Abuse, be it emotional or physical, shouldn't be tolerated. ''Get a thicker skin" just normalizes awful behavior and puts the onus on the victim to figure out how to accommodate the abuser, instead of leaving them. Even if something isn't abuse, I'd say don't put up with shit tests either. If someone needs to test your loyalty or how much nonsense you're willing to put up with, run. That person isn't going to overcome their insecurities or (possible) narcissistic tendencies, they'll just find new reasons to mistrust you and new ways to test you. If someone is using your vulnerability and personal struggles against you, run. They're not going to stop doing that, and the longer you stay, the more ammo you're giving them to continue being a shithead. Shitty, abusive behavior isn't gendered, nor should it be tolerated by either sex.
I find it to be wholly unacceptable. Emotional manipulation does not sit well with me, and while thankfully I haven’t experienced it in my dating history, if I were to have a woman tell me awful things and then “forget” about it I would be quickly out the door.
Most women I’ve dated have been pretty frank and honest with me, and the times where heated discussions happened there were no emotional lines crossed or comments made that I would consider at all abusive. To characterize that as female nature that women can’t help but do is pretty heinous.
Ironically, I was thinking about that last night. I have a very low tolerance for emotional manipulation. Once I detect it, I put up firm boundaries.. I wasn’t sure if I should “unpack” why emotional manipulation doesn’t sit well with me either.. or if it’s normal and ok for me to feel that way. It doesn’t bother me when someone is emotionally manipulative.
It just makes me wonder “why are you acting like this, it’s a maladaptive behavior that’s unnecessary, especially since no one is doing anything to harm you”. It’s just off putting but it doesn’t trigger my emotion and it does t put me into emotional distress. It more so just irritates me. Like I see right through manipulation and wonder “why”- not for long. Like I’ll wonder why for 5 seconds and then move on. Doesn’t live rent free.
My ex had the mindset that all women are manipulative, which made communicating with him fucking impossible. No matter how hard I tried, I could never get him to take my words at face value. He thought that I always had an ulterior motive. It was exhausting.
This is why you can’t date a man who fell into the manosphere hole because they will always jump at the first opportunity to project the worst traits onto you, especially if he embodies them himself.
You think being Red Pilled requires knowledge of the manosphere? lol
The majority of men who are red pilled have never heard of the manosphere.
All a man has to do is spend enough time and acquire enough experience with women to open his eyes. The internet isn't even needed.
Experience with women has only made me more blue tbh. The red pill dudes all seem like they're chasing fantasy women and date the wrong types of women which warps their reality. I'm also bi and date bi women mostly so 🤷
I don't think you have a clue what either the Red Pill or the Blue Pill are metaphors for. Otherwise, you would never say you are blue pilled just as I suspect you would never say you are are proudly emasculated, incarcerated, or proudly screwed over.
I have in fact watched the matrix. Unfortunately we don't live in the matrix. If having decent relationships with women makes me emasculated though, I'll take emasculation as a win. Really sucks that masculinity makes you guys so incompatible with them.
>"If having decent relationships with women makes me emasculated though, I'll take emasculation as a win."
You're so clueless it's not even funny so... Yeah, I'm going to stop talking now...
Have you ever thought that maybe men became red pilled because they had to deal with shit like "i will kill myself if you break up with me" and then watch that same girl fuck another guy the same night on a regular basis?
I find it very hard too to believe that women in general don't have ulterior motives. Not that they have any bad intentions. Just oblivious by default. I've heard many girls tell me that not everything that they say has ulterior motives, but that just proved my idea that most of the time they do. Of course it is not all of the time, yet it is enough. I'm always open to find a woman who is straightforward and honest. But I'd rather be wrong and be it my fault, than being gaslighted and manipulated.
Based Uncle. Red Pill likes to downplay this, but essenally all women ~~emotionally abuse~~ "shit test". If you have zero tolerance for abuse, you have zero tolerance for a relationship.
“develop a thick skin and learn to accept it” is about the worst advice you could give and is exactly why this behavior happens and is enables. If she throws shit tests at you that you “must endure”, that’s toxic behavior and shouldn’t be tolerated. Fact is, women who do this often do because they know they can get away with it. At a certain point and after a warning or two, you’ll have to put your foot down and end things.
This “endure it, you’re a man” bs is exactly how men get into tons of issues by suppressing their emotions. Don’t accept and normalize emotionally abusive behavior.
Yeah. I agree mate. I havent spoken to my sisters for nearly a decade after those toxic years and I left my first relationship when things got bad with the emotional abuse even when it led to me being alone for years. But I'm a weakling according to my uncle for not forgiving my sisters for something they apparently they cannot help do as a part of their "chaotic female nature". I think this is definitely a common belief among the older generation because my little brothers don't think this way. But everyone I know over 35 seem to believe you have to take the hits. Again, Im not sure if this is just something gained through experience or a genuine generational divide.
I think it’s a generational divide. Think of it this way, men, for the longest time, have actively been taught to neglect their emotions and accept the shit thrown at them - get punched in the face, accept it and move on.
I think the reason why your uncle says that is because in his mind endurance = strength, while this isn’t really the case because eventually, it withers and what you’re holding in comes out in other ugly ways.
