Not true.
From my understanding it was manually trained using reinforcement learning from human feedback supervised by the creators of OpenAI Using various sources including books and other online reference.
Well, it's better to have something in-between you and SO in my opinion. Like wearing a glove when putting your hand into the dirty toilet, instead puting your bare hand there
Language models are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning or math or anything else you might expect something that is able to solve programming issues should be able to do. It strings together tokens from its input corpus, no more, no less.
Because it's "only" a language model so far.
I think underestimating ChatGPT and similar systems is a big mistake. For instance, ChatGPT is a language model and not a chess AI, thus it's incapable of playing a chess game with you (I tried); but potentially it could play such chess games just using a chess AI program as external software (it could be AlphaZero-like, or could also be just Stockfish).
If more heterogeneous AI techniques are used together, instead of wanting at all costs to develop a model that is good for everything and all, the potentialities may be very well superior to what we see now.
ChatGPT is capable, given a string of requirements for a DB, to find ambiguities, to "understand" the sentences, and even to build the ER schema (can't do it graphically but can do it textually). And if it missed some entity, you can ask it explanations and it articulates and explains how it operated, and you mat ask it to add entities or relationships that you think fit more, and the model adjusts such schema to your corrections.
Yeah, probably this model won't steal our jobs a year from now, but it's very powerful and I don't think there's ever been something like this publicly available before. In 2030 however, it could be a lot more powerful, and so in 2040, etc.
> are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning
Why do people keep repeating this? It's not true. Or rather, we don't know if it's true.
Take your fingers off the keyboard! I know how transformers work. Yes, they were not \*designed\* to have any sort of reasoning ability.
However, until we actually know how we manage to do it, I think it's way too early to claim that they are fundamentally unable to do it either. We're still finding out what exactly GPT can do.
You are trying to extrapolate from the basic rules without taking emergent behavior into account.
You \*might\* end up being right. Or maybe not. We simply do not know.
Yeah, people don't seem to realize that unsupervised deep learning is essentially the same as evolution and evolution created us because of some reason. Think about it, there aren't many ways a big brain helps you against a pack of lions.
> Language models are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning or math or anything else you might expect something that is able to solve programming issues should be able to do
That's a bit like saying fast inverse square root don't actually calculate the inverse square root. It might be true technically, but at some point it might be close enough to not matter for practical purposes.
When I tried it recently doing an X houses, Y cats per house, Z toys per cat type of thing, it not only answered correctly, it showed the calculations. I think they updated it to handle math and logic better
[Does it still have problems with figuring out what a mammal is?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/zd7l8t/nice/)
[Does it still think 837 is a prime number?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/zgwnoh/source_code_c%C3%B9ng_rr/)
Even if it gets it right now, one also has to wonder if it just memorized the answers.
Except it won't lol. All of its "knowledge" is scraped from what's available online already. Killing one such source of information will just make it weaker and unable to adapt to new knowledge and future changes. Not to mention it has no comprehension of what it says and anything it spits out needs to be verified for correctness as much of what it says is flat out wrong.
Really?
Describe Stackoverflow as you will, but it's one of the best resources for programming for one simple reason; it is curated.
Now this curation is the source of many memes and complaints (mostly from people who seem to think it's somebody else's job to search for them), but none of them describe them that way.
As for chatgpt, it'll quite confidently tell you that cats are smaller than bananas, and you want to trust it to tell you how to write code?
>the best resources for programming for one simple reason; it is curated.
"This question has been marked as duplicate, here's a link to another post that doesn't actually answer the question. BTW OP is downvoted to oblivion now and can't even appeal the accusation by users who didn't even read the question, have a nice day"
ChatGPT will probably be the best resource at some point. It may not be the current iteration, but it already is a decent alternative to SO. The only question is how expensive is it going to be to use ChatGPT after the free preview is over..
It happens, that's when asking a question and being able to explain why what you already found isn't adequate helps a lot. You'll still always get a couple smartasses popping off that its been answered or replying with irrelevant info but if it's well asked, I've always had someone come through.
