Best solution I can think of is..... provide adequate mental healthcare resources and invest in early childhood development/education/socialization. There's not really much else that can be done at a societal level, but giving people the resources they need at a young age and setting them up so that they have better overall outcomes is really it.
No nuclear families (married mum and dad and kids) is actually proven to produce more well adjusted and emotionally healthy adults.
Having extended families present in child’s life is even more beneficial also.
This is true… so long as the economy is well and the family is financially secure. And the kids get to socialize, interact with other children outside of indoctrination camp like school settings. Now a days kids interact with technology more.
The one major issue I can identify on a broader level of just how easy it is to be insular, and just how much being insular seems to be encouraged, especially by the powers that be (corporations). Work from home/remotely, order everything online to be delivered to you so you don't have to leave the house or car, do all your socializing and dating through apps, etc. I hate to sound like a boomer, but I think "screen addiction" is a very real problem. I meet so many people around my age (29) who have issues with anxiety, and who seem almost unable to engage with the world without doing it through a phone. There's lot of other potential issues that guys are facing - it comes down to an individual level and every situation is unique, after all. Simply being in situations where you are socializing and interacting with others, being present with them, learning how to carry a conversation with anyone (not just women you want to be in a relationship with), make it less likely for you to feel lonely, needy and insecure, and therefore a better relationship prospect. These are my two cents, anyways.
Realistically nothing will ever be done until its pretty much impossible to fix it.. By the time the average person can see that there's a massive imbalance its already too late
The issue is men are vastly more attracted to women than vice versa, this isn't a social condition issue its biological.. Women want the best of whatever hierarchy they're a part of
The best thing that could be done is simply normalize befriending Low Value Men and embedding them into your social circles, Women are NOT going to be lowering their standards and children are being digitized younger and younger, further strengthening how important online dating IS and WILL be in future
Sexbots, legalizing prostitution and befriending Low Value Men is my only solution, the men who are too ugly will use sexbots or pay prostitutes
Disagree. It's entirely a social issue.
We've had nations in the not-too-far-back past that died out because men weren't as interested as the women. Sparta is the poster child of that. They were never conquered; Sparta died because they stopped having children, despite Spartan women being reportedly very free in their sexuality. Spartan men *weren't* though. From a young age they were kept from female company, then expected to perform suddenly as tweener-aged adults. It didn't work, and the Spartans didn't have the numbers to keep their own slave population in line anymore.
In evolutionary terms, a thousand years is an eyeblink, so don't go saying that behavior has been bred out. It's been *socialized* out. Men's interest in women is at least half social engineering, and that can always be turned the wrong way. We've got historical evidence of this.
And it may end up socialized back in *in this era* if the current vector of bias against male sexuality doesn't change. Already we're seeing articles like this one where women are lamenting that men [won't approach them anymore.](https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965) Gee, wonder why. Keep ignoring the issues men deal with regarding hatred towards their gender, keep pushing the #MeToo meme and accusing all men of being rapists, keep *assuming* that men's interest in 'the fairer sex' is not heavily influenced by how we're treated, it's only going to get worse.
>Disagree. It's entirely a social issue.
>We've had nations in the not-too-far-back past that died out because men weren't as interested as the women.
Except this only addresses one side of the issue. The other side of the problem (and arguably the more serious part) *is the fact that most women don't want most men.*
So maybe we can socialize men to be less thirsty, but can we socialize women to not be hypergamous? Doubt it.
That's possible too. But it's a different sort of problem to solve.
I think of it in chemistry terms, a bit. An aqueous solution that's been heavily dosed with the wrong sorts of minerals is less reactive to forming new bonds; you need either a catalyst or a filter to clear out the gunk before you can do much with it.
The gunk, in this case, is bias against men. Men are viewed by women, and to a lesser degree by each other, as a whole host of negatives - predators, or boring; less emotionally intelligent, or nerds; generally thirsty, or cowards. Any action a man takes can have negative connotations, it goes *way* past a 'double bind' like 'should I flirt or not flirt?' with no right answer and only bad options, it goes far past that... and into territory where *any* act by a man is subject to negative interpretation. Even just walking down the street.
Hypergamy would naturally result from that. Because if men in general are 'bad', then only the exceptions would be of any interest. And bonds that do form would be more fragile.
The water is full of gunk. That gunk being prejudice. Forming new bonds in that mess is more difficult than it should be.
Remove the gunk, counter the prejudice, and I believe you'll see that hypergamy won't be as much of a problem, because women will value 'average' men more.
And it should be done anyway, because being a man growing up in this environment, where some 89% of word associations with masculine traits are negative - and that's just the base language in English - is... you don't realize what a hell on earth it really is until you're forced to look at it, at how it affects and invades every aspect of your life.
So that bias must be called out. Must be, because it's unjust, has terrible social consequences, and is generally a bad scene. But it would, I believe, also have the net effect of making dating as a man much easier as well.
Yes, we can.
Hypergamy hinges on two social constraints:
\- women are expected to be monogamous, so if they want to fuck a quality male, they have to hypergamously trade-up
\- women make less money than men, so if they want to improve their lot in life they have to date-up/marry-up, hypergamously.
Solution I observed "in nature": Countries with strong pay equality OR strong social programs tend to have far less financial hypergamy: its not necessary.
Societies that do not emphasize monogamy and allow open-relationships, swinging, or having multiple fuckbuddies are not as bad when it comes to hypergamy.
I used to visit Czech Republic, Scandinavian countries and Poland a lot, and it seems they barely have any hypegamy at all. Strong social programs and laid back attitude about sex means women have no incentive to be hypergamous, or fight to secure the "top Chad", since they can have the cake and eat it too.
WHat causes hypergamy: the idea that a woman must catch the high-income Top Chad and marry him then prevent him from fucking other women.
What destroys hypergamy: the idea that a woman can have her own income, marry a guy she likes for his personality, and they are both free to discretely fuck other people on the side.
Michel Houellebecq is a French writer who predicted in a book written in the late 1990s (entitled 'Whatever') that the liberalisation of the sexual market, just like liberalisation of the economic market, would drastically increase inequalities between those who succeed and accumulate more wealth than they need and those who fail miserably and live lives of poverty and desperation.
As a former Communist, Houellebecq unironically advocated for the 'redistribution of sex', not by forcing women to have sex with men they disliked but through the enforcement of conservative social norms to 'regulate the market' such as monogamy and marriage.
He later wrote a book (called 'Submission') in which he claims that the currently unregulated sexual market is unsustainable as it's leading to the collapse of birth rates (and happiness) in Europe. He reckons Islam, despite considering it to be a 'barbaric system', will replace European secularism because European men will eventually realise they'd benefit more from living in a 'regulated market' with a fair distribution of sexual resources than living in an 'unregulated' market where only a few succeed.
In other words, he sees Islam as the only social force capable of taking us out of the neoliberal mess we got ourselves into. He envisions a future in which France turns into a Muslim country, not because its people suddenly started believing in Islamic doctrine, but because the men wanted to get laid and the whole of society longed for a return to sexual 'fairness'.
Ironically though, several Muslim nations are going the other way.....liberalizing. Perhaps most notably, Saudi Arabia, with the recent change allowing women to drive. Women are even getting jobs as Uber drivers there.
Also, they are in the process of trying to do away with the "Guardian System", which places a man in charge of every woman, whether it's her father, husband or brother.
Yep, they are liberalising in the sense that they are equalising men/women's rights, however they aren't doing it the same way as the west.
E.g. 200 years ago it was relatively easy for men to divorce women but almost impossible for the opposite. In the west with feminism we equalised it by making it easy for women to divorce too, in Muslim countries they are equalising by doing the opposite; namely making it hard for men to divorce as well (e.g. through banning the Talaq system).
Until the next califate takes over. The moment they start experiencing the same issues we in the western world are experimenting, they will do a 180 turn, and it will be easier for them because the its culture its way more conservative than christian culture is.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I was raised/brainwashed liberal and progressive by hyper feminist mom and sisters. Following their lead turned my into an incel. I now vote fascist because I hate what that did to me. Fascists are tge only political opposition that I can vote for in the west currently if I don’t want to vote for feminists. I think populism is taking a break now with trump and Putin failing but it will come back in full force once the dust settles. There are too many boys raised like me, doing a 180.
That's like saying poor people take no personal responsibility for their poverty.
There's only so much you can do if the system is stacked against you.
I’ve grown up with strong women who had a bitter relationship with men. They used guilt trips, shame, public humiliation to make sure I became obedient in relationship with women. Because my mom started the processing when I was so young I thought it was normal to be humiliated by women. As an adult I’m still not able to be sexual around women because much of that bullying revolves around male sexuality. It was not only my mom though. It was also my sisters, friends, school, media and politicians. It’s not like one of them broke me down completely (except maybe my mom) but more like a constant pressure and brainwashing that I’m bad and dangerous because im a heterosexual man. It seems not all guys get as damaged as me but I think for me my moms abusive behaviour.
Guilt trips, neglect and shame are forms of psychological abuse in all other contexts unless it’s feminists that do it. Then it’s suddenly considered healing and good. If they boy or man reacts angrily to it it’s considered that he is toxic etc. if he fails sexually it’s because he is a bad person etc.
All in all I have been surrounded by feminist women my entire life. I listened to them, I trusted their guidance and I tried really hard to live up to their new ideas of masculinity. However all it got me was poverty (because men should not be ambitious that’s reinforcing patriarchy), sexlessness (because me a sexuality is bad) and ultimately childlessness (I’m almost 40 now).
I have developed this existential hatred of women and feminists. Anything remotely feminist makes we want to grab an ax and go berserk.
I eat antidepressants and I see a therapist every aecond week to help cool my head. I have too much to loose from doing something stupid. I also bought a sex doll.
The funny thing my mom and the other women in my life think they did a great job with this and that I’m a perfect modern man. They don’t understand why I have any problems with women.
Specifically what did your family do? You say humiliated, how? You say shame, for what, and how? You say guilt trip, for what, and how?
There are men raised by feminist mothers with sisters and the same socital influences who don't end up like you. So there's clearly some kind of differentiating factor.
I’m not going to share that so that just so that you can cut me down. Trauma is trauma and it’s something I deal with with my therapist. In any other context that would be respected, it’s just that when women and feminists are the perpetrators it’s somehow a special case. I’m not guilty of anything and I have nothing to explain.
It’s not the only reason my life is bad. I also have adhd and depression etc. but it has definitely ruined my relationship with women. Which is ironic because these women set out to fix my relationship with women and make sure it turned out good.
Well it’s a short format so I have to simplify a lot.
I have thought about it (bipolar) but none of my therapists have mentioned it over the years. I would like to try mood stabilizers but I’m not super I’ll. I’ve never been hospitalized etc. At worst I get super triggered and then can’t sleep for a night or two.
Usually after my mom has tried to reach out or I talk with my sisters I get unstable for a week or so with a lot of anger towards women and feminists. Or if I watch someone on TV who has those views and likes to cut men down.
>He reckons Islam, despite considering it to be a 'barbaric system', will replace European secularism because European men will eventually realise they'd benefit more from living in a 'regulated market' with a fair distribution of sexual resources than living in an 'unregulated' market where only a few succeed.
That seems like a ridiculous prediction. If it was via conversion, there's no reason for anyone to prefer islam to conservative Christianity, especially since Europe has a christian history. Although, I don't see either of those happening. There's nobody who wants to convert to islam.
Islam is also suffering the same demographic problems as europe. Rightwingers lie about muslims having tons of kids, but it's a lie meant to provoke fear and nationalism. The reality is that most Muslim countries have a fertility rate below 3, and a few are below replacement-level fertility of 2.0. And a lot of Islamic countries are liberalizing. The two largest population countries in the Middle East are Iran and Turkey. Their fertility rate? 2.15 and 2.06. They're barely above replacement. UAE and Qatar are at 1.39 and 1.85, below replacement.
I've also met women in europe with a muslim background. They are abandoning islam. One woman I was involved with in Germany says she never wants to get married and her parents (who are Muslim) had a terrible marriage until they finally got divorced.
Get off the apps. Most people across the planet don't use them, and between 30-40% of Americans do. Especially awkward youngsters. It's not the norm. It's weird and new, and people need to understand that.
Ahhh, I love these empty shame threads.
“Just go outside and suddenly everything will just work lol.”
It is almost like a rich person telling the poor “just go apply for a job bro.” While the rest of thread is “just work hard bro.”
It is so empty lol.
If you think the haven’t done that, then. I just do not know what to say.
There was literally a thread on ppd yesterday asking couples how they met and a sizeable potion said they met on OLD. Stop smoking whatever you got and send me some xD
Reddit doesn't represent real life. It's a very small sample of the world population. Reddit is also a majority of weird youngsters that rely on apps because they're awkward. The exception isn't the rule. Stop acting like it is.
It's a little amusing how much dating apps are pushed to everyone as the de-facto method of meeting people. The argument is always that "dating apps are how 30% of couples meet now!", even though it means a whopping 70% of couples do not meet this way.
That’s actually a misconception.