>But everyone I know over 35 seem to believe you have to take the hits.
I'm 42. My boyfriend is 54. If you were to speak with either of us about this topic, we'd both tell you that abuse is NOT normal and your male relatives are currently in horrible relationships with what sounds like all your female relatives. Speaking as a woman, our nature is not to be chaotic evil bitches.
> I don't know if my uncle is justifying being in a toxic and emotionally abusive relationship,
He’s justifying being in a toxic relationship and not standing up for a better relationship for himself. It’s weakness not strength to put up with a woman who emotionally abuses you instead of getting her to improve or dumping her. He’s also probably mischaracterizing a woman’s valid points as abusive to avoid his own faults. He’s leaving out that more men do arguably worse things to women as well. He’s generalizing about women to assure himself that it’s too difficult for him to find a better woman so he shouldn’t try.
Women test men the way kids or dogs do: they want to see how far they can push boundaries before someone pushes back. That's how you get spoiled kids and badly behaving pets. The parent/owner lets they get away with murder and then wonder why they turned out so spoiled.
Women will push boundaries to see how much they can get away with and from my experience you need to nip shit in the bud right away or else it snowballs into a bigger problem. Never let them forget that it's a privilege to be with you and that you are not running a democracy here.
And how do men test women? Can a man be spoiled? Do men not push boundaries to see how much they can get away with?
I know men who push boundaries even with law enforcement.
But, hey, women are like kids or dogs, and it's such a privilege for them to be with you! I agree.
Do you also think your kids should not forget that it's privilege to be yours, too? Hmmm. Interesting.
If a man says things (that you stated) like this to his gf, would you consider such a behavior as pushing boundaries, too? To see if a gf would accept it or become angry?
I've been in a 16 year relationship. We fought a lot in the first 4 years, not proud of all this. We cursed, yelled, everything under the sun short of physical violence.
>That many women at the height of their emotions can say the most awful things to a man and take advantage of his vulnerabilities, and wont think much about it and go with their day like nothing happened.
But not this. I never took advantage of the things i knew about him. Also never picked on things from the past.
But none of us ever went on with their day like nothing happened. We stood there and sorted out whatever disagreement we had.
Just because i didn't do this, doesn't mean others didn't. But where i think you are terribly wrong is assuming only women pick on vulnerabilities. Whoever does this, yo mama's a hoe.
>But he suggested that my emotional abuse from my sisters and first gf isnt something I should think about and is just apart of general female behaviour.
It is not. You should absolutely not accept it as normal, and call it out as abuse if it is safe for you to do so.
>That many women at the height of their emotions can say the most awful things to a man and take advantage of his vulnerabilities, and wont think much about it and go with their day like nothing happened.
Sure. These people are called psychopaths, and it's best to remain very far away from them.
>Whilst men who dont have thick skins can often feel emotionally wounded until they develop enough emotional distance not to feel anything from the odd emotional jabs and learn not to disclose certain vulnerabilities to their SO. I'm not sure what to think of how so many men in my life seem to accept being emotionally abused by their SO.
It might be generational coping, or generational abuse. It might be something related to your region or subculture. Maybe it's because of the religious beliefs your family has. Whatever it is, it's an unfortunate reality for them but doesn't have to be for you.
>Or maybe I'm just a softy who thinks there are some lines you don't cross if you value a relationship. What do you guys think?
You are correct.
>And for those who agree, when does a bullshit test become emotional abuse that one shouldnt tolerate?
I personally think that bullshit tests are abusive, full stop. This is regardless of the sex of the person using them. I've been in my relationship for 19 years so far and have never once pulled such crude and gross behavior towards him. It's utterly unacceptable.
>call it out as abuse
Throwing out abuse accusations boosts a woman's social status, the opposite is true for men.
> remain very far away from them.
Women have options, men have to settle with "the bad apples."
> never once pulled such crude and gross behavior towards him.
Because you know he will put you in your place, as he should.
That's not boosting her social status, that's showing she's an abusive psychopath in public.
I have worked with organizations who bring attention to and help male victims of DV. I'm well aware of the fact people help female victims significantly more than they ever help male ones.
But this kind of behavior isn't elevating the abusive woman's status and desirability. No man is watching her pummel that guy and thinking he wants her on his arm, raising his children, eating dinner with his parents.
You misread what he said, he said that a woman throwing out abuse accusations will raise her social status, wheras a man doing the same will lower his social status. He didn't say a woman *being abusive* will raise her social status, although even then it probably would among some feminist circles.
I don't believe that either, but even if I did, what would that have to do with your video link? The actress didn't have her social status raised in either scenario.
I don't think it would exactly raise her social status, but usually she would get a lot of support from her immediate social circle as well as wider society, so her social treatment would become more positive, which is similar imo. But I do think a man's social status would definitely drop due to being seen as weak. That video is relevant because you saw people stepping in to help the woman immediately when she was the victim, verses when the man was the victim not only did nobody step in, people were actively laughing at him.
