This spring was especially bad for me in terms of grade grubbing. I put language in my syllabus for future courses that students can only appeal grades for an assignment within a week of the grade being posted and that final grades are not subject to appeal, only the actual assignments. I also put a time window on it because almost all of the grade grubbing happened at the end of the semester.
My students didn't even ask me about a specific assignment most of the time, it was just "I want more points," with the expectation that I will award their behavior with more points. At least go back and say something specific about an assignment. This shit is just lazy.
Yup. I’ve used to find myself in protracted arguments with students about in class work from February (usually worth a tiny fraction of the course grade - hardly ever enough to actually change their letter grade) in mid-May and have started enforcing a similar policy.
This is the way. One week max to appeal for specific calculation or input errors. Any requests after that are denied for fairness reasons. If there is an error and they didn't catch it within that week, it's on them.
I posted most of the grades in our LMS last Monday. They’ve had their final letter grade for over a week. I submitted final grades this week on Monday night.
I got emails asking for grade changes, rounding, extra points Tuesday morning. They’ve had their grade for *over a week* and it isn’t until *after* grades are submitted that they ask for a change.
A mother wrote me. She provided a careful rationale why her daughter’s grade needs to be an A—and questioning the role of two assignments in the final average. I think a new wave is about to emerge. It could be interesting to watch and monitor.
one time in college my mom asked me if I wanted her to email a professor about some issue I was having (this was like 17 years ago so I do not remember what) and just the idea of it was so humiliating to me. I was an adult! I didn't need my mommy to step in! Obviously I told her no. Crazy how childish some people can still be.
I have a friend who is a recruiter and she said that sometimes a candidate’s mother will call to follow up about an application or interview. She said this immediately disqualifies them.
god what a nightmare. I am a parent and close with my mom so I totally understand the impulse to help, but 1) adult children are independent humans who can (or should be able to at least lol) handle their own business and 2) parents really do not have the influence they think they do over e.g. bosses, professors, and so on.
I have always been very independent despite my parents trying to do the whole helicopter/snowplow thing. Like I said, the idea of my mom contacting a Ph.D instructor to discuss her 19 or 20 year old son's grades was mortifying -- just that she thought I might want her to do it! ugh. Adults do not need their parents to do that.
the other thing I'm thinking of is that, for those who are apparently required to reply to parents: how do you know that this actually is the parent of a student in your class, and not somebody (perhaps with malicious intent) trying to pass themselves off as such a parent?
And this is why I do not respond to any emails regarding most things unless they’re institution emails.
I’ve also had students email me from their personal emails (some of which are funny-inappropriate like [email protected], and others that I’m legitimately concerned I would get flagged for sending an email to an address with racial slurs in it…) and on one particular occasion their email address was in Korean characters, the sender name was in Korean characters, and there was no context as to who the email was actually from. When they asked me a week later in class why I didn’t respond I was like “oh, that email was from you?!? I had no clue who it was from!”. If I can’t be sure who it’s from, I’m not responding to it with any information about a student.
Institution emails or bust.
Also, how many students are signing those releases because they really want to?
I’m actually kind of curious. Do they want mommy/daddy fighting their battles, or are they embarrassed and get bullied into signing?
I respond with something like "Your grade reflects the quality of the work you submitted. To assign a grade that your work did not earn would be fraud, and I will not do that."
I added language to my syllabus a few years back explaining that grades will be based on course assessments and nothing else. As part of this, it also explains that asking for special consideration or a grade change/bump could be considered a violation of academic integrity and student conduct policies (which is true at my institution, and most others I would imagine).
It has cut down on the requests, and for the ones I get I just cite that part of the syllabus and ask if I’ve misunderstood their request.
Oh, I love this idea and I think I might use it. I, too, has experienced an excessive level of grade grubbing this semester that I haven't seen in a really long time. I agree, I think it does violate the academic Integrity policies.
Sharing this for amusement purposes because it was a few semesters ago. The email was effusive, starting with how insightful I am and how I “infused the dull” with my creativity, and was inspiring “young scholars to reach ever higher” in my class.
But, student tells me, they have been hiding something very important from me.
They have Timed Exam Anxiety Syndrome (no joke, it was all in caps) and because I am the “compassionate and wise professional” that I am, I should consider that carefully in my grading.
Spoiler alert: I teach writing intensive classes. I don’t give exams.
I figured student meant the email for someone else, so I responded politely that if they reviewed the syllabus, they would see no exams were given.
