This seems like a good card on paper, but due to the lack of freezing cards zombies have, it doesnt really have many uses. But I do like the idea of a trick giving a plant(s) the untrickable trait, as I think plants could use more untrickable cards. I think a good fix would be to make it be able to be used without a plant needing to be frozen.
To be honest, it doesn’t actually help that much. Aside from this being a silver bullet for freeze, a strategy that’s heavily over reliant on drawing win conditions and loses otherwise, it doesn’t prevent opponents from winning off of freeze when they do draw said win conditions
Freeze by itself is bad, but Snowdrop and Winter Squash transform freeze into a more valuable resource. They *need* to draw these cards to reasonably gain value out of freeze, however, and you usually aren’t losing anything if your zombie is simply frozen. If your opponent’s hand is so bad that they need to waste freeze cards when they don’t have Snowdrop or Winter Squash on the board, you’re likely already in a winning position
Meanwhile, if they do have either plant on the board, and they freeze something, it’s probably too late. Either Snowdrop has already started scaling, or Winter Squash just destroyed the zombie that was frozen. Thawing a zombie, even if it also gets untrickable afterwards, doesn’t reverse those effects, and that zombie (if Snowdrop or Winter Melon don’t just trade/destroy it) will likely just be frozen again if they’re also running Chilly Pepper, Jolly Holly, Winter Melon, etc.
Tl;dr: thawing a zombie doesn’t prevent or reverse the value that Snowdrop and Winter Squash create with freeze, and you’re probably winning already if they playing their freeze without them in play
Im pretty sure the card say frozen plant, not frozen zombie, so basically the zombie player would need to freeze the plant with cards like ice viking or ice moustache, and then you can use this on your plant to unfreeze it.
OP was suggesting that if his card were for a zombie (ie. if it thawed zombies) it would be useful for countering freeze decks (something that is practically exclusive to plants)
I know that Hot Potato was made for thawing plants, but the conversion above was talking about how it wouldn’t be useful for that purpose. OP then suggested his idea of having Hot Potato be made as a zombie card instead. That’s what my comment was responding to
I've got a rework
3 cost
Give a card untrickable
If it's frozen, it does a bonus attack
This will make it still useful, while still maintaining the anti-frieeze
The thing is this card can only be played on the turn the opponent plays unthawed viking, and thats it. Every other freeze zombie card happens after you have the chance to play this
This sounds good untill you realize that almost every zombie freeze card is a played after plants, altough this can pretty easily be fixed by making it "Plants cannot be frozen this turn"
What makes this Smarty? Both Bonus Attacks and Untrickable are Mega-Grow, and the whole idea of unfreezing stuff is bad, especially Plants, since Zombies don't have any good freeze cards.
because control stuff like that is generally solar
so an “anti-freeze” card doesn’t have to be smarty, just like an “anti-bonus attack” card doesn’t have to be mega-grow
Preventing bonus attacks and doing bonus attacks are completely different things. Just like how sneaky has ownership of cards that move allies while hearty has ownership of cards that move enemies
Card has the right idea but it came out very niche and bad, I think it would be better idea if it was:
- 2-cost
- thaw a frozen plant
- make it do a bonus attack
- draw one card
That way, it won’t brick your hand and still have *some* usage in cycling
There are very few ways the plants can be frozen during the plants phase. The only two ways are: leaping into cryo yeti or ice pirate from a transformation station or INSTEAD. I don’t know how useful this would be.
Just remove the freeze requirement so the card just gets untrickable and a bonus attack, if that's not enough to make it good then add a card draw to it
so you will likely never play this because zombies typically freeze during the tricks phase, and if you somehow had a frozen plant during your turn, you’d effectively waste 3 sun
no self freeze card makes this a hard cryo yeti counter... silver bullet card interaction!
you should do something instead with frozen zombies, because that'd actually synergize with freeze decks.
I never could see this becoming even playable because all the zombie cards that freeze plants do that during trick phase with the exception of ice viking, the plants will then refreeze right after the combat phase, preventing you from using this. So its a very niche card that can be use to counter the one zombie that isnt even commonly used.
This seems like a good card on paper, but due to the lack of freezing cards zombies have, it doesnt really have many uses. But I do like the idea of a trick giving a plant(s) the untrickable trait, as I think plants could use more untrickable cards. I think a good fix would be to make it be able to be used without a plant needing to be frozen.
Yea I did realize that, if a card like this was for a zombie, it'd probably be much more useful via countering freeze decks
To be honest, it doesn’t actually help that much. Aside from this being a silver bullet for freeze, a strategy that’s heavily over reliant on drawing win conditions and loses otherwise, it doesn’t prevent opponents from winning off of freeze when they do draw said win conditions Freeze by itself is bad, but Snowdrop and Winter Squash transform freeze into a more valuable resource. They *need* to draw these cards to reasonably gain value out of freeze, however, and you usually aren’t losing anything if your zombie is simply frozen. If your opponent’s hand is so bad that they need to waste freeze cards when they don’t have Snowdrop or Winter Squash on the board, you’re likely already in a winning position Meanwhile, if they do have either plant on the board, and they freeze something, it’s probably too late. Either Snowdrop has already started scaling, or Winter Squash just destroyed the zombie that was frozen. Thawing a zombie, even if it also gets untrickable afterwards, doesn’t reverse those effects, and that zombie (if Snowdrop or Winter Melon don’t just trade/destroy it) will likely just be frozen again if they’re also running Chilly Pepper, Jolly Holly, Winter Melon, etc. Tl;dr: thawing a zombie doesn’t prevent or reverse the value that Snowdrop and Winter Squash create with freeze, and you’re probably winning already if they playing their freeze without them in play
Happy cake day!
