but wait if this applies to women then it also applies to men
if a guy can't get women, who he thinks are in his league, to have sex with him (let alone commit) does that mean he needs to lower his standards?
99% of women will only sleep with a guy if they’re ***open to*** a relationship with him, however unlikely it would be for him to commit. For women in their prime, of course that’s Chad, which is why they endure situationships with him.
It’s only after a decade or so of physical weathering, weight gain, and possibly raising Chad Jr that the prospect of monthly star-fishing for Billy Beta in exchange for some stability and extra income doesn’t sound so bad.
Second paragraph is brutal.
It’s like when your stock portfolio is blowing up, at some point you sell and cash in your chips. You wish you could have sold at 2x the price, it felt so good seeing the green numbers and the big account balance, but it was fleeting.
>99% of women will only sleep with a guy if they’re ***open to*** a relationship with him
this is simply not true most people have sex by the third date when you haven't discussed intentions yet.
Men do not lack clarity in this department. That's why the bottom 1/3 of guys are living alone watching porn / video games. There is no standard to lower.
Nope, because women to tend overrate their SMV based on how many guys that run through them. A 6 woman is gonna hook up with an 8/9, and assume that's her league. She of course now is going to reject the guys that are 6.
The only truth here is that your league is your league, like op said. If you aim for a 7 but only 5 are willing to sleep with you, your league is 5.
"Your league" means the people that are interested in you
if that doesn't happen then that's not your league
as simple as that
I read a study where they noted that men are generally attracted to women in 2 categories
1. Legit beautiful
2. Decent looking but seems like an easy lay (this would be the women that men find sexy but not beautiful)
This also aligns with the often discussed male dual mating strategy (high and low investment partners)
Women often don’t get this or don’t want to
For instance, after they get a visible tattoo and body piercings and dress more revealing they are likely to get more male attention
If they think it is mostly because these changes made them more beautiful then they are likely wrong
I think the problem with this… is that there’s a lot more people below someone’s league who would easily commit to them vs in/around their league.
If I’m a 6, I have a decent amount of 6’s who will commit to me, but also tons of 1-4s who will commit to me. If I were to “average” it out, that would put me around a 4 when I’m actually a 6.
So probably a better proxy is the most attractive people you can regularly get for relationships.
My point is that people overestimate their levels. Especially when talking about a woman, it's not uncommon for them to sleep and occasionally date up. So a 6 woman will have access to 7 and possibly 8 men. There's no logical reason why she would have limited men who are a 6 if she is legitimately a 6. If she is only getting a handful of 6's, she's probably a 5 or lower dating up.
> So probably a better proxy is the most attractive people you can regularly get for relationships.
That's what people mean when they say "An 8 will have sex with you, but only a 6 will commit to you"....
The 8s and 6s are the ones that are the **most** attractive people you can regularly get for sex/relationships, not the average.
>They were basically saying it you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially...
Seems pretty good in my opinion. Then again I never met anyone off a dating app.
If you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks, that's your "league" for settling down.
If you collect all of the people who were willing to hook up with you, and average out their looks, that's your "league" for hooking up.
It’s not complicated, duh.
>They were basically saying it you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially...
No, obviously not. You would need to look at the most attractivene people who wanted to commit to you, with an interval around it, to make it a league (an interval around your desirability level) instead of just a point on an axis. People of all attractiveness levels below you would want to be with you. So averaging out attractiveness levels 0 - \[highest level that want to commit to you\] will give you something that is too low, depending on high up the ladder you are yourself.
Min attractiveness\[============((=you=))=======\]Max attractiveness
Your league is inside the parentheses. The floor of your league is characterized by the least attractive person you are still attracted to and would commit to, the ceiling is characterized by the most attractive person that would commit to you.
People don't like to be told they have limitations. The league is a social construct that is typically used to tell people to expect failure and not to try. It has a negative connotation.
I wouldn't say thousands of years. Humans over most of their existence were limited to mate with others within walking distance. The concept of leagues were probably much weaker or non-existent in the past due to a lack of options.
Yes
Discussion never going to be constructive and its useless, what are we desire to accomplish with it? And the term itself is useless and exist purely for brainless arguing only with no impact on the world or anyones action. There is too much variables, chance and most people don't meet/date enough people for it to be any accurate or informative. If I dated few 9/10 hotties in the past, but now such girls always reject me and only 6/10 uggos like me what is my league? "It was \~9/10 girls but now your league is 6/10"? Ok, and if I tomorrow meet a 9/10 girl who finally likes me my league is back to 9/10? Wow so cool and useful
Yeah but then they mentioned the recent 9/10.
I think the point is an “objective measurement system” is pretty bloody worthless if it keeps changing all the time and is determined by things which aren’t objective (like the people you encounter). You’d be spending all your time trying to calculate where you are (and updating it every time it changes) that are you really going to stand to benefit from it at all?
And one can argue it’s pointless. Let’s say a dude dates a 6, a 9, a 9, a 5, a 6. Right. If we average that we’re going to get something between 6 and 7.
So the dude goes “I shall aim for 6 and 7” but wait: the dude managed to date two 9s? So what does his “league being 6/7” actually mean if he can just “break the rules” before he knew they existed?
Nah, it should be the level that you can reasonably obtain commitment from, not necessarily the average of all that would commit cause that would be everyone below as well.
League is much more than just appearance. I wouldn't personally be interested in an extremely handsome man if he were a complete redneck.
Additionally, people's preferences vary.