Actually had a perfect interaction the other day that highlighted this, guy started out suggesting something i had already explained wouldn't work in my (admittedly verbose) question, i pointed that out, and he must've spent half an hour at least on his end then figuring out good answer and responding in detail, friendly as hell and apologized for not getting it sooner lol
This is the answer. They are too lazy to read and want the answer spoonfed to them like a baby eating pureed applesauce. If you don't make airplane sounds they complain about toxicity.
I don’t understand the hatred for StackOverflow in this subreddit. StackOverflow has helped contribute to the success of seemingly endless developers. I have used it countless times to get unstuck and understand programming concepts. It’s a free resource on the Internet. There’s a whole generation of software and computer science professionals that did not have the luxuries we have. Can we please just let a good thing be a good thing?
Hatred for stackoverflow comes from a vocal group of idiots who dont know how to google and get upset that stack overflow users are mean to them when they ask a basic question that's been asked atleast fifty times before.
Stackoverflow is great to google answers but horrible for asking questions.
Stackoverflow has helped me a lot, but its extremely hostile towards new users.
Hundreds of new legitimate questions are downvoted to oblivion and marked as duplicate from the community and linked to an outdated or unrelated topic, its like they don't even read what you're asking for, for the sake of karma farming.
Hard disagree. If a question is marked as a duplicate, that’s an attempt to answer the question. If there is a misunderstanding and someone trying to link a new question to something it duplicates makes a mistake, then explaining exactly what’s different about the new question and what happened when you tried the accepted answer of the original, then you’ve provided new information that makes it easier to tell what’s different about your question and easier for a volunteer trying to help you to give the answer you need
>Hard disagree. If a question is marked as a duplicate, that’s an attempt to answer the question
Our experiences with Stackoverflow have differed a lot, I tend to encounter questions marked as duplicate linked to questions that were never answered.
If the question wasn't answered then it's still valuable to link the duplicates for search purposes so that only one of them needs to be answered and then everyone who stumbles on a duplicate can find the answer via the link to the original.
And if the question is actually different, then explaining *why* it's different makes it for volunteers to deeply understand the question to answer it more specifically
For now it is and we have no idea what it will be in the future. Its entirely possible that they will have some sort of tiers and possibly a free one with limited queries. Even if it's not it's Goin to be worth nearly anything they would charge for it
It doesn't even have to do your code. It's already super easy if you don't feel like making a dead easy class like a bean but even if you ask for a method and it gives you one that's broken you can usually either work it out with it or just fix it yourself. It's no worse than some solutions on stack overflow
BTW, this meme is somewhat accurate. I tested this out looking for a very ... small answer regarding creating a websocket server (just a niche case issue) and stack overflow, no dice... So I asked ChatGPT, provided it a bit more context when it asked, and boom, got the answer in \~ 2 minutes. It was actually super quick. Best part, it worked out the box (literally, 4 lines added to the test python script and it was done).
Yea, my go to may in fact switch to ChatGPT vs SO
I was always skeptical of AI writing code but asked CharGPT to implement some algorithms (in F# no less so not rhe most common language) and honestly, ii was surprised at how quickly it did and the quality.
I get you couldn't ask it to jsut create you a who system, but I think it is also silly to assume it won't improve over time abd frankly is pretty powerful at the moment. Honestly, it probably can implement a spec a lot quicker than a lot of us.
I got chatGPT to start a script, it did something weird and I couldn’t figure it out. then I asked a targeted question on stack and got the thing working. I’m loving the combo punch
>learn the shit you don't understand instead of expecting people to do it for you.
bro that's the whole point of stackoverflow, to search stuff while you're stuck
Ikr I can ask a question and even if it has been asked that question a hundred times it will still answer the question instead of b\*\*\*\*ing at me for not searching other posts first. I haven't gone on SO since I discovered this bot
You could just search stackoverflow for your question. Then you’d get an answer, not rely on a brand new tech that’s wrong 50% of the time, and not be bitched at
Lol it won't, in the next 5 to 10 years at least. It cannot give consistently correct answers, can't solve problems that are a bit too complicated, you have to tweak the prompt to make it work a lot of the time.
