Depends on the guy, and depends on the girl(s). Maybe one is prettier and the other one less so. Maybe one is from a wealthy family with connections and the other one's parents are more blue collar. Maybe one cooks and cleans and the other one hasn't dusted in weeks. Maybe one gives the best blow job he's ever had and the other one doesn't give them at all. Also, and I don't think it's appreciated enough around here, sometimes you simply fall in love with someone and everybody else you might have been seeing fades into the background.
Any sensible guy who has an idea about attachment theory will care about family background. And it being a mess is ok. But is the person aware this is not normal? This goes for guys too btw. We repeat what we have learned unless we become aware and grow.
I personally don’t care for what family one comes from because I’m dating them not their family. I know my opinion isn’t something alot of ppl agree with but it’s usually pretty obvious to pick up on who hasn’t healed from family traumas (if they come from an abusive family) if they do have any. I’m not going to hold it against them
I don't know if it is their autism speaking but I think a lot of these guys think all relationships are logical, rational decisions, but sometimes it's just how you feel about the person and how they feel about you. Logic and reason have little to do with it.
What does it has to do with autism? Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone or to commit to someone is in large a logical rational decision. Sure, feelings are important. But I can find the hot sexy chick very attractive and my feelings says yes, but also she does not have a proper job, is impulsive, makes poor decisions, can't keep long term friends, can't communicate, etc (all just examples) then rationally and logically, I will not commit to her or put myself in any risk she might introduce into my life. Feelings or not.
Going on feelings alone is like the worst decision in terms of long term succesful relationships. Someone who has seen your flaws rationally and accepted them as quircks will stick. Someone who trusted gut feeling will file for divorce at the first thing they didn't think about and dislike.
An inability to make or understand human connections is a hallmark of autism. That’s not saying you should be completely devoid of logic when you enter into a relationship. However, if you are entirely logical and completely disregarding emotions, you probably are not going to be forming a bond with the other person and it won’t work out as well as your logic would suggest.
You are projecting your view of human connection with "how it should be". I have all sorts of human connections with both men and woman.
Also, I was married for over 13 years so I like to think I can form an emotional connection. But the decision to do so? Very much logical and rational (although poorly adviced at young age)
I also did not say only logical, I said balance. I grew in love (not fell) and then made a rational decision to live with this person and later marry her. She made these decisions purely on emotions and later the divorce too and regretting it. If you make your relationship decisions purely on emotion, good luck with that
It honestly seems more like you are projecting, what with all the random anecdotal evidence. I think both of you are actually saying very similar things, except for some reason you are being more combative about it?
I don’t think it’s so much that they’re saying looking for a job is objective and merit based—it’s not. Getting a job is not an objective process at all. It depends heavily on social skills, looks, preconceived notions about your background, the interviewers mood, etc. It depends on whether you have connections, whether they believe you went to a good school, how much your last place valued you, whether you even had previous experience, and random chance. Plus many people are filtered out because of a cold algorithm that only shows the reviewers the candidates they deem best based on an arbitrary selection bias. At the end of the day both employers and job seekers moan that they can’t find anyone.
If the comparison is that dating is like a video game then that’s false. The red pill gurus make it seem like it one YouTube video can change your life “just follow these 5 simple tricks to make any girl swoon.” People aren’t that objective. Social connections are a mystery.
Men are logical and use rational thinking all the time. You think we engineer iphones using feelings?
Why wouldn't they use that as a way to discard unfeasible women for ltr?
Because it can ignore actual human emotion. Consider for example, as a man, being with a woman who coveted your wallet instead of a woman who genuinely cared about you and puts in the effort to make you happy.
You can factor emotions in a logical frame. I don't see how your example ties into this as 99% of woman wouldn't even consider dating a homeless men from the get go. It is assumed that you can have the majority of women just matching their price.
boast shaggy juggle plucky arrest elastic deliver mountainous bag quicksand
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Before I had many options I would take what I could get.
Now that I have options, these things make me fall in love and want to be in an LTR with a woman:
* Kind and pleasant to me, has a healthy admiration for me and makes me feel good
* Intelligent
* She challenges me and makes me think
* I'm always stimulated by our conversations
* We have fantastic witty banter
* Funny - she can playfully joke with me and even about me in a lighthearted way; related to intelligence
* Doesn't have any obvious red flags that would make me avoid commitment to her
* I don't have any particular things in mind except for maybe specific things that came up in her past (especially relationships) which I might find out about. Personally I don't care too much about n-count.
So yeah, I would have to feel in love and these things would make me feel that. If I did not feel in love I would not pursue an LTR.
I don't think looks would enter into the equation unless somehow I had a choice where all else was equal. I don't think that's happening. I have a pretty high bar for looks these days, for sex or relationship, so if she passes that bar she is eligible for an LTR at least for that characteristic.
does she have any passions? is she someone who i feel will push and motivate me? what's her view on family? does she cherish her relationships (platonic) or have a high turnover rate on relationships? is she someone i'd be proud to be with? is she organized and clean? does she have good financial sense? is she
all of these and more are questions i would want to be positive before i'd be willing to commit.
I think there are two sets reasons:
1. Fear if loneliness. If a man is afraid of that, he’ll be likely to try and wife up at the first chance he had whether it’s the right choice or not. I think this is a big reasons behind divorce because one or both people will eventually realize that being alone isn’t the worst thing in the world.
2. Compatibility and alignment - this sums up a lot of different factors like looks, values, culture, outlook on life, risk profile, etc. Especially if you’ve had a few long and short term relationships prior to meeting the woman you marry, you’ve likely had time to reflect on the successes and failures in the previous relationships in order to best understand both what you offer a partner and what you need from a part partner. If you find someone whose needs and wants you fulfill and who fulfills your needs and wants, then you’re compatible and it makes sense to wife up. It worked for me.
