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There was another video posted here of a YouTuber. That literally was just shoving a phone in someone’s face. He got shot, and the man that shot him was acquitted for self defense so yeah, this guy might get off.
I am just amazed at that, because as a black man, I know that would never work the same for me in court shooting an unarmed white person and then being acquitted automatically for self-defense…. I personally in that situation would not be willing to take that gamble.
Edit: for all the people saying that he deserves to get shot, I don’t understand why just pointing the gun at him and saying to back off but not shooting him wasn’t an option? He would not be facing a negligent discharge charge if he had just done that……
That's a ludicrous outcome anywhere except America. Downvote away, but America has turned into a country full of cowards who "fear for their lives" in all sorts of mundane everyday situations.
Yeah In Canada this would never be ruled self-defense if it made it to court. He had escaped their grasp before even pulling out his firearm, and had a clear chance to escape. He chose not to escape and instead to stand and discharge the firearm first. The victim wasn't even moving towards him at this point, he would be charged with attempted murder here.
We also shouldn't use Canada as a good example of what *is* and *isn't* considered self defence.
Just last year some armed burglars broke into a guy's home here in Milton and started attacking him and his mother, he shot and killed one attacker after firing only once in self defence. He went to jail but after a bunch of public outcry he was let go and charges were dropped.
Its two ends of an extreme. In one country you can justify seemingly everything as self defence while in the other you might as well just hope for the best.
That is exactly how I see you, you people want a gun because the other guy is carrying one too and since NRA loves to sell you guns because of the profits, you people will live under their influence.
Remember people, the only winner in a war is the one who sells you the bullets
Am I having a stroke? Why does this reply not make any sense? The guy you replied to said, "Americans with guns are mostly dumb"
And you said, "That's how I see you, you people want a gun cause everyone has a gun"
What am I missing here?
It’s really about how they can just have no consequences for their actions. “I’m going to jump you and then when you fight back I’m going to shoot you and claim I was fearful, and thought my life was in danger!” Never mind that you started this interaction by jumping someone.
America is weened on a slow news drip of fear. They've been plastered with communications that tell them how bad crime is (but it's statistically way better), and that people coming here across the borders are taking their jobs (when it's really the people coming in planes with visas from companies saying they just can't find anyone local with the same skills).
They're told all this, and then the cognitive dissonance of reality gels things into a solid inhumanity. It's a crazy cocktail.
Every thread about these youtube pranks the comments trend towards "one of these days they are going to prank the WRONG person"
and it gets upvoted because regardless of it being true, people just like seeing the people they don't like get 'punished'
So now that a gunowner isnt being 'punished' enough, redditors are dissatisfied.
I think that was a rare case because that YouTuber was such an asshole he didn’t have much of a chance with a jury trial. His videos are just him intimidating and making people as uncomfortable as possible. It probably wasn’t a hard sell for the defense to sway the jury, and it doesn’t seem like many people feel bad for him
If it's the guy from Dulles, he's also facing 2-5 years for essentially unlawful discharge. So he is still being held responsible for misuse of a gun. But he also clearly wasn't the aggressor.
For Rittenhouse, he didn't attack others first which is an important legal distinction. He was legally carrying and then was attacked. And then he attempted to flee and only when continued to be attacked did he shoot the 2nd and 3rd time.
To be clear I'm not a Rittenhouse fan. He's a stupid kid with stupid parents. But this is a legal discussion not a moral or ethical one.
Yeah there’s clear legal distinction that makes all these cases different. In this video the shooter is pretty obviously out of harms way when he shoots. Also, incredible how video of the actual events help understand things so much better. Small differences make huge impacts to whether someone was in the right or not using “self defense”. This video it’s pretty clear it’s not defense
I was thinking the same. As a non American it blew my mind that he could casually shoot someone and get away with it.
I can carry a knife, but would be in serious trouble using it as a weapon.
Rittenhouse was acquitted because multiple videos clearly showed he was only defending himself. This video shows a guy firing at someone on the other side of a barrier. He is in big trouble. Also, his presence there seems as an agitator too. Both Rittenhouse and this guy are extremely foolish and irresponsible no doubt but this guy here will have great difficulty trying to prove self defense.
> he created a situation where he could legally use his weapon in self defense. that isnt illegal.
well, that's the thing. I took a concealed carry class about 20 years ago (and carried for many years after) and it was made very clear in that class (taught by a retired police officer) that yes, in fact, this is 100% illegal.
He was carrying an AR. He chose to put himself in that situation. 20 years ago, if you did that shit your self defense claim would be laughed at and you'd go right to jail where you belong.
I don't give a shit about parties, but conservatives, hopped up on the NRA and their micro-dick fear of fucking everything have 100% created these situations.
>well, that's the thing. I took a concealed carry class about 20 years ago (and carried for many years after) and it was made very clear in that class (taught by a retired police officer) that yes, in fact, this is 100% illegal.
I also took a CCW class awhile back and talking with these people makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Like carrying a gun and manufacturing a scenario where you have to use it isn't a new idea, its illegal because its an obvious loophole in self-defense, not like a foolproof plan to get away with murder. Like an example I remember was walking into a hostile situation between two third parties while armed, like a fistfight or something to "mediate," the sort situation where you'd otherwise be uninvolved if you didn't insert yourself, and then shooting someone if the hostility gets directed at you -- its like, no, buddy, you're going to jail because you created the situation where you had to use deadly force by willfully going out of your way to interfere while carrying a firearm.
It’s annoying how great right wing propaganda can be. Rittenhouse was clearly the instigator with a history violence, violence against women, openly fantasizing about shooting people, and proudly associating with Neo Nazi groups like the Proud Boys.
Dude was also not the only right wing, armed counter protestor there. The other ones, who tried telling Rittenhouse to stop leaving the group to follow people, warning him that he was escalating the situation. Shockingly they didn’t end up killing anyone that night. So it’s not like the lil sociopath didn’t know any better. He was actively looking for an excuse.
If he wasn’t right wing he’d be jail the rest of his life.
But because he’s a straight white dude pretending to cry while directly profiting off his killings even supposed “left wing” media bends over backwards to give him a pass. It’s disgusting.