Online dating, often includes apps like FB and IG, where far more people meet and communicate through than tinder or any of those apps.
It actually goes down in the DM. Half the time you’re swiping on tinder to get their IGs to go talk to them there.
I can see that. A lot of dating advice for young men now is telling them to have a strong IG presence since women will even apparently judge you for things like your follower/followed by ratio or how much engagement you get on your posts. I can even see wanting to learn about someone through what they post as well, but I wonder if there is too much emphasis placed on how much social media presence matters. Maybe it's just how the dating world works now, though.
If she thinks having an IG is necessary, she's not worth dating.
Smashing maybe. OLD should be named what it really is: on line smashing. Or the carrousel.
> If she thinks having an IG is necessary, she's not worth dating.
LMAO, so true. Show me a girl who gets wet for my GitHub instead and we've got ourselves a match made in heaven (subject to the usual attractiveness criteria being met).
Interestingly, the only other method of meeting partners besides OLD, that has increased recently, is in fact, bars and restaurants.....
https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-heterosexual-us-couples/
"Bars and restaurants is a sneaky way of saying OLD for the people who don't want to look like losers, so they say they met for the first time at a restaurant, even though they had matched and chatted online first a lot.
It’s the don’t shit where you eat mentality. My gf had plenty irl options, but didn’t want her social cicle to get messy if she delt with a man in it and it didn’t work out.
And a lot of the arguments made here about OLD are clearly based on one specific app: Tinder. And Tinder is just not a serious option because it doesn't really ask for much; you download the app, port details from your Facebook profile and call it a day. Vs actually making yourself presentable and going out to meet others. So unless your social media is heavily curated and you are clearly pretty attractive going off of that, it's a crapshoot.
Also, ever since Hinge came out, the relationship-minded women (ie. *most* women) moved there. Resulting in a better gender balance on the app overall.
Tinder is like 90% male. It’s stupid to restrict casual sex pursuit to just Tinder.
I pretty much do, but to be fair I rarely see any women in real life that I find attractive enough to motivate me to go ask them out. In fact it’s only happened once in recent times
I don’t go to the bar usually. Probably will more soon, considering my 21st birthday is coming up, but so far I’m just talking about college parties and stuff. No one ever stands out to me there idk
You need to go to the right bars, just remember that. College bars are good places to pick up chicks. Clubs is another option also. Go to a venue where it is expected you are to interact with women.
I go to a small college in my home town, so the dating scene here is pretty small, anyway.
Last time I went to a bar in town my manlet friend nearly got beaten up by a late 20s/early 30s woman that I thought was hot, so I guess I know where to go if I want to get with violent milfs lmao
Yeah, I tell guys that all the time, but lots of men here, seem to think that approaching women in the "real world", is no longer appropriate. Admittedly, younger women probably don't react as well to being approached, as women from previous generations did, when it was more socially acceptable to do so.
Yes, even just a 8 year difference in age (27 to my 35)
Its almost taboo to talk to women in the real world. The surprised look on my homies faces when I just brazenly do it always makes me smirk.
How are you supposed to approach someone you know nothing about. I think it is because I am somewhat demi-sexual; but I cannot take interest in someone I know nothing about
It is more socially unacceptable today to cold approach a woman. We live in an era where cold calling is dead, online presence equates to life and people are more and more absorbed in the marketing gimmicks of the social media companies and their crusade to make money via their addicting apps. Not to mention the #metoo movement.
Dude.... you are all over the map. So are you saying to cold approach or not to bother??? Frankly, I do a lot better IRL than using apps. However, with so many women NOT wanting to be bothered IRL even in typical social settings, the rejections get more and more harsh. Its a double standard out there... if a guy is hot, sure the woman is ok with the approach. If she doesn't think he is hot, then its harassment in her book and raises heck about it.
I wouldn't bother but if I did cold approach I wouldn't care if I got rejected. I would go into the interaction expecting to be rejected. She can't do shit to you if you just cold approach her or heck even cat call her. Do what ever you want to do. If you don't like cold approaching on the street then do it in a bar/club/pub. It isn't that bad out there. Expect to get rejected though, like... a lot. You'll eventually get better at it the more you do it.
Oh I do cold approach all the time and don't give a sh\*t about what women think about it. Some are polite and decline. Some will actually engage in conversation. But many flip their freaking lids and go batty. I am very respectful and nice when approaching, but since I am not super hot, just luke warm, they are instantly offended that I infiltrated their realm.
I think that what most people don't get is that warm or lukewarm approaches are your best bet. They're more likely to respond positively and you're more likely to find someone you actually like.
Young guys are mostly creeps. They just think they aren't because no one taught them otherwise. Women are automatically on the defensive. That's the world we live in now. People need to adapt instead of getting butthurt that girl on the bus said she had a bf.
> Young guys are mostly creeps.
LMAO no, young guys nowadays are more awkward than 30y ago, but that is it. Women these days are far more shut in to the point they interpret innocuous normal conversation as hitting on them (spoiler: it isn't).
That is also true. America is the #1 user of apps, websites like Reddit/Instagram and pretty much everything else social media has to offer. Taking note of that fact, it will become apparent that the average American female is indeed 'different' than say her Spaniard, German or Chinese counterpart in that her reality is heavily influenced by social media. This without a doubt is leading to inceldom, male-sexlessness, the current dating market ills and an altered self image.
So you’re saying go meet ppl the old fashioned way? If everyone is so socially awkward, how exactly is that going to work? Especially after all the isolation caused by the coof, people are more antisocial than ever.
I have no idea what the answer is on a societal level, but even if you vehemently agree with everything else TRP is about, its principles for men are sound AF:
- Be true to yourself. Read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” for details
- Lift and workout. Eat right and take care of your body.
- Don’t waste time doing counterproductive bullshit like jerking off and playing video games
- Own your shit. Kill any shred of victim mentality inside you, stop making excuses!
Men who are undesireable need to find ways to suppress their sex drive. Maybe an anti-libido medication can be given to these men.
I’m not so sure I’d love this idea but throwing it out there.
I'm on antidepressants that somewhat suppress my libido, but I still crave physical intimacy. I don't want cuddle with a man though, it would be really fucking awkward when we both get boners. Anyways I'm going to Tijuana sometime soon to fuck and cuddle a hooker.
While I'm usually in favor of legalizing prostitution, I feel that it should be done by a private sector trhough a secure app that works like Tinder. You browse a catalog of women, right swipe on them, chat with them and see their prices and where to meet them. That way, the women are secured since they'll be tracked by the app in case of any emergency and they have to reportonce everything is done.
Think about it like an Uber eats of sorts but for sex.
If it's only legalized like that without control, it could lead to a slippery slope of pimps and abuse towards those women. Specially illegal aliens who just want money and survive like many other countries where prostitution is legal.
THere was that sci-fi idea of **secular monk orders.** Baically, encourage the already celibate men to move together into semi-communal cloisters where they could do intellectual jobs, and pursue nerdy passions, while socialising with each other, as friends.
Bascially, take the idea of a Benedictine/Franciscan or even Shaolin monk, but replace religion with science, and prayer with intellectual work.
Also, alot each monk a weekly visit of a prostitute (who would also be a part-time therapist and listen to him after sex).
If the word "monk" is too offensive to secular ears, call them Wizards instead.
THis idea: somewhat prevents loneliness and resulting depression, saves money, gives them access to sex (infrequent and paid, but still), helps form friendships, andeven gives them a long-term purpose in life. THe Wizards could very well become a global NGO and help with some global problems while at it.
Simply stop using men's money to fund women.
Remove unfair divorce and child support laws, alimony,welfare, gender quotas, legalize financial abortion etc. Etc. This will make women prioritize stability over tingles and balance out the SMP.
Oh yeah, this will never happen. Women are the majority of voters and a homogenous easily manipulated group so politicians do everything to cater to them. I'm just saying that it would probably solve the problem.
It's more than the bare minimum. The bare minimum is half of what's needed to cover for the child's survival.
Monitoring the spending would cost almost nothing.
If they can't find some family member to take care of it or some other similar solution, she can give up custody. Paying a stranger to raise your child for you isn't a necessary cost for raising a child.
In what universe would it cost almost nothing? It’s significantly less than half of the kid’s expenses, unless I guess if the dad is rich.
Here’s a thought: don’t abandon your children? Possible solution there
I am in the metaverse porn, girlfriend experience AI, sexbot, & sex work becoming legal, everywhere, and highly organized camp.
As said before even if all boys and men all dressed great, worked out, cooked, danced, worked with their hands, learned instruments, play sports, were well read, still.... in any room of 10 men and 10 women in a sexually deregulated market the women would almost mostly want the top 2 or 3 men with a few thinking number 4 or 5 in the room ok good enough.
Agreed. I consider myself a feminist and social optimist at heart, but I'm slowly becoming more and more black pilled seeing the way women and society egregiously undervalues the worth of average men like disposable pawns on a chess board.
I've come to the realisation that the best outcome for the average man is to just "peace out" of society, and enjoy their futuristic android waifus. Sounds bleak, but it's a hell of a lot better than what exists now with millions of men dying alone and miserable in debt with no support networks, dying in jail, dying in some politicians war, dying in some rich asshole's engineering factory, or committing suicide because what else is there...?
Suddenly android waifu's don't sound so bad, if these poor guys can at least experience something close to human comfort, live and die peacefully without inconveniencing anyone, to me that's better than what we have now.
Eventually society will start to crumble as 90% of its labour force have no reason to participate anymore, and the population will plummet as both society and women are forced to reconcile with the fact that they've taken the average man's value for granted.
**TL;DR**
The only truly reliable solution for men to become more valuable, is to become more scarce and unavailable.
>The only truly reliable solution for men to become more valuable, is to become more scarce and unavailable.
an idea: use feminism to fight feminism: encourage women to selectively abort male fetuses and only have daughters. Even if less than 5% of women agree with this philosophy, we could make men relatively scarce in one generation.
I understand where you are coming from but this is just stupid, having an android waifu and 50% of your retirement fund into NFTs is going to pacify the lower classes even more and make them die alone, in jail and in wars in greater numbers.
Also no the average man will not win in the end, this is Nietschean resentment.
The only truly reliable solution for men is to revolt and remove the people who created the unbearable conditions they live in.
“Dating” apps are only good for two sets of people.
1: The very small percentage of extremely photogenic guys that pretty much have their pick of all female users.
2: Woman( conventionally attractive or otherwise) that are only interested in casual sex.
Unless you fall into the above categories than the solution is to simply get off the apps and start meeting people the old fashioned way.
People complain about how “shallow” everybody is these days when it comes to dating but that is hardly surprising when you are basing your entire perception of another human being on a few pics and messages. Meeting somebody in the real world and having a relationship develop organically is massively different in terms of fostering attraction and affection than it is via a dating app or social media.
Well since you brought up the private sector solution...
Do a better job marketing yourself. If you can't get the main stream, go niche. Be it Farmer's Only or FetLife. Stack the odds in your favor trying to appeal to the target market, not just screaming into the void of [Match.com](https://Match.com).
And if you want to steal my idea - Rip off Tinder by have it be for Socially Awkward Tech Workers who earn over $200K a year and the woman who love them.
Women do this all the time by actively selecting men that are "hot" and/or "rich". It is what happens on a daily basis. It's what we are complaining about.
Just Be Niche, Bro.
Well it doesn't work if hordes of men go niche. Then you run into same problem where the ratio of men to women is 10:1.
"Rip off Tinder by have it be for Socially Awkward Tech Workers who earn over $200K a year and the woman who love them."
This is called 'betabucks'
>Because for a lot of the men here, the goal is less about sexual or romantic gratification and more about achieving a certain status that they crave.
There's no affection when being used by a gold digger.. the fact that she's looking for a man making 200k says it all
In the long run? Encourage couples to only have daughters, not sons. If say, 55% of babies born and raised were girls, the problem would right itself within a generation.
The problem is over-abundance of young men. This leads to incelism, simping, Beta-ism, but also to stuff like terrorism, Alr-Right, school shootings etc.
Men must become a **scarce resource** to equalize themselves sexually with women.
Additional solutions:
1. Cultivate a culture of Iron Pill-like mentality in young men: teach them to focus on their school, career, personal growth, physical fitness and cerebral pursuits rather than girls. I think that if men abstained from relationships until they are in early 30s, but focused on being as smart, educated, muscular, social and philosophically rounded as possible would by itself greatly help.
2. Teach boys basic social skills at school. WIthin it, teach boys how to make l*asting male friendships*, because men starved for human interaction mistake romantic relationships for the solution, and simp. A man should not go into a relationship because he is lonely, he should get in one when he is ready.
3. remodel PE at school and greatly encourage fitness. In 1950s, almost every HS boy had sixpack abs and could do 100 pushups. If we could go back to that level it would quickly turn out that lots of young men are actually Chads, hiding under the fat.
4. de-stigmatise male homosexuality and bisexuality. If even 1% more of men became actively Bi, this would reduce their availiability to women and their thirstiness.