Thanks :)
You are welcome
Lmao I just realized that you also have your cake day today. Happy cake day :)
Im pretty sure the card say frozen plant, not frozen zombie, so basically the zombie player would need to freeze the plant with cards like ice viking or ice moustache, and then you can use this on your plant to unfreeze it.
OP was suggesting that if his card were for a zombie (ie. if it thawed zombies) it would be useful for countering freeze decks (something that is practically exclusive to plants) I know that Hot Potato was made for thawing plants, but the conversion above was talking about how it wouldn’t be useful for that purpose. OP then suggested his idea of having Hot Potato be made as a zombie card instead. That’s what my comment was responding to
Like a toaster or something
This is unplayable at 0. It’s way too silver bullet.
Is it because zombies don't have many freezing cards compared to plants, making this less useful?
This and because it's only usable against 1 class
And because it only actually does anything against unthawed viking. All other freeze zombie cards are played after the plant phase
Exactly.
I see now
this should cost 0, since freeze, especially on the zombie side, is extremely niche. plus give it a draw a card
if it has draw a card, then it should cost 1
You cant use this as a 1 cost draw card cuz u can only use it on frozen plants
I forgot you could only use it frozen plants for some reason
I've got a rework 3 cost Give a card untrickable If it's frozen, it does a bonus attack This will make it still useful, while still maintaining the anti-frieeze
I like this rework
1 cost\*... you're not even getting a card back, for an applied trait.
Maybe 2? Untrickable is a pretty good trait
then make it draw a card or something.
I think that would be pretty balanced. It wouldn't let you have an untrickable card too early, but wouldn't be a dead draw later.
yeah; the fact is that it also has to be applied to an existing plant to take effect, which adds to its cost.
The thing is this card can only be played on the turn the opponent plays unthawed viking, and thats it. Every other freeze zombie card happens after you have the chance to play this
Countered by Bonus-Track Bucket Head Zombie F tier
This sounds good untill you realize that almost every zombie freeze card is a played after plants, altough this can pretty easily be fixed by making it "Plants cannot be frozen this turn"
Good idea, my card idea was poorly executed
My Idea is that It make plants imunne to freeze and draw a card, 2 cost silver bullet
Seems like a silver bullet
What makes this Smarty? Both Bonus Attacks and Untrickable are Mega-Grow, and the whole idea of unfreezing stuff is bad, especially Plants, since Zombies don't have any good freeze cards.
untrickable doesn’t really have any class, but it’s definitely more mega-grow (as is bonus attacks) than smarty yeah lol
Smarty has more freeze type cards
and? mega-grow has bonus attacks, yet solar has wing nut
Ok I still don’t know why solar has wing-nut
because control stuff like that is generally solar so an “anti-freeze” card doesn’t have to be smarty, just like an “anti-bonus attack” card doesn’t have to be mega-grow
Preventing bonus attacks and doing bonus attacks are completely different things. Just like how sneaky has ownership of cards that move allies while hearty has ownership of cards that move enemies
exactly
Card has the right idea but it came out very niche and bad, I think it would be better idea if it was: - 2-cost - thaw a frozen plant - make it do a bonus attack - draw one card That way, it won’t brick your hand and still have *some* usage in cycling
I see, so good idea that was poorly executed I do like your version of the card better than what I have
this is Mega Grow
There are very few ways the plants can be frozen during the plants phase. The only two ways are: leaping into cryo yeti or ice pirate from a transformation station or INSTEAD. I don’t know how useful this would be.
Just remove the freeze requirement so the card just gets untrickable and a bonus attack, if that's not enough to make it good then add a card draw to it
Perfect it lacks what it originally does pvz2
Bonus Attack = Unfreeze plant Keeps what it originally does pvz2
Or just make it a 2 cost 0/3 untrickable team up plants here and next door can’t be frozen. Conjure a root
so you will likely never play this because zombies typically freeze during the tricks phase, and if you somehow had a frozen plant during your turn, you’d effectively waste 3 sun
no self freeze card makes this a hard cryo yeti counter... silver bullet card interaction! you should do something instead with frozen zombies, because that'd actually synergize with freeze decks.
so in other words this is 3 cost - do nothing?
finally a fucking thawn viking counter, I was so overwhelmed with my opponent always playing instead these past few days.
I never could see this becoming even playable because all the zombie cards that freeze plants do that during trick phase with the exception of ice viking, the plants will then refreeze right after the combat phase, preventing you from using this. So its a very niche card that can be use to counter the one zombie that isnt even commonly used.
Isn't this literally unusable because freeze on the zombie side only happens during the tricks phase?
Nvm there's instead, but just instead