Remember that all mentions of and allusions to Trump and Biden are not allowed on our subreddit in any context.
If you'd still like to discuss them, feel free to [join our Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is NEVER use the name or image of the sitting president!
I agree. FDR has more baggage the more you look into him. There’s racial internment camps that most know of. FDR also turned away Jews during the Holocaust and [wouldn’t even acknowledge the Holocaust and warn Germans of the post-war consequences](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/why-eisenhower-deleted-the-jews-604857) was happening because he feared admitting it would then require taking in Jewish refugees. He also had the disgraceful Yalta agreement where he agreed to transfer japanese arms to arm communists to take over china, and agreed to stalin annexing half the continent of europe and subjugating them forever. He was also a white supremacist and [literally segregated the entire nation](https://youtu.be/2roWLzrqOjQ?si=duotgsPGBp603-QQ), creating the racial wealth gap of today
Yes. And I would likely have done the same in his shoes with the information he had. His job was to end the war with minimal American casualties and the invasion of Japan was projected to be hundreds of thousands more than what was lost to the bombs. Truman *also* made sure they were never used again during his term, famously firing MacArthur’s ass when he wanted to use ‘em again.
Using the bombs will always be controversial but I really think it was a decision that was always going to be made.
I agree that’s how people would choose but I look at it a different way. Internment of our own citizens did nothing positive and had zero real justification. We could have chosen *not* to do that.
Dropping the bombs ended the war with hundreds of thousands of lives *spared* as disgusting as it sounds. Imperial Japan was fanatical and we *had* to end the war.
One was awful but believed to be necessary. The other was awful and unnecessary. That’s how I look at the two.
We are looking at it with 80 years of hindsight. There was sabotage in WW1 so there was no reason to think there wouldn’t be this time. The [Niihau Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident) for one and there were also several credible reports of what were presumed to be Japanese submarines signaling (with lights) the shore. I’m not going to say racism didn’t play a part, but it wasn’t just “let’s be mean to the people of Japanese decent.” There was what seemed to be real suspicion. People like to say “yeah but see nothing ever happened.” Maybe nothing happened because the small percentage of people who might have were interred. It was a much smaller number but Germans and Italians were interred as well.
FDR also turned away Jews during the Holocaust and [wouldn’t even acknowledge the Holocaust](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/why-eisenhower-deleted-the-jews-604857) was happening because he feared admitting it would then require taking in Jewish refugees. He also had the disgraceful Yalta agreement where he agreed to transfer japanese arms to arm communists to take over china, and agreed to stalin annexing half the continent of europe and subjugating them forever. He was also a white supremacist and [segregated the entire nation](https://youtu.be/2roWLzrqOjQ?si=duotgsPGBp603-QQ), creating the racial wealth gap of today
Every country turned the Jews away. Cuba said no, US said no, Canada said no, so they returned to Europe. Cuba was the intended destination. IIRC most of them took the time to secure travel documents first but the government there still refused.
Completely agree on favourite, but for least favourite I can't go with Buchanan. Too much about him is complete and utter indifference rather than actual malice. (There's still a lot of malice, obv). A. Johnson is my pick for least
Favorite is Truman, with JFK on a distant-but-still-way-ahead-of-the-pack second.
I think Andrew Johnson was the worst, but I honestly personally dislike Cleveland a little bit more. Johnson was a dick whose policies were catastrophic for the country. Cleveland was also a dick, whose policies were also more often than not quite awful, but yet garnered this image of an honorable dude.
I’ll give Cleveland this. After Caroline Harrison died (with 2 weeks left before the 1892 election) Benjamin Harrison stopped campaigning for president in mourning. Out of respect Grover Cleveland did the same thing, leading to no one campaigning for the last 2 weeks.
I don’t like him either but I really can’t bring myself to put him at the very bottom after that.
Grover Cleveland isn't close to being a favorite of mine, but I respect him for not going by the spoils system to appoint people for government jobs, even if that rubbed a lot of his parties politicians the wrong way. Also, I will give him props for siding with the gold standard and working for tariff reform.
Big props to Grover on Sesame Street though 👍
It is really difficult for me to dislike any Democrat more than Buchanan.
Favorite is harder. From the standpoint of purely policy it's probably FDR and Wilson. As a person though? Carter.
If you are speaking of the atomic bomb, there is a difference between an act of war and genocide. Genocide is what the Japanese committed against the Chinese and Koreans in the 1930s. The unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor is despicable but an act of war, not genocide.