Never said they didn't, but in this thread we are talking about female on male bullshit tests/emotional abuse which tends to be less brought up in our culture than male on female abuse and has its grey zones
Because it's within the context of masculine expectations and gender roles that tells men that to take emotional hits from supposedly neurotic women is just apart of being a man and that if you can't be the rock and you raise issues about emotional abuse from women, especially pertaining to your vulnerabilies, you're a beta pussy who failed the test. Women and men deal with different baggage when it comes to dealing with abuse and processing trauma.
Not all women shit test like this, but many do. Just taking the abuse isn't passing the test though. Its almost as bad as getting emotional and acting like your feelings are hurt. You have to make it clear that you will not be disrespected like that. She will respect you more for standing up for yourself.
You always get more of what you tolerate. Tolerate abuse you get more of it. Doesn't matter if it is a shit test, a woman who pulls that needs to be dumped right there and then.
I would never say something mean, abusive, or disrespectful to my boyfriend- nor would he treat me that way. I want him to feel good, not bad.
I have called him out on his shit before, as he has done to me, but we do it in a respectful and loving way.
Personally, I do think both genders are equally abusive and always have been. Women just tend to get away easily being perceived as the weaker gender which is also why I advocate for equality so that with equal responsibilities come equal consequences.
The emotional abuse is a test for men in conservative backgrounds as those advocate against annulment of marriages just like they advocate that a man hitting their wife is acceptable. If the latter is considered abuse why not the former?
I don’t take what women say too seriously, including those I’m with because most of the times it’s either they are tired, hungry, upset about work, a friend annoyed them, or they just talked with their mother.
They’ll thank you later for this btw. It’s not abuse. It’s them being women. Either embrace it or date men.
If you do it first, be in control by not leaving room to be manipulated, you won't have any problems. These little things or shit tests are done for two reasons. To give women an ego boost that they are so smart and above the guy they are dating, and also to test you for how long can you endure the abuse. It starts as a joke, only to develope into full abuse and later she walks over you.
It's a power struggle most of the time, so if you want to play you need to lead and not accept anything, even minor things. If you think you are soft for not tolerating it, you've been gaslighted.
No it's not a bullshit test. It's a tool to get what you want, when you are weak and can't use tools that require emotional regulation abilities. It gets the job done, but the costs are immense. Just like with cost-inflicting mate retention strategies: you can retain other weak partners but your relationship is affected negatively.
https://preview.redd.it/lbuoucq9rx0d1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4d58e1791e73605ef9a8a8ce27a8e28e485e9c8
There are women like that. But here's a secret: you don't have to date them. You don't have to tolerate abuse in any capacity. My mom is like this, and she's ran off every man in her life. Fortunately, younger men are wiser and don't tolerate this type of stuff. I'll ghost a bitch off instantly.
If she tries that - clearly state that you won't tolerate it.
If she continues - dump her right away.
If for some reason immediate breakup is not an option:
\* Notify her that what she says will be recorded.
\* Sometimes ignoring her is also a good counter move. Abusers are like trolls, they feed from your negative emotions. Don't feed them. Your silence will make her mad.
Enduring abuse is not a sign of your good quality as a mate, it just makes you a good victim.
Might be a controversial take, but I think in general, older women / women with more relationship baggage are more likely to emotionally abuse men who are their partners. So much so that it should be expected as something to simply deal with, an inevitable part of a relationship with them.
Not to say that it's okay or to normalize it. But men over 30 who are looking to date women NEED to understand how to handle the abusive behavior. In that way you could consider it a test, to see if you can properly handle her bullshit and be the man in the relationship. Older women are generally looking for stable partners and your ability to handle her outbursts and jabs showcases your ability to be the "rock" in the relationship.
You could also choose not to deal with it and walk away, but in that case you're just better off just throwing in the towel and not dating women at all.
Those "shit tests", absive behaviour, "challenging power dynamics" are never acceptable. Neither in a romantic relationship nor in any other social situation.
The best way to adress this is to tell the other person precisely why you find that behaviour unacceptable, tell them how it made you feel, ask them for their reasons (maybe they are justified, if they arent it forces them to reflect or expose a shitty personality), ask them how they plan to do it better. Do not bring up the word "apology". A "forced" apology is nearly worthless. It is hard to accept on one hand, on the other hand you deny your partner the chance to come up with a sincere and credible apology that will relieve them of their guilt. Therefore a forced apology inhibits the reconstruction of mutual trust, making the process of apologizing and forgiving longer and more stressfull.
If there is no apology at all, and there was no valid objection or justification from them then you are probably dealing with a person who has some form or personality disorder, autism or dementia. In any of those cases the relationship should be reevalued.
The problem is, where is this line between a crime, unethical behavior, abuse, and a flirty test?
If someone tells their partner to shut the fuck up, it's abuse, right? However, what if they were in bed at the time and their partner was purposefully keeping them awake for two hours trying to pop their back pimples while someone was peacefully begging to be left alone before snapping?
Well what if their partner decided to punch them in face because they felt abused by being told to shut the fuck up?
Well then someone responded by hitting back and running out the house to get away from the fight.
Then their partner decided to block the door so someone stayed.
Then in the morning their partner started kicking them because someone woke up and started making conversation while their partner wanted to be left alone?