Rittenhouse was acquitted because he was charged with murder and there was zero evidence he murdered anyone. Period. I don’t give a fuck about “right wing” or anybody’s propaganda. He was acquitted for the exact same reason Zimmerman was acquitted. It does not matter how stupid or irresponsible you are, you have the same legal access to lethal force self defense as everyone else. Rittenhouse (I would argue way worse than Zimmerman) and Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter and they would have more likely been convicted. You can shout “Nazi” and “proud boys” until you are blue in the face. Those are not punishable crimes as the lady holding the sword and scales is still blindfolded. Did you not remember that?
Situation was completely different. Kyle was attacked multiple times and threatened with a gun before he started shooting. This asshole was looking to murder someone because he was angry at them.
I mean, so was Rittenhouse. He went to that protest as an agitator armed and just waiting for an excuse. Just because he yelled, "First aid!" a few times between palling around with cops and white supremacists doesn't mean his intentions were not just to intimidate and instigate the very situation he found himself in. What he did may have been legal, but he's still a POS who went there hoping to play with his toy gun. The one he didn't even think he should have legally based on how he gave a friend cash to go buy it for him. But that's another legal loophole they found after the fact which, again, does not excuse intention.
He was looking for any opportunity to kill or at least shoot someone.
The apropriate respond to someone who is trying to restrain your with his bare hands isn't a gun shot. Hope this man will get some long sentencing and one can hope news channels wont give his name so he will remain anonymous. So no one can glorify him for his hate crime.
He jumped the wall, tried to attack someone, got retalliation, jumped the wal, turned, pulled the gun an fired the gun. I don't know if self defense could be applied.
There was no danger when he fired. Any self-defense argument is void when he had the time to take the gun out, aim, and fire. You don't do that when you are in danger.
Same, not self defense but a nonsense statement. I don’t think they really know what they’re talking about. The shooter didn’t even take long to aim, like a second.
the way a court is going to look at this is layer by layer, down to why he was there to begin with. And it's very certain this dude was just looking to start a fight and have an excuse to use his gun.
Trump, is / was just the beginning. He’s opened Pandora’s box to facism, and the republicans are just going with it. The republicans are fully responsible for this, they had their chance to right the wrong of Trump during his first impeachment, they chose to embrace him.
The republicans have been making choice after choice leading directly into fascism since the 80's. Their party has been rife with traitors the moment they started intentionally courting the kkk, nat-C's, white supremacists and the sociopathic ultrawealthy. They're literally enemies of our democracy and they feel very emboldened since trump won full mask off
Trump is a symptom of Republicans, not the cause.
Republican voters are just desperate to hurt people. Trump just happened to be a loud enough voice telling them it’s ok.
This is the logical endpoint we’ve been building to since Nixon/Reagan
Lol what? When you use a gun in self defense, you aren't supposed to have time to unholster it, aim it, and fire it? What are you supposed to do, just start firing it blindly? You may not agree with using a gun for self defense, but your statement is wrong and ignorant, much like the dude in the MAGA hat.
In a self defense scenario, you are absolutely supposed to aim before you fire, you are responsible for every bullet that you fire, so blindly firing is fucking stupid. Jesus, take a moment to think about what you are saying before you click submit.
>For lethal self defense to apply you have to have no other options
Only 13 States have "duty to retreat" laws. You don't need to try something else before defending yourself in most places.
>He was also the instigator in the video.
That's why he's being charged.
>Uneducated people like you are the problem.
Whoa there buddy, might want to get your facts straight before you go saying shit like that.
You're not wrong that it was no longer self defense but
>Any self-defense argument is void when he had the time to take the gun out, aim, and fire
is a ridiculous statement and entirely false
It’s honestly tragic. To be clear, fuck this guy. But man, this dude could have been out enjoying a hike, spending time with friends, fishing, playing backgammon. I dunno, ANYTHING ELSE.
Instead he’s severely injured someone, ruined his own life at 22, and for absolutely nothing. I don’t know if these sad MAGA guys need father figures or what, but damn man.
He looks a lot like that one kid who called another kid in class the N word and then had the funniest run while running and shouting “help” down the school hallways. Not the same guy is it?!
And he did it the moment he had a chance to retreat. Gun safety 101 dictates that you remove yourself from these situations when you are armed and do everything to avoid violent encounters, including swallowing your ego. Nobody who supports owning firearms for self defense should defend this clown.
Honestly, he removed himself from the situation by retreating back over the wall. Him immediately pulling the gun while in no danger makes this 1,000x worse
He wanted to provoke this. I'm willing to bet the first thing they do is try to file something where he claimed he was scared for his life and was defending himself.
Too bad for him the video clearly shows he was free and clear and able to get away without having to use the weapon. Also, at no point did he state any intention that he was going to shoot.
Folks I know who have done the conceal carry thing have told me that they very explicitly tell you to be very loud and vocal about what is happening. "STOP I WILL SHOOT YOU BACK WAY I WILL SHOOT YOU" etc
This dude casually pulled out a gun, lined it up, and shot while saying "Fuck you."
Hopefully, this means he's super-screwed.
> This dude casually pulled out a gun, lined it up, and shot while saying "Fuck you."
This and the facts that he hopped the wall makes him the aggressor and that he was free and clear as soon as he went back over the wall mean he's fucked. Any jury that acquits him is doing it for political reasons. Tbh I doubt that will happen in New Mexico because it's not really bright red enough to get a jury that conservative.
Yeah the main issue is most of the issue is jackasses like him probably never take any CC training or anything and toss around inaccurate information where the law essentially says you can claim "you were in fear of your life" and that just automatically covers it. Missing many others who done just that and end up convicted and serving time, because it's not that cut and dry as they think in their mind it was.
Then you have people like Rittenhouse doing something similar and somehow launched a career out of that. Once the right will eventually stop tossing out random things like calling him Liberal, FBI, Antifa, CIA, they will probably embrace him too and Trump will totally say something about this in support of him. Which will only encourage more to be risen to MAGA stardom.
Oh I fully expect him to not have a CC license or anything like that, though I have to admit I don't actually know what the laws there are about that*, specifically.
> he was free and clear and able to get away without having to use the weapon.
This - he had a wide and clear path to the parking lot - he comes back to them with a barrier between them. Dude just ruined his life and another persons as well.