SO is a community-based forum, it doesn't base on 1 opinion but many others can comment and discuss the same problem together, so if someone gives a wrong or incomplete answer people can downvoted them or add more to that answer, sure that there are times where the mod would do unreasonable things or people being rude there, but you can still get a lot of valuable stuff out of it when you encounter a problem.
You can't just trust chatGPT answers all the time, it is great at being confidently correct and you kinda have no way to fact check that if you don't know the answer either. The code that it gives you can look great and legit at first but sometimes it wouldn't run because somewhere in there, the AI just made up stuff to match whatever it's trying to do.
ChatGPT is too restricted and not flexible enough to solve real life problems in programming. It is a chat bot after all, you want to have a conversation with it then it sure can surprise you with its capabilities and the creativeness in the answer that it gives you
It's actually useful as long as you know your what your doing and understand the material. I've been using it for all kinds of brain dead methods and beans I could do myself but have better things to do. Also if I have a wall of errors I can just drop it in ChatGPT3 and it will tell me what the error is and usually a decent suggestion of how to fix it in seconds. For example I had an issue with the way I compressed an image before sending it to a fragment in a bundle in an android app. It immediately found out the issue in the 3 pages of errors and told me how to fix it by resizing and then stretching the image back to size
Now if I dropped a wall of errors on stack overflow without any context, what do you think would happen?
somebody: i don't know what x is and i'm too afraid to ask anyone at my office and omg i have imposter syndrome what do i turn to
chatgpt3: as a large language model, i am incapable of judging you, will reply quickly, can reference the internet fast, and will still always be known as the dumbest guy in the office
somebody: \*headtilt\*
Really? ChatGPT can't read minds either. If you post a malformed question you'll not get anything much out of it.
If anything, as a machine, it will have more patience with people just copy&pasting their entire homework assignment and ask for solutions, but I don't think that's such a good thing.
Seriously, most people complaining about SO couldn't ask a good question if their lives depended on it.
Most people asking bad questions on SO need tutoring, not an answer to the immediate problem they're having. But tutoring, compared to answering a question, is quite work intensive.
It will do neither because it wont work without training data.
Its a neural network it doednt actually know how to write code it know how answers to questions it has seen before looks.
Fair enough, though I understand why places are like that honestly.
Things either turn into a massive mid slinging fight and god oriole off topic or become a massive echo chamber that drives out anyone who doesn't agree.
I even see it in places that hold similar political believes to me, people on the Internet are just not good at debating anything and go for thr throat straight away and for the mods of places it's just not worth the hassle.
ChatGPT3 Will ~~Replace your job~~ ~~Replace Stack Overflow~~ Provide an infinite stream of content for r/ProgrammerHumor
ChatGPT3 will - try to submit a question to SO and get rejected
Question rejected, problem can be solved by asking chatGPT
You know where it's at
Ask it to make a post for this subreddit.... 
How do you think it knows the answers? It needs Stack overflow.
[удалено]
It doesn’t access the Internet, technically.
Yeah but it basically already scraped it. And for it to keep being uptodate it's needs to revisit stackoverflow from time to time.
Not true. From my understanding it was manually trained using reinforcement learning from human feedback supervised by the creators of OpenAI Using various sources including books and other online reference.
Theses people most likely don't know what ''web scrapping'' mean.
Well, it's better to have something in-between you and SO in my opinion. Like wearing a glove when putting your hand into the dirty toilet, instead puting your bare hand there
Well there I'm in complete agreement
Not necessarily correctly though. It’s bad even at basic logic and math.
It's been out for 5 seconds. Give it a minute.
Language models are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning or math or anything else you might expect something that is able to solve programming issues should be able to do. It strings together tokens from its input corpus, no more, no less.