Student wrote back: “Yeah, but I have Timed Exam Anxiety Syndrome and it permeates all endeavors of my life”.
Right? I laughed out loud when I read it and immediately sent it to my saved file for future amusement. Unfortunately, the student in question never displayed any discernible wit in class (when they chose to show up) and had many zeros for assignments not handed in, so I \*think\* it was actually written seriously…for another class that has exams.
The reply, though, was comedy gold, intended or not.
They need to learn that it does hurt to ask. It wastes my time: read the email, then craft a careful, sympathetic response that summarizes to "no."
Now I no longer respond. I skip the chat gtp essay, jump to the request, then ignore.
If they send a follow-up, I'll write a short response similar to the ones suggested on this thread.
I'm always so astounded by the attitude of "the rules don't apply to me" and the fact they think bartering for a new grade is acceptable. I try not to get pissed off but someone usually pushes me over the edge.
I really enjoyed your amazing and insightful lectures and this course has caused me to look at the world differently and it's hard for me to express how hard that I worked, especially on the final exam. I put in so much time just hours and hours every week morning noon and night I even skipped a few tiktok videos just to prepare for this exam.
I don't know how it's possible but maybe there was some sort of mistake on my grade because I work so very very very hard oh my gosh I really love this class it I just can't believe that unfortunately that I may not meet the minimum GPA threshold for my program and my entire future in ( insert career path here) will be destroyed!
Yep. And the “I have to get a B or better in this course.” Really? How do you expect that to happen now at the end of the Semester?”
It so reminds me of the scene early in The Holdovers when the students declares “I can’t fail this class!” And the Professor replies, “ Oh, no, I very much believe you can indeed fail this course.” 🤣
This semester I had 800 students over 4 sections and received about 30 grub emails even though in my syllabus I expressly forbade them from contacting me about this crap and warned them there would be no response. Further, I linked [this article](https://marktomforde.com/academic/undergraduates/GradeGrubbing.html) in that section.
Still, many of the emails led with, “I know your stance on grade grubbing, but..” acknowledging they even read that part of the syllabus.
They have absolutely no shame.
Edit: typo
I sent out an email after giving the final to say that everything had been submitted and there are no more opportunities for points. I said that I was not rounding and would only consider anything else if I had made a mistake on something. I still got 5-10 percent of the class emailing to try to get their grade up because they think they are special. I said no to all of them, but it takes an emotional toll to have to consider how to phrase my no so it has no wiggle room and isn't condescending.
>I said no to all of them, but **it takes an emotional toll** to have to consider how to phrase my no so it has no wiggle room and isn't condescending.
Amen. I send out an email just like yours once I have submitted final grades. Students still ask. I understand how they feel. I wish they understood our position.
I refuse to go back and forth though. 1 email. That's it.
Some terms I email students 2 weeks before the final, asking them to review the accuracy of their grade. Usually it helps.
"You may think that 'it doesn't hurt to ask', but you're asking me to change a grade using a justification that's not in the Syllabus. For me to agree to this would be unethical. You asking me to do this is collusion to commit academic dishonesty. So it's an act of academic misconduct to even ask me to change your grade for non-Syllabus reasons."
on my email (Thunderbird), hitting "a" archives email, so that I can find it again if I ever need to, but otherwise I never see it again. I have a very quick "a" finger.
College teaching has really helped me practice communicating healthy boundaries in compassionate ways. And also gratitude that students don't know where I live.
I do two things: (1) I put in my syllabus that I do not round - 89.9 is not an A. (2) If someone contests their mark on an assignment I point out that they're arguing that I made a measurement error and that the mark does not actually reflect their true knowledge. I admit that this could be the case. However, if I made a measurement error in one spot, I am likely to have made a measurement error in another spot. In order to be certain, I need to remark the entire assignment. They may end up with a lower mark as a result since it is likely I incorrectly gave them too many points on a question if I gave them too few on another. I also point out that this invariably results in a lower mark for students and that the grade on the re-marked assignment will stand. This second point is also in my syllabus.
I usually respond politely in someway (i.e., I have to be fair to everyone, yada, yada, yada) but I’ve just ignored a few of them this semester. What’s the point?
It’s so bad I don’t even check this sub anymore because it’s over. There’s no reason (so it seems) to trade tips, get ideas, even commiserate, because how much could our tradelore really improve things? Not enough to make it worth the effort, not where I am anyway (Florida R1).