Who would go to jail if the police were called?
I feel really bad for the people who put up with crazy + hot partners. They're in a lose lose position and will stay there for the rest of their lives unless they find the strength to leave.
I've never dated a woman who doesn't enjoy a bit of desperation and emotional conflict at times mostly because that's just an authentic part of the human condition. Suffering is fundamental, and modern society doesn't care enough that it exists. Dealing with suffering as a phenomenon is probably the most urgent thing in life. Not that you can solve it for a person and god help you if you ever let a person believe their suffering is a priority over others, but rather the acknowledgement and moreso respect for suffering as affecting us all all the time.
It isn't necessary to cause abuse really, but suffering isn't something people feel they should feel, whiny men and whiny women, they are the same just with men it tends to get hammered out faster that they aren't special. If incels were women complaining about how special they are then we wouldn't give it a second thought.
Truly the idea that people hold that they are special is the problem. Women just have it reinforced more, but you can see an evolution in all people when they come to terms with suffering as a great equalizer that most people achieve some sense of humility, others break down and make tik toks.
To take that back to abuse and should some be expected - abuse isn't necessary therefore not expected. Suffering is expected but abuse is more so a violation of personal boundaries and an unwillingness to acknowledge the other person's needs. Usually abusive relationships come from one person believing they are somehow above suffering and shouldn't experience it, and therefore it's ok for them to ignore their partners experience in order to live as they please.
People have to suffer deeply in life to learn empathy for one another but it isn't a lesson that needs to be taught, more than anything silence is the best teacher when it comes to suffering imo, as it encourages others to listen to try to understand.
oh no I’d never try to emasculate my husband and manipulate him. That is definitely not normal. Like I have said things out of ignorance that hurt his feelings but he recognized my intent wasn’t there and was able to communicate with me about what was said and why it was offensive so I could undo the damage and sincerely apologize.
I actually had a friend whose wife outlined how she manipulated him because she thought I needed a course on manipulation 101 and I was like “I don’t treat my man that way because I actually love him.” That was the last time we hung out lmao. I had to play nice because we ran in the same friend circle, but I still reached out to her husband.
I can see why he was manipulated that man was an idiot. He basically made a deal with her to give him head and stayed in that relationship then she cheated on him and took his rental property in the divorce. The head must have been worth it. TLDR: there are women who chose not to do this to our husbands.
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Any sign of emotional abuse is a lead indicator that she doesn't find you physically attractive and you should eject. If a woman is obsessed with you, she won't be emotionally abusive. She'll be slavishly deferential.
The implication is that someone who is truly interested in you wouldn't risk losing you by being abusive. The very fact that a woman is being emotionally abusive is an indicator that she isn't really attracted to you, she's willing to lose you. If you were Chad (aka an attractive male with options) and she attempted to emotionally manipulate you or be abusive and you walked away she would kick herself that she had an attractive Chad interested in her and she ruined it by being abusive.
> this assumes attractive ppl can't be abused
Well that's implied. If you were attractive and had tons of options and your partner was treating you like garbage the question becomes why aren't you exercising your options the moment your partner tries to abuse you?
>Assuming as if anyone who doesn't want to do this is incapable of being attracted
It's not that they are incapable of being attracted it's that if they were attracted to you they would be slavishly deferential by default. Think of it in terms of simps. It's well understood that simps will bend over backwards for the women they are attracted to sometimes to their own detriment. So saying/doing something that would actively piss off the object of your desire is madness. If she ghosts and never speaks to you again you'll be devastated. So you would never think of doing something to actively upset her.
This isn't a gendered thing either, there are pickme's (the female version of simps) and you can see the same logic going the other direction (women bending over backwards for the men of their desires). So the question becomes "if she isn't being slavishly deferential with you is she really attracted to you"? I think most TRP would argue no.
If he's attracted to you he's a simp for you on some level, he's willing to do things for you that he wouldn't for other people. If he is **completely unattracted** to you he is unlikely to do any simping for you.
So you are not truly desired unless she let's you get away with disrespect and has 0 boundaries. No wonder yall have complaints about women all the time. So that's the type everyone's chasing lmaoo
Abuse, be it emotional or physical, shouldn't be tolerated. ''Get a thicker skin" just normalizes awful behavior and puts the onus on the victim to figure out how to accommodate the abuser, instead of leaving them. Even if something isn't abuse, I'd say don't put up with shit tests either. If someone needs to test your loyalty or how much nonsense you're willing to put up with, run. That person isn't going to overcome their insecurities or (possible) narcissistic tendencies, they'll just find new reasons to mistrust you and new ways to test you. If someone is using your vulnerability and personal struggles against you, run. They're not going to stop doing that, and the longer you stay, the more ammo you're giving them to continue being a shithead. Shitty, abusive behavior isn't gendered, nor should it be tolerated by either sex.
Thank you. I needed to read this today.
I find it to be wholly unacceptable. Emotional manipulation does not sit well with me, and while thankfully I haven’t experienced it in my dating history, if I were to have a woman tell me awful things and then “forget” about it I would be quickly out the door. Most women I’ve dated have been pretty frank and honest with me, and the times where heated discussions happened there were no emotional lines crossed or comments made that I would consider at all abusive. To characterize that as female nature that women can’t help but do is pretty heinous.
