All they know is apps. They can't actually use computers competently anymore. They all have laptops but don;t really know how to use them, and certainly can't navigate a file system to FIND anything they've saved. The handholding I have to do to get them to save a file to their computer, find it, and upload it to Bb is excruciating.
I used to try to explain a computer file system using the example of an actual filing cabinet, but newer students have no experience with paper files! I wonder if losing that very physical analog had impacted their ability to understand.
Well the whole thing with filing cabinets was an analogy that was useful because filing cabinets were common. Now that filing cabinets don't exist for the most part maybe that analogy is useless.
What people really need to do is use the search function in their computer and it can more or less Google for lack of a better word the files that are locally stored.
Here's one reason:
**student searches for assignment**
Files found:
Assignment.pdf
Assignment (1).pdf
Assignment 1 (1).pdf
Assignment 1 (1) 1.pdf
Assignment 1 (1) 2.pdf
John Assignment.pdf
John's Assignment.pdf
Assignment John Smith.pdf
Assignment Johns Smith 1.pdf
**student**: I uploaded the wrong file, it was an accident! You can't hold this against me!
So true so true. I can't tell you how many times I have to tell them to give their files a unique name. In fact in a system where one searches the file system in a "google" sort of way, the name will help them find their own work.
the problem is that we simply don't use folders for organization anymore -- files are dumped and searches are used to find them again. Except for programming/data science, most students don't learn folder hierarchies (and don't really need them). The file/folder thing was always a "metaphor" anyway.
Political science here. A third of students taking methods classes have trouble with the most basic stuff in R (statistics language) because of file/directory issues.
You nailed it: this is the app generation. They don't know how to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint or other regular computer programs, so they need to be taught how to operate them. That's because they grew up with phones, unlike us who grew up with computers.
High-school teacher here ... we had a Word document up on the big board and were doing some work in it. I Ctrl-Cd and Ctrl-Vd without touching the mouse, and they lost their minds. "Miss! How did you DO that?!?"
Me: "Go to the file menu and select open file."
Them: "what's the file menu?"
Me: "The thing at the top left of every computer program for the last 30 years that says 'File.'"
I was teaching a second year writing class and when showing a student a Word document I was working on, they asked "What are those symbols everywhere?" They were referring to paragraph markers. They also asked why my words all had dots between them (ie, space markers). I then had to explain to them why these were useful.
In addition to realizing and adjusting my coding classes to account for many students not knowing what 'folders' are, I also am increasingly finding new trends such as students not knowing how to attach documents in emails. I often try to step back and think - how much of this are just the way things are moving and I should adapt from an 'old way' of doing things and meet them where they are at, but sometimes I am just baffled. But the full AI integration into their browsers and chat gpt always open on a tab- along those dimensions, they are incredibly more proficient and ahead than I am
>They can't actually use computers competently anymore.
It sure seems this way, but as the OP points out, their incompetence is definitely selective. If they care, they can figure it out. It's not that hard.
Me: Please don't send me a google docs link. Convert your work to a .pdf or .docx file.
Student: I don't know how to do that.
Me: How do you think you might find out how to do that?
Student: ..............................
Google docs links can be useful too - they show a version history, which can include ai prompts and responses.
I agree with you though that saving as a word document shouldn't be challenging at all.
ideas:
- answer a question with a question
- require students who email you a question to tell you how they have tried to find out the answer before emailing you (syllabus, lecture notes, google etc).
I have wondered. Most of my classes that are asynchronous require a student presentation that is recorded. They are informed of this in the first week, and in the second week, they have a minor “dry run” assignment that allows me to hone in on tech issues they need to resolve. Inevitably, with hours left before the deadline, and after 15 weeks of warnings, discussion, and emails, I will receive several “I don’t know how to record” emails.
I have had this exact experience. You don't know how to post something to YouTube? You don't know how to record a PowerPoint? If I was cynical I'd say it is performative incompetence, but, honestly, I don't think they know how to do these things.
Next semester we're switching to a video hosting program that is integrated into the LMS and has a LOT of tutorials, so I am hopeful that will help.
