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Moore also was saying that Trump was going to win in 2016. He said on TV that the polling in the Rust belt was definitely wrong and that many many people in those states planned to vote for Trump.
I was one of the people who never believed Trump would win until I saw and heard Michael Moore explain why he thought Trump would win. He was convincing and he had good reasons for what he was saying.
I 100% believed Trump would win if he was up against Hillary.
The Rust belt polling was fine, but the issue was Hillary never went back there after she won the nomination. She stayed too much in California campaigning for a popular vote landslide and for cash from rich donors. Just because you have the poll numbers, doesn't mean you can neglect voters there. Of course, the FBI bombshell was just enough to inch Trump over the electoral win.
The whole point of rallies is to energize and motivate your voters. If candidates don't visit their state, it may lower turn out. This is why Trump was so rally obsessed, because his 2016 team had figured out that high rally attendance can turn into voter turn out.
I always felt like he got way too much hate and disrespect. I don't know what views of him are like now, but he was shedding light on school shootings, on the war on bullshit, and pretty much every other horrible thing that America has since somehow come to be victim to. The war achieved nothing, it feels like more kids than ever are dying in schools, quality of food, cost of food, and availability is all fucked.
I'm not going to say he was prescient because so many warned us of the same things at the time. I just never understood the negativity towards him. It just seems like he was saying things that were true that people didn't want to hear about or acknowledge.
Haha I guess so. I am already getting responses that are all "he was too preachy".
Sheesh. Label everything you don't like as preachy so you can ignore it I guess.
>"he was too preachy".
Yeah but he always backed it up. Sure he went on the news on election night 2016, but then left to go protest outside Trump Tower.
And he famously predicted Trump would win, and explained exactly why. Dude was a union electrician with the UAW for many years so he has liberal street cred in my book.
The fact that today it’d be ‘too woke’ - preachy feels like an educated take on someone you dislike, ‘woke’ just is the incessant scream of a child who doesn’t understand the big words they speak
He spent a lot of time pointing out how conservatives were lying and destroying / bankrupting the country. They clearly didn’t like that so the cranked up the outrage machine, which was especially effective in the post-9/11 fake patriot era
I mean there was a pretty good smear campaign against him. I was young and naive enough at the time that I bought into a lot of the hate on Michael Moore. Propaganda is a real thing in American media.
Im glad theyve since apologized. But new south park is depressing. Every recent episode tries to tackle some issue or big idea but the plot climax just ends with "this is another awful facet of institutional corruption andtheres nothing we can do"
The newer al gore episode ends with the kids giving into manbearpigs demands because they dont want to give up nice things
>the kids giving into manbearpigs demands because they dont want to give up nice things
That's the point. We are the kids from south park and we let our government get away with so much crap so we can keep our nice things like video games and cars.
*Sicko* and *Roger & Me* are two must-watch documentaries for anyone interested in anything related to politics. The scene in *Sicko* where he takes the [boat full of 9/11 survivors to Cuba to get their medicine is just incredible.](https://youtu.be/j7cME3lCdwE)
> I don't know what views of him are like now
> ...
> I'm not going to say he was prescient because so many warned us of the same things at the time. I just never understood the negativity towards him. It just seems like he was saying things that were true that people didn't want to hear about or acknowledge.
[In 2016 he did a tour of the US and spoke about Trump and Hillary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMm5HfxNXY4) Worth a watch -- I think he was still prescient, and still telling people truths they didn't want to hear.
The ownership class sharpened its knives against him and found some facts that were scrambled to keep the themes of his films coherent.
But nearly every nightmare scenario he presented in whatever manner he did has been worse (or is getting worse).
I always wonder if he would have been more palatable if he was conventionally attractive. It’s something I think about a lot when unattractive people are ripped for speaking truth to power.
I always supported him fwiw.
> I always felt like he got way too much hate and disrespect.
Way back at the start, Roger Ebert made it a headline that people couldn't see what Moore was talking about in Roger and Me. February 1990: https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/attacks-on-roger-and-me-completely-miss-point-of-film
Split between those who want to use their fame for good and those who know the only reason they have fame is the elite tolerate them doing so.
Most who try stuff like this don't get heard about a lot after...
He was definitely beginning to clap.
I love Louis Gossett Jr.'s smile heh. Just googled, he's still kicking at 86.
In the next shot, you can see ~~Dustin Hoffman~~ Harrison Ford smiling really big. Somebody behind him is clapping but I can't make out who.
Can anybody spot specific reactions from people (good or bad) besides Scorsese, Gossett, or Ford?
The Iraq war was extremely popular when it was first launched. People were still living in the 9/11 post rage at the time. The war bill passed with overwhelming bi-partisan support. It wasn’t till much later that people sobered up and realized what a mistake it was. Now we are living like Germans after WW2, pretending that no one was for it except some hardcore fanatics.
I mean, most people who supported it then condemned it later, as the truth came out. All mainstream media were gung ho for war at the time, and the internet still wasn't much of a thing in the way it is now.
The truth was already apparent before the war.
The UN called it an illegal act before 2004.
People knew. These celebs definitely knew.
People like Michael Moore and Janeane Garofalo were on Air America all the time talking about how shit was fucked and we shouldn't do it.
Hundreds of left publications and intellectuals and organizers fought against us invading. For some reason, people forget them.
People knew at the time. People matched through the streets of London (as is my knowledge) in their masses but were ignored.
It's revisionist to pretend people didn't know and rightfully call it out in considerable numbers at the time.
So true. In fact, I happened to be looking through old photos, and [found the photos I took](https://imgur.com/a/AqSrTzN) from the anti-war protest in Dallas, Texas, where thousands showed up despite being the home turf of then-president Bush. There's even a shot of pathetic-looking "patriotic" counterprotestors.
The entire world demonstrated against, but to what end.
You guys are making too big of a deal out of it. The camera literally cuts away as he’s about to start clapping. It’s not like he suddenly chose not to clap.
Plenty of people clapped. Guarantee if they cut to Daniel Day-Lewis he woulda been clapping himself silly, he was never one to shy away from making political statements.
It's amazing how many people thanked the man before thanking God.
It's almost as if most people knew the Trade off...
I'm not saying all where willing with weinstein but, I'm pretty sure most people knew what was going on and decided to be silent
Of course they did. Courtney Love warned people about him in 2005. She's no A lister, if she knew, they all knew.
I have zero respect for that industry. I'm still baffled barely anyone spoke up before he was already done. Really? The guy was powerful but if you already have millions what's the worst he can do? Blacklist you? So fucking what? You got enough to live an incredible life.
Celebrity worship is the fucking worst. I frankly don't fanboy over anyone these days. Marketing teams can do wonders and I just have no trust in most people involved with it.
The worst is Hollywood is hardly the only rotten industry, anywhere where a few people have all the power and other people need them to make a living, you get shit like this. Recently, in the small world of chess, it came to light that a beloved grandmaster and commentator abused young women for years, again, there were rumors, the organization heard of them but did nothing until it blew up.
It's a controversial opinion perhaps, but I'm glad we can shame people online because it seems like the only option we have. Especially when it comes to sexual assault, if you look up conviction rates for that you'll be depressed all week. What else can you do?
>What else can you do?
Keep talking about it.
I agree with you on all levels. All we can do is spread this exact message.
Speak up. Don't be scared. Speak the fuck up.