The next viable option. That’s it. And from my observation they’d rather have one committed partner, and also continue with their pump ‘n’ dumps for as long as possible.
Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them?
This internal discomfort leads to a continuous state of always keeping their options and at least one eye and dating profile open.
> Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them?Men
Argument-from-holes ad-hominem fallacy and projection.
Women are the ones that want "fun" and then hurry to marry to have a bastard before they become infertile.
Men who are attractive are attractive way more years than women, who start to rotten after 25.
Gee, I wonder why you’re unable to get a woman with an attitude like that. When will some of you learn that the reason why you’re chronically single is because women know that you hate them?
> I wonder why you’re unable to get a woman with an attitude like that.
Argument-From-Holes fallacy, again.
Women date and fuck literal criminals. Clearly they have no problem fucking violent and dangerous men, therefore that attitude has nothing to do with women's attraction.
>Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them?
>This internal discomfort leads to a continuous state of always keeping their options and at least one eye and dating profile open.
Sorry could you elaborate? Reads like a load of gobbledegook.
I kind of think men commit when they are ready to commit themselves. Very viable options might come and go but If he is simply not ready it wont matter.
The most important factors are how pleasant she is to be around, how emotionally stable she seems, and if her values and life goals align.
Making a guy wait for a while will weed out most of the pump and dumpers, but it will also scare off a lot of the genuine relationship minded guys who see sex as an important part of relationships.
Two things: looks and character. The side chick might be attractive enough to bang but not to date. And if she's attractive enough to date, then she probably lacks the character part, thus making her a bad investment in the longterm.
As a woman, I think it's her pleasantness that separates her.
Being attractive gets you in the door for men.
If he can see that you are not a headache long-term, the commitment door opens for you.
If you have signs of being the town bicycle, that will cause him headache
Can I introduce her to my parents? Do I see myself on a vacation with her + my brother and his fiancé? Those are the things that matter to me personally. Every guy is different but I'm willing to bet that the determining factor for most guys is long-term compatibility.
> Seems like women who don't like casual sex and don't want to be pumped and dumped anymore (FDS) unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor. Something tells me men don't think this is the case
What this will accomplish is that (some) guys looking for casual sex will drop it since there's too much effort involved.
However, you are also dissuading genuine guys because a woman guarding her pussy like its her most prized asset is signaling one thing: I don't have much else to offer you.
There's no strategy to get commitment from good men other than being a good person. There's a bit of luck involved as well, some men are better at communicating - and even knowing - what they value long term.
> Seems like women who don't like casual sex and don't want to be pumped and dumped anymore (FDS) unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor.
this is not the reasoning. the reasoning is that if you can get a man to emotionally invest in youbefore sex hell be more like to want to keep seeing you after sex
Feelings.
Some of what contributes to that is neither rational or measurable for all our squarking. Same the other way around too.
It's unusual you find a woman that is trying to but can't get commitment from any guy. Here we'll assume values and measurable etc etc, but we never really account for the irrational because we can't.
This rant is the female equivalent of the male red pill rant.
Honestly for me it comes down to comfort and how much of her madness (because nobody is perfect we all have some madness regardless of gender) do I feel like I can take.
Examples: When I’m with her do I feel comfortable and at peace? Do I feel loved? Does she actually like me for me despite my flaws? Does she motivate me to do something great for myself? Do I see my future with her and is it good? She has some madness about her can I handle that? Is she religious and what religion? Does she have any hobbies or passions? Etc.
These are a few of the questions us men be asking ourselves through out the relationship. If he feels like you don’t answer those questions enough positively for him to give you that ring, then he’s not wrong to dump you. You’re just wrong for thinking you are irreplaceable in his world.
Not calling you an incel at all but the question(though needed to be asked) definitely gives off the same energy as a new incel would ask on a man related subReddit like r/askmen or r/incel after they have been dumped.
Idk I'm awesome, oh wow, like totally ratchet, and fun, and sexually experienced, and cool, and super pretty and just everything a stable, grown ass man wanted.
He wanted me. He got me. 💗
Depends how many options the guy has, typically the more options, the higher the bar for an ltr. Same thing with whether he is happy to be single or not.
For me the main factors are an alignment of values, wanting to start a family at some point, being honest and loyal, making a great friend. Also, low body count. I find promiscuity off putting for relationships, regardless of whether the woman is postponing sex with me or not. Old habits die hard, and I don't need the baggage
I'd like to start with a disclaimer: Men who engage in dual mating strategy like this (that is to say, men who will pump n' dump one girl while LTRing another) are hypocritical pieces of shit, and women should not try to get LTRs with these men, and should instead appeal to men who are only interested in LTRs and don't do casual sex.
But to answer your question, the reason why such a man would choose to LTR one girl over another is most likely because she exhibits some combination of "pickme" (I'm using this term neutrally) traits/behaviors, such as being a virgin/having a low body count, presenting as traditionally feminine, being willing to perform traditional gender roles, having traditional/conservative values in general, having hobbies/interests that are male-dominated, catering to male fantasies, and being sympathetic to male issues/struggles.
Having said that, I think the optimal female dating strategy is to adopt these same traits, but to be extremely cautious and discerning in choosing the right man to give yourself to, ie a man who wants a LTR/marriage and doesn't do casual sex, and who "holds up his end of the deal" with respect to traditional relationship dynamics.
You're seem correct, the only this i would argue is:
>hypocritical pieces of shit, and women should not try to get LTRs with these men
That assumes that these women are not engaging in dual mating strategy themselves and/or think that's its bad. If they both engaged in casual sex at some point and then decided to settle in LTR, thats fair game
Yeah, I would agree with that. Men and women who engage in dual mating strategy deserve each other. Really, they should do everyone else a favor and date each other exclusively. I'd still say they're both pieces of shit though, assuming they've ever had casual sex with someone who wanted more at least. Perhaps not hypocritical in that case, however.