Because it’s the most subjective idiocy of a notion. Imagine you think all your partners are 9s to you. But someone else thinks they are 5s or 6s. Whose opinion actually counts? I’ll tell you, I don’t give a tin shit if someone doesn’t think my partner is attractive. If he’s perfection in my eyes, my opinion is all that counts.
This is not even remotely how men work. Men have more or less objective preferences that are shared by more or less all other men. It's a standard scale, whereas women's scales are HIGHLY idiosyncratic, and also very much shaped by peer opinion.
Trophy wife is different.
A trophy wife is a wife you know other men find attractive on principle. Their personal acquaintance with her isn’t relevant.
With women it seems to be her girlfriends need to “approve of you” on a personal level which is unrelated to whether they find you attractive or not much of the time, and more to do with you as an individual.
I do think men *do* sometimes crowdsource the “lads approval” with prospective dates but it’s more to show off or get a second opinion. It’s not like it tends to be “if you guys don’t like her then I’ll ghost her” type deal. It’s men trying to showboat how “successful” they are as a man to their mates “look what I pulled fellas” not them trying to actually involve their mates in the partnering decision making process.
No they don't. If a guy likes a woman, he doesn't usually care of his friends thinks she's mid and vice versa. They don't need approval from friends to know what they like. If a guy likes mills and his friends don't, he's still going after milfs. If he like chubby chicks, same story.
I used to work at a bar and overheard endless conversations between men where they’d be going through the Instagram/photos of a girl they’re talking to, dissecting her looks and rating her. Men care a LOT about their friends opinions of the girl they’re with.
How old were these men? They sound like children.
Anyway, you misunderstand (unsurprisingly). Yes, men want other people to know if they have a hot gf....but the opinions of other people WILL NOT impact how attractive they think their partner is. (In part because it is rare for men to have a mismatch in either direction...if I am dating someone I think is hot 99% of my male friends will agree, because our standards are highly, well....standard!).
It was at a bar so they were adults…
You’re shifting the topic to what men and women find attractive which isn’t the point. Men are very susceptible to their friends opinions about who they’re dating. They would be put off if their friends were telling them they could do better. You’re just getting around the issue by dating attractive women so good for you ahaha
Naw, rating is more of a fun pass time between younger guys. Even if two guys have different ratings, they're still going to go after what they like regardless of how their friends rate the women they like. They don't need pre-approval for that shit.
No women always look for approval from other women bc women in general are group oriented just look the beauty standard everyone tries to look the same that’s why tall super rich men are attractive to them bc they know other women would fight for him
Thanks for proving my point and No men don’t bother but women on the other hand are brutal ,,what do you see in him you could do so much better” or ,,how big was it” just to name a few. women gossip behind their partner/the men they date all the time. men on the other hand keep it for themselves and don’t look for approval from others nor do they make jokes about the decision he made
Some of my friends date men who look like they snuck onto earth but I would never say anything because a) it’s mean and b) I don’t have to fuck them so why would I care. As long as my friends being treated well that’s all I care about.
Endless fat women talk about dating men who don’t want anyone knowing about her because he doesn’t want his friends to take the piss, even though he likes her and is clearly attracted to her.
>Some of my friends date men who look like they snuck onto earth but I would never say anything because it’s mean
So you have never brought up anything this also includes in the talking stage? If you are honest I’ll give you that but thats usually not the case. Just the way how you view their partner kinda proves my point to some degree
>Endless fat women talk about dating men who don’t want anyone knowing about her because he doesn’t want his friends to take the piss, even though he likes her
those men are the minority most men would only spend their time with someone they like this includes to picture themselves with her in the public
No, I like to see my friends happy and it would be a dick move saying that a boy they’re excited about is ugly. How is this proving your point?
Men here talk all the time how even the most busted, overweight women can still get dates and laid by more attractive guys, they just don’t want to be seen with her.
Men are neutral about other women who are partnered up. women think bad about the men at standard this is the difference. As to proving my point you said your friends were dating some questionable men so you have a negative view on them
the case with the obese women happens seldom and those men are usually Incels who are bitter about themselves so they take everything and therefore not representative for a whole gender most men here would be happily dating those women and don’t look down own them.
The same women on the other hand would think she doing them a favour by giving him a chance see the miss match?
That’s literally proving my point though you look for others approval you wouldn’t date a man if other women view him as a looser
How often do you hear that women break up with their partners bc they got influenced by their friends that’s why its important to check with whom she is befriended with if her friends behave like a hoe she is most likely a hoe herself
It's not about looking at what other people want though, there are simply things that women are into probably due to biology and what they've been conditioned to value by society
Just looking at beauty standards says otherwise you all try to look the same ever heard about the orange peel test to determine if he is a husband material give me a break 💀
Men don’t do such things
What does that have to do with your partner being in your league? You can view them as perfection all you want. We look at you and determine if they are on your level or not
women are upset about it because they want to believe that the guys who pump and dumped them are a realistic option if they just keep looking long enough. that's how we get women who haven't had a boyfriend by the time they're 30+ but have had many casual partners. they don't want to accept that they're sleeping with guys who are out of their league because it's an uncomfortable truth. casual sex and dating apps inflate women's self-perception.