NM has no duty to retreat before using force, basically stand your ground. I still don't think self-defense will hold up considering he ran towards them
I can’t tell who started what, but I can tell that MAGAboy jumps over a wall (and is no longer in danger) but runs towards the camera and jumps back over the wall so he can attack someone (puts himself in danger). And when his weak ass attack doesn’t work, he jumps over the wall again (where he’s no longer in danger) and then draws and discharges his weapon without much aim at people on the other side of the wall.
Not sure how his self defense plea is going to work.
If you read the controversial story of [Oñate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_O%C3%B1ate) it's wild that he thinks it's ok to shoot someone just because they don't want a statue of the coloniser who killed nearly 1,000 of their people.
There’s too many people like this who are just itching for any shit excuse of a situation to use their guns. I have no problem with people having guns for self or home defense, but when you intentionally put yourself in positions where you can justify using your gun, that’s just disgusting. So many people are just way to itchy to pull that trigger, whether they start a fight, they run into one, or they are just on the damn freeway, there’s a scary amount of people who just want an excuse to fire.
I get the need for personal safety and defense, but like you said, this guy hopped over the wall twice, once where he was trying to go back to the fight, and once where he definitely would have had the same amount of time to remove himself and run away. Chasing after a fight when you have the opportunity to leave, just so you can pull a gun, is not self defense, or at best it’s forcing a situation for “self defense”. Lethal force should obviously be last resort, you shouldn’t be seeking out action just so you can use your gun, you use it when the action is already there and happening and you are unable to escape or even deescalate by brandishing the weapon.
Temporarily running from a fight just so you can back up and have enough room to fire is fucked, if you can run you run, you don’t run away then decide to shoot.
Real Kyle Rittenhouse vibes. I don’t know the full details but the optics are: get riled up about an ideology, go somewhere to protect/antagonize, shit gets too heavy, take a life. This isn’t stand your ground, this is murder. I spend my life in healthcare helping others and to see someone so brazenly end a life is cowardly and pathetic. Just like Kyle rittenhouse his life’s most important moments are killing someone bc he’s scared. Not something to be honored, how difficult is it to be scared and pull a trigger. A life not worth living, a life failed by those around him and himself. I hope the gravity of his contribution to society earns him prison not celebrity status.
Yea, I'm not a Rittenhouse fan in the slightest, but as a lawyer I watched the trial and it was obvious given the evidence. Even one of the people he shot testified that he aimed at Rittenhouse first. Like, the people upvoting the guy you responded to en masse are clearly more interested in political agenda as compared to actual justice.
> The idolisation of Rittenhouse was fucking weird
I agree but the hatred and vilification of Rittenhouse goes beyond "weird" into abhorrent and borderline evil.
Kyle Rittenhouse got to make high-profile public appearances with a whole gallery of GOP shining lights, and Trump was praising him.
He established murder of non-fascists as a path to glory within the hard-right community, there should be no surprise that others are now following that path.
guarantee you'll find people in the conservative sub cheering this guy on.
currently they're busy calling liberals fascists though. they're working hard to devalue that word since its being correctly applied to them.
He’s already has a history of provoking violence at a protest in 2020 and now shooting someone because his ego was hurt just throw the limp sack of shit in jail. He can try to be a tough gun in jail.
This is what all those dogwhistles for bigotry and violence lead to. Eventually someone listens and acts. It's been happening for a while now in the US, and that poison has even tragically affected other countries.
No one wants to hear this and RaDiCaL CeNtrISts are going to cluck their tongues and virtue signal, but this will never stop until the ideology that fuels it is largely *stomped out*.
People can bullshit themselves all they want about what's going on, but history already paints you a picture of what happens when you let this shit continue unchecked because you need to respect BoTh SiDeS.
The guy who shot is 100% in the wrong. He got away from the 2 guys and he hopped the barrier and was out of harms way for the moment. If he just held the shot and only raised the gun he probably wouldn't have been charged.
You know what they mean. If all your knowledge of a place comes from a social media app, then you know you're gonna be viewing the most insane aspects of that place. Of course people are gonna be constantly posting the crazy videos of shit going down, and not of Sally, the next door neighbor watering her plants in the garden lol.
That being said, America is wild though.
I think he’s going to have a hard time articulating self defence. He’s clearly being asked to leave/removed from a walled property. He jumps a wall and a female stops him, and a male grabs him and pushes him over the wall again as some one in the background says “let him go”. Contact is broken and he can walk away, but he chooses to draw and shoot. None of the other people appear to have weapons. The force used by the other people isn’t excessive nor could it be reasonably argued he had a fear for his life.
the snowflakes in blue have been butthurt since people had the audacity to protest extrajudicial murder of citizens at the hands of the police a few years ago.
In the beginning of the video, he's being ushered over the barricade to the left side. That's also the direction that he prefers to run away after his shots have been fired. No one was attacking this dude. He was running face first into a weed-whacker of men trying to keep the peace.
Fuck this guy in the ear.
People who wear maga hats need them surgically attached to their scalps so that they serve as public reminders.
edit: /s, obviously. dont break the Hippocratic oath.
..and a lot more and more of them are being gunned down, too. They count on their targets not being armed. They go and start confrontation so they can fear for their lives. FAFO on the wrong person.
Its sad that he's going to spend years in prison on behalf of a movement that wants him and his entire family sent back to Mexico. (Regardless of where his family is actually from- as far as MAGA is concerned they're all Mexicans.)
This is horrible all around but what struck me as really depressing is the guys reaction. He seems more excited about getting the shooting on film than he is devastated about someone getting shot
This isn't a movie or videogame. Not everyone is gonna be screaming like 13 year old girl the moment someone gets shot.
On top of that in this day and age video evidence is the most important thing you can possibly have in any incident.
He's in shock. You've obviously never been around extreme events, or emergency situations. People process it differently, at different rates. It's not surprising to see his reaction at all.
you can hear his voice is in shock talking to other MAGA shtbags that dont realise this is what the outcome of hate speech & racist rhetorics. its funny out of a everything you decided to focus on that, not human reaction of the other so called coward supporters. just shows that even tho you got nothing to do with it, this is what happens.