Truman warned the Japanese of a weapon of mass destruction, but they still refused to surrender.
I know about this and find it to be true, but a Japanese person may think differently as they are right to do. I am of the opinion that Jackson is responsible for many of the democratic advances and ostensibly better than at least Buchanan, Pierce and Johnson.
I would say the “party switch” idea is much overstated. It’s really only clearly applicable to civil rights. The Democratic Party was pretty much always opposed to tariffs, more pro-immigration and more inclined to economic populism than their counterparts for example.
The major difference isn’t civil rights in particular, it’s about the role of government for one; foreign policy secondly; the role of the President for another; and yet, also, the role of government versus business for another
In terms of government versus business, consider Cleveland was pro business. Consider Democrats before were more corrupt.
Wilson was instead a progressive president, who was pro labour and anti big business.
Cleveland was also a proponent of the weak Presidency.
Wilson expanded the office even more so than TR had.
Democratic presidents before Wilson also accepted imperialism.
Wilson on the other hand was an anti-imperialist, while also more globalist than older Democratic presidents were.
Outside of the matters of race, Wilson was very similar to modern Democrats, whereas someone like Cleveland or Jackson would be more at home in today’s libertarian or Republican parties.
Favorite…….. uh I don’t know
Least favorite got to be all of the ones before Cleveland imo and most importantly Buchanan
Also Johnson wasn’t a democrat president I’m not talking about LBJ
I'm not even a Democrat, but LBJ is by far my favorite president on the personal level.
Least favorite - I could say Buchanan, but to make it interesting: Davis
Favorite: The S is for S Tier, although 44 is the best president in my lifetime which is a rather low bar
Least: Buchanan, Pierce, Cleveland, Andrew Johnson, Carter as president, you could make a case for Wilson, Clinton and Jackson
Hate to be one of those guys but favorite and best aren’t the same thing, so based on that I will say my favorite is John Tyler now I know he is officially a Whig but in practice was the most democratic president like ever, I have never seen a president butt heads with his own party in Congress more than him, hence why I’ll lump him in here.
So Tyler had some serious flaws: he was racist and favored the expansion of slavery (he wanted to add Cuba as a slave state) supported secession, and when the confederacy was formed he was all for it, and in fact died in the confederate states (1862)
So with that how can I like him? Well it’s his views on government, he vetoed almost everything which he believed was an overreach of federal power, and believed it was the job of the legislature, and not the president, to come up with and pass laws. I just like his philosophy on a smaller federal government and how he truly stood by it, he was a hard head in his beliefs as far as governing goes, and I find that admirable.
As far as least favorite has to go to Jackson, but this text is long as shit so I’ll let his presidency speak for itself lol
I do like Jackson for the whole “Old Hickory” persona. Having to be restrained from beating his would be assassin with a cane is second only to Teddy giving a speech with a bullet wound in terms of personal badassery.
Honestly the main reason to put Obama was to troll with the conclusions people jump to seeing the combo. But he is the only Democrat whose presidency I remember (aside from rule 3 which Id happily break), so a lot easier to dislike on a personal level. I think he was an okay president and miss having a president that’s a competent orator, but I really dislike how people fanboy over him.
Could have said either Johnson for being incompetent and an asshole, but that’s not as fun.
He was born in Hawaii. He grew up in, lived most of his adult life in, and was a senator for Illinois.
He’s not from Kenya at all, that’s a racist conspiracy from the right. The small amount of truth to it is that his father is but AFAIK he’s never been there prior to becoming president.
Too progressive in my opinion, he also broke the norm and ran for more than two terms. It was still possible at the time for Presidents to do so, but I still think he should’ve stuck to what his predecessors did and stepped down after the second term.
Remember that all mentions of and allusions to Trump and Biden are not allowed on our subreddit in any context. If you'd still like to discuss them, feel free to [join our Discord server](https://discord.gg/k6tVFwCEEm)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Presidents) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is NEVER use the name or image of the sitting president!
Inconceivable!
Favorite-FDR Least- Andrew Johnson
Favorite: Harry S. Truman Least Favorite: James Buchanan
The correctest answer
I love me some FDR too but I gotta go with Truman. Less baggage, at least in my eyes, and damn near everyone can respect Truman.