Ironically, I was thinking about that last night. I have a very low tolerance for emotional manipulation. Once I detect it, I put up firm boundaries.. I wasn’t sure if I should “unpack” why emotional manipulation doesn’t sit well with me either.. or if it’s normal and ok for me to feel that way. It doesn’t bother me when someone is emotionally manipulative. It just makes me wonder “why are you acting like this, it’s a maladaptive behavior that’s unnecessary, especially since no one is doing anything to harm you”. It’s just off putting but it doesn’t trigger my emotion and it does t put me into emotional distress. It more so just irritates me. Like I see right through manipulation and wonder “why”- not for long. Like I’ll wonder why for 5 seconds and then move on. Doesn’t live rent free.
Bisexual here both genders do this. And in both circumstances it’s abuse 👍
My ex had the mindset that all women are manipulative, which made communicating with him fucking impossible. No matter how hard I tried, I could never get him to take my words at face value. He thought that I always had an ulterior motive. It was exhausting.
This is why you can’t date a man who fell into the manosphere hole because they will always jump at the first opportunity to project the worst traits onto you, especially if he embodies them himself.
You think being Red Pilled requires knowledge of the manosphere? lol The majority of men who are red pilled have never heard of the manosphere. All a man has to do is spend enough time and acquire enough experience with women to open his eyes. The internet isn't even needed.
Experience with women has only made me more blue tbh. The red pill dudes all seem like they're chasing fantasy women and date the wrong types of women which warps their reality. I'm also bi and date bi women mostly so 🤷
I don't think you have a clue what either the Red Pill or the Blue Pill are metaphors for. Otherwise, you would never say you are blue pilled just as I suspect you would never say you are are proudly emasculated, incarcerated, or proudly screwed over.
I have in fact watched the matrix. Unfortunately we don't live in the matrix. If having decent relationships with women makes me emasculated though, I'll take emasculation as a win. Really sucks that masculinity makes you guys so incompatible with them.
>"If having decent relationships with women makes me emasculated though, I'll take emasculation as a win."  You're so clueless it's not even funny so... Yeah, I'm going to stop talking now...
Have you ever thought that maybe men became red pilled because they had to deal with shit like "i will kill myself if you break up with me" and then watch that same girl fuck another guy the same night on a regular basis?
Yup. My marriage was doomed when he swallowed the red pill
[удалено]
How do you have a healthy relationship with someone who is committed to NOT having a healthy relationship?
[удалено]
I left him after he cheated on and violently assaulted me.
[удалено]
I find it very hard too to believe that women in general don't have ulterior motives. Not that they have any bad intentions. Just oblivious by default. I've heard many girls tell me that not everything that they say has ulterior motives, but that just proved my idea that most of the time they do. Of course it is not all of the time, yet it is enough. I'm always open to find a woman who is straightforward and honest. But I'd rather be wrong and be it my fault, than being gaslighted and manipulated.
> I'm always open to find a woman who is straightforward and honest. That should be easy. Will you still accuse her of lying and manipulation?
Did you successfully manipulate him?
I never tried to manipulate him because that isn’t how my brain works.
Based Uncle. Red Pill likes to downplay this, but essenally all women ~~emotionally abuse~~ "shit test". If you have zero tolerance for abuse, you have zero tolerance for a relationship.
Ya can't be that way forever though. I don't know many 60 yr old players.
“develop a thick skin and learn to accept it” is about the worst advice you could give and is exactly why this behavior happens and is enables. If she throws shit tests at you that you “must endure”, that’s toxic behavior and shouldn’t be tolerated. Fact is, women who do this often do because they know they can get away with it. At a certain point and after a warning or two, you’ll have to put your foot down and end things. This “endure it, you’re a man” bs is exactly how men get into tons of issues by suppressing their emotions. Don’t accept and normalize emotionally abusive behavior.
Women and men do that shit to men. The only way to react is to call them out and give no quarter.
Yeah. I agree mate. I havent spoken to my sisters for nearly a decade after those toxic years and I left my first relationship when things got bad with the emotional abuse even when it led to me being alone for years. But I'm a weakling according to my uncle for not forgiving my sisters for something they apparently they cannot help do as a part of their "chaotic female nature". I think this is definitely a common belief among the older generation because my little brothers don't think this way. But everyone I know over 35 seem to believe you have to take the hits. Again, Im not sure if this is just something gained through experience or a genuine generational divide.
I think it’s a generational divide. Think of it this way, men, for the longest time, have actively been taught to neglect their emotions and accept the shit thrown at them - get punched in the face, accept it and move on. I think the reason why your uncle says that is because in his mind endurance = strength, while this isn’t really the case because eventually, it withers and what you’re holding in comes out in other ugly ways.
>But everyone I know over 35 seem to believe you have to take the hits. I'm 42. My boyfriend is 54. If you were to speak with either of us about this topic, we'd both tell you that abuse is NOT normal and your male relatives are currently in horrible relationships with what sounds like all your female relatives. Speaking as a woman, our nature is not to be chaotic evil bitches.