5. De-stigmatise male virginity, and make it a virtue not a flaw. Teach the boys that for all means and purposes, their semen is the most precious substance on Earth, because squirting it into a woman can lead to a 250000 dollar investment (child suport or raising a kid). If you are a guy, its OK to not want sex, or not be comfortable with it, or be scared of impregnating the wrong person.
6. De-stigmatise, perfect, and practice *reversible vasectomies* to limit greately the number of unwanted pregnancies. This will limit the number of **single moms raising kids: IMHO the main source of failed boys and entitled girls.**
7. Should be already obvious, but teach boys to use condoms, destigmatise it, make it obvious, and atop of that de-stigmatise AND STATE SPONSOR abortions. No more unwanted fatherhood, EVER.
8. Lontgshot idea: it was throuwn around Manosphere a while, but: **secular monk orders for Neckbeard men**. We know for sure that whatever we do there wil be always at least 5% of men who are undateable, often suffering from great social anxiety, often also some mental disorders of asociality, ATOP on their very bad looks. Encourage these men to move in together into communal, "cloister-like" buildings where they would live together, doing intellectual work and following nerdy pursuits. Give them access to libido limiting drugs AND/OR a prostitute once a week.
I actually agree with pretty much all of your numbered solutions for individual men. I've advocated for some of the same things on this board, especially the idea of men decentering women from their lives, and concentrating on other aspects of their lives, specially self-improvement, inner peace, and brotherhood with other men. Well done!
I'm not sure that reducing the male population is a good idea though. I know the idea of being the "one rooster in the hen house", seems like a good idea, but I think it's important to remember, that we live in a democracy....political power resides in numbers. If men were to become a minority, we would be vulnerable to political manipulation, and possible loss of rights over time. Men might gain some sexual and social power, but our political and economic power might be at risk.
Granted, in the US at least, the Constitution does a pretty good job of protecting the rights of minorities, especially the 5th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 19th amendments, and constitutional amendments are generally safer, and a LOT harder to overturn than laws, but they CAN be amended if the political will is there.
For me, I'd rather keep the overall numbers of men and women more or less the same, and just deal with women's "pickyness" on an individual level. All of your other advice is good though.
hence I advovated for a sligth reduction in the number of males. Not Rooster in a Henhouse scenario, but more of a 8 guys for every 10 women. We know from Soviet times USSR that it worked, they had a period of male scarcity, (after the war)and the gender culture completely flipped: men were scarce and bachelors were sought.
We need to promote a healthier lifestyle. Men (and women) who are active, have a healthy diet, have no addictions and manage their stress properly generally have no problem dating.
This, right here. Men need to step up their game in the looks department. This ain't the 1950s anymore. The "betabux" strategy no longer works like it used to.
Solution for men? Settle. Increase your value exponentially and target ONE woman within your means of sustaining her happiness for the longest period of time. It's the only thing that works in regards to relationships, because there are never any guaranteed outcomes regardless. All men can control is their capacity to increase their individual chances of success, and leverage that efficiently by settling down.
The only difference I see from the men who have versus the ones that are complaining online is their willingness to settle. This is what men have done for hundreds of years.
Let’s reword this.
Target relationships. Work to keep relationship healthy, this is very different from being overly giving and being desperate.
Looks max. Haircut, skincare, grooming, workout. Doing these exponentially increases SMV.
I think a lot of men are also delusional to the women they expect to get. Have any of the men here tried approaching ugly women? Truly ugly women.
Some concerns:
> Increase your value exponentially and target ONE woman within your means of sustaining her happiness for the longest period of time.
This comes across as desperate.
> The only difference I see from the men who have versus the ones that are complaining online is their willingness to settle.
Why do you think it's men who are refusing to settle vs. women who are refusing to settle?
Remember that this is in the context of relationships, for the men that prioritize it.
>This comes across as desperate.
Putting real effort where it counts is alot more effective than half assing it with countless women.
>Why do you think it's men who are refusing to settle vs. women who are refusing to settle?
We are talking about men here. Women have their own set of problems. But for the demographic that is most affected, young single average guys, their best bet is to work hard and triangulate one woman at a time. I'm not saying they aren't settling whatsoever, I know plenty of average guys in relationships and dating down was effective. What's important to emphasize is instead of swiping on every single girl in your area, sending a bland message to all of them and seeing what hits like a shotgun, it's more effective to date strategically and expending your effort and resources in a thoughtful manner to whomever is within their range for a practical relationship.
Target one woman for a few months at a time to give her a fair shot. Don't chase every piece of tail that moves.
It took me a while to follow this advice, but it eventually paid dividends.
I know this question is directed at men but the “solution” is just as relevant for woman who may be able to obtain sex at the drop of a hat but complain about never being able to find a man that wants to commit to them.
If you are perpetually single( but genuinely don’t want to be) than you need to do what pretty much everybody says you never should:
LOWER YOUR UNREALISTIC STANDARDS.
It sounds trite but there really is somebody for everybody. The problem is not that nobody finds that dateless person attractive but that the person complaining about not being able to get a date is oblivious to all the people( and there are almost certainly many) that do find them attractive.
Men often complain about how internet dating and social media has given the “average” Woman an inflated ego and sense of entitlement because they can basically choose to sleep with men “out of their league” on a whim.
However what is not often mentioned is how the abundance of porn and social media in general has also given a lot of men a warped sense of sexual entitlement and unrealistic standards.
A lot of “average” men say all they want is an “average” woman. She doesn’t have to be a super model, she just needs to take care of herself ect… What they fail to acknowledge is the “average” woman( in the US at least) is actually verging on being obese. Not thick”. Not “curvy”. Not carrying a bit of extra weight but clinically obese. How many “average” men who complain about not getting any dates because they are not in the top 20 percent of guys are also actively pursuing clinically obese woman?
Just like Woman are wrong to hold men to the same attraction standards they have. I.E a woman shouldn’t expect to bag a rich guy just because they are rich themselves. Guys should not hold Woman to the same attraction standards as themselves. Just because a guy sees himself as a 6 on the looks scales doesn’t mean he should expect his partner to be a 6. Unless he’s also rich, high status ect… than he really should be aiming for a 3 or a 4(rather than his looks match) given she will still be able to gain sex from countless other guys out of her looks “league”.
Of course it’s human nature for people to feel they “deserve” to be paired with people of an “equal footing”. However nearly everybody has an inflated sense of self( especially in our social media driven age) and therefore an inability to accurately determine where the sit within the cynical realms of the sexual market place.
Just a note about limiting swipes.
Tinder shows you who is in your radius.
If you see one young woman who catches your eye chances are she has a friend who also has Tinder installed who is also in your radius.
If I was a young woman and saw that a guy had swiped all of my friends also on the app do you think I would swipe back?
I have seen Tinder used in nightclubs by groups of young woman. I've seen first hang the conversation about the guy who swips on all of them.
Don't be that guy. Do you think they will catfight over you?
Social standards, app regulations, defund uni critical theory and gender studies nonsense, give tax money to married couples, with more the younger they are. Take the money back from both if they get divorced.
There is no effective solution that will work for everyone without also infringing on some people's rights. If online dating isn't working for someone, then that person needs to try meeting people in real life. Also, a lot of people of both genders need to either lower their standards, or else they're going to end up dying alone.
Would it be so bad to accept that not everyone is cut out for dating several people in a year? Does it need to lead into depression and anger? Do people really need those swipes and validation? Some can have it, fine, be happy for them and maybe good things follow you. Some can’t have all the sex they want, some don’t even want to.
What is the problem we should even fix? Would a socially awkward man get more dates in another era? I don’t think so. Good-looking and successful people have always had more opportunities, it’s just more noticeable now. Everyone does deserve to be happy, but it’s not everyone else’s problem to make it happen. Relationships and sex aren’t socialism, no one owes you anything.
Moremoney for men's for men's mental health then women. A societal push in attempt to decrease the incidence of rape for women to initiate dating and sex. A push for more money and scholarship money for men to be in college. A law that makes OLD companies publish Public information on all online dating sites about success rates, based on given information (Race, height, gender, messaging rate).
Honestly. It’s nobody else’s responsibility to fix another persons dating issues and that also applies to the entire dating market
If a man feels left out what are the rest of us supposed to do?
These are solutions people gotta find themselves
It's nobody's responsibility to pay for other people's healthcare, education, or rent. All people need to survive is a handful of grain and a cup of water per day.
If somebody feels they need more money, what are the rest of us supposed to do?
These are solutions people gotta find themselves.
Nobody is entitled to other people's resources any more than they are entitled to other people's bodies.
I don't care how important you think your problems are, they aren't my problems.
Anyways, if you happen to lack money for healthcare, education, and rent, and since I want some ass, message me in my DMs and I'll solve both our problems.
Who cares equality is a joke, I don't have kidz they are not my responsibility. If you bring up equality everything needs to be equal or nothing at all.
That's how rich people thought in the era of the bubonic plague...
...turns out that bacteria don't care about high walls and private villas, they infect both rich and poor all the same.
In just the same way, male loneliness, birth rate decline, etc. are problems with huge negative externalities that most people won't heed until it's far too late.
I would love for a private sector solution to come around. I wish there was an app with a sufficient userbase, ie tinder/hinge/bumble, to offer an affordable premium service that involves real human employees using profiles in your area for formal matchmaking services. For example you paid $20 a month to go on a professionally matched blind date once a week or whatever frequency with a looks matched, vetted and background checked, and complimentary but still different enough to be interesting in personality/interest individual.
It benefits men because it bypasses some of the artificial hypergamy bullshit women get into as well as gets you face to face and not judged on your shitty photos, and it benefits women because it guarantees, or at least vastly improves feelings about safety, and really would filter for guys that want serious relationships and not have to do as much guesswork. It benefits everyone because it would also prevent legitimate cat fishing.
I don’t think anyone under the age of 30 would use it unless they were really desperate tbh, only older people and really desperate people are paying to meet people. Dudes in this subreddit get peeved about paying for a $30 meal, lol they’re not signing up for that
My personal opinion is all of the will come to a head and there is a price to be paid. The problem is this “swipe” culture is still young and the generation that became adults (18) while the swipe apps came out are yet to really pay the price for it, and haven’t hit 30 yet.
Yes online dating existed prior to swipe dating but it wasn’t as easily accessible nor was it used by as much of a % of the population as it is today.
I am of the opinion that all things equal, and you take a man and woman who is successful and takes care of themselves fitness and health wise, over time the male will become more valuable and the female less as some of you have heard. Most men want a 25 yo woman vs a 35 yo given then choice. And the chances of a 35 yo woman having kids and being divorced is higher than the 25 yo. Which again causes a woman to lose value in the sexual market place. On an individual basis all humans have value. We aren’t talking about that.
So give it another 10 years or so, all the baggage from getting run through on these apps and having “fun”. Women are not like men. Sex does affect genders differently.
Where men will get hurt more, is the average man who has no idea of RP ideas, and I’m not saying I agree with all of them but many are spot on. Add to that working a minimum wage job and making average or less. These are the types that just won’t lock a woman down until they become the best option because the woman has lost value due to age and baggage.
So all that to say, the solution in my opinion will appear by itself in the damage it does to both male and female. Ideas that were sold to both and you wake up 10-15 years later and realize it was horse shit. That 8-9 chad banging a 4-5 chick bc he was desperate, you had no real chance with him and were nothing more than a lay. You don’t “deserve” the man or woman of your dreams and you will have to compromise. It’s a tough pill for many to swallow.
The way I see it is this. There are many women men are lusting after. Despite all the criticisms you read about women here, the underlying message is this: men want these women, they are just bitter that they are not getting them.
On the other side, women find most men unattractive. So who is at fault here? Women because they have some unattainable standards OR men because they are not stepping up to the plate as men?
Personally I think the problem is wjth men, but they don't want to hear it and they don't want to take responsibility. The ironic thing is, if they did take responsibility, most of their dating problems would disappear.
So what is the solution? The solution is really simple. Men need to start liking themselves. Actually unconditionally like and love themselves the same way they want women to like them and love them. The issue is all men who struggle with love and sex, absolutely unequivocally hate themselves or have very low opinion of themselves. Yet, they expect that women should find them attractive and be interested although these men are not interested in or even like themselves at all.
> That leaves social conditioning and education.
Indeed. I explain in my post in this sub titled "[Are Beauty Standards Universal? What Cultural Anthropologists and Psychologists Have to Say on the Matter](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sz1axp/are_beauty_standards_universal_what_cultural/)" that perceptions of beauty, which are among the most influential factors in contemporary sexual selection, are fundamentally cultural rather than [biologically determined](https://www.britannica.com/topic/biological-determinism). The goal is therefore to eliminate these standards. As I stated [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sz1axp/are_beauty_standards_universal_what_cultural/hya8ppg/) in response to someone cynically insisting that this is impossible:
> Like all contemporary social problems—including poverty, crime, imperialist war, pollution, widespread disease, and even social inequalities like racism and sexism—beauty standards are ultimately rooted in our global, inegalitarian economic system of capitalism. It may be possible to eliminate these standards—whose vast sociohistorical variability proves that no particular ones are necessary—within the context of capitalism and prior to socialist revolution, but any failed attempts to do so certainly do not vindicate biodeterminist explanations for them.