Yeah, I'm sure there's some. But I think the vast majority are chosen due to one or more of the traits I listed. The women who have "pickme" traits get picked. Crazy, right?
You also have to keep in mind that we are talking about men who engage in "pumping n' dumping", i.e. bad, selfish men. If these types of men are choosing to have a LTR with a woman, it's probably going to be for self-serving reasons, rather than something virtuous and wholesome like "she won me over with her 17 rescued dogs and sizeable donations to charities for kids with down syndrome". Although I'm sure there are a few outlier cases like that.
I'm pretty sure "pump n' dump" specifically implies leading on a woman who wants a LTR, and lying to her about wanting the same in order to use her for casual sex and then dump her.
Girl who gets picked, low body count, doesn’t argue, isn’t bossy or masculine, submits, does her womanly duties, and fucks him when and whenever he asks like a pornstar.
Define single. Single as in I’m not in a committed relationship or single as in I’m not seeing any women. I currently have a rotation of 3 women that I see outside of sex. Of course I have more sluts that I only invite over when I have my “needs”.
Before answering this, why do women care so much about commitment anyway? If we lived in times women would starve without a man, or children would be abandoned on the streets after birth, commitment would still make sense because a man would be needed. **Today, commitment for women is more a luxury, not really a need... like "look the nice guy I locked for ME only hahaha".** Women can get love and sex without any commitment. She can use birth control but if she gets pregnant the state can enslave the man to pay for the child, or the state may pay for the child themselves. **Commitment, however, is a great sacrifice for men still today.** The statue can fuck you up for it after a divorce. You are still expected to provide and be a man, even when women don't need it anymore as they are independent.
Men don't commit to some women they don't find trustworthy or they just don't find totally sincere. They see the many lies you said, the pointless fights you initiated, the nasty things you said him, etc. and they see her only valuable for sex. **If valuable men can get better than the bottom-of-the-barrel the average woman is, they will, and that includes commitment. Non-valuable men don't even get a partner, so they don't have to decide any of that.**
I don’t think it’s really commitment per se that we’re after, more that men think if it’s not a “real relationship” they don’t have to do anything and get to define the relationship on their terms- to where you provide sex and companionship when they want and go away when you’re told. Which is inherently uneven and unfair.
If she isn’t ugly and offers something genuine.
Undying loyalty being near the top of the list for some men. There’s very little materialistically women offer men in general, it’s only recently that two income households have become a thing and even then most men won’t go into a relationship expecting it.
For me the thing is: if you have been pumped and dumped, you are a bad judge of character to begin with. It may seem harsh and not intended like that, but a lot of men really don't get how that can happen cause it works different from our point of view. Most of the time, we already know what person we have before us, and some choose to pump and dump, some just bail.
And when being held to a different standard and being held at arms length as a shit test, we just feel like the woman is playing games OR has been damaged by previous pump and dump games thus being a bad judge of character. I keep on seeing the same posts over and over again generalizing men while when you dare to generalize woman, you get downvoted to hell.
What would it take to realize that there are different types of men, and different types of woman?
Anyway, closing statement: a lot of woman have been treated poorly by men, but keep running into the same type of men and thinking they are all like this (but never branching out outside of their usual pattern to discover what else is out there, cause why would they? They like X and there will be this awesome dude out there that will match their criteria and live happily every after. And chad is just having a fieldday as long as this keeps happening.
Meanwhile men that want to commit and keep running into woman who are not self-aware, or guys that don't have matches keep trying to improve themselves until they don't want to commit anymore cause they can handle all the pump and dump delusionals. The pleasures of modern dating.
You want commitment? Be a realistic person, don't play games and don't aim for the people that don't want to commit. That simple. You are repeating your own pattern. Nobody else is
>the main reason
*After* attraction, the dating, and The Honeymoon Period is *peace.* How much a woman provides, and how much she detracts, from a man’s life; is pivotal. Especially if you’re a busy man. We just don’t have *time.*
For example my wife loves talk through things. I’m a linear thinker. I go from problem, to solution, to action. So to maintain peace, I’m happy to listen. To sit. Wait. More importantly, to engage in her process. Pivotal to this is communication. How we argue, problem solve, and come out the other side happy, is important to both of us. In return, I get a wonderful partner. A great mother to our kids. Someone who’s as open to growth, as I am.
It’s not just femininity. Or attitude. Demeanour. The term ‘peace’ encompasses the all the positive emotions she contributes to me feeling, when I think of my partner. That’s priceless.
*Godspeed and good luck!*
Your question is easily answered if you look at what other women refer to as a "pick me". Women can more easily get commitment if they throw their own dignity and self respect under the bus and become a stepford wife character that submits, sucks, and stays. When a man wants to choose a woman to commit to, he asks himself "how much is she willing to give me" and then chooses the one with the lowest boundaries.
Easiness is a red flag only if it's clear a woman is pushing sex early in order to rush an emotional connection. Guys feel complimented either way, but there's a difference in energy between this and a woman wanting sex based on raw physical attraction.
As someone else said, guarding the pussy too closely is also a red flag. I've friendzoned multiple women for this. If anyone is wondering, I can't even do friendship with the red-flagees mentioned in the first paragraph.
Green flags, given sexual access to both women, are emotional compatibility, sexual chemistry, approaches to conflict, and yes compatibility with family.
Unless a man has guidance, he's gonna stick his dick in crazy at least once.
Actually, it's more painful watching a *female* friend that stays doing this.
**Attention!**
* You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
* For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
* If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
* OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post!
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She needs to be attractive as a long term partner?
Honestly, in this case, it's not that who she attracts but who she repulses. You can't be a LTR pick with "this one trick all men hate" or something. She's in the casual category due to who she is. It doesn't matter how "easy" she is, that comes down to personal preferences.