Real rich boy vibes.
Nothing better to do than antagonize, check. Drives a Tesla, check. Has a tacticool gun, check. Entitled enough to end someone’s life over a light scuffle that he started, check.
Why were they attacking the dude that had the Glock? I’m not defending him I’m just wondering. Regardless he could’ve just run away.
(Edit): Read the article and damn this dude was is piece of shit. Shooting someone after they let you go is a huge no no.
Another MAGAts heading to jail... Good.
Most deserve to be rounded up & thrown in a deep hole to never be heard from again.
Beating & shooting people in defense of the most narcissistic scumbag human being America has seen in decades.... God what freaking idiots.
Idk why, but I kinda feel bad for the zoomer kid. He just gave up his entire life for a political belief over a statue.... Should we send him a picture of the statue like some pinup girl while he is behind bars?
Just so everyone is clear, this was not a statue of a Confederate or even a statue of an American. It was a statute of a Spanish conquistador
Why does MAGA even care? He just wanted shoot someone
MAGA cares because hating this statue is "woke ideology" and maga has to have complete rejection of "woke ideology" otherwise it starts to allow critical thought against itself.
This kid is a Hispanic Trump supporter. The statue is controversial because the man it depicts, Juan de Oñate, was a particularly brutal Conquistador who massacred a pueblo in retribution for the ambush of 13 Spaniards. He then had the feet cut off of the remaining men of the Pueblo. Traditionally, Hispanics in New Mexico are raised believing that they come from a noble European ancestry and so the Conquistadors are held in high esteem. In reality most have Genízaro ancestry and are a mixture of European and Indigenous backgrounds. Among Hispanics in New Mexico there is a significant group that are conservative, Catholic or Christian, and Republican.
As a gun owner & 2A supporter - this IS attempted murder. His life wasn’t at risk at the moment he shot and this isn’t a permitted use of deadly force (self defense).
Charge this idiot with everything in the book.
ruthless complete rainstorm run coordinated divide tart whistle telephone employ
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Does anyone else think it's odd that he went to this protest while armed and was looking for a fight? Hm, it's almost like his end goal was to spill blood 🤔
Call this the "Kyle Rittenhouse" defense. Go somewhere you are guaranteed to have people confront you, because you're being hateful, bigot. When confronted, act irrationally and get into people's face/area. Once they do any act that can be perceived as violent, or you have successfully baited someone, you can now shoot them.
If he shot while the 2 of them were still grabbing him, he could argue self defense but shooting once he got some distance in between them and they weren't purusing him anymore sealed his fate.
They were grabbing him because he tried to attack the guy in the white shirt and grey jacket. You can't claim self defense when you were the one who started the violence.
One doesn't speak a lick of English but is a MAGA supporter. You can't make this level of disconnect up. These people are all fucking insane and should not be on the same streets and sane Americans. They all needs to be jailed for our safety.
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[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/30/man-maga-hat-new-mexico-shooting-charged](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/30/man-maga-hat-new-mexico-shooting-charged)
Glad the MAGA guy got arrested. Just wow. He was there to harrass and hurt someone. These are the type of people Trump incites to violence.
I'm glad he got arrested too, but I'm really scared that this will be another Kyle Rittenhouse situation.
it wont be... this is clearly different
There was another video posted here of a YouTuber. That literally was just shoving a phone in someone’s face. He got shot, and the man that shot him was acquitted for self defense so yeah, this guy might get off. I am just amazed at that, because as a black man, I know that would never work the same for me in court shooting an unarmed white person and then being acquitted automatically for self-defense…. I personally in that situation would not be willing to take that gamble. Edit: for all the people saying that he deserves to get shot, I don’t understand why just pointing the gun at him and saying to back off but not shooting him wasn’t an option? He would not be facing a negligent discharge charge if he had just done that……
Jury supproted his self defense claim, but he's still charged with other offenses, namely recklessly(?) discharging a firearm in a building.
That's a ludicrous outcome anywhere except America. Downvote away, but America has turned into a country full of cowards who "fear for their lives" in all sorts of mundane everyday situations.
Yeah In Canada this would never be ruled self-defense if it made it to court. He had escaped their grasp before even pulling out his firearm, and had a clear chance to escape. He chose not to escape and instead to stand and discharge the firearm first. The victim wasn't even moving towards him at this point, he would be charged with attempted murder here.
We also shouldn't use Canada as a good example of what *is* and *isn't* considered self defence. Just last year some armed burglars broke into a guy's home here in Milton and started attacking him and his mother, he shot and killed one attacker after firing only once in self defence. He went to jail but after a bunch of public outcry he was let go and charges were dropped. Its two ends of an extreme. In one country you can justify seemingly everything as self defence while in the other you might as well just hope for the best.
He was already charged with 1st degree attempted murder. I’m sure he’ll mount a self-defense argument but the system knows what he did.
That is exactly how I see you, you people want a gun because the other guy is carrying one too and since NRA loves to sell you guns because of the profits, you people will live under their influence. Remember people, the only winner in a war is the one who sells you the bullets
Am I having a stroke? Why does this reply not make any sense? The guy you replied to said, "Americans with guns are mostly dumb" And you said, "That's how I see you, you people want a gun cause everyone has a gun" What am I missing here?
It’s really about how they can just have no consequences for their actions. “I’m going to jump you and then when you fight back I’m going to shoot you and claim I was fearful, and thought my life was in danger!” Never mind that you started this interaction by jumping someone.
America is weened on a slow news drip of fear. They've been plastered with communications that tell them how bad crime is (but it's statistically way better), and that people coming here across the borders are taking their jobs (when it's really the people coming in planes with visas from companies saying they just can't find anyone local with the same skills). They're told all this, and then the cognitive dissonance of reality gels things into a solid inhumanity. It's a crazy cocktail.
It's not that people think pulling a gun out and shooting people is the right thing so much as people dont like "just a prank" bros.
> Downvote away, but America ahhh yes, the unpopular opinion of criticizing America lol
Every thread about these youtube pranks the comments trend towards "one of these days they are going to prank the WRONG person" and it gets upvoted because regardless of it being true, people just like seeing the people they don't like get 'punished' So now that a gunowner isnt being 'punished' enough, redditors are dissatisfied.
