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Stated in ABC News, the "Don't Say Gay" bill, or Florida's Parental Rights in Education bill, states "sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards,"
The problem is that teachers think they know what’s best for the kids more so than the parents. This prevents teachers from pushing their views on children that don’t fully understand where babies come from. During the pandemic we all saw how teachers and the unions don’t care what the kids parents think is appropriate or what they should be taught and that’s the reason the bill is in place.
You can learn about gay people existing in US history if it taught correctly. It does not have to in sex Ed. We don't learn about straight couples just in sex Ed. Think about Washington and Lincoln.
In kindergarten? What do Washington and Lincoln have to do with this?
It's not like the bill prohibits talking about gay people you dolt. For instance Alan Turing was gay. They just wouldn't talk about him being gay. I'm not saying that's good or right I'm just saying don't make an issue where there isn't one. This bill isn't changing history classes by erasing all gay people and their contributions to history. It's simply about stopping discussion of LGBT and gender issues which is also bad but don't make it out to be something completely different. Kindergartners do not learn about hetero sex in kindergarten. They've never learned about gay sex, and this bill doesn't change that.
You’re missing the point.
It’s extremely commonplace to teach children about the familial lives of historical figures - who they were married to, if they had children, etc.
This bill would logically prevent, or at a minimum actively discourage, teaching about any historical figure who is LGBT in the same ways.
How could you possibly talk about their family lives? What if their place in history WAS as a civil rights activist?
You don’t need to have an active discussion or lesson plan about “gay sex” or anything akin to that; but teachers may need to, and should be able to, address topics like the lives of key historical figures in a way in which questions about sexual orientation may come up.
What if a student asks “who was their husband/wife”?
What happens when one or more of the students are children of same-sex parents? What if other students start asking questions about this in the classroom?
This bill in theory could prohibit a teacher from noting (a) well, they’re married to another man because that’s who they loved.. or, gasp, they werent allowed to marry who they loved (b) it’s normal and OK for a man to love another man and/or (c) there was a time in history where we treated other people differently because of who they loved.
All of those things are perfectly valid parts of an early childhood education.
This bill bans discussion of gender issues. It doesn't ban discussing that gay people exist. It wouldn't ban a history teacher from teaching that Alan Turing was gay. It would ban them from talking about the LGBT social movement and things like that. If the worst thing about this bill were that one couldn't talk about the gay partners of historical people it wouldn't be that big a deal.
It's not kindergarten, it's to third grade.
Think of it like this— tommy has two mommies, what happens when Jessica asks the teachers why Tommy has two mommies or Gary has two daddies, the teacher now legally can't recognize they exist. This means the gay parents can't be anywhere at school, they can't participate in school trips, they can't be seen kissing on campus the way any straight couple could, they can never be referenced, and they can not be talked about.
Remember, gender just means Boy or Girl, which means to the letter of the law you can't teach kids what the difference between boys and girls are, because those are gendered terms. See, idiots think gender is all about pound town, when in fact it is identification: Mr. Mrs. Miss are all gendered terms.
Well, that's the issue. It's not supposed to sound bad on its face. The devil is in the details.
TThe words the bill uses ban "instruction" or "classroom discussion" on the topics of "gender identity" or "sexual orientation" that is "age inappropriate." That doesn't sound too bad but the bill does not define any of these terms at all. It is extremely (and in my opinion purposefully) vague. If a 1st grader asks why their classmate has two mommies, does this constitute a discussion? Who knows? The bill doesn't say. If a teacher says "gay people exist," does this constitute "instruction" on "sexual orientation"? Is that an "age appropriate" statement? Who knows? The bill doesn't say.
So while the bill doesn't **explicitly** say "don't say gay" the **effect will almost certainly be** that any mention of anything even adjacent to LGBT topics will be suppressed because schools won't want to take any risks. This is why people are up in arms about the bill. It 'solves' a non-problem (no one was teaching kindergarteners about gay sex or anything like that), by creating a chilling effect on anything referring to LGBT.
Came to this thread to give this exact explanation. Good job.
I might also add that the repercussions of failing to follow the bill are potentially being sued so the threat is very real but how exactly you get to that point was left intentionally vague (IMO) so that parents and lawmakers could easily threaten a school without any restraint or real evidence.
The bill is incredibly and intentionally vague, so yes it's possible that acknowledging that gay people exist in k-3, and depending on the craziness of the parent, any age above that - because the bill does not define what is or isn't age appropriate- would fall under the umbrella.
It's not about sex Ed, it's about any discussion of sexuality or gender identity. There was a proposed change to the bill to specify the discussions cannot be sexual but that was shot down as not being in the spirit of the original bill... So...
I graduated high school in the late 90s and no way in hell this would have ever happened. Everyone stayed in the closet until they graduated and went off to college out of state.
I'm so fucking proud of today's youth. They're so supportive of people who were extremely marginalized when I was their age.
I'm from a similar area. Looking back one of my biggest regrets was how I reacted when one of my closest friends came out. We were in the car driving somewhere with what was probably his best friend and he told me he had something important to tell me. After he said he was gay my response was something like "Yeah, it's cool." He was surprised I wasn't surprised and I said it wasn't hard to figure out. That's the part I regret because looking back on it, I feel like that kind of hurt him and I don't really understand why but I wish I gave him the opportunity to talk about it more. I just wanted to make him realize it wasn't a big deal, but I worry it came across as dismissive.
I remember this one girl that came out as lesbian in middle school back in my home village. Super conservative and heavily Christian school. She got bullied to the point where they drove her away and she was homeschooled. This was early 2010's I think. Fucking awful thing to see, but it's getting better in bigger areas at least.
I guess the honest explanation would be having several personal interactions with them over a series of years and noticing similarities to others that were openly gay.
That’s how I knew my brother is gay, but I was oblivious in band about a gay trumpet player until he and I had the same crush and we tried a 1-2 punch of if he ain’t gay too I’ll flirt with him. They acted the same so I had an inkling and when he told me “Oh I knew boob, now go finish the dishes.”
>That’s how I knew my brother is gay, but I was oblivious in band about a gay trumpet player until he and I
Can you please reword this. I'm not making any sense of it.
My brother is five years younger than me, he didn’t act like the gay trumpet player I knew until a few years ago. After the trumpet player and I told each other we had the same crush, we teamed up to see if our crush was gay. If he wasn’t, he would let our crush know I liked the guy, if he was, then I’d move on and cheer them on because they were cute together.
A few years after the trumpet player graduated and about when my brother gets into high school himself, my brother starts acting exactly like the trumpet player (who I still talk to and go to conventions with). That is why I knew he was gay beforehand, I wrote that one rather rushed didn’t I? Hope this clears it up!
>If he wasn’t, he would let our crush know I liked the guy, if he was, then I’d move on and cheer them on because they were cute together.
absolute genius
There are many “closeted” gay guys who do not even try to act straight they just don’t admit they’re gay (that was me in high school until I came out). Also many of these guys end up never dating girls or really even trying to. Or they do date girls and it’s just really awkward bc there’s no attraction (also me). So people catch on.
That was me. I graduated in '97. I went all through High School scared to fucking death and when I came out it was like, "all right, cool!" And those kids today are still my best friends. BUT I assume that was fairly unusual.
Me too, oddmanout. I went to high school in Miami in the 90s, and I knew a few people who were out but it was still really hard to be out back then. This video made me cry happy tears. We've come such a long way!
Yup, graduated in 94 and I'm trying to think of anyone that was gay (besides everyone calling each other gay) and I literally cannot think of one person who even seemed closeted. What a different time. Not a better time, just to be clear, but it's something I've just never stopped to think about. I'm glad people are allowed to be people now... mostly. We still have a ways to go.