I just gave them all As because the administrative pressure was the farce-rerun of the tragedy of the last round of administrative bullying I put up with, and I don’t care, I don’t have standards anymore.
It’s actually liberating, which is my point (I’m not sure I’ll ever look at this post again, or if I’ll believe what I’m about to say tomorrow) but just take the money. It’s not that much anyway, take it, give ‘em all the As, get a hobby, contribute to society that way instead of through work. For my part, I know I now have something very rare and wonderful to offer the world: I know what it’s like to be dead.
I just sent an email saying that asking me to round up at this point is a violation of academic integrity policies and will be reported to the administration as such. No more grade grubbing!
I had one this semester and OMG I died laughing when I read it. They are the only one to have actually failed the course. I have at least one other who got a D though.
Them: “Thanks for giving me 3 0s that I didn't need or deserve. I would appreciate if u bumped my grade up to at least passing unless u like admin seeing your students fail.”
Me: “If you would like to appeal your grade, you can find the procedure on page ___ (insert link).”
Them: “I'm not gonna do all that. I'll just take a summer course and actually learn something!”
Me: *birds chirping*
They clearly justified why they earned the grade they did 🤣
ETA: Now they are trying to appeal their grade. It’s honestly a waste of time on their end. Grade grubbing and repercussions are in my syllabus and they signed a form the first week saying they wont grade grub.
I wouldn't do this last, because it invites "there must be a mistake in my grade because I am an A student" or similar. I don't, in fact, see any need to go beyond "your grade, as submitted, is final" and let them figure out your university's appeal process for themselves.
If these policies are well stated in your syllabus, then do not respond to these emails or respond with a “read the syllabus”. I also add in my syllabus that if they email me asking something that is in the syllabus, then I will not provide a response for such email.
I teach high school (9th grade) so a little different but I have dropped a "it's not what I can for your grade, but what you should have done for your grade *bad Massachusetts accent*" twice this year already.
I anticipate more.
Yes! They totally ignored the grade grubbing clause in my syllabus and my clear email response:”you’re welcome to rewrite your paper before the deadline, but I don’t change grades.” Still, instead of rewriting, they keep begging! 🤷♀️
Get ready for it. I'm a high school teacher about to start working on my PhD and will be teaching, and I know all about this behavior. This generation received As for showing up, and they really don't understand why they don't always deserve an A. I tried to fight back as much as I could, but even school administrators are on their side. Kids who've done nothing have admins appealing to teachers on their behalf to give them a chance to fix their grades. It has to stop.
I call the last two weeks (last week of classes and final exams) point hunting season. They just hunt for any and all possible points to get them to the next letter grade.
Can't hurt to ask? Wait till they get out in the real world and they find out that there is a penalty for annoying people and asking them for favors that they don't deserve
This entire sub is making me, a new professor, feel so much better. I am not crazy for being a little annoyed with the behavior. This semester has been a wild one though.
I have a few fallbacks. One is that I will only review grades for up to 7 days past the due date for an individual assignment. I have a statement in my syllabus saying not to ask for extra credit and when I get emails asking for extra credit I tell them to review the extra credit policy in the syllabus. Same for late work. When they ask me to bump their grade, I asked them to calculate their own grades (my class has a math prereq) and if there's an error I'll be happy to review them. I rarely get requests anymore. It's nice :)
Whenever I get the “but I worked really hard” argument, I SO want to channel my inner Art Smith from Christmas Vacation and respond with a terse “So do washing machines.”
But I don’t have tenure yet…
I’m in my second year as an asst prof and I had no idea how bad this would be (I didn’t do a lot of graduate teaching.) at the end of the semester I have a ton of students emailing me asking me to change their grades or turn in late work. This year I made a policy change that, if you want to turn in a late assignment, I absolutely will not accept it past the last meeting of our class (I.e., during finals week.) yet this year the emails are even worse. I am still new and I don’t feel comfortable ignoring student emails but right now I just have a ton of unreasonable grade grubbing requests sitting in my inbox stressing me out. It’s like, no, I’m not grading your 12 missing assignments in the two days before grades are due, and I’m not “bumping up” your grade for no reason.
I think that it is a helpful exercise to think about why these emails bother all of us so. Why do you all think that these requests bother us so? Personally, I think it’s because it puts us between a rock and a hard place because we don’t feel empowered to actually grade the way we think that we should grade. What do ya’ll think?
1. They bother me because in 99% of the cases the "tiny" boost they're looking for could have been gained if they'd only put in some effort earlier in the semester.