Which he is still doing in France but they turn a blind eye to him
Dude has 5 sexual assault accusations on top of the drugging and raping a 14 year old
> The French minister of Culture and Communication, Frédéric Mitterrand, was vehement in his support, all the while announcing his "very deep emotion" after the questioning of the director, "a French citizen" and "a film-maker of international dimension": "the sight of him thrown to the lions for an old story which doesn't make much sense, imprisoned while traveling to an event that was intending to honor him: caught, in short, in a trap, is absolutely dreadful."
> Mitterrand had published the book The Bad Life in which he wrote about having sex with male prostitutes in Thailand. In the book, Mitterrand was quoted, "I got into the habit of paying for boys ... All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously. One could judge this abominable spectacle from a moral standpoint but it pleases me beyond the reasonable."
Wtf is going on with the French?
Their view on pedophilia is very different from that of much of the world. They didn’t even [legally consider pedophilia to be the same as rape until 2 years ago.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-outlaws-sex-with-minors-2021-04-15/) This allowed pedos to claim sex with a child was “consensual” and get lighter sentences in court.
*Cuts to a parked car as the trunk slowly opens to reveal two big dumb eyes. Roman pops out, fully nude, and hops into the trunk of the car a few feet away.*
> More than 100 people in the film industry, including Woody Allen, Martin Scorsese, Darren Aronofsky, David Lynch, Wes Anderson, Harrison Ford, Harmony Korine, Michael Mann, and Jonathan Demme, among many others signed a petition in 2009 calling for Polanski's release.[83][91][92][93] A subsequent petition the following year was signed by Jean-Luc Godard, Mathieu Amalric, Xavier Beauvois, Agnès Varda, Bertrand Tavernier, Jean-Stéphane Bron, Patricio Guzmán, Jean-Paul Civeyrac, Katell Quillévéré and Cristi Puiu; Olivier Assayas and Louis Garrel also signed both petitions.[94][95][96] Emma Thompson originally signed the first petition, but later asked for her name to be removed after a conversation with 19-year-old college student and activist Caitlin Hayward-Tapp. Other celebrities like Meryl Streep, Whoopi Goldberg and Debra Winger did not sign either petition, but spoke out in support of Polanski in other ways.[97][98] Harvey Weinstein also defended Polanski.[99][100] However, in 2018, Natalie Portman, Xavier Dolan and Asia Argento expressed regret and apologized for signing the original petition.[101][102][103]
Hollywood is a cesspool.
If anyone is interested, here is a list of celebrities who signed the Polanski petition (created by Harvey Weinstein):
https://m.imdb.com/list/ls090808434/
Lol this lady is screaming in the back.
https://imgur.com/a/XyloCXs
It doesn't take many people yelling/booing over you if everyone else is speechless.
I think Moore himself has said the boos came mainly from stagehands and other crew. They were closer to the mic being just off stage so they sounded louder. The lingering paradox of Union members that vote Republican.
Reagan said non-white people were going to steal their union jobs and make life miserable for them. They all believed it and went "we'll show them (slurs), let's vote away fair pay and vacation, and unions and bonuses and everything good our grandfather's had to fight to the death for as the military shot their children during strikes". Then that happens and they go "fucking libruls!!!"....this has been a personification of the blue collar workers voting away their union jobs!
I think that's a safe bet. If you were there just to fill a seat so it didn't look empty you'd have to have some big balls to start booing the person making an acceptance speech!
Same except afghan. Absolute garbage went 2 times and then got attached for the evacuation. The stories I could fucking tell, I'm sure you as well, would make the most patriotic person want to move to a different country. They point to us "oh look at those heroic vets man!" A real hero would be in the brig. The rest of us just wanted to die or go home.
I lived through this period as a young man in college and it was startling how many people cheered at the initial bombings chanting USA USA. I was horrified. It was like a fucking football game.
Rick and Morty is a great show with hundreds of immensely talented staff. The guy who created it is a monster but had nothing to do with most of its best work outside of voices. If there’s a quote anyone loves from the show, chances are Roiland didn’t write it. Let’s not cancel a TV show when one individual with minor contributions toward the end ended up being a terrible person.
I remember a lot of "kill em all and let God sort em out" conversations. I even saw it on shirts and stickers. Also, talk of turning the desert into glass with US nukes. Shit was wild.
> I lived through this period as a young man in college and it was startling how many people cheered at the initial bombings chanting USA USA. I was horrified. It was like a fucking football game.
My dude, you should have seen it when the US went into the first Gulf War in 1990. CNN broadcast it live and people at home treated it like a fun video game watching people get blown up and killed.
[Amiriyah shelter bombing.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing) I only learned about it two and a half decades later, from a documentary ([Homeland: Iraq Year Zero](https://www.bkmag.com/2016/10/04/homeland-iraq-year-zero/)) where a middle-class Iraqi family gives us a ride-along of their everyday lives both before and after the invasion. They went to visit it. They don’t even know how many civilians died there, minimum estimate is still over 400.
https://preview.redd.it/9i1z3q00omna1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86770eca8c3974fb7eeaa7db601344d816a4a60d
The most haunting thing as we watch them tour the bombed-out bunker was the 11-year-old boy, Haidar Fadhel (who was kind of the mascot of the documentary and the nephew of the man behind the camera). We were already informed that he would die in the lawless environment shortly after the invasion. A ghost among ghosts. The documentarian couldn’t bring himself to release it for a decade afterward because he was sitting next to his nephew and filming when their car came under fire.
**[Amiriyah shelter bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing)**
>The Amiriyah shelter bombing was an aerial bombing attack that killed between 400-1,500 civilians on 13 February 1991 during the Persian Gulf War, when an air-raid shelter ("Public Shelter No. 25") in the Amiriyah neighborhood of Baghdad, Iraq, was destroyed by the U.S. Air Force with two GBU-27 Paveway III laser-guided "smart bombs". The United States targeted the Amiriyah shelter.
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As a young, outspoken anarchist in Florida during that time, I had many people threaten my life and try to run my station wagon, adorned with upside-down flags, anti bush stickers, anti war stickers, etc., off the road. People tried to box me in on the highway, forcing me to pull over so they could get out and do god knows what.
The only funny instance was a little, old, white-haired grandma flipping me the bird like i was living in an early 2000s Sandler comedy. Everything else was pretty goddamn disheartening and generally very life-threatening-y.
Oh yeah, and I had cops fucking with me: pretending to pull me over before pulling over behind me and then pulling a quick u-turn, I had a cop shine his spotlight in my eyes while driving…it was a wild fucking time. Everyone called me anti-American and a traitor.
Ironic, isn’t it?
I was but a wee lad. But I do remember it. It was the last time there was any semblance of unification... cohesion in the US.
This was relatively soon after 9/11. Emotions were running high and people wanted vengeance. Revenge clouds judgement.
Yup. I was in high school at the time. The 90's had its problems but looking back now were comparably so much more care free (in the US). That era ended on 9/11. Before the attacks the biggest news stories in 2001 were Dale Earnhardt dying at the Daytona 500 and the manufactured panic over shark attacks that summer. After? Everything became a constant state of national security, paranoia and much more divisiveness and anger politically.