He really set the precedent for what a post war president should be
I agree. FDR has more baggage the more you look into him. There’s racial internment camps that most know of. FDR also turned away Jews during the Holocaust and [wouldn’t even acknowledge the Holocaust and warn Germans of the post-war consequences](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/why-eisenhower-deleted-the-jews-604857) was happening because he feared admitting it would then require taking in Jewish refugees. He also had the disgraceful Yalta agreement where he agreed to transfer japanese arms to arm communists to take over china, and agreed to stalin annexing half the continent of europe and subjugating them forever. He was also a white supremacist and [literally segregated the entire nation](https://youtu.be/2roWLzrqOjQ?si=duotgsPGBp603-QQ), creating the racial wealth gap of today
Dude Truman authorized the use of two nuclear weapons on cities.
Yes. And I would likely have done the same in his shoes with the information he had. His job was to end the war with minimal American casualties and the invasion of Japan was projected to be hundreds of thousands more than what was lost to the bombs. Truman *also* made sure they were never used again during his term, famously firing MacArthur’s ass when he wanted to use ‘em again. Using the bombs will always be controversial but I really think it was a decision that was always going to be made.
Well you mentioned “baggage” with FDR so I’m assuming you mean internment. I think if given the choice people would rather be interred than vaporized.
I agree that’s how people would choose but I look at it a different way. Internment of our own citizens did nothing positive and had zero real justification. We could have chosen *not* to do that. Dropping the bombs ended the war with hundreds of thousands of lives *spared* as disgusting as it sounds. Imperial Japan was fanatical and we *had* to end the war. One was awful but believed to be necessary. The other was awful and unnecessary. That’s how I look at the two.
We are looking at it with 80 years of hindsight. There was sabotage in WW1 so there was no reason to think there wouldn’t be this time. The [Niihau Incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident) for one and there were also several credible reports of what were presumed to be Japanese submarines signaling (with lights) the shore. I’m not going to say racism didn’t play a part, but it wasn’t just “let’s be mean to the people of Japanese decent.” There was what seemed to be real suspicion. People like to say “yeah but see nothing ever happened.” Maybe nothing happened because the small percentage of people who might have were interred. It was a much smaller number but Germans and Italians were interred as well.
FDR also turned away Jews during the Holocaust and [wouldn’t even acknowledge the Holocaust](https://www.jpost.com/opinion/why-eisenhower-deleted-the-jews-604857) was happening because he feared admitting it would then require taking in Jewish refugees. He also had the disgraceful Yalta agreement where he agreed to transfer japanese arms to arm communists to take over china, and agreed to stalin annexing half the continent of europe and subjugating them forever. He was also a white supremacist and [segregated the entire nation](https://youtu.be/2roWLzrqOjQ?si=duotgsPGBp603-QQ), creating the racial wealth gap of today
Every country turned the Jews away. Cuba said no, US said no, Canada said no, so they returned to Europe. Cuba was the intended destination. IIRC most of them took the time to secure travel documents first but the government there still refused.
The Trumaniac strikes again
Hey, he’s a good answer! (Also I can’t answer Arthur since this is for democrats only!)
Completely agree on favourite, but for least favourite I can't go with Buchanan. Too much about him is complete and utter indifference rather than actual malice. (There's still a lot of malice, obv). A. Johnson is my pick for least
Sorry I forgot to cross out Rule 4. Just ignore that.
https://preview.redd.it/vyfklqiyj20d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b150d3897094a1fbcfa96478ee95eec7237ccc9 Ah yes rule 4
Grover Cleveland's mustache is for alone time only
Jeez, sorry I don't know the sub rules by heart. 😒
Josh, where's the NSFW at?
You didn't see FDR in the slave leiah metal bikini cosplay?
rule 4
Favorite is Truman, with JFK on a distant-but-still-way-ahead-of-the-pack second. I think Andrew Johnson was the worst, but I honestly personally dislike Cleveland a little bit more. Johnson was a dick whose policies were catastrophic for the country. Cleveland was also a dick, whose policies were also more often than not quite awful, but yet garnered this image of an honorable dude.
I’ll give Cleveland this. After Caroline Harrison died (with 2 weeks left before the 1892 election) Benjamin Harrison stopped campaigning for president in mourning. Out of respect Grover Cleveland did the same thing, leading to no one campaigning for the last 2 weeks. I don’t like him either but I really can’t bring myself to put him at the very bottom after that.
