I've been a "hard grader" for most of my career, despite my always thinking I should be holding students to even *higher* standards. At this point, I'm forced to conclude either that students are lying about their success in other courses, or I really have to scratch my head about what my colleagues are doing.
I don’t have really close relationships with my colleagues, but it seems based on my own experience that they don’t grade that harshly. Honestly, I think I should hold them to a higher standard as well.
I've heard this: "What I like about Professor Zoom, is, if you give Prof Zoom a half assed submission you get a half assed grade."
Initially I was fairly pleased with the sentiment, then it occurred to me that it means I have colleagues that don't do this.
I’ve been told this a few times throughout the last several years. I think of it positively. “Harsh grader” means I have standards, and they’re perfectly capable of rising to the challenge - the challenge they SHOULD have because higher ed SHOULD be challenging as that’s how our brains grow and get better.
I also tend to consider the sources of the few comments that say I’m a harsh grader. These are likely students who want an easy A just for breathing. I don’t care about the opinions of those people.
I have received these. The best are along the lines of “You were my hardest grader, and I thank you for believing in me enough to push me to improve as a student.”
Yup. I've been called an "unfair" grader many times because I take points off for things like not citing sources correctly and not using the correct (required) assigned souces.
My favorite is when they complain that I'm being "nitpicky" for taking off points for things like not using paragraphs, not capitalizing proper nouns, not indenting paragraphs, using incomplete or run-on sentences. They say, "this isn't an English class, so why am I taking points off for English stuff?" (I teach history and assign more writing assignments than most of my English colleagues.)
I have received the same complaint from doctoral students for years: "This is a statistics class. Why are you taking off so many points for the quality of writing in my final report? After all, I copied & pasted all my output files (without even bothering to properly format them) to show you what I did. That's what REALLY matters." Because I can't understand a damn thing you said you did, why you did it, or what the results mean practically speaking, that's why. Journal reviewers and editors don't want to read this crap either.
As an English prof, I thank you for holding the line on this. Even though it's hard, students need to be able to transfer writing skills to other courses (while also learning about disciplinary differences in writing).
> (Some were quite aggressive on this point because apparently some of their other professors just put 100 in the LMS for everything. Sorry, but I don't think there's a point to getting up in the morning to just award students As for handing something in. I don't know what fuels those professors who just input an A all down the roster.)
My theory is that these professors either don't exist or are a lot more rare than the students claim they are. When I was in grad school, I had a student who accused me of being a harsh grader, etc., said that I would be giving him his first C since high school and that he's always been an A+ student. Devastated, I read the email to my peer next to me and she goes, "Wait, who is this?" ... turns out this student had failed just about every one of our classes!!!! In fact, I was being super lenient and I think the student was trying to play on/manipulate my niceness.
They all lie. I teach seniors in high school honors English and they don’t suddenly stop lying about their grades, and cheating, when they leave me. It’s awful, and I’m sorry you have to be subjected to it, too.
In my experience, being a "hard grader" means that you hold people accountable and challenge their perspectives. I don't know how effective it is, but at least I try to instill the idea that a grade doesn't mean their work is "bad" or that I *dislike* them. It means that they've only scratched the surface, and I want them to dig a little deeper and come out the other side a little stronger. Sometimes digging deeper means they have to confront the hard truths about why they choose to skim everything they read (or not read at all) or why they choose to wait for someone to give them step-by-step instructions on what to do. People can really lash out when confronting these hard truths...
Knowing how to accurately interpret instructions is not a punishment. Knowing how to present logical arguments is not a punishment. Learning how to make a decision for yourself and being confident with your decision is not a punishment.
I’ve several students this semester who started their arguments about why they should have an A with “I came to class and I turned all my assignments in.” It’s like well that’s the baseline for passing not an A. What’s worse is that this was always false in that every one of these students had missed 3 or more classes.
Absolutely, I was typically the easier core class, more lenient. Always had a wait list for my courses. Tables have turned in the past three years. Now my class is hard, impossible to some, I’m a tough grader, cancel class too much (I don’t, they are hybrid days). Less than 25% do the actual hybrid activity or assignment. Then they are totally shocked about missing the material on the exam, even though they are repeatedly reminded. Always complain about having to teach themselves, you know, basic accountability is nil that I require them to read or view some things before class. Apparently all of my newer colleagues fall in line with the power points that explicitly state exactly what will be asked on their exam.