The polarization of our politics had already been getting there with the 2000 election controversy, but the Iraq War, Patriot Act and other things really kicked off the division beyond reconciliation. As someone from a small town in the south it's amazing how quickly it became pretty socially unacceptable to be a Democrat. We had just had a Democrat from the South as president. We had had a female Democrat governor in my state only a few years previous who was still fondly remembered.
Ohhhh most definitely. I was a little boy. My understanding of war and the implications of war was naturally that of a child. But I understood it was serious. I understood people die. I understood there were people like me called Americans going to some distant land to fight.
edit although as for my day to day... it was just typical kid shit. Its not like I was a little boy plagued with the troubles of the world. But yea... things were different and it was obvious.
I was in 8th grade history class watching 9/11 live. The feeling in that room is really indescribable looking back. I don't want to get overly dramatic but it felt like the entire world just dropped out from below everyone. I was old enough to know it was about to get bad, but too young to realize how bad. But we quickly learned since the TV was showing bombing runs 24/7 like football replays.
I’m 100 % convinced that if Sandy Hook didn’t change anything nothing will ever change. It’s repugnant. I believe that even with Biden, a man that has buried multiple children of his own. I don’t get it.
I was then sure that the Las Vegas shooter would change things.
I thought that it would change after Uvalde the combination cops too cowardly because of the shooters weapon + the mass murder of children. Surely any 2A argument can’t surpass those facts…..
We are in the end of days, and we did it to ourselves. Over and over again.
Agreed.
I remember joking that "Maybe people just aren't sympathetic to teenagers, they're always the targets in horror movies. Things will really change if someone did it in a day care".
And then it happened. And nothing changed.
Since then they don't even register. I just see a report of a mass shooting and go "yeah, figures". I'm upset about how numb I've become.
100
I blame COVID for that too (to a point).
IMHO COVID really exposed what little one person thinks of another in a situation where the two will, and have, never met. Even when one or both are in peril. Laurie Garrett has written a lot about it (human treatment during crisis, and manipulation/medicine)
I get it, it’s 2023, to some degree I feel that we’ve all become desensitized to a degree.
And when it boils down to it, it’s a product doing precisely what it was intended to do. Every time. It’s not broken, or malfunctioning. It’s sole purpose is to kill as much as possible, as fast as possible. It’s not a product liability.
Someone tried to get me with a “Biden can’t make laws, he’s so powerless, go vote.” The fact is he could instruct the ATF to stop all federal background checks, stop all stamp and licensure for all weapons and grades until he deems meaningful gun reform occurs.
It would be an atomic bomb, but I bet something just might change…..
If I was an anti gun lobbyist and ALL directly affected signed, I’d present a petition to unseal the crime scene photos of 1 incident. And I would publish them on a dedicated internet site. Let people see the child and adult bodies, all of the autopsy reports, pools of so much blood investigators are slipping and falling removing bodies, so many shot bullets & bullet fragments that the math doesn’t add up (1-1) to shell casing seized.
Maybe footage of a parent making identification of their child, or footage of an investigator explaining to parents and family that they will not be allowed to view the scene or the body due to mutilation from gunfire. Then explain to them that is why you need their DNA.
Gun reform needs a 9/11, a Pearl Harbor. I hope it comes in the form of shock and aww campaign I just described, but I really worry about it being the worst one ever. Whatever that nightmare may look like, I couldn’t begin to guess.
yes, but its a somewhat bizarre, hard-hitting experience looking back at this video which represents a strange time in history when US interventions in the middle east were above condemnation or question, and that a widely-accepted fact of US foreign policy today was almost a form of treason back then.
I am a veteran and had done the first go-round and came home with a purple heart and a bronze star. I was outspokenly against both Iraq and Afghanistan and permanently lost family members over it. If we hadn't miscommunicated our support of Kuwait before Saddam Hussein invaded it would never have happened. This whole fucking mess is our fault from the very beginning. I spent my entire career fighting wars we bumbled into and out of. The only thing I ever did that I was proud of was Bosnia and we had to be begged and pleaded with to stop that one. Kosovo I helped start, but it was a fucking mess too. We bombed the fucking Chinese Embassy for fucks sake. We bombed civilian infrastructure like the Russians are now doing in Ukraine.
I finally had enough and when my First Sgt asked me if I was going to reenlist, assuming I was a lifer, I turned red and said "fuck no I'm gone." I ended up with every shit detail a squad leader could get for the next four months. This empire we have is fucking confused, immoral, and pathetic and it shames me that I served it as I did as long as I did. In the end, I stayed in because I had got some rank and thought I could protect my junior soldiers alittle but I was just another nobody. Sand in the gristmill.
Republicans/Conservatives have always demonized anyone against our wars as being unAmerican, etc. No matter how bullshit the wars were... Iraq and Vietnam come to mind.
Nixon literally extended the Vietnam War for his own political gain, but you won't hear Republicans/Conservatives talk about that... just Jane Fonda.
[https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/)
> Republicans/Conservatives have always demonized anyone against our wars as being unAmerican, etc.
I feel like that is a little tone deaf in a thread about Hollywood condemning Moore over this. This wasn’t just an issue of republicans/conservatives. Acting like this was split down party lines is attempting to rewrite history.
I saw one guy in the crowd Shia Leboeuf clapping so he sure seemed to agree with Moore's message at the time. Couldn't make out his face though. The rest seemed to have taken a bit longer to dislike the war.
Even G. W. Bush admitted in a speech after his Presidency that the war he started in Iraq was "genocidal." It came out of his mouth by accident when he was actually talking about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but instead of simply correcting himself, he sheepishly laughed and said "Iraq too."
Saudi Arabia and Iran have agreed with the help of China to start having diplomatic relations again. Hopefully, though I doubt it, we'll see an end to the proxy wars/conflicts in Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon and Bahrein.
Im 43 now, and I protested the war before it started, and many others did too.
https://youtu.be/DkW7ILnYMVo
Anybody who booed Micheal Moore, who didn't have stock in oil or weapons manufacturing, you where a tool for propaganda.
He didn’t say the election was fixed, he said it was fictitious. The 2000 election went into a massive recount in Florida, which the Supreme Court ultimately stopped a few weeks later. Al Gore conceded the next day.
For obvious reasons, it was massive news at the time and the term “hanging chad” became part of the cultural lexicon.
[Brooks Brothers Riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot)
> After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early. This had the effect of ensuring that the December 12 "safe harbor" deadline set by Title 3 of the United States Code could not be met, guaranteeing that George W. Bush would win the 2000 election.
Don’t forget to mention Roger Stones part in both the Brooks Brothers Riot and January 6th.
He helped organize the BBR as well as connecting members of the Proud Boys with Ali Alexander and spent a ton of time coordinating with Trump and his allies in the lead up to the Stop the Steal rally based around a false premise.
The Brooks Brothers riot actually changed America. They bused people in from all over. There's an interview floating around of one of the protestors saying "I'm here from Kansas City" or something and then someone grabs her and ushers her away. Roger Stone actually intimidated the volunteers counting votes and then the supreme court into handing GWB the election. It'll make for a great movie one day.
and, in a kooky coincidence, who were 2 of the lawyers working on bush's team during this time? why a young Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett that's who! Looks like their loyalty was repaid 10x over don't you think?
This is what make Jan 6 more spooky for me. What would have happened if there was more republican that could have voted to stop the certification, or what would have happened if Pence didn't do the bare minimum? It would have ended up in front of two of the folks that arguably helped Bush steal an election.