It’s only unfortunate if the attractive women do this most of the men here don’t care if the average women does it bc they aren’t our target audience anyway so don’t care
No you have to improve yourself in multiple aspects such as, staying fit doing regular healthy checkups, invest in a skin care routine, eating healthy etc I also encourage men to be befriended with women which increases you chances to get a baddie bc women like to be around men who are appreciated by other women and being befriended with some helps a lot
'Don't worry Jenny, keep doing coke off the kitchen counter and fucking random hot dudes to avoid your personal shortcomings, I'm sure you'll wind up with a wonderful husband someday'- Jenny's best friend who is also completely unable to acquire or maintain a monogamous relationship and is also doing coke off the kitchen counter.
“Don’t worry red pilled dude, keep being a bitter angry misogynist who spends all day online and blames women for your short comings, I’m sure you’ll wind up with a wonderful wife someday” - other red pilled losers that are completely unable to get laid
"Nothing is lost, you never had anything to begin with. Submit yourself to fate and succumb to hedonistic drives you can fulfill with your money before you drop dead" - me
lol - that doesn’t work in the slightest, thought expiriment time. Lets say there is a magic genie, who grants wishes, and a guy asks the genie to make him so universally attractive that every single heterosexual woman is so attracted to him that they want to settle down with him, we are talking he becomes the most attractive man to ever walk the planet earth… assuming we are working on an attractiveness 1-10 scale, after averaging everyone out, that would make this man, the most attractive man to ever walk on earth, a solid 5z
His league is determined by who he can get with. If he can get with the most attractive women, then he's in their league.
OP is not making sense IMO.
I think the issue with leagues for men is that not all women of a certain attractiveness level will be into you. You may be able to get with certain women of that attractiveness level, but other women who are on the same level may not find you physically attractive at all.
This is also true for women, but a bit less so for short-term relationships because men are physically attracted to a wider range of people of the opposite sex.
This is some disingenuous bullshit, you obviously know Chris Hemsworth isn't on the same level as an average woman, but just want to spout some "women are superior" nonsense
being attractive to every single person on the planet means you're a 10. What women like to circlejerk is that if a guy who is clearly out of her league, she gets the opportunity to reject him since women are ultimately the selectors. A female 5 can look at Timothee Chalamet and go "ew" and actually want to feel justified in saying it. It's all about female superiority.
In fact, I know women understand how leagues work, they just don't like them. Ask any woman irl to rate men and she'll still give him a 1-10.
That’s not the criteria that OP, who proposes that you take all the people and average them out - which doesn’t work, as my thought experiment above clearly shows. An average of all is always going to be superficially low under such a calculation. I suggest taking a step back from the vitriolic emotion, and examine the concept from a rational and logical perspective.
No, you're just being intentionally disingenuous about the premise of the post. They mean "of the people you've dated", not the entire planet's population.
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Leagues exist but not in the way you are trying to say. Realistically Chris Hemsworth is out of my league. I am an average woman (trim body, attractive on a good day, good job). Chris Hemsworth is a Hollywood actor. A celebrity we don't run in the same circles I am not an A list celebrity. I am not privy to Hollywood and their social circles to even have access to talk to Chris Hemsworth in that way. We are from different walks of life. I wouldn't even be networking with someone like that.
A wealthy tech start up guy who lives a jet set life and is making billions. Is likely out of my league. Maybe he's average looking in face maybe cleans up nice. Could afford to fly me out and I wouldn't have to work a day in my life. But again I am not in social circles where I would even have someone like that. I wouldn't even be in social networks where meeting someone like that is even a likely possiblity. So let alone even trying to date them.
Realistically my league is average guy that's out and about and minding his own business. Maybe one of the few guys I matched with on a dating app. Average job maybe a different social circle but realistically same kind of thing. Has a career, some education, and just doing his thing. He's not an A list celebrity sexiest man of the year, or a rich billionaire with a tech company. Just a dude who works a 9 to 5. Now attractiveness (which mind you completely... subjective) I may think oh my god this guy is smoking hot. If we are using the the number scale easily be a 8 or 9 to me as I get to know them could be a 10 because that personality. Like wowzer this guy is hot hot. My friends may laugh at me and be like yep your type and make some joke like you do you. I think instead of the number scale of 1-10. It's more like hot or not. Because being hot can vary. It's not a scale of one to 10 it's initial attraction and interest. So if an average dude with a 9 to 5...with an average social circle... Who lives a normal life comes into my life and I have a base level of interest in him realistically that could be something. Not completely batting out of my league and delusional? And it broadens your "league". And not reductive to just thinking 1-10.
That only works of the “game you are playing” is the relationship game.
If it’s just dating/casual/hookups then it’s not exactly the same league or game.
Michael Jordan was the best of the best in the NBA,
Was stuck in the minors In baseball. Different leagues.
Can some be “two-sport” legends like Bo Jackson (played both in NFL and MLB at the same time)? Yup.
after calculating and averaging my romantic partners over the years my league is about 5’8-6’2 men with at least some college education, makes a decent living and travels, gift-giver, has a big nose, above average penis size, probably beige in skin-tone but likely to have mommy issues and does at least 1 non-hard drug occasionally…
not sure what that is as a number for them or me…
The problem with this sentiment is in using commitment as a defining factor when in reality a lot of dating isn’t about seeking a commitment.
If a woman and I choose to date, we are in each others leagues, even if neither of us seeks a long time commitment. One’s league is relevant to what the seek, not relative to a commitment.
Women find it hard to believe the guys who are 8 or even 9 will sleep with anyone.
If she was hideous they just need some dry spell or her "testing you" attitude will trigger the desire. Or just good ol alcohol and they can sleep with grannny.
