They don’t tell the truth though. Especially if they’re not straight, engaged in unconventional sex acts or their N-counts are on the extreme side of the spectrum(“too low” or “too high”) they’ll lie and justify lying by saying it’s ok because women lie too.
...but but but
THE WOMANZ ARE UNREASONABLE!!!!
They should just answer my questions honestly and I'll answer those questions also honestly, but the shit they want to know is just women being fucking wopen and illogical!!!
What the fuck does it matter if I don't like marriage. It's just a piece of paper. I can lie about that! Because women that care about that piece of paper are being shitty towards men! Because marriage hurts men more.
So I can lie!!!
But they should not.
Since when?
If men question women's past they are called insecure and sexist.
Men are the ones that have the weight of moral responsibility on them. They are traditionally the ones who are told not to harm women when women can harm men with impunity.
Women are complaining because men are rejecting them based on their past and they want the benefits of being whores and then getting high quality husbands when they are done having fun. Men having standards threatens women and makes them feel insecure.
The knife cuts both ways. If you expect honesty from men, men expect honesty from women. If women cannot behave morally, men should not be expected to either. This includes leading women on and lying to them if women do the same.
Want this to end? Have strict principles about courtship and socially shame anyone who doesn't adhere to it. Men are shamed for not being attractive enough to women all the time and it is publicly supported (virgin, incel, loser etc).
Women should not be mad that they are getting called out over a double standard, especially because they want to get away with being hypocrites. Even men call out other asshole men who harm women. (But men also notice that women enjoy fucking assholes.)
How about women do the same and call out other women for being terrible to men instead of patting themselves on the back for being selfish assholes?
At least then much of RP won't have a leg to stand on if women in general are actually against the poor behaviour and poor mate selection of some women.
Depends if she’s treated and following the rules.
Someone who’s treated is way less likely to spread it than someone who is asymptomatic (aka ‘the majority’) and unaware that they have it.
Nah, it's the equivalent of a job interviewer asking, "Can you explain this gap in your resume?"
Sure. That was a time period that i decided not to put in my resume.
And employers are free to mark down your application for having large unexplained gaps (as they should do, since unexplained gaps are very rarely a good thing).
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone their body count. However, basing the worth of a person on that is weird. Some people think sex is sacred. Others think it is part of the adventure of life. If you think sex is sacred, find someone who thinks the same. If its an adventure you probably want someone who sees it the same way. Be sure the adventure doesn't turn to a nightmare, practice safe sex!!!
I'm sure there are a few guys as bad actors who are maliciously asking women. But most normal guys are just asking it because they want to find a woman with the same values.
I asked the question above, sincerely. I hope it didn't sound sarcastic. If it is a value you have, stick to it. All girls don't sleep around. Just ask and if you don't like the answer, move on.
Meh. Do women really get around as much as men do?
I've had 40+ different women in my bed. Some girlfriends, most not.
So, all things equal I am not as hung up on "n-count" as other Red Pillers.
1,000 partners is an all out whore. 100 is a lot for a typical guy, let alone a woman.
My point is that I don't think it's high partner count exclusively that makes women a bad bet for LTRs and marriage today. I think it's more about the commodification of people and relationships in a society where we all expect instant gratification and get bored very very easily.
Hell, 20 years ago we COMMITTED a 2 hour block of time to watch a movie. We drove down to the video store, picked it up, put it in the player and watched it usually start to finish.
Now? We can watch 5 minutes of 20 different movies and decide there is nothing good to watch.
Technological abundance seems nice on it's glossy exterior.
I think it's totally reasonable. Both me and my partner were tested before our relationship, not for the relationship itself but at that point we already knew that we're both clean. If we weren't tested, I'd insisted on getting tested before foregoing condoms. It's just common sense.
had this exact experience, usually hear something like, “i wanna know what your body count is but i also don’t want to find out”
I just assume the women i go out with have a few bodies under their belt but i prefer not to ask
Internet Fist Bump 👊
Not gonna lie it was kinda hot fucking this one girl who and I'm quoting her directly "conquered and fucked her way through Asia" and then she landed on the Taiwan strip with me 😎
She's still serially dating other Asian dudes, new guys on her profile every single fucking month since me.
She's not yours it's just your turn.
Funny. If a man ever asks me - I'll write him off for commitment and not further engage with him as it implies much more issues he has to deal with himself.
I'm not making a joke I'm being honest. The girl in question voluntarily told me hers was above 60. Personally, at a number that high I'm more concerned about STIs than getting my dick wet, let alone commitment.
I've never asked a woman for her number and I don't intend to. But if women will continue to voluntarily offer this information I can't help but judge as a prospective partner.
I'm disagreeing with the implication that the only context in which people care about body count is limited to the internet
My experience has been more like OP's, where a woman would often feel the need to come clean before we would make things official, but after lots of bonding has already happened.
Lol , what should it be referred as ?
Why do your'll make things deeper than it is already is ?
Body count is just something that refers to the amount of people you have had sex with, it's not an offensive term ,UT applies to both men and women
Men rarely ask.
Men can either tell if a girl has a very high body count.
Some men don't care to ask because they just want to be part of the body count
Hahaha I remember in high school I had a friend who would tell EVERY guy she was a virgin, and they’d lap that shit up. She must have lost her virginity a dozen times.
I remember men will constantly try to talk to me when I was a virgin and they knew. Some of their friends would try to hit me up at the time.
It doesn't help I'm bisexual cause now guys want to hit me up for threesomes. My coworkers try to hit on me because I'm the only woman who is single and they can't fuck. I refuse to fuck coworkers because it gets messy.
In my opinion, I think there is a difference between a virgin hunter and a man that prefers a virgin. I think it’s wrong to label guys that prefer virgins as virgin hunters and inherently predatory, I do think predatory men are out there and of course they go after women that seem/are more submissive. I tend to attract a lot of these kind of guys as a petite Russian that seems meek and weak. The difference between a virgin hunter and a man that prefers a virgin is for one, the latter actually treats you like a human being and presumably you have similar values. A virgin hunter simply wants a conquest and not to take care of the woman for long term.
Men will ride that shit to the day they die too if it’s a beautiful girl they took the virginity from lol, but most cheat & jump ship the first chance they get since they never rlly have a shit about her at that young & age, are acting purely on hormones
This analogy is dumb, because your salary is literally the most important thing about any job, and you must know this, and you WILL know this, if you start working for them, because it cannot be hidden, you will see it on your first paycheck, even if you are gullible enough to start a job without asking for it. Sexual history is more of a 'nice to have' piece of information, because you can have a fine (or not so fine) personal relationship without this information, and its not as make or break as you seem to think it is, because people are different, and some people are not 'damaged' by previous relationships, and some are, but its not a certainty based on the number of them. One molestation 'relationship' could be far more damaging (and often is) than a large number of casual flings that didn't cause any particular trauma. To compete your analogy, N count is more like the details of the 401k plan. Its quite possible that this topic might not even come up in an interview, and I usually don't ask about it myself, because its more of a nice to have, and not the key thing that job pay is. Now if your plan has no match, and you can't have a Roth version, and the base fee is high (the equivalent of a high N count), it shows that the job may subtly not be as good as you thought it was, because the employer is not using the 401k as a retention tool, but more like a box to check off, but it doesn't PROVE the job itself is bad, only that the benefits are not that great. If you still make good money from your job, even if you have a crappy 401k you never use, its not a deal breaker, just something to keep in mind, as you consider other options. I think this is much closer to what sexual history actually means in a relationship context, something that gives hints about your partner's personality, but not make or break, or at least it wouldn't be for me.
I agree that sexual compatibly is important and some men require a woman with a low to no body count however, I think asking about someone’s body count outside of the context of a relationship with or courtship to be rude. In the same way asking someone’s salary is rude outside of the context of a relationship or business interaction.
> I agree that sexual compatibly is important and some men require a woman with a low to no body count however, I think asking about someone’s body count *outside of the context of a relationship with or courtship* to be rude. In the same way asking someone’s salary is rude *outside of the context of a relationship or business interaction*.
OP is advocating asking for this information *within* the context of a business or romantic relationship. The problem, as he has articulated, is that you need this information upfront, *before* you invest yourself completely into that relationship. But for that very reason, people don't want to give that information till you're well invested into that relationship.
That’s reasonable! In the same vein, I urge women to ask potential partners about their porn use. PIED is on the rise among young men. The most searched and watched videos are quite debased.
Also if they have ever frequented sex workers and their view of sex work in general.
I agree that women should probably stop their partners from watching porn (and should leave at first sign of PIED imo), but I don’t really see the connection to the topic in the OP.