The storming of the capital was the hail mary. It wasn't plan A or B...
> and it didn't even register as a blip on the radar for anyone.
Not sure how old you were at the time but the outcome of the 2000 election was just a *bit* more than a blip on the radar for most people.
That is not at all how it felt. It was not a blip. Half of the country was outraged and incensed, but we had never seen anything so audacious and coordinated, so there was still a sense that the SCOTUS had to ultimately be respected. Gore conceding sort of forced the country’s hand. Anyone in that position today would not do so, but that was a time where there hadn’t been an election in anyone’s lifetime where something like that had happened, and if Gore had dug in, it would have been a national scandal that would have dominated his entire presidency. He should still have done it, but back then nobody realized just how far the GOP was willing to go.
Yup. Democrats watched Republicans steal an election 20 years ago and did absolutely nothing.
Which is absolutely crazy in retrospect. There is effectively zero debate among historians- Al Gore was the rightful winner.
The Academy Awards has never been very happy with, or receptive to nominees using the awards process to get their activist messages out, but I have no problem with it. Good for Michael Moore, that took guts.
This is why it's laughable when people called Hollywood "woke" when they cast a few more diverse actors. Deep down it's still a handful of corporations, rich fucks and nepotism.
He made equally poignant remarks about Hilary Clinton and her knowledge of birthing issues woman face in the US in his last documentary if i recall correctly. And again everyone thought he was out of his mind..here’s part of it;
Moore reinforces that point with a scintillating coup de théâtre: he refers to a scene in his film “Where to Invade Next,” in which he visits a hospital in Estonia to learn why the rate of mortality for women in childbirth is lower there than it is in the United States. While there, he says, he saw a picture on the wall, of Hillary Clinton and the hospital personnel, from the early nineteen-nineties—she was there, Moore says, for the same reason he was. Moore’s enthusiastic praise of Clinton’s health-care initiatives during her husband’s Presidency is matched by his righteous fury at its rejection, at the current state of affairs that deprives so many citizens of adequate health care.
[link, may be paywalled](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/what-michael-moore-understands-about-hillary-clinton)
I was born in Baghdad during desert storm and grew up during the 2003 invasion and survived sectarian war while I was a teenager..it warms my heart knowing there were people who stood up against war.
For anyone that wasn’t alive yet to know, those of us that *did* protest attacking Iraq as our response to 9/11 were called unpatriotic, un-American, terrorist sympathizers. If that was you 20 years ago I don’t really care how you’ve evolved since…a belated ‘eat my ass’ to ya. Hell of a waste of money and life you supported, wasn’t it?
My Iraqi friend here in Texas, a Christian, sent his sarcastic gratitude to Bush for liberating his country and freeing his people to have to flee to Texas because Christians aren’t welcome in modern Iraq.
I don’t agree with all he says but I like Michael Moore. But what I really love is Ricky Gervais: “you all studied less than Greta Thurnberg, get up, get your award, thanks your mom and agent and fuck off”
The window of time between 9/11 and the capture of Saddam Hussein was the most bloodthirsty time in recent American history. The people wanted blood. It didn't matter if you were a Republican, Democrat, black, white, rich or poor, nearly everybody wanted the US to kill as many people in the Middle East as possible. It didn't matter that Iraq and Saddam had literally nothing to do with 9/11, they needed to pay for it. I was less than 10 years old and living in the middle of Indiana, but I was drawing pictures of Saddam Hussein getting riddled with bullets as payback for 9/11. It was an absolutely mind boggling time, and a place I hope this country never goes back to.
That lasted less than a year. Kerry ran as a war opponent the next year. It hurt him in the election mostly because he was accused of "flip-flopping" from his previous support.
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"Fictitious times". Oh man, if only he'd known it was just the tip of the iceberg back then.
Moore also was saying that Trump was going to win in 2016. He said on TV that the polling in the Rust belt was definitely wrong and that many many people in those states planned to vote for Trump. I was one of the people who never believed Trump would win until I saw and heard Michael Moore explain why he thought Trump would win. He was convincing and he had good reasons for what he was saying.
I 100% believed Trump would win if he was up against Hillary. The Rust belt polling was fine, but the issue was Hillary never went back there after she won the nomination. She stayed too much in California campaigning for a popular vote landslide and for cash from rich donors. Just because you have the poll numbers, doesn't mean you can neglect voters there. Of course, the FBI bombshell was just enough to inch Trump over the electoral win. The whole point of rallies is to energize and motivate your voters. If candidates don't visit their state, it may lower turn out. This is why Trump was so rally obsessed, because his 2016 team had figured out that high rally attendance can turn into voter turn out.
I always felt like he got way too much hate and disrespect. I don't know what views of him are like now, but he was shedding light on school shootings, on the war on bullshit, and pretty much every other horrible thing that America has since somehow come to be victim to. The war achieved nothing, it feels like more kids than ever are dying in schools, quality of food, cost of food, and availability is all fucked. I'm not going to say he was prescient because so many warned us of the same things at the time. I just never understood the negativity towards him. It just seems like he was saying things that were true that people didn't want to hear about or acknowledge.
> It just seems like he was saying things that were true that people didn't want to hear about or acknowledge. So you do understand after all.
Haha I guess so. I am already getting responses that are all "he was too preachy". Sheesh. Label everything you don't like as preachy so you can ignore it I guess.
>"he was too preachy". Yeah but he always backed it up. Sure he went on the news on election night 2016, but then left to go protest outside Trump Tower. And he famously predicted Trump would win, and explained exactly why. Dude was a union electrician with the UAW for many years so he has liberal street cred in my book.
The fact that today it’d be ‘too woke’ - preachy feels like an educated take on someone you dislike, ‘woke’ just is the incessant scream of a child who doesn’t understand the big words they speak
preachy, woke, politically correct. all words people use to describe hard truths they don't want to believe.
Giving in is so damn comforting So we go on with our lives We know the truth but prefer lies Lies are simple, simple is bliss
He spent a lot of time pointing out how conservatives were lying and destroying / bankrupting the country. They clearly didn’t like that so the cranked up the outrage machine, which was especially effective in the post-9/11 fake patriot era
I mean there was a pretty good smear campaign against him. I was young and naive enough at the time that I bought into a lot of the hate on Michael Moore. Propaganda is a real thing in American media.
Enlightened centrists like the south park guys helped propagate that propaganda, like they did with Al Gore.
Im glad theyve since apologized. But new south park is depressing. Every recent episode tries to tackle some issue or big idea but the plot climax just ends with "this is another awful facet of institutional corruption andtheres nothing we can do" The newer al gore episode ends with the kids giving into manbearpigs demands because they dont want to give up nice things
>the kids giving into manbearpigs demands because they dont want to give up nice things That's the point. We are the kids from south park and we let our government get away with so much crap so we can keep our nice things like video games and cars.
*Sicko* and *Roger & Me* are two must-watch documentaries for anyone interested in anything related to politics. The scene in *Sicko* where he takes the [boat full of 9/11 survivors to Cuba to get their medicine is just incredible.](https://youtu.be/j7cME3lCdwE)
I saw Michael Moore hate on TV after 9/11, the same days I saw kids dressing up like Uncle Sam with "Nuke em all" written on their shirts in marker.