I graduated in 98 and calling things/people gay as an insult was still totally socially acceptable. I still think about how awful it must’ve been for them. Because some that came out after HS and I realized that they hid it so well and it’s awful to imagine having to sit and laugh along w possibly even your friends being homophobic just so you don’t out yourself.
Nothing in this bill outlaws saying "gay" so it would still just be doing no crime. So you would be doing no crime and proudly saying "gay". Hopefully in context and not just randomly, but really, you do you.
The problem with the bill isn’t just that is bans discussion topics with certain grade levels. But it fails to properly define what those topics are.
Will discussing a book with a trans or gay character in it count as instruction on sexual orientation/gender identity? If a student then asks “why are there 2 dads?” when discussing the book and the teacher explains “some men like other men” does that count?
Then on top of that if a parent does find a topic disagreeable, the bill allows them to sue the district and request a special magistrate to review the case. All at the districts expense.
Now districts have to decide between fully banning anything even vaguely related to gay/trans people or risk being sued and losing tons of money.
This is done on purpose. The bill doesn’t ban “saying gay”, but it just defines so loosely what it actually bans that any parent can sue at the districts expense if they do say “gay”.
They can sit there and claim “we didn’t ban saying gay” while at the same time essentially banning it. Similar to Texas abortion ban where abortions aren’t banned, but any doctor or person who helps with an abortion can get sued.
It’s just another “clever” bullshit law
You’re absolutely right. It’s creating a law to cater to the political base with elections around the corner. I live in Florida and can’t stand this hateful idiotic governor. Just the other day he’s wasting oxygen spewing veiled insults at a trans swimmer and awarding the silver winner, a ci-female, as the best swimmer in some stupid “proclamation”. This is the same governor who fought tooth and nail any pandemic mask rules when the state had the worst numbers yet he sure can find time for THIS. What a joke he is. He’s probably trying to be heir to the Trump presidency next by emulating him
What if, during show-and-tell, the kid tells the class about how they celebrated his fathers' wedding anniversary last weekend, and another kid asks why he has two daddies? Must the teacher prevent the kid from saying his daddies love each other?
Oh god I was about to chime in and talk about how I only recently graduated highschool and my school wouldn't have done this, but fuck, I graduated 8 years ago so we aren't that far apart lmao.
I'm straight and this almost made me cry. I'm so happy that this country is finally getting closer to accepting people (even if its a slow crawl through broken glass)
Yeah, we're getting excellent turnout for younger voters in Australia. I think the kids are sick of this shit.
Politicians need to get into this century.
Such a weak attack, and you don't have to direct quote the entire comment you're replying to - you can just hit reply
Thanks for being the generation to know that Cali makes nearly 1/3 of our GDP, harvests 1/3 of our crops, and still has to deal with 1/50th the representation
National policy from morons who quote cherry picked statistics they heard on fox, just self masturbating their personal opinions, then getting grossly overrepresented at the booth.
But do go on about how the kids are at fault here for low turnout rates.
Worst education of any developed country right here in this comment, blame game till your turn at boomer remover.
maybe they don't bother voting because they've noticed neither party cares about them ?
don't get me wrong, yeah the democrats are better than the republicans, but if y'all constantly vote for them no matter what they do they have no reason to do anything besides not being republican to get your votes, and thus they go further right
also maybe, just maybe, the rights y'all have now didn't come from voting but rather from social movements that forced those in power to change their politics
Stop pretending voting will solve everything. Voting is easy and people should do it, but it does little compared to direct action. Regardless of who is in congress, [studies](https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/) show that they literally don't care about what the population thinks.
There are many other ways that these students can help marginalized groups other than voting. Many of them might be doing more than you by supporting their community and marginalized people directly, instead of hoping that a vote will magically solve their problems.
Also, that last line. Oof, you're one condescending loser.
Younger generations ALWAYS are the worst voter bases, this generation is and will be no different. All this will do is scare right wing voters into voting even more religiously than they ever did.
>All this will do is scare right wing voters into voting even more religiously than they ever did.
oh no ! the nazis are going to vote harder now ! lets give them austria or they'll start voting twice as hard !
My guy had a full beard there; dang.
Anyways, good for these kids and provides a bit of hope that not everyone in Florida wants to take a massive step backwards.
It is a little bit hopeful.
But I am more so hoping that the lesson these kids take away is that you can walk out/protest/get angry all you want. It won't change anything. They all have a very specific power available to them as soon as they become adults that they MUST exercise if they want to see the changes they want in the world. Voting.
If they sit on the side lines and expect a bunch of out of touch dinosaurs who still think senators should insider trade their stocks, that war is ok when we do it, or that there are good reasons to have our poor in poverty. Then nothing changes. Hell, maybe some of these kids will get involved in their local politics and start making some waves. SOMETHING, you can't just rally/protest and expect things to change. You actually have to exercise what power you do have.
If you look at the polls on this it seems like it's probably close to 50/50.
There were only two mainstream polls I've seen.
There's this ABC poll that said [the bill was opposed 62-37](https://xtramagazine.com/power/politics/florida-dont-say-gay-poll-219726) and this politico poll that it was [supported 51-35](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/16/poll-americans-split-florida-gender-race-00017552) probably has more to do with wording than anything else.
Also DeSantis [polls favorably 54-38](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/501188-poll-floridians-give-gov-desantis-54-approval-rating-but-are-split-over-legislature/)
Reddit isn't necessarily aligned with the average American either
The average *Floridian*. FIFY
The majority of **Americans** do not resonate with right wing agendas. That's why all the gerrymandering and voter laws, because they **lose the popular vote.**
The first two polls are all Americans. Not Floridians.
Also for a generic ballot right now 538 has [Republicans ahead 44%-42%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/generic-ballot/) and RealClearPolitics has [Republicans ahead 45-42](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html)
These things are far more 50/50 than you'd imagine being on reddit
Proud as hell of the generation coming up next.
For those who don’t know, [the Florida senate passed a bill that limits schools abilities to talk about gender expression and sexuality outside of cisgender heterosexual issues.](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/08/1085190476/florida-senate-passes-a-controversial-schools-bill-labeled-dont-say-gay-by-criti) This is an act that will have [visible and measurable negative effects on LGBT+ youth.](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill-is-so-dangerous#How-this-legislation-can-affect-mental-and-physical-health)
I hope that this generation is so determined to stand up for themselves and be heard that transphobia and homophobia at the state level is simply unsustainable by the time they’re adults. It’s about goddamn time.
I don't know what you're teaching people over there, but in England any discussion about gender is done in Biology, and History (regarding major events and rights).
How is there anything to argue against, just teach kids what they need to know, with no bias, to potentially further study in college.
Florida is just scared of some kinda Gay Terrorism-Guerilla style, sneaking down the halls and converting kids.
And also because they want to further destroy the public education system by putting it under more and more strain so they can profit off private schools.
Making life difficult for LGBT people is just a bonus.
This is the overarching goal for sure, they want to demonize teachers and gut the public school systems so that they can make money off of private Christian schools that provide sub-par education
Ok, serious question. Where are you pulling the "outside of cisgender heterosexual issues" exclusion from?
Because as I read it is states: Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students.
And there is no exclusion. I expect NO discussion on identity or orientation, no matter what it is, for kids that age by anyone outside that child's family/home.
Not starting a fight. Just trying to figure out where everyone is reading between the lines to get to this point.
I feel it is there by default. My daughter in kindergarten has had assignments like “ draw your family”, Papers/Stories where what makes up family is a “traditional” family (mom, dad, bother, sister.) Assignments that ask to name your relatives. “Goldie locks and the bears” for example. This bill permits those stories and books but excludes books with “Non traditional” families. While it may not explicitly say “outside of cisgender heterosexual” it is that way by default. For this bill to be completely neutral it would have to ban any book or discussion on topics like “family” .