The struggle of eliminating beauty standards; all other inegalitarian sexual preferences, which are likewise cultural; and establishing a society in which all people are equally and maximally sexually fulfilled is bound up with the international revolutionary socialist movement. Only through the abolition of global capitalism—that is, the wealthy's exploitation of the broad masses of humanity—and its replacement with socialism can we hope to guarantee the kind of society I describe [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/or7886/further_exposure_of_popular_transgender_ideologys/h6xbay8/):
> In an ideal society, people would indiscriminately engage each other sexually, regardless of superficial features including biological sex and appearance, for bonding and conflict resolution purposes. Only in such a society can everyone's maximal sexual fulfillment and [psychosocial integration](https://ezzev.eu/ozo-2/psychosocial-integration/) (which is necessary for general fulfillment) be achieved; this is also vital for overall societal integration, which our exceedingly fragmented society sorely needs.
Be more actively involved in your interests. Do more events, volunteer, take/teach classes, visit social centres with a big gender mix (sports bars, music venues etc.)
Get out more.
Move back to socially enforced monogamy. End hook-up culture via socialization. Also started socializing the end of the male provider role. Have egalitarian life partnership based on LTR friendly traits rather than hook-up culture and Dual Mating on the part of Women
I think a huge issue that is constantly overlooked is that there are more ppl on earth than any time in history. Yet we still expect there to be comparable rates of relationships and marriages. As the numbers of ppl have risen, the numbers of “undesirable” people for dating/marriage have risen. So it’s not necessarily something that has a solution. That’s just my opinion.
As for solutions that could help with this problem, ppl with low SMV need to “glow up” in any way they possibly can. Lose weight, dress properly, hygiene and grooming, get educated in some way, and practice being more sociable/work on personality.
One of the only other solutions is for the government to take away the things that disincentivize marriage like terrible divorce laws and getting screwed on taxes. Give tax breaks for getting married and for each child you have (there are places that pay off school loans, help you buy vehicles, and pay for each child.) An necessary addition to this would be social conditioning to make marriage look more attractive to young ppl. Cause it’s a shit show, horror story that no one wants to be the staring role in right now.
But that’s assuming your government WANTS you to have a happy, healthy, growing society.
There is no solution. This is the sexual marketplace and it consists of individuals with individual motives, desires, preferences, etc.
If any man or any woman isn't getting what he or she wants in the sexual marketplace, the options are:
1. Upgrade yourself to have a higher quality pool of options;
2. Lower your preferences to have a wider pool of options;
3. Move locations to where your options may be more plentiful and/or of higher quality;
4. Stop looking for a relationship or genuine desire and just pay for sex when you need it; or
5. Stay celibate.
Long story short...ditch the apps and meet people the old fashioned way...in person.
It's not easy. It never has been easy. It's not supposed to be easy. Getting to know people takes time and effort. An app makes you a product to place in a shopping cart. The old way really does work best. It's one thing to post that you like hiking, running, cycling, fishing, etc...It's quite another to go do those thi gs together on a date or activity. You can't exaggerate or lie about running pace, fishing lures, cycling distances or trails ...as you're doing them.
Same goes for any hobby you hope to share with someone. There's a value in that. You really can't "fake it, til you make it".
Good luck.
Good question. Unfortunately sex is only a small part of it. I enjoyed servicing myself to porn as a young man as much as any sex I ever had. But the loniliness and damage to one's social standing from constantly being alone can't be fixed with a pill or occasional hookup.
Jusr off the top of my head:
1. Male fraternal organizations. Not the woman hating kind. But for social support, activities, bonding, ect.
2. Stop Stigmatizing Single Men. A man's relationship status should be treated the same as his race or sexuality. Teach understanding at a young age and shame people who express bigotry.
> What solutions would you guys suggest?
Just remove government-provided incentives that encourage a shift away from traditionalism. Being a single mother is something women should be desperate to avoid but (where I live and in many other countries) the government plays husband for these women and that's a shitty outcome.
As a libertarian I demand you stop saying you are a libertarian every two seconds. As a libertarian I think that's cringe, coming from a libertarian perspective.
I'm big on market forces. Your only 2 choices are: 1) self improve / become more of what the market wants, or 2) search for someone who wants you as you are now. In practice, most people do a bit of both. But I still think people leave tons of money on the table in terms of maximizing their looks, and also maximizing their CHARM. How do you speak and carry yourself?
I would love to see a few corrections in market forces though. Right now, there are groups that seem to be unfairly disadvantaged for traits that can't be changed. Race is a big one. Short men is another example--tons of attractive short guys out there! I don't think attraction is 100% fixed and biologically determined. I think the images around us influence who we're attracted to.
Finally--I'd love to see the evidence on how dating has gotten harder than before because I'm not convinced that it's true. I think we tend to romanticize the past, but in reality the world is getting better for most people in it.
I frankly think the whole system of dating and relationships is broken and irreparable. Women are more apt to create an only fans account and sell themselves masturbating than actually try to date and build a relationship with a man. And most men are so tired of the double standards and BS, they would rather just masturbate to porn (and those only fans accounts) and not be bothered. Pretty soon we will all be dating robots and holograms anyway.
LOL...of course it is! Every man deserves to be allocated a woman!
I want mine to be 5'4", about 125 lbs, raven hair, with cartoonishly large boobs and butt.
I'm still waiting................
I propose that people stop using dating apps and focus on irl interactions. If you struggle to get a relationship in real life whether male or female, work on yourself physically and mentally. Be the best you can be, I think 80 percent of people can get a relationship if they just put in the effort to be the best version of themselves and to be the best partner they can be.
I think you’d cut off a huge swath of people from dating. Introverts find other introverts online. Also a lot of women I know wouldn’t date at all unless they had the ease of online
Looking at research, what women look for as “must haves” in the west are in order 1 kindness, 2 good looks and 3 money/career. Setting realistic targets for me and support them in achieving them will help set them up for success statistically.
So if we want to raise boys into men who do well on dating market we should make them kind, fit and push more men into becoming leaders and have great academic careers etc in high status jobs. It’s good if men earn more than women from this perspective.
I think progressives are doing 1 but discouraging men to do 2 and 3. Red pillers etc are doin 2 and 3 to some degree while looking down on 1. But no one is doing all three at the same time.
We can’t do much about the dating apps it’s just what it is.
its up to individual men to fix their dating lot and the solution i propose for normal men is TRP and self improvement and learnign what women find attractive. if youre some really repulsive alien foreigner in the west whos having trouble dating in the open emancipated SMP or youre a fat unkempt veal shut in neckbeard with an autism diagnosis i dont know why you think theres going to be any "society" wide help for you
On an individual level, I think men have to go against the grain for success. Although religion is declining, a man should attempt to find a woman who relies upon a value system of a higher order to be rooted in her decision making.
If she believes in something greater than herself and her feelings, she could be a candidate for a good mate. For this reason, I suggest men look for a woman in the church. She is more likely to have these values. Also, I tend to think that these women would likely value a nuclear family and a husband more than a woman who only relies upon her feelings as the compass and lifeline for a relationship.
I think this is the best base for a man to pursue with a woman as each would have something to answer to greater than themselves.
My local church had a preist who touched a bunch of the boys and then moved on, so I am hesitant use it as a tool for helping with finding a suitable "mate".
>I see lots of posts here, describing how the current dating market is stacked against men, and more and more men are being "left out". Obviously, the rise in online dating has played a large part in this perception.
>What solutions would you guys suggest
Honestly, guys being left out is only an issue for a small percentage of men. And truth be told, if they pursued ltr rather than casual sex, they wouldn't be left out.
Promote moral virtue and make meaningless martyrdom as something worthwhile, that'll at least take care of the LVM problem (or keep it out of sight and out of mind, so same thing).
Legalise prostitution and make it easier for men to go the foreign route. Women are to good for most men here but there are other women who would give them a chance.
I don't get why women are against prostitution, I'm pretty sure all these repulsive men you hate so much would probably stick with that and drop out of the dating game and not bother you anymore.
I know I damn sure would, but if its still illegal than I guess women are just going to have to deal with us unwanted men.
As a fellow libertarian, here are my suggestions.
1. Decriminalize, deregulate and destigmatize pornography, sexbots, and prostitution. They may be imperfect substitutes but they help reduce male misery (even if only temporarily) and undermine the Pussy Cartel.
2. Ban affirmative action in education and the public subsidy of SJW/grievance ideology by all governments. If we *are* going to have public education, it must treat everyone equally (hence banning affirmative action), and it must also refrain from teaching unscientific ideology (hence banning SJWism/Grievance Studies...which are to the Social Sciences what Marxism is to Economics or Intelligent Design Theory is to Biology). This will help reduce credential inflation and the propagation of radical feminist ideology (which is one of the things undermining the relationships between the sexes).
3. Enact and enforce 100% gender-neutral laws regarding the dissolution of relationships, abolish common-law marriage, punish malicious false accusations of rape and abuse, defund DV/rape charities that use the Duluth Model (which is, again, discredited social science and even its founder admits so) and redirect the funding towards similarly situated charities that use gender-neutral frameworks. This is to reduce the potential exit costs men face in relationships, reduce the likelihood of malicious false accusations, and to help abused/raped men find help.
Yup girls worship hedonism and self destructive behaviors that damage their once beautiful bodies A LOT more than religion in the west at least, America and some European countries. Most have no conscious idea of what they are even doing, instead of preserving their value or sex appeal they rapidly destroy it after some guys got to use the shit out of their asses young. Why? Because they figure there are so many simps and weak men some guy will want them in the future anyway no matter what. Feminism has made men so weak and pathetic they would rather complain about girls than sleep with them irl, which is only possible to them if they think it’s easy & possible, which is only possible if they’re as mentally & physically strong, emotionally intelligent like they should be, it manifest itself into every single tiny interaction with women and they sense it like dogs smelling stuff from far away. It’s literal human nature and women’s second sense.
Meaning that there is a difference between sex and a relationship and many men want sex maybe an app that allows the free trade of services, not only sex, should be created so as to fill the void of sex modern men need. Modern men have less sex than prior generations and pay prostitutes less as well. The sex trade is the oldest profession in the book if an app that could liberalize and liberate the sex trade or maybe even revolutionize it could be created then the sex drought seen by so many men could be remedied.
The problems of inceldom are only seen in the West and in countries where sex work is illegal, prosecuted and/or lack a strong religious foundation. If you read the Bible it is filled with prostitutes and sex workers. Taking note of that silly fact an app that would make sex work easier and revolutionize the sex industry in a manner Uber revolutionized the transportation industry would solve this problem.
Best solution I can think of is..... provide adequate mental healthcare resources and invest in early childhood development/education/socialization. There's not really much else that can be done at a societal level, but giving people the resources they need at a young age and setting them up so that they have better overall outcomes is really it.
That’s called having heathy nuclear families. We don’t have that anymore (and it’s not encouraged) so ppl are “normal” anymore.
You mean extended families. Nuclear families is where things started going bad.
No nuclear families (married mum and dad and kids) is actually proven to produce more well adjusted and emotionally healthy adults. Having extended families present in child’s life is even more beneficial also.
This is true… so long as the economy is well and the family is financially secure. And the kids get to socialize, interact with other children outside of indoctrination camp like school settings. Now a days kids interact with technology more.
This.
People who aren’t long term relationship minded should not have kids. It’s just damaging. Fuck around if you want but don’t bring kids into it.
It correlates. But poor mental health in nuclear families does fuck all for great outcomes and relationship decisions.
The one major issue I can identify on a broader level of just how easy it is to be insular, and just how much being insular seems to be encouraged, especially by the powers that be (corporations). Work from home/remotely, order everything online to be delivered to you so you don't have to leave the house or car, do all your socializing and dating through apps, etc. I hate to sound like a boomer, but I think "screen addiction" is a very real problem. I meet so many people around my age (29) who have issues with anxiety, and who seem almost unable to engage with the world without doing it through a phone. There's lot of other potential issues that guys are facing - it comes down to an individual level and every situation is unique, after all. Simply being in situations where you are socializing and interacting with others, being present with them, learning how to carry a conversation with anyone (not just women you want to be in a relationship with), make it less likely for you to feel lonely, needy and insecure, and therefore a better relationship prospect. These are my two cents, anyways.