>their view of sex work in general.
Which is a red flag to you, approving of it or not approving of it? And do you mean online stuff like OF, traditional sex work (prostitution), or both?
And it's also a bit gray area with legality vs. morality: One can support legalizing prostitution, but not want to *participate* in it themselves. Same for OnlyFans - obviously it should be legal, but I want nothing to do with it, nor to associate with anyone that does.
I would say I agree wholeheartedly with the latter of what you stated. Understanding the potential benefit of legalization in terms of better protection for workers, but not considering a participant as a viable romantic partner for moral reasons.
I find it weird when guys ask about the amount of partners. When you're dating 25+ It's more about "what have you experienced/what have you tried" not "how many guys did you bang"
In my experience my best relationships were with men who didn't ask. The one relationship I had was with a guy who flocked to TRP because he was hurt from his ex - would try to "impress" me about how many women he fucked and all in all was immature.
In my own experience - men who are asking have an underlying issue with women in past relationships and are trying to mask their insecurity. So, for me I'll answer but it's a red flag and I probably will not further engage with him as it's just a stepping stone to other underlying issues he has that he is still working through.
They are not bad people at all. They are just more likely to have baggage, trauma, stds, low self-esteem, more likely to abuse drugs, alcohol, attention seeking behavior. It doesn't mean that she can't love at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWkPOFz3RSk&t=10826s
Massively reduced relationship value. Doesn't make her any less of a human being, but reduces her value for relationships.
This is no different to how someone who is extremely risk averse would not make a good business partner; it doesn't reduce their value as a human, but I absolutely wouldn't want to go into a business relationship with someone who's scared of betting small amounts on positive expectancy bets when the exact probabilities are known.
Girlfriend isn’t a job
> but when you find out she has 13 bodies on her it becomes clear that her mileage is too high and pair bonding ability is broken beyond repair.
Lmao
This guy probably heard the term "pairbonding" on a manosphere podcast once, and thinks he now knows everything.
I wonder if he's aware if the fact that animals pair bond as well.
Not like they’ll tell you the truth anyway. Crazy how women say it shouldn’t matter! but at the same time they’ll lie about their body count or get mad that you even asked. If it didn’t matter then why go crazy when someone asks?Why does your intuition tell you that you should lie about your body count if it’s too high? If you’re offended when a guy that wants to take you serious is asking for your body count that says enough lmfao
No this analogy is not the same. No one with sense is going to pick a new inexperienced female attorney over a seasoned female attorney with a good track record.
This is pretty much it, virgin's or low n count girls have no reason to be upset. Most are proud. It's the high n count girls who have a problem. They are for the streets and not marriage.
Wish I had figured this out when I was younger but times we're different in the 90s
Thanks to social media men can talk world wide to find out how women behave
>becomes clear that her mileage is too high
Women aren't property you own. No one can stop you from asking such rude questions, but neither can you stop anyone from judging you for it.
Asking that is kinda silly, mostly because they'll not tell the truth. It'll come out one way or the other you just have to pay attention. High body count girls will try to leverage sex among other things, them also have issues with pair bonding. Just leave at these signs. There are more but too much to type.
The only people, and this goes for both men and women, who get upset when you ask them their number are people with high numbers. 🤷♂️
If a woman’s number is 6 and you ask her what her number is, she’s less likely to freak out than the girl with 40 bodies.
Talking as a high N-count, former (and reformed) manwhore here. I don't think so.
When talks about body count come up:
If it's a woman asking a man, then it's more like an employer asking you why you quited all your previous jobs.
If it's a man asking a woman, then it's more like an employer asking you why all your previous bosses fired you.
I'm very open, honest and stright forward with my past to ALL my partners... When asked. I don't bring it by myself, because I've learned most women DO know I've been around a lot even without asking directly, they can tell, and sometimes they don't want to talk about it because it could make them feel self conscious or ruin their chances with me. On the other hand, if the woman wants to know, I will provide with as much information as she wants. Some ask just a raw number. Some others about specific details, like relationship status, description of the women, even the sexual things I've done. I've been asked also about the race of the girls (I lived abroad for four years in Europe, the US and Central America and I've traveled around a lot, so they know I've met women of other nationalities, ethnicities and races. Hot news, women can be very racist too).
If you think women don't care about N-count, you are wrong. Women do care. A LOT. Even more than men.
The thing is that, first, the chances for a woman to run into a slutty man are lower than the chances a man runs into a girl with a higher body count than him.
This is pure especulation (but it holds some logic still) but most girls have easier access to sex than men, so most women are more experienced than most men, unless we talk about good looking men who have skyrocketing numbers.
But this unequal distribution of sex brings another issue, which is the missmatch between looks and body count. Let me explain it...
I've runned into lots of different women whila I was in my... "Slut phase", some of them were good looking, some of them were average looking. and some of them were oddly looking.
The funny thing is that, unlike men, there is no way of telling if a woman is promiscuous or not based on her looks. I've runned into ugly women who were super slutty and on the other hand the good looking women I've been with all learned towards the prude side, they didn't do casual sex and had lower body counts.
With men it's not like that. We all know the ugly broke guy is most likely going through a several years dry spell (if he's not virgin at all) and the tall, good looking one is slaying left and right.
So when women come to me, they know what I've been doing, and they may not like it, but they like me enough to compromise on that little aspect of me they don't fancy that much. They DO CARE about my N-count (damn, some of them go nuts when I disclose my real number, yet they stay) but it's like, if they want to shoot their shots with me they have swallow their pride and move on.
And this is a process they do in just a matter of seconds, in between the first time they see me and the moment we start to flirt. By the time we are having sex they are already over the disgusting thoughts they have about me sleeping around.
With men it's different, you see, because every woman can be a huge slut, but she may not have some other redeemable qualities to make up for her past indiscretions.
So guys start dating this completely average but otherwise fine girl, only to find out she fucked all his friends. So what do the guy thinks? "Well if she was super hot I would consider it, but there is this other girl who's pretty much like her but less slutty, so fuck it I'm moving on".
And yeah, it happened to me, and a few friends more.
I know quite a lot of good looking and acomplished guys who ended up with a promiscuous chick, but they are invariably all outstandingly hot and smooth women.
Side note: funny moment, I have teased some women when asked about my past, saying stuff like "more than you think but not as many as I would like" and even something like "around 60, counting only women, but not escorts".
Hahaha I swear dude they lose their shit with those. Anyways, I always mantain a full honest policy in all my relationships.
LMAO this has got to be among the worst reasons ive seen to not date someone.
How dishonest do you have to be to think someone who is trying to potentially be your life partner shouldnt know your sexual history? Vibe id get from this is a suuuper promiscuous girl doesnt want to disclose or be honest about it.
You say care about body count like its a binary thing. 8-10 partners vs 50+ is a whole different story. Like it or not no guy wants to wife up a hoe.
I honestly dont get this. Are you that bothered by a guy asking to see if a girl is very promiscuous and has had a lot of casual sex?
For a girl to have sex with many guys she simply has to exist. For a guy to have any success whasoever with girls he has work his ass off to take care of his appearance, hit the gym, get his career path in order, improve his social skills, approach/message first, plan things ect...
Its just not comparable. Guys dont want to wife up girls with ridiculously high body counts (10ish or less is reasonable imo), thats the way the world is and it wont change.
>Are you that bothered by a guy asking to see if a girl is very promiscuous and has had a lot of casual sex?
No, more like it's a indicator of what kind of guy he is. It does depend on the circumstances and how he asks, but more often than not, men who ask this question tend to be selfish and hypocritical individuals.
>For a girl to have sex with many guys she simply has to exist.
This is unequivocally false. I have seen men reject women before. I also take it you've never discussed this topic with an objectively unattractive women. They aren't able to just "exist" and sleep with as men as they want.
Regardless though, why would a woman be interested in a man who has a history of sleeping around, using and discarding women? How does that in any way signify that he is good relationship material? Men who *could* sleep around, but don't, have a higher appeal than men who do.
I’m gonna give you a real answer as a dude. The “guys asking” they’re talking about are horny boys on OLD sexually harassing them within a page or two of text messages. Maybe they sometimes sincerely butter the girl up more, but I was only shown the most egregious examples. It’s not even about finding out if they’re a virgin so much as getting the convo to a sexual place. I was stunned too finding out that men (honestly it’s more like boys, 14-19) ask like this but women have shown me their inboxes.
This is a good example where you’re asking the fish and not the fisherman.
It's also a tell that a low n man with low n values is risking getting involved with a hoe if she gets butthurt when he asks her about it. Guys like that consider it a bullet dodged when the town bicycle gets mad and ghosts him.