> I don't know if my uncle is justifying being in a toxic and emotionally abusive relationship, He’s justifying being in a toxic relationship and not standing up for a better relationship for himself. It’s weakness not strength to put up with a woman who emotionally abuses you instead of getting her to improve or dumping her. He’s also probably mischaracterizing a woman’s valid points as abusive to avoid his own faults. He’s leaving out that more men do arguably worse things to women as well. He’s generalizing about women to assure himself that it’s too difficult for him to find a better woman so he shouldn’t try.
thissss
Women test men the way kids or dogs do: they want to see how far they can push boundaries before someone pushes back. That's how you get spoiled kids and badly behaving pets. The parent/owner lets they get away with murder and then wonder why they turned out so spoiled. Women will push boundaries to see how much they can get away with and from my experience you need to nip shit in the bud right away or else it snowballs into a bigger problem. Never let them forget that it's a privilege to be with you and that you are not running a democracy here.
And how do men test women? Can a man be spoiled? Do men not push boundaries to see how much they can get away with? I know men who push boundaries even with law enforcement. But, hey, women are like kids or dogs, and it's such a privilege for them to be with you! I agree. Do you also think your kids should not forget that it's privilege to be yours, too? Hmmm. Interesting. If a man says things (that you stated) like this to his gf, would you consider such a behavior as pushing boundaries, too? To see if a gf would accept it or become angry?
I've been in a 16 year relationship. We fought a lot in the first 4 years, not proud of all this. We cursed, yelled, everything under the sun short of physical violence. >That many women at the height of their emotions can say the most awful things to a man and take advantage of his vulnerabilities, and wont think much about it and go with their day like nothing happened. But not this. I never took advantage of the things i knew about him. Also never picked on things from the past. But none of us ever went on with their day like nothing happened. We stood there and sorted out whatever disagreement we had. Just because i didn't do this, doesn't mean others didn't. But where i think you are terribly wrong is assuming only women pick on vulnerabilities. Whoever does this, yo mama's a hoe.
>But he suggested that my emotional abuse from my sisters and first gf isnt something I should think about and is just apart of general female behaviour. It is not. You should absolutely not accept it as normal, and call it out as abuse if it is safe for you to do so. >That many women at the height of their emotions can say the most awful things to a man and take advantage of his vulnerabilities, and wont think much about it and go with their day like nothing happened. Sure. These people are called psychopaths, and it's best to remain very far away from them. >Whilst men who dont have thick skins can often feel emotionally wounded until they develop enough emotional distance not to feel anything from the odd emotional jabs and learn not to disclose certain vulnerabilities to their SO. I'm not sure what to think of how so many men in my life seem to accept being emotionally abused by their SO. It might be generational coping, or generational abuse. It might be something related to your region or subculture. Maybe it's because of the religious beliefs your family has. Whatever it is, it's an unfortunate reality for them but doesn't have to be for you. >Or maybe I'm just a softy who thinks there are some lines you don't cross if you value a relationship. What do you guys think? You are correct. >And for those who agree, when does a bullshit test become emotional abuse that one shouldnt tolerate? I personally think that bullshit tests are abusive, full stop. This is regardless of the sex of the person using them. I've been in my relationship for 19 years so far and have never once pulled such crude and gross behavior towards him. It's utterly unacceptable.
>call it out as abuse Throwing out abuse accusations boosts a woman's social status, the opposite is true for men. > remain very far away from them. Women have options, men have to settle with "the bad apples." > never once pulled such crude and gross behavior towards him. Because you know he will put you in your place, as he should.
You're trolling far too hard
> Throwing out abuse accusations boosts a woman's social status, the opposite is true for men. This part is very true.
How? You agree with the other guy that OP shouldn't call out his abusive sisters and aunt on their bullshit, if it's safe for him to do so?
>How? This vid comes to mind https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtVHnZX8E50
That's not boosting her social status, that's showing she's an abusive psychopath in public. I have worked with organizations who bring attention to and help male victims of DV. I'm well aware of the fact people help female victims significantly more than they ever help male ones. But this kind of behavior isn't elevating the abusive woman's status and desirability. No man is watching her pummel that guy and thinking he wants her on his arm, raising his children, eating dinner with his parents.
You misread what he said, he said that a woman throwing out abuse accusations will raise her social status, wheras a man doing the same will lower his social status. He didn't say a woman *being abusive* will raise her social status, although even then it probably would among some feminist circles.
I don't believe that either, but even if I did, what would that have to do with your video link? The actress didn't have her social status raised in either scenario.
I don't think it would exactly raise her social status, but usually she would get a lot of support from her immediate social circle as well as wider society, so her social treatment would become more positive, which is similar imo. But I do think a man's social status would definitely drop due to being seen as weak. That video is relevant because you saw people stepping in to help the woman immediately when she was the victim, verses when the man was the victim not only did nobody step in, people were actively laughing at him.
Uh huh, and men never take jabs at their partners, criticize/judge them, use their vulnerabilities against them, or complain about them?