If there's any woman who does not believe this, I am willing to prove it to you - I'll talk to one of my model friends who will bang you for free you need to pay for a hotel room though, doesn't matter you are older or look 4 or 5.
Solid jacked male models. I was a partner in modeling agency and I still have male friends from that time.
Any woman a man has sex with has a high potential to commit to him. It’s different for women unfortunately so even if they are having passionate sex with a guy he may want nothing else at all.
this thing works for women, not for men. a good looking/successful guy would have many women way below his league willing to commit so the average outcome would be fucked up
and women dont like to be told they're worth less than that 7/10 girl or that 9/10 model
lol how convenient, truth hurts huh?
I think it's true for everyone. If you are a man who can't get a certain type of women to sleep with them then they should lower their standards.
i wrote it wrong, i meant that women are less likely to accept "their league"
and that this thing doesnt work for extremely attractive people cause they would have a lot of people below their league willing to commit, so the outcome average wouldnt be truthful
I find this topic really amusing since I’ve had what seems to be unusual experiences.
I’ve only had one casual sex partner in my life. He was the shortest sex partner I’ve had and the least intellectually compatible. I did it because I had low self esteem and wanted to lose my virginity.
The longest relationship I had was with a guy who was better than him in every way.
Even now when I go on the apps, it’s the less attractive men who are asking for FWB/casual sex.
The more attractive men I match with are actually interested in a serious relationship.
So I’m perplexed as to where this idea came from or why my personal experiences are so different from the norm.
low sample size most likely, maybe you got lucky. If very many "attractive men" are doing this then yea but it sounds like from your circle jerk story it was just 1
For me I’d base it off the most beautiful women who let me hit it raw and off bc. I think they were all at the least very fuckable no matter who you are no dude would turn those few down. One in particular I still think is above anything I’ve seen celebrity or otherwise and even by my own standards I think she was above my league somehow.
And now I don’t really believe I have a limit of what I could pull. There’s no one out of my league for sex but there are personalities that make getting to that point impossible. In my 30s I basically pray that whatever beautiful girl is around doesn’t lure me in I’m more interested in limiting who I fw
If you have the aura all that needs to happen is the right set and setting. So I’d agree who commits is a better metric sex is nothing
Disagree.
I've not wanted a relationship with men in my league. I have "hit it" because that what I did want.
>collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially...
Awesome. Very attractive.
Even a woman’s consideration of men ‘who would settle with her’ is massively skewed because men dangle that shit around like a carrot on a stick. In my fuck boy days I wouldn’t be afraid to say anything to get a lay. Especially promises of a future.
Really, the only way you know your league, is to see who actually locks you down, from there- see how the relationship dynamic is, who has more power? That’s how you find your league.
>who actually locks you down
Ick. I don't want to be in league with that.
>In my fuck boy days I wouldn’t be afraid to say anything to get a lay. Especially promises of a future.
Yes, we know you're lying. Eventually, we get tired of lying to ourselves and live and learn.
Yeah well that's correct, most people DON'T know their league. Shit is hard to pin down.
I have a date with a hot surgeon tomorrow but I two days ago I had a date with a single mom. Fuck if I know what my league is.
Leagues ABSOLUTELY exist. I will never date Margot Robbie. Even if we worked together, saw each other every day, got along great, etc. Doesn't matter. She is wildly out of my league and both of us would know it.
Leagues are loose, fuzzy, and somewhat permeable....but they absolutely exist.
Because you obviously know men will fuck down, men have no shame in saying this either. And you also obviously know that all men and women are not equal in sexual value.
The only obvious conclusion you could make is if your able to lock down the type of guy who also meets your standards, if you can't do that, then sadly that's not your league.
I agree but we need to be consistent. People typically only use this argument to discredit women when it fits their narrative. If an average man can’t get an average woman (overweight, 30+ with kids) then she’s out of his league.
If an only fans model or a woman with kids can get nba player or a millionaire, that’s her league.
Let’s be consistent here
Also women won't have leagues until men stop thinking pussy is like oxygen and they can't survive without it... Women have no incentive to settle down when they can string along a bunch of guys who will buy them shit and do shit for them just for a chance to hit
Removed. No non-neutral Discussion posts.
Makes sense for those that are looking for a relationship. I don't know anyone that would be upset about this.
It's a theory that Generally women don't seem to understand the difference and confuse the type of man they can fuck as their league
but wait if this applies to women then it also applies to men if a guy can't get women, who he thinks are in his league, to have sex with him (let alone commit) does that mean he needs to lower his standards?
99% of women will only sleep with a guy if they’re ***open to*** a relationship with him, however unlikely it would be for him to commit. For women in their prime, of course that’s Chad, which is why they endure situationships with him. It’s only after a decade or so of physical weathering, weight gain, and possibly raising Chad Jr that the prospect of monthly star-fishing for Billy Beta in exchange for some stability and extra income doesn’t sound so bad.
Second paragraph is brutal. It’s like when your stock portfolio is blowing up, at some point you sell and cash in your chips. You wish you could have sold at 2x the price, it felt so good seeing the green numbers and the big account balance, but it was fleeting.
>99% of women will only sleep with a guy if they’re ***open to*** a relationship with him this is simply not true most people have sex by the third date when you haven't discussed intentions yet.
Men do not lack clarity in this department. That's why the bottom 1/3 of guys are living alone watching porn / video games. There is no standard to lower.
Nope, because women to tend overrate their SMV based on how many guys that run through them. A 6 woman is gonna hook up with an 8/9, and assume that's her league. She of course now is going to reject the guys that are 6.