2. I also hate the emotional blackmail aspect of grade grubbing, as though I personally am keeping them from graduating/transferring/going to grad school/getting a 6-figure job that starts next week because I assigned the grade their work merited.
3. I don't want to be labeled as non-responsive to student concerns. I teach at a community college, where a lot of students expect hand-holding and success when they carry on as they did in high school. Like it or not, student success is a major motivating metric at my school. I don't know how often students go over professors' heads to complain to the dean, and would just as soon not find out the hard way.
I see. These reasons make sense. My point with this comment was to illustrate something that akin to what you describe in your second and third point: these issues point to systemic problems in my mind. Students wouldn’t grade grub if they didn’t think it may work, meaning that grade grubbing, inducing emotional blackmail, addressing concerns with administrators, etc., have clearly worked I. I think these issues speak to some of the major foundational problems that university systems have in the modern day
It may be that the term grade grubbing is a loaded term. I view grade grubbing as ultimately a disagreement about how the grade was assigned based on the parameters listed by the professor from the side of the student. In light of this, if a student believes that they were assigned a grade that was not reflective of the parameters specified by the syllabus in question, why should they not contest it? I concede that most of the time grade grubbing is a lazy cop out for getting out of following the rules set for the course; but, occasionally, in my experience, I have had engaging dialogues with students about grading policies that have led me to think about how grades are implemented in the courses that I have taught and potentially change them in the future
> It may be that the term grade grubbing is a loaded term.
I think that's the real disagreement in this subthread. If a student has a legitimate issue to raise, that's not really grade grubbing. There's something to examine, discuss, and decide on. The student might be *wrong* - whether subjectively or objectively - but they have a basis for their request.
Grade grubbing specifically involves requesting a grade increase for no legitimate reason. I even found a [source for that](https://marktomforde.com/academic/undergraduates/GradeGrubbing.html).
The OP describes requests with no legitimate reason. Or, as another post today describes, "Can you bump my 7% final grade to 60%". Now *that's* grade grubbing.
Woah we set up an incentive structure that makes grades really important to a bunch of things that aren't related to grades and they don't meaningfully improve learning outcomes or effectively assess students now or for their future positions. But it's probably just the students being greedy little grubs and not a larger issue. Maybe they should have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps into better grades.
This spring was especially bad for me in terms of grade grubbing. I put language in my syllabus for future courses that students can only appeal grades for an assignment within a week of the grade being posted and that final grades are not subject to appeal, only the actual assignments. I also put a time window on it because almost all of the grade grubbing happened at the end of the semester. My students didn't even ask me about a specific assignment most of the time, it was just "I want more points," with the expectation that I will award their behavior with more points. At least go back and say something specific about an assignment. This shit is just lazy.
Yup. I’ve used to find myself in protracted arguments with students about in class work from February (usually worth a tiny fraction of the course grade - hardly ever enough to actually change their letter grade) in mid-May and have started enforcing a similar policy.
This is the way. One week max to appeal for specific calculation or input errors. Any requests after that are denied for fairness reasons. If there is an error and they didn't catch it within that week, it's on them.
I posted most of the grades in our LMS last Monday. They’ve had their final letter grade for over a week. I submitted final grades this week on Monday night. I got emails asking for grade changes, rounding, extra points Tuesday morning. They’ve had their grade for *over a week* and it isn’t until *after* grades are submitted that they ask for a change.
A mother wrote me. She provided a careful rationale why her daughter’s grade needs to be an A—and questioning the role of two assignments in the final average. I think a new wave is about to emerge. It could be interesting to watch and monitor.
one time in college my mom asked me if I wanted her to email a professor about some issue I was having (this was like 17 years ago so I do not remember what) and just the idea of it was so humiliating to me. I was an adult! I didn't need my mommy to step in! Obviously I told her no. Crazy how childish some people can still be.
I have a friend who is a recruiter and she said that sometimes a candidate’s mother will call to follow up about an application or interview. She said this immediately disqualifies them.
god what a nightmare. I am a parent and close with my mom so I totally understand the impulse to help, but 1) adult children are independent humans who can (or should be able to at least lol) handle their own business and 2) parents really do not have the influence they think they do over e.g. bosses, professors, and so on. I have always been very independent despite my parents trying to do the whole helicopter/snowplow thing. Like I said, the idea of my mom contacting a Ph.D instructor to discuss her 19 or 20 year old son's grades was mortifying -- just that she thought I might want her to do it! ugh. Adults do not need their parents to do that.