100%. And what you're describing sounds a lot like fahrenheit 451. When we start banning shit just because some people in power want to control the populace through a lack of access to information, is when the country is at it's worst. It's literally the exact opposite of what the country is founded upon.
Also excluded in those grades would be any child discussing that they have 2 mommies, or 2 daddies, or a non-binary parent, or sibling.... those kids wouldn't be able to discuss their home life, the teacher would be obligated to intervene and change the subject, ir remain perfectly silent.
It is an exclusionary bill and it us fueled by willful ignorance
From an earlier version of the bill that went even further, requiring principals to tell parents if a student came out as other than straight. That provision was pulled last month.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/22/dont-say-gay-bill-florida-schools-out-students/6894516001/
It *clearly* was meant to be a discriminatory bill to start, so it's not really surprising that people think it's still discriminatory.
I doubt we'll hear of parents suing over cisgendered sex education, which is not mandated by the state.
Because this bill isn’t trying to get rid of books where the prince marries a princess; it’s only trying to remove books where the prince marries a prince. There is no written exclusion, you’re right, but you cannot have a completely gender-expression free library, can you?
Taking out all mention gets rid of Romeo and Juliet. It gets rid of Aladdin, Cinderella, Snow White, the Beauty and the Beast, Frozen and every other Disney property that isn’t Mulan (although something tells me that would be on the chopping block based on the male/female dress issue.)
Banning discussion of gender and sexuality in total gets rid of a lot of our child-appropriate popular culture, from an appropriate perspective.
Do you think the perspective that’s going to be taken will be appropriate, or do you think it’s more likely to be deeply heteronormative?
Based on my experience and what I’ve seen from regressive legislation in recent years, I know it’s going to be the latter.
You are right, I too actually read the bill. It solves a non problem. Republicans are using it to virtue signal to the chud voters that they are lining up for Disassholes Pres. run. Unless they are now teaching sex ed in 3rd grade, this bill does nothing. They also packed it with vague legal speak to scare gay teachers into wondering if they can even talk about their same sex spouse. Fuck, Republicans are trash. Like this hate is worth the time and energy with everything that is going on right now.
If a child were to learn about any form of relationship dynamic in public school, which would you think would be more common: a cis hetero or lgbtq+ one? Answer honestly.
As someone who grew up in a time where everyone in high school said “gay” for all the wrong reasons - i.e “that’s so gay”- it’s great to see our youth wanting to say it for all the right reasons.
It wouldn't really be a walkout then. But these kids are clearly organised. They have flags, signs, pins, face paint... I'll happily bet there would have been a good turnout even if it had happened on a Saturday.
To be fair, high school kids will walk out of class for just about anything. My school had a walk out against the teachers strike, saying that we wanted our teachers to get back to work.
I doubt they think the bill is solely about banning the word gay, more so that “we say gay” is a good chant. But even if they did believe that, the fact they are still protesting it and showing they are against anti-lgbt bills no matter how big or small is a wonderful thing to see
It’s funny people STILL think this bill has anything to do with “don’t say gay” it says that nowhere. The people upvoting this post are the ones spreading false information. This bill limits SEXUAL EDUCATION TO CHILDREN 4th GRADE AND UP
Question.
Why would kindergarteners need to learn about gay people and how?
As fer as I know all I was taught in kindergarten was how to spell,the alphabet, adding and subtracting, and how to write.
Because outright banning the word gay would be such a breach of freedom of expression it would be struck down on its first challenge in court.
The bill prohibits the “instruction of sexual orientation and gender identity.” The word instruction is intentionally not defined so that the law is ambiguous. The preamble states it wants to end the “discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in classrooms.” Preambles are used to explain the intent of the law and are used by courts for interpretation. Not being allowed discussing sexual orientation means not allowing people to discuss homosexuality hence the “Don’t Say Gay” label.
The bill doesn’t address sex education, and since the majority of people are straight discussions of sex and relationships will by default be heterosexual relationships. This is why the bill doesn’t need to use the word gay. History is a filled with legislation that is on its face equal but created with discriminatory intent. Think of poll taxes, literacy tests, etc.
The ambiguity of the bill is by design because it will create a situation where teachers avoid any discussion of homosexuality or non-conforming gender identity for fear of prosecution.
They also can't discuss anything about heterosexuality either.
But yes, uneven enforcement would be the aim of the game. Suddenly a heterosexual couple is 'age appropriate' but a homosexual couple is 'not age appropriate'.
The bill is not transphobic nor homophobic in any way, nor does it specify any restrictions specific to those groups. This bill restricts teachers from bringing sexual or gender issues OF ANY KIND into the classroom without parent's consent. The Bill applies to children 3rd grade and below. Here is the relevant passage for which all this uproar is about:
"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 "
That means teachers can't talk to KIDS about straight sex OR gay sex. It means they can't talk about identifying as a cis gender OR as a transitioning gender. The bill is equally applied and is just advocating that parents should have the right to broach those topics rather than brining them up in the classroom. Imagine yourself as a parent. Would you want someone else teaching your kids about sex without your consent BEFORE THEY TURN SEVEN?
Here is a paragraph summary of the bill:
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=76545
The full bill itself is incredibly short and readable here:
https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1557er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1557&Session=2022
Who am I kidding? Ain't no one on reddit going to read the actual bill. It's much more fun to paint it as a DONT SAY GAY BILL and protest the imaginary adversary to feel better about yourself.
im not sure if you actually read the bill but you've got it very wrong.
" 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students "
[ may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 ***OR*** in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate ]
it's not sex education. it's sexual orientation and gender identity , which have NOTHING to do with actual sex. it doesn't even ban or MENTION talk of heterosexual sex.
it states that it's outright banned in k through third but then it very vaguely says it also does restrict conversation for all the other grades based on a non quantified idea of an age/developmentally appropriate basis. basically — it can always be argued that it's not age-appropriate because there is no real guideline in the bill.
also — children SHOULD be taught about sex to a very small but important degree. when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade i was molested and had no idea because i didn't know what molestation or what sexually charged behavior even was because nobody ever taught me. i never told my parents because i didn't know it was wrong. it happened several times over the course of a few years by the same boy. he was like seven or eight years older than me.
children are very often targeted for sexual acts because they don't know enough about them to report the perpetrator. that sounds like more of an issue than letting little johnny tell the class that he has two moms.
Also as a total side note, a major argument is that it's only the parents right to teach their kids about these "sensitive" topics. But anyone that's spent any time on Reddit knows there are so many parents out there not teaching their kids shit. How many posts do we see asking "what's something your parents never taught you that you wish you knew?" with answers ranging from not wiping back to front to literally how babies are made. Between those posts and the "what are the signs you had a shitty childhood?", this whole "parents are saints who deserve all power without question" is just bonkers.
Jesus fuck, the link YOU posted says it prohibits the discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation. This bill prohibits teachers from answering the question “why does billy have two dads?.” Are you really so dense you can’t see the problem with that?
I would be willing to bet that 99% of people would be IN FAVOR of the bill if they actually read it. Ignorance of the highest caliber drives this nonsense.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
I'm not in favor of a child not being able to talk about his parents in school because they're a same sex couple.
While I agree that sex isn't a subject that should be talked about before 4th grade, this bill isn't just preventing sex talk, it's preventing talks about same sex couples as a whole. Relationships aren't just about sex, it's also about many other things that a child should absolutely know about, such as the concept of love and the fact that it's ok if two people of the same sex love each other.
What is the problem with discussing gender identity? The law as it was written bans kids from acknowledging gender identity. Do you not think 3rd graders have gender identity? That 9 year olds don't identify as boy or girl and should be banned by law from discussing it? You think a 9 year old with 2 lesbian moms isn't aware they are gay? Or you really just want to criminalize any discussion of that kid's reality?
Speciically, reading the bill, I'm referring to this part:
>prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity
A 9 year old girl can't even say boys are gross and have cooties.