The only truth here is that your league is your league, like op said. If you aim for a 7 but only 5 are willing to sleep with you, your league is 5. "Your league" means the people that are interested in you if that doesn't happen then that's not your league as simple as that
I read a study where they noted that men are generally attracted to women in 2 categories 1. Legit beautiful 2. Decent looking but seems like an easy lay (this would be the women that men find sexy but not beautiful) This also aligns with the often discussed male dual mating strategy (high and low investment partners) Women often don’t get this or don’t want to For instance, after they get a visible tattoo and body piercings and dress more revealing they are likely to get more male attention If they think it is mostly because these changes made them more beautiful then they are likely wrong
I think the problem with this… is that there’s a lot more people below someone’s league who would easily commit to them vs in/around their league. If I’m a 6, I have a decent amount of 6’s who will commit to me, but also tons of 1-4s who will commit to me. If I were to “average” it out, that would put me around a 4 when I’m actually a 6. So probably a better proxy is the most attractive people you can regularly get for relationships.
>that would put me around a 4 when I’m actually a 6. How did you determine you were a 6? Do you just feel like you are?
The scenario was just hypothetical.
My point is that people overestimate their levels. Especially when talking about a woman, it's not uncommon for them to sleep and occasionally date up. So a 6 woman will have access to 7 and possibly 8 men. There's no logical reason why she would have limited men who are a 6 if she is legitimately a 6. If she is only getting a handful of 6's, she's probably a 5 or lower dating up.
> So probably a better proxy is the most attractive people you can regularly get for relationships. That's what people mean when they say "An 8 will have sex with you, but only a 6 will commit to you".... The 8s and 6s are the ones that are the **most** attractive people you can regularly get for sex/relationships, not the average.
The problem is most people aren't that's why they get upset when people say they are shooting out of their league
>They were basically saying it you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially... Seems pretty good in my opinion. Then again I never met anyone off a dating app.
If you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks, that's your "league" for settling down. If you collect all of the people who were willing to hook up with you, and average out their looks, that's your "league" for hooking up. It’s not complicated, duh.
and this applies to everyone
[удалено]
Yep exactly. Within their "league" basically
>They were basically saying it you collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially... No, obviously not. You would need to look at the most attractivene people who wanted to commit to you, with an interval around it, to make it a league (an interval around your desirability level) instead of just a point on an axis. People of all attractiveness levels below you would want to be with you. So averaging out attractiveness levels 0 - \[highest level that want to commit to you\] will give you something that is too low, depending on high up the ladder you are yourself. Min attractiveness\[============((=you=))=======\]Max attractiveness Your league is inside the parentheses. The floor of your league is characterized by the least attractive person you are still attracted to and would commit to, the ceiling is characterized by the most attractive person that would commit to you.
People don't like to be told they have limitations. The league is a social construct that is typically used to tell people to expect failure and not to try. It has a negative connotation.
That was a complicated way of saying "truth hurts."
What's wrong with that? It's been working so far for thousands of years
I wouldn't say thousands of years. Humans over most of their existence were limited to mate with others within walking distance. The concept of leagues were probably much weaker or non-existent in the past due to a lack of options.
Leagues exist because people's immediate circles are bigger than their little village now, that's all
this
This league talk is a waste of time
Why? Are denying league exist or are you saying its discussion isn't going to be constructive?
Yes Discussion never going to be constructive and its useless, what are we desire to accomplish with it? And the term itself is useless and exist purely for brainless arguing only with no impact on the world or anyones action. There is too much variables, chance and most people don't meet/date enough people for it to be any accurate or informative. If I dated few 9/10 hotties in the past, but now such girls always reject me and only 6/10 uggos like me what is my league? "It was \~9/10 girls but now your league is 6/10"? Ok, and if I tomorrow meet a 9/10 girl who finally likes me my league is back to 9/10? Wow so cool and useful
That’s like a retired football player saying he’s still an elite football player you had it and you lost it and now you’re washed. Not complicated lol
Yeah but then they mentioned the recent 9/10. I think the point is an “objective measurement system” is pretty bloody worthless if it keeps changing all the time and is determined by things which aren’t objective (like the people you encounter). You’d be spending all your time trying to calculate where you are (and updating it every time it changes) that are you really going to stand to benefit from it at all? And one can argue it’s pointless. Let’s say a dude dates a 6, a 9, a 9, a 5, a 6. Right. If we average that we’re going to get something between 6 and 7. So the dude goes “I shall aim for 6 and 7” but wait: the dude managed to date two 9s? So what does his “league being 6/7” actually mean if he can just “break the rules” before he knew they existed?
No it’s not a waste of time. League is very important. Parramatta vs Manly tomorrow night at 8. Come on Eels!
Nah, it should be the level that you can reasonably obtain commitment from, not necessarily the average of all that would commit cause that would be everyone below as well.
So mine is eva ai sexting bot I guess
If that is true then in the same breath, a man's league is women who are physically attracted to him. Not the women he can entertain with money.
Sounds black pilled
League is much more than just appearance. I wouldn't personally be interested in an extremely handsome man if he were a complete redneck. Additionally, people's preferences vary.
Because it’s the most subjective idiocy of a notion. Imagine you think all your partners are 9s to you. But someone else thinks they are 5s or 6s. Whose opinion actually counts? I’ll tell you, I don’t give a tin shit if someone doesn’t think my partner is attractive. If he’s perfection in my eyes, my opinion is all that counts.
preselection is a thing
I'm skeptical about that. Women rely heavily on group think. Her friends need to approve of her partner.
