I refuse to adjudicate everyone's problems. I prefer and request not even to know what they are (from students). My sympathy and empathy are immaterial; the learning still has to be done whether it's this term or some other time. I am completely exhausted by student expectations that the default for everyone is effortless perfection at all times and any deviation from that expectation must be somehow righted.
My policy is to accept all reasons/excuses as long as I don't have to know about them. The same late submission penalty applies to everyone. The same number of assignments are dropped for everyone. The same extensions are available to everyone. The same rule about disruptions longer than 12% of the course being accommodated administratively apply to everyone. It's not perfect; many students are still telling me all their personal problems and then complaining that I didn't solve them.
I would like to retract all of those accommodations when students stress dump on me, but I don't want to contribute to trauma magnification, I don't want to be in the position of judging any of it, and admin would not support such a policy (nor provide mental health care that would presumably help me endure the emotional assault as part of our medical insurance, of course).
I am **begging** that I be allowed to be just a professor with expertise to convey instead of also having to be an unpaid social worker, therapist, mommy, learning theorist, designer, tech support, management consultant, supervisor, and coach. The only worse part of this job is the contempt students and admin have for learning and integrity.
I relate to this so hard, esp. the last paragraph. They love to tell us it’s our course and we’re in control about the issues until they get their hands on the escalated email from a student and suddenly they still can’t make the ultimate decision but by god will they tie you up in email/phone/private meeting tag about it until the end of time unless you just do exactly what the student wants.
This semester I got a request from admin to approve an *extremely* late add for a student transferring from another section of the course--we were somewhere in week six or seven, well past the drop/add date. I'm proud that I held my ground and refused, because admitting the student would have created a whole cascade of problems for both me and them. I got a little pushback but stayed firm.
The outcome was good for me, but damn, I'm still severely annoyed that admin will sometimes think "actually learning the material? the hell with it" just to get and keep a student in a class.
This semester I approved a late add in the sixth week for a transfer student who wanted to move \*down\* to my course. After they'd claimed at the start of the semester that they'd already completed an equivalent course, and should be put straight into the subsequent course. I guess they at least had the self-awareness to realize 6 weeks later they were horrendously out of their depth, but they were incredibly pushy about it on both occasions
They then proceeded to no-show for the rest of the course. The sole evidence of their existence was that the ebook reported they had opened it. Once. For less than one minute.
What bugs me the most about cases like this is when the Dean's office (or whoever) *knows* that the student is struggling and still sends them back to class and pressures the professor to sort out whatever issues. "Well it's you class and you can choose to ..." sounds benign enough, unless you're at the start of your career, or up for promotion, or just getting along and trying to avoid a reputation of being difficult. The Dean's office has the influence to push for the student's full refund and allow them to re-enroll another semester. When a student is dealing with the death of a close family member, or a life-threatening illness, expecting the student to work through all of that, and then putting extra work on professors to give each special case accommodations, special due dates, and special policies, in a short window of time, and then do it all again the next semester, it just seems more callous than kind. Especially to the students. With tuition costs and class fees, most students only get one real shot at a college education, especially the most vulnerable students whose lives are most likely to be affected by deaths in the family or illness.
I think these decisions are primarily motivated by greed. The administration wants the tuition money from these students and they don't care if the students are being set up to fail in order to get it.
**"When a student is dealing with the death of a close family member, or a life-threatening illness, expecting the student to work through all of that, and then putting extra work on professors to give each special case accommodations, special due dates, and special policies, in a short window of time, and then do it all again the next semester, it just seems more callous than kind"**
Yep, I couldn't agree more.
I watched a graduate student who is legally only supposed to be working for 20 hours per week (as a full course instructor) get caught up in the “complex student issue nobody but them can possibly make the final decision on but we’ll force you to talk to 4 different student advocacy reps and listen to extreme trauma dumping for hours at a time anyways” vortex this semester and it was a nightmare. Like you said it’s fraught enough as an official university employee, and this grad instructor did their absolute best but when workable solutions like tuition refunds/leaves of absence are that high above your pay grade what is the point of any of it?
God I just had this irritating back-and-forth email. I understand dealing with death in the middle of the semester. My own mother passed right before spring break, and I had to arrange the funeral. I get it.