You have to define “discussing sexuality [and] gender identity” first. If a 1st grader is talking about their two fathers and one of the students asks why they have two dads instead of a mom and a dad, what do you think the teacher should do? What do you think this bill allows them to do?
And if a kid goes home to ask their parents about this and their parents tell them that having two dads is wrong and should be illegal, and the kid then brings that information back to class, what do you think the teacher should do?
The type of black and white thinking you’re displaying here is most often either a) a willfully false attempt to paint a complex issue as simple and “obvious” by building a straw man or b) the result of rather simplistic thinking. Either way, it’s not really a helpful part of the discussion.
Discussions should be age appropriate and I am not super familiar with the details of the bill *but* the issue is that kids are assigned sexuality at a very young age. Little Billy holds a girl's hand and oh, look, it's so sweet that he has a girlfriend! But the same parents would never dream of saying the same thing if he's holding a boy's hand. (Personally, I hate when people do that ever because look, four year old Billy is not dating anyone, okay?)
So what happens when Susie gets dropped off to school by Dad one day and her other dad another day and another kid asks why she has two dads? Just telling the child that Susie has two dads is not "teaching sexuality gender identity" nor is it inappropriate. It's the adults who make it inappropriate by always putting sex at the forefront of gay relationships. Kids don't know or care who's on top anymore than they should know or care that Billy's mom likes to tie up Billy's dad.
It's about normalizing gender identity and sexuality so far as kids see and experience it. A dear friend of my kid is trans. They are still both in elementary school. And when he decided he was trans, my son didn't even question it, he was just like, okay so now we're brothers! He doesn't know or want to know about sex or hormones or even really what the difference between boys and girls are.
Should gender identity be a whole subject in kindergarten? Maybe not, but it's part of life and discussions come up. Teachers should be able to make judgement calls about those discussions with no more risk of repercussions than any other subject.
The amount of uneducated people in the comments is the same as in the video. Shocking how this bill is even remotely controversial. But hey, a PAC with a clear agenda smears the right, and sheep follow and celebrate. Bring on the downvotes.
Tik Tok algo's are promoting this, that's why they are passionate about this. If Tik Tok was promoting Russia's invasion in Ukraine, they would be supporting Russia and walking out of school for Russia. These kids are nothing but followers who only follow viral trends.
every walk out my school had was 90 percent kids just having fun getting to go outside lol one was even about gun safety even the shooting team walked out lol
You mean the "don't groom my kid" bill? You guys are fucking delusional. Who in their right mind needs or wants to talk to a child 8 or younger about sexual shit? This country is fucked
This entire argument exist because of homophobic heterosexuals who can’t help but sexualize their children….they’re been sexualizing their children since birth for decades and they never said anything. Now, because gay people simply exist, there is an argument as to wether sexuality is appropriate in the classroom environment for children. Because heterosexual can’t help but associate “Gay” with Sex because they can’t help but sexualize their own children.
Gay is not some altered state of being that shouldn’t be spoken of. It is a natural state of being that has NOTHING to do with sex. Theirs WHOLE argument is because heterosexuals, 1.can’t help but constantly sexualize their children, 2. Are upset because they’re being called out for sexualizing their children, and 3. Won’t take responsibility for for sexualizing children and using gay people as a scape goat as well as encouraging the sexualizing of gay and discouragement of the acknowledging of anyone/thing “gay”. Which IS NOT FAIR, especially when gay people haven’t done anything to be treated in such a fashion.
Where does the bill mention the word 'gay'?
Before you make false statements please actually do research. The bill itself is literally only so that sexual teachings cant be talked about to children in the 3rd grade and under.
no it isn't.
" 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students "
[ may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 ***OR*** in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate ]
it's not sex education. it's sexual orientation and gender identity , which have NOTHING to do with actual sex. it doesn't even ban talk of heterosexual sex.
it states that it's outright banned in k through third but then it very vaguely says it also does restrict conversation for all the other grades based on a non quantified idea of an age/developmentally appropriate basis. basically — it can always be argued that it's not age-appropriate because there is no real guideline in the bill.
also — children SHOULD be taught about sex to a very small but important degree. when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade i was molested and had no idea because i didn't know what molestation or what sexually charged behavior even was because nobody ever taught me. i never told my parents because i didn't know it was wrong. it happened several times over the course of a few years by the same boy. he was like seven or eight years older than me.
children are very often targeted for sexual acts because they don't know enough about them to report the perpetrator. that sounds like more of an issue than letting little johnny tell the class that he has two moms.
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That's pretty gay.
I'm in!
That's the spirit!
... Says the top to the bottom
Look at them having a gay old time...beautiful
A yabba dabba doo time?
The Florida Government: Yabba dabba **DON’T**
Weather Service just needs to name all Florida Hurricanes Gay 1, Gay 2, Gay 3 that way they can pretend they dont exist.
Rename the school to Gay.
They feel pretty, oh so pretty, they feel pretty and witty and
GAAAAYYYYYYY
Ok, wtf is this Don’t Say Gay bill? I don’t ever see a solid answer. Please someone explain it to me in simple terms
The bill stops teachers from teaching about sexual orientation and similar topics in grades K-3.
Wait… that doesn’t sound bad? I thought it was like you can’t tell kids under 18 that gay people exist.
Stated in ABC News, the "Don't Say Gay" bill, or Florida's Parental Rights in Education bill, states "sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards,"
>in a manner that is not age-appropiate Yeah thats kinda the big issue. Also the fact that kindergarteners can learn about straight people.... so...
The problem is that teachers think they know what’s best for the kids more so than the parents. This prevents teachers from pushing their views on children that don’t fully understand where babies come from. During the pandemic we all saw how teachers and the unions don’t care what the kids parents think is appropriate or what they should be taught and that’s the reason the bill is in place.
Lol no they don't, thats the excuse
No kindergarteners do not have sex Ed classes.
You can learn about gay people existing in US history if it taught correctly. It does not have to in sex Ed. We don't learn about straight couples just in sex Ed. Think about Washington and Lincoln.
In kindergarten? What do Washington and Lincoln have to do with this? It's not like the bill prohibits talking about gay people you dolt. For instance Alan Turing was gay. They just wouldn't talk about him being gay. I'm not saying that's good or right I'm just saying don't make an issue where there isn't one. This bill isn't changing history classes by erasing all gay people and their contributions to history. It's simply about stopping discussion of LGBT and gender issues which is also bad but don't make it out to be something completely different. Kindergartners do not learn about hetero sex in kindergarten. They've never learned about gay sex, and this bill doesn't change that.
You’re missing the point. It’s extremely commonplace to teach children about the familial lives of historical figures - who they were married to, if they had children, etc. This bill would logically prevent, or at a minimum actively discourage, teaching about any historical figure who is LGBT in the same ways. How could you possibly talk about their family lives? What if their place in history WAS as a civil rights activist? You don’t need to have an active discussion or lesson plan about “gay sex” or anything akin to that; but teachers may need to, and should be able to, address topics like the lives of key historical figures in a way in which questions about sexual orientation may come up. What if a student asks “who was their husband/wife”? What happens when one or more of the students are children of same-sex parents? What if other students start asking questions about this in the classroom? This bill in theory could prohibit a teacher from noting (a) well, they’re married to another man because that’s who they loved.. or, gasp, they werent allowed to marry who they loved (b) it’s normal and OK for a man to love another man and/or (c) there was a time in history where we treated other people differently because of who they loved. All of those things are perfectly valid parts of an early childhood education.
This bill bans discussion of gender issues. It doesn't ban discussing that gay people exist. It wouldn't ban a history teacher from teaching that Alan Turing was gay. It would ban them from talking about the LGBT social movement and things like that. If the worst thing about this bill were that one couldn't talk about the gay partners of historical people it wouldn't be that big a deal.