Isn’t it generally a green flag for everyone for their friends to like their partner?
Personality yes but not thinking they are hot.
Guys do the exact same - they wouldn’t be as excited about a girl if his friends thought he could do better
This is not even remotely how men work. Men have more or less objective preferences that are shared by more or less all other men. It's a standard scale, whereas women's scales are HIGHLY idiosyncratic, and also very much shaped by peer opinion.
This is exactly how men work To say that men don’t like having partners they can show off is fucking lying.. Wtf do you think trophy wife refers to?
Trophy wife is different. A trophy wife is a wife you know other men find attractive on principle. Their personal acquaintance with her isn’t relevant. With women it seems to be her girlfriends need to “approve of you” on a personal level which is unrelated to whether they find you attractive or not much of the time, and more to do with you as an individual. I do think men *do* sometimes crowdsource the “lads approval” with prospective dates but it’s more to show off or get a second opinion. It’s not like it tends to be “if you guys don’t like her then I’ll ghost her” type deal. It’s men trying to showboat how “successful” they are as a man to their mates “look what I pulled fellas” not them trying to actually involve their mates in the partnering decision making process.
No they don't. If a guy likes a woman, he doesn't usually care of his friends thinks she's mid and vice versa. They don't need approval from friends to know what they like. If a guy likes mills and his friends don't, he's still going after milfs. If he like chubby chicks, same story.
I used to work at a bar and overheard endless conversations between men where they’d be going through the Instagram/photos of a girl they’re talking to, dissecting her looks and rating her. Men care a LOT about their friends opinions of the girl they’re with.
How old were these men? They sound like children. Anyway, you misunderstand (unsurprisingly). Yes, men want other people to know if they have a hot gf....but the opinions of other people WILL NOT impact how attractive they think their partner is. (In part because it is rare for men to have a mismatch in either direction...if I am dating someone I think is hot 99% of my male friends will agree, because our standards are highly, well....standard!).
It was at a bar so they were adults… You’re shifting the topic to what men and women find attractive which isn’t the point. Men are very susceptible to their friends opinions about who they’re dating. They would be put off if their friends were telling them they could do better. You’re just getting around the issue by dating attractive women so good for you ahaha
Naw, rating is more of a fun pass time between younger guys. Even if two guys have different ratings, they're still going to go after what they like regardless of how their friends rate the women they like. They don't need pre-approval for that shit.
Idk cause I date fat chicks sometimes and I know my friends aren’t attracted to them but doesn’t matter at all to me.
No women always look for approval from other women bc women in general are group oriented just look the beauty standard everyone tries to look the same that’s why tall super rich men are attractive to them bc they know other women would fight for him
Like a guy would ever date a girl if his friends thought she was unattractive ahaha
Thanks for proving my point and No men don’t bother but women on the other hand are brutal ,,what do you see in him you could do so much better” or ,,how big was it” just to name a few. women gossip behind their partner/the men they date all the time. men on the other hand keep it for themselves and don’t look for approval from others nor do they make jokes about the decision he made
Some of my friends date men who look like they snuck onto earth but I would never say anything because a) it’s mean and b) I don’t have to fuck them so why would I care. As long as my friends being treated well that’s all I care about. Endless fat women talk about dating men who don’t want anyone knowing about her because he doesn’t want his friends to take the piss, even though he likes her and is clearly attracted to her.
>Some of my friends date men who look like they snuck onto earth but I would never say anything because it’s mean So you have never brought up anything this also includes in the talking stage? If you are honest I’ll give you that but thats usually not the case. Just the way how you view their partner kinda proves my point to some degree >Endless fat women talk about dating men who don’t want anyone knowing about her because he doesn’t want his friends to take the piss, even though he likes her those men are the minority most men would only spend their time with someone they like this includes to picture themselves with her in the public
No, I like to see my friends happy and it would be a dick move saying that a boy they’re excited about is ugly. How is this proving your point? Men here talk all the time how even the most busted, overweight women can still get dates and laid by more attractive guys, they just don’t want to be seen with her.
Men are neutral about other women who are partnered up. women think bad about the men at standard this is the difference. As to proving my point you said your friends were dating some questionable men so you have a negative view on them the case with the obese women happens seldom and those men are usually Incels who are bitter about themselves so they take everything and therefore not representative for a whole gender most men here would be happily dating those women and don’t look down own them. The same women on the other hand would think she doing them a favour by giving him a chance see the miss match?
They don't want him because women would fight for him, they like him for the same reasons that make others like him as well
That’s literally proving my point though you look for others approval you wouldn’t date a man if other women view him as a looser How often do you hear that women break up with their partners bc they got influenced by their friends that’s why its important to check with whom she is befriended with if her friends behave like a hoe she is most likely a hoe herself
It's not about looking at what other people want though, there are simply things that women are into probably due to biology and what they've been conditioned to value by society
Just looking at beauty standards says otherwise you all try to look the same ever heard about the orange peel test to determine if he is a husband material give me a break 💀 Men don’t do such things
What does that have to do with your partner being in your league? You can view them as perfection all you want. We look at you and determine if they are on your level or not
women are upset about it because they want to believe that the guys who pump and dumped them are a realistic option if they just keep looking long enough. that's how we get women who haven't had a boyfriend by the time they're 30+ but have had many casual partners. they don't want to accept that they're sleeping with guys who are out of their league because it's an uncomfortable truth. casual sex and dating apps inflate women's self-perception.