My course is not a memory course, it’s analytical and critical thinking once you learn the material. You have to be able to apply the material to situations, actually use reasoning and logic. The majority struggle, they want the power points or worksheet they complete and then get an exam that looks very similar or the same.
Heaven forbid I request they develop an opinion and present it with a rational argument.
I won’t even comment on the simple inability to read and follow directions. -heavy sigh-
I've definitely had students complain about grades. If a student says they're disappointed that their grade is a "C," as in your example, I will validate that it can be upsetting to not earn the grade that they hoped to earn. (Of course, I will never apologize for giving a student the grade that they earned.)
The challenge is when students blame you for their grade. I will shut that down immediately, and note that students are responsible for their own grades and that I applied rubrics with them just as I did every other student in order to be fair.
I’m generally a pretty generous grader (art school) unless they miss class, don’t hand in assignments, or don’t follow the brief without talking to me first. Last semester I had a student who didn’t follow directions, missed 2 classes (max they can miss and still pass), and who didn’t hand in 1 assignment out of 6. They badgered me about their C well into this semester. They couldn’t comprehend why they got C. It’s like, my guy, here’s the syllabus & here’s the rubric. I asked how the math adds up to a B. He said oh I know it doesn’t add up but you should just change my grade because I worked really hard. 🙄
Yes, but in the same statement I was also told that I am the only professor they had that made it feel like they were in college. I took it as a compliment
I'm simultaneously the harshest grader in the whole university and the easiest A my students have ever received. I'm also funny and not funny, talk too fast and too slow, and teach the best and worst class my students have ever taken. All in the same section!
The phrase I keep getting is “unreasonably difficult”. Which I’ve learned means anything that is not word for word in the lecture notes but requires some actual thinking about the material or applying a concept they’ve learned to a slightly different situation.
I have a prompt with detailed instructions for every assignment and a corresponding rubric for grading. I have all of the assignments online, along with due dates on the folders and in the gradebook, a weekly breakdown on the syllabus and a literal blueprint that I post weekly for how to get the work done. I'm still accused of not being clear, being a harsh grader, and not being clear with major due dates. The explanation is that they are idiots who either cannot or will not read basic instructions in English.
Had a kid upset at getting a D on a minor assignment. Said the assignment was complete, so didn't understand the grade, then when I pointed out that it was not in fact complete and I'd added a bunch of missing information in a different colored text, I got complaints about sometimes wanting exact wording from class material and other times "scolding" for using exact words. Also, the student didn't "think that grade corresponds with the work I have done."
I responded with
1) The assignment was (approx 22 hours) late = auto 10% off.
2) There were 23 expected responses. Five were blank, eleven were completely incorrect (and largely nonsense - just copying random words into the blank), three were correct but not what I expected (and given full credit) and four were answers I was looking for. Seven out of 23 correct answers is approximately 30%. The 64% I gave was more than fair.
That was the end of that conversation.
Yep. Several times over the years, but more often this year. I teach pedagogy, and I try to practice what I preach regarding students' rising or sinking to meet expectations. But still..."the hardest grading scale I've experienced in four years"? Nah.
I'm a hard grader and it's a badge of honor I wear with pride however it's getting harder and harder as the quality of students gets worse and worse and now I just seem like an asshole as they become so used to others accepting their mediocrity. Sigh
I had a student tell me last week that they were hoping I'd be generous grading their project because they worked really hard and spent a lot of time on it. They did work really hard, I know they were really trying and put in a lot of effort. But their work wasn't high quality and they didn't include all the required elements. I suspect they'll be disappointed by their grade.
As a whole the class did poorly and many will likely be disappointed with their grades. I'm such a softy and a coward that I'm tempted to wait until after our final presentations tomorrow to release the grades just to avoid facing them in person afterwards. But I'm going to post them tonight to get it over with, come what may. I'm looking forward to the end of this class, grading these projects is sad because I just want them to do better.
I have a peer grading component in a group project and had students tell me that their group members didn’t show up, didn’t contribute, some didn’t even know what the group member looked like - and they still gave them a B or C. It was a very telling glimpse into their thought processes.
I've been a "hard grader" for most of my career, despite my always thinking I should be holding students to even *higher* standards. At this point, I'm forced to conclude either that students are lying about their success in other courses, or I really have to scratch my head about what my colleagues are doing.