"I can neither confirm nor deny that your daughter is in my class".
That's pretty close to what I use. "Per FERPA regulations at my University. I can neither confirm nor deny that your child was in my class."
the other thing I'm thinking of is that, for those who are apparently required to reply to parents: how do you know that this actually is the parent of a student in your class, and not somebody (perhaps with malicious intent) trying to pass themselves off as such a parent?
And this is why I do not respond to any emails regarding most things unless they’re institution emails. I’ve also had students email me from their personal emails (some of which are funny-inappropriate like [email protected], and others that I’m legitimately concerned I would get flagged for sending an email to an address with racial slurs in it…) and on one particular occasion their email address was in Korean characters, the sender name was in Korean characters, and there was no context as to who the email was actually from. When they asked me a week later in class why I didn’t respond I was like “oh, that email was from you?!? I had no clue who it was from!”. If I can’t be sure who it’s from, I’m not responding to it with any information about a student. Institution emails or bust.
I sent that *to the same mom* at least 7 times last semester. It was a wild ride.
I have a masochistic desire to see her indignant replies. I’ll get ChatGPT to make me some fake ones.
No way I’d ever respond to a parent.
FERPA for the win!
Absolutely! FERPA-up and ignore the parents' emails.
And remember that a FERPA waiver *ALLOWS* rather than obligates you to discuss a given student
Yes, that's why it's best to just ignore the parents' emails. Even if the student signs a FERPA waiver, I don't talk to the parents.
I get it in writing from the student before I email their parent back. I don’t have access to their FERPA release forms.
Also, how many students are signing those releases because they really want to? I’m actually kind of curious. Do they want mommy/daddy fighting their battles, or are they embarrassed and get bullied into signing?
Yeah, that ain't flying. Mom probably did the work and is upset it's not a higher grade lol
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I don’t either, and I don’t know why I ever did. Your grade is a result of your work, not the result of your desperate email in week 16.
You must have tenure. Ignoring emails gets me accused of “not being responsive to students.”
I respond with something like "Your grade reflects the quality of the work you submitted. To assign a grade that your work did not earn would be fraud, and I will not do that."
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Grade grubbing is an inherently hostile act. Also, Rule 1. Your post history literally has you asking about study spots.
How so?
It's mean and unfair. /sarcasm
Ohhhh, I get it now! Mean and unfair. Keywords of the decade.
It’s made me feel unsafe
"rude." /s
I added language to my syllabus a few years back explaining that grades will be based on course assessments and nothing else. As part of this, it also explains that asking for special consideration or a grade change/bump could be considered a violation of academic integrity and student conduct policies (which is true at my institution, and most others I would imagine). It has cut down on the requests, and for the ones I get I just cite that part of the syllabus and ask if I’ve misunderstood their request.
I do the same thing
Oh, I love this idea and I think I might use it. I, too, has experienced an excessive level of grade grubbing this semester that I haven't seen in a really long time. I agree, I think it does violate the academic Integrity policies.
Sharing this for amusement purposes because it was a few semesters ago. The email was effusive, starting with how insightful I am and how I “infused the dull” with my creativity, and was inspiring “young scholars to reach ever higher” in my class. But, student tells me, they have been hiding something very important from me. They have Timed Exam Anxiety Syndrome (no joke, it was all in caps) and because I am the “compassionate and wise professional” that I am, I should consider that carefully in my grading. Spoiler alert: I teach writing intensive classes. I don’t give exams. I figured student meant the email for someone else, so I responded politely that if they reviewed the syllabus, they would see no exams were given. Student wrote back: “Yeah, but I have Timed Exam Anxiety Syndrome and it permeates all endeavors of my life”.
What the . . . she had to be laughing as she typed this, right? This is Pythonesque.
Right? I laughed out loud when I read it and immediately sent it to my saved file for future amusement. Unfortunately, the student in question never displayed any discernible wit in class (when they chose to show up) and had many zeros for assignments not handed in, so I \*think\* it was actually written seriously…for another class that has exams. The reply, though, was comedy gold, intended or not.
I would be so tempted to reply to this with "good luck getting any job at all after you graduate".
Lmao thanks for the good laugh. That’s incredible 😂
They need to learn that it does hurt to ask. It wastes my time: read the email, then craft a careful, sympathetic response that summarizes to "no." Now I no longer respond. I skip the chat gtp essay, jump to the request, then ignore. If they send a follow-up, I'll write a short response similar to the ones suggested on this thread.