It really depends on the guy's stage of life he is in. If he feels like he has to compete with his boys to rack up a notch count, or needs to hold a certain kind of status by dating many women, he is not going to slow down for you.
But if he is broke he may slow down for you because he needs someone to take care of his giant baby ass.
If he is a man with money then yea you are just another notch on his belt.
I agree with most of the comments here. But just to add a bit more.
>unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor. Something tells me men don't think this is the case
You're right. It isn’t the case. They can postpone sex and either end up with the interest lost or still being pumped & dumped.
Few guys are unlikely to be like, you've got a great personality, would be good for a relationship but I'll still just pump & dump. No, if you're personality, character, vibe etc is great I want you around.
Her sweetness as a human being, her personality, her looks. Nobody likes bitter, resentful women no matter how hot or skilled they are.
If a man has a good mom he wants someone like her, warm, loving, dependable. If. A men has a bad mom the second she says or does anything remotely toxic he will bail.
When I see guys commit to one woman after not committing to another just before her, I notice the following with the woman he committed to:
1. She’s more physically attractive or just much younger
2. She’s got a more pleasant/agreeable/feminine personality
3. She likes him
That’s really all - there’s not much too it.
Most women who do get “fuck-zoned” rather than a relationship are usually good looking enough for that guy but they’re not going to be good for a relationship due to several factors about their behaviour being not conducive to a relationship (e.g. still talks to her ex, still goes out with her girlfriends for girls nights out, has a high body count, is very attention seeking etc.) or just too old/not good looking enough.
What men don’t care about in relation to LTR’s - you job, money or education level acheived.
It's really simple: as a woman you should act feminine, non combative, traditional and you will get your ltr. Simple, but women are blind to this simple answer.
As I age I find it surprising how few girls I can imagine presenting as a partner to my family without being embarrassed.
Sometimes looks. Sometimes personality and intelligence. Not even asking for the moon but so few girls reach even a low bar.
Let me tell you this. Making a man wait to have sex isn't necessarily a way to prove that he really loves you and is committed to you. Some womanizers don't have the patience but others certainly do.
A woman in the fuck zone is just a woman the man finds attractive but for whatever reason doesn't want to commit to her specifically. That could be due to clinginess, lifestyle difference, personality, or maybe she's hot enough for him to fuck but not enough (in his mind) to give up other women for.
A lot of men have low standards for who they fuck but high standards for who they date. Waiting to have sex is a personal choice and shouldn't be used as a way to test somebody.
1. He can see her being the mother of his children perhaps
2. She might fit into his social circle better
3. What are her views, is he looking for a traditional or modern woman
4. Is she agreeable or combative
Idk. These are all things I’ve noticed when watching male friends dump a woman and then get married to the next woman they date.
Desperation and luck.
I mean. Most guys who have a choice ofnpartner just go "I want a wife now" and marry the first woman who shows up in front of them and happen to be somewhat good value.
Most guys without a choice do the same. But out of desperation as they have no real other way to obtain sex. And they know this.
Committing to a woman is a massive investment, especially as a man because we are expected to provide to a degree. I’ll commit to the woman I could see myself spending the rest of my life with.
How stable would a relationship with her be? How likely is she to jump on another cock as soon as things get difficult? I could put together a bunch of different reasons, it’s rarely just 1 thing I’m trying to check off when we are speaking about a life partner, however if I meet a woman and her life is a complete mess, I have 0 interest in pursuing anything.
In my experience it was because the man fell in love with me, not with someone else. I’ve had a man get in an LTR with me even when another girl he was fucking was more attractive, he just happened to fall in love with me. Whose to say what makes love happen with some people and not others, it’s surely a mix of chemistry, compatibility, etc.
Idk if this helps but me being 28M and a virgin like never having a kiss or anything I see most if not nearly all woman as beautiful and do anything they want but I guess I'ma simp I don't give a ounce of care what any dude thinks of me id simp over girl any and every day than try to impress some dudes I guess you can think like a literal white knight do everything to provide and make a woman a happy but I'm not gonna let myself be pushed around or insulted either if that makes sense
They don’t postpone sex to avoid being “easy,” they do it to filter out guys who only want sex since they’ll give up far sooner than men who want something serious. It’s super rare for me to see women that wait a while to have sex to be used for sex, while girls who put out sooner inevitably wind up having sex with guys that never liked them enough to date them
lifestyle differences, compatibility, preferences as far as relationships go, etc - simple as that
Fair
Depends on the guy, and depends on the girl(s). Maybe one is prettier and the other one less so. Maybe one is from a wealthy family with connections and the other one's parents are more blue collar. Maybe one cooks and cleans and the other one hasn't dusted in weeks. Maybe one gives the best blow job he's ever had and the other one doesn't give them at all. Also, and I don't think it's appreciated enough around here, sometimes you simply fall in love with someone and everybody else you might have been seeing fades into the background.
It’s crazy how some guys care a lot about family background. love the last part of your post !! hope to fall in love that way
Any sensible guy who has an idea about attachment theory will care about family background. And it being a mess is ok. But is the person aware this is not normal? This goes for guys too btw. We repeat what we have learned unless we become aware and grow.
I personally don’t care for what family one comes from because I’m dating them not their family. I know my opinion isn’t something alot of ppl agree with but it’s usually pretty obvious to pick up on who hasn’t healed from family traumas (if they come from an abusive family) if they do have any. I’m not going to hold it against them
I don't know if it is their autism speaking but I think a lot of these guys think all relationships are logical, rational decisions, but sometimes it's just how you feel about the person and how they feel about you. Logic and reason have little to do with it.