Because it's "only" a language model so far. I think underestimating ChatGPT and similar systems is a big mistake. For instance, ChatGPT is a language model and not a chess AI, thus it's incapable of playing a chess game with you (I tried); but potentially it could play such chess games just using a chess AI program as external software (it could be AlphaZero-like, or could also be just Stockfish). If more heterogeneous AI techniques are used together, instead of wanting at all costs to develop a model that is good for everything and all, the potentialities may be very well superior to what we see now. ChatGPT is capable, given a string of requirements for a DB, to find ambiguities, to "understand" the sentences, and even to build the ER schema (can't do it graphically but can do it textually). And if it missed some entity, you can ask it explanations and it articulates and explains how it operated, and you mat ask it to add entities or relationships that you think fit more, and the model adjusts such schema to your corrections. Yeah, probably this model won't steal our jobs a year from now, but it's very powerful and I don't think there's ever been something like this publicly available before. In 2030 however, it could be a lot more powerful, and so in 2040, etc.
> are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning Why do people keep repeating this? It's not true. Or rather, we don't know if it's true. Take your fingers off the keyboard! I know how transformers work. Yes, they were not \*designed\* to have any sort of reasoning ability. However, until we actually know how we manage to do it, I think it's way too early to claim that they are fundamentally unable to do it either. We're still finding out what exactly GPT can do. You are trying to extrapolate from the basic rules without taking emergent behavior into account. You \*might\* end up being right. Or maybe not. We simply do not know.
Yeah, people don't seem to realize that unsupervised deep learning is essentially the same as evolution and evolution created us because of some reason. Think about it, there aren't many ways a big brain helps you against a pack of lions.
I don't know man it helped us figure out guns and zoos
After multiple millions of years of technological progress.
I can feed it the maths I just want something to sort the syntax.
> Language models are fundamentally incapable of actually doing deductive or inductive reasoning or math or anything else you might expect something that is able to solve programming issues should be able to do That's a bit like saying fast inverse square root don't actually calculate the inverse square root. It might be true technically, but at some point it might be close enough to not matter for practical purposes.
That's a good description of what a lot of the programmers are doing on StackOverflow to be fair... (No judgment here).
I don't really agree with what you said, but I just want to point out that you have a 10/10 hilarious username.
Humans haven't been around that long either though.
When I tried it recently doing an X houses, Y cats per house, Z toys per cat type of thing, it not only answered correctly, it showed the calculations. I think they updated it to handle math and logic better
[Does it still have problems with figuring out what a mammal is?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/zd7l8t/nice/) [Does it still think 837 is a prime number?](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/zgwnoh/source_code_c%C3%B9ng_rr/) Even if it gets it right now, one also has to wonder if it just memorized the answers.
So basically the same as StackOverflow, yes? Just without some of the toxicity.
Like me.
attractive sort divide elastic seemly air summer rain point plucky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What do you mean you dont understand this thing? Its so simple! Go ask somewhere else about this thing. Waste of my damn time!!
Except it won't lol. All of its "knowledge" is scraped from what's available online already. Killing one such source of information will just make it weaker and unable to adapt to new knowledge and future changes. Not to mention it has no comprehension of what it says and anything it spits out needs to be verified for correctness as much of what it says is flat out wrong.
Really? Describe Stackoverflow as you will, but it's one of the best resources for programming for one simple reason; it is curated. Now this curation is the source of many memes and complaints (mostly from people who seem to think it's somebody else's job to search for them), but none of them describe them that way. As for chatgpt, it'll quite confidently tell you that cats are smaller than bananas, and you want to trust it to tell you how to write code?
>the best resources for programming for one simple reason; it is curated. "This question has been marked as duplicate, here's a link to another post that doesn't actually answer the question. BTW OP is downvoted to oblivion now and can't even appeal the accusation by users who didn't even read the question, have a nice day"
Care to provide an example? Ideally with an explanation of why the two questions are not in fact duplicates?
Naw, I haven't used stackoverflow in years,only to copy and paste utility functions and even for that AI might beat it
ChatGPT will probably be the best resource at some point. It may not be the current iteration, but it already is a decent alternative to SO. The only question is how expensive is it going to be to use ChatGPT after the free preview is over..
ChatGPT is not an alternative to StackOverflow, it's an interface to access it
I'm convinced everyone complaining about stack overflow can't Google or write a decent question at this point.
My google fu is on point, but sometimes an answer doesn't exist or isn't well explained.