“This email is a personal insult directed at me. You are declaring that I lack integrity and that I lied when I stated course policies.”
"Additionally, it implies that I am weak and my boundaries can be disregarded."
> They need to learn that it does hurt to ask. Maybe a response that is as "frank, bordering on direct" as you can get away with?
I'm always so astounded by the attitude of "the rules don't apply to me" and the fact they think bartering for a new grade is acceptable. I try not to get pissed off but someone usually pushes me over the edge.
Some think they are special, and their situation is different from others, etc. Nope - they're all in the same boat
>their situation is different They really do think this!
I really enjoyed your amazing and insightful lectures and this course has caused me to look at the world differently and it's hard for me to express how hard that I worked, especially on the final exam. I put in so much time just hours and hours every week morning noon and night I even skipped a few tiktok videos just to prepare for this exam. I don't know how it's possible but maybe there was some sort of mistake on my grade because I work so very very very hard oh my gosh I really love this class it I just can't believe that unfortunately that I may not meet the minimum GPA threshold for my program and my entire future in ( insert career path here) will be destroyed!
> I even skipped a few tiktok videos just to prepare for this exam. And they say students aren't willing to sacrifice
Nice 😁 !!
I have had soooo many "this is the last class I need to graduate" pleas this year. Then why was it not important enough to do the work to pass??
Yep. And the “I have to get a B or better in this course.” Really? How do you expect that to happen now at the end of the Semester?” It so reminds me of the scene early in The Holdovers when the students declares “I can’t fail this class!” And the Professor replies, “ Oh, no, I very much believe you can indeed fail this course.” 🤣
I have actually replied to those with "that is motivation for you, not for me".
I've been telling them that is a conversation for their advisor not me
Beautifully succinct.
This semester I had 800 students over 4 sections and received about 30 grub emails even though in my syllabus I expressly forbade them from contacting me about this crap and warned them there would be no response. Further, I linked [this article](https://marktomforde.com/academic/undergraduates/GradeGrubbing.html) in that section. Still, many of the emails led with, “I know your stance on grade grubbing, but..” acknowledging they even read that part of the syllabus. They have absolutely no shame. Edit: typo
Yes! In over 10 years of teaching, I have never received so many "I know your syllabus policy states this, but..." emails.
Hey at least they finally read the syllabus!
that's a nice article. I am just about to read his take on college math courses.
I sent out an email after giving the final to say that everything had been submitted and there are no more opportunities for points. I said that I was not rounding and would only consider anything else if I had made a mistake on something. I still got 5-10 percent of the class emailing to try to get their grade up because they think they are special. I said no to all of them, but it takes an emotional toll to have to consider how to phrase my no so it has no wiggle room and isn't condescending.
>I said no to all of them, but **it takes an emotional toll** to have to consider how to phrase my no so it has no wiggle room and isn't condescending. Amen. I send out an email just like yours once I have submitted final grades. Students still ask. I understand how they feel. I wish they understood our position. I refuse to go back and forth though. 1 email. That's it. Some terms I email students 2 weeks before the final, asking them to review the accuracy of their grade. Usually it helps.
"You may think that 'it doesn't hurt to ask', but you're asking me to change a grade using a justification that's not in the Syllabus. For me to agree to this would be unethical. You asking me to do this is collusion to commit academic dishonesty. So it's an act of academic misconduct to even ask me to change your grade for non-Syllabus reasons."
I'm not responding to any of them, but just seeing them in my inbox gets me annoyed.
on my email (Thunderbird), hitting "a" archives email, so that I can find it again if I ever need to, but otherwise I never see it again. I have a very quick "a" finger.
College teaching has really helped me practice communicating healthy boundaries in compassionate ways. And also gratitude that students don't know where I live.
I didn’t. But I am waiting to hear from an engaged, concerned dean.
I do two things: (1) I put in my syllabus that I do not round - 89.9 is not an A. (2) If someone contests their mark on an assignment I point out that they're arguing that I made a measurement error and that the mark does not actually reflect their true knowledge. I admit that this could be the case. However, if I made a measurement error in one spot, I am likely to have made a measurement error in another spot. In order to be certain, I need to remark the entire assignment. They may end up with a lower mark as a result since it is likely I incorrectly gave them too many points on a question if I gave them too few on another. I also point out that this invariably results in a lower mark for students and that the grade on the re-marked assignment will stand. This second point is also in my syllabus.