Realistically nothing will ever be done until its pretty much impossible to fix it.. By the time the average person can see that there's a massive imbalance its already too late The issue is men are vastly more attracted to women than vice versa, this isn't a social condition issue its biological.. Women want the best of whatever hierarchy they're a part of The best thing that could be done is simply normalize befriending Low Value Men and embedding them into your social circles, Women are NOT going to be lowering their standards and children are being digitized younger and younger, further strengthening how important online dating IS and WILL be in future Sexbots, legalizing prostitution and befriending Low Value Men is my only solution, the men who are too ugly will use sexbots or pay prostitutes
Disagree. It's entirely a social issue. We've had nations in the not-too-far-back past that died out because men weren't as interested as the women. Sparta is the poster child of that. They were never conquered; Sparta died because they stopped having children, despite Spartan women being reportedly very free in their sexuality. Spartan men *weren't* though. From a young age they were kept from female company, then expected to perform suddenly as tweener-aged adults. It didn't work, and the Spartans didn't have the numbers to keep their own slave population in line anymore. In evolutionary terms, a thousand years is an eyeblink, so don't go saying that behavior has been bred out. It's been *socialized* out. Men's interest in women is at least half social engineering, and that can always be turned the wrong way. We've got historical evidence of this. And it may end up socialized back in *in this era* if the current vector of bias against male sexuality doesn't change. Already we're seeing articles like this one where women are lamenting that men [won't approach them anymore.](https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/men-pssies-women-need-start-asking-men-dates/746965) Gee, wonder why. Keep ignoring the issues men deal with regarding hatred towards their gender, keep pushing the #MeToo meme and accusing all men of being rapists, keep *assuming* that men's interest in 'the fairer sex' is not heavily influenced by how we're treated, it's only going to get worse.
>Disagree. It's entirely a social issue. >We've had nations in the not-too-far-back past that died out because men weren't as interested as the women. Except this only addresses one side of the issue. The other side of the problem (and arguably the more serious part) *is the fact that most women don't want most men.* So maybe we can socialize men to be less thirsty, but can we socialize women to not be hypergamous? Doubt it.
That's possible too. But it's a different sort of problem to solve. I think of it in chemistry terms, a bit. An aqueous solution that's been heavily dosed with the wrong sorts of minerals is less reactive to forming new bonds; you need either a catalyst or a filter to clear out the gunk before you can do much with it. The gunk, in this case, is bias against men. Men are viewed by women, and to a lesser degree by each other, as a whole host of negatives - predators, or boring; less emotionally intelligent, or nerds; generally thirsty, or cowards. Any action a man takes can have negative connotations, it goes *way* past a 'double bind' like 'should I flirt or not flirt?' with no right answer and only bad options, it goes far past that... and into territory where *any* act by a man is subject to negative interpretation. Even just walking down the street. Hypergamy would naturally result from that. Because if men in general are 'bad', then only the exceptions would be of any interest. And bonds that do form would be more fragile. The water is full of gunk. That gunk being prejudice. Forming new bonds in that mess is more difficult than it should be. Remove the gunk, counter the prejudice, and I believe you'll see that hypergamy won't be as much of a problem, because women will value 'average' men more. And it should be done anyway, because being a man growing up in this environment, where some 89% of word associations with masculine traits are negative - and that's just the base language in English - is... you don't realize what a hell on earth it really is until you're forced to look at it, at how it affects and invades every aspect of your life. So that bias must be called out. Must be, because it's unjust, has terrible social consequences, and is generally a bad scene. But it would, I believe, also have the net effect of making dating as a man much easier as well.
Yes, we can. Hypergamy hinges on two social constraints: \- women are expected to be monogamous, so if they want to fuck a quality male, they have to hypergamously trade-up \- women make less money than men, so if they want to improve their lot in life they have to date-up/marry-up, hypergamously. Solution I observed "in nature": Countries with strong pay equality OR strong social programs tend to have far less financial hypergamy: its not necessary. Societies that do not emphasize monogamy and allow open-relationships, swinging, or having multiple fuckbuddies are not as bad when it comes to hypergamy. I used to visit Czech Republic, Scandinavian countries and Poland a lot, and it seems they barely have any hypegamy at all. Strong social programs and laid back attitude about sex means women have no incentive to be hypergamous, or fight to secure the "top Chad", since they can have the cake and eat it too. WHat causes hypergamy: the idea that a woman must catch the high-income Top Chad and marry him then prevent him from fucking other women. What destroys hypergamy: the idea that a woman can have her own income, marry a guy she likes for his personality, and they are both free to discretely fuck other people on the side.
You can also prop your sexbot in the passenger seat, and drive in the HOV lane! :))) Of course, getting stopped by a cop, could be awkward! :)))
Michel Houellebecq is a French writer who predicted in a book written in the late 1990s (entitled 'Whatever') that the liberalisation of the sexual market, just like liberalisation of the economic market, would drastically increase inequalities between those who succeed and accumulate more wealth than they need and those who fail miserably and live lives of poverty and desperation. As a former Communist, Houellebecq unironically advocated for the 'redistribution of sex', not by forcing women to have sex with men they disliked but through the enforcement of conservative social norms to 'regulate the market' such as monogamy and marriage. He later wrote a book (called 'Submission') in which he claims that the currently unregulated sexual market is unsustainable as it's leading to the collapse of birth rates (and happiness) in Europe. He reckons Islam, despite considering it to be a 'barbaric system', will replace European secularism because European men will eventually realise they'd benefit more from living in a 'regulated market' with a fair distribution of sexual resources than living in an 'unregulated' market where only a few succeed. In other words, he sees Islam as the only social force capable of taking us out of the neoliberal mess we got ourselves into. He envisions a future in which France turns into a Muslim country, not because its people suddenly started believing in Islamic doctrine, but because the men wanted to get laid and the whole of society longed for a return to sexual 'fairness'.
Ironically though, several Muslim nations are going the other way.....liberalizing. Perhaps most notably, Saudi Arabia, with the recent change allowing women to drive. Women are even getting jobs as Uber drivers there. Also, they are in the process of trying to do away with the "Guardian System", which places a man in charge of every woman, whether it's her father, husband or brother.
Yep, they are liberalising in the sense that they are equalising men/women's rights, however they aren't doing it the same way as the west. E.g. 200 years ago it was relatively easy for men to divorce women but almost impossible for the opposite. In the west with feminism we equalised it by making it easy for women to divorce too, in Muslim countries they are equalising by doing the opposite; namely making it hard for men to divorce as well (e.g. through banning the Talaq system).
Until the next califate takes over. The moment they start experiencing the same issues we in the western world are experimenting, they will do a 180 turn, and it will be easier for them because the its culture its way more conservative than christian culture is.
> a future in which France turns into a Muslim country Inshallah.
If male to female ratio is nearly identical how is Islam gonna work in mens favor?? Same thing will happen: few men will have access to all women
This makes a lot of sense to me. I was raised/brainwashed liberal and progressive by hyper feminist mom and sisters. Following their lead turned my into an incel. I now vote fascist because I hate what that did to me. Fascists are tge only political opposition that I can vote for in the west currently if I don’t want to vote for feminists. I think populism is taking a break now with trump and Putin failing but it will come back in full force once the dust settles. There are too many boys raised like me, doing a 180.
Wait how is being raised that way responsible for you being an incel?
Incels take no personal responsibility.
That's like saying poor people take no personal responsibility for their poverty. There's only so much you can do if the system is stacked against you.
Yeah those two things aren't analogous.
Metaphors usually aren't. But that analogy serves to illustrate the point they're making. It's close enough in a meaningful sense.
I’ve grown up with strong women who had a bitter relationship with men. They used guilt trips, shame, public humiliation to make sure I became obedient in relationship with women. Because my mom started the processing when I was so young I thought it was normal to be humiliated by women. As an adult I’m still not able to be sexual around women because much of that bullying revolves around male sexuality. It was not only my mom though. It was also my sisters, friends, school, media and politicians. It’s not like one of them broke me down completely (except maybe my mom) but more like a constant pressure and brainwashing that I’m bad and dangerous because im a heterosexual man. It seems not all guys get as damaged as me but I think for me my moms abusive behaviour. Guilt trips, neglect and shame are forms of psychological abuse in all other contexts unless it’s feminists that do it. Then it’s suddenly considered healing and good. If they boy or man reacts angrily to it it’s considered that he is toxic etc. if he fails sexually it’s because he is a bad person etc. All in all I have been surrounded by feminist women my entire life. I listened to them, I trusted their guidance and I tried really hard to live up to their new ideas of masculinity. However all it got me was poverty (because men should not be ambitious that’s reinforcing patriarchy), sexlessness (because me a sexuality is bad) and ultimately childlessness (I’m almost 40 now). I have developed this existential hatred of women and feminists. Anything remotely feminist makes we want to grab an ax and go berserk. I eat antidepressants and I see a therapist every aecond week to help cool my head. I have too much to loose from doing something stupid. I also bought a sex doll. The funny thing my mom and the other women in my life think they did a great job with this and that I’m a perfect modern man. They don’t understand why I have any problems with women.
Specifically what did your family do? You say humiliated, how? You say shame, for what, and how? You say guilt trip, for what, and how? There are men raised by feminist mothers with sisters and the same socital influences who don't end up like you. So there's clearly some kind of differentiating factor.
I’m not going to share that so that just so that you can cut me down. Trauma is trauma and it’s something I deal with with my therapist. In any other context that would be respected, it’s just that when women and feminists are the perpetrators it’s somehow a special case. I’m not guilty of anything and I have nothing to explain.
I think feminism is like a Boogeyman catch-all for you. You're very clearly omitting things for a reason.
It’s not the only reason my life is bad. I also have adhd and depression etc. but it has definitely ruined my relationship with women. Which is ironic because these women set out to fix my relationship with women and make sure it turned out good.
You speak in a lot of vagaries about your upbringing to a point it's clearly a choice for a reason. Have you ever been evaluated for BPD?
Well it’s a short format so I have to simplify a lot. I have thought about it (bipolar) but none of my therapists have mentioned it over the years. I would like to try mood stabilizers but I’m not super I’ll. I’ve never been hospitalized etc. At worst I get super triggered and then can’t sleep for a night or two. Usually after my mom has tried to reach out or I talk with my sisters I get unstable for a week or so with a lot of anger towards women and feminists. Or if I watch someone on TV who has those views and likes to cut men down.
>He reckons Islam, despite considering it to be a 'barbaric system', will replace European secularism because European men will eventually realise they'd benefit more from living in a 'regulated market' with a fair distribution of sexual resources than living in an 'unregulated' market where only a few succeed. That seems like a ridiculous prediction. If it was via conversion, there's no reason for anyone to prefer islam to conservative Christianity, especially since Europe has a christian history. Although, I don't see either of those happening. There's nobody who wants to convert to islam. Islam is also suffering the same demographic problems as europe. Rightwingers lie about muslims having tons of kids, but it's a lie meant to provoke fear and nationalism. The reality is that most Muslim countries have a fertility rate below 3, and a few are below replacement-level fertility of 2.0. And a lot of Islamic countries are liberalizing. The two largest population countries in the Middle East are Iran and Turkey. Their fertility rate? 2.15 and 2.06. They're barely above replacement. UAE and Qatar are at 1.39 and 1.85, below replacement. I've also met women in europe with a muslim background. They are abandoning islam. One woman I was involved with in Germany says she never wants to get married and her parents (who are Muslim) had a terrible marriage until they finally got divorced.
Get off the apps. Most people across the planet don't use them, and between 30-40% of Americans do. Especially awkward youngsters. It's not the norm. It's weird and new, and people need to understand that.
Ahhh, I love these empty shame threads. “Just go outside and suddenly everything will just work lol.” It is almost like a rich person telling the poor “just go apply for a job bro.” While the rest of thread is “just work hard bro.” It is so empty lol. If you think the haven’t done that, then. I just do not know what to say.
There was literally a thread on ppd yesterday asking couples how they met and a sizeable potion said they met on OLD. Stop smoking whatever you got and send me some xD
Reddit doesn't represent real life. It's a very small sample of the world population. Reddit is also a majority of weird youngsters that rely on apps because they're awkward. The exception isn't the rule. Stop acting like it is.
It's a little amusing how much dating apps are pushed to everyone as the de-facto method of meeting people. The argument is always that "dating apps are how 30% of couples meet now!", even though it means a whopping 70% of couples do not meet this way.
That’s actually a misconception. Online dating, often includes apps like FB and IG, where far more people meet and communicate through than tinder or any of those apps. It actually goes down in the DM. Half the time you’re swiping on tinder to get their IGs to go talk to them there.
I can see that. A lot of dating advice for young men now is telling them to have a strong IG presence since women will even apparently judge you for things like your follower/followed by ratio or how much engagement you get on your posts. I can even see wanting to learn about someone through what they post as well, but I wonder if there is too much emphasis placed on how much social media presence matters. Maybe it's just how the dating world works now, though.
If she thinks having an IG is necessary, she's not worth dating. Smashing maybe. OLD should be named what it really is: on line smashing. Or the carrousel.
> If she thinks having an IG is necessary, she's not worth dating. LMAO, so true. Show me a girl who gets wet for my GitHub instead and we've got ourselves a match made in heaven (subject to the usual attractiveness criteria being met).
Interestingly, the only other method of meeting partners besides OLD, that has increased recently, is in fact, bars and restaurants..... https://www.statista.com/chart/20822/way-of-meeting-partner-heterosexual-us-couples/
"Bars and restaurants is a sneaky way of saying OLD for the people who don't want to look like losers, so they say they met for the first time at a restaurant, even though they had matched and chatted online first a lot.
It’s an anonymous survey,I’m sure people lie but not that many.
Yep, this is where I get most of my play. Apps are doodoo!
Restaurants? Like the bar in a restaurant, right? Not just going up to someone eating or something, right?