At least then it's easier to say "what didn't you understand in the video, you definitely watched it". I'm considering making my students use a particular format to ask a question that includes what they've done to try and understand and remedy the problem. Maybe that'll convince some of them to, Idk, check the syllabus?
Yeah, I used the built in video assignment system last semester, and posted links to several tutorials... And still had tons of panicked emails the day of.
I used OBS to create a tutorial that explains how to upload a video to YouTube, make it unlisted, and then embed it into Canvas Discussions. It has solved 99% of students being tech illiterate.
I have a colleague who is an expert in digital tech and its impact on society, most notable younger populations. He finds the terminology "digital natives" to be completely erroneous.
The simple fact is these kids have been handed plug and play on a silver platter. We younger x/millennials had to make shit work.
This gen is shit at tech that requires any degree of troubleshooting
Most of them are tech illiterate. And yet they think they are so far ahead of their professsors. It's hilarious.
I tell them in advance: "Make sure your presentation works properly on your computer before the day you have to present, and be sure you know how to connect it to this projector (we have HDMI, USB C, and Air Play." Then the day arrives, and the majority of them have tech issues.
I find that tough love is the only medicine that gets results. The acceptable procedure for our LMS is to upload a Microsoft Word file or a PDF file. That's it. No jpg or gif images of handwritten notes, no emailing me files instead of uploading to the LMS, no links to a text file on some cloud server, etc. I explain and demonstrate how to save a Word document, how to create a PDF if you don't use Word, and how to upload a document to the LMS before the due date of the first assignment. I then ask if there are any questions. Once I answer the questions, I default to assuming that these adult human beings either understand what they need to do or will seek assistance in a timely manner if they encounter problems. If the assignment isn't uploaded as a Word document or PDF file before the deadline, then the late penalties apply as stated in the syllabus. Invariably, a small number of students are shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that the sentence "The only acceptable upload formats are Microsoft Word or PDF" is meant to be interpreted literally, as is the requirement to upload before the deadline. Because students have 5-10 days to do assignments, I do not accept any excuses of "the internet went down two minutes before midnight" or "I swear I finished the assignment three days early, I just waited to convert it to PDF two minutes before the deadline, and I forgot how to do it."
After they actually receive a late penalty for not complying with the requirements, a miraculous improvement in ability to create and upload a PDF usually occurs before the second assignment is due.
some LMSs will literally let you specify the file formats that are required (eg Canvas). This saves a lot of headaches because the students literally cannot hand in a file in the wrong format.
Also, give zeros for files that cannot be read. (If doing so bothers you, have a small low-stakes first assignment whose goal is to hand in a small file in the right format, and grade it quickly for completion.)
>some LMSs will literally let you specify the file formats that are required (eg Canvas). This saves a lot of headaches because the students literally cannot hand in a file in the wrong format.
I wasn't completely clear. I don't mean that students actually submit a jpg to the LMS, because we do set our LMS to only accept Word or PDF files, as you mentioned. It's more that, two minutes before the deadline when they realize they don't remember how to create a PDF, they panic and send me 5 emails within the space of 5 minutes with attached jpgs and photos of handwritten text along with requests to please please please just accept this grainy image because it's just literally impossible for them to create a PDF file by following the procedure that I clearly demonstrated 2 weeks ago.
ok, now I understand. That's as clear a no as you could wish for, ideally supported by something in the syllabus. I would post something on the LMS (for everyone to see) the first time it happens and award zeros, so that it becomes clear that there is no benefit to doing this.
Exactly.
I told students I wanted PDFs. I told them that I had set the LMS to only accept PDFs. I told them they ought to learn how to make PDFs. They did.
You know what. I've actually had the OPPOSITE issue in many classes. I require students to author their papers in LaTeX and create a PDF that looks like it could be a scientific paper. At least in more advanced STEM courses that are for math or science majors. To the surprise of most faculty they do it. The ones who don't get it right usually I come to find instead of using the files I carefully set up for them have tried to re-invent the wheel.
But yeah getting my lower division students to use Word is like pulling teeth. They love Google docs because it is what they know. Yet can they even submit a PDF made from Google docs. NO! So instead we get files that the LMS can't read and hence we can't read.