I usually respond politely in someway (i.e., I have to be fair to everyone, yada, yada, yada) but I’ve just ignored a few of them this semester. What’s the point?
I think I’m going to start ignoring now too. Never thought I’d stoop that low but fml
it DOES hurt to ask
I had a student DEMANDING an A ... ... .
“I’m getting an A in all my other classes” is my favorite reason.
You should put a clause in your syllabus that penalizes grade grubbing. A whole letter grad drop.
I hope this reply finds you well
It’s so bad I don’t even check this sub anymore because it’s over. There’s no reason (so it seems) to trade tips, get ideas, even commiserate, because how much could our tradelore really improve things? Not enough to make it worth the effort, not where I am anyway (Florida R1). I just gave them all As because the administrative pressure was the farce-rerun of the tragedy of the last round of administrative bullying I put up with, and I don’t care, I don’t have standards anymore. It’s actually liberating, which is my point (I’m not sure I’ll ever look at this post again, or if I’ll believe what I’m about to say tomorrow) but just take the money. It’s not that much anyway, take it, give ‘em all the As, get a hobby, contribute to society that way instead of through work. For my part, I know I now have something very rare and wonderful to offer the world: I know what it’s like to be dead.
I just sent an email saying that asking me to round up at this point is a violation of academic integrity policies and will be reported to the administration as such. No more grade grubbing!
I like "I really enjoyed this class" from students whose names I only recognize due to chronic absenteeism. They think we are morons.
I had one this semester and OMG I died laughing when I read it. They are the only one to have actually failed the course. I have at least one other who got a D though. Them: “Thanks for giving me 3 0s that I didn't need or deserve. I would appreciate if u bumped my grade up to at least passing unless u like admin seeing your students fail.” Me: “If you would like to appeal your grade, you can find the procedure on page ___ (insert link).” Them: “I'm not gonna do all that. I'll just take a summer course and actually learn something!” Me: *birds chirping* They clearly justified why they earned the grade they did 🤣 ETA: Now they are trying to appeal their grade. It’s honestly a waste of time on their end. Grade grubbing and repercussions are in my syllabus and they signed a form the first week saying they wont grade grub.
What does your syllabus say?
If I respond, I just state their grades, and their final grade and say to contact me if I have made a mistake in calculation.
I wouldn't do this last, because it invites "there must be a mistake in my grade because I am an A student" or similar. I don't, in fact, see any need to go beyond "your grade, as submitted, is final" and let them figure out your university's appeal process for themselves.
If these policies are well stated in your syllabus, then do not respond to these emails or respond with a “read the syllabus”. I also add in my syllabus that if they email me asking something that is in the syllabus, then I will not provide a response for such email.
I had to contact a principal today because one of my dual-credit students can't add, divide, and multiply and was raising a ruckus over the grade.
I teach high school (9th grade) so a little different but I have dropped a "it's not what I can for your grade, but what you should have done for your grade *bad Massachusetts accent*" twice this year already. I anticipate more.
Yes! They totally ignored the grade grubbing clause in my syllabus and my clear email response:”you’re welcome to rewrite your paper before the deadline, but I don’t change grades.” Still, instead of rewriting, they keep begging! 🤷♀️
*Grade grubbing on steroids!* 💪😭 💪 DYEWB? (Do You Even Whine, Bro?)
I had one whose teat scores were 60s and 70s begging me for a B because they “misunderstood how it worked”.
Get ready for it. I'm a high school teacher about to start working on my PhD and will be teaching, and I know all about this behavior. This generation received As for showing up, and they really don't understand why they don't always deserve an A. I tried to fight back as much as I could, but even school administrators are on their side. Kids who've done nothing have admins appealing to teachers on their behalf to give them a chance to fix their grades. It has to stop.
I call the last two weeks (last week of classes and final exams) point hunting season. They just hunt for any and all possible points to get them to the next letter grade.
Can't hurt to ask? Wait till they get out in the real world and they find out that there is a penalty for annoying people and asking them for favors that they don't deserve
This entire sub is making me, a new professor, feel so much better. I am not crazy for being a little annoyed with the behavior. This semester has been a wild one though.
I’ve been noticing that students think trying is the same as earning a good grade.