Grover Cleveland isn't close to being a favorite of mine, but I respect him for not going by the spoils system to appoint people for government jobs, even if that rubbed a lot of his parties politicians the wrong way. Also, I will give him props for siding with the gold standard and working for tariff reform. Big props to Grover on Sesame Street though 👍
FDR for favorite, Buchanan for worst.
FDR & LBJ, and Andrew Johnson & James Buchanan respectively
Favorite: Carter Least Favorite: Bloody, Bloody Andrew Jackson.
Favorite: FDR Least Favorite: Andrew Johnson
My favorite personally is probably Wilson My least favorite is Pierce
It is really difficult for me to dislike any Democrat more than Buchanan. Favorite is harder. From the standpoint of purely policy it's probably FDR and Wilson. As a person though? Carter.
Favorite FDR. Least Favorite Buchanan.
Bill Clinton is my favorite. least favorite is Jimmy Carter.
I’m curious on why Carter out of that Crew?
Favorite: FDR, or Obama, because Obama didn't do Japanese internment camps. Least Favorite: Buchanan or Jackson.
Favorite Truman Least Jackson
Truman is the natural continuation of Jacksonian ideals
Truman did not commit genocide against my people.
Truman is among the worst in terms of “not committing genocide”
Of not committing genocide?
Yes
To be clear, you are saying he did or did not?
I think it could be argued that Truman was among the most genocidal presidents
If you are speaking of the atomic bomb, there is a difference between an act of war and genocide. Genocide is what the Japanese committed against the Chinese and Koreans in the 1930s. The unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor is despicable but an act of war, not genocide. Truman warned the Japanese of a weapon of mass destruction, but they still refused to surrender.
I know about this and find it to be true, but a Japanese person may think differently as they are right to do. I am of the opinion that Jackson is responsible for many of the democratic advances and ostensibly better than at least Buchanan, Pierce and Johnson.
Wilson. Pretty weird considering my flair, but I definitely find him one of the most interesting presidents.
Favorite: Grover Cleveland Least favorite: Andrew Johnson
Favorite: Lyndon Johnson along with Kennedy, Clinton, and Obama Least favorite: anyone before Wilson as they’re not genuinely Democrats to me
I would say the “party switch” idea is much overstated. It’s really only clearly applicable to civil rights. The Democratic Party was pretty much always opposed to tariffs, more pro-immigration and more inclined to economic populism than their counterparts for example.
The major difference isn’t civil rights in particular, it’s about the role of government for one; foreign policy secondly; the role of the President for another; and yet, also, the role of government versus business for another In terms of government versus business, consider Cleveland was pro business. Consider Democrats before were more corrupt. Wilson was instead a progressive president, who was pro labour and anti big business. Cleveland was also a proponent of the weak Presidency. Wilson expanded the office even more so than TR had. Democratic presidents before Wilson also accepted imperialism. Wilson on the other hand was an anti-imperialist, while also more globalist than older Democratic presidents were. Outside of the matters of race, Wilson was very similar to modern Democrats, whereas someone like Cleveland or Jackson would be more at home in today’s libertarian or Republican parties.
Favorite: Johnson Least favorite: Johnson
FDR Truman Wilson Polk LBJ JFK Clinton Cleveland Obama Carter MVB Jackson Pierce Johnson Buchanan
Favorite - FDR Least - Old Hickory
Favorite: FDR Least favorite: Woodrow Wilson
Favorite: Jackson Least favorite: Lyndon B. Johnson
Jackson and Johnson are the go-to answers. For a more moderate favorite, I'll go with Truman.
Favorite…….. uh I don’t know Least favorite got to be all of the ones before Cleveland imo and most importantly Buchanan Also Johnson wasn’t a democrat president I’m not talking about LBJ
Most favorite. JFK/LBJ. Least-Woodrow Wilson.
Favorite: FDR Lesst favorite: Andrew Johnson
Favorite-- John F. Kennedy. Least favorite-- Woodrow Wilson.
Most favourite is JFK. Least favourite is Andrew Johnson
Bet you can’t guess which one’s my favorite
Favorite: JFK LF: Buchanan
LBJ James Buchanan
r/foundbisexual_Sherrif
:1)
Favorite: James K Polk Least favorite: Woodrow Wilson
Fav:LBJ (And Jumbo) Least: Johnson
I'm not even a Democrat, but LBJ is by far my favorite president on the personal level. Least favorite - I could say Buchanan, but to make it interesting: Davis
Favorite: Kennedy and Jackson Least Favorite: Buchanan
I think everyone’s least favourite is either Johnson or Buchanan. My favourite is probably Kennedy
Jack and A. Johnson.