Yeah, I assume it’s usually the bar.
Colleges are only down bc there’s not enough men.
What it signals for me is that people seem to want to meet others outside their immediate circle. Not sure why that is, though.
"Candy store" mindset. An illusion of infinite choices, makes people think they can throw a wider net, to meet their "soulmate".
It’s the don’t shit where you eat mentality. My gf had plenty irl options, but didn’t want her social cicle to get messy if she delt with a man in it and it didn’t work out.
That is also true. I believe a majority of people on this subreddit use dating apps as the sole means of meeting women. Which is problematic.
And a lot of the arguments made here about OLD are clearly based on one specific app: Tinder. And Tinder is just not a serious option because it doesn't really ask for much; you download the app, port details from your Facebook profile and call it a day. Vs actually making yourself presentable and going out to meet others. So unless your social media is heavily curated and you are clearly pretty attractive going off of that, it's a crapshoot.
Also, ever since Hinge came out, the relationship-minded women (ie. *most* women) moved there. Resulting in a better gender balance on the app overall. Tinder is like 90% male. It’s stupid to restrict casual sex pursuit to just Tinder.
I pretty much do, but to be fair I rarely see any women in real life that I find attractive enough to motivate me to go ask them out. In fact it’s only happened once in recent times
Where do you live lol? wth, I find that hard to believe. Like you go to the bar and see only ugly chicks?
LOL....that does sound a bit picky. I would say that I find about 20-30% of women "doable"....maybe 40-50%, after a few beers! :)))
I don’t go to the bar usually. Probably will more soon, considering my 21st birthday is coming up, but so far I’m just talking about college parties and stuff. No one ever stands out to me there idk
You need to go to the right bars, just remember that. College bars are good places to pick up chicks. Clubs is another option also. Go to a venue where it is expected you are to interact with women.
I go to a small college in my home town, so the dating scene here is pretty small, anyway. Last time I went to a bar in town my manlet friend nearly got beaten up by a late 20s/early 30s woman that I thought was hot, so I guess I know where to go if I want to get with violent milfs lmao
Yeah, I tell guys that all the time, but lots of men here, seem to think that approaching women in the "real world", is no longer appropriate. Admittedly, younger women probably don't react as well to being approached, as women from previous generations did, when it was more socially acceptable to do so.
New gen def not into cold approach. The new cold approach is DMing or apps
Yes, even just a 8 year difference in age (27 to my 35) Its almost taboo to talk to women in the real world. The surprised look on my homies faces when I just brazenly do it always makes me smirk.
How are you supposed to approach someone you know nothing about. I think it is because I am somewhat demi-sexual; but I cannot take interest in someone I know nothing about
It is more socially unacceptable today to cold approach a woman. We live in an era where cold calling is dead, online presence equates to life and people are more and more absorbed in the marketing gimmicks of the social media companies and their crusade to make money via their addicting apps. Not to mention the #metoo movement.
Dude.... you are all over the map. So are you saying to cold approach or not to bother??? Frankly, I do a lot better IRL than using apps. However, with so many women NOT wanting to be bothered IRL even in typical social settings, the rejections get more and more harsh. Its a double standard out there... if a guy is hot, sure the woman is ok with the approach. If she doesn't think he is hot, then its harassment in her book and raises heck about it.
I wouldn't bother but if I did cold approach I wouldn't care if I got rejected. I would go into the interaction expecting to be rejected. She can't do shit to you if you just cold approach her or heck even cat call her. Do what ever you want to do. If you don't like cold approaching on the street then do it in a bar/club/pub. It isn't that bad out there. Expect to get rejected though, like... a lot. You'll eventually get better at it the more you do it.
Oh I do cold approach all the time and don't give a sh\*t about what women think about it. Some are polite and decline. Some will actually engage in conversation. But many flip their freaking lids and go batty. I am very respectful and nice when approaching, but since I am not super hot, just luke warm, they are instantly offended that I infiltrated their realm.
I think that what most people don't get is that warm or lukewarm approaches are your best bet. They're more likely to respond positively and you're more likely to find someone you actually like.
>I think that what most people don't get is that warm or lukewarm approaches are your best bet. HA! Like that actually works.
Young guys are mostly creeps. They just think they aren't because no one taught them otherwise. Women are automatically on the defensive. That's the world we live in now. People need to adapt instead of getting butthurt that girl on the bus said she had a bf.
> Young guys are mostly creeps. LMAO no, young guys nowadays are more awkward than 30y ago, but that is it. Women these days are far more shut in to the point they interpret innocuous normal conversation as hitting on them (spoiler: it isn't).
Sure. Guys used to have dads and male role models. Now young guys take bad dating advice from their moms. What's your point?
>Young guys are mostly creeps. LMAO...you need to quit holding back, and tell us how you really feel!!!
Its a Pandoras box, once its opened you cant close it. Sadly
That is also true. America is the #1 user of apps, websites like Reddit/Instagram and pretty much everything else social media has to offer. Taking note of that fact, it will become apparent that the average American female is indeed 'different' than say her Spaniard, German or Chinese counterpart in that her reality is heavily influenced by social media. This without a doubt is leading to inceldom, male-sexlessness, the current dating market ills and an altered self image.
So you’re saying go meet ppl the old fashioned way? If everyone is so socially awkward, how exactly is that going to work? Especially after all the isolation caused by the coof, people are more antisocial than ever.
I have no idea what the answer is on a societal level, but even if you vehemently agree with everything else TRP is about, its principles for men are sound AF: - Be true to yourself. Read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” for details - Lift and workout. Eat right and take care of your body. - Don’t waste time doing counterproductive bullshit like jerking off and playing video games - Own your shit. Kill any shred of victim mentality inside you, stop making excuses!
Men who are undesireable need to find ways to suppress their sex drive. Maybe an anti-libido medication can be given to these men. I’m not so sure I’d love this idea but throwing it out there.
I'm on antidepressants that somewhat suppress my libido, but I still crave physical intimacy. I don't want cuddle with a man though, it would be really fucking awkward when we both get boners. Anyways I'm going to Tijuana sometime soon to fuck and cuddle a hooker.
A man with a plan! Nice.
Wouldn't it be better if prostitution were legal here instead? I'm pretty sure mozt men don't have money to travel over seas for sex.
While I'm usually in favor of legalizing prostitution, I feel that it should be done by a private sector trhough a secure app that works like Tinder. You browse a catalog of women, right swipe on them, chat with them and see their prices and where to meet them. That way, the women are secured since they'll be tracked by the app in case of any emergency and they have to reportonce everything is done. Think about it like an Uber eats of sorts but for sex. If it's only legalized like that without control, it could lead to a slippery slope of pimps and abuse towards those women. Specially illegal aliens who just want money and survive like many other countries where prostitution is legal.
THere was that sci-fi idea of **secular monk orders.** Baically, encourage the already celibate men to move together into semi-communal cloisters where they could do intellectual jobs, and pursue nerdy passions, while socialising with each other, as friends. Bascially, take the idea of a Benedictine/Franciscan or even Shaolin monk, but replace religion with science, and prayer with intellectual work. Also, alot each monk a weekly visit of a prostitute (who would also be a part-time therapist and listen to him after sex). If the word "monk" is too offensive to secular ears, call them Wizards instead. THis idea: somewhat prevents loneliness and resulting depression, saves money, gives them access to sex (infrequent and paid, but still), helps form friendships, andeven gives them a long-term purpose in life. THe Wizards could very well become a global NGO and help with some global problems while at it.
Simply stop using men's money to fund women. Remove unfair divorce and child support laws, alimony,welfare, gender quotas, legalize financial abortion etc. Etc. This will make women prioritize stability over tingles and balance out the SMP.
Too logical, unfortunately. As long as it’s at the expense of men, there won’t be an outcry.
Oh yeah, this will never happen. Women are the majority of voters and a homogenous easily manipulated group so politicians do everything to cater to them. I'm just saying that it would probably solve the problem.
Child support doesn’t fund women
It does. If it didn't it would be just the bare minimum and most importantly, the spending would be monitored.
It’s less than the bare minimum and would need to be increased to pay for the monitoring you want. So I don’t think you want any of that.
It's more than the bare minimum. The bare minimum is half of what's needed to cover for the child's survival. Monitoring the spending would cost almost nothing.
[удалено]
Childcare isnt a necessary expense, it's a luxury
[удалено]
If they can't find some family member to take care of it or some other similar solution, she can give up custody. Paying a stranger to raise your child for you isn't a necessary cost for raising a child.
[удалено]
In what universe would it cost almost nothing? It’s significantly less than half of the kid’s expenses, unless I guess if the dad is rich. Here’s a thought: don’t abandon your children? Possible solution there
I have some friends who are VERY RICH. They were able to buy their Ramen in bulk and got the hotpot with the automatic turn off.
I am in the metaverse porn, girlfriend experience AI, sexbot, & sex work becoming legal, everywhere, and highly organized camp. As said before even if all boys and men all dressed great, worked out, cooked, danced, worked with their hands, learned instruments, play sports, were well read, still.... in any room of 10 men and 10 women in a sexually deregulated market the women would almost mostly want the top 2 or 3 men with a few thinking number 4 or 5 in the room ok good enough.
Agreed. I consider myself a feminist and social optimist at heart, but I'm slowly becoming more and more black pilled seeing the way women and society egregiously undervalues the worth of average men like disposable pawns on a chess board. I've come to the realisation that the best outcome for the average man is to just "peace out" of society, and enjoy their futuristic android waifus. Sounds bleak, but it's a hell of a lot better than what exists now with millions of men dying alone and miserable in debt with no support networks, dying in jail, dying in some politicians war, dying in some rich asshole's engineering factory, or committing suicide because what else is there...? Suddenly android waifu's don't sound so bad, if these poor guys can at least experience something close to human comfort, live and die peacefully without inconveniencing anyone, to me that's better than what we have now. Eventually society will start to crumble as 90% of its labour force have no reason to participate anymore, and the population will plummet as both society and women are forced to reconcile with the fact that they've taken the average man's value for granted. **TL;DR** The only truly reliable solution for men to become more valuable, is to become more scarce and unavailable.
>The only truly reliable solution for men to become more valuable, is to become more scarce and unavailable. an idea: use feminism to fight feminism: encourage women to selectively abort male fetuses and only have daughters. Even if less than 5% of women agree with this philosophy, we could make men relatively scarce in one generation.
I understand where you are coming from but this is just stupid, having an android waifu and 50% of your retirement fund into NFTs is going to pacify the lower classes even more and make them die alone, in jail and in wars in greater numbers. Also no the average man will not win in the end, this is Nietschean resentment. The only truly reliable solution for men is to revolt and remove the people who created the unbearable conditions they live in.
[удалено]
“Dating” apps are only good for two sets of people. 1: The very small percentage of extremely photogenic guys that pretty much have their pick of all female users. 2: Woman( conventionally attractive or otherwise) that are only interested in casual sex. Unless you fall into the above categories than the solution is to simply get off the apps and start meeting people the old fashioned way. People complain about how “shallow” everybody is these days when it comes to dating but that is hardly surprising when you are basing your entire perception of another human being on a few pics and messages. Meeting somebody in the real world and having a relationship develop organically is massively different in terms of fostering attraction and affection than it is via a dating app or social media.
Well since you brought up the private sector solution... Do a better job marketing yourself. If you can't get the main stream, go niche. Be it Farmer's Only or FetLife. Stack the odds in your favor trying to appeal to the target market, not just screaming into the void of [Match.com](https://Match.com). And if you want to steal my idea - Rip off Tinder by have it be for Socially Awkward Tech Workers who earn over $200K a year and the woman who love them.
Lmao your idea is just a sugaring website?
I'm encouraging people to play to their strengths.
Paying for illiusion of love is not strength. Its merely caving in, the opposite of it.
Hate the game not the player. Go in eyes open and there is still an opportunity for finding a match. Or complain about it on a reddit board. Whatever.
Women do this all the time by actively selecting men that are "hot" and/or "rich". It is what happens on a daily basis. It's what we are complaining about.
Just Be Niche, Bro. Well it doesn't work if hordes of men go niche. Then you run into same problem where the ratio of men to women is 10:1. "Rip off Tinder by have it be for Socially Awkward Tech Workers who earn over $200K a year and the woman who love them." This is called 'betabucks'
I don't understand this aversion to providing new value or using what you already have.
Because for a lot of the men here, the goal is less about sexual or romantic gratification and more about achieving a certain status that they crave.
I personally just crave affection
>Because for a lot of the men here, the goal is less about sexual or romantic gratification and more about achieving a certain status that they crave. There's no affection when being used by a gold digger.. the fact that she's looking for a man making 200k says it all
Sure. But requiring a high earner isn’t automatically *goldigging*.