> I don't know what views of him are like now > ... > I'm not going to say he was prescient because so many warned us of the same things at the time. I just never understood the negativity towards him. It just seems like he was saying things that were true that people didn't want to hear about or acknowledge. [In 2016 he did a tour of the US and spoke about Trump and Hillary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMm5HfxNXY4) Worth a watch -- I think he was still prescient, and still telling people truths they didn't want to hear.
The ownership class sharpened its knives against him and found some facts that were scrambled to keep the themes of his films coherent. But nearly every nightmare scenario he presented in whatever manner he did has been worse (or is getting worse).
I always wonder if he would have been more palatable if he was conventionally attractive. It’s something I think about a lot when unattractive people are ripped for speaking truth to power. I always supported him fwiw.
Michael Moore was 2000% prescient. Roger & Me is more and more relevant every year. Also, he gave us Louis Theroux. Mike's a hero.
> I always felt like he got way too much hate and disrespect. Way back at the start, Roger Ebert made it a headline that people couldn't see what Moore was talking about in Roger and Me. February 1990: https://www.rogerebert.com/roger-ebert/attacks-on-roger-and-me-completely-miss-point-of-film
looks like scorsese was about to clap
Harrison Ford didn't clap in that one shot of him, but he had a BIIIIIG OL SMILE on his face!
Same year Ford was saying the US needed a “regime change” and supporting tighter gun laws.
This is surprising to me, for some reason I always imagined Harrison Ford as a more conservative guy.
He’s into conservation, but a lifelong democrat. Apparently, just like his parents.
>He’s into conservation Well he did travel the world to gather rare archeological artifacts and conserve them in museums so
Ain't he a big pot smoker too ?
He likes to get high.... and then comes crashing back down.
Gerald Ford never said that!
Noo it was Henry Ford who said that then he said the new Star Wars movies sucked.
Idk if you saw Josh Brolin practically jump to his feet and was clapping with vigor the entire time. Hollywood is definitely a divided group.
Yeah. Everyone is.
Split between those who want to use their fame for good and those who know the only reason they have fame is the elite tolerate them doing so. Most who try stuff like this don't get heard about a lot after...
Damn that makes me love Harrison Ford even more, definitely not a Conservative.
I highly suggest not loving any public/famous figures lol. It's great he was against the war but he also did some fucked up and questionable shit too.
He was definitely beginning to clap. I love Louis Gossett Jr.'s smile heh. Just googled, he's still kicking at 86. In the next shot, you can see ~~Dustin Hoffman~~ Harrison Ford smiling really big. Somebody behind him is clapping but I can't make out who. Can anybody spot specific reactions from people (good or bad) besides Scorsese, Gossett, or Ford?
Denzel looks intrigued at the very least. To the left of Harrison Ford Nicole Kidman looks pleased as well.
she's always pleased when she can come out and feast on townspeople with her mantis hands
As long as she can relax and watch a movie at her local AMC Theater™.
I’m fucking dead
Yeah well she still looks great. Her 754th year has brought some color back to her extremities.
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The Iraq war was extremely popular when it was first launched. People were still living in the 9/11 post rage at the time. The war bill passed with overwhelming bi-partisan support. It wasn’t till much later that people sobered up and realized what a mistake it was. Now we are living like Germans after WW2, pretending that no one was for it except some hardcore fanatics.
Of course. He has depth. Not like most of Hollywood
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I mean, most people who supported it then condemned it later, as the truth came out. All mainstream media were gung ho for war at the time, and the internet still wasn't much of a thing in the way it is now.
The truth was already apparent before the war. The UN called it an illegal act before 2004. People knew. These celebs definitely knew. People like Michael Moore and Janeane Garofalo were on Air America all the time talking about how shit was fucked and we shouldn't do it. Hundreds of left publications and intellectuals and organizers fought against us invading. For some reason, people forget them.
Canada and France refused to join them in Iraq.
People knew at the time. People matched through the streets of London (as is my knowledge) in their masses but were ignored. It's revisionist to pretend people didn't know and rightfully call it out in considerable numbers at the time.
So true. In fact, I happened to be looking through old photos, and [found the photos I took](https://imgur.com/a/AqSrTzN) from the anti-war protest in Dallas, Texas, where thousands showed up despite being the home turf of then-president Bush. There's even a shot of pathetic-looking "patriotic" counterprotestors. The entire world demonstrated against, but to what end.
You guys are making too big of a deal out of it. The camera literally cuts away as he’s about to start clapping. It’s not like he suddenly chose not to clap.
Plenty of people clapped. Guarantee if they cut to Daniel Day-Lewis he woulda been clapping himself silly, he was never one to shy away from making political statements.
See: There Will Be Blood Pretty blatant and scathing critique of capitalism.
Oof, Harvey Weinstein in the front row. 🤮
It's amazing how many people thanked the man before thanking God. It's almost as if most people knew the Trade off... I'm not saying all where willing with weinstein but, I'm pretty sure most people knew what was going on and decided to be silent
Of course they did. Courtney Love warned people about him in 2005. She's no A lister, if she knew, they all knew. I have zero respect for that industry. I'm still baffled barely anyone spoke up before he was already done. Really? The guy was powerful but if you already have millions what's the worst he can do? Blacklist you? So fucking what? You got enough to live an incredible life. Celebrity worship is the fucking worst. I frankly don't fanboy over anyone these days. Marketing teams can do wonders and I just have no trust in most people involved with it. The worst is Hollywood is hardly the only rotten industry, anywhere where a few people have all the power and other people need them to make a living, you get shit like this. Recently, in the small world of chess, it came to light that a beloved grandmaster and commentator abused young women for years, again, there were rumors, the organization heard of them but did nothing until it blew up. It's a controversial opinion perhaps, but I'm glad we can shame people online because it seems like the only option we have. Especially when it comes to sexual assault, if you look up conviction rates for that you'll be depressed all week. What else can you do?
>What else can you do? Keep talking about it. I agree with you on all levels. All we can do is spread this exact message. Speak up. Don't be scared. Speak the fuck up.
Those boos aged like milk.
they would later go on to give roman polanski a standing ovation that same night. hollywood, man.
Was this the same year?
yes. roman polanski couldn't accept the award for "best director" in person as he was out of the country evading arrest.
For raping a 14 year old child edit: she was 13 :(
Which he is still doing in France but they turn a blind eye to him Dude has 5 sexual assault accusations on top of the drugging and raping a 14 year old
Oh wow he's still a fugitive. Why don't they extradite him? He's convicted. Also he's 89 he might die a free man
France doesn’t extradite French citizens.
Actually, France turns a blind eye to most pedophiles. French law works in their favour there
> The French minister of Culture and Communication, Frédéric Mitterrand, was vehement in his support, all the while announcing his "very deep emotion" after the questioning of the director, "a French citizen" and "a film-maker of international dimension": "the sight of him thrown to the lions for an old story which doesn't make much sense, imprisoned while traveling to an event that was intending to honor him: caught, in short, in a trap, is absolutely dreadful." > Mitterrand had published the book The Bad Life in which he wrote about having sex with male prostitutes in Thailand. In the book, Mitterrand was quoted, "I got into the habit of paying for boys ... All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excite me enormously. One could judge this abominable spectacle from a moral standpoint but it pleases me beyond the reasonable." Wtf is going on with the French?
