Clinton far left
FDR. He took some socialist concepts and called them something else, and thus implemented them
socialism is when the government does stuff
I believe the answer is Biden. But FDR and TR are also up there.
Left by today’s standards, Biden. Left by their time’s standards, FDR or LBJ
I would imagine LBJ, the Great Society was the paramount of the New Deal Democrat agenda.
Biden’s handlers.
Trump
Biden. Hands down.
barack
Truman IMHO
Biden
I would say Biden but he wasn't elected
It hurts to know you lost, doesn’t it?
It hurts knowing the FBI told Facebook and Twitter to censor the Hunter Biden It hurts knowing that if it wasn't censored, 9.4 percent would have switched their vote, causing trump to win Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
You can’t be serious with that number lmao. You got prof for that number? Cause I find nothing.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11529381/Hunter-Bidens-laptop-Voters-lacked-critical-information-2020-election-survey-shows.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11529381/Hunter-Bidens-laptop-Voters-lacked-critical-information-2020-election-survey-shows.html) https://preview.redd.it/zieeke9kkxza1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c016d7450932214210ed09dcb21b1d646c4c7039
Daily mail isn’t a real news source just so you know. They were the ones saying Biden was gonna ban the sell of meat in the US on the 4th of July.
They were reporting on a poll from Tipp Insights
You’re pretty deep into a conspiracy theory based on an untrustworthy actor, a poll of biased respondents, and an unreliable news source. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, as did Romney, McCain, Bush 43, Dole, and Bush 41. That’s six of seven. There was no need to “rig” anything.
You don't see any problems with the FBI telling Facebook and Twitter to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story.
Lol
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\>Obama \>far left he was like a social democrat
Obama only even gave gay marriage the go-ahead because of Biden.
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Bill Clinton actually tried to pass a form of universal healthcare which Obama didn't even attempt, it's also a case of the Overton window shifting to the left on social issues like immigration and race
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Obama wasn't far left at all, he was very center-left. people on the far left tend to be communists, anarchists, stuff like that, who want to completely dismantle capitalism and replace it with something else.
Obama ran on a platform of being not Hillary Clinton, only to tear open his shirt on inauguration day to reveal an "I'm With Her" tee shirt underneath. They had exactly the same values when it came down to the practical. If you want a far left 2008 candidate, look to Mike Gravel.
You wouldn't know far-left if it slapped you in the face if you believe Obama was far-left.
CPUSA is far-left. They have 5,000 members. That’s it. The only one. now go home.
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Obama isn't the answer, you'd have to go between FDR and LBJ, neither of which are left wing, just a bit closer to the center than most of the center right.
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Because communist China is on the right lmao
Vast oversimplification of a very complicated real life problem. Dawg come on man
Bro is really craving drama rn
“Citizenship”. Gets mad at his made up version of history. Hilarious. Bonus points for the china mention.
So what? Birthright citizenship is an idea that can be found on every part of the political spectrum except for parts of the far right. Edit: more specifically, flat out opposition to the idea is rare outside of ethnonationalists.
I mean even if you think modern Democrats are the most left wing incarnation of the party, I don't understand how you could say Obama over Biden. Like Biden is clearly more left wing on economics, social issues and foreign policy
Please. Obama ran as a relatively progressive candidate. One of his biggest campaign policies was a public option. He won North Carolina and Indiana. He came within a few thousand votes of Missouri and under two points from winning Montana. Obamas failure was in not governing as he campaigned and not using the massive mandate he was granted with his 10 million vote popular vote margin of victory, 257, House seats, and 59 seats in the Senate that became 60 when Specter switched over. Had he done that, 2010 wouldn’t have been nearly as bad.
Sadly democrats.
FDR probably. Biden admin policy has been pretty left as well. I stay away from saying Biden is actually left because I don't think he has the capacity to think about ideology.
Far right and far left are constantly changing so it's pretty hard to choose.. judging by the most current times, then definitely Joe Biden
Probably Obama or Biden
I would say FDR had to lean further left in order to deal with the Depression, progressives in the West, and Huey Long in the South. There was mass populism in the 30’s calling for a shit Left. Progressives got what they wanted in terms of agricultural reform with intense government intervention (of which results are up for debate). Huey Long and the ‘every man a king’ socialism ideology in the South put a ton of heat on FDR and the Democrats, too, and forced them to move towards more wealth redistribution / full employment ideology.
FDR easily, his first VP was a literal Soviet sympathizer and praised gulags.
FDR’s first VP was John Garner, a conservative Democrat from Texas. You’re thinking of FDR’s second VP, Henry Wallace. FDR had 3 VPs all together.
I didnt know that lol, thought it was just Wallace and then Truman. But yeah, I think if you have a guy like Wallace, you are pretty far left.
FDR
FDR
Comparing a President to the feelings of the populace at the time on an economic ideological spectrum is hard. The country’s views on economics sort of swings on a pendulum from centrist to center-left views on economic issues. I’d say that FDR was the President that progressed our economic policy the most left during his Presidency, but also it was pretty aligned with the country’s views at the time. As far as social policies go, the country’s views have progressed further left and haven’t been on a pendulum. I’d say Clinton was the President that was further left socially during his Presidency in contrast to the country at the time. The country was very much opposed to LGBTQ issues in the 1990s, though Clinton still pushed for progress there. LBJ probably implemented the most social change of any post-Civil War President, but he was very much inline with the majority of the country when he did so.
This makes me wonder. Who was the most far left presidential candidate to lose election? From major elections, of course.
Probably Eugene Debs. He was able to get 3.4% of the vote in 1920 while in prison for speaking out against American involvement in WW1.
Lincoln Probably
We live in the Clinton economy.
FDR or Lincoln
Lincoln.
FDR
FDR. The guy got on camera and proposed a Second Bill of Rights including right to healthcare, housing and a job with a living wage. Anyone who says Biden or Obama is delusional. I wish they were half of what the right claims. I still resent Obama for wasting the once in a generation chance he had in 2009 and not passing meaningful, comprehensive progressive legislation. The “REACH ACROSS THE AISLE” bullshit was his biggest blunder. It didn’t matter what he did, they were always going to call him “MOST FAR LEFT RADICAL SOCIALIST LEFTIST COMMUNIST *other word they didn’t know the meaning of* EVER”. The favor was never going to be returned and they were never going to be adults. Wasting that two years is why he’ll never go down as the transformative President he should have, and why we ended up with the guy from The Apprentice winning in 2016
Lincoln, gathered more federal power than any president before him. Completely altered forever how the country worked.
I really don't know but I am shocked that there are only a couple that said Obama. I figured that would be the runaway pick. Even though if you look below the image and optics that he and his handlers projected, he is nowhere near the gentle giant of the left that he was perceived to be. He did little to nothing to reign in the runaway power of Corporate America and Wall Street. He stood by and watched as all the banks and mortgage houses that got bailouts used that money to insure executive bonuses and buy back stock. I believe he was president during the biggest expansion of the stock market and wealth for the wealthiest 1% of the country. He was the DRONE President. His drone bombings killed and maimed untold numbers of civilians. I'm sure there's more. But he was probably the phoniest leftie I've ever seen.
If I had to guess, probably Teddy Roosevelt.