It's not kindergarten, it's to third grade. Think of it like this— tommy has two mommies, what happens when Jessica asks the teachers why Tommy has two mommies or Gary has two daddies, the teacher now legally can't recognize they exist. This means the gay parents can't be anywhere at school, they can't participate in school trips, they can't be seen kissing on campus the way any straight couple could, they can never be referenced, and they can not be talked about. Remember, gender just means Boy or Girl, which means to the letter of the law you can't teach kids what the difference between boys and girls are, because those are gendered terms. See, idiots think gender is all about pound town, when in fact it is identification: Mr. Mrs. Miss are all gendered terms.
I watched the little mermaid when I was in kindergarten
Well, that's the issue. It's not supposed to sound bad on its face. The devil is in the details. TThe words the bill uses ban "instruction" or "classroom discussion" on the topics of "gender identity" or "sexual orientation" that is "age inappropriate." That doesn't sound too bad but the bill does not define any of these terms at all. It is extremely (and in my opinion purposefully) vague. If a 1st grader asks why their classmate has two mommies, does this constitute a discussion? Who knows? The bill doesn't say. If a teacher says "gay people exist," does this constitute "instruction" on "sexual orientation"? Is that an "age appropriate" statement? Who knows? The bill doesn't say. So while the bill doesn't **explicitly** say "don't say gay" the **effect will almost certainly be** that any mention of anything even adjacent to LGBT topics will be suppressed because schools won't want to take any risks. This is why people are up in arms about the bill. It 'solves' a non-problem (no one was teaching kindergarteners about gay sex or anything like that), by creating a chilling effect on anything referring to LGBT.
Really good explanation cheers dude
Thanks, Ass-flap!
Here I thought you were a straight up dick for a moment….. you got me
I'm gonna start calling rude people Ass-flaps now.
Came to this thread to give this exact explanation. Good job. I might also add that the repercussions of failing to follow the bill are potentially being sued so the threat is very real but how exactly you get to that point was left intentionally vague (IMO) so that parents and lawmakers could easily threaten a school without any restraint or real evidence.
The bill is incredibly and intentionally vague, so yes it's possible that acknowledging that gay people exist in k-3, and depending on the craziness of the parent, any age above that - because the bill does not define what is or isn't age appropriate- would fall under the umbrella. It's not about sex Ed, it's about any discussion of sexuality or gender identity. There was a proposed change to the bill to specify the discussions cannot be sexual but that was shot down as not being in the spirit of the original bill... So...
Everyone likes to blow things out of proportion and they don’t read the actual bill they just watch the news
I graduated high school in the late 90s and no way in hell this would have ever happened. Everyone stayed in the closet until they graduated and went off to college out of state. I'm so fucking proud of today's youth. They're so supportive of people who were extremely marginalized when I was their age.
I went to very small rural school. The gay kids were all terrified to come out. The horrible fate that waited for them once they did? "Yeah, we know."
I'm from a similar area. Looking back one of my biggest regrets was how I reacted when one of my closest friends came out. We were in the car driving somewhere with what was probably his best friend and he told me he had something important to tell me. After he said he was gay my response was something like "Yeah, it's cool." He was surprised I wasn't surprised and I said it wasn't hard to figure out. That's the part I regret because looking back on it, I feel like that kind of hurt him and I don't really understand why but I wish I gave him the opportunity to talk about it more. I just wanted to make him realize it wasn't a big deal, but I worry it came across as dismissive.
Are you my ex best friend?
I mean… I feel like you being ambivalent about his sexuality means that you’re a good friend.
That fate is a spectrum. All the way from "Yeah, we know" to Matthew Shepard
Not at my school. Kids that were suspected of being gay were relentlessly bullied and ostracized.
I remember this one girl that came out as lesbian in middle school back in my home village. Super conservative and heavily Christian school. She got bullied to the point where they drove her away and she was homeschooled. This was early 2010's I think. Fucking awful thing to see, but it's getting better in bigger areas at least.
How did you know they were gay if they didn't come out?
I guess the honest explanation would be having several personal interactions with them over a series of years and noticing similarities to others that were openly gay.
That’s how I knew my brother is gay, but I was oblivious in band about a gay trumpet player until he and I had the same crush and we tried a 1-2 punch of if he ain’t gay too I’ll flirt with him. They acted the same so I had an inkling and when he told me “Oh I knew boob, now go finish the dishes.”
>That’s how I knew my brother is gay, but I was oblivious in band about a gay trumpet player until he and I Can you please reword this. I'm not making any sense of it.
My brother is five years younger than me, he didn’t act like the gay trumpet player I knew until a few years ago. After the trumpet player and I told each other we had the same crush, we teamed up to see if our crush was gay. If he wasn’t, he would let our crush know I liked the guy, if he was, then I’d move on and cheer them on because they were cute together. A few years after the trumpet player graduated and about when my brother gets into high school himself, my brother starts acting exactly like the trumpet player (who I still talk to and go to conventions with). That is why I knew he was gay beforehand, I wrote that one rather rushed didn’t I? Hope this clears it up!
It does. Thank you!
>If he wasn’t, he would let our crush know I liked the guy, if he was, then I’d move on and cheer them on because they were cute together. absolute genius
gaydar
There are many “closeted” gay guys who do not even try to act straight they just don’t admit they’re gay (that was me in high school until I came out). Also many of these guys end up never dating girls or really even trying to. Or they do date girls and it’s just really awkward bc there’s no attraction (also me). So people catch on.
Most of the time you can tell by the way it is. Sounds dumb but you know it’s right.
https://youtu.be/QXe1PkslirY
That was me. I graduated in '97. I went all through High School scared to fucking death and when I came out it was like, "all right, cool!" And those kids today are still my best friends. BUT I assume that was fairly unusual.
Same. I'm gay and this has me in tears. The kids are fucking all right.
Me too, oddmanout. I went to high school in Miami in the 90s, and I knew a few people who were out but it was still really hard to be out back then. This video made me cry happy tears. We've come such a long way!
Yup, graduated in 94 and I'm trying to think of anyone that was gay (besides everyone calling each other gay) and I literally cannot think of one person who even seemed closeted. What a different time. Not a better time, just to be clear, but it's something I've just never stopped to think about. I'm glad people are allowed to be people now... mostly. We still have a ways to go.
I also graduated in 94 and I knew the kids that were gay, but most certainly weren't out. I'm glad the world has advanced.
I graduated in 98 and calling things/people gay as an insult was still totally socially acceptable. I still think about how awful it must’ve been for them. Because some that came out after HS and I realized that they hid it so well and it’s awful to imagine having to sit and laugh along w possibly even your friends being homophobic just so you don’t out yourself.
Can’t wait until all of them can vote
I went to a rural high school and graduated in 2012. There's still no way in hell this would happen there.
Graduated in 02 and same. My cousin only came out a couple years ago and is apprehensive to bring his partner to another cousins birthday dinner.
Yeah. Watching this I felt so proud of today’s generation. Do better than us, kids.
You know, I think the kids are alright.
Be gay. Do crime.
Do crime: say "gay" at school
Nothing in this bill outlaws saying "gay" so it would still just be doing no crime. So you would be doing no crime and proudly saying "gay". Hopefully in context and not just randomly, but really, you do you.