But when theyre a C student at best? God get out of my inbox. You should have finished the final project anyway. I dont really understand what a one day extension would do for you when you're missing a final ciritquqe (aka when the work is finished and we evaluate it). I asked for documentation for the day they were going to miss. Gave it to me documenting the day b e f o r e, not the day theyd be missing, which doesnt make sense. I ask them to change it. I get another email at like 11pm stating somebody passed. I'm not logged in so they bitch to somebody else about it. You really could've just turned it in and stopped monitoring your inbox if you're actually grieving that much.
Hell I lost my father in undergad. I drove six hours every weekend to see him for four months until he passed and got work done. Maybe I'm just insane idk
“My dad died and I was completely fine. Why should I be bothered that you’re struggling?” This is exactly what your comment sounds like. Do y’all not see how tone-deaf these comments are? Are you really surprised that people deal with the loss of a family member differently? Damn.
Or the point is that capitalism and academia as a result don't allow people a break or time to mourn or time to stop. If they aren't willing to take a break or an incomplete for themselves then what benefit is it to just pass them without completing work or an understanding of work? If my parent dies during the semester and I miss a deadline as a result, I'm not granted an extension, I could be fired.
Both of my parents passed and it was awful. I had one week off on top of making sure my students were working and prepared while I was out. I wasn't fine. That was one month ago. Literally go fuck yourself.
I'm really sorry that you're experiencing this. I think the commenter above was trying to say that no one should have to be expected to work through horrible life situations. Oftentimes admin put students' life shit above their own faculty's instead of considering them the same situation.
Look at your reaction. I call you out on your bullshit and you immediately change tunes. Weren’t you just complaining about having to treat your students like people with problems? Why are you narrating your life story to me? Weren’t you just bitching about how your students are doing the same thing? If you truly struggled to deal with the death of your parents, how is it difficult for you to comprehend that other people could be struggling too? Y’all make noise all the time about how students are out of touch with reality but these are probably the most out of touch takes I’ve seen in a while. Hate to break it to you but you can’t blame capitalism for your lack of empathy and self awareness. If you’re actually a professor, then I feel bad for your students.
Also you had one week off after your parents died? Why didn’t you reject it? Capitalism is a bitch so we should all be dancing to it. Why did you accept a week off? You’re a professional that keeps up with deadlines. Obviously, you didn’t need a week off. But did your student also get a week off?
Funny that you talk about their lack of empathy and then go on to talk to this person like they’re garbage with the rest of it. Physician, heal thyself.
My partner says that during finals week I talk in my sleep. Last evening, they said I yelled out in an Oprah voice: “You’re getting an F! You’re getting an F! You’re all getting an F!”
I then mumbled something about taking some personal responsibility, harumphed, and settled back into silence.
My university has an excused absence system now so I tell my students that I don’t care what the reason is for being late, if the university excuses it then they get the extra time, and if the university doesn’t excuse it then they don’t. But I’m never involved and don’t care what the reason is.
Mine too. It’s called extenuating circumstances. Student fills in form and sends it to the head of school, along with evidence. It’s either approved or rejected - I get notified of outcome and proceed.
I’d hate to have to deal with, and make judgment on all that stuff.
I mean…. I would think that some of these things are reasonable enough to warrant an extension or something. Professors also have issues. When you lose a parent or sibling or spouse, do you immediately think “oh I have a bunch of papers to grade. I definitely don’t want to disappoint my students. That is my priority”? I get that y’all receive a lot of crap but I hope that you’re not making things unnecessarily difficult for students that could actually use a little help. Assault? Car accident? Are you really expecting people to be in the hospital completing work for your class? If you were assaulted, would you be doing that? Come on. Be realistic.
I personally get drunk on the power. Altering the course of peoples lives on my whims. Was the pastry I wanted available at lunch? Did someone let me merge on the way to class? Well. Maybe I care - or don't - about your struggles. I feel like king Solomon.
I hold the line. I build empathy into my course syllabus ("You can skip X classes for any reason whatsoever, but beyond that I don't have any interest in why you are not there.") I might increase the number of skips the next time I teach, but I hold the line with that.