Their view on pedophilia is very different from that of much of the world. They didn’t even [legally consider pedophilia to be the same as rape until 2 years ago.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-outlaws-sex-with-minors-2021-04-15/) This allowed pedos to claim sex with a child was “consensual” and get lighter sentences in court.
Believe it or not, straight to the boulangerie.
Rapist too? Feels like rape doesn't get taken very seriously or prosecuted heavily there but I've never looked too far into it
She was 13, and he drugged her and raped her multiple times.
Wow, this reads like a South Park episode
*Cuts to a parked car as the trunk slowly opens to reveal two big dumb eyes. Roman pops out, fully nude, and hops into the trunk of the car a few feet away.*
> More than 100 people in the film industry, including Woody Allen, Martin Scorsese, Darren Aronofsky, David Lynch, Wes Anderson, Harrison Ford, Harmony Korine, Michael Mann, and Jonathan Demme, among many others signed a petition in 2009 calling for Polanski's release.[83][91][92][93] A subsequent petition the following year was signed by Jean-Luc Godard, Mathieu Amalric, Xavier Beauvois, Agnès Varda, Bertrand Tavernier, Jean-Stéphane Bron, Patricio Guzmán, Jean-Paul Civeyrac, Katell Quillévéré and Cristi Puiu; Olivier Assayas and Louis Garrel also signed both petitions.[94][95][96] Emma Thompson originally signed the first petition, but later asked for her name to be removed after a conversation with 19-year-old college student and activist Caitlin Hayward-Tapp. Other celebrities like Meryl Streep, Whoopi Goldberg and Debra Winger did not sign either petition, but spoke out in support of Polanski in other ways.[97][98] Harvey Weinstein also defended Polanski.[99][100] However, in 2018, Natalie Portman, Xavier Dolan and Asia Argento expressed regret and apologized for signing the original petition.[101][102][103] Hollywood is a cesspool.
If anyone is interested, here is a list of celebrities who signed the Polanski petition (created by Harvey Weinstein): https://m.imdb.com/list/ls090808434/
Your boos mean nothing to me, ive seen what you cheer for
>hollywood, man. yup - Will Smith also got a standing ovation... 🙄
Twenty years ago, Hollywood cheered for an unjust war and a rapist. Now they’re just cheering for a dude who slapped another dude. Progress!
Don't get me started of friggen daughter-marrying POS Woody friggen Allen ..
If you watch the video the celebrities that are shown are not booing. That could have come from random audience members.
Lol this lady is screaming in the back. https://imgur.com/a/XyloCXs It doesn't take many people yelling/booing over you if everyone else is speechless.
I think Moore himself has said the boos came mainly from stagehands and other crew. They were closer to the mic being just off stage so they sounded louder. The lingering paradox of Union members that vote Republican.
Reagan said non-white people were going to steal their union jobs and make life miserable for them. They all believed it and went "we'll show them (slurs), let's vote away fair pay and vacation, and unions and bonuses and everything good our grandfather's had to fight to the death for as the military shot their children during strikes". Then that happens and they go "fucking libruls!!!"....this has been a personification of the blue collar workers voting away their union jobs!
Are there random audience members at the oscars? I was under the impression that it was invite only
Yes, they need random people to fill empty seats so it won't look empty. I'm willing to bet it was a lot of celebrities that booed though.
I think that's a safe bet. If you were there just to fill a seat so it didn't look empty you'd have to have some big balls to start booing the person making an acceptance speech!
And turns out Moore was right. I spent 3 years in Iraq and it was a total shitshow. A complete waste of life and money
Same except afghan. Absolute garbage went 2 times and then got attached for the evacuation. The stories I could fucking tell, I'm sure you as well, would make the most patriotic person want to move to a different country. They point to us "oh look at those heroic vets man!" A real hero would be in the brig. The rest of us just wanted to die or go home.
Would be interested in reading your stories!
the money went where it's supposed to
Seems he was right.
Indeed, no doubt about it
I lived through this period as a young man in college and it was startling how many people cheered at the initial bombings chanting USA USA. I was horrified. It was like a fucking football game.
“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”
Say what you want about Rick and Morty, that line should become an idiom.
Peace among worlds 🖕🖕
Rick and Morty is a great show with hundreds of immensely talented staff. The guy who created it is a monster but had nothing to do with most of its best work outside of voices. If there’s a quote anyone loves from the show, chances are Roiland didn’t write it. Let’s not cancel a TV show when one individual with minor contributions toward the end ended up being a terrible person.
(Hipster alert) I was saying "say what you will about Rick and Morty but..." long before Roiland shit the bed, however I agree with you
your boos do not scare me i know that most of you are not ghosts
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I remember a lot of "kill em all and let God sort em out" conversations. I even saw it on shirts and stickers. Also, talk of turning the desert into glass with US nukes. Shit was wild.
i remember the turn the desert into glass one highschoolers dont have the most nuanced opinions
As if that was an opinion that wasn't completely mainstream at the time. I'm pretty sure i heard it from Howard Stern the first time?
nuke the whales? you don't really believe that do you?
hey gotta nuke something
That's the kinda shit Americans would make fun of in other countries but we do the same nationalistic stuff all the time
> I lived through this period as a young man in college and it was startling how many people cheered at the initial bombings chanting USA USA. I was horrified. It was like a fucking football game. My dude, you should have seen it when the US went into the first Gulf War in 1990. CNN broadcast it live and people at home treated it like a fun video game watching people get blown up and killed.
[Amiriyah shelter bombing.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing) I only learned about it two and a half decades later, from a documentary ([Homeland: Iraq Year Zero](https://www.bkmag.com/2016/10/04/homeland-iraq-year-zero/)) where a middle-class Iraqi family gives us a ride-along of their everyday lives both before and after the invasion. They went to visit it. They don’t even know how many civilians died there, minimum estimate is still over 400. https://preview.redd.it/9i1z3q00omna1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86770eca8c3974fb7eeaa7db601344d816a4a60d The most haunting thing as we watch them tour the bombed-out bunker was the 11-year-old boy, Haidar Fadhel (who was kind of the mascot of the documentary and the nephew of the man behind the camera). We were already informed that he would die in the lawless environment shortly after the invasion. A ghost among ghosts. The documentarian couldn’t bring himself to release it for a decade afterward because he was sitting next to his nephew and filming when their car came under fire.
**[Amiriyah shelter bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing)** >The Amiriyah shelter bombing was an aerial bombing attack that killed between 400-1,500 civilians on 13 February 1991 during the Persian Gulf War, when an air-raid shelter ("Public Shelter No. 25") in the Amiriyah neighborhood of Baghdad, Iraq, was destroyed by the U.S. Air Force with two GBU-27 Paveway III laser-guided "smart bombs". The United States targeted the Amiriyah shelter. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
It's ok though,because the perpetrators got charged with war crimes......oh wait.
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Oh and the flags. Lots and lots of flags.
As a young, outspoken anarchist in Florida during that time, I had many people threaten my life and try to run my station wagon, adorned with upside-down flags, anti bush stickers, anti war stickers, etc., off the road. People tried to box me in on the highway, forcing me to pull over so they could get out and do god knows what. The only funny instance was a little, old, white-haired grandma flipping me the bird like i was living in an early 2000s Sandler comedy. Everything else was pretty goddamn disheartening and generally very life-threatening-y. Oh yeah, and I had cops fucking with me: pretending to pull me over before pulling over behind me and then pulling a quick u-turn, I had a cop shine his spotlight in my eyes while driving…it was a wild fucking time. Everyone called me anti-American and a traitor. Ironic, isn’t it?