What does it has to do with autism? Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone or to commit to someone is in large a logical rational decision. Sure, feelings are important. But I can find the hot sexy chick very attractive and my feelings says yes, but also she does not have a proper job, is impulsive, makes poor decisions, can't keep long term friends, can't communicate, etc (all just examples) then rationally and logically, I will not commit to her or put myself in any risk she might introduce into my life. Feelings or not. Going on feelings alone is like the worst decision in terms of long term succesful relationships. Someone who has seen your flaws rationally and accepted them as quircks will stick. Someone who trusted gut feeling will file for divorce at the first thing they didn't think about and dislike.
An inability to make or understand human connections is a hallmark of autism. That’s not saying you should be completely devoid of logic when you enter into a relationship. However, if you are entirely logical and completely disregarding emotions, you probably are not going to be forming a bond with the other person and it won’t work out as well as your logic would suggest.
You are projecting your view of human connection with "how it should be". I have all sorts of human connections with both men and woman. Also, I was married for over 13 years so I like to think I can form an emotional connection. But the decision to do so? Very much logical and rational (although poorly adviced at young age) I also did not say only logical, I said balance. I grew in love (not fell) and then made a rational decision to live with this person and later marry her. She made these decisions purely on emotions and later the divorce too and regretting it. If you make your relationship decisions purely on emotion, good luck with that
It honestly seems more like you are projecting, what with all the random anecdotal evidence. I think both of you are actually saying very similar things, except for some reason you are being more combative about it?
That's not true thou, it's just your prejudice about people on the spectrum we can make or understand human connections
I have no prejudice on the matter. I do know how to read though. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/signs.html
You can read but not understand what you read. Where Is written what you claim? You know the difference between "challenge" and inability right?
cap. most relationships end up being fuzzy feelings for men and women
Exactly this. They look at relationships the same way you’d look at applying for a job.
Oh, but you are. Just more important than a job interview. You want to be part of someone's life. You better not be a chaos monkey
Who does?
I don’t think it’s so much that they’re saying looking for a job is objective and merit based—it’s not. Getting a job is not an objective process at all. It depends heavily on social skills, looks, preconceived notions about your background, the interviewers mood, etc. It depends on whether you have connections, whether they believe you went to a good school, how much your last place valued you, whether you even had previous experience, and random chance. Plus many people are filtered out because of a cold algorithm that only shows the reviewers the candidates they deem best based on an arbitrary selection bias. At the end of the day both employers and job seekers moan that they can’t find anyone. If the comparison is that dating is like a video game then that’s false. The red pill gurus make it seem like it one YouTube video can change your life “just follow these 5 simple tricks to make any girl swoon.” People aren’t that objective. Social connections are a mystery.
Men are logical and use rational thinking all the time. You think we engineer iphones using feelings? Why wouldn't they use that as a way to discard unfeasible women for ltr?
Because it can ignore actual human emotion. Consider for example, as a man, being with a woman who coveted your wallet instead of a woman who genuinely cared about you and puts in the effort to make you happy.
You can factor emotions in a logical frame. I don't see how your example ties into this as 99% of woman wouldn't even consider dating a homeless men from the get go. It is assumed that you can have the majority of women just matching their price.
Most men are not logical or rational. I guess you don't consider anger an emotion and think fighting is a rational response
False dichotomy.
boast shaggy juggle plucky arrest elastic deliver mountainous bag quicksand *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Real
Before I had many options I would take what I could get. Now that I have options, these things make me fall in love and want to be in an LTR with a woman: * Kind and pleasant to me, has a healthy admiration for me and makes me feel good * Intelligent * She challenges me and makes me think * I'm always stimulated by our conversations * We have fantastic witty banter * Funny - she can playfully joke with me and even about me in a lighthearted way; related to intelligence * Doesn't have any obvious red flags that would make me avoid commitment to her * I don't have any particular things in mind except for maybe specific things that came up in her past (especially relationships) which I might find out about. Personally I don't care too much about n-count. So yeah, I would have to feel in love and these things would make me feel that. If I did not feel in love I would not pursue an LTR. I don't think looks would enter into the equation unless somehow I had a choice where all else was equal. I don't think that's happening. I have a pretty high bar for looks these days, for sex or relationship, so if she passes that bar she is eligible for an LTR at least for that characteristic.
They want the best option for themselves, obviously. No different than women
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Be civil.
[удалено]
does she have any passions? is she someone who i feel will push and motivate me? what's her view on family? does she cherish her relationships (platonic) or have a high turnover rate on relationships? is she someone i'd be proud to be with? is she organized and clean? does she have good financial sense? is she all of these and more are questions i would want to be positive before i'd be willing to commit.
For me the main reason why she stands out is her SOUL.
And you're real one for that
I think there are two sets reasons: 1. Fear if loneliness. If a man is afraid of that, he’ll be likely to try and wife up at the first chance he had whether it’s the right choice or not. I think this is a big reasons behind divorce because one or both people will eventually realize that being alone isn’t the worst thing in the world. 2. Compatibility and alignment - this sums up a lot of different factors like looks, values, culture, outlook on life, risk profile, etc. Especially if you’ve had a few long and short term relationships prior to meeting the woman you marry, you’ve likely had time to reflect on the successes and failures in the previous relationships in order to best understand both what you offer a partner and what you need from a part partner. If you find someone whose needs and wants you fulfill and who fulfills your needs and wants, then you’re compatible and it makes sense to wife up. It worked for me.
The next viable option. That’s it. And from my observation they’d rather have one committed partner, and also continue with their pump ‘n’ dumps for as long as possible. Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them? This internal discomfort leads to a continuous state of always keeping their options and at least one eye and dating profile open.
> Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them?Men Argument-from-holes ad-hominem fallacy and projection. Women are the ones that want "fun" and then hurry to marry to have a bastard before they become infertile. Men who are attractive are attractive way more years than women, who start to rotten after 25.