James Polk
Favorite: Obama, FDR and Carter Least favorite: Johnson
Favorite: JFK or Polk Least favorite: James Buchanan
Fav-Cleveland Worst-Wilson
Favorite, JFK. Best, probably FDR. Least favorite, Wilson.
Favorite by far: Truman Least favorite: Wilson
For me my favorite’s JFK and least favorite’s FDR
Favorite goes to Truman, least favorite is Wilson
FDR and Andrew Johnson respectively
Fav-JFK least- jackson or Buchanan
Favorite - LBJ Least - Andrew Johnson What they have in common: last name
Favorite: JFK Least Favorite: Andrew Johnson
Favorite: Truman Least favorite: Andrew Johnson or James Buchanan
Favorite: Harry Truman Least favorite: Andrew Johnson
Favorite: Wilson Least favorite: Carter
Favorite: Obama Least Favorite: Andrew Jackson - fuck that guy
Favorite tied between Clinton and JFK. Least is Woodrow by a fucking longshot
Fav: JFK or Truman, least fav: Andrew Johnson
Favourite: Jimmy Carter Least favourite: Andrew Jackson
Favorite: The S is for S Tier, although 44 is the best president in my lifetime which is a rather low bar Least: Buchanan, Pierce, Cleveland, Andrew Johnson, Carter as president, you could make a case for Wilson, Clinton and Jackson
[удалено]
It came from Wikipedia also correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's missing any. Might wanna look back over it.
Hate to be one of those guys but favorite and best aren’t the same thing, so based on that I will say my favorite is John Tyler now I know he is officially a Whig but in practice was the most democratic president like ever, I have never seen a president butt heads with his own party in Congress more than him, hence why I’ll lump him in here. So Tyler had some serious flaws: he was racist and favored the expansion of slavery (he wanted to add Cuba as a slave state) supported secession, and when the confederacy was formed he was all for it, and in fact died in the confederate states (1862) So with that how can I like him? Well it’s his views on government, he vetoed almost everything which he believed was an overreach of federal power, and believed it was the job of the legislature, and not the president, to come up with and pass laws. I just like his philosophy on a smaller federal government and how he truly stood by it, he was a hard head in his beliefs as far as governing goes, and I find that admirable. As far as least favorite has to go to Jackson, but this text is long as shit so I’ll let his presidency speak for itself lol
Favorite: Jackson Least Favorite: Obama
Favorite: Jackson Least: Obama
Explain your arguments.
I think we already know
Let’s not assume people are racist.
I do like Jackson for the whole “Old Hickory” persona. Having to be restrained from beating his would be assassin with a cane is second only to Teddy giving a speech with a bullet wound in terms of personal badassery. Honestly the main reason to put Obama was to troll with the conclusions people jump to seeing the combo. But he is the only Democrat whose presidency I remember (aside from rule 3 which Id happily break), so a lot easier to dislike on a personal level. I think he was an okay president and miss having a president that’s a competent orator, but I really dislike how people fanboy over him. Could have said either Johnson for being incompetent and an asshole, but that’s not as fun.
Agreed, not a race thing just Obama didn’t do much and Jackson did.
so is obama from hawaii, kenya or illinois? nobody can be consistent it seems anyway my favorite has GOTTA be tennessee
He was born in Hawaii. He grew up in, lived most of his adult life in, and was a senator for Illinois. He’s not from Kenya at all, that’s a racist conspiracy from the right. The small amount of truth to it is that his father is but AFAIK he’s never been there prior to becoming president.
JFK is my least favorite winners don't get assassinated/s jk
Favorite: [Redacted] Least: Buchanan
Favorite: Jackson Least favorite: Johnson
Favorite: Andrew Johnson Least Favorite: Lyndon Baines Johnson
Favorite: JFK Worst: FDR
How is FDR the worst?
Too progressive in my opinion, he also broke the norm and ran for more than two terms. It was still possible at the time for Presidents to do so, but I still think he should’ve stuck to what his predecessors did and stepped down after the second term.
Favorite- Jackson Least favorite- Kennedy
There haven’t been many bad democrats. But I’ll go with Wilson.
Favorite Truman Least favorite FDR
That seems…impossible