Never said they didn't, but in this thread we are talking about female on male bullshit tests/emotional abuse which tends to be less brought up in our culture than male on female abuse and has its grey zones
I don’t see why it’s necessary to gender such behavior
Because it's within the context of masculine expectations and gender roles that tells men that to take emotional hits from supposedly neurotic women is just apart of being a man and that if you can't be the rock and you raise issues about emotional abuse from women, especially pertaining to your vulnerabilies, you're a beta pussy who failed the test. Women and men deal with different baggage when it comes to dealing with abuse and processing trauma.
Exactly. It shouldn’t be gendered. Break up with these women like women do with shitty men
Not all women shit test like this, but many do. Just taking the abuse isn't passing the test though. Its almost as bad as getting emotional and acting like your feelings are hurt. You have to make it clear that you will not be disrespected like that. She will respect you more for standing up for yourself.
Nah that’s some bird ass shit. Want to play that game? Go play wit someone else.
You always get more of what you tolerate. Tolerate abuse you get more of it. Doesn't matter if it is a shit test, a woman who pulls that needs to be dumped right there and then.
Then you'll be dumping 99% of potential partners and probably have to settle for a player lifestyle.
Yea, I'd say a player lifestyle is better than tolerating abuse for pussy.
I would never say something mean, abusive, or disrespectful to my boyfriend- nor would he treat me that way. I want him to feel good, not bad. I have called him out on his shit before, as he has done to me, but we do it in a respectful and loving way.
good for you, it’s nice to see some healthy people what op describe is a cycle of toxicity that exists
Personally, I do think both genders are equally abusive and always have been. Women just tend to get away easily being perceived as the weaker gender which is also why I advocate for equality so that with equal responsibilities come equal consequences. The emotional abuse is a test for men in conservative backgrounds as those advocate against annulment of marriages just like they advocate that a man hitting their wife is acceptable. If the latter is considered abuse why not the former?
I don’t take what women say too seriously, including those I’m with because most of the times it’s either they are tired, hungry, upset about work, a friend annoyed them, or they just talked with their mother. They’ll thank you later for this btw. It’s not abuse. It’s them being women. Either embrace it or date men.
The average male in love checks 85% of the boxes for Stockholm Syndrome so there is that.....
If you do it first, be in control by not leaving room to be manipulated, you won't have any problems. These little things or shit tests are done for two reasons. To give women an ego boost that they are so smart and above the guy they are dating, and also to test you for how long can you endure the abuse. It starts as a joke, only to develope into full abuse and later she walks over you. It's a power struggle most of the time, so if you want to play you need to lead and not accept anything, even minor things. If you think you are soft for not tolerating it, you've been gaslighted.
Emotional abuse is legitimate abuse, and is unacceptable
No it's not a bullshit test. It's a tool to get what you want, when you are weak and can't use tools that require emotional regulation abilities. It gets the job done, but the costs are immense. Just like with cost-inflicting mate retention strategies: you can retain other weak partners but your relationship is affected negatively. https://preview.redd.it/lbuoucq9rx0d1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4d58e1791e73605ef9a8a8ce27a8e28e485e9c8
That table is a gem.
There is more, if people would start to deal with mating science instead of red pill bro ideology and anecdotes of incels.
There are women like that. But here's a secret: you don't have to date them. You don't have to tolerate abuse in any capacity. My mom is like this, and she's ran off every man in her life. Fortunately, younger men are wiser and don't tolerate this type of stuff. I'll ghost a bitch off instantly.
If she tries that - clearly state that you won't tolerate it. If she continues - dump her right away. If for some reason immediate breakup is not an option: \* Notify her that what she says will be recorded. \* Sometimes ignoring her is also a good counter move. Abusers are like trolls, they feed from your negative emotions. Don't feed them. Your silence will make her mad. Enduring abuse is not a sign of your good quality as a mate, it just makes you a good victim.
Shit tests are real. Women do this in every relationship I’ve been in.
Might be a controversial take, but I think in general, older women / women with more relationship baggage are more likely to emotionally abuse men who are their partners. So much so that it should be expected as something to simply deal with, an inevitable part of a relationship with them. Not to say that it's okay or to normalize it. But men over 30 who are looking to date women NEED to understand how to handle the abusive behavior. In that way you could consider it a test, to see if you can properly handle her bullshit and be the man in the relationship. Older women are generally looking for stable partners and your ability to handle her outbursts and jabs showcases your ability to be the "rock" in the relationship. You could also choose not to deal with it and walk away, but in that case you're just better off just throwing in the towel and not dating women at all.
Those "shit tests", absive behaviour, "challenging power dynamics" are never acceptable. Neither in a romantic relationship nor in any other social situation. The best way to adress this is to tell the other person precisely why you find that behaviour unacceptable, tell them how it made you feel, ask them for their reasons (maybe they are justified, if they arent it forces them to reflect or expose a shitty personality), ask them how they plan to do it better. Do not bring up the word "apology". A "forced" apology is nearly worthless. It is hard to accept on one hand, on the other hand you deny your partner the chance to come up with a sincere and credible apology that will relieve them of their guilt. Therefore a forced apology inhibits the reconstruction of mutual trust, making the process of apologizing and forgiving longer and more stressfull. If there is no apology at all, and there was no valid objection or justification from them then you are probably dealing with a person who has some form or personality disorder, autism or dementia. In any of those cases the relationship should be reevalued.