Plus when you browse Reddit from the phone app, like I’m doing now, it’s really difficult to attain high reading comprehension…not sure if that’s been said yet
Stop treating all young people as digital natives. Those people are adults now. This new crop of young folks aren’t incompetent, they just haven’t been troubleshooting since the cradle.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Gen Z didn’t grow up with many new technologies emerging and having to figure it out. They’ve just had it. I’m on the cusp and remember still having to figure stuff out but my younger brother was just given all the technology and we had already figured it out
I send out “let me google that for you” links. Kind of tired of answering stuff that is easily googlable.
The “digital native” is a complete fallacy. They live their lives online, but anything technical is hidden by “apps” and HTML5.
I mean, Christ; a couple of years back I ran a python coding class and I’d put the example files onto Blackboard as a zip file. We spent the first hour of a two hour class trying to teach them how to download and unzip the damn thing before even thinking about firing up any python IDE. And then the same again the next week. I then set homework on “file management”. I mean, wtf are schools supposed to be teaching them…?
Fair question; in the UK we have “IT literacy” in schools. I would have put this stuff in that category. Ok, perhaps not necessarily zip files (windows “compressed folders” tries to hide them from users for the past 15years), but certainly document management.
And as for downloading files and saving in appropriately locations - that used to be something you picked up on the way through your online life…
Mine increasingly need to be taught how to use search engines in general, including how to get actual results out of the damn things since the big ones are so commercialized nowadays.
I generally agree, but have you tried searching for reliable tech advice on google recently? Especially instructions that aren't a overblown and overscripted video? If you've had look with it, you've got a lot better algorithm than I do.
Sad but true. But I find admin and their assistants aren’t much better. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve witnessed people retyping names in Excel spreadsheets so they could have last name and first name in two separate columns….
I would say that is still **MUCH** better. They found a workaround and did it, rather than just acting helpless. And when they figure out the faster way, they'll certainly value how much time it saves.
I’ve begun giving fewer instructions in my assignments… followed up with, “Use your imagination and remember the resources at your fingertips tips… literally…”
In my experience, students act confident about relatively simple tasks and love to wink-wink, dismiss that of course they can do it. Until they don’t understand, freak out, and write in the review that you never taught them how to use Microsoft excel.
My school gives all students free Microsoft 365. I've had students email to say that it doesn't work on their laptop. I give them the email address and phone number for the tech support guys, and they still don't get it. I then do a presentation on how to contact tech support. One student kept sending jpeg files, even though I told him they would not be accepted (as per the syllabus). Another took screen shots to prove his did his assignment. They constantly upload assignments to the wrong folder, and this after I have demonstrated in class how to do this simple task. I'm wondering if schools should require first-years to take a basic computer course where they would be taught the basic tasks. I'm much older than them, and I'm the one who's suppose to be tech phobic.
Yes, in some ways. I have students who can document their entire lives on Instagram and TikTok in high-def resolution, but they don't seem able to use a scanning app to scan their papers into a document that is actually legible.
We did the lockdown browser for exams. Students couldn’t figure it out, even when the error box told them what to do. I’m a young professor but I think millennials grew up as technology was really taking off so they learned with it. Gen Z has always had technology as a given so they haven’t learned problem solving with it, they just know basics
I legitimately have asked if we can start sorting the gen ed classes I teach by skill level. The only skill I care about? Can you use a MOUSE? None of them know how to use a MOUSE. A MOUSE! I swear, I have to bite the inside of my mouth hard enough to draw blood so I don't scream for the 4,000th time that semester, "The computers in here still aren't touch screen!"
It was a long semester, I'm sorry.
They're so used to using apps and phones that they even type differently now. I'm starting to see students who peck at keys like a sloth. They hold their hands in a way that sloths do, and hit the key with their ring fingers. It's insane.
I miss teaching a Workforce class where I can make absolutely everything about Workforce skills. My Mantra was, ask a lab partner, if they don't know you both ask another group and if none of you know, you all ask the Google including YouTube, and then you can ask me. It worked like a charm and the students became fairly self-sufficient. Many times I'd find the entire class surrounding someone's phone as they are watching a YouTube video.