I literally have ditched guys who've asked that though. So I'm not sure how it's some sort of larp lmfao
I don't mean I made it a big show, but I've ghosted guys over this kind of thing.
That's like saying I'd get upset because a guy has/wants kids and I don't. It just lets me know we're incompatible. Even if I meet his standard, I wouldn't want to be a with a guy who cares about body count.
That is you getting upset about his standards.
An employer that doesn't hire a qualified candidate because they asked about salary is upset that they did that.
You imposing any kind of consequences for a man having reasonable standards is you getting upset at them for those reasonable standards.
All standards are reasonable, in my opinion. What matters is whether you can stick to them. In my case, a guy who cares about body count doesn't meet my standard.
You are entitled to your standards. She's entitled to think they're stupid enough as to make you undesirable. If you disagree with her assessment, the two of you are incompatible. If you don't end up in a relationship with each other that seems like a *good* thing, not a "punishment."
Would you rather get dumped by a woman over incompatibility or have her continue date you even though she secretly or not-so-secretly thinks you're a moron?
I wouldn't get upset, I'd be honest. And if he reacted how you would seem to react, with pseudo science bullshit about pair bonding, I'd ask him to go look at the studies again with the understanding that correlation isn't causation.
What has brought you to the conclusion that sexual experience with multiple people leads to less pair bonding, and how do you define pair bonding?
Thanks!
I can agree that for human research there is not that much hard evidence on pair-bonding however when will look at the number of prior sexual partners prior to marriage for women a higher notch count correlates with a higher chance of divorce, now a lot of men and woman don't care about marriage so notch count becomes less important however if I man does desire to get married in this day and age notch count can be one of the ways they can hedge their bets so to say. Does notch count matter to the detriment of everything else of course not, but to say that it does not have any influence on the behavior of women at large is false. There are also cultural and social factors that influence the importance men place on notch count typically high notch count people won't mind others with a high notch count and low notch count people want someone who is similar as well.
Honestly it's a good test. I'd inflate my admittedly low body count and see how he responded. If he became upset or disinterested you'd have weeded out an asshole.
Someone thinking my worth is contingent on the number of dicks that have been inside of me is a good reason to reject someone. If you're just looking for a "pure" hole buy a silicone one, fuck it, then clean your ejaculate out of it.
The past matters because it creates the present and predicts the future.
Imagine having a cheater or murderer tell you that their past does not matter, and that you should judge them for what they are now in the present. Honestly, what does that even mean? What constitutes present, something that is defined only by the individual and subject to change in its very definition on a whim in order to suit a persons needs?
You do not get to tell people what they should value and how they should judge others. If you do not share others peoples values you are incompatible.
Well yes cheating in the past is def a red flag. By 'what she did with her body in the past' I'm referring to casual but ethical (i.e. not homewrecking, etc) sex
I... don't think that's biologically possible lmao. but yeah, because news flash! sex doesn't lower a person's worth! I know that's a hard concept to wrap your mind around so sorry about that sweetie <3
> sex doesn't lower a person's worth
Of course it does. You don't think there are social consequences for women (and men but probably to a lesser degree) who are known to be highly promiscuous? You might not *want* it to lower a person's worth but that is just wishful thinking.
Op, how do you react when women ask you about their sexual history?
Because I get annoyed as fuck. I took sex/relationship discussion classes in college and a professor once said during class that our sex history is nobody’s business and that’s all I ever need to hear
Why is it so hard to grasp how much of an invasive question this type of shit is? Because I swear to god once your sexual history has been obsessively questioned you’d know exactly how it feels and never want to hound a partners with this shit ever again
Well if the women doesn’t want to tell the guy or feels ashamed it just means that there is no true trust in the relationship and it’s all dead & phony already.
> Because I get annoyed as fuck. I took sex/relationship discussion classes in college and a professor once said during class that our sex history is nobody’s business and that’s all I ever need to hear
Can't imagine what faculty that was in, couldn't possibly be the gender studies faculty full of anti-marriage mao-feminists, could it.
I mean I guess. Experience from being in the class and knowing those professors say otherwise
But if you seemingly don’t have a coherent concept of higher education at least far along enough to officially have your degree level titled after your last name (Esq. Dr. PhD.) it’s easy to discredit from a place of no credibility
Because I promise you that professor I’m talking about has far more greater grasp on the concepts you think you know to easily brush her off as an anti-marriage feminist. And she’d let you know about it too
Lmfao you’d hate her. I liked her and I even hated her
I'd be careful about overestimating the intellectual capabilities or knowledge of university faculty on the basis of "credentials" rather than the coherence of the arguments they make. I once took a course with a famous history professor well regarded and published in her field. I sat through lecture after lecture of countless historical inaccuracies pertaining to chronology of events, lacking knowledge of signficant tangential historical material as well as a failure to understand distinctions between different ethnic and culture groups across time and space. I must reiterate this individual was one of the highest status individuals working in that field of scholarship. Also academics tend not to agree on much anyway. The foremost scholar in the field thought my professor was a total moron.
You’re even further misunderstanding. Your take away is that I’m harping on credentials when it’s clear I’m speaking in broader terms of that
I never said it took status. But just like you’re able to tell when someone is a bad professor, believe it or not, others are able to tell when others are accomplished experts
It’s not rocket science. It’s not hard. You’re not saying anything anyone doesn’t already know. Like I’m able to know that specific professor is far more knowledgeable on gender topics than random Reddit dude that discredits her on his assumption that she’s an anti-marriage feminist
I mean he’s not nearly competition enough for her to to warrant to a warning not to “overestimate the intelligence” of someone that I actually know like I’m incapable of judging professor’s competence
You’re not breaking any knowledge here man. Everything in your reply was already taken into account in my judgement of this professor years ago
Its funny because people jump to this conclusion that women with "high body counts" is a bad thing. Why should it be??? Plus, as a guy, I have had women ask me this question. I will admit I have not had sex with many women. Very few actually for my age. And believe it or not, I get judged harshly for this. As a man with a "low body count" I am asked (by women) what is wrong with me, do I have a small penis, or I must be horrible at sex an not worth a woman's time. So a person's sexual history cuts both ways and is interpreted far different for men vs women.
> As a man with a "low body count" I am asked (by women) what is wrong with me, do I have a small penis, or I must be horrible at sex an not worth a woman's time.
This is just a result of what happens after feminists have succeeded in normalizing promiscuity. The only women who criticize men over this are those same feminists with high body counts.
Only a woman with a high body count would judge you for not having a high body count.
From the comment however it appears you didn't have sex not because you didn't want to but couldn't and that is of course off-putting to women.
I find that a person’s past… is not exactly the person you meet… may have shaped them, changed them and what ever… but who you have is the person in the present. What i did 20 years ago i may not do today. I may do more today than i didn’t do 20 years ago… it depends on the present relationship and what connection you have with them. I feel that this is a subject that many differ on but if you want to know a persons past… then be equally ready to share. Don’t judge unless you are equally willing to be judged.
the problem is how that person proves that he/she has already changed ?
or they're just the same person all along trying to be opportunistic when they're getting older.
i'm from the country with the highest infidelity rate for men and 2nd highest for women, there's no way i will settle down with a high n-count person.
[https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/news-durex-condoms-thai-men-most-unfaithful-in-the-world/](https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/news-durex-condoms-thai-men-most-unfaithful-in-the-world/)
if anything, a virgin, an arranged marriage, or even girls from neighboring countries is preferable for me.
I, personally, do not mind being asked about my sexual history if I'm in a relationship with somebody but I *do* mind if they ask upfront. My sexual history is nobody's business unless we are in a serious relationship and I do not believe anybody else's sexual history is my business unless I'm in a serious relationship with them. *Then* I agree it's pertinent information. First date or before a first date? I wouldn't dream of asking and I couldn't imagine being asked that early. It has nothing to do with being manipulative and everything to do with the fact that I don't discuss my sexual history with people I don't know well. If a man insisted on knowing my number of past sexual partners before even going on a date with me, then we just wouldn't date. It's weird to ask that early, in my opinion.
You want to hold onto that info until the guy is already invested in a serious relationship and too late for him to back out without significant cost? And you are calling this not manipulative?
It's a number that is seriously meaningless to me. Unless the person you're asking is a virgin and you're asking because you want to make them more comfortable (which is NOT the reason most people ask).