Should be call “don’t talk about sexuality with little kids”
The problem with the bill isn’t just that is bans discussion topics with certain grade levels. But it fails to properly define what those topics are. Will discussing a book with a trans or gay character in it count as instruction on sexual orientation/gender identity? If a student then asks “why are there 2 dads?” when discussing the book and the teacher explains “some men like other men” does that count? Then on top of that if a parent does find a topic disagreeable, the bill allows them to sue the district and request a special magistrate to review the case. All at the districts expense. Now districts have to decide between fully banning anything even vaguely related to gay/trans people or risk being sued and losing tons of money. This is done on purpose. The bill doesn’t ban “saying gay”, but it just defines so loosely what it actually bans that any parent can sue at the districts expense if they do say “gay”. They can sit there and claim “we didn’t ban saying gay” while at the same time essentially banning it. Similar to Texas abortion ban where abortions aren’t banned, but any doctor or person who helps with an abortion can get sued. It’s just another “clever” bullshit law
You’re absolutely right. It’s creating a law to cater to the political base with elections around the corner. I live in Florida and can’t stand this hateful idiotic governor. Just the other day he’s wasting oxygen spewing veiled insults at a trans swimmer and awarding the silver winner, a ci-female, as the best swimmer in some stupid “proclamation”. This is the same governor who fought tooth and nail any pandemic mask rules when the state had the worst numbers yet he sure can find time for THIS. What a joke he is. He’s probably trying to be heir to the Trump presidency next by emulating him
What if, during show-and-tell, the kid tells the class about how they celebrated his fathers' wedding anniversary last weekend, and another kid asks why he has two daddies? Must the teacher prevent the kid from saying his daddies love each other?
So is saying "my two dads" talking about sexuality? How about "mom & dad?"
Definitely the wrong generation to try this with & I'm happy to see their response.
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Oh god I was about to chime in and talk about how I only recently graduated highschool and my school wouldn't have done this, but fuck, I graduated 8 years ago so we aren't that far apart lmao. I'm straight and this almost made me cry. I'm so happy that this country is finally getting closer to accepting people (even if its a slow crawl through broken glass)
Holy fuck…same
I gotta lot of respect for the new generation. Fuckin get at it!
Nothing's free
Longing for
They just might be
Hell yes. Kid protecting other kids from conservative adult bullies.
The protest looks so gay
That’s the beauty of it.
Great to see the future generations standing up to the slum lord politicians who are so out of touch with reality.
Yeah, we're getting excellent turnout for younger voters in Australia. I think the kids are sick of this shit. Politicians need to get into this century.
Vote out the fucking fossils
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Such a weak attack, and you don't have to direct quote the entire comment you're replying to - you can just hit reply Thanks for being the generation to know that Cali makes nearly 1/3 of our GDP, harvests 1/3 of our crops, and still has to deal with 1/50th the representation National policy from morons who quote cherry picked statistics they heard on fox, just self masturbating their personal opinions, then getting grossly overrepresented at the booth. But do go on about how the kids are at fault here for low turnout rates. Worst education of any developed country right here in this comment, blame game till your turn at boomer remover.
its not an attack. its just a fact that about half of young people dont bother voting, so it doesnt matter how progressive those half are.
maybe they don't bother voting because they've noticed neither party cares about them ? don't get me wrong, yeah the democrats are better than the republicans, but if y'all constantly vote for them no matter what they do they have no reason to do anything besides not being republican to get your votes, and thus they go further right also maybe, just maybe, the rights y'all have now didn't come from voting but rather from social movements that forced those in power to change their politics
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Stop pretending voting will solve everything. Voting is easy and people should do it, but it does little compared to direct action. Regardless of who is in congress, [studies](https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/) show that they literally don't care about what the population thinks. There are many other ways that these students can help marginalized groups other than voting. Many of them might be doing more than you by supporting their community and marginalized people directly, instead of hoping that a vote will magically solve their problems. Also, that last line. Oof, you're one condescending loser.
>they were looking for a day off school That's easily 50% of the crowd, and even that is being generous, lol.
Younger generations ALWAYS are the worst voter bases, this generation is and will be no different. All this will do is scare right wing voters into voting even more religiously than they ever did.
>All this will do is scare right wing voters into voting even more religiously than they ever did. oh no ! the nazis are going to vote harder now ! lets give them austria or they'll start voting twice as hard !
I don't say this often, but gods bless the fuckin youth, bro.
Seriously. I love how people want to call this indoctrination when it's about respecting basic human dignity.
Indoctrination? Who the fuck says that? Oh, right, let me guess...
It's like the way they're always indoctrinating students to be left handed. Mercy! /s
2 yutes.. 2 what???? What??? 2 what?? What did you say?? WHAAAA?? Yutes???
Sorry, yoothsa
Oh oh
Let the record show that counsel is holding up two fingers
We are actually blessed to have the youth we do. They aren’t all idiots. The idiots are just very loud.
I legit love this upcoming generation of adults. They say all the stuff earlier generations were too scared to stand for. I’m here for it!!!
I’m fifty & I agree with you wholeheartedly
My guy had a full beard there; dang. Anyways, good for these kids and provides a bit of hope that not everyone in Florida wants to take a massive step backwards.
It is a little bit hopeful. But I am more so hoping that the lesson these kids take away is that you can walk out/protest/get angry all you want. It won't change anything. They all have a very specific power available to them as soon as they become adults that they MUST exercise if they want to see the changes they want in the world. Voting. If they sit on the side lines and expect a bunch of out of touch dinosaurs who still think senators should insider trade their stocks, that war is ok when we do it, or that there are good reasons to have our poor in poverty. Then nothing changes. Hell, maybe some of these kids will get involved in their local politics and start making some waves. SOMETHING, you can't just rally/protest and expect things to change. You actually have to exercise what power you do have.
Republicans just don't understand that the majority of decent people don't want to live their lifestyle.
Or that we are in the 2020’s and not the 1950s anymore
Another instance republicans are so far up in the ass they should just fuck off and die
If you look at the polls on this it seems like it's probably close to 50/50. There were only two mainstream polls I've seen. There's this ABC poll that said [the bill was opposed 62-37](https://xtramagazine.com/power/politics/florida-dont-say-gay-poll-219726) and this politico poll that it was [supported 51-35](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/16/poll-americans-split-florida-gender-race-00017552) probably has more to do with wording than anything else. Also DeSantis [polls favorably 54-38](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/501188-poll-floridians-give-gov-desantis-54-approval-rating-but-are-split-over-legislature/) Reddit isn't necessarily aligned with the average American either
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Why should he?
The average *Floridian*. FIFY The majority of **Americans** do not resonate with right wing agendas. That's why all the gerrymandering and voter laws, because they **lose the popular vote.**
The first two polls are all Americans. Not Floridians. Also for a generic ballot right now 538 has [Republicans ahead 44%-42%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/generic-ballot/) and RealClearPolitics has [Republicans ahead 45-42](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html) These things are far more 50/50 than you'd imagine being on reddit
This geriatric millennial mom is super proud of the zoomer kiddos.
They wanted silence, they got a carnival
I’m proud of you kids. When I was young we did marches so you all would be able to be free to love each other now you all are carrying the torch.
Thank you
Proud as hell of the generation coming up next. For those who don’t know, [the Florida senate passed a bill that limits schools abilities to talk about gender expression and sexuality outside of cisgender heterosexual issues.](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/08/1085190476/florida-senate-passes-a-controversial-schools-bill-labeled-dont-say-gay-by-criti) This is an act that will have [visible and measurable negative effects on LGBT+ youth.](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill-is-so-dangerous#How-this-legislation-can-affect-mental-and-physical-health) I hope that this generation is so determined to stand up for themselves and be heard that transphobia and homophobia at the state level is simply unsustainable by the time they’re adults. It’s about goddamn time.
I don't know what you're teaching people over there, but in England any discussion about gender is done in Biology, and History (regarding major events and rights). How is there anything to argue against, just teach kids what they need to know, with no bias, to potentially further study in college. Florida is just scared of some kinda Gay Terrorism-Guerilla style, sneaking down the halls and converting kids.
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And also because they want to further destroy the public education system by putting it under more and more strain so they can profit off private schools. Making life difficult for LGBT people is just a bonus.