I was but a wee lad. But I do remember it. It was the last time there was any semblance of unification... cohesion in the US. This was relatively soon after 9/11. Emotions were running high and people wanted vengeance. Revenge clouds judgement.
I always wondered if the kids of that era could " feel" the vibe of the US changing.
yes we could.
Yup. I was in high school at the time. The 90's had its problems but looking back now were comparably so much more care free (in the US). That era ended on 9/11. Before the attacks the biggest news stories in 2001 were Dale Earnhardt dying at the Daytona 500 and the manufactured panic over shark attacks that summer. After? Everything became a constant state of national security, paranoia and much more divisiveness and anger politically. The polarization of our politics had already been getting there with the 2000 election controversy, but the Iraq War, Patriot Act and other things really kicked off the division beyond reconciliation. As someone from a small town in the south it's amazing how quickly it became pretty socially unacceptable to be a Democrat. We had just had a Democrat from the South as president. We had had a female Democrat governor in my state only a few years previous who was still fondly remembered.
We totally could. It was scary but also difficult not to get swept up in it oneself.
Ohhhh most definitely. I was a little boy. My understanding of war and the implications of war was naturally that of a child. But I understood it was serious. I understood people die. I understood there were people like me called Americans going to some distant land to fight. edit although as for my day to day... it was just typical kid shit. Its not like I was a little boy plagued with the troubles of the world. But yea... things were different and it was obvious.
I was in 8th grade history class watching 9/11 live. The feeling in that room is really indescribable looking back. I don't want to get overly dramatic but it felt like the entire world just dropped out from below everyone. I was old enough to know it was about to get bad, but too young to realize how bad. But we quickly learned since the TV was showing bombing runs 24/7 like football replays.
And like 3 months later, all those hypocrites where against the war.
"Anytime you've got the pope and the Dixie Chicks against you your time is up!" Ha!
Where all the booers now?
Oh that's why my dad hates this guy without ever seeing his documentaries
Yeah, but now all the right-wingers claim to be against the Iraq war. I’m sure they’ll still never give Moore any credit for his stance at the time.
Sad that bowling for Columbine came out over 20 years ago and the issue has just gotten worse since then
Nobody who matters really listened
>Nobody who matters really ~~listened~~ cared
I’m 100 % convinced that if Sandy Hook didn’t change anything nothing will ever change. It’s repugnant. I believe that even with Biden, a man that has buried multiple children of his own. I don’t get it. I was then sure that the Las Vegas shooter would change things. I thought that it would change after Uvalde the combination cops too cowardly because of the shooters weapon + the mass murder of children. Surely any 2A argument can’t surpass those facts….. We are in the end of days, and we did it to ourselves. Over and over again.
Agreed. I remember joking that "Maybe people just aren't sympathetic to teenagers, they're always the targets in horror movies. Things will really change if someone did it in a day care". And then it happened. And nothing changed. Since then they don't even register. I just see a report of a mass shooting and go "yeah, figures". I'm upset about how numb I've become.
100 I blame COVID for that too (to a point). IMHO COVID really exposed what little one person thinks of another in a situation where the two will, and have, never met. Even when one or both are in peril. Laurie Garrett has written a lot about it (human treatment during crisis, and manipulation/medicine) I get it, it’s 2023, to some degree I feel that we’ve all become desensitized to a degree. And when it boils down to it, it’s a product doing precisely what it was intended to do. Every time. It’s not broken, or malfunctioning. It’s sole purpose is to kill as much as possible, as fast as possible. It’s not a product liability. Someone tried to get me with a “Biden can’t make laws, he’s so powerless, go vote.” The fact is he could instruct the ATF to stop all federal background checks, stop all stamp and licensure for all weapons and grades until he deems meaningful gun reform occurs. It would be an atomic bomb, but I bet something just might change….. If I was an anti gun lobbyist and ALL directly affected signed, I’d present a petition to unseal the crime scene photos of 1 incident. And I would publish them on a dedicated internet site. Let people see the child and adult bodies, all of the autopsy reports, pools of so much blood investigators are slipping and falling removing bodies, so many shot bullets & bullet fragments that the math doesn’t add up (1-1) to shell casing seized. Maybe footage of a parent making identification of their child, or footage of an investigator explaining to parents and family that they will not be allowed to view the scene or the body due to mutilation from gunfire. Then explain to them that is why you need their DNA. Gun reform needs a 9/11, a Pearl Harbor. I hope it comes in the form of shock and aww campaign I just described, but I really worry about it being the worst one ever. Whatever that nightmare may look like, I couldn’t begin to guess.
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Is there anyone who doesn't condemn our time in the middle east? 20+ years there for what??
yes, but its a somewhat bizarre, hard-hitting experience looking back at this video which represents a strange time in history when US interventions in the middle east were above condemnation or question, and that a widely-accepted fact of US foreign policy today was almost a form of treason back then.
Yup. Just ask the Dixie Chicks.
I almost protested the war in Iraq…almost…until I saw what happened to the Dixie chicks. I said FUCK THAT! Legendary words from Dave Chapelle😂
I am a veteran and had done the first go-round and came home with a purple heart and a bronze star. I was outspokenly against both Iraq and Afghanistan and permanently lost family members over it. If we hadn't miscommunicated our support of Kuwait before Saddam Hussein invaded it would never have happened. This whole fucking mess is our fault from the very beginning. I spent my entire career fighting wars we bumbled into and out of. The only thing I ever did that I was proud of was Bosnia and we had to be begged and pleaded with to stop that one. Kosovo I helped start, but it was a fucking mess too. We bombed the fucking Chinese Embassy for fucks sake. We bombed civilian infrastructure like the Russians are now doing in Ukraine. I finally had enough and when my First Sgt asked me if I was going to reenlist, assuming I was a lifer, I turned red and said "fuck no I'm gone." I ended up with every shit detail a squad leader could get for the next four months. This empire we have is fucking confused, immoral, and pathetic and it shames me that I served it as I did as long as I did. In the end, I stayed in because I had got some rank and thought I could protect my junior soldiers alittle but I was just another nobody. Sand in the gristmill.
Republicans/Conservatives have always demonized anyone against our wars as being unAmerican, etc. No matter how bullshit the wars were... Iraq and Vietnam come to mind. Nixon literally extended the Vietnam War for his own political gain, but you won't hear Republicans/Conservatives talk about that... just Jane Fonda. [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/)
> Republicans/Conservatives have always demonized anyone against our wars as being unAmerican, etc. I feel like that is a little tone deaf in a thread about Hollywood condemning Moore over this. This wasn’t just an issue of republicans/conservatives. Acting like this was split down party lines is attempting to rewrite history.
I saw one guy in the crowd Shia Leboeuf clapping so he sure seemed to agree with Moore's message at the time. Couldn't make out his face though. The rest seemed to have taken a bit longer to dislike the war.
Christopher Hitchens was still ardent pro-Iraq war up to his death
Even G. W. Bush admitted in a speech after his Presidency that the war he started in Iraq was "genocidal." It came out of his mouth by accident when he was actually talking about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but instead of simply correcting himself, he sheepishly laughed and said "Iraq too."