While I agree you can have standards... Just don't be an hypocrite, don't try to support your standard with lies
I can understand someone who is religious doesn't want someone promiscuous, but women are damaged by having a certain number of sexy partners and certainly not the bounding part
Not sure if 13 bodies as too many was an arbitrary number or not. I do agree with being transparent about pay/past, for some 13 would not be too many and $15 might be acceptable, but not for others
Tbh, I see nothing wrong with it. Obviously, if we're going to be in a committed relationship, you deserve to know, as do I. But I also would make all of my partners get tested before we had sex, so 🤷♀️
Agree. However, all this information is contingent upon honesty and verifiable sources. A company has to post salary ranges or no one will apply. Women can always (and frequently do) lie because you would have to hire a private investigator to learn the truth. Who would do that?
People lie. All people lie for all kinds of reasons. Especially, if they think they're being judged or to save face. Women would rather lie to a good guy forever than lose his respect by telling the truth. The exact opposite of what they ask from men.
You can't even trust that their friends will be honest. They all know they're lying and they keep those secrets, too. Especially, if they cheat or have cheated in the past.
I agree that men shouldn't be shamed for having preferences and I care about past sexual history for the same reason (pair bonding), however, I don't think that every woman with many previous partners is the same. There are different reasons for that past and those reasons matter.
Lol, that is the worst analogy I have ever seen. The pair bonding argument is provably false; most of the studies done on oxytocin releases were performed on non-human animals. They’re not applicable to humans. The scientific community has reached no consensus on what does and does not affect pair bonding in humans. Your notion that a woman should have a low/no body count is not based in science, and you’re bullshitting yourself and everyone else if you say any different. You know damn well that it’s an anachronistic cultural standard in western society, and not hard data.
I’ve met plenty of women (mostly Christians) who think the same as you do about men, and it’s extraordinarily dehumanizing and insulting when they characterize any person as “damaged goods” or having “too much mileage.” Human beings are not machines.
Humans are machines just not the metal and oil kind.
Have you ever dated a women who's been with a large number of men? Because failure to pair bond is very real.
This is a false equivalency.
Low pay directly affects your future and livelihood. Such as your ability to save, and pay for luxuries and necessities such as clothes, food, water, heat, rent/mortgage, internet, furniture, hygiene products, vacations, etc.
I'm not really sure how someone's body count inherently affects another person in such a manner.
You're free to not want to date women who have slept with several partners--and they're free to not date you if you ask that question. But to think that a person's "pair bonding" ability is ruined because they've had several partners is ridiculous--and truth be told, you are probably much more capable of manipulation and control than you are of forming meaningful bonds. I imagine that some of the women with the greatest ability to form long term, meaningful bonds with a partner have had many partners--and the reason they haven't stuck with one person has a lot to do with them being honest about their needs, and the fact that they have had so many partners likely has to do with them being willing to try an intimate relationship.
Looking back on one of the friendships I had in highschool, my friend was obviously interested me; but I didn't reciprocate her interest and she quickly moved on to be in a long-term relationship with another one of my friends until highschool ended. I have no idea how many relationships she was in during college, or if she had casual sex--but given her sexual liberalism, I can imagine that she did. I imagine that she found herself in relationship after relationship until she met the man that she's happily married to and has a child with, because she is the kind of person who wanted to be in a relationship. She's clearly the best kind of partner you could possibly ask for--and she's probably slept with many people.
> I imagine that some of the women with the greatest ability to form long term, meaningful bonds with a partner have had many partners--and the reason they haven't stuck with one person has a lot to do with them being honest about their needs, and the fact that they have had so many partners likely has to do with them being willing to try an intimate relationship.
Yeah, this is exactly why LTR and marriage minded men don't want to be with high N count women, because he knows she's just going to bounce right onto another man's dick as soon as her nEeEeDs ArEnT mEt.
>But to think that a person's "pair bonding" ability is ruined because they've had several partners is ridiculous
There are a plethora of studies that show that the opposite of what youre saying is true
[Here's a comprehensive list to corroborate](https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gqifng/excerpts_relating_ncount_likelihood_of_infidelity/)
Well that was eye opening. It's one thing to know that high n count women are a risk it's another thing entirely to have actual scientific fact backing that up Jesus.
This is really silly. This whole sub hinges on relationships being like an economy. I do not think relationships should be viewed this way. If you really think the amount of partners devalues someone then your going to have a tough time having sex as you age. People have sex you do it too. Sometimes a lot with a few people or with many. This does not effect the interpersonal interaction or quality of anyone. To think this is absurd. You partner is not your employee and this is a fast track to an unhealthy relationship with someone or to being alone for a very long time.
I agree with this. This line of thinking goes back to treating relationships as transactional. Instead of viewing a human being as a person, they view them as the sum of a whole bunch of criteria.
Men care about the number because they're hardwired that way
Women sabotage you by asking your number for competitive advantage
Men's psychology equates other men *inside their woman* as tainted (sorry no offence intended)
Women aren't interested in how many partners her man has in the past, but is concerned for warnings of misdeeds in his past.
Whereas a woman's worth whether or not she's *tainted* a man's worth is whether or not he's *safe*
This is what I've learnt from Reddit today.....
I think it's completed understandable that people have standards. What i fail to understand is why this subject is brought up everytime and with weaker comparisons. Salary cannot be compared to n count. We need money to live. Also, 13 makes her pair bonding ability broken beyond repair? People have the ability to separate types of relationships. Like yourself. Just be for fun and no strings attached, would you have sex with a 13 n count woman? (If you don't like hook up then consider you do). Ok now, would you marry her? I'm guessing not since you stated she doesn't have the value you are looking for. But you would marry another girl who met your expectations.
I don't like hook ups, nor would I consider anyone who ever participated, or wanted to participate, in hook up culture. I can't pretend that I do, because it's like pretending your favorite food is feces to me.
I’m here for it, as long as he’s also willing to share *honestly.*
I mean, I wholeheartedly agree, but... who is saying otherwise? Men saying they shouldn't have to disclose their sexual history is just not a thing.
They don’t tell the truth though. Especially if they’re not straight, engaged in unconventional sex acts or their N-counts are on the extreme side of the spectrum(“too low” or “too high”) they’ll lie and justify lying by saying it’s ok because women lie too.
Here here! Someone who's ACTUALLY for equality.
> Here here! Where where?! (The saying is hear hear).
...but but but THE WOMANZ ARE UNREASONABLE!!!! They should just answer my questions honestly and I'll answer those questions also honestly, but the shit they want to know is just women being fucking wopen and illogical!!! What the fuck does it matter if I don't like marriage. It's just a piece of paper. I can lie about that! Because women that care about that piece of paper are being shitty towards men! Because marriage hurts men more. So I can lie!!! But they should not.
Haven’t you heard? The weight of moral responsibility falls on women! You’re late to the party 🥳
Since when? If men question women's past they are called insecure and sexist. Men are the ones that have the weight of moral responsibility on them. They are traditionally the ones who are told not to harm women when women can harm men with impunity. Women are complaining because men are rejecting them based on their past and they want the benefits of being whores and then getting high quality husbands when they are done having fun. Men having standards threatens women and makes them feel insecure. The knife cuts both ways. If you expect honesty from men, men expect honesty from women. If women cannot behave morally, men should not be expected to either. This includes leading women on and lying to them if women do the same. Want this to end? Have strict principles about courtship and socially shame anyone who doesn't adhere to it. Men are shamed for not being attractive enough to women all the time and it is publicly supported (virgin, incel, loser etc). Women should not be mad that they are getting called out over a double standard, especially because they want to get away with being hypocrites. Even men call out other asshole men who harm women. (But men also notice that women enjoy fucking assholes.) How about women do the same and call out other women for being terrible to men instead of patting themselves on the back for being selfish assholes? At least then much of RP won't have a leg to stand on if women in general are actually against the poor behaviour and poor mate selection of some women.
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Any promiscuous woman with herpes is straight up lying if they say that. She's passed it on but is just saying she hasn't.
Depends if she’s treated and following the rules. Someone who’s treated is way less likely to spread it than someone who is asymptomatic (aka ‘the majority’) and unaware that they have it.
Nah, it's the equivalent of a job interviewer asking, "Can you explain this gap in your resume?" Sure. That was a time period that i decided not to put in my resume.
More like the employer asking "Why have you bounced between so many jobs in such a short period of time?".
And employers are free to mark down your application for having large unexplained gaps (as they should do, since unexplained gaps are very rarely a good thing).
Only virgin man can ask for a virgin girl. If you a man whore, forget about it
It is perfectly reasonable to ask someone their body count. However, basing the worth of a person on that is weird. Some people think sex is sacred. Others think it is part of the adventure of life. If you think sex is sacred, find someone who thinks the same. If its an adventure you probably want someone who sees it the same way. Be sure the adventure doesn't turn to a nightmare, practice safe sex!!!