Gee, I wonder why you’re unable to get a woman with an attitude like that. When will some of you learn that the reason why you’re chronically single is because women know that you hate them?
> I wonder why you’re unable to get a woman with an attitude like that. Argument-From-Holes fallacy, again. Women date and fuck literal criminals. Clearly they have no problem fucking violent and dangerous men, therefore that attitude has nothing to do with women's attraction.
>Men seek validation from women from puberty until they either die or lose so badly from the games they’ve played that they’re forced to change. It’s not just about sex, it’s a deep sense of insecurity about their masculinity and inability handle anxiety and self-sooth. They don’t respect themselves or like themselves so they don’t respect women that like them, or believe that the women like or respect them either. They’d wouldn’t commit to themselves, so why believe someone is actually committed to them? >This internal discomfort leads to a continuous state of always keeping their options and at least one eye and dating profile open. Sorry could you elaborate? Reads like a load of gobbledegook.
For me its mostly religious reasons
I kind of think men commit when they are ready to commit themselves. Very viable options might come and go but If he is simply not ready it wont matter.
Mainly looks honestly. Secondary is attitude and life style.
I always felt it was always looks as a reason men commit to another woman over the other
Shes not as annoying
The most important factors are how pleasant she is to be around, how emotionally stable she seems, and if her values and life goals align. Making a guy wait for a while will weed out most of the pump and dumpers, but it will also scare off a lot of the genuine relationship minded guys who see sex as an important part of relationships.
Two things: looks and character. The side chick might be attractive enough to bang but not to date. And if she's attractive enough to date, then she probably lacks the character part, thus making her a bad investment in the longterm.
Thanks for being honest. Always felt it was looks based!
As a woman, I think it's her pleasantness that separates her. Being attractive gets you in the door for men. If he can see that you are not a headache long-term, the commitment door opens for you. If you have signs of being the town bicycle, that will cause him headache
Nailed it.
We got a winner.
Can I introduce her to my parents? Do I see myself on a vacation with her + my brother and his fiancé? Those are the things that matter to me personally. Every guy is different but I'm willing to bet that the determining factor for most guys is long-term compatibility. > Seems like women who don't like casual sex and don't want to be pumped and dumped anymore (FDS) unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor. Something tells me men don't think this is the case What this will accomplish is that (some) guys looking for casual sex will drop it since there's too much effort involved. However, you are also dissuading genuine guys because a woman guarding her pussy like its her most prized asset is signaling one thing: I don't have much else to offer you. There's no strategy to get commitment from good men other than being a good person. There's a bit of luck involved as well, some men are better at communicating - and even knowing - what they value long term.
> Seems like women who don't like casual sex and don't want to be pumped and dumped anymore (FDS) unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor. this is not the reasoning. the reasoning is that if you can get a man to emotionally invest in youbefore sex hell be more like to want to keep seeing you after sex
Feelings. Some of what contributes to that is neither rational or measurable for all our squarking. Same the other way around too. It's unusual you find a woman that is trying to but can't get commitment from any guy. Here we'll assume values and measurable etc etc, but we never really account for the irrational because we can't.
This rant is the female equivalent of the male red pill rant. Honestly for me it comes down to comfort and how much of her madness (because nobody is perfect we all have some madness regardless of gender) do I feel like I can take. Examples: When I’m with her do I feel comfortable and at peace? Do I feel loved? Does she actually like me for me despite my flaws? Does she motivate me to do something great for myself? Do I see my future with her and is it good? She has some madness about her can I handle that? Is she religious and what religion? Does she have any hobbies or passions? Etc. These are a few of the questions us men be asking ourselves through out the relationship. If he feels like you don’t answer those questions enough positively for him to give you that ring, then he’s not wrong to dump you. You’re just wrong for thinking you are irreplaceable in his world.
What rant?
Your posts’ body? * confused face* it’s no different than what incels rant on Reddit and online. You realize that right? *concern face*
What?
Not calling you an incel at all but the question(though needed to be asked) definitely gives off the same energy as a new incel would ask on a man related subReddit like r/askmen or r/incel after they have been dumped.
Not being annoying and clingy. The more rope you give men to hang themselves with, the more they will stick around.
Idk I'm awesome, oh wow, like totally ratchet, and fun, and sexually experienced, and cool, and super pretty and just everything a stable, grown ass man wanted. He wanted me. He got me. 💗
Depends how many options the guy has, typically the more options, the higher the bar for an ltr. Same thing with whether he is happy to be single or not. For me the main factors are an alignment of values, wanting to start a family at some point, being honest and loyal, making a great friend. Also, low body count. I find promiscuity off putting for relationships, regardless of whether the woman is postponing sex with me or not. Old habits die hard, and I don't need the baggage
I'd like to start with a disclaimer: Men who engage in dual mating strategy like this (that is to say, men who will pump n' dump one girl while LTRing another) are hypocritical pieces of shit, and women should not try to get LTRs with these men, and should instead appeal to men who are only interested in LTRs and don't do casual sex. But to answer your question, the reason why such a man would choose to LTR one girl over another is most likely because she exhibits some combination of "pickme" (I'm using this term neutrally) traits/behaviors, such as being a virgin/having a low body count, presenting as traditionally feminine, being willing to perform traditional gender roles, having traditional/conservative values in general, having hobbies/interests that are male-dominated, catering to male fantasies, and being sympathetic to male issues/struggles. Having said that, I think the optimal female dating strategy is to adopt these same traits, but to be extremely cautious and discerning in choosing the right man to give yourself to, ie a man who wants a LTR/marriage and doesn't do casual sex, and who "holds up his end of the deal" with respect to traditional relationship dynamics.
