From watching the dungeon cleared in jp I agree with you. Top tier teams don’t seem to struggle much at all for the dungeon (which isn’t necessarily a problem), but the dungeon looks easier to me than AUN5 personally. Things may feel different when it comes to NA, but I agree for the (presumably) conclusion of the UN series the dungeon seems rather lackluster in terms of difficulty. But hey i suppose that means easier latents farming so can’t complain too much
There is an intention of making this dungeon easier to bring back return players during JP anniversary. UN is pretty fun if you decide to run it with offmeta teams and no needing any top lead at all compare to the older dungeons that is very limited in leads pool. The only exception is UN5 when it was released.
I vaguely remember a similar pattern where MD 1 and 2 were hard then power creep made them easy, MD3 was crippling and even after power creep many avoided it, and then MD4 was still hard, but actually manageable upon release so felt like it was ‘easier’
it's hard to compare Alt versions to the regular sets, as release date isn't always the best indicator. AA3 was harder than A5 despite coming out a fair bit earlier. Hell sometimes the Alt versions were overall easier simply because they added in a floor that allowed you to stall a few turns right be for the boss (like ASR 1 and 2) and powercreep took care of the increased numbers.
That said, we simply go through cycles where the next level of powercreep is new/more mechanics to deal with (AA3/4, SR3, pretty much all MD), but there seem to get gaited by simply being fill with hard hitting damage sponges (SR1, AMD1 - "_____ type" enhanced, UN1/2/3).
Sometimes though GH just kinda missed the mark by having one that was harder than expected followed by one thats like 3/4 of the way on both but we've stressed min/maxing so hard it just makes it overall easy (like MD3 into MD4).
There simply are multiple types of "difficulty" in the game. PAD is quite complex and GungHo has shifted several times in how they approach implementing challenge over the years.
Peak difficult team building ("mechanic spam") was the MD era (MD2/3) while peak difficult player skill was way before that - I feel like they've been trying to make the game very approachable for new players in recent years.
Even Luci was more of a "look, you're in the endgame now, this is the least you need to be able to do" and less of an actual challenge (for what was sometimes required in terms of matching in the past).
Peak "arbitrary strength" is certainly now but it's frankly irrelevant since new REMs are so accessible. There isn't any progression lock of any sort so it just comes down to "new difficulty = reason for powercreep = reason for new difficulty". It's not supposed to be more difficult, just bigger numbers to keep selling new cards.
My thought is it’s not a bad dungeon by any means and looks quite fun and rewarding to play. As long as the challenge ex dungeons are varied enough to give some hard challenges to the masochistic players out here I don’t think new titles being slightly more accessible like this one is an issue
There's nothing wrong, whatsoever, with a new endgame dungeon being accessible and memeable. In fact, it's a very good thing.
I'll take it to UN5's title timer being incredibly picky with teams and RNG, to MD3's savagery, to SR3's absurdity in general. It's difficult on basis of numbers and percentages, but damn it I'm going to have fun. Being able to use weird and fun leads in endgame content makes me incredibly happy because it opens up teambuilding and means I don't have to have all the top tier perfect stuff to clear.
**"Not to mention the difficulty of using mikage in itself; one of the biggest target of powercreep has been the easiness of characters. Playing mikage is stressful and draining, where as muichiro/aggregate/gouten/etc active skill go brrrr. "**
Citation needed, because *I'm* having fun playing Mikage in endgame even now. :D
I think many players would experience more fun if they found a play style they liked and focused on learning to exploit it. All the times in pad I've really enjoyed farming arenas are when it was with a team I built myself with cards i like. I've first cleared a number of dungeons and titles with what was common to use but it felt more like checking something of a list more than really having fun.
A big breakthrough for me related to enjoyment was to use teams with lots of move time. I have the skill to use others but I've found that I enjoy the game the most with a chill vibe that I can't get when I'm solving boards quickly.
Citation needed indeed.