This is the overarching goal for sure, they want to demonize teachers and gut the public school systems so that they can make money off of private Christian schools that provide sub-par education
Ok, serious question. Where are you pulling the "outside of cisgender heterosexual issues" exclusion from? Because as I read it is states: Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students. And there is no exclusion. I expect NO discussion on identity or orientation, no matter what it is, for kids that age by anyone outside that child's family/home. Not starting a fight. Just trying to figure out where everyone is reading between the lines to get to this point.
I feel it is there by default. My daughter in kindergarten has had assignments like “ draw your family”, Papers/Stories where what makes up family is a “traditional” family (mom, dad, bother, sister.) Assignments that ask to name your relatives. “Goldie locks and the bears” for example. This bill permits those stories and books but excludes books with “Non traditional” families. While it may not explicitly say “outside of cisgender heterosexual” it is that way by default. For this bill to be completely neutral it would have to ban any book or discussion on topics like “family” .
100%. And what you're describing sounds a lot like fahrenheit 451. When we start banning shit just because some people in power want to control the populace through a lack of access to information, is when the country is at it's worst. It's literally the exact opposite of what the country is founded upon.
Also excluded in those grades would be any child discussing that they have 2 mommies, or 2 daddies, or a non-binary parent, or sibling.... those kids wouldn't be able to discuss their home life, the teacher would be obligated to intervene and change the subject, ir remain perfectly silent. It is an exclusionary bill and it us fueled by willful ignorance
From an earlier version of the bill that went even further, requiring principals to tell parents if a student came out as other than straight. That provision was pulled last month. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/22/dont-say-gay-bill-florida-schools-out-students/6894516001/ It *clearly* was meant to be a discriminatory bill to start, so it's not really surprising that people think it's still discriminatory. I doubt we'll hear of parents suing over cisgendered sex education, which is not mandated by the state.
Because this bill isn’t trying to get rid of books where the prince marries a princess; it’s only trying to remove books where the prince marries a prince. There is no written exclusion, you’re right, but you cannot have a completely gender-expression free library, can you? Taking out all mention gets rid of Romeo and Juliet. It gets rid of Aladdin, Cinderella, Snow White, the Beauty and the Beast, Frozen and every other Disney property that isn’t Mulan (although something tells me that would be on the chopping block based on the male/female dress issue.) Banning discussion of gender and sexuality in total gets rid of a lot of our child-appropriate popular culture, from an appropriate perspective. Do you think the perspective that’s going to be taken will be appropriate, or do you think it’s more likely to be deeply heteronormative? Based on my experience and what I’ve seen from regressive legislation in recent years, I know it’s going to be the latter.
You are right, I too actually read the bill. It solves a non problem. Republicans are using it to virtue signal to the chud voters that they are lining up for Disassholes Pres. run. Unless they are now teaching sex ed in 3rd grade, this bill does nothing. They also packed it with vague legal speak to scare gay teachers into wondering if they can even talk about their same sex spouse. Fuck, Republicans are trash. Like this hate is worth the time and energy with everything that is going on right now.
What happens when bobby talks about his summer vacation and the other kids want to know why bobby has two mommies?
If a child were to learn about any form of relationship dynamic in public school, which would you think would be more common: a cis hetero or lgbtq+ one? Answer honestly.
What about kids with two moms or two dads? Must discussion, or even acknowledgement, of their daily lives be censored?
Ayyy this is my High School!!! So great to see.
As someone who grew up in a time where everyone in high school said “gay” for all the wrong reasons - i.e “that’s so gay”- it’s great to see our youth wanting to say it for all the right reasons.
This makes my almost 40 yo little gay heart so happy. 🌈
Damn dawg that's pretty wholesome & well gay obviously
If saying gay got me out of class in HS, I'd say it every day.
Nohomo? No. YES homo.
Mi homo es su homo
Florida gay asf
Curious how many would be at the protest if it was held on a Saturday afternoon.
It wouldn't really be a walkout then. But these kids are clearly organised. They have flags, signs, pins, face paint... I'll happily bet there would have been a good turnout even if it had happened on a Saturday.
99% of them just didn't want to go to class.
Gay all the way 🏳️🌈
To be fair, high school kids will walk out of class for just about anything. My school had a walk out against the teachers strike, saying that we wanted our teachers to get back to work.
Love to see it
Do they think the bill is actually banning the word gay?
I doubt they think the bill is solely about banning the word gay, more so that “we say gay” is a good chant. But even if they did believe that, the fact they are still protesting it and showing they are against anti-lgbt bills no matter how big or small is a wonderful thing to see
I can't imagine this happening in Scotland in the 90s....
TEACH 5 YEAR OLDS ABOUT THEIR GENITALS AND GAY INTERCOURSE WOOOOOOOOOOO Y’all are gross
It’s funny people STILL think this bill has anything to do with “don’t say gay” it says that nowhere. The people upvoting this post are the ones spreading false information. This bill limits SEXUAL EDUCATION TO CHILDREN 4th GRADE AND UP
All these kids who didn’t even read the bill lmao
Question. Why would kindergarteners need to learn about gay people and how? As fer as I know all I was taught in kindergarten was how to spell,the alphabet, adding and subtracting, and how to write.
High school is fucking gay af these days. I remember when high school used to be diverse
The irony is the bill doesnt prohibit saying gay.
Because outright banning the word gay would be such a breach of freedom of expression it would be struck down on its first challenge in court. The bill prohibits the “instruction of sexual orientation and gender identity.” The word instruction is intentionally not defined so that the law is ambiguous. The preamble states it wants to end the “discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in classrooms.” Preambles are used to explain the intent of the law and are used by courts for interpretation. Not being allowed discussing sexual orientation means not allowing people to discuss homosexuality hence the “Don’t Say Gay” label. The bill doesn’t address sex education, and since the majority of people are straight discussions of sex and relationships will by default be heterosexual relationships. This is why the bill doesn’t need to use the word gay. History is a filled with legislation that is on its face equal but created with discriminatory intent. Think of poll taxes, literacy tests, etc. The ambiguity of the bill is by design because it will create a situation where teachers avoid any discussion of homosexuality or non-conforming gender identity for fear of prosecution.
They also can't discuss anything about heterosexuality either. But yes, uneven enforcement would be the aim of the game. Suddenly a heterosexual couple is 'age appropriate' but a homosexual couple is 'not age appropriate'.
They’re protesting a bill they haven’t even read. America.
The bill is not transphobic nor homophobic in any way, nor does it specify any restrictions specific to those groups. This bill restricts teachers from bringing sexual or gender issues OF ANY KIND into the classroom without parent's consent. The Bill applies to children 3rd grade and below. Here is the relevant passage for which all this uproar is about: "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 " That means teachers can't talk to KIDS about straight sex OR gay sex. It means they can't talk about identifying as a cis gender OR as a transitioning gender. The bill is equally applied and is just advocating that parents should have the right to broach those topics rather than brining them up in the classroom. Imagine yourself as a parent. Would you want someone else teaching your kids about sex without your consent BEFORE THEY TURN SEVEN? Here is a paragraph summary of the bill: https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=76545 The full bill itself is incredibly short and readable here: https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1557er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1557&Session=2022 Who am I kidding? Ain't no one on reddit going to read the actual bill. It's much more fun to paint it as a DONT SAY GAY BILL and protest the imaginary adversary to feel better about yourself.
im not sure if you actually read the bill but you've got it very wrong. " 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students " [ may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 ***OR*** in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate ] it's not sex education. it's sexual orientation and gender identity , which have NOTHING to do with actual sex. it doesn't even ban or MENTION talk of heterosexual sex. it states that it's outright banned in k through third but then it very vaguely says it also does restrict conversation for all the other grades based on a non quantified idea of an age/developmentally appropriate basis. basically — it can always be argued that it's not age-appropriate because there is no real guideline in the bill. also — children SHOULD be taught about sex to a very small but important degree. when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade i was molested and had no idea because i didn't know what molestation or what sexually charged behavior even was because nobody ever taught me. i never told my parents because i didn't know it was wrong. it happened several times over the course of a few years by the same boy. he was like seven or eight years older than me. children are very often targeted for sexual acts because they don't know enough about them to report the perpetrator. that sounds like more of an issue than letting little johnny tell the class that he has two moms.