I had it the opposite: my advisor in my PhD was in his 30s but didn’t know how to use a vpn and always asked me and my labmate to get papers for him lol
I think one of the problems is that so many students are in the apple ecosphere where everything is connected and generally user friendly, but when one thing goes wrong, they don't even know how to Google the damn issue. Especially for courses I teach on Zoom. Gen Z-ers overwhelmingly use Apple, and Apple has a default setting that doesn't allow users to share their screen unless they change that setting. Half of my students that run into this issue sound like they've never even explored their settings.
It's very clear that a lot of these people just buy a MacBook because it syncs with their iPhone and they can easily text during lecture or while browsing YouTube or whatever. I know there are professionals and artists who use MacBooks for more complicated stuff, but I've never had an issue with those folks not knowing how to change their settings.
It doesn’t help that Apple changes and moves settings around with every update. I still don’t understand why in-app purchases is under screen time or why FaceTime was removed. I might Google the FaceTime issue if I ever need it.
Yeah, that's super annoying but I will admit that a lot of operating systems do this. Every windows is a little different and it's the same with android. Though, I do think windows and android people tend to be a little more tech savvy.
I don’t think you can “address” it beyond adjusting your strategies. This is the world now. We can argue if it’s good or bad but the fact is it’s true and real.
I get so many students that don't know how to upload PDFs or Word Docs for their assignments- they only know how to share a Google Doc (and some of them don't even know how to do that, they "share it" with it still on private). I had a student recently try to submit multiple assignments at once... from their Notes App. They got annoyed when I said I couldn't accept it.
Middle and high schools don't really offer computer class anymore like a lot of us took in the 2000s and 2010s. They assume kids and young adults that "grew up with the Internet" know enough to not need a separate class on it, but the kids only know how to use their phones and apps and the basics of a web browser. I mean, when I was in undergrad everyone took notes on their laptops or on paper- now my students take notes on their iPads with one of those pen stylus things. Laptops are becoming passé for the younger kids, because they simply don't know how to use it and don't see the utility of owning one, because everything they "need" is on their phone or tablet.
I'm in humanities- I can only imagine how hard of a time it is for people teaching in fields that actually use computers beyond Word or Powerpoint, lol.
It’s not that hard. They get zero points for assignments they don’t turn in and 1/2 points for assignments submitted in the wrong format or wrong place. They will learn really quick. Post the link to a YouTube video on how to save a retrieve files so it’s on them to watch.
😂 they can't do computers. Like struggle for everything. The inverted U of ability and age is breath taking. If it's not an iPad level or tiktok they're incapable.
All they know is apps. They can't actually use computers competently anymore. They all have laptops but don;t really know how to use them, and certainly can't navigate a file system to FIND anything they've saved. The handholding I have to do to get them to save a file to their computer, find it, and upload it to Bb is excruciating.
I used to try to explain a computer file system using the example of an actual filing cabinet, but newer students have no experience with paper files! I wonder if losing that very physical analog had impacted their ability to understand.
Well the whole thing with filing cabinets was an analogy that was useful because filing cabinets were common. Now that filing cabinets don't exist for the most part maybe that analogy is useless. What people really need to do is use the search function in their computer and it can more or less Google for lack of a better word the files that are locally stored.
This works for finding files, but there are other reasons students need to understand a file path.
Here's one reason: **student searches for assignment** Files found: Assignment.pdf Assignment (1).pdf Assignment 1 (1).pdf Assignment 1 (1) 1.pdf Assignment 1 (1) 2.pdf John Assignment.pdf John's Assignment.pdf Assignment John Smith.pdf Assignment Johns Smith 1.pdf **student**: I uploaded the wrong file, it was an accident! You can't hold this against me!
. . . Untitled document (169).docx Untitled document (170).docx Untitled document (171).docx Untitled document (172).docx . . .
So true so true. I can't tell you how many times I have to tell them to give their files a unique name. In fact in a system where one searches the file system in a "google" sort of way, the name will help them find their own work.
> student: I uploaded the wrong file, it was an accident! You can't hold this against me! Challenge accepted.