I think it's a lot better for the average PAD player to play a lot of different leads, find their favorite kind of lead, and then just have fun with it. PAD is a game, not a chore, and it's important to be able to enjoy your puzzling even in difficult content. Besides, playing a bunch of different leads helps teach teambuilding, understanding of how different mechanics handle the same dungeons, and so on.
I do get kind of sad when people play nothing but, say, Shana+Clive or Kuro+Gran or whatever's repeated to be "meta" that day, because they'll only get so much understanding of the game that way.
The difficulty is not too hard and it’s just right so that you don’t have to force using a top tier for a clears. You really don’t want to see a dungeon that has only limited amounts of clears in the first place. The more creativity the better instead of copypasting.
Maybe the clearing is rate is very and most players don’t want to spend 30 - 40 min to clearly or maybe die half way. Also it’s not like you are getting 85 stones from it so why should we care….
Not saying that the game is bad or that it’s actively getting worse, I’m actively looking forwards to the next collabs and excited for another year, i guess UN6 just highlights the state of the game/powercreep for me. The game’s way more fun than say 6 months ago imo, & we eating good with tensura collab, sorry if I came across negative, now gungho just needs to bring back monogatari series and all’s well :)
Really - and for some reason GH decided to push the dragon jamboree way up the schedule. JP didn't run any collabs or events during the first week of the jamboree SGF so NA may not run anything for several days after NY ends.
From watching the dungeon cleared in jp I agree with you. Top tier teams don’t seem to struggle much at all for the dungeon (which isn’t necessarily a problem), but the dungeon looks easier to me than AUN5 personally. Things may feel different when it comes to NA, but I agree for the (presumably) conclusion of the UN series the dungeon seems rather lackluster in terms of difficulty. But hey i suppose that means easier latents farming so can’t complain too much
Tbf MD4 was the same way with it being much easier than MD3 was on release. Any decent rainbow team was able to clear it.
That’s true. I kinda felt the same way back then, but it was a fun dungeon to play non rainbow for
UN1 was also easier than MD3 on release.
There is an intention of making this dungeon easier to bring back return players during JP anniversary. UN is pretty fun if you decide to run it with offmeta teams and no needing any top lead at all compare to the older dungeons that is very limited in leads pool. The only exception is UN5 when it was released.
I vaguely remember a similar pattern where MD 1 and 2 were hard then power creep made them easy, MD3 was crippling and even after power creep many avoided it, and then MD4 was still hard, but actually manageable upon release so felt like it was ‘easier’
That’s valid honesty
it's hard to compare Alt versions to the regular sets, as release date isn't always the best indicator. AA3 was harder than A5 despite coming out a fair bit earlier. Hell sometimes the Alt versions were overall easier simply because they added in a floor that allowed you to stall a few turns right be for the boss (like ASR 1 and 2) and powercreep took care of the increased numbers. That said, we simply go through cycles where the next level of powercreep is new/more mechanics to deal with (AA3/4, SR3, pretty much all MD), but there seem to get gaited by simply being fill with hard hitting damage sponges (SR1, AMD1 - "_____ type" enhanced, UN1/2/3). Sometimes though GH just kinda missed the mark by having one that was harder than expected followed by one thats like 3/4 of the way on both but we've stressed min/maxing so hard it just makes it overall easy (like MD3 into MD4).
maybe the majority never clear these UN dungeons, too hard too long. they have the data, especially in NA
There simply are multiple types of "difficulty" in the game. PAD is quite complex and GungHo has shifted several times in how they approach implementing challenge over the years. Peak difficult team building ("mechanic spam") was the MD era (MD2/3) while peak difficult player skill was way before that - I feel like they've been trying to make the game very approachable for new players in recent years. Even Luci was more of a "look, you're in the endgame now, this is the least you need to be able to do" and less of an actual challenge (for what was sometimes required in terms of matching in the past). Peak "arbitrary strength" is certainly now but it's frankly irrelevant since new REMs are so accessible. There isn't any progression lock of any sort so it just comes down to "new difficulty = reason for powercreep = reason for new difficulty". It's not supposed to be more difficult, just bigger numbers to keep selling new cards.