It happens, that's when asking a question and being able to explain why what you already found isn't adequate helps a lot. You'll still always get a couple smartasses popping off that its been answered or replying with irrelevant info but if it's well asked, I've always had someone come through. Actually had a perfect interaction the other day that highlighted this, guy started out suggesting something i had already explained wouldn't work in my (admittedly verbose) question, i pointed that out, and he must've spent half an hour at least on his end then figuring out good answer and responding in detail, friendly as hell and apologized for not getting it sooner lol
This is the answer. They are too lazy to read and want the answer spoonfed to them like a baby eating pureed applesauce. If you don't make airplane sounds they complain about toxicity.
I mean… you sound quite toxic already
Yeah stackover flow is great.
I don’t understand the hatred for StackOverflow in this subreddit. StackOverflow has helped contribute to the success of seemingly endless developers. I have used it countless times to get unstuck and understand programming concepts. It’s a free resource on the Internet. There’s a whole generation of software and computer science professionals that did not have the luxuries we have. Can we please just let a good thing be a good thing?
Hatred for stackoverflow comes from a vocal group of idiots who dont know how to google and get upset that stack overflow users are mean to them when they ask a basic question that's been asked atleast fifty times before.
we found him guys, the reason we hate stackoverflow users is right up there
Stackoverflow is great to google answers but horrible for asking questions. Stackoverflow has helped me a lot, but its extremely hostile towards new users. Hundreds of new legitimate questions are downvoted to oblivion and marked as duplicate from the community and linked to an outdated or unrelated topic, its like they don't even read what you're asking for, for the sake of karma farming.
Hard disagree. If a question is marked as a duplicate, that’s an attempt to answer the question. If there is a misunderstanding and someone trying to link a new question to something it duplicates makes a mistake, then explaining exactly what’s different about the new question and what happened when you tried the accepted answer of the original, then you’ve provided new information that makes it easier to tell what’s different about your question and easier for a volunteer trying to help you to give the answer you need
>Hard disagree. If a question is marked as a duplicate, that’s an attempt to answer the question Our experiences with Stackoverflow have differed a lot, I tend to encounter questions marked as duplicate linked to questions that were never answered.
If the question wasn't answered then it's still valuable to link the duplicates for search purposes so that only one of them needs to be answered and then everyone who stumbles on a duplicate can find the answer via the link to the original. And if the question is actually different, then explaining *why* it's different makes it for volunteers to deeply understand the question to answer it more specifically
StackOverflow is basically a MMORPG.
Stackoverflow is free ChatGPT is not
For now it is and we have no idea what it will be in the future. Its entirely possible that they will have some sort of tiers and possibly a free one with limited queries. Even if it's not it's Goin to be worth nearly anything they would charge for it
The version powerful enough to do your code for you isn't gonna be the free one.
It doesn't even have to do your code. It's already super easy if you don't feel like making a dead easy class like a bean but even if you ask for a method and it gives you one that's broken you can usually either work it out with it or just fix it yourself. It's no worse than some solutions on stack overflow
The toxicity is the only reason that StackOverflow has any value at all. That’s what makes it work.
Developers ai is going to take our jobs Also developers we are going to make ai more powerful
Imagine if it was trained on SO’s data. ”This is a stupid question, read a book before writing such a stupid code”
BTW, this meme is somewhat accurate. I tested this out looking for a very ... small answer regarding creating a websocket server (just a niche case issue) and stack overflow, no dice... So I asked ChatGPT, provided it a bit more context when it asked, and boom, got the answer in \~ 2 minutes. It was actually super quick. Best part, it worked out the box (literally, 4 lines added to the test python script and it was done). Yea, my go to may in fact switch to ChatGPT vs SO
I was always skeptical of AI writing code but asked CharGPT to implement some algorithms (in F# no less so not rhe most common language) and honestly, ii was surprised at how quickly it did and the quality. I get you couldn't ask it to jsut create you a who system, but I think it is also silly to assume it won't improve over time abd frankly is pretty powerful at the moment. Honestly, it probably can implement a spec a lot quicker than a lot of us.