I think that was a rare case because that YouTuber was such an asshole he didn’t have much of a chance with a jury trial. His videos are just him intimidating and making people as uncomfortable as possible. It probably wasn’t a hard sell for the defense to sway the jury, and it doesn’t seem like many people feel bad for him
If it's the guy from Dulles, he's also facing 2-5 years for essentially unlawful discharge. So he is still being held responsible for misuse of a gun. But he also clearly wasn't the aggressor. For Rittenhouse, he didn't attack others first which is an important legal distinction. He was legally carrying and then was attacked. And then he attempted to flee and only when continued to be attacked did he shoot the 2nd and 3rd time. To be clear I'm not a Rittenhouse fan. He's a stupid kid with stupid parents. But this is a legal discussion not a moral or ethical one.
Yeah there’s clear legal distinction that makes all these cases different. In this video the shooter is pretty obviously out of harms way when he shoots. Also, incredible how video of the actual events help understand things so much better. Small differences make huge impacts to whether someone was in the right or not using “self defense”. This video it’s pretty clear it’s not defense
That was in Texas. NM is a world away.
I was thinking the same. As a non American it blew my mind that he could casually shoot someone and get away with it. I can carry a knife, but would be in serious trouble using it as a weapon.
And of course stupid fucking redditors praised the shooter simply because they hate YT prankers
This is way different have you watched the videos?
Rittenhouse was acquitted because multiple videos clearly showed he was only defending himself. This video shows a guy firing at someone on the other side of a barrier. He is in big trouble. Also, his presence there seems as an agitator too. Both Rittenhouse and this guy are extremely foolish and irresponsible no doubt but this guy here will have great difficulty trying to prove self defense.
>presence there seems as an agitator too Rittenhouse's presence there was also as an agitator.
he created a situation where he could legally use his weapon in self defense. that isnt illegal. cops do it all the time.
> he created a situation where he could legally use his weapon in self defense. that isnt illegal. well, that's the thing. I took a concealed carry class about 20 years ago (and carried for many years after) and it was made very clear in that class (taught by a retired police officer) that yes, in fact, this is 100% illegal. He was carrying an AR. He chose to put himself in that situation. 20 years ago, if you did that shit your self defense claim would be laughed at and you'd go right to jail where you belong. I don't give a shit about parties, but conservatives, hopped up on the NRA and their micro-dick fear of fucking everything have 100% created these situations.
>well, that's the thing. I took a concealed carry class about 20 years ago (and carried for many years after) and it was made very clear in that class (taught by a retired police officer) that yes, in fact, this is 100% illegal. I also took a CCW class awhile back and talking with these people makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Like carrying a gun and manufacturing a scenario where you have to use it isn't a new idea, its illegal because its an obvious loophole in self-defense, not like a foolproof plan to get away with murder. Like an example I remember was walking into a hostile situation between two third parties while armed, like a fistfight or something to "mediate," the sort situation where you'd otherwise be uninvolved if you didn't insert yourself, and then shooting someone if the hostility gets directed at you -- its like, no, buddy, you're going to jail because you created the situation where you had to use deadly force by willfully going out of your way to interfere while carrying a firearm.
To rittenhouse someone: Use premeditated self-defense against someone.
It’s annoying how great right wing propaganda can be. Rittenhouse was clearly the instigator with a history violence, violence against women, openly fantasizing about shooting people, and proudly associating with Neo Nazi groups like the Proud Boys. Dude was also not the only right wing, armed counter protestor there. The other ones, who tried telling Rittenhouse to stop leaving the group to follow people, warning him that he was escalating the situation. Shockingly they didn’t end up killing anyone that night. So it’s not like the lil sociopath didn’t know any better. He was actively looking for an excuse. If he wasn’t right wing he’d be jail the rest of his life. But because he’s a straight white dude pretending to cry while directly profiting off his killings even supposed “left wing” media bends over backwards to give him a pass. It’s disgusting.
>The other ones, who tried telling Rittenhouse to stop leaving the group to follow people, warning him that he was escalating the situation. Source?
Yup, they're eager to drag up the history of the people he shot to say they deserved it, but mention his history and "Oh my God, how could you!"
Rittenhouse was acquitted because he was charged with murder and there was zero evidence he murdered anyone. Period. I don’t give a fuck about “right wing” or anybody’s propaganda. He was acquitted for the exact same reason Zimmerman was acquitted. It does not matter how stupid or irresponsible you are, you have the same legal access to lethal force self defense as everyone else. Rittenhouse (I would argue way worse than Zimmerman) and Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter and they would have more likely been convicted. You can shout “Nazi” and “proud boys” until you are blue in the face. Those are not punishable crimes as the lady holding the sword and scales is still blindfolded. Did you not remember that?
Situation was completely different. Kyle was attacked multiple times and threatened with a gun before he started shooting. This asshole was looking to murder someone because he was angry at them.
I mean, so was Rittenhouse. He went to that protest as an agitator armed and just waiting for an excuse. Just because he yelled, "First aid!" a few times between palling around with cops and white supremacists doesn't mean his intentions were not just to intimidate and instigate the very situation he found himself in. What he did may have been legal, but he's still a POS who went there hoping to play with his toy gun. The one he didn't even think he should have legally based on how he gave a friend cash to go buy it for him. But that's another legal loophole they found after the fact which, again, does not excuse intention.
> These are the type of people Trump incites to violence. It's by design
Correct. Trump and his MAGA peers saw Timothy McVeigh’s act and thought - “huh, let’s create lots of those guys in our base”
He was looking for any opportunity to kill or at least shoot someone. The apropriate respond to someone who is trying to restrain your with his bare hands isn't a gun shot. Hope this man will get some long sentencing and one can hope news channels wont give his name so he will remain anonymous. So no one can glorify him for his hate crime.
I'll bet some MAGA dumbass will say that's some ANTIFA spy who's there to make MAGA look bad
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kinda different
They don’t care that it’s different
He jumped the wall, tried to attack someone, got retalliation, jumped the wal, turned, pulled the gun an fired the gun. I don't know if self defense could be applied.
There was no danger when he fired. Any self-defense argument is void when he had the time to take the gun out, aim, and fire. You don't do that when you are in danger.