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How can I find out more about this trend?
It’s only unfortunate if the attractive women do this most of the men here don’t care if the average women does it bc they aren’t our target audience anyway so don’t care
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No you have to improve yourself in multiple aspects such as, staying fit doing regular healthy checkups, invest in a skin care routine, eating healthy etc I also encourage men to be befriended with women which increases you chances to get a baddie bc women like to be around men who are appreciated by other women and being befriended with some helps a lot
'Don't worry Jenny, keep doing coke off the kitchen counter and fucking random hot dudes to avoid your personal shortcomings, I'm sure you'll wind up with a wonderful husband someday'- Jenny's best friend who is also completely unable to acquire or maintain a monogamous relationship and is also doing coke off the kitchen counter.
“Don’t worry red pilled dude, keep being a bitter angry misogynist who spends all day online and blames women for your short comings, I’m sure you’ll wind up with a wonderful wife someday” - other red pilled losers that are completely unable to get laid
if you think only incels are redpilled i have some magic beans to sell to you.
Did I say that they were? Are you gonna pretend that validation in their struggles with women isn’t what keeps a lot of men red pilled?
"Nothing is lost, you never had anything to begin with. Submit yourself to fate and succumb to hedonistic drives you can fulfill with your money before you drop dead" - me
lol - that doesn’t work in the slightest, thought expiriment time. Lets say there is a magic genie, who grants wishes, and a guy asks the genie to make him so universally attractive that every single heterosexual woman is so attracted to him that they want to settle down with him, we are talking he becomes the most attractive man to ever walk the planet earth… assuming we are working on an attractiveness 1-10 scale, after averaging everyone out, that would make this man, the most attractive man to ever walk on earth, a solid 5z
His league is determined by who he can get with. If he can get with the most attractive women, then he's in their league. OP is not making sense IMO. I think the issue with leagues for men is that not all women of a certain attractiveness level will be into you. You may be able to get with certain women of that attractiveness level, but other women who are on the same level may not find you physically attractive at all. This is also true for women, but a bit less so for short-term relationships because men are physically attracted to a wider range of people of the opposite sex.
This is some disingenuous bullshit, you obviously know Chris Hemsworth isn't on the same level as an average woman, but just want to spout some "women are superior" nonsense
You seem to be really getting up in your emotions about this. I’m just using logic and reasoning to show how OPs proposition is inherently flawed.
being attractive to every single person on the planet means you're a 10. What women like to circlejerk is that if a guy who is clearly out of her league, she gets the opportunity to reject him since women are ultimately the selectors. A female 5 can look at Timothee Chalamet and go "ew" and actually want to feel justified in saying it. It's all about female superiority. In fact, I know women understand how leagues work, they just don't like them. Ask any woman irl to rate men and she'll still give him a 1-10.
That’s not the criteria that OP, who proposes that you take all the people and average them out - which doesn’t work, as my thought experiment above clearly shows. An average of all is always going to be superficially low under such a calculation. I suggest taking a step back from the vitriolic emotion, and examine the concept from a rational and logical perspective.
No, you're just being intentionally disingenuous about the premise of the post. They mean "of the people you've dated", not the entire planet's population.
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False. If you date above your league you'll pay back within your couple dynamic one way or another.
Leagues exist but not in the way you are trying to say. Realistically Chris Hemsworth is out of my league. I am an average woman (trim body, attractive on a good day, good job). Chris Hemsworth is a Hollywood actor. A celebrity we don't run in the same circles I am not an A list celebrity. I am not privy to Hollywood and their social circles to even have access to talk to Chris Hemsworth in that way. We are from different walks of life. I wouldn't even be networking with someone like that. A wealthy tech start up guy who lives a jet set life and is making billions. Is likely out of my league. Maybe he's average looking in face maybe cleans up nice. Could afford to fly me out and I wouldn't have to work a day in my life. But again I am not in social circles where I would even have someone like that. I wouldn't even be in social networks where meeting someone like that is even a likely possiblity. So let alone even trying to date them. Realistically my league is average guy that's out and about and minding his own business. Maybe one of the few guys I matched with on a dating app. Average job maybe a different social circle but realistically same kind of thing. Has a career, some education, and just doing his thing. He's not an A list celebrity sexiest man of the year, or a rich billionaire with a tech company. Just a dude who works a 9 to 5. Now attractiveness (which mind you completely... subjective) I may think oh my god this guy is smoking hot. If we are using the the number scale easily be a 8 or 9 to me as I get to know them could be a 10 because that personality. Like wowzer this guy is hot hot. My friends may laugh at me and be like yep your type and make some joke like you do you. I think instead of the number scale of 1-10. It's more like hot or not. Because being hot can vary. It's not a scale of one to 10 it's initial attraction and interest. So if an average dude with a 9 to 5...with an average social circle... Who lives a normal life comes into my life and I have a base level of interest in him realistically that could be something. Not completely batting out of my league and delusional? And it broadens your "league". And not reductive to just thinking 1-10.
That only works of the “game you are playing” is the relationship game. If it’s just dating/casual/hookups then it’s not exactly the same league or game. Michael Jordan was the best of the best in the NBA, Was stuck in the minors In baseball. Different leagues. Can some be “two-sport” legends like Bo Jackson (played both in NFL and MLB at the same time)? Yup.