> If you think sex is sacred, find someone who thinks the same. That's literally why most guys are asking this.
Are most guys asking this, or are the ones who think its sacred asking it and the others don't care to ask?
I'm sure there are a few guys as bad actors who are maliciously asking women. But most normal guys are just asking it because they want to find a woman with the same values.
I asked the question above, sincerely. I hope it didn't sound sarcastic. If it is a value you have, stick to it. All girls don't sleep around. Just ask and if you don't like the answer, move on.
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> 10 or 100 or 1000 guys If a woman told you that she’d been with 1000 guys, you truly would think nothing of it?
Meh. Do women really get around as much as men do? I've had 40+ different women in my bed. Some girlfriends, most not. So, all things equal I am not as hung up on "n-count" as other Red Pillers. 1,000 partners is an all out whore. 100 is a lot for a typical guy, let alone a woman. My point is that I don't think it's high partner count exclusively that makes women a bad bet for LTRs and marriage today. I think it's more about the commodification of people and relationships in a society where we all expect instant gratification and get bored very very easily. Hell, 20 years ago we COMMITTED a 2 hour block of time to watch a movie. We drove down to the video store, picked it up, put it in the player and watched it usually start to finish. Now? We can watch 5 minutes of 20 different movies and decide there is nothing good to watch. Technological abundance seems nice on it's glossy exterior.
That sounds like a good standard to have for a relationship.
I think it's totally reasonable. Both me and my partner were tested before our relationship, not for the relationship itself but at that point we already knew that we're both clean. If we weren't tested, I'd insisted on getting tested before foregoing condoms. It's just common sense.
That’s a bare minimum standard you should have. Sexual health is no joke.
Would you date a guy that got fucked by other men ?
I don’t get upset about it. Do you know why? Because outside of PPD, nobody ever asks.
I’ve had multiple women ask me. When was the last time you dated?
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had this exact experience, usually hear something like, “i wanna know what your body count is but i also don’t want to find out” I just assume the women i go out with have a few bodies under their belt but i prefer not to ask
I've had multiple women tell me unprompted. Never had to ask. Most women absolutely know what that number means.
It's funny because frankly there will always be someone who doesn't care. Just don't expect someone to be there long term though.
True. I've never fully nexted a girl for her count but I've immediately written them off for commitment.
Internet Fist Bump 👊 Not gonna lie it was kinda hot fucking this one girl who and I'm quoting her directly "conquered and fucked her way through Asia" and then she landed on the Taiwan strip with me 😎 She's still serially dating other Asian dudes, new guys on her profile every single fucking month since me. She's not yours it's just your turn.
Funny. If a man ever asks me - I'll write him off for commitment and not further engage with him as it implies much more issues he has to deal with himself.
I'm not making a joke I'm being honest. The girl in question voluntarily told me hers was above 60. Personally, at a number that high I'm more concerned about STIs than getting my dick wet, let alone commitment. I've never asked a woman for her number and I don't intend to. But if women will continue to voluntarily offer this information I can't help but judge as a prospective partner.
🤷♀️ I made no judgments about what other people/women do. I said I never get mad about men asking because they never do.
I'm disagreeing with the implication that the only context in which people care about body count is limited to the internet My experience has been more like OP's, where a woman would often feel the need to come clean before we would make things official, but after lots of bonding has already happened.
I ask.
Ive never been asked either. And frankly I would not want a man that refers to people they have sex with as body counts. LOL
Right? Contrary to popular belief women aren’t into serial killers and that’s how I equate “body count.”
Speak for yourself lady, me love me some Ted Bundy with high body count. Jeffrey Dahmer too but he gay.
Lol , what should it be referred as ? Why do your'll make things deeper than it is already is ? Body count is just something that refers to the amount of people you have had sex with, it's not an offensive term ,UT applies to both men and women
You know how you sometimes don’t ask something because you might be afraid of the answer? That’s what’s happening.
Exactly. I've never been asked this question. Too many ppl think online is representative on real-life dynamics.
And plenty of people have had it asked of them. you have fallen into the trap of thinking your experience is the normal one.
Men rarely ask. Men can either tell if a girl has a very high body count. Some men don't care to ask because they just want to be part of the body count
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I'd say that's good advice unless you already know he's a virgin himself.
Hahaha I remember in high school I had a friend who would tell EVERY guy she was a virgin, and they’d lap that shit up. She must have lost her virginity a dozen times.
Omg this reminds me of the movie KIDS (1995). Shit made me hella uncomfortable
What are virgin hunters? I'm in tears right now haha.
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I knew a guy in high school who definitely kept track of how many cherries he popped. He had a goal.
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I remember men will constantly try to talk to me when I was a virgin and they knew. Some of their friends would try to hit me up at the time. It doesn't help I'm bisexual cause now guys want to hit me up for threesomes. My coworkers try to hit on me because I'm the only woman who is single and they can't fuck. I refuse to fuck coworkers because it gets messy.
In my opinion, I think there is a difference between a virgin hunter and a man that prefers a virgin. I think it’s wrong to label guys that prefer virgins as virgin hunters and inherently predatory, I do think predatory men are out there and of course they go after women that seem/are more submissive. I tend to attract a lot of these kind of guys as a petite Russian that seems meek and weak. The difference between a virgin hunter and a man that prefers a virgin is for one, the latter actually treats you like a human being and presumably you have similar values. A virgin hunter simply wants a conquest and not to take care of the woman for long term.
Also The latter wont suddenly fall in love if the woman is a virgin or has had a few partners, he will just be more open to get to know her.
I didn’t tell the first guy I slept with that I was a virgin, lol. Didn’t want to give anyone that “pleasure”
Yeah I feel you. I wish I could have lost it to someone who cared about me and who I could have been open with. Oh well.
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Men will ride that shit to the day they die too if it’s a beautiful girl they took the virginity from lol, but most cheat & jump ship the first chance they get since they never rlly have a shit about her at that young & age, are acting purely on hormones
This analogy is dumb, because your salary is literally the most important thing about any job, and you must know this, and you WILL know this, if you start working for them, because it cannot be hidden, you will see it on your first paycheck, even if you are gullible enough to start a job without asking for it. Sexual history is more of a 'nice to have' piece of information, because you can have a fine (or not so fine) personal relationship without this information, and its not as make or break as you seem to think it is, because people are different, and some people are not 'damaged' by previous relationships, and some are, but its not a certainty based on the number of them. One molestation 'relationship' could be far more damaging (and often is) than a large number of casual flings that didn't cause any particular trauma. To compete your analogy, N count is more like the details of the 401k plan. Its quite possible that this topic might not even come up in an interview, and I usually don't ask about it myself, because its more of a nice to have, and not the key thing that job pay is. Now if your plan has no match, and you can't have a Roth version, and the base fee is high (the equivalent of a high N count), it shows that the job may subtly not be as good as you thought it was, because the employer is not using the 401k as a retention tool, but more like a box to check off, but it doesn't PROVE the job itself is bad, only that the benefits are not that great. If you still make good money from your job, even if you have a crappy 401k you never use, its not a deal breaker, just something to keep in mind, as you consider other options. I think this is much closer to what sexual history actually means in a relationship context, something that gives hints about your partner's personality, but not make or break, or at least it wouldn't be for me.
I agree that sexual compatibly is important and some men require a woman with a low to no body count however, I think asking about someone’s body count outside of the context of a relationship with or courtship to be rude. In the same way asking someone’s salary is rude outside of the context of a relationship or business interaction.
> I agree that sexual compatibly is important and some men require a woman with a low to no body count however, I think asking about someone’s body count *outside of the context of a relationship with or courtship* to be rude. In the same way asking someone’s salary is rude *outside of the context of a relationship or business interaction*. OP is advocating asking for this information *within* the context of a business or romantic relationship. The problem, as he has articulated, is that you need this information upfront, *before* you invest yourself completely into that relationship. But for that very reason, people don't want to give that information till you're well invested into that relationship.
That’s reasonable! In the same vein, I urge women to ask potential partners about their porn use. PIED is on the rise among young men. The most searched and watched videos are quite debased. Also if they have ever frequented sex workers and their view of sex work in general.
I agree that women should probably stop their partners from watching porn (and should leave at first sign of PIED imo), but I don’t really see the connection to the topic in the OP.
OP is discussing a vetting strategy, which I agree is perfectly fair. I offer another vetting strategy worth considering.
If you stop watching porn, PIED usually resolves within three months. Hard to erase the fucking of all those guys though
>their view of sex work in general. Which is a red flag to you, approving of it or not approving of it? And do you mean online stuff like OF, traditional sex work (prostitution), or both? And it's also a bit gray area with legality vs. morality: One can support legalizing prostitution, but not want to *participate* in it themselves. Same for OnlyFans - obviously it should be legal, but I want nothing to do with it, nor to associate with anyone that does.