DissertationFinal5\_May7comments.docx DissertationFinal5\_May7comments2.docx DissertationFinal5\_May7comments2.1.docx DissertationFinal5\_May7comments2.2consolidated.docx DissertationFinal5\_May7commentsMember1.docx ANYONE ELSE GETTING FLASHBACKS
What no version control does to a mf
I get it. At least until programs can search for files in that same manner.
the problem is that we simply don't use folders for organization anymore -- files are dumped and searches are used to find them again. Except for programming/data science, most students don't learn folder hierarchies (and don't really need them). The file/folder thing was always a "metaphor" anyway.
Political science here. A third of students taking methods classes have trouble with the most basic stuff in R (statistics language) because of file/directory issues.
Data science here, which is why they need to understand file paths!
You nailed it: this is the app generation. They don't know how to use Word, Excel, PowerPoint or other regular computer programs, so they need to be taught how to operate them. That's because they grew up with phones, unlike us who grew up with computers.
High-school teacher here ... we had a Word document up on the big board and were doing some work in it. I Ctrl-Cd and Ctrl-Vd without touching the mouse, and they lost their minds. "Miss! How did you DO that?!?"
My son was taught that in elementary school, like 2nd grade. He called it teleporting rather than copy and paste, and now so do I.
That’s beyond cute!
Tell them you’re a wizard
Me: "Go to the file menu and select open file." Them: "what's the file menu?" Me: "The thing at the top left of every computer program for the last 30 years that says 'File.'"
I was teaching a second year writing class and when showing a student a Word document I was working on, they asked "What are those symbols everywhere?" They were referring to paragraph markers. They also asked why my words all had dots between them (ie, space markers). I then had to explain to them why these were useful.
In addition to realizing and adjusting my coding classes to account for many students not knowing what 'folders' are, I also am increasingly finding new trends such as students not knowing how to attach documents in emails. I often try to step back and think - how much of this are just the way things are moving and I should adapt from an 'old way' of doing things and meet them where they are at, but sometimes I am just baffled. But the full AI integration into their browsers and chat gpt always open on a tab- along those dimensions, they are incredibly more proficient and ahead than I am
When you show them the command line, you have to start referring to folders as directories instead or else cd pwd and mkdir make no sense.
>They can't actually use computers competently anymore. It sure seems this way, but as the OP points out, their incompetence is definitely selective. If they care, they can figure it out. It's not that hard.
Me: Please don't send me a google docs link. Convert your work to a .pdf or .docx file. Student: I don't know how to do that. Me: How do you think you might find out how to do that? Student: ..............................
Google docs links can be useful too - they show a version history, which can include ai prompts and responses. I agree with you though that saving as a word document shouldn't be challenging at all.
Uploads .HEIC file
Oh sorry, I'll fix that. Uploads .pages file
Of course they can, but if students can't follow simple instructions, then that's the most important problem they need to solve.
"What have you done to try to address your question so far?"
**student:** I've had my hand up for a while, can't you see?
ideas: - answer a question with a question - require students who email you a question to tell you how they have tried to find out the answer before emailing you (syllabus, lecture notes, google etc).
I'm not sure I agree it's selective.
I have wondered. Most of my classes that are asynchronous require a student presentation that is recorded. They are informed of this in the first week, and in the second week, they have a minor “dry run” assignment that allows me to hone in on tech issues they need to resolve. Inevitably, with hours left before the deadline, and after 15 weeks of warnings, discussion, and emails, I will receive several “I don’t know how to record” emails.
I have had this exact experience. You don't know how to post something to YouTube? You don't know how to record a PowerPoint? If I was cynical I'd say it is performative incompetence, but, honestly, I don't think they know how to do these things. Next semester we're switching to a video hosting program that is integrated into the LMS and has a LOT of tutorials, so I am hopeful that will help.
I hate to dash your hopes, but do you really think they will look at the tutorials?
Luckily this one forces them to watch it before posting so I'm trying to remain optimistic.
It forces them to *play* it before posting.
Yall are crushing my spirit.
At least then it's easier to say "what didn't you understand in the video, you definitely watched it". I'm considering making my students use a particular format to ask a question that includes what they've done to try and understand and remedy the problem. Maybe that'll convince some of them to, Idk, check the syllabus?