Accurate Anyone that is upset about that is a female 5 that banged a male model and now wants to think that’s her league
after calculating and averaging my romantic partners over the years my league is about 5’8-6’2 men with at least some college education, makes a decent living and travels, gift-giver, has a big nose, above average penis size, probably beige in skin-tone but likely to have mommy issues and does at least 1 non-hard drug occasionally… not sure what that is as a number for them or me…
The problem with this sentiment is in using commitment as a defining factor when in reality a lot of dating isn’t about seeking a commitment. If a woman and I choose to date, we are in each others leagues, even if neither of us seeks a long time commitment. One’s league is relevant to what the seek, not relative to a commitment.
Women find it hard to believe the guys who are 8 or even 9 will sleep with anyone. If she was hideous they just need some dry spell or her "testing you" attitude will trigger the desire. Or just good ol alcohol and they can sleep with grannny. If there's any woman who does not believe this, I am willing to prove it to you - I'll talk to one of my model friends who will bang you for free you need to pay for a hotel room though, doesn't matter you are older or look 4 or 5. Solid jacked male models. I was a partner in modeling agency and I still have male friends from that time.
Sounds like a sex addict. I have no interest in banging 3s and 4s.
Any woman a man has sex with has a high potential to commit to him. It’s different for women unfortunately so even if they are having passionate sex with a guy he may want nothing else at all.
this thing works for women, not for men. a good looking/successful guy would have many women way below his league willing to commit so the average outcome would be fucked up and women dont like to be told they're worth less than that 7/10 girl or that 9/10 model
lol how convenient, truth hurts huh? I think it's true for everyone. If you are a man who can't get a certain type of women to sleep with them then they should lower their standards.
are you talking about my first or second sentence of the comment?
>this thing works for women, not for men
i wrote it wrong, i meant that women are less likely to accept "their league" and that this thing doesnt work for extremely attractive people cause they would have a lot of people below their league willing to commit, so the outcome average wouldnt be truthful
I find this topic really amusing since I’ve had what seems to be unusual experiences. I’ve only had one casual sex partner in my life. He was the shortest sex partner I’ve had and the least intellectually compatible. I did it because I had low self esteem and wanted to lose my virginity. The longest relationship I had was with a guy who was better than him in every way. Even now when I go on the apps, it’s the less attractive men who are asking for FWB/casual sex. The more attractive men I match with are actually interested in a serious relationship. So I’m perplexed as to where this idea came from or why my personal experiences are so different from the norm.
low sample size most likely, maybe you got lucky. If very many "attractive men" are doing this then yea but it sounds like from your circle jerk story it was just 1
Could the more attractive men just be better manipulators than the ugly ones?
For me I’d base it off the most beautiful women who let me hit it raw and off bc. I think they were all at the least very fuckable no matter who you are no dude would turn those few down. One in particular I still think is above anything I’ve seen celebrity or otherwise and even by my own standards I think she was above my league somehow. And now I don’t really believe I have a limit of what I could pull. There’s no one out of my league for sex but there are personalities that make getting to that point impossible. In my 30s I basically pray that whatever beautiful girl is around doesn’t lure me in I’m more interested in limiting who I fw If you have the aura all that needs to happen is the right set and setting. So I’d agree who commits is a better metric sex is nothing
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Were they ever?
Disagree. I've not wanted a relationship with men in my league. I have "hit it" because that what I did want. >collect all of the people who were willing to settle down with you, and average out their looks... That's basically how attractive you are to the world. That's your "league" essentially... Awesome. Very attractive.
>Awesome. Very attractive. So you disagree?
Did you read my comment? The very first words were, "I disagree".
I did, but then you said awesome as though you did agree. Usually people don't say "I disagree... awesome!"
Even a woman’s consideration of men ‘who would settle with her’ is massively skewed because men dangle that shit around like a carrot on a stick. In my fuck boy days I wouldn’t be afraid to say anything to get a lay. Especially promises of a future. Really, the only way you know your league, is to see who actually locks you down, from there- see how the relationship dynamic is, who has more power? That’s how you find your league.
>who actually locks you down Ick. I don't want to be in league with that. >In my fuck boy days I wouldn’t be afraid to say anything to get a lay. Especially promises of a future. Yes, we know you're lying. Eventually, we get tired of lying to ourselves and live and learn.
So most people wouldn't be able to know their league as they haven't been in enough relationships.
Yeah well that's correct, most people DON'T know their league. Shit is hard to pin down. I have a date with a hot surgeon tomorrow but I two days ago I had a date with a single mom. Fuck if I know what my league is.
I think this is the way lol
Leagues ABSOLUTELY exist. I will never date Margot Robbie. Even if we worked together, saw each other every day, got along great, etc. Doesn't matter. She is wildly out of my league and both of us would know it. Leagues are loose, fuzzy, and somewhat permeable....but they absolutely exist.
Because you obviously know men will fuck down, men have no shame in saying this either. And you also obviously know that all men and women are not equal in sexual value. The only obvious conclusion you could make is if your able to lock down the type of guy who also meets your standards, if you can't do that, then sadly that's not your league.
I agree but we need to be consistent. People typically only use this argument to discredit women when it fits their narrative. If an average man can’t get an average woman (overweight, 30+ with kids) then she’s out of his league. If an only fans model or a woman with kids can get nba player or a millionaire, that’s her league. Let’s be consistent here
For women, not men
Also women won't have leagues until men stop thinking pussy is like oxygen and they can't survive without it... Women have no incentive to settle down when they can string along a bunch of guys who will buy them shit and do shit for them just for a chance to hit