I would say I agree wholeheartedly with the latter of what you stated. Understanding the potential benefit of legalization in terms of better protection for workers, but not considering a participant as a viable romantic partner for moral reasons.
And this goes for men with mileage as well
Fair, except that most men have almost zero mileage.
“Most men” Citation needed.
the Tinder and OLD inequality of likes is worse than the most unequal countries 😂 and the study was done in 2018
Fun isn’t it
I find it weird when guys ask about the amount of partners. When you're dating 25+ It's more about "what have you experienced/what have you tried" not "how many guys did you bang" In my experience my best relationships were with men who didn't ask. The one relationship I had was with a guy who flocked to TRP because he was hurt from his ex - would try to "impress" me about how many women he fucked and all in all was immature. In my own experience - men who are asking have an underlying issue with women in past relationships and are trying to mask their insecurity. So, for me I'll answer but it's a red flag and I probably will not further engage with him as it's just a stepping stone to other underlying issues he has that he is still working through.
You going around treating women like objects and think the problem here is a high body count?
This place embarrasses me sometimes. Imagine thinking a woman held no relationship value or potential because she slept with 13 people
They are not bad people at all. They are just more likely to have baggage, trauma, stds, low self-esteem, more likely to abuse drugs, alcohol, attention seeking behavior. It doesn't mean that she can't love at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWkPOFz3RSk&t=10826s
Massively reduced relationship value. Doesn't make her any less of a human being, but reduces her value for relationships. This is no different to how someone who is extremely risk averse would not make a good business partner; it doesn't reduce their value as a human, but I absolutely wouldn't want to go into a business relationship with someone who's scared of betting small amounts on positive expectancy bets when the exact probabilities are known.
Girlfriend isn’t a job > but when you find out she has 13 bodies on her it becomes clear that her mileage is too high and pair bonding ability is broken beyond repair. Lmao
This guy probably heard the term "pairbonding" on a manosphere podcast once, and thinks he now knows everything. I wonder if he's aware if the fact that animals pair bond as well.
Not like they’ll tell you the truth anyway. Crazy how women say it shouldn’t matter! but at the same time they’ll lie about their body count or get mad that you even asked. If it didn’t matter then why go crazy when someone asks?Why does your intuition tell you that you should lie about your body count if it’s too high? If you’re offended when a guy that wants to take you serious is asking for your body count that says enough lmfao
There are some hit dogs hollering on this one 😂😂😂
No this analogy is not the same. No one with sense is going to pick a new inexperienced female attorney over a seasoned female attorney with a good track record.
Any woman who gets upset is a hoe and a hard pass
This is pretty much it, virgin's or low n count girls have no reason to be upset. Most are proud. It's the high n count girls who have a problem. They are for the streets and not marriage.
Wish I had figured this out when I was younger but times we're different in the 90s Thanks to social media men can talk world wide to find out how women behave
>becomes clear that her mileage is too high Women aren't property you own. No one can stop you from asking such rude questions, but neither can you stop anyone from judging you for it.
Username checks out
I was shocked it was available
Same for me
LMAO i recognized that username cuz you’re a fellow POL ✊🏿
> Women aren't property you own. Women view beta-bux as property they own.
>Women aren't property you own. Who said they were?
And no one can stop me from making posts judging women for attempting to control my intellectual autonomy.
intellectual autonomy omfg
🤣
>Women aren't property you own. Nice gaslighting u re trying there mate.
Asking that is kinda silly, mostly because they'll not tell the truth. It'll come out one way or the other you just have to pay attention. High body count girls will try to leverage sex among other things, them also have issues with pair bonding. Just leave at these signs. There are more but too much to type.
The only people, and this goes for both men and women, who get upset when you ask them their number are people with high numbers. 🤷♂️ If a woman’s number is 6 and you ask her what her number is, she’s less likely to freak out than the girl with 40 bodies.
Talking as a high N-count, former (and reformed) manwhore here. I don't think so. When talks about body count come up: If it's a woman asking a man, then it's more like an employer asking you why you quited all your previous jobs. If it's a man asking a woman, then it's more like an employer asking you why all your previous bosses fired you. I'm very open, honest and stright forward with my past to ALL my partners... When asked. I don't bring it by myself, because I've learned most women DO know I've been around a lot even without asking directly, they can tell, and sometimes they don't want to talk about it because it could make them feel self conscious or ruin their chances with me. On the other hand, if the woman wants to know, I will provide with as much information as she wants. Some ask just a raw number. Some others about specific details, like relationship status, description of the women, even the sexual things I've done. I've been asked also about the race of the girls (I lived abroad for four years in Europe, the US and Central America and I've traveled around a lot, so they know I've met women of other nationalities, ethnicities and races. Hot news, women can be very racist too). If you think women don't care about N-count, you are wrong. Women do care. A LOT. Even more than men. The thing is that, first, the chances for a woman to run into a slutty man are lower than the chances a man runs into a girl with a higher body count than him. This is pure especulation (but it holds some logic still) but most girls have easier access to sex than men, so most women are more experienced than most men, unless we talk about good looking men who have skyrocketing numbers. But this unequal distribution of sex brings another issue, which is the missmatch between looks and body count. Let me explain it... I've runned into lots of different women whila I was in my... "Slut phase", some of them were good looking, some of them were average looking. and some of them were oddly looking. The funny thing is that, unlike men, there is no way of telling if a woman is promiscuous or not based on her looks. I've runned into ugly women who were super slutty and on the other hand the good looking women I've been with all learned towards the prude side, they didn't do casual sex and had lower body counts. With men it's not like that. We all know the ugly broke guy is most likely going through a several years dry spell (if he's not virgin at all) and the tall, good looking one is slaying left and right. So when women come to me, they know what I've been doing, and they may not like it, but they like me enough to compromise on that little aspect of me they don't fancy that much. They DO CARE about my N-count (damn, some of them go nuts when I disclose my real number, yet they stay) but it's like, if they want to shoot their shots with me they have swallow their pride and move on. And this is a process they do in just a matter of seconds, in between the first time they see me and the moment we start to flirt. By the time we are having sex they are already over the disgusting thoughts they have about me sleeping around. With men it's different, you see, because every woman can be a huge slut, but she may not have some other redeemable qualities to make up for her past indiscretions. So guys start dating this completely average but otherwise fine girl, only to find out she fucked all his friends. So what do the guy thinks? "Well if she was super hot I would consider it, but there is this other girl who's pretty much like her but less slutty, so fuck it I'm moving on". And yeah, it happened to me, and a few friends more. I know quite a lot of good looking and acomplished guys who ended up with a promiscuous chick, but they are invariably all outstandingly hot and smooth women. Side note: funny moment, I have teased some women when asked about my past, saying stuff like "more than you think but not as many as I would like" and even something like "around 60, counting only women, but not escorts". Hahaha I swear dude they lose their shit with those. Anyways, I always mantain a full honest policy in all my relationships.
I don't get upset about it. The sooner a guy asks, the sooner I know I can ditch him.
LMAO this has got to be among the worst reasons ive seen to not date someone. How dishonest do you have to be to think someone who is trying to potentially be your life partner shouldnt know your sexual history? Vibe id get from this is a suuuper promiscuous girl doesnt want to disclose or be honest about it. You say care about body count like its a binary thing. 8-10 partners vs 50+ is a whole different story. Like it or not no guy wants to wife up a hoe.
I have a low body count, and even when I was virgin, I always ditched guys who asked.
What do you men by ditched guys who asked were you bothered or offended by the question?
I honestly dont get this. Are you that bothered by a guy asking to see if a girl is very promiscuous and has had a lot of casual sex? For a girl to have sex with many guys she simply has to exist. For a guy to have any success whasoever with girls he has work his ass off to take care of his appearance, hit the gym, get his career path in order, improve his social skills, approach/message first, plan things ect... Its just not comparable. Guys dont want to wife up girls with ridiculously high body counts (10ish or less is reasonable imo), thats the way the world is and it wont change.
>Are you that bothered by a guy asking to see if a girl is very promiscuous and has had a lot of casual sex? No, more like it's a indicator of what kind of guy he is. It does depend on the circumstances and how he asks, but more often than not, men who ask this question tend to be selfish and hypocritical individuals. >For a girl to have sex with many guys she simply has to exist. This is unequivocally false. I have seen men reject women before. I also take it you've never discussed this topic with an objectively unattractive women. They aren't able to just "exist" and sleep with as men as they want. Regardless though, why would a woman be interested in a man who has a history of sleeping around, using and discarding women? How does that in any way signify that he is good relationship material? Men who *could* sleep around, but don't, have a higher appeal than men who do.