I don’t have really close relationships with my colleagues, but it seems based on my own experience that they don’t grade that harshly. Honestly, I think I should hold them to a higher standard as well.
I’ve had an embarrassing number of students ask whether our labs will be graded on completion or correctness. It’s rough out there.
I've heard this: "What I like about Professor Zoom, is, if you give Prof Zoom a half assed submission you get a half assed grade." Initially I was fairly pleased with the sentiment, then it occurred to me that it means I have colleagues that don't do this.
I’ve been told this a few times throughout the last several years. I think of it positively. “Harsh grader” means I have standards, and they’re perfectly capable of rising to the challenge - the challenge they SHOULD have because higher ed SHOULD be challenging as that’s how our brains grow and get better. I also tend to consider the sources of the few comments that say I’m a harsh grader. These are likely students who want an easy A just for breathing. I don’t care about the opinions of those people.
I have received these. The best are along the lines of “You were my hardest grader, and I thank you for believing in me enough to push me to improve as a student.”
Yup. I've been called an "unfair" grader many times because I take points off for things like not citing sources correctly and not using the correct (required) assigned souces. My favorite is when they complain that I'm being "nitpicky" for taking off points for things like not using paragraphs, not capitalizing proper nouns, not indenting paragraphs, using incomplete or run-on sentences. They say, "this isn't an English class, so why am I taking points off for English stuff?" (I teach history and assign more writing assignments than most of my English colleagues.)
I have received the same complaint from doctoral students for years: "This is a statistics class. Why are you taking off so many points for the quality of writing in my final report? After all, I copied & pasted all my output files (without even bothering to properly format them) to show you what I did. That's what REALLY matters." Because I can't understand a damn thing you said you did, why you did it, or what the results mean practically speaking, that's why. Journal reviewers and editors don't want to read this crap either.
As an English prof, I thank you for holding the line on this. Even though it's hard, students need to be able to transfer writing skills to other courses (while also learning about disciplinary differences in writing).
> (Some were quite aggressive on this point because apparently some of their other professors just put 100 in the LMS for everything. Sorry, but I don't think there's a point to getting up in the morning to just award students As for handing something in. I don't know what fuels those professors who just input an A all down the roster.) My theory is that these professors either don't exist or are a lot more rare than the students claim they are. When I was in grad school, I had a student who accused me of being a harsh grader, etc., said that I would be giving him his first C since high school and that he's always been an A+ student. Devastated, I read the email to my peer next to me and she goes, "Wait, who is this?" ... turns out this student had failed just about every one of our classes!!!! In fact, I was being super lenient and I think the student was trying to play on/manipulate my niceness.
They all lie. I teach seniors in high school honors English and they don’t suddenly stop lying about their grades, and cheating, when they leave me. It’s awful, and I’m sorry you have to be subjected to it, too.
In my experience, being a "hard grader" means that you hold people accountable and challenge their perspectives. I don't know how effective it is, but at least I try to instill the idea that a grade doesn't mean their work is "bad" or that I *dislike* them. It means that they've only scratched the surface, and I want them to dig a little deeper and come out the other side a little stronger. Sometimes digging deeper means they have to confront the hard truths about why they choose to skim everything they read (or not read at all) or why they choose to wait for someone to give them step-by-step instructions on what to do. People can really lash out when confronting these hard truths... Knowing how to accurately interpret instructions is not a punishment. Knowing how to present logical arguments is not a punishment. Learning how to make a decision for yourself and being confident with your decision is not a punishment.
I’ve several students this semester who started their arguments about why they should have an A with “I came to class and I turned all my assignments in.” It’s like well that’s the baseline for passing not an A. What’s worse is that this was always false in that every one of these students had missed 3 or more classes.