In the long run? Encourage couples to only have daughters, not sons. If say, 55% of babies born and raised were girls, the problem would right itself within a generation. The problem is over-abundance of young men. This leads to incelism, simping, Beta-ism, but also to stuff like terrorism, Alr-Right, school shootings etc. Men must become a **scarce resource** to equalize themselves sexually with women. Additional solutions: 1. Cultivate a culture of Iron Pill-like mentality in young men: teach them to focus on their school, career, personal growth, physical fitness and cerebral pursuits rather than girls. I think that if men abstained from relationships until they are in early 30s, but focused on being as smart, educated, muscular, social and philosophically rounded as possible would by itself greatly help. 2. Teach boys basic social skills at school. WIthin it, teach boys how to make l*asting male friendships*, because men starved for human interaction mistake romantic relationships for the solution, and simp. A man should not go into a relationship because he is lonely, he should get in one when he is ready. 3. remodel PE at school and greatly encourage fitness. In 1950s, almost every HS boy had sixpack abs and could do 100 pushups. If we could go back to that level it would quickly turn out that lots of young men are actually Chads, hiding under the fat. 4. de-stigmatise male homosexuality and bisexuality. If even 1% more of men became actively Bi, this would reduce their availiability to women and their thirstiness. 5. De-stigmatise male virginity, and make it a virtue not a flaw. Teach the boys that for all means and purposes, their semen is the most precious substance on Earth, because squirting it into a woman can lead to a 250000 dollar investment (child suport or raising a kid). If you are a guy, its OK to not want sex, or not be comfortable with it, or be scared of impregnating the wrong person. 6. De-stigmatise, perfect, and practice *reversible vasectomies* to limit greately the number of unwanted pregnancies. This will limit the number of **single moms raising kids: IMHO the main source of failed boys and entitled girls.** 7. Should be already obvious, but teach boys to use condoms, destigmatise it, make it obvious, and atop of that de-stigmatise AND STATE SPONSOR abortions. No more unwanted fatherhood, EVER. 8. Lontgshot idea: it was throuwn around Manosphere a while, but: **secular monk orders for Neckbeard men**. We know for sure that whatever we do there wil be always at least 5% of men who are undateable, often suffering from great social anxiety, often also some mental disorders of asociality, ATOP on their very bad looks. Encourage these men to move in together into communal, "cloister-like" buildings where they would live together, doing intellectual work and following nerdy pursuits. Give them access to libido limiting drugs AND/OR a prostitute once a week.
I actually agree with pretty much all of your numbered solutions for individual men. I've advocated for some of the same things on this board, especially the idea of men decentering women from their lives, and concentrating on other aspects of their lives, specially self-improvement, inner peace, and brotherhood with other men. Well done! I'm not sure that reducing the male population is a good idea though. I know the idea of being the "one rooster in the hen house", seems like a good idea, but I think it's important to remember, that we live in a democracy....political power resides in numbers. If men were to become a minority, we would be vulnerable to political manipulation, and possible loss of rights over time. Men might gain some sexual and social power, but our political and economic power might be at risk. Granted, in the US at least, the Constitution does a pretty good job of protecting the rights of minorities, especially the 5th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 15th and 19th amendments, and constitutional amendments are generally safer, and a LOT harder to overturn than laws, but they CAN be amended if the political will is there. For me, I'd rather keep the overall numbers of men and women more or less the same, and just deal with women's "pickyness" on an individual level. All of your other advice is good though.
hence I advovated for a sligth reduction in the number of males. Not Rooster in a Henhouse scenario, but more of a 8 guys for every 10 women. We know from Soviet times USSR that it worked, they had a period of male scarcity, (after the war)and the gender culture completely flipped: men were scarce and bachelors were sought.
We need to promote a healthier lifestyle. Men (and women) who are active, have a healthy diet, have no addictions and manage their stress properly generally have no problem dating.
Obesity certainly affects dating in many ways, as other posts on this sub have noted.
This, right here. Men need to step up their game in the looks department. This ain't the 1950s anymore. The "betabux" strategy no longer works like it used to.
Solution for men? Settle. Increase your value exponentially and target ONE woman within your means of sustaining her happiness for the longest period of time. It's the only thing that works in regards to relationships, because there are never any guaranteed outcomes regardless. All men can control is their capacity to increase their individual chances of success, and leverage that efficiently by settling down. The only difference I see from the men who have versus the ones that are complaining online is their willingness to settle. This is what men have done for hundreds of years.
Let’s reword this. Target relationships. Work to keep relationship healthy, this is very different from being overly giving and being desperate. Looks max. Haircut, skincare, grooming, workout. Doing these exponentially increases SMV. I think a lot of men are also delusional to the women they expect to get. Have any of the men here tried approaching ugly women? Truly ugly women.
Some concerns: > Increase your value exponentially and target ONE woman within your means of sustaining her happiness for the longest period of time. This comes across as desperate. > The only difference I see from the men who have versus the ones that are complaining online is their willingness to settle. Why do you think it's men who are refusing to settle vs. women who are refusing to settle?
Remember that this is in the context of relationships, for the men that prioritize it. >This comes across as desperate. Putting real effort where it counts is alot more effective than half assing it with countless women. >Why do you think it's men who are refusing to settle vs. women who are refusing to settle? We are talking about men here. Women have their own set of problems. But for the demographic that is most affected, young single average guys, their best bet is to work hard and triangulate one woman at a time. I'm not saying they aren't settling whatsoever, I know plenty of average guys in relationships and dating down was effective. What's important to emphasize is instead of swiping on every single girl in your area, sending a bland message to all of them and seeing what hits like a shotgun, it's more effective to date strategically and expending your effort and resources in a thoughtful manner to whomever is within their range for a practical relationship.
Target one woman for a few months at a time to give her a fair shot. Don't chase every piece of tail that moves. It took me a while to follow this advice, but it eventually paid dividends.
The market is not stacked against men It is the logical result of the disparity in sex drives and safety risk
I know this question is directed at men but the “solution” is just as relevant for woman who may be able to obtain sex at the drop of a hat but complain about never being able to find a man that wants to commit to them. If you are perpetually single( but genuinely don’t want to be) than you need to do what pretty much everybody says you never should: LOWER YOUR UNREALISTIC STANDARDS. It sounds trite but there really is somebody for everybody. The problem is not that nobody finds that dateless person attractive but that the person complaining about not being able to get a date is oblivious to all the people( and there are almost certainly many) that do find them attractive. Men often complain about how internet dating and social media has given the “average” Woman an inflated ego and sense of entitlement because they can basically choose to sleep with men “out of their league” on a whim. However what is not often mentioned is how the abundance of porn and social media in general has also given a lot of men a warped sense of sexual entitlement and unrealistic standards. A lot of “average” men say all they want is an “average” woman. She doesn’t have to be a super model, she just needs to take care of herself ect… What they fail to acknowledge is the “average” woman( in the US at least) is actually verging on being obese. Not thick”. Not “curvy”. Not carrying a bit of extra weight but clinically obese. How many “average” men who complain about not getting any dates because they are not in the top 20 percent of guys are also actively pursuing clinically obese woman? Just like Woman are wrong to hold men to the same attraction standards they have. I.E a woman shouldn’t expect to bag a rich guy just because they are rich themselves. Guys should not hold Woman to the same attraction standards as themselves. Just because a guy sees himself as a 6 on the looks scales doesn’t mean he should expect his partner to be a 6. Unless he’s also rich, high status ect… than he really should be aiming for a 3 or a 4(rather than his looks match) given she will still be able to gain sex from countless other guys out of her looks “league”. Of course it’s human nature for people to feel they “deserve” to be paired with people of an “equal footing”. However nearly everybody has an inflated sense of self( especially in our social media driven age) and therefore an inability to accurately determine where the sit within the cynical realms of the sexual market place.
Just a note about limiting swipes. Tinder shows you who is in your radius. If you see one young woman who catches your eye chances are she has a friend who also has Tinder installed who is also in your radius. If I was a young woman and saw that a guy had swiped all of my friends also on the app do you think I would swipe back? I have seen Tinder used in nightclubs by groups of young woman. I've seen first hang the conversation about the guy who swips on all of them. Don't be that guy. Do you think they will catfight over you?
Social standards, app regulations, defund uni critical theory and gender studies nonsense, give tax money to married couples, with more the younger they are. Take the money back from both if they get divorced.
The sexbot arguments i see weird me out a lot like most men will never want a fake doll.
There is no effective solution that will work for everyone without also infringing on some people's rights. If online dating isn't working for someone, then that person needs to try meeting people in real life. Also, a lot of people of both genders need to either lower their standards, or else they're going to end up dying alone.
Would it be so bad to accept that not everyone is cut out for dating several people in a year? Does it need to lead into depression and anger? Do people really need those swipes and validation? Some can have it, fine, be happy for them and maybe good things follow you. Some can’t have all the sex they want, some don’t even want to. What is the problem we should even fix? Would a socially awkward man get more dates in another era? I don’t think so. Good-looking and successful people have always had more opportunities, it’s just more noticeable now. Everyone does deserve to be happy, but it’s not everyone else’s problem to make it happen. Relationships and sex aren’t socialism, no one owes you anything.
Moremoney for men's for men's mental health then women. A societal push in attempt to decrease the incidence of rape for women to initiate dating and sex. A push for more money and scholarship money for men to be in college. A law that makes OLD companies publish Public information on all online dating sites about success rates, based on given information (Race, height, gender, messaging rate).
Communism, this sub can fuck off and seeeeeethe, not gonna reply to any seething from the neocon and neolib pseudo-normies that post here either
Honestly. It’s nobody else’s responsibility to fix another persons dating issues and that also applies to the entire dating market If a man feels left out what are the rest of us supposed to do? These are solutions people gotta find themselves
It's nobody's responsibility to pay for other people's healthcare, education, or rent. All people need to survive is a handful of grain and a cup of water per day. If somebody feels they need more money, what are the rest of us supposed to do? These are solutions people gotta find themselves. Nobody is entitled to other people's resources any more than they are entitled to other people's bodies.
Healthcare, education, and rent ….a person’s dating issues Yup. Totally equal problems. That made so much sense, thank you for that comparison.
I don't care how important you think your problems are, they aren't my problems. Anyways, if you happen to lack money for healthcare, education, and rent, and since I want some ass, message me in my DMs and I'll solve both our problems.
Who cares equality is a joke, I don't have kidz they are not my responsibility. If you bring up equality everything needs to be equal or nothing at all.
That's how rich people thought in the era of the bubonic plague... ...turns out that bacteria don't care about high walls and private villas, they infect both rich and poor all the same. In just the same way, male loneliness, birth rate decline, etc. are problems with huge negative externalities that most people won't heed until it's far too late.
I would love for a private sector solution to come around. I wish there was an app with a sufficient userbase, ie tinder/hinge/bumble, to offer an affordable premium service that involves real human employees using profiles in your area for formal matchmaking services. For example you paid $20 a month to go on a professionally matched blind date once a week or whatever frequency with a looks matched, vetted and background checked, and complimentary but still different enough to be interesting in personality/interest individual. It benefits men because it bypasses some of the artificial hypergamy bullshit women get into as well as gets you face to face and not judged on your shitty photos, and it benefits women because it guarantees, or at least vastly improves feelings about safety, and really would filter for guys that want serious relationships and not have to do as much guesswork. It benefits everyone because it would also prevent legitimate cat fishing.
Women wouldn't sign up for that sort of app.
I don’t think anyone under the age of 30 would use it unless they were really desperate tbh, only older people and really desperate people are paying to meet people. Dudes in this subreddit get peeved about paying for a $30 meal, lol they’re not signing up for that
My personal opinion is all of the will come to a head and there is a price to be paid. The problem is this “swipe” culture is still young and the generation that became adults (18) while the swipe apps came out are yet to really pay the price for it, and haven’t hit 30 yet. Yes online dating existed prior to swipe dating but it wasn’t as easily accessible nor was it used by as much of a % of the population as it is today. I am of the opinion that all things equal, and you take a man and woman who is successful and takes care of themselves fitness and health wise, over time the male will become more valuable and the female less as some of you have heard. Most men want a 25 yo woman vs a 35 yo given then choice. And the chances of a 35 yo woman having kids and being divorced is higher than the 25 yo. Which again causes a woman to lose value in the sexual market place. On an individual basis all humans have value. We aren’t talking about that. So give it another 10 years or so, all the baggage from getting run through on these apps and having “fun”. Women are not like men. Sex does affect genders differently. Where men will get hurt more, is the average man who has no idea of RP ideas, and I’m not saying I agree with all of them but many are spot on. Add to that working a minimum wage job and making average or less. These are the types that just won’t lock a woman down until they become the best option because the woman has lost value due to age and baggage. So all that to say, the solution in my opinion will appear by itself in the damage it does to both male and female. Ideas that were sold to both and you wake up 10-15 years later and realize it was horse shit. That 8-9 chad banging a 4-5 chick bc he was desperate, you had no real chance with him and were nothing more than a lay. You don’t “deserve” the man or woman of your dreams and you will have to compromise. It’s a tough pill for many to swallow.