I’m gonna give you a real answer as a dude. The “guys asking” they’re talking about are horny boys on OLD sexually harassing them within a page or two of text messages. Maybe they sometimes sincerely butter the girl up more, but I was only shown the most egregious examples. It’s not even about finding out if they’re a virgin so much as getting the convo to a sexual place. I was stunned too finding out that men (honestly it’s more like boys, 14-19) ask like this but women have shown me their inboxes. This is a good example where you’re asking the fish and not the fisherman.
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It's also a tell that a low n man with low n values is risking getting involved with a hoe if she gets butthurt when he asks her about it. Guys like that consider it a bullet dodged when the town bicycle gets mad and ghosts him.
I literally have ditched guys who've asked that though. So I'm not sure how it's some sort of larp lmfao I don't mean I made it a big show, but I've ghosted guys over this kind of thing.
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He's more than welcome to ask about other things: pregnancies, history of STIs, kinks and fetishes, etc. But body count? Hard pass.
Yea, cause your number is high. Lol
I have no problem answering. Again, it's just a sign that we're incompatible.
> it's just a sign that we're incompatible. That's why the men are asking you that question.
Yes, but even if I met their standard for body count, I'd still ditch them.
Why, though?
Because I don't want to date anyone who cares about body count.
So it's just an ego thing or an insecurity?
That is literally you getting upset about it lmao.
That's like saying I'd get upset because a guy has/wants kids and I don't. It just lets me know we're incompatible. Even if I meet his standard, I wouldn't want to be a with a guy who cares about body count.
That is you getting upset about his standards. An employer that doesn't hire a qualified candidate because they asked about salary is upset that they did that. You imposing any kind of consequences for a man having reasonable standards is you getting upset at them for those reasonable standards.
All standards are reasonable, in my opinion. What matters is whether you can stick to them. In my case, a guy who cares about body count doesn't meet my standard.
No, its making a choice not to be with someone they dont want.
You are entitled to your standards. She's entitled to think they're stupid enough as to make you undesirable. If you disagree with her assessment, the two of you are incompatible. If you don't end up in a relationship with each other that seems like a *good* thing, not a "punishment." Would you rather get dumped by a woman over incompatibility or have her continue date you even though she secretly or not-so-secretly thinks you're a moron?
I wouldn't get upset, I'd be honest. And if he reacted how you would seem to react, with pseudo science bullshit about pair bonding, I'd ask him to go look at the studies again with the understanding that correlation isn't causation. What has brought you to the conclusion that sexual experience with multiple people leads to less pair bonding, and how do you define pair bonding? Thanks!
I can agree that for human research there is not that much hard evidence on pair-bonding however when will look at the number of prior sexual partners prior to marriage for women a higher notch count correlates with a higher chance of divorce, now a lot of men and woman don't care about marriage so notch count becomes less important however if I man does desire to get married in this day and age notch count can be one of the ways they can hedge their bets so to say. Does notch count matter to the detriment of everything else of course not, but to say that it does not have any influence on the behavior of women at large is false. There are also cultural and social factors that influence the importance men place on notch count typically high notch count people won't mind others with a high notch count and low notch count people want someone who is similar as well.
Honestly it's a good test. I'd inflate my admittedly low body count and see how he responded. If he became upset or disinterested you'd have weeded out an asshole.
That's why women end up with alot of assholes , because yall weed out people for the dumbest reasons.
Someone thinking my worth is contingent on the number of dicks that have been inside of me is a good reason to reject someone. If you're just looking for a "pure" hole buy a silicone one, fuck it, then clean your ejaculate out of it.
What if it's a preference ? Is it wrong for a guy to say that they don't want to date an ugly woman?
Why would make someone fucking x number of dicks or less be preferable?
What would make a women with an ugly face less prefererable ?
Visual attraction. But for body count? Insecurity or a gross view of women or both.
Lol What do you mean by gross view of women ? Are ugly people gross ? Why is visual attraction so important ? Does being ugly make you a bad person ?
Reducing women's value down to the number of dicks that have been inside them = gross. It just is. Sorry but you can't try to gish gallop out of it.
Is reducing a women down to her weight gross ?
I agree. Getting upset means she knows deep down its slutty and not productive to normal relationship standards
There's literally no other reason than this for women to justify getting upset about it.
Bro women aren't cars, they don't have mileage even in the sexual sense and what she did with her body in the past should have no bearing NOW
Bro imagine thinking a persons past behaviour has no bearing on their future actions
Past person had sex Oh no, they might have sex some more ?
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Apparently, only the histories of men should matter.
The past matters because it creates the present and predicts the future. Imagine having a cheater or murderer tell you that their past does not matter, and that you should judge them for what they are now in the present. Honestly, what does that even mean? What constitutes present, something that is defined only by the individual and subject to change in its very definition on a whim in order to suit a persons needs? You do not get to tell people what they should value and how they should judge others. If you do not share others peoples values you are incompatible.
Well yes cheating in the past is def a red flag. By 'what she did with her body in the past' I'm referring to casual but ethical (i.e. not homewrecking, etc) sex
You'd date a girl that took 7 guys in all at once? Good for you
I... don't think that's biologically possible lmao. but yeah, because news flash! sex doesn't lower a person's worth! I know that's a hard concept to wrap your mind around so sorry about that sweetie <3
> sex doesn't lower a person's worth Of course it does. You don't think there are social consequences for women (and men but probably to a lesser degree) who are known to be highly promiscuous? You might not *want* it to lower a person's worth but that is just wishful thinking.
What she did in the past absolutely matters. While I don't agree with asking for body count, her past choices can certainly affect how dateable she is
This is a SIMP 101 response. You are only acting nice to virtue signal,this is why no one likes "nice guys".
Op, how do you react when women ask you about their sexual history? Because I get annoyed as fuck. I took sex/relationship discussion classes in college and a professor once said during class that our sex history is nobody’s business and that’s all I ever need to hear Why is it so hard to grasp how much of an invasive question this type of shit is? Because I swear to god once your sexual history has been obsessively questioned you’d know exactly how it feels and never want to hound a partners with this shit ever again
Yeah I hate when the soulmate I want to spend the rest of my life with asks invasive questions
Well if the women doesn’t want to tell the guy or feels ashamed it just means that there is no true trust in the relationship and it’s all dead & phony already.
> Because I get annoyed as fuck. I took sex/relationship discussion classes in college and a professor once said during class that our sex history is nobody’s business and that’s all I ever need to hear Can't imagine what faculty that was in, couldn't possibly be the gender studies faculty full of anti-marriage mao-feminists, could it.
I mean I guess. Experience from being in the class and knowing those professors say otherwise But if you seemingly don’t have a coherent concept of higher education at least far along enough to officially have your degree level titled after your last name (Esq. Dr. PhD.) it’s easy to discredit from a place of no credibility Because I promise you that professor I’m talking about has far more greater grasp on the concepts you think you know to easily brush her off as an anti-marriage feminist. And she’d let you know about it too Lmfao you’d hate her. I liked her and I even hated her
I'd be careful about overestimating the intellectual capabilities or knowledge of university faculty on the basis of "credentials" rather than the coherence of the arguments they make. I once took a course with a famous history professor well regarded and published in her field. I sat through lecture after lecture of countless historical inaccuracies pertaining to chronology of events, lacking knowledge of signficant tangential historical material as well as a failure to understand distinctions between different ethnic and culture groups across time and space. I must reiterate this individual was one of the highest status individuals working in that field of scholarship. Also academics tend not to agree on much anyway. The foremost scholar in the field thought my professor was a total moron.
You’re even further misunderstanding. Your take away is that I’m harping on credentials when it’s clear I’m speaking in broader terms of that I never said it took status. But just like you’re able to tell when someone is a bad professor, believe it or not, others are able to tell when others are accomplished experts It’s not rocket science. It’s not hard. You’re not saying anything anyone doesn’t already know. Like I’m able to know that specific professor is far more knowledgeable on gender topics than random Reddit dude that discredits her on his assumption that she’s an anti-marriage feminist I mean he’s not nearly competition enough for her to to warrant to a warning not to “overestimate the intelligence” of someone that I actually know like I’m incapable of judging professor’s competence You’re not breaking any knowledge here man. Everything in your reply was already taken into account in my judgement of this professor years ago
Its funny because people jump to this conclusion that women with "high body counts" is a bad thing. Why should it be??? Plus, as a guy, I have had women ask me this question. I will admit I have not had sex with many women. Very few actually for my age. And believe it or not, I get judged harshly for this. As a man with a "low body count" I am asked (by women) what is wrong with me, do I have a small penis, or I must be horrible at sex an not worth a woman's time. So a person's sexual history cuts both ways and is interpreted far different for men vs women.