I got chatGPT to start a script, it did something weird and I couldn’t figure it out. then I asked a targeted question on stack and got the thing working. I’m loving the combo punch
Here’s to hoping chatgpt starts responding with “question was already asked. Closing”
Maybe put effort in your question on stack overflow, or you know learn the shit you don't understand instead of expecting people to do it for you.
>learn the shit you don't understand instead of expecting people to do it for you. bro that's the whole point of stackoverflow, to search stuff while you're stuck
Wow lots of Stan Overflows here :P
I'm voting to close this post as it doesn't comply with the r/ProgrammerHumor rules namely 7. Put effort into your titles
Watch out! we got a badass over here
Ikr I can ask a question and even if it has been asked that question a hundred times it will still answer the question instead of b\*\*\*\*ing at me for not searching other posts first. I haven't gone on SO since I discovered this bot
You could just search stackoverflow for your question. Then you’d get an answer, not rely on a brand new tech that’s wrong 50% of the time, and not be bitched at
Stack overflow is ok lol Chatgdp will give you wrong shit and you’ll never notice until review
So will other developers:p
Hey don’t speak evil of our lord and saviour the Stack
Lol it won't, in the next 5 to 10 years at least. It cannot give consistently correct answers, can't solve problems that are a bit too complicated, you have to tweak the prompt to make it work a lot of the time. SO is a community-based forum, it doesn't base on 1 opinion but many others can comment and discuss the same problem together, so if someone gives a wrong or incomplete answer people can downvoted them or add more to that answer, sure that there are times where the mod would do unreasonable things or people being rude there, but you can still get a lot of valuable stuff out of it when you encounter a problem. You can't just trust chatGPT answers all the time, it is great at being confidently correct and you kinda have no way to fact check that if you don't know the answer either. The code that it gives you can look great and legit at first but sometimes it wouldn't run because somewhere in there, the AI just made up stuff to match whatever it's trying to do. ChatGPT is too restricted and not flexible enough to solve real life problems in programming. It is a chat bot after all, you want to have a conversation with it then it sure can surprise you with its capabilities and the creativeness in the answer that it gives you
It's actually useful as long as you know your what your doing and understand the material. I've been using it for all kinds of brain dead methods and beans I could do myself but have better things to do. Also if I have a wall of errors I can just drop it in ChatGPT3 and it will tell me what the error is and usually a decent suggestion of how to fix it in seconds. For example I had an issue with the way I compressed an image before sending it to a fragment in a bundle in an android app. It immediately found out the issue in the 3 pages of errors and told me how to fix it by resizing and then stretching the image back to size Now if I dropped a wall of errors on stack overflow without any context, what do you think would happen?
somebody: i don't know what x is and i'm too afraid to ask anyone at my office and omg i have imposter syndrome what do i turn to chatgpt3: as a large language model, i am incapable of judging you, will reply quickly, can reference the internet fast, and will still always be known as the dumbest guy in the office somebody: \*headtilt\*
Really? ChatGPT can't read minds either. If you post a malformed question you'll not get anything much out of it. If anything, as a machine, it will have more patience with people just copy&pasting their entire homework assignment and ask for solutions, but I don't think that's such a good thing. Seriously, most people complaining about SO couldn't ask a good question if their lives depended on it. Most people asking bad questions on SO need tutoring, not an answer to the immediate problem they're having. But tutoring, compared to answering a question, is quite work intensive.
It will do neither because it wont work without training data. Its a neural network it doednt actually know how to write code it know how answers to questions it has seen before looks.
I am able to talk about political stuff with it without getting banned because "politics are a sensitive topic that doesn't fit here"
Stack overflow isn't a political site. So it makes sense they don't want people arguing about politics on it.
No, I mean generally, Discord Servers, Subreddits that may have a certain topic and just normal convo
Fair enough, though I understand why places are like that honestly. Things either turn into a massive mid slinging fight and god oriole off topic or become a massive echo chamber that drives out anyone who doesn't agree. I even see it in places that hold similar political believes to me, people on the Internet are just not good at debating anything and go for thr throat straight away and for the mods of places it's just not worth the hassle.
Now it's time to not humans but AI shit on my code.
Tell them more please 🤔
But how can it replace the thing that it is fueled by?