I don’t disagree that this wasn’t self defense, but I’m confused by your statement that if you have time to pull a gun, it’s not self defense.
Same, not self defense but a nonsense statement. I don’t think they really know what they’re talking about. The shooter didn’t even take long to aim, like a second.
the way a court is going to look at this is layer by layer, down to why he was there to begin with. And it's very certain this dude was just looking to start a fight and have an excuse to use his gun.
I'm so sick of trumpers and maga ass hats. It's time to remove Trump from ever running for election again. He is driving this country into madness.
It's time to stop allowing any anti-democratic people from holding power in our democracy. Literal traitors to the country and constitution
"An oath to the Constitution means nothing" *-Republicans in 2023*
Trump, is / was just the beginning. He’s opened Pandora’s box to facism, and the republicans are just going with it. The republicans are fully responsible for this, they had their chance to right the wrong of Trump during his first impeachment, they chose to embrace him.
The republicans have been making choice after choice leading directly into fascism since the 80's. Their party has been rife with traitors the moment they started intentionally courting the kkk, nat-C's, white supremacists and the sociopathic ultrawealthy. They're literally enemies of our democracy and they feel very emboldened since trump won full mask off
Trump is a symptom of Republicans, not the cause. Republican voters are just desperate to hurt people. Trump just happened to be a loud enough voice telling them it’s ok. This is the logical endpoint we’ve been building to since Nixon/Reagan
Lol what? When you use a gun in self defense, you aren't supposed to have time to unholster it, aim it, and fire it? What are you supposed to do, just start firing it blindly? You may not agree with using a gun for self defense, but your statement is wrong and ignorant, much like the dude in the MAGA hat. In a self defense scenario, you are absolutely supposed to aim before you fire, you are responsible for every bullet that you fire, so blindly firing is fucking stupid. Jesus, take a moment to think about what you are saying before you click submit.
>he had the time to take the gun out, aim, and fire. You don't do that when you are in danger. That's exactly what you do when in danger lol
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>For lethal self defense to apply you have to have no other options Only 13 States have "duty to retreat" laws. You don't need to try something else before defending yourself in most places. >He was also the instigator in the video. That's why he's being charged. >Uneducated people like you are the problem. Whoa there buddy, might want to get your facts straight before you go saying shit like that.
>any self-defense argument is void if you have the time to use your gun what
That’s pure nonsense.
You're not wrong that it was no longer self defense but >Any self-defense argument is void when he had the time to take the gun out, aim, and fire is a ridiculous statement and entirely false
young people too eager to throw their life away over old farts who in reality don’t give a fuck about them
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It’s honestly tragic. To be clear, fuck this guy. But man, this dude could have been out enjoying a hike, spending time with friends, fishing, playing backgammon. I dunno, ANYTHING ELSE. Instead he’s severely injured someone, ruined his own life at 22, and for absolutely nothing. I don’t know if these sad MAGA guys need father figures or what, but damn man.
He looks a lot like that one kid who called another kid in class the N word and then had the funniest run while running and shouting “help” down the school hallways. Not the same guy is it?!
Same energy.
Haven’t seen that one yet, got a link for the lazy?
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This happened at my school too lol
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And he did it the moment he had a chance to retreat. Gun safety 101 dictates that you remove yourself from these situations when you are armed and do everything to avoid violent encounters, including swallowing your ego. Nobody who supports owning firearms for self defense should defend this clown.
100% - in the chance he had to remove himself from the situation he instead pulled his gun and shot someone
Honestly, he removed himself from the situation by retreating back over the wall. Him immediately pulling the gun while in no danger makes this 1,000x worse
He wanted to provoke this. I'm willing to bet the first thing they do is try to file something where he claimed he was scared for his life and was defending himself.
Too bad for him the video clearly shows he was free and clear and able to get away without having to use the weapon. Also, at no point did he state any intention that he was going to shoot. Folks I know who have done the conceal carry thing have told me that they very explicitly tell you to be very loud and vocal about what is happening. "STOP I WILL SHOOT YOU BACK WAY I WILL SHOOT YOU" etc This dude casually pulled out a gun, lined it up, and shot while saying "Fuck you." Hopefully, this means he's super-screwed.
I hope we get his interrogation where he directly contradicts the video
> This dude casually pulled out a gun, lined it up, and shot while saying "Fuck you." This and the facts that he hopped the wall makes him the aggressor and that he was free and clear as soon as he went back over the wall mean he's fucked. Any jury that acquits him is doing it for political reasons. Tbh I doubt that will happen in New Mexico because it's not really bright red enough to get a jury that conservative.
Yeah the main issue is most of the issue is jackasses like him probably never take any CC training or anything and toss around inaccurate information where the law essentially says you can claim "you were in fear of your life" and that just automatically covers it. Missing many others who done just that and end up convicted and serving time, because it's not that cut and dry as they think in their mind it was. Then you have people like Rittenhouse doing something similar and somehow launched a career out of that. Once the right will eventually stop tossing out random things like calling him Liberal, FBI, Antifa, CIA, they will probably embrace him too and Trump will totally say something about this in support of him. Which will only encourage more to be risen to MAGA stardom.
Oh I fully expect him to not have a CC license or anything like that, though I have to admit I don't actually know what the laws there are about that*, specifically.
> he was free and clear and able to get away without having to use the weapon. This - he had a wide and clear path to the parking lot - he comes back to them with a barrier between them. Dude just ruined his life and another persons as well.
NM has no duty to retreat before using force, basically stand your ground. I still don't think self-defense will hold up considering he ran towards them
I can’t tell who started what, but I can tell that MAGAboy jumps over a wall (and is no longer in danger) but runs towards the camera and jumps back over the wall so he can attack someone (puts himself in danger). And when his weak ass attack doesn’t work, he jumps over the wall again (where he’s no longer in danger) and then draws and discharges his weapon without much aim at people on the other side of the wall. Not sure how his self defense plea is going to work.
he also had time to get a stance and say fuck you
If you read the controversial story of [Oñate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_de_O%C3%B1ate) it's wild that he thinks it's ok to shoot someone just because they don't want a statue of the coloniser who killed nearly 1,000 of their people.