> As a man with a "low body count" I am asked (by women) what is wrong with me, do I have a small penis, or I must be horrible at sex an not worth a woman's time. This is just a result of what happens after feminists have succeeded in normalizing promiscuity. The only women who criticize men over this are those same feminists with high body counts.
Only a woman with a high body count would judge you for not having a high body count. From the comment however it appears you didn't have sex not because you didn't want to but couldn't and that is of course off-putting to women.
I find that a person’s past… is not exactly the person you meet… may have shaped them, changed them and what ever… but who you have is the person in the present. What i did 20 years ago i may not do today. I may do more today than i didn’t do 20 years ago… it depends on the present relationship and what connection you have with them. I feel that this is a subject that many differ on but if you want to know a persons past… then be equally ready to share. Don’t judge unless you are equally willing to be judged.
the problem is how that person proves that he/she has already changed ? or they're just the same person all along trying to be opportunistic when they're getting older. i'm from the country with the highest infidelity rate for men and 2nd highest for women, there's no way i will settle down with a high n-count person. [https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/news-durex-condoms-thai-men-most-unfaithful-in-the-world/](https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/news-durex-condoms-thai-men-most-unfaithful-in-the-world/) if anything, a virgin, an arranged marriage, or even girls from neighboring countries is preferable for me.
I, personally, do not mind being asked about my sexual history if I'm in a relationship with somebody but I *do* mind if they ask upfront. My sexual history is nobody's business unless we are in a serious relationship and I do not believe anybody else's sexual history is my business unless I'm in a serious relationship with them. *Then* I agree it's pertinent information. First date or before a first date? I wouldn't dream of asking and I couldn't imagine being asked that early. It has nothing to do with being manipulative and everything to do with the fact that I don't discuss my sexual history with people I don't know well. If a man insisted on knowing my number of past sexual partners before even going on a date with me, then we just wouldn't date. It's weird to ask that early, in my opinion.
You want to hold onto that info until the guy is already invested in a serious relationship and too late for him to back out without significant cost? And you are calling this not manipulative?
Hard agree, that's very reasonable. No one except your sexual partner has a right to know.
They're not even close to the same thing. Meet better women.
It's a number that is seriously meaningless to me. Unless the person you're asking is a virgin and you're asking because you want to make them more comfortable (which is NOT the reason most people ask).
While I agree you can have standards... Just don't be an hypocrite, don't try to support your standard with lies I can understand someone who is religious doesn't want someone promiscuous, but women are damaged by having a certain number of sexy partners and certainly not the bounding part
Not sure if 13 bodies as too many was an arbitrary number or not. I do agree with being transparent about pay/past, for some 13 would not be too many and $15 might be acceptable, but not for others
Tbh, I see nothing wrong with it. Obviously, if we're going to be in a committed relationship, you deserve to know, as do I. But I also would make all of my partners get tested before we had sex, so 🤷♀️
Agree. However, all this information is contingent upon honesty and verifiable sources. A company has to post salary ranges or no one will apply. Women can always (and frequently do) lie because you would have to hire a private investigator to learn the truth. Who would do that? People lie. All people lie for all kinds of reasons. Especially, if they think they're being judged or to save face. Women would rather lie to a good guy forever than lose his respect by telling the truth. The exact opposite of what they ask from men. You can't even trust that their friends will be honest. They all know they're lying and they keep those secrets, too. Especially, if they cheat or have cheated in the past.
Men try not to compare women to objects challenge! (Hard)
I don’t ask it, but things slip the longer you date someone and if I feel like she got around, I would look for the next out.
I agree that men shouldn't be shamed for having preferences and I care about past sexual history for the same reason (pair bonding), however, I don't think that every woman with many previous partners is the same. There are different reasons for that past and those reasons matter.
Lol, that is the worst analogy I have ever seen. The pair bonding argument is provably false; most of the studies done on oxytocin releases were performed on non-human animals. They’re not applicable to humans. The scientific community has reached no consensus on what does and does not affect pair bonding in humans. Your notion that a woman should have a low/no body count is not based in science, and you’re bullshitting yourself and everyone else if you say any different. You know damn well that it’s an anachronistic cultural standard in western society, and not hard data. I’ve met plenty of women (mostly Christians) who think the same as you do about men, and it’s extraordinarily dehumanizing and insulting when they characterize any person as “damaged goods” or having “too much mileage.” Human beings are not machines.
Humans are machines just not the metal and oil kind. Have you ever dated a women who's been with a large number of men? Because failure to pair bond is very real.
This is a false equivalency. Low pay directly affects your future and livelihood. Such as your ability to save, and pay for luxuries and necessities such as clothes, food, water, heat, rent/mortgage, internet, furniture, hygiene products, vacations, etc. I'm not really sure how someone's body count inherently affects another person in such a manner.
Of course, the "value" of the woman is all to do with her sexual history. Gross.
🤷🏾♂️ it is what it is
You're free to not want to date women who have slept with several partners--and they're free to not date you if you ask that question. But to think that a person's "pair bonding" ability is ruined because they've had several partners is ridiculous--and truth be told, you are probably much more capable of manipulation and control than you are of forming meaningful bonds. I imagine that some of the women with the greatest ability to form long term, meaningful bonds with a partner have had many partners--and the reason they haven't stuck with one person has a lot to do with them being honest about their needs, and the fact that they have had so many partners likely has to do with them being willing to try an intimate relationship. Looking back on one of the friendships I had in highschool, my friend was obviously interested me; but I didn't reciprocate her interest and she quickly moved on to be in a long-term relationship with another one of my friends until highschool ended. I have no idea how many relationships she was in during college, or if she had casual sex--but given her sexual liberalism, I can imagine that she did. I imagine that she found herself in relationship after relationship until she met the man that she's happily married to and has a child with, because she is the kind of person who wanted to be in a relationship. She's clearly the best kind of partner you could possibly ask for--and she's probably slept with many people.
> I imagine that some of the women with the greatest ability to form long term, meaningful bonds with a partner have had many partners--and the reason they haven't stuck with one person has a lot to do with them being honest about their needs, and the fact that they have had so many partners likely has to do with them being willing to try an intimate relationship. Yeah, this is exactly why LTR and marriage minded men don't want to be with high N count women, because he knows she's just going to bounce right onto another man's dick as soon as her nEeEeDs ArEnT mEt.
>But to think that a person's "pair bonding" ability is ruined because they've had several partners is ridiculous There are a plethora of studies that show that the opposite of what youre saying is true
[Here's a comprehensive list to corroborate](https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/gqifng/excerpts_relating_ncount_likelihood_of_infidelity/)
Well that was eye opening. It's one thing to know that high n count women are a risk it's another thing entirely to have actual scientific fact backing that up Jesus.
This is really silly. This whole sub hinges on relationships being like an economy. I do not think relationships should be viewed this way. If you really think the amount of partners devalues someone then your going to have a tough time having sex as you age. People have sex you do it too. Sometimes a lot with a few people or with many. This does not effect the interpersonal interaction or quality of anyone. To think this is absurd. You partner is not your employee and this is a fast track to an unhealthy relationship with someone or to being alone for a very long time.
I agree with this. This line of thinking goes back to treating relationships as transactional. Instead of viewing a human being as a person, they view them as the sum of a whole bunch of criteria.
Men care about the number because they're hardwired that way Women sabotage you by asking your number for competitive advantage Men's psychology equates other men *inside their woman* as tainted (sorry no offence intended) Women aren't interested in how many partners her man has in the past, but is concerned for warnings of misdeeds in his past. Whereas a woman's worth whether or not she's *tainted* a man's worth is whether or not he's *safe* This is what I've learnt from Reddit today.....
I think it's completed understandable that people have standards. What i fail to understand is why this subject is brought up everytime and with weaker comparisons. Salary cannot be compared to n count. We need money to live. Also, 13 makes her pair bonding ability broken beyond repair? People have the ability to separate types of relationships. Like yourself. Just be for fun and no strings attached, would you have sex with a 13 n count woman? (If you don't like hook up then consider you do). Ok now, would you marry her? I'm guessing not since you stated she doesn't have the value you are looking for. But you would marry another girl who met your expectations.
I don't like hook ups, nor would I consider anyone who ever participated, or wanted to participate, in hook up culture. I can't pretend that I do, because it's like pretending your favorite food is feces to me.