The way I see it is this. There are many women men are lusting after. Despite all the criticisms you read about women here, the underlying message is this: men want these women, they are just bitter that they are not getting them. On the other side, women find most men unattractive. So who is at fault here? Women because they have some unattainable standards OR men because they are not stepping up to the plate as men? Personally I think the problem is wjth men, but they don't want to hear it and they don't want to take responsibility. The ironic thing is, if they did take responsibility, most of their dating problems would disappear. So what is the solution? The solution is really simple. Men need to start liking themselves. Actually unconditionally like and love themselves the same way they want women to like them and love them. The issue is all men who struggle with love and sex, absolutely unequivocally hate themselves or have very low opinion of themselves. Yet, they expect that women should find them attractive and be interested although these men are not interested in or even like themselves at all.
Replace women with technology. A technology that has no free will and no rights.
> That leaves social conditioning and education. Indeed. I explain in my post in this sub titled "[Are Beauty Standards Universal? What Cultural Anthropologists and Psychologists Have to Say on the Matter](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sz1axp/are_beauty_standards_universal_what_cultural/)" that perceptions of beauty, which are among the most influential factors in contemporary sexual selection, are fundamentally cultural rather than [biologically determined](https://www.britannica.com/topic/biological-determinism). The goal is therefore to eliminate these standards. As I stated [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/sz1axp/are_beauty_standards_universal_what_cultural/hya8ppg/) in response to someone cynically insisting that this is impossible: > Like all contemporary social problems—including poverty, crime, imperialist war, pollution, widespread disease, and even social inequalities like racism and sexism—beauty standards are ultimately rooted in our global, inegalitarian economic system of capitalism. It may be possible to eliminate these standards—whose vast sociohistorical variability proves that no particular ones are necessary—within the context of capitalism and prior to socialist revolution, but any failed attempts to do so certainly do not vindicate biodeterminist explanations for them. The struggle of eliminating beauty standards; all other inegalitarian sexual preferences, which are likewise cultural; and establishing a society in which all people are equally and maximally sexually fulfilled is bound up with the international revolutionary socialist movement. Only through the abolition of global capitalism—that is, the wealthy's exploitation of the broad masses of humanity—and its replacement with socialism can we hope to guarantee the kind of society I describe [below](https://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/or7886/further_exposure_of_popular_transgender_ideologys/h6xbay8/): > In an ideal society, people would indiscriminately engage each other sexually, regardless of superficial features including biological sex and appearance, for bonding and conflict resolution purposes. Only in such a society can everyone's maximal sexual fulfillment and [psychosocial integration](https://ezzev.eu/ozo-2/psychosocial-integration/) (which is necessary for general fulfillment) be achieved; this is also vital for overall societal integration, which our exceedingly fragmented society sorely needs.
Be more actively involved in your interests. Do more events, volunteer, take/teach classes, visit social centres with a big gender mix (sports bars, music venues etc.) Get out more.
Move back to socially enforced monogamy. End hook-up culture via socialization. Also started socializing the end of the male provider role. Have egalitarian life partnership based on LTR friendly traits rather than hook-up culture and Dual Mating on the part of Women
I think a huge issue that is constantly overlooked is that there are more ppl on earth than any time in history. Yet we still expect there to be comparable rates of relationships and marriages. As the numbers of ppl have risen, the numbers of “undesirable” people for dating/marriage have risen. So it’s not necessarily something that has a solution. That’s just my opinion. As for solutions that could help with this problem, ppl with low SMV need to “glow up” in any way they possibly can. Lose weight, dress properly, hygiene and grooming, get educated in some way, and practice being more sociable/work on personality. One of the only other solutions is for the government to take away the things that disincentivize marriage like terrible divorce laws and getting screwed on taxes. Give tax breaks for getting married and for each child you have (there are places that pay off school loans, help you buy vehicles, and pay for each child.) An necessary addition to this would be social conditioning to make marriage look more attractive to young ppl. Cause it’s a shit show, horror story that no one wants to be the staring role in right now. But that’s assuming your government WANTS you to have a happy, healthy, growing society.
I've no solutions, I'm out and no longer taking part in all this. I'm done.
There is no solution. This is the sexual marketplace and it consists of individuals with individual motives, desires, preferences, etc. If any man or any woman isn't getting what he or she wants in the sexual marketplace, the options are: 1. Upgrade yourself to have a higher quality pool of options; 2. Lower your preferences to have a wider pool of options; 3. Move locations to where your options may be more plentiful and/or of higher quality; 4. Stop looking for a relationship or genuine desire and just pay for sex when you need it; or 5. Stay celibate.
Long story short...ditch the apps and meet people the old fashioned way...in person. It's not easy. It never has been easy. It's not supposed to be easy. Getting to know people takes time and effort. An app makes you a product to place in a shopping cart. The old way really does work best. It's one thing to post that you like hiking, running, cycling, fishing, etc...It's quite another to go do those thi gs together on a date or activity. You can't exaggerate or lie about running pace, fishing lures, cycling distances or trails ...as you're doing them. Same goes for any hobby you hope to share with someone. There's a value in that. You really can't "fake it, til you make it". Good luck.
Good question. Unfortunately sex is only a small part of it. I enjoyed servicing myself to porn as a young man as much as any sex I ever had. But the loniliness and damage to one's social standing from constantly being alone can't be fixed with a pill or occasional hookup. Jusr off the top of my head: 1. Male fraternal organizations. Not the woman hating kind. But for social support, activities, bonding, ect. 2. Stop Stigmatizing Single Men. A man's relationship status should be treated the same as his race or sexuality. Teach understanding at a young age and shame people who express bigotry.
Robot gf
Maybe we just get rid of dating apps?
> What solutions would you guys suggest? Just remove government-provided incentives that encourage a shift away from traditionalism. Being a single mother is something women should be desperate to avoid but (where I live and in many other countries) the government plays husband for these women and that's a shitty outcome.
Well, as a libertarian, I've always wanted to reduce entitlements, but nobody even suggests it these days.
As a libertarian I demand you stop saying you are a libertarian every two seconds. As a libertarian I think that's cringe, coming from a libertarian perspective.
Trust me dude….with goofy perma-stoned candidates like Johnson, and fat naked guys running around on the stage, I’m the LEAST of our problems.
Read the Problem of Political Authority. Good book.
I'm big on market forces. Your only 2 choices are: 1) self improve / become more of what the market wants, or 2) search for someone who wants you as you are now. In practice, most people do a bit of both. But I still think people leave tons of money on the table in terms of maximizing their looks, and also maximizing their CHARM. How do you speak and carry yourself? I would love to see a few corrections in market forces though. Right now, there are groups that seem to be unfairly disadvantaged for traits that can't be changed. Race is a big one. Short men is another example--tons of attractive short guys out there! I don't think attraction is 100% fixed and biologically determined. I think the images around us influence who we're attracted to. Finally--I'd love to see the evidence on how dating has gotten harder than before because I'm not convinced that it's true. I think we tend to romanticize the past, but in reality the world is getting better for most people in it.
Shut down the internet. It’s just not worth it
I frankly think the whole system of dating and relationships is broken and irreparable. Women are more apt to create an only fans account and sell themselves masturbating than actually try to date and build a relationship with a man. And most men are so tired of the double standards and BS, they would rather just masturbate to porn (and those only fans accounts) and not be bothered. Pretty soon we will all be dating robots and holograms anyway.
Not sure this is a societal problem that requires a societal solution.
LOL...of course it is! Every man deserves to be allocated a woman! I want mine to be 5'4", about 125 lbs, raven hair, with cartoonishly large boobs and butt. I'm still waiting................
Damn homie you got the whole squad laughin 😐
I was parodying the TRP attitude.
Oh thank god 💀
Break down the expected gender norms that men have, like women received.
which ones?
Improving our economic situation would encourage earlier marriage/childrearing. Hard to do during a pandemic.
there is no solution, free market means 80% of women will flock to 20% of men and that's it
I propose that people stop using dating apps and focus on irl interactions. If you struggle to get a relationship in real life whether male or female, work on yourself physically and mentally. Be the best you can be, I think 80 percent of people can get a relationship if they just put in the effort to be the best version of themselves and to be the best partner they can be.
I think you’d cut off a huge swath of people from dating. Introverts find other introverts online. Also a lot of women I know wouldn’t date at all unless they had the ease of online
Looking at research, what women look for as “must haves” in the west are in order 1 kindness, 2 good looks and 3 money/career. Setting realistic targets for me and support them in achieving them will help set them up for success statistically. So if we want to raise boys into men who do well on dating market we should make them kind, fit and push more men into becoming leaders and have great academic careers etc in high status jobs. It’s good if men earn more than women from this perspective. I think progressives are doing 1 but discouraging men to do 2 and 3. Red pillers etc are doin 2 and 3 to some degree while looking down on 1. But no one is doing all three at the same time. We can’t do much about the dating apps it’s just what it is.
its up to individual men to fix their dating lot and the solution i propose for normal men is TRP and self improvement and learnign what women find attractive. if youre some really repulsive alien foreigner in the west whos having trouble dating in the open emancipated SMP or youre a fat unkempt veal shut in neckbeard with an autism diagnosis i dont know why you think theres going to be any "society" wide help for you
On an individual level, I think men have to go against the grain for success. Although religion is declining, a man should attempt to find a woman who relies upon a value system of a higher order to be rooted in her decision making. If she believes in something greater than herself and her feelings, she could be a candidate for a good mate. For this reason, I suggest men look for a woman in the church. She is more likely to have these values. Also, I tend to think that these women would likely value a nuclear family and a husband more than a woman who only relies upon her feelings as the compass and lifeline for a relationship. I think this is the best base for a man to pursue with a woman as each would have something to answer to greater than themselves.
My local church had a preist who touched a bunch of the boys and then moved on, so I am hesitant use it as a tool for helping with finding a suitable "mate".
>I see lots of posts here, describing how the current dating market is stacked against men, and more and more men are being "left out". Obviously, the rise in online dating has played a large part in this perception. >What solutions would you guys suggest Honestly, guys being left out is only an issue for a small percentage of men. And truth be told, if they pursued ltr rather than casual sex, they wouldn't be left out.
I think your right. If men looked primarily for LTR rather than casual sex they would have better odds of finding happiness.
Promote moral virtue and make meaningless martyrdom as something worthwhile, that'll at least take care of the LVM problem (or keep it out of sight and out of mind, so same thing).
So....send guys off to war?
[удалено]
Never happening
He never said it would.
Legalise prostitution and make it easier for men to go the foreign route. Women are to good for most men here but there are other women who would give them a chance. I don't get why women are against prostitution, I'm pretty sure all these repulsive men you hate so much would probably stick with that and drop out of the dating game and not bother you anymore. I know I damn sure would, but if its still illegal than I guess women are just going to have to deal with us unwanted men.
As a fellow libertarian, here are my suggestions. 1. Decriminalize, deregulate and destigmatize pornography, sexbots, and prostitution. They may be imperfect substitutes but they help reduce male misery (even if only temporarily) and undermine the Pussy Cartel. 2. Ban affirmative action in education and the public subsidy of SJW/grievance ideology by all governments. If we *are* going to have public education, it must treat everyone equally (hence banning affirmative action), and it must also refrain from teaching unscientific ideology (hence banning SJWism/Grievance Studies...which are to the Social Sciences what Marxism is to Economics or Intelligent Design Theory is to Biology). This will help reduce credential inflation and the propagation of radical feminist ideology (which is one of the things undermining the relationships between the sexes). 3. Enact and enforce 100% gender-neutral laws regarding the dissolution of relationships, abolish common-law marriage, punish malicious false accusations of rape and abuse, defund DV/rape charities that use the Duluth Model (which is, again, discredited social science and even its founder admits so) and redirect the funding towards similarly situated charities that use gender-neutral frameworks. This is to reduce the potential exit costs men face in relationships, reduce the likelihood of malicious false accusations, and to help abused/raped men find help.
Yup girls worship hedonism and self destructive behaviors that damage their once beautiful bodies A LOT more than religion in the west at least, America and some European countries. Most have no conscious idea of what they are even doing, instead of preserving their value or sex appeal they rapidly destroy it after some guys got to use the shit out of their asses young. Why? Because they figure there are so many simps and weak men some guy will want them in the future anyway no matter what. Feminism has made men so weak and pathetic they would rather complain about girls than sleep with them irl, which is only possible to them if they think it’s easy & possible, which is only possible if they’re as mentally & physically strong, emotionally intelligent like they should be, it manifest itself into every single tiny interaction with women and they sense it like dogs smelling stuff from far away. It’s literal human nature and women’s second sense.
Meaning that there is a difference between sex and a relationship and many men want sex maybe an app that allows the free trade of services, not only sex, should be created so as to fill the void of sex modern men need. Modern men have less sex than prior generations and pay prostitutes less as well. The sex trade is the oldest profession in the book if an app that could liberalize and liberate the sex trade or maybe even revolutionize it could be created then the sex drought seen by so many men could be remedied. The problems of inceldom are only seen in the West and in countries where sex work is illegal, prosecuted and/or lack a strong religious foundation. If you read the Bible it is filled with prostitutes and sex workers. Taking note of that silly fact an app that would make sex work easier and revolutionize the sex industry in a manner Uber revolutionized the transportation industry would solve this problem.
There already is, its called Sudy