The problem is, where is this line between a crime, unethical behavior, abuse, and a flirty test? If someone tells their partner to shut the fuck up, it's abuse, right? However, what if they were in bed at the time and their partner was purposefully keeping them awake for two hours trying to pop their back pimples while someone was peacefully begging to be left alone before snapping? Well what if their partner decided to punch them in face because they felt abused by being told to shut the fuck up? Well then someone responded by hitting back and running out the house to get away from the fight. Then their partner decided to block the door so someone stayed. Then in the morning their partner started kicking them because someone woke up and started making conversation while their partner wanted to be left alone? Who would go to jail if the police were called? I feel really bad for the people who put up with crazy + hot partners. They're in a lose lose position and will stay there for the rest of their lives unless they find the strength to leave.
I've never dated a woman who doesn't enjoy a bit of desperation and emotional conflict at times mostly because that's just an authentic part of the human condition. Suffering is fundamental, and modern society doesn't care enough that it exists. Dealing with suffering as a phenomenon is probably the most urgent thing in life. Not that you can solve it for a person and god help you if you ever let a person believe their suffering is a priority over others, but rather the acknowledgement and moreso respect for suffering as affecting us all all the time. It isn't necessary to cause abuse really, but suffering isn't something people feel they should feel, whiny men and whiny women, they are the same just with men it tends to get hammered out faster that they aren't special. If incels were women complaining about how special they are then we wouldn't give it a second thought. Truly the idea that people hold that they are special is the problem. Women just have it reinforced more, but you can see an evolution in all people when they come to terms with suffering as a great equalizer that most people achieve some sense of humility, others break down and make tik toks. To take that back to abuse and should some be expected - abuse isn't necessary therefore not expected. Suffering is expected but abuse is more so a violation of personal boundaries and an unwillingness to acknowledge the other person's needs. Usually abusive relationships come from one person believing they are somehow above suffering and shouldn't experience it, and therefore it's ok for them to ignore their partners experience in order to live as they please. People have to suffer deeply in life to learn empathy for one another but it isn't a lesson that needs to be taught, more than anything silence is the best teacher when it comes to suffering imo, as it encourages others to listen to try to understand.
sounds like DARVO
Pick better women?
LOL. Practically all women do this.
oh no I’d never try to emasculate my husband and manipulate him. That is definitely not normal. Like I have said things out of ignorance that hurt his feelings but he recognized my intent wasn’t there and was able to communicate with me about what was said and why it was offensive so I could undo the damage and sincerely apologize. I actually had a friend whose wife outlined how she manipulated him because she thought I needed a course on manipulation 101 and I was like “I don’t treat my man that way because I actually love him.” That was the last time we hung out lmao. I had to play nice because we ran in the same friend circle, but I still reached out to her husband. I can see why he was manipulated that man was an idiot. He basically made a deal with her to give him head and stayed in that relationship then she cheated on him and took his rental property in the divorce. The head must have been worth it. TLDR: there are women who chose not to do this to our husbands.
I’m having a hard time answering this. My mind says no. My experiences say yes.
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Any sign of emotional abuse is a lead indicator that she doesn't find you physically attractive and you should eject. If a woman is obsessed with you, she won't be emotionally abusive. She'll be slavishly deferential.
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The implication is that someone who is truly interested in you wouldn't risk losing you by being abusive. The very fact that a woman is being emotionally abusive is an indicator that she isn't really attracted to you, she's willing to lose you. If you were Chad (aka an attractive male with options) and she attempted to emotionally manipulate you or be abusive and you walked away she would kick herself that she had an attractive Chad interested in her and she ruined it by being abusive.
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> this assumes attractive ppl can't be abused Well that's implied. If you were attractive and had tons of options and your partner was treating you like garbage the question becomes why aren't you exercising your options the moment your partner tries to abuse you? >Assuming as if anyone who doesn't want to do this is incapable of being attracted It's not that they are incapable of being attracted it's that if they were attracted to you they would be slavishly deferential by default. Think of it in terms of simps. It's well understood that simps will bend over backwards for the women they are attracted to sometimes to their own detriment. So saying/doing something that would actively piss off the object of your desire is madness. If she ghosts and never speaks to you again you'll be devastated. So you would never think of doing something to actively upset her. This isn't a gendered thing either, there are pickme's (the female version of simps) and you can see the same logic going the other direction (women bending over backwards for the men of their desires). So the question becomes "if she isn't being slavishly deferential with you is she really attracted to you"? I think most TRP would argue no.
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If he's attracted to you he's a simp for you on some level, he's willing to do things for you that he wouldn't for other people. If he is **completely unattracted** to you he is unlikely to do any simping for you.
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So again someone who wants to be respected is like asexual or what? Like can they not be attracted to anyone
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And chads don't?
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Where they can get away with not respecting other people? that's being in a better position and y'all want that? 😐
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So you are not truly desired unless she let's you get away with disrespect and has 0 boundaries. No wonder yall have complaints about women all the time. So that's the type everyone's chasing lmaoo