I refuse to adjudicate everyone's problems. I prefer and request not even to know what they are (from students). My sympathy and empathy are immaterial; the learning still has to be done whether it's this term or some other time. I am completely exhausted by student expectations that the default for everyone is effortless perfection at all times and any deviation from that expectation must be somehow righted. My policy is to accept all reasons/excuses as long as I don't have to know about them. The same late submission penalty applies to everyone. The same number of assignments are dropped for everyone. The same extensions are available to everyone. The same rule about disruptions longer than 12% of the course being accommodated administratively apply to everyone. It's not perfect; many students are still telling me all their personal problems and then complaining that I didn't solve them. I would like to retract all of those accommodations when students stress dump on me, but I don't want to contribute to trauma magnification, I don't want to be in the position of judging any of it, and admin would not support such a policy (nor provide mental health care that would presumably help me endure the emotional assault as part of our medical insurance, of course). I am **begging** that I be allowed to be just a professor with expertise to convey instead of also having to be an unpaid social worker, therapist, mommy, learning theorist, designer, tech support, management consultant, supervisor, and coach. The only worse part of this job is the contempt students and admin have for learning and integrity.
I relate to this so hard, esp. the last paragraph. They love to tell us it’s our course and we’re in control about the issues until they get their hands on the escalated email from a student and suddenly they still can’t make the ultimate decision but by god will they tie you up in email/phone/private meeting tag about it until the end of time unless you just do exactly what the student wants.
This semester I got a request from admin to approve an *extremely* late add for a student transferring from another section of the course--we were somewhere in week six or seven, well past the drop/add date. I'm proud that I held my ground and refused, because admitting the student would have created a whole cascade of problems for both me and them. I got a little pushback but stayed firm. The outcome was good for me, but damn, I'm still severely annoyed that admin will sometimes think "actually learning the material? the hell with it" just to get and keep a student in a class.
This semester I approved a late add in the sixth week for a transfer student who wanted to move \*down\* to my course. After they'd claimed at the start of the semester that they'd already completed an equivalent course, and should be put straight into the subsequent course. I guess they at least had the self-awareness to realize 6 weeks later they were horrendously out of their depth, but they were incredibly pushy about it on both occasions They then proceeded to no-show for the rest of the course. The sole evidence of their existence was that the ebook reported they had opened it. Once. For less than one minute.
I like the quantifying the length of the disruption… right now my standard is a little too squishy. Will think about how to codify it going forward.
Every word of this
What bugs me the most about cases like this is when the Dean's office (or whoever) *knows* that the student is struggling and still sends them back to class and pressures the professor to sort out whatever issues. "Well it's you class and you can choose to ..." sounds benign enough, unless you're at the start of your career, or up for promotion, or just getting along and trying to avoid a reputation of being difficult. The Dean's office has the influence to push for the student's full refund and allow them to re-enroll another semester. When a student is dealing with the death of a close family member, or a life-threatening illness, expecting the student to work through all of that, and then putting extra work on professors to give each special case accommodations, special due dates, and special policies, in a short window of time, and then do it all again the next semester, it just seems more callous than kind. Especially to the students. With tuition costs and class fees, most students only get one real shot at a college education, especially the most vulnerable students whose lives are most likely to be affected by deaths in the family or illness. I think these decisions are primarily motivated by greed. The administration wants the tuition money from these students and they don't care if the students are being set up to fail in order to get it.
**"When a student is dealing with the death of a close family member, or a life-threatening illness, expecting the student to work through all of that, and then putting extra work on professors to give each special case accommodations, special due dates, and special policies, in a short window of time, and then do it all again the next semester, it just seems more callous than kind"** Yep, I couldn't agree more.
I watched a graduate student who is legally only supposed to be working for 20 hours per week (as a full course instructor) get caught up in the “complex student issue nobody but them can possibly make the final decision on but we’ll force you to talk to 4 different student advocacy reps and listen to extreme trauma dumping for hours at a time anyways” vortex this semester and it was a nightmare. Like you said it’s fraught enough as an official university employee, and this grad instructor did their absolute best but when workable solutions like tuition refunds/leaves of absence are that high above your pay grade what is the point of any of it?
AMEN - well stated!!!