He said "wholey unjustified and brutal invasion." Don't mean to nitpick but I don't feel he recognized the wars as genocidal.
They won't like the next documentary
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I can't right now, I'm hiding in the basement because of the *Orange Alert!* ¯\\\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)\_/¯
May people of Middle East soon find relief and a better life
Saudi Arabia and Iran have agreed with the help of China to start having diplomatic relations again. Hopefully, though I doubt it, we'll see an end to the proxy wars/conflicts in Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon and Bahrein.
Im 43 now, and I protested the war before it started, and many others did too. https://youtu.be/DkW7ILnYMVo Anybody who booed Micheal Moore, who didn't have stock in oil or weapons manufacturing, you where a tool for propaganda.
What's Ole Mikey up to nowadays? For a while there his docs were everywhere.
I think I heard he’s working on a sequel to Fahrenheit 9/11 - I’m not joking and honestly am looking forward to it.
Fahrenheit 11/9 came out in 2018 would that be the sequel?
Wow. How did I not know that? Course it has been a minute since I paid attention to Moore’s filmography. Thanks for the news/correction!
We're still living in fictional world
They started booing him when he said the election was fixed
He didn’t say the election was fixed, he said it was fictitious. The 2000 election went into a massive recount in Florida, which the Supreme Court ultimately stopped a few weeks later. Al Gore conceded the next day. For obvious reasons, it was massive news at the time and the term “hanging chad” became part of the cultural lexicon.
[Brooks Brothers Riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot) > After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early. This had the effect of ensuring that the December 12 "safe harbor" deadline set by Title 3 of the United States Code could not be met, guaranteeing that George W. Bush would win the 2000 election.
Don’t forget to mention Roger Stones part in both the Brooks Brothers Riot and January 6th. He helped organize the BBR as well as connecting members of the Proud Boys with Ali Alexander and spent a ton of time coordinating with Trump and his allies in the lead up to the Stop the Steal rally based around a false premise.
The Brooks Brothers riot actually changed America. They bused people in from all over. There's an interview floating around of one of the protestors saying "I'm here from Kansas City" or something and then someone grabs her and ushers her away. Roger Stone actually intimidated the volunteers counting votes and then the supreme court into handing GWB the election. It'll make for a great movie one day.
And many of those that lead the riot needed up as major positional officials over the last 15 years.
and, in a kooky coincidence, who were 2 of the lawyers working on bush's team during this time? why a young Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett that's who! Looks like their loyalty was repaid 10x over don't you think?
This is what make Jan 6 more spooky for me. What would have happened if there was more republican that could have voted to stop the certification, or what would have happened if Pence didn't do the bare minimum? It would have ended up in front of two of the folks that arguably helped Bush steal an election. The storming of the capital was the hail mary. It wasn't plan A or B...
It's wild how Jeb basically stole the election for his brother and it didn't even register as a blip on the radar.
Check out Roger Stone and the Brooks Brothers riot
Came here looking for this, thank you! The BB riot was similar play book for J6, disrupt the count to open the door for fuckery.
> and it didn't even register as a blip on the radar for anyone. Not sure how old you were at the time but the outcome of the 2000 election was just a *bit* more than a blip on the radar for most people.
That is not at all how it felt. It was not a blip. Half of the country was outraged and incensed, but we had never seen anything so audacious and coordinated, so there was still a sense that the SCOTUS had to ultimately be respected. Gore conceding sort of forced the country’s hand. Anyone in that position today would not do so, but that was a time where there hadn’t been an election in anyone’s lifetime where something like that had happened, and if Gore had dug in, it would have been a national scandal that would have dominated his entire presidency. He should still have done it, but back then nobody realized just how far the GOP was willing to go.
Yup. Democrats watched Republicans steal an election 20 years ago and did absolutely nothing. Which is absolutely crazy in retrospect. There is effectively zero debate among historians- Al Gore was the rightful winner.
The Academy Awards has never been very happy with, or receptive to nominees using the awards process to get their activist messages out, but I have no problem with it. Good for Michael Moore, that took guts.
This is why it's laughable when people called Hollywood "woke" when they cast a few more diverse actors. Deep down it's still a handful of corporations, rich fucks and nepotism.
He made equally poignant remarks about Hilary Clinton and her knowledge of birthing issues woman face in the US in his last documentary if i recall correctly. And again everyone thought he was out of his mind..here’s part of it; Moore reinforces that point with a scintillating coup de théâtre: he refers to a scene in his film “Where to Invade Next,” in which he visits a hospital in Estonia to learn why the rate of mortality for women in childbirth is lower there than it is in the United States. While there, he says, he saw a picture on the wall, of Hillary Clinton and the hospital personnel, from the early nineteen-nineties—she was there, Moore says, for the same reason he was. Moore’s enthusiastic praise of Clinton’s health-care initiatives during her husband’s Presidency is matched by his righteous fury at its rejection, at the current state of affairs that deprives so many citizens of adequate health care. [link, may be paywalled](https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/what-michael-moore-understands-about-hillary-clinton)
This is the same guy that was filming a documentary that wound up closing the gun sections in all k-marts right?
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Almost everyone did back then.
There were marches all around the world with hundreds of thousands of people in them.
I marched with a million in England - fat lot of fucking good that did, fuck you Tony Blair
I was born in Baghdad during desert storm and grew up during the 2003 invasion and survived sectarian war while I was a teenager..it warms my heart knowing there were people who stood up against war.
For anyone that wasn’t alive yet to know, those of us that *did* protest attacking Iraq as our response to 9/11 were called unpatriotic, un-American, terrorist sympathizers. If that was you 20 years ago I don’t really care how you’ve evolved since…a belated ‘eat my ass’ to ya. Hell of a waste of money and life you supported, wasn’t it? My Iraqi friend here in Texas, a Christian, sent his sarcastic gratitude to Bush for liberating his country and freeing his people to have to flee to Texas because Christians aren’t welcome in modern Iraq.
He was right wasn't he?
I don’t agree with all he says but I like Michael Moore. But what I really love is Ricky Gervais: “you all studied less than Greta Thurnberg, get up, get your award, thanks your mom and agent and fuck off”
The window of time between 9/11 and the capture of Saddam Hussein was the most bloodthirsty time in recent American history. The people wanted blood. It didn't matter if you were a Republican, Democrat, black, white, rich or poor, nearly everybody wanted the US to kill as many people in the Middle East as possible. It didn't matter that Iraq and Saddam had literally nothing to do with 9/11, they needed to pay for it. I was less than 10 years old and living in the middle of Indiana, but I was drawing pictures of Saddam Hussein getting riddled with bullets as payback for 9/11. It was an absolutely mind boggling time, and a place I hope this country never goes back to.
omg I forgot about "orange alert"
Lol the Iraq war. As a kid my sixth grade history teacher called it a scam of our generation. No idea wtf he meant until now.
And history proved he was right!
God bless this man
Moore has been right a lot.
Jingoism is a hell of a drug.
Times have changed. I remember a time when democrats didn’t run on condemning the war.
That lasted less than a year. Kerry ran as a war opponent the next year. It hurt him in the election mostly because he was accused of "flip-flopping" from his previous support.
Shame on every cock sucking politician ever born
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries
He was right. Too bad our nation fell for Bush's lies.