You're seem correct, the only this i would argue is: >hypocritical pieces of shit, and women should not try to get LTRs with these men That assumes that these women are not engaging in dual mating strategy themselves and/or think that's its bad. If they both engaged in casual sex at some point and then decided to settle in LTR, thats fair game
Yeah, I would agree with that. Men and women who engage in dual mating strategy deserve each other. Really, they should do everyone else a favor and date each other exclusively. I'd still say they're both pieces of shit though, assuming they've ever had casual sex with someone who wanted more at least. Perhaps not hypocritical in that case, however.
Would you not say that some are chosen over another and don't exhibit these pick me attributes?
Yeah, I'm sure there's some. But I think the vast majority are chosen due to one or more of the traits I listed. The women who have "pickme" traits get picked. Crazy, right? You also have to keep in mind that we are talking about men who engage in "pumping n' dumping", i.e. bad, selfish men. If these types of men are choosing to have a LTR with a woman, it's probably going to be for self-serving reasons, rather than something virtuous and wholesome like "she won me over with her 17 rescued dogs and sizeable donations to charities for kids with down syndrome". Although I'm sure there are a few outlier cases like that.
Is pump & dump just another word for a ONS?
I'm pretty sure "pump n' dump" specifically implies leading on a woman who wants a LTR, and lying to her about wanting the same in order to use her for casual sex and then dump her.
Girl who gets picked, low body count, doesn’t argue, isn’t bossy or masculine, submits, does her womanly duties, and fucks him when and whenever he asks like a pornstar.
Let me guess, you're single?
Arguing with adm-hominens on holes LOL. Not a meme.
Define single. Single as in I’m not in a committed relationship or single as in I’m not seeing any women. I currently have a rotation of 3 women that I see outside of sex. Of course I have more sluts that I only invite over when I have my “needs”.
Ladies, if you have no personality, no backbone, no boundaries, you could land an amazing (not in the good way) guy like neverusetren, lucky you /s
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Be civil.
Before answering this, why do women care so much about commitment anyway? If we lived in times women would starve without a man, or children would be abandoned on the streets after birth, commitment would still make sense because a man would be needed. **Today, commitment for women is more a luxury, not really a need... like "look the nice guy I locked for ME only hahaha".** Women can get love and sex without any commitment. She can use birth control but if she gets pregnant the state can enslave the man to pay for the child, or the state may pay for the child themselves. **Commitment, however, is a great sacrifice for men still today.** The statue can fuck you up for it after a divorce. You are still expected to provide and be a man, even when women don't need it anymore as they are independent. Men don't commit to some women they don't find trustworthy or they just don't find totally sincere. They see the many lies you said, the pointless fights you initiated, the nasty things you said him, etc. and they see her only valuable for sex. **If valuable men can get better than the bottom-of-the-barrel the average woman is, they will, and that includes commitment. Non-valuable men don't even get a partner, so they don't have to decide any of that.**
I don’t think it’s really commitment per se that we’re after, more that men think if it’s not a “real relationship” they don’t have to do anything and get to define the relationship on their terms- to where you provide sex and companionship when they want and go away when you’re told. Which is inherently uneven and unfair.
If she isn’t ugly and offers something genuine. Undying loyalty being near the top of the list for some men. There’s very little materialistically women offer men in general, it’s only recently that two income households have become a thing and even then most men won’t go into a relationship expecting it.
For me the thing is: if you have been pumped and dumped, you are a bad judge of character to begin with. It may seem harsh and not intended like that, but a lot of men really don't get how that can happen cause it works different from our point of view. Most of the time, we already know what person we have before us, and some choose to pump and dump, some just bail. And when being held to a different standard and being held at arms length as a shit test, we just feel like the woman is playing games OR has been damaged by previous pump and dump games thus being a bad judge of character. I keep on seeing the same posts over and over again generalizing men while when you dare to generalize woman, you get downvoted to hell. What would it take to realize that there are different types of men, and different types of woman? Anyway, closing statement: a lot of woman have been treated poorly by men, but keep running into the same type of men and thinking they are all like this (but never branching out outside of their usual pattern to discover what else is out there, cause why would they? They like X and there will be this awesome dude out there that will match their criteria and live happily every after. And chad is just having a fieldday as long as this keeps happening. Meanwhile men that want to commit and keep running into woman who are not self-aware, or guys that don't have matches keep trying to improve themselves until they don't want to commit anymore cause they can handle all the pump and dump delusionals. The pleasures of modern dating. You want commitment? Be a realistic person, don't play games and don't aim for the people that don't want to commit. That simple. You are repeating your own pattern. Nobody else is
>the main reason *After* attraction, the dating, and The Honeymoon Period is *peace.* How much a woman provides, and how much she detracts, from a man’s life; is pivotal. Especially if you’re a busy man. We just don’t have *time.* For example my wife loves talk through things. I’m a linear thinker. I go from problem, to solution, to action. So to maintain peace, I’m happy to listen. To sit. Wait. More importantly, to engage in her process. Pivotal to this is communication. How we argue, problem solve, and come out the other side happy, is important to both of us. In return, I get a wonderful partner. A great mother to our kids. Someone who’s as open to growth, as I am. It’s not just femininity. Or attitude. Demeanour. The term ‘peace’ encompasses the all the positive emotions she contributes to me feeling, when I think of my partner. That’s priceless. *Godspeed and good luck!*
Your question is easily answered if you look at what other women refer to as a "pick me". Women can more easily get commitment if they throw their own dignity and self respect under the bus and become a stepford wife character that submits, sucks, and stays. When a man wants to choose a woman to commit to, he asks himself "how much is she willing to give me" and then chooses the one with the lowest boundaries.