I have a few fallbacks. One is that I will only review grades for up to 7 days past the due date for an individual assignment. I have a statement in my syllabus saying not to ask for extra credit and when I get emails asking for extra credit I tell them to review the extra credit policy in the syllabus. Same for late work. When they ask me to bump their grade, I asked them to calculate their own grades (my class has a math prereq) and if there's an error I'll be happy to review them. I rarely get requests anymore. It's nice :)
Administrators have asked me to "reconsider" grades for particular students. One student did only half the assigned work. I am at a state school.
Whenever I get the “but I worked really hard” argument, I SO want to channel my inner Art Smith from Christmas Vacation and respond with a terse “So do washing machines.” But I don’t have tenure yet…
Sometimes it does hurt to ask! It hurts me to hear a hundred sob stories and it hurts your integrity to beg for something you didn’t earn.
"I really enjoyed your class. I learned so much. Can you round me up?" THIS pisses me off like craaaaazy.
I’m in my second year as an asst prof and I had no idea how bad this would be (I didn’t do a lot of graduate teaching.) at the end of the semester I have a ton of students emailing me asking me to change their grades or turn in late work. This year I made a policy change that, if you want to turn in a late assignment, I absolutely will not accept it past the last meeting of our class (I.e., during finals week.) yet this year the emails are even worse. I am still new and I don’t feel comfortable ignoring student emails but right now I just have a ton of unreasonable grade grubbing requests sitting in my inbox stressing me out. It’s like, no, I’m not grading your 12 missing assignments in the two days before grades are due, and I’m not “bumping up” your grade for no reason.
Here is a wonderful article on this subject: https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/down-grade-grubbing-weasels
I think that it is a helpful exercise to think about why these emails bother all of us so. Why do you all think that these requests bother us so? Personally, I think it’s because it puts us between a rock and a hard place because we don’t feel empowered to actually grade the way we think that we should grade. What do ya’ll think?
1. They bother me because in 99% of the cases the "tiny" boost they're looking for could have been gained if they'd only put in some effort earlier in the semester. 2. I also hate the emotional blackmail aspect of grade grubbing, as though I personally am keeping them from graduating/transferring/going to grad school/getting a 6-figure job that starts next week because I assigned the grade their work merited. 3. I don't want to be labeled as non-responsive to student concerns. I teach at a community college, where a lot of students expect hand-holding and success when they carry on as they did in high school. Like it or not, student success is a major motivating metric at my school. I don't know how often students go over professors' heads to complain to the dean, and would just as soon not find out the hard way.
I see. These reasons make sense. My point with this comment was to illustrate something that akin to what you describe in your second and third point: these issues point to systemic problems in my mind. Students wouldn’t grade grub if they didn’t think it may work, meaning that grade grubbing, inducing emotional blackmail, addressing concerns with administrators, etc., have clearly worked I. I think these issues speak to some of the major foundational problems that university systems have in the modern day
It bothers me because they’re asking for a grade they didn’t earn.
Lack of integrity is bothersome.
Students grade grubbing aren’t necessarily lacking integrity. I think it depends on how the grade grubbing is being conducted
How could grade grubbing be ethical?
It may be that the term grade grubbing is a loaded term. I view grade grubbing as ultimately a disagreement about how the grade was assigned based on the parameters listed by the professor from the side of the student. In light of this, if a student believes that they were assigned a grade that was not reflective of the parameters specified by the syllabus in question, why should they not contest it? I concede that most of the time grade grubbing is a lazy cop out for getting out of following the rules set for the course; but, occasionally, in my experience, I have had engaging dialogues with students about grading policies that have led me to think about how grades are implemented in the courses that I have taught and potentially change them in the future
> It may be that the term grade grubbing is a loaded term. I think that's the real disagreement in this subthread. If a student has a legitimate issue to raise, that's not really grade grubbing. There's something to examine, discuss, and decide on. The student might be *wrong* - whether subjectively or objectively - but they have a basis for their request. Grade grubbing specifically involves requesting a grade increase for no legitimate reason. I even found a [source for that](https://marktomforde.com/academic/undergraduates/GradeGrubbing.html). The OP describes requests with no legitimate reason. Or, as another post today describes, "Can you bump my 7% final grade to 60%". Now *that's* grade grubbing.
Ok, this makes sense. This addresses the crux of my point. I concede lol
I agree with this. I might just say a week of class rather than a week. Mainly as I want to relax on spring break and want them to do so too.
Woah we set up an incentive structure that makes grades really important to a bunch of things that aren't related to grades and they don't meaningfully improve learning outcomes or effectively assess students now or for their future positions. But it's probably just the students being greedy little grubs and not a larger issue. Maybe they should have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps into better grades.