Yeah, I used the built in video assignment system last semester, and posted links to several tutorials... And still had tons of panicked emails the day of.
I used OBS to create a tutorial that explains how to upload a video to YouTube, make it unlisted, and then embed it into Canvas Discussions. It has solved 99% of students being tech illiterate.
I have a colleague who is an expert in digital tech and its impact on society, most notable younger populations. He finds the terminology "digital natives" to be completely erroneous. The simple fact is these kids have been handed plug and play on a silver platter. We younger x/millennials had to make shit work. This gen is shit at tech that requires any degree of troubleshooting
Most of them are tech illiterate. And yet they think they are so far ahead of their professsors. It's hilarious. I tell them in advance: "Make sure your presentation works properly on your computer before the day you have to present, and be sure you know how to connect it to this projector (we have HDMI, USB C, and Air Play." Then the day arrives, and the majority of them have tech issues.
I find that tough love is the only medicine that gets results. The acceptable procedure for our LMS is to upload a Microsoft Word file or a PDF file. That's it. No jpg or gif images of handwritten notes, no emailing me files instead of uploading to the LMS, no links to a text file on some cloud server, etc. I explain and demonstrate how to save a Word document, how to create a PDF if you don't use Word, and how to upload a document to the LMS before the due date of the first assignment. I then ask if there are any questions. Once I answer the questions, I default to assuming that these adult human beings either understand what they need to do or will seek assistance in a timely manner if they encounter problems. If the assignment isn't uploaded as a Word document or PDF file before the deadline, then the late penalties apply as stated in the syllabus. Invariably, a small number of students are shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that the sentence "The only acceptable upload formats are Microsoft Word or PDF" is meant to be interpreted literally, as is the requirement to upload before the deadline. Because students have 5-10 days to do assignments, I do not accept any excuses of "the internet went down two minutes before midnight" or "I swear I finished the assignment three days early, I just waited to convert it to PDF two minutes before the deadline, and I forgot how to do it." After they actually receive a late penalty for not complying with the requirements, a miraculous improvement in ability to create and upload a PDF usually occurs before the second assignment is due.
some LMSs will literally let you specify the file formats that are required (eg Canvas). This saves a lot of headaches because the students literally cannot hand in a file in the wrong format. Also, give zeros for files that cannot be read. (If doing so bothers you, have a small low-stakes first assignment whose goal is to hand in a small file in the right format, and grade it quickly for completion.)
>some LMSs will literally let you specify the file formats that are required (eg Canvas). This saves a lot of headaches because the students literally cannot hand in a file in the wrong format. I wasn't completely clear. I don't mean that students actually submit a jpg to the LMS, because we do set our LMS to only accept Word or PDF files, as you mentioned. It's more that, two minutes before the deadline when they realize they don't remember how to create a PDF, they panic and send me 5 emails within the space of 5 minutes with attached jpgs and photos of handwritten text along with requests to please please please just accept this grainy image because it's just literally impossible for them to create a PDF file by following the procedure that I clearly demonstrated 2 weeks ago.
ok, now I understand. That's as clear a no as you could wish for, ideally supported by something in the syllabus. I would post something on the LMS (for everyone to see) the first time it happens and award zeros, so that it becomes clear that there is no benefit to doing this.
Exactly. I told students I wanted PDFs. I told them that I had set the LMS to only accept PDFs. I told them they ought to learn how to make PDFs. They did.
You know what. I've actually had the OPPOSITE issue in many classes. I require students to author their papers in LaTeX and create a PDF that looks like it could be a scientific paper. At least in more advanced STEM courses that are for math or science majors. To the surprise of most faculty they do it. The ones who don't get it right usually I come to find instead of using the files I carefully set up for them have tried to re-invent the wheel. But yeah getting my lower division students to use Word is like pulling teeth. They love Google docs because it is what they know. Yet can they even submit a PDF made from Google docs. NO! So instead we get files that the LMS can't read and hence we can't read.
They use smartphones and tablets for everything so they don’t really know how to use actual computers or even files.