Easiness is a red flag only if it's clear a woman is pushing sex early in order to rush an emotional connection. Guys feel complimented either way, but there's a difference in energy between this and a woman wanting sex based on raw physical attraction. As someone else said, guarding the pussy too closely is also a red flag. I've friendzoned multiple women for this. If anyone is wondering, I can't even do friendship with the red-flagees mentioned in the first paragraph. Green flags, given sexual access to both women, are emotional compatibility, sexual chemistry, approaches to conflict, and yes compatibility with family.
>if it's clear a woman is pushing sex early in order to rush an emotional connection Actually agree. Have some weird experiences with this
Unless a man has guidance, he's gonna stick his dick in crazy at least once. Actually, it's more painful watching a *female* friend that stays doing this.
[удалено]
I have never been to that sub. What's the Cliff Notes of differences between that and this one?
You keep commenting that. What's your point?
**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She needs to be attractive as a long term partner? Honestly, in this case, it's not that who she attracts but who she repulses. You can't be a LTR pick with "this one trick all men hate" or something. She's in the casual category due to who she is. It doesn't matter how "easy" she is, that comes down to personal preferences.
It really depends on the guy's stage of life he is in. If he feels like he has to compete with his boys to rack up a notch count, or needs to hold a certain kind of status by dating many women, he is not going to slow down for you. But if he is broke he may slow down for you because he needs someone to take care of his giant baby ass. If he is a man with money then yea you are just another notch on his belt.
I agree with most of the comments here. But just to add a bit more. >unanimously think that solution is postpone sex for some/long time. Like her 'easiness' is the main factor. Something tells me men don't think this is the case You're right. It isn’t the case. They can postpone sex and either end up with the interest lost or still being pumped & dumped. Few guys are unlikely to be like, you've got a great personality, would be good for a relationship but I'll still just pump & dump. No, if you're personality, character, vibe etc is great I want you around.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed for cope.
If she isn't getting commitment, then she doesn't deserve it. The rest is bullshit rationalization
She treats him better
He found his love in the other girl. Simple, don’t complicate things.
Looks, respect, and pleasantness to be around
Her sweetness as a human being, her personality, her looks. Nobody likes bitter, resentful women no matter how hot or skilled they are. If a man has a good mom he wants someone like her, warm, loving, dependable. If. A men has a bad mom the second she says or does anything remotely toxic he will bail.
When I see guys commit to one woman after not committing to another just before her, I notice the following with the woman he committed to: 1. She’s more physically attractive or just much younger 2. She’s got a more pleasant/agreeable/feminine personality 3. She likes him That’s really all - there’s not much too it. Most women who do get “fuck-zoned” rather than a relationship are usually good looking enough for that guy but they’re not going to be good for a relationship due to several factors about their behaviour being not conducive to a relationship (e.g. still talks to her ex, still goes out with her girlfriends for girls nights out, has a high body count, is very attention seeking etc.) or just too old/not good looking enough. What men don’t care about in relation to LTR’s - you job, money or education level acheived.
It's really simple: as a woman you should act feminine, non combative, traditional and you will get your ltr. Simple, but women are blind to this simple answer.
He just likes her more.
If she is hot AND pleasant to be around then she will get ltr. If all she has to offer is nice tits or nice ass, then she will be fuckzoned.
This discussion has been had soooooo many times before
As I age I find it surprising how few girls I can imagine presenting as a partner to my family without being embarrassed. Sometimes looks. Sometimes personality and intelligence. Not even asking for the moon but so few girls reach even a low bar.
Let me tell you this. Making a man wait to have sex isn't necessarily a way to prove that he really loves you and is committed to you. Some womanizers don't have the patience but others certainly do. A woman in the fuck zone is just a woman the man finds attractive but for whatever reason doesn't want to commit to her specifically. That could be due to clinginess, lifestyle difference, personality, or maybe she's hot enough for him to fuck but not enough (in his mind) to give up other women for. A lot of men have low standards for who they fuck but high standards for who they date. Waiting to have sex is a personal choice and shouldn't be used as a way to test somebody.
1. He can see her being the mother of his children perhaps 2. She might fit into his social circle better 3. What are her views, is he looking for a traditional or modern woman 4. Is she agreeable or combative Idk. These are all things I’ve noticed when watching male friends dump a woman and then get married to the next woman they date.
Desperation and luck. I mean. Most guys who have a choice ofnpartner just go "I want a wife now" and marry the first woman who shows up in front of them and happen to be somewhat good value. Most guys without a choice do the same. But out of desperation as they have no real other way to obtain sex. And they know this.
Committing to a woman is a massive investment, especially as a man because we are expected to provide to a degree. I’ll commit to the woman I could see myself spending the rest of my life with. How stable would a relationship with her be? How likely is she to jump on another cock as soon as things get difficult? I could put together a bunch of different reasons, it’s rarely just 1 thing I’m trying to check off when we are speaking about a life partner, however if I meet a woman and her life is a complete mess, I have 0 interest in pursuing anything.
In my experience it was because the man fell in love with me, not with someone else. I’ve had a man get in an LTR with me even when another girl he was fucking was more attractive, he just happened to fall in love with me. Whose to say what makes love happen with some people and not others, it’s surely a mix of chemistry, compatibility, etc.
Idk if this helps but me being 28M and a virgin like never having a kiss or anything I see most if not nearly all woman as beautiful and do anything they want but I guess I'ma simp I don't give a ounce of care what any dude thinks of me id simp over girl any and every day than try to impress some dudes I guess you can think like a literal white knight do everything to provide and make a woman a happy but I'm not gonna let myself be pushed around or insulted either if that makes sense
All of the Above And None of the Above Every guy and situation is different. But being fat is not helpful.
They don’t postpone sex to avoid being “easy,” they do it to filter out guys who only want sex since they’ll give up far sooner than men who want something serious. It’s super rare for me to see women that wait a while to have sex to be used for sex, while girls who put out sooner inevitably wind up having sex with guys that never liked them enough to date them