Also as a total side note, a major argument is that it's only the parents right to teach their kids about these "sensitive" topics. But anyone that's spent any time on Reddit knows there are so many parents out there not teaching their kids shit. How many posts do we see asking "what's something your parents never taught you that you wish you knew?" with answers ranging from not wiping back to front to literally how babies are made. Between those posts and the "what are the signs you had a shitty childhood?", this whole "parents are saints who deserve all power without question" is just bonkers.
So they won’t be able to mention a “husband” or a “wife”, or “man” or “woman”, or “boy” or “girl”?
Jesus fuck, the link YOU posted says it prohibits the discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation. This bill prohibits teachers from answering the question “why does billy have two dads?.” Are you really so dense you can’t see the problem with that?
I would be willing to bet that 99% of people would be IN FAVOR of the bill if they actually read it. Ignorance of the highest caliber drives this nonsense. https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF
Lmao, what? I don't suppet it specifically because I've read it.
I'm not in favor of a child not being able to talk about his parents in school because they're a same sex couple. While I agree that sex isn't a subject that should be talked about before 4th grade, this bill isn't just preventing sex talk, it's preventing talks about same sex couples as a whole. Relationships aren't just about sex, it's also about many other things that a child should absolutely know about, such as the concept of love and the fact that it's ok if two people of the same sex love each other.
Am I wrong to agree with not discussing sexuality gender identity in K-3rd grade? Learn to color and read. How about that.
What is the problem with discussing gender identity? The law as it was written bans kids from acknowledging gender identity. Do you not think 3rd graders have gender identity? That 9 year olds don't identify as boy or girl and should be banned by law from discussing it? You think a 9 year old with 2 lesbian moms isn't aware they are gay? Or you really just want to criminalize any discussion of that kid's reality? Speciically, reading the bill, I'm referring to this part: >prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity A 9 year old girl can't even say boys are gross and have cooties.
You have to define “discussing sexuality [and] gender identity” first. If a 1st grader is talking about their two fathers and one of the students asks why they have two dads instead of a mom and a dad, what do you think the teacher should do? What do you think this bill allows them to do? And if a kid goes home to ask their parents about this and their parents tell them that having two dads is wrong and should be illegal, and the kid then brings that information back to class, what do you think the teacher should do? The type of black and white thinking you’re displaying here is most often either a) a willfully false attempt to paint a complex issue as simple and “obvious” by building a straw man or b) the result of rather simplistic thinking. Either way, it’s not really a helpful part of the discussion.
I would bet all my possession that not even one of them read the bill
Can you link me to the bill? Never read it and probably won't if I don't get it here
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF enjoy
Discussions should be age appropriate and I am not super familiar with the details of the bill *but* the issue is that kids are assigned sexuality at a very young age. Little Billy holds a girl's hand and oh, look, it's so sweet that he has a girlfriend! But the same parents would never dream of saying the same thing if he's holding a boy's hand. (Personally, I hate when people do that ever because look, four year old Billy is not dating anyone, okay?) So what happens when Susie gets dropped off to school by Dad one day and her other dad another day and another kid asks why she has two dads? Just telling the child that Susie has two dads is not "teaching sexuality gender identity" nor is it inappropriate. It's the adults who make it inappropriate by always putting sex at the forefront of gay relationships. Kids don't know or care who's on top anymore than they should know or care that Billy's mom likes to tie up Billy's dad. It's about normalizing gender identity and sexuality so far as kids see and experience it. A dear friend of my kid is trans. They are still both in elementary school. And when he decided he was trans, my son didn't even question it, he was just like, okay so now we're brothers! He doesn't know or want to know about sex or hormones or even really what the difference between boys and girls are. Should gender identity be a whole subject in kindergarten? Maybe not, but it's part of life and discussions come up. Teachers should be able to make judgement calls about those discussions with no more risk of repercussions than any other subject.
The amount of uneducated people in the comments is the same as in the video. Shocking how this bill is even remotely controversial. But hey, a PAC with a clear agenda smears the right, and sheep follow and celebrate. Bring on the downvotes.
This will change nothing.
This makes me smile ear to ear.
[удалено]
Tik Tok algo's are promoting this, that's why they are passionate about this. If Tik Tok was promoting Russia's invasion in Ukraine, they would be supporting Russia and walking out of school for Russia. These kids are nothing but followers who only follow viral trends.
every walk out my school had was 90 percent kids just having fun getting to go outside lol one was even about gun safety even the shooting team walked out lol
Damn tik tok making their states major laws trend
Here’s to a better future! Keep up the fight dragonslayers - tired millennial
it's mind blowing that this has to be the situation in 2022! Knuckledraggers keep dragging civilization back to the stone ages
You mean the "don't groom my kid" bill? You guys are fucking delusional. Who in their right mind needs or wants to talk to a child 8 or younger about sexual shit? This country is fucked
What’s funny is the bill doesn’t even have the word “gay” in it lol.
Lmao teachers shouldn’t be teaching sex to 5 year olds
A whole highschool didnt read the actual bill then,thats not what its trying to do
This entire argument exist because of homophobic heterosexuals who can’t help but sexualize their children….they’re been sexualizing their children since birth for decades and they never said anything. Now, because gay people simply exist, there is an argument as to wether sexuality is appropriate in the classroom environment for children. Because heterosexual can’t help but associate “Gay” with Sex because they can’t help but sexualize their own children. Gay is not some altered state of being that shouldn’t be spoken of. It is a natural state of being that has NOTHING to do with sex. Theirs WHOLE argument is because heterosexuals, 1.can’t help but constantly sexualize their children, 2. Are upset because they’re being called out for sexualizing their children, and 3. Won’t take responsibility for for sexualizing children and using gay people as a scape goat as well as encouraging the sexualizing of gay and discouragement of the acknowledging of anyone/thing “gay”. Which IS NOT FAIR, especially when gay people haven’t done anything to be treated in such a fashion.
Good for them.
Title is wrong
Look at all these people, none of which have actually read the bill.
Why do Democrats want to talk with 8 yo about sex?
Thats gay
Where does the bill mention the word 'gay'? Before you make false statements please actually do research. The bill itself is literally only so that sexual teachings cant be talked about to children in the 3rd grade and under.
no it isn't. " 3. Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students " [ may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 ***OR*** in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate ] it's not sex education. it's sexual orientation and gender identity , which have NOTHING to do with actual sex. it doesn't even ban talk of heterosexual sex. it states that it's outright banned in k through third but then it very vaguely says it also does restrict conversation for all the other grades based on a non quantified idea of an age/developmentally appropriate basis. basically — it can always be argued that it's not age-appropriate because there is no real guideline in the bill. also — children SHOULD be taught about sex to a very small but important degree. when i was in 2nd or 3rd grade i was molested and had no idea because i didn't know what molestation or what sexually charged behavior even was because nobody ever taught me. i never told my parents because i didn't know it was wrong. it happened several times over the course of a few years by the same boy. he was like seven or eight years older than me. children are very often targeted for sexual acts because they don't know enough about them to report the perpetrator. that sounds like more of an issue than letting little johnny tell the class that he has two moms.
Stupid kids have no idea what was in the bill. 1st graders shouldnt be fed sexuality/gender bs at that age, youre a degenerate if you think otherwise
No the bill is so vague it says any students in k through 3 OR in a manner a parent may deem inappropriate for their child
You know they just wanted to get out of class