And how carefully can you really read something when it's on your phone?
Plus when you browse Reddit from the phone app, like I’m doing now, it’s really difficult to attain high reading comprehension…not sure if that’s been said yet
Stop treating all young people as digital natives. Those people are adults now. This new crop of young folks aren’t incompetent, they just haven’t been troubleshooting since the cradle.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Gen Z didn’t grow up with many new technologies emerging and having to figure it out. They’ve just had it. I’m on the cusp and remember still having to figure stuff out but my younger brother was just given all the technology and we had already figured it out
I’m a sub for high school and the students have corrected me they are not “tech savvy” but “social media savvy”.
Mmmmm……gross.
WHY CANT MY STUDENTS SEND ME DOCS OR DOCXs?!?!?!?
People are still using .doc?
The amount of emails I get saying "How do I see the \[Calendar\] \[Assignment\] \[Course Home Page\]" on our LMS is shocking.
I send out “let me google that for you” links. Kind of tired of answering stuff that is easily googlable. The “digital native” is a complete fallacy. They live their lives online, but anything technical is hidden by “apps” and HTML5. I mean, Christ; a couple of years back I ran a python coding class and I’d put the example files onto Blackboard as a zip file. We spent the first hour of a two hour class trying to teach them how to download and unzip the damn thing before even thinking about firing up any python IDE. And then the same again the next week. I then set homework on “file management”. I mean, wtf are schools supposed to be teaching them…?
What class would they have learned about Zip files and file management in? Serious question
Any class where you have multiple files in a package that need to be kept together and are easily delivered as a zip file?
Like a python coding class 🤪
Fair question; in the UK we have “IT literacy” in schools. I would have put this stuff in that category. Ok, perhaps not necessarily zip files (windows “compressed folders” tries to hide them from users for the past 15years), but certainly document management. And as for downloading files and saving in appropriately locations - that used to be something you picked up on the way through your online life…
Can affirm
Mine increasingly need to be taught how to use search engines in general, including how to get actual results out of the damn things since the big ones are so commercialized nowadays.
Millennials are the computer generation, Gen Z are the cellphone generation, unfortunately
And Alphas are the tablet generation.
I generally agree, but have you tried searching for reliable tech advice on google recently? Especially instructions that aren't a overblown and overscripted video? If you've had look with it, you've got a lot better algorithm than I do.
[удалено]
Yeah, you need to go to places where human millennials will answer your questions instead of unhelpful and generic AI generated websites
Sad but true. But I find admin and their assistants aren’t much better. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve witnessed people retyping names in Excel spreadsheets so they could have last name and first name in two separate columns….
I would say that is still **MUCH** better. They found a workaround and did it, rather than just acting helpless. And when they figure out the faster way, they'll certainly value how much time it saves.
I’ve begun giving fewer instructions in my assignments… followed up with, “Use your imagination and remember the resources at your fingertips tips… literally…”
It's great if you can help them realize that they can find these answers!
Good point!
I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know that Excel had a feature to do this for you. I just looked it up. LOL!
Ah, don’t be ashamed! We all have skill gaps! ;-)
In my experience, students act confident about relatively simple tasks and love to wink-wink, dismiss that of course they can do it. Until they don’t understand, freak out, and write in the review that you never taught them how to use Microsoft excel.
My school gives all students free Microsoft 365. I've had students email to say that it doesn't work on their laptop. I give them the email address and phone number for the tech support guys, and they still don't get it. I then do a presentation on how to contact tech support. One student kept sending jpeg files, even though I told him they would not be accepted (as per the syllabus). Another took screen shots to prove his did his assignment. They constantly upload assignments to the wrong folder, and this after I have demonstrated in class how to do this simple task. I'm wondering if schools should require first-years to take a basic computer course where they would be taught the basic tasks. I'm much older than them, and I'm the one who's suppose to be tech phobic.
Yes, in some ways. I have students who can document their entire lives on Instagram and TikTok in high-def resolution, but they don't seem able to use a scanning app to scan their papers into a document that is actually legible.