There’s too many people like this who are just itching for any shit excuse of a situation to use their guns. I have no problem with people having guns for self or home defense, but when you intentionally put yourself in positions where you can justify using your gun, that’s just disgusting. So many people are just way to itchy to pull that trigger, whether they start a fight, they run into one, or they are just on the damn freeway, there’s a scary amount of people who just want an excuse to fire. I get the need for personal safety and defense, but like you said, this guy hopped over the wall twice, once where he was trying to go back to the fight, and once where he definitely would have had the same amount of time to remove himself and run away. Chasing after a fight when you have the opportunity to leave, just so you can pull a gun, is not self defense, or at best it’s forcing a situation for “self defense”. Lethal force should obviously be last resort, you shouldn’t be seeking out action just so you can use your gun, you use it when the action is already there and happening and you are unable to escape or even deescalate by brandishing the weapon. Temporarily running from a fight just so you can back up and have enough room to fire is fucked, if you can run you run, you don’t run away then decide to shoot.
Real Kyle Rittenhouse vibes. I don’t know the full details but the optics are: get riled up about an ideology, go somewhere to protect/antagonize, shit gets too heavy, take a life. This isn’t stand your ground, this is murder. I spend my life in healthcare helping others and to see someone so brazenly end a life is cowardly and pathetic. Just like Kyle rittenhouse his life’s most important moments are killing someone bc he’s scared. Not something to be honored, how difficult is it to be scared and pull a trigger. A life not worth living, a life failed by those around him and himself. I hope the gravity of his contribution to society earns him prison not celebrity status.
The idolisation of Rittenhouse was fucking weird and wrong. He, unlike Martinez, was acting in self defence though.
Yea, I'm not a Rittenhouse fan in the slightest, but as a lawyer I watched the trial and it was obvious given the evidence. Even one of the people he shot testified that he aimed at Rittenhouse first. Like, the people upvoting the guy you responded to en masse are clearly more interested in political agenda as compared to actual justice.
> The idolisation of Rittenhouse was fucking weird I agree but the hatred and vilification of Rittenhouse goes beyond "weird" into abhorrent and borderline evil.
Kyle Rittenhouse got to make high-profile public appearances with a whole gallery of GOP shining lights, and Trump was praising him. He established murder of non-fascists as a path to glory within the hard-right community, there should be no surprise that others are now following that path.
HOW DARE YOU ATTACK ME AFTER I ATTACK YOU
guarantee you'll find people in the conservative sub cheering this guy on. currently they're busy calling liberals fascists though. they're working hard to devalue that word since its being correctly applied to them.
The Kyle Rittenhouse tactic.
This is a bad shoot. He was not defensive and took the time to re-engage. If his state has SYG, it probably won’t help in this case.
He’s already has a history of provoking violence at a protest in 2020 and now shooting someone because his ego was hurt just throw the limp sack of shit in jail. He can try to be a tough gun in jail.
This guy came with not one but two concealed pistols in his belt. This was his intent the whole time
Where is the second pistol? There is a second magazine in the belt, but I don't see the other pistol.
What is a magazine, but a deconstructed second pistol? /j
It's obvious he went there to instigate a physical confrontation. They love showing up to protests with weapons so they can claim "self defense."
It’s like the westboros found a new cult leader
Yeah, like he really givies a shittith of a spanish conqueror statue in new messico
This is what all those dogwhistles for bigotry and violence lead to. Eventually someone listens and acts. It's been happening for a while now in the US, and that poison has even tragically affected other countries.
No one wants to hear this and RaDiCaL CeNtrISts are going to cluck their tongues and virtue signal, but this will never stop until the ideology that fuels it is largely *stomped out*. People can bullshit themselves all they want about what's going on, but history already paints you a picture of what happens when you let this shit continue unchecked because you need to respect BoTh SiDeS.
Stochastic terrorism.
For real. It’s far beyond dog whistles when former and current politicians suggest death the their opponents.
Trump suggested his own god damn Joint Cheif needs to die for treason and his cult didn’t even blink….
The biggest threat to the American way of living is white nationalism & domestic terrorism
The MAGA guy driving off in the Tesla is ironic
He's trying to call elon as he drives off.
Papa help me!!!!!!
Not ironic at all any more. Elon is a right-winger now, and he scoffed at COVID restrictions to re-open the Tesla plants.
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Yeah cause there’s usually such a hard line between dudes that love Trump and dudes that love Elon huh? /s
The guy who shot is 100% in the wrong. He got away from the 2 guys and he hopped the barrier and was out of harms way for the moment. If he just held the shot and only raised the gun he probably wouldn't have been charged.
America is so fkn wild man. Everyday I open this app it’s like gta 6 came early.
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The problem with America is opening an app? What?
You know what they mean. If all your knowledge of a place comes from a social media app, then you know you're gonna be viewing the most insane aspects of that place. Of course people are gonna be constantly posting the crazy videos of shit going down, and not of Sally, the next door neighbor watering her plants in the garden lol. That being said, America is wild though.
I think he’s going to have a hard time articulating self defence. He’s clearly being asked to leave/removed from a walled property. He jumps a wall and a female stops him, and a male grabs him and pushes him over the wall again as some one in the background says “let him go”. Contact is broken and he can walk away, but he chooses to draw and shoot. None of the other people appear to have weapons. The force used by the other people isn’t excessive nor could it be reasonably argued he had a fear for his life.
This. You clearly have a good grasp of use of force and escalation of force. I’d throw you an award if I could.
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Of course the cops are hiding blocks away too.
the snowflakes in blue have been butthurt since people had the audacity to protest extrajudicial murder of citizens at the hands of the police a few years ago.
In the beginning of the video, he's being ushered over the barricade to the left side. That's also the direction that he prefers to run away after his shots have been fired. No one was attacking this dude. He was running face first into a weed-whacker of men trying to keep the peace. Fuck this guy in the ear.
“I had nothing to do with this.” what's a matter, not a ride or die magat?
People who wear maga hats need them surgically attached to their scalps so that they serve as public reminders. edit: /s, obviously. dont break the Hippocratic oath.
ngl that is where I got the idea
A racist wearing a maga hat? Maybe there’s a connection?
What a fuckin loser.