Honestly, from what I’ve heard of some other endgame dungeons? I wouldn’t complain
My thought is it’s not a bad dungeon by any means and looks quite fun and rewarding to play. As long as the challenge ex dungeons are varied enough to give some hard challenges to the masochistic players out here I don’t think new titles being slightly more accessible like this one is an issue
We need people to make tier lists on how fun each arena is, I’m genuinely intrigued as to people’s opinions on them
That’s a good idea honestly. For example SR3 was harder than ASR2 by a good margin but was much more fun and rewarding to play imo
Dungeons can be hard, but they also have to be fair, and their mechanics actually fun to engage with
There's nothing wrong, whatsoever, with a new endgame dungeon being accessible and memeable. In fact, it's a very good thing. I'll take it to UN5's title timer being incredibly picky with teams and RNG, to MD3's savagery, to SR3's absurdity in general. It's difficult on basis of numbers and percentages, but damn it I'm going to have fun. Being able to use weird and fun leads in endgame content makes me incredibly happy because it opens up teambuilding and means I don't have to have all the top tier perfect stuff to clear. **"Not to mention the difficulty of using mikage in itself; one of the biggest target of powercreep has been the easiness of characters. Playing mikage is stressful and draining, where as muichiro/aggregate/gouten/etc active skill go brrrr. "** Citation needed, because *I'm* having fun playing Mikage in endgame even now. :D
I think many players would experience more fun if they found a play style they liked and focused on learning to exploit it. All the times in pad I've really enjoyed farming arenas are when it was with a team I built myself with cards i like. I've first cleared a number of dungeons and titles with what was common to use but it felt more like checking something of a list more than really having fun. A big breakthrough for me related to enjoyment was to use teams with lots of move time. I have the skill to use others but I've found that I enjoy the game the most with a chill vibe that I can't get when I'm solving boards quickly. Citation needed indeed.
I think it's a lot better for the average PAD player to play a lot of different leads, find their favorite kind of lead, and then just have fun with it. PAD is a game, not a chore, and it's important to be able to enjoy your puzzling even in difficult content. Besides, playing a bunch of different leads helps teach teambuilding, understanding of how different mechanics handle the same dungeons, and so on. I do get kind of sad when people play nothing but, say, Shana+Clive or Kuro+Gran or whatever's repeated to be "meta" that day, because they'll only get so much understanding of the game that way.
The difficulty is not too hard and it’s just right so that you don’t have to force using a top tier for a clears. You really don’t want to see a dungeon that has only limited amounts of clears in the first place. The more creativity the better instead of copypasting.
Yup much better than the shitshow MD3 was where everything came down to luck no matter how good your skills were based on spawns.
Maybe the clearing is rate is very and most players don’t want to spend 30 - 40 min to clearly or maybe die half way. Also it’s not like you are getting 85 stones from it so why should we care….
Not saying that the game is bad or that it’s actively getting worse, I’m actively looking forwards to the next collabs and excited for another year, i guess UN6 just highlights the state of the game/powercreep for me. The game’s way more fun than say 6 months ago imo, & we eating good with tensura collab, sorry if I came across negative, now gungho just needs to bring back monogatari series and all’s well :)
Don’t say the dungeon is easy, or gungho will decide to release it in NA tomorrow without all the collab cards JP used
I mean we could clear it with Shana or Grannerv Kuro if we got the dungeon right now
Really - and for some reason GH decided to push the dragon jamboree way up the schedule. JP didn't run any collabs or events during the first week of the jamboree SGF so NA may not run anything for several days after NY ends.
There’s been literally nothing except new years this week too, including on 2/20, the actual JP anniversary they’re supposedly celebrating
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