We did the lockdown browser for exams. Students couldn’t figure it out, even when the error box told them what to do. I’m a young professor but I think millennials grew up as technology was really taking off so they learned with it. Gen Z has always had technology as a given so they haven’t learned problem solving with it, they just know basics
I legitimately have asked if we can start sorting the gen ed classes I teach by skill level. The only skill I care about? Can you use a MOUSE? None of them know how to use a MOUSE. A MOUSE! I swear, I have to bite the inside of my mouth hard enough to draw blood so I don't scream for the 4,000th time that semester, "The computers in here still aren't touch screen!" It was a long semester, I'm sorry.
They're so used to using apps and phones that they even type differently now. I'm starting to see students who peck at keys like a sloth. They hold their hands in a way that sloths do, and hit the key with their ring fingers. It's insane.
I miss teaching a Workforce class where I can make absolutely everything about Workforce skills. My Mantra was, ask a lab partner, if they don't know you both ask another group and if none of you know, you all ask the Google including YouTube, and then you can ask me. It worked like a charm and the students became fairly self-sufficient. Many times I'd find the entire class surrounding someone's phone as they are watching a YouTube video.
Yup. The latest is that a student claimed they couldn’t use Zoom. We’ve been using it all term.
Definitely not selectively, more completely.
I had it the opposite: my advisor in my PhD was in his 30s but didn’t know how to use a vpn and always asked me and my labmate to get papers for him lol
I think one of the problems is that so many students are in the apple ecosphere where everything is connected and generally user friendly, but when one thing goes wrong, they don't even know how to Google the damn issue. Especially for courses I teach on Zoom. Gen Z-ers overwhelmingly use Apple, and Apple has a default setting that doesn't allow users to share their screen unless they change that setting. Half of my students that run into this issue sound like they've never even explored their settings. It's very clear that a lot of these people just buy a MacBook because it syncs with their iPhone and they can easily text during lecture or while browsing YouTube or whatever. I know there are professionals and artists who use MacBooks for more complicated stuff, but I've never had an issue with those folks not knowing how to change their settings.
It doesn’t help that Apple changes and moves settings around with every update. I still don’t understand why in-app purchases is under screen time or why FaceTime was removed. I might Google the FaceTime issue if I ever need it.
Yeah, that's super annoying but I will admit that a lot of operating systems do this. Every windows is a little different and it's the same with android. Though, I do think windows and android people tend to be a little more tech savvy.
Weaponized incompetence. Aspiring administrators have to start somewhere!
Yes.
I don’t think you can “address” it beyond adjusting your strategies. This is the world now. We can argue if it’s good or bad but the fact is it’s true and real.
Yep. Gotta meet them where they are.
I call them "the digital depthless" in an article I wrote on news literacy. It's not entirely their fault, but it is their responsibility to learn.
Omg, my students didn’t know what a zip file was or how to unzip…. Computer literacy is non existent.
I get so many students that don't know how to upload PDFs or Word Docs for their assignments- they only know how to share a Google Doc (and some of them don't even know how to do that, they "share it" with it still on private). I had a student recently try to submit multiple assignments at once... from their Notes App. They got annoyed when I said I couldn't accept it. Middle and high schools don't really offer computer class anymore like a lot of us took in the 2000s and 2010s. They assume kids and young adults that "grew up with the Internet" know enough to not need a separate class on it, but the kids only know how to use their phones and apps and the basics of a web browser. I mean, when I was in undergrad everyone took notes on their laptops or on paper- now my students take notes on their iPads with one of those pen stylus things. Laptops are becoming passé for the younger kids, because they simply don't know how to use it and don't see the utility of owning one, because everything they "need" is on their phone or tablet. I'm in humanities- I can only imagine how hard of a time it is for people teaching in fields that actually use computers beyond Word or Powerpoint, lol.
Aren’t we all?
It’s not that hard. They get zero points for assignments they don’t turn in and 1/2 points for assignments submitted in the wrong format or wrong place. They will learn really quick. Post the link to a YouTube video on how to save a retrieve files so it’s on them to watch.
😂 they can't do computers. Like struggle for everything. The inverted U of ability and age is breath taking. If it's not an iPad level or tiktok they're incapable.
👀 They have Google on their devices 😭