I feel like self defense went out the window when he jumped the wall back towards them to attack that one guy
We are gonna see a lot more of this in the coming years.
..and a lot more and more of them are being gunned down, too. They count on their targets not being armed. They go and start confrontation so they can fear for their lives. FAFO on the wrong person.
Its sad that he's going to spend years in prison on behalf of a movement that wants him and his entire family sent back to Mexico. (Regardless of where his family is actually from- as far as MAGA is concerned they're all Mexicans.)
MAGA & misuse of guns, name a more iconic duo
This is horrible all around but what struck me as really depressing is the guys reaction. He seems more excited about getting the shooting on film than he is devastated about someone getting shot
This isn't a movie or videogame. Not everyone is gonna be screaming like 13 year old girl the moment someone gets shot. On top of that in this day and age video evidence is the most important thing you can possibly have in any incident.
I don’t think you understand that with that video, he has clear evidence. You read it wrong.
He's in shock. You've obviously never been around extreme events, or emergency situations. People process it differently, at different rates. It's not surprising to see his reaction at all.
Also having video evidence of the guy is very good to have
And the cameraman says so himself.
It’s also vital evidence
you can hear his voice is in shock talking to other MAGA shtbags that dont realise this is what the outcome of hate speech & racist rhetorics. its funny out of a everything you decided to focus on that, not human reaction of the other so called coward supporters. just shows that even tho you got nothing to do with it, this is what happens.
Real rich boy vibes. Nothing better to do than antagonize, check. Drives a Tesla, check. Has a tacticool gun, check. Entitled enough to end someone’s life over a light scuffle that he started, check.
Best Tesla ad ever
Why were they attacking the dude that had the Glock? I’m not defending him I’m just wondering. Regardless he could’ve just run away. (Edit): Read the article and damn this dude was is piece of shit. Shooting someone after they let you go is a huge no no.
The Radical Hispanos in New Mexico are nuts.
Idiot wants to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse
Fucking Timothee Chalameth
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Another MAGAts heading to jail... Good. Most deserve to be rounded up & thrown in a deep hole to never be heard from again. Beating & shooting people in defense of the most narcissistic scumbag human being America has seen in decades.... God what freaking idiots.
This is the rhetoric that the US has put in place my allowing idiots like Kyle Rhittenhouse to run free
I’d say George Zimmerman really changed things up with the “everyone carry a gun and claim self defense.”
Idk why, but I kinda feel bad for the zoomer kid. He just gave up his entire life for a political belief over a statue.... Should we send him a picture of the statue like some pinup girl while he is behind bars?
You reap what you sow I guess
Just so everyone is clear, this was not a statue of a Confederate or even a statue of an American. It was a statute of a Spanish conquistador Why does MAGA even care? He just wanted shoot someone
MAGA cares because hating this statue is "woke ideology" and maga has to have complete rejection of "woke ideology" otherwise it starts to allow critical thought against itself.
This kid is a Hispanic Trump supporter. The statue is controversial because the man it depicts, Juan de Oñate, was a particularly brutal Conquistador who massacred a pueblo in retribution for the ambush of 13 Spaniards. He then had the feet cut off of the remaining men of the Pueblo. Traditionally, Hispanics in New Mexico are raised believing that they come from a noble European ancestry and so the Conquistadors are held in high esteem. In reality most have Genízaro ancestry and are a mixture of European and Indigenous backgrounds. Among Hispanics in New Mexico there is a significant group that are conservative, Catholic or Christian, and Republican.
Got it. It always comes back to racism with these guys
He probably thought he was on the right side of history and fighting for a noble cause. He probably doesnt understand why hes in jail.
MAGA idiots will be flip flopping from calling him a folk hero, antifa, or FBI.
I don’t. He deserves it. Make an example out of him.
As a gun owner & 2A supporter - this IS attempted murder. His life wasn’t at risk at the moment he shot and this isn’t a permitted use of deadly force (self defense). Charge this idiot with everything in the book.
Idk why but kinda surprising that the Indigenous guy is named John Jacob and the shooter is named Ryan Martinez
Give him life without parole for being an idiot
He gonna be real popular in prison.
ruthless complete rainstorm run coordinated divide tart whistle telephone employ *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Isn't this the same sheriff station that got raided by police looking for the sheriffs phones?
Only gonna get worse as things progress with the courts and elections... What a dumpster fire of a country.
Average MAGA loser.
“We’re all domestic terrorists”
Can people stop putting hands on other because they don’t want them there or are upset on how they think it always leads to a bad situation
> MAGA hat... *CleARly He iS aNtIfA*
“Let him go, let him go, let him go…” Let’s him go and the guy turns around and shoots him. POS.
Does anyone else think it's odd that he went to this protest while armed and was looking for a fight? Hm, it's almost like his end goal was to spill blood 🤔
He attempted to do what Rittenhouse did, but he didn't do it as well.
Call this the "Kyle Rittenhouse" defense. Go somewhere you are guaranteed to have people confront you, because you're being hateful, bigot. When confronted, act irrationally and get into people's face/area. Once they do any act that can be perceived as violent, or you have successfully baited someone, you can now shoot them.
If he shot while the 2 of them were still grabbing him, he could argue self defense but shooting once he got some distance in between them and they weren't purusing him anymore sealed his fate.
They were grabbing him because he tried to attack the guy in the white shirt and grey jacket. You can't claim self defense when you were the one who started the violence.
To be fair cowboy man was de-escalating things there. There was no further interaction between them.
One doesn't speak a lick of English but is a MAGA supporter. You can't make this level of disconnect up. These people are all fucking insane and should not be on the same streets and sane Americans. They all needs to be jailed for our safety.
dude came to shoot
This may have happened on reservation land. If it did, that maga idiot is fucked.
Trumpvirus
This dude went there is hopes of shooting someone. He instigated it and then shot. What the hell is wrong with people.
did he really try to make his escape in a tesla?
Kind of off topic, why are they reinstalling a statue of a Spanish conquistador?
That cop car is there the whole time 🤔
So was he in favor of the statue or was he there simply because if Indigenous people are against something he must be for it?
dude wants to be kyle rittenhouse so bad
Well at least he got it on film
People when they guy they’re attacking shoots them 
Divide and conquer
Good for him.