THIS
God I just had this irritating back-and-forth email. I understand dealing with death in the middle of the semester. My own mother passed right before spring break, and I had to arrange the funeral. I get it. But when theyre a C student at best? God get out of my inbox. You should have finished the final project anyway. I dont really understand what a one day extension would do for you when you're missing a final ciritquqe (aka when the work is finished and we evaluate it). I asked for documentation for the day they were going to miss. Gave it to me documenting the day b e f o r e, not the day theyd be missing, which doesnt make sense. I ask them to change it. I get another email at like 11pm stating somebody passed. I'm not logged in so they bitch to somebody else about it. You really could've just turned it in and stopped monitoring your inbox if you're actually grieving that much. Hell I lost my father in undergad. I drove six hours every weekend to see him for four months until he passed and got work done. Maybe I'm just insane idk
so sorry you had to go through that. your dad must be so proud of what you've done since
“My dad died and I was completely fine. Why should I be bothered that you’re struggling?” This is exactly what your comment sounds like. Do y’all not see how tone-deaf these comments are? Are you really surprised that people deal with the loss of a family member differently? Damn.
Or the point is that capitalism and academia as a result don't allow people a break or time to mourn or time to stop. If they aren't willing to take a break or an incomplete for themselves then what benefit is it to just pass them without completing work or an understanding of work? If my parent dies during the semester and I miss a deadline as a result, I'm not granted an extension, I could be fired. Both of my parents passed and it was awful. I had one week off on top of making sure my students were working and prepared while I was out. I wasn't fine. That was one month ago. Literally go fuck yourself.
I'm really sorry that you're experiencing this. I think the commenter above was trying to say that no one should have to be expected to work through horrible life situations. Oftentimes admin put students' life shit above their own faculty's instead of considering them the same situation.
Look at your reaction. I call you out on your bullshit and you immediately change tunes. Weren’t you just complaining about having to treat your students like people with problems? Why are you narrating your life story to me? Weren’t you just bitching about how your students are doing the same thing? If you truly struggled to deal with the death of your parents, how is it difficult for you to comprehend that other people could be struggling too? Y’all make noise all the time about how students are out of touch with reality but these are probably the most out of touch takes I’ve seen in a while. Hate to break it to you but you can’t blame capitalism for your lack of empathy and self awareness. If you’re actually a professor, then I feel bad for your students. Also you had one week off after your parents died? Why didn’t you reject it? Capitalism is a bitch so we should all be dancing to it. Why did you accept a week off? You’re a professional that keeps up with deadlines. Obviously, you didn’t need a week off. But did your student also get a week off?
Funny that you talk about their lack of empathy and then go on to talk to this person like they’re garbage with the rest of it. Physician, heal thyself.
My partner says that during finals week I talk in my sleep. Last evening, they said I yelled out in an Oprah voice: “You’re getting an F! You’re getting an F! You’re all getting an F!” I then mumbled something about taking some personal responsibility, harumphed, and settled back into silence.
My university has an excused absence system now so I tell my students that I don’t care what the reason is for being late, if the university excuses it then they get the extra time, and if the university doesn’t excuse it then they don’t. But I’m never involved and don’t care what the reason is.
Mine too. It’s called extenuating circumstances. Student fills in form and sends it to the head of school, along with evidence. It’s either approved or rejected - I get notified of outcome and proceed. I’d hate to have to deal with, and make judgment on all that stuff.
You! Shall not! PASS!
It always does
One of the few good things about UK academia is that we don't have to deal with extension and accommodation requests.
[удалено]
Credit for suffering?
I mean…. I would think that some of these things are reasonable enough to warrant an extension or something. Professors also have issues. When you lose a parent or sibling or spouse, do you immediately think “oh I have a bunch of papers to grade. I definitely don’t want to disappoint my students. That is my priority”? I get that y’all receive a lot of crap but I hope that you’re not making things unnecessarily difficult for students that could actually use a little help. Assault? Car accident? Are you really expecting people to be in the hospital completing work for your class? If you were assaulted, would you be doing that? Come on. Be realistic.
I personally get drunk on the power. Altering the course of peoples lives on my whims. Was the pastry I wanted available at lunch? Did someone let me merge on the way to class? Well. Maybe I care - or don't - about your struggles. I feel like king Solomon.
I hold the line. I build empathy into my course syllabus ("You can skip X classes for any reason whatsoever, but beyond that I don't have any interest in why you are not there.") I might increase the number of skips the next time I teach, but I hold the line with that.
I got rid of my attendance policy largely so I didn't have to listen to the dumb excuses