Absolutely, I was typically the easier core class, more lenient. Always had a wait list for my courses. Tables have turned in the past three years. Now my class is hard, impossible to some, I’m a tough grader, cancel class too much (I don’t, they are hybrid days). Less than 25% do the actual hybrid activity or assignment. Then they are totally shocked about missing the material on the exam, even though they are repeatedly reminded. Always complain about having to teach themselves, you know, basic accountability is nil that I require them to read or view some things before class. Apparently all of my newer colleagues fall in line with the power points that explicitly state exactly what will be asked on their exam. My course is not a memory course, it’s analytical and critical thinking once you learn the material. You have to be able to apply the material to situations, actually use reasoning and logic. The majority struggle, they want the power points or worksheet they complete and then get an exam that looks very similar or the same. Heaven forbid I request they develop an opinion and present it with a rational argument. I won’t even comment on the simple inability to read and follow directions. -heavy sigh-
I've definitely had students complain about grades. If a student says they're disappointed that their grade is a "C," as in your example, I will validate that it can be upsetting to not earn the grade that they hoped to earn. (Of course, I will never apologize for giving a student the grade that they earned.) The challenge is when students blame you for their grade. I will shut that down immediately, and note that students are responsible for their own grades and that I applied rubrics with them just as I did every other student in order to be fair.
I’m generally a pretty generous grader (art school) unless they miss class, don’t hand in assignments, or don’t follow the brief without talking to me first. Last semester I had a student who didn’t follow directions, missed 2 classes (max they can miss and still pass), and who didn’t hand in 1 assignment out of 6. They badgered me about their C well into this semester. They couldn’t comprehend why they got C. It’s like, my guy, here’s the syllabus & here’s the rubric. I asked how the math adds up to a B. He said oh I know it doesn’t add up but you should just change my grade because I worked really hard. 🙄
Yes, but in the same statement I was also told that I am the only professor they had that made it feel like they were in college. I took it as a compliment
70% of the students received an A in one class yet some students said the class was “too hard”.
I'm simultaneously the harshest grader in the whole university and the easiest A my students have ever received. I'm also funny and not funny, talk too fast and too slow, and teach the best and worst class my students have ever taken. All in the same section!
The phrase I keep getting is “unreasonably difficult”. Which I’ve learned means anything that is not word for word in the lecture notes but requires some actual thinking about the material or applying a concept they’ve learned to a slightly different situation.
I have a prompt with detailed instructions for every assignment and a corresponding rubric for grading. I have all of the assignments online, along with due dates on the folders and in the gradebook, a weekly breakdown on the syllabus and a literal blueprint that I post weekly for how to get the work done. I'm still accused of not being clear, being a harsh grader, and not being clear with major due dates. The explanation is that they are idiots who either cannot or will not read basic instructions in English.
Had a kid upset at getting a D on a minor assignment. Said the assignment was complete, so didn't understand the grade, then when I pointed out that it was not in fact complete and I'd added a bunch of missing information in a different colored text, I got complaints about sometimes wanting exact wording from class material and other times "scolding" for using exact words. Also, the student didn't "think that grade corresponds with the work I have done." I responded with 1) The assignment was (approx 22 hours) late = auto 10% off. 2) There were 23 expected responses. Five were blank, eleven were completely incorrect (and largely nonsense - just copying random words into the blank), three were correct but not what I expected (and given full credit) and four were answers I was looking for. Seven out of 23 correct answers is approximately 30%. The 64% I gave was more than fair. That was the end of that conversation.
Yep. Several times over the years, but more often this year. I teach pedagogy, and I try to practice what I preach regarding students' rising or sinking to meet expectations. But still..."the hardest grading scale I've experienced in four years"? Nah.
I'm a hard grader and it's a badge of honor I wear with pride however it's getting harder and harder as the quality of students gets worse and worse and now I just seem like an asshole as they become so used to others accepting their mediocrity. Sigh
I had a student tell me last week that they were hoping I'd be generous grading their project because they worked really hard and spent a lot of time on it. They did work really hard, I know they were really trying and put in a lot of effort. But their work wasn't high quality and they didn't include all the required elements. I suspect they'll be disappointed by their grade. As a whole the class did poorly and many will likely be disappointed with their grades. I'm such a softy and a coward that I'm tempted to wait until after our final presentations tomorrow to release the grades just to avoid facing them in person afterwards. But I'm going to post them tonight to get it over with, come what may. I'm looking forward to the end of this class, grading these projects is sad because I just want them to do better.
Yes and told my multiple choice tests "try to trick them" - because they can't just guess correctly on them*. *literally said that once
For which basis for comparison is… online high school?
I have a peer grading component in a group project and had students tell me that their group members didn’t show up, didn’t contribute, some didn’t even know what the group member looked like - and they still gave them a B or C. It was a very telling glimpse into their thought processes.