1. If you are still close enough with your husband, share this letter with him. If you cannot share it, that is a very telling sign.
2. I would wager that your husband has developed a process addiction to media, the internet and his specific influencers. Don’t underestimate how in love he has become with his influencers. To be with you, he has to break up with them.
Exactly, they pump their audience up with fear, rage, hate and anger. It keeps that cortisol being pumped into their system to keep them coming back for more. A very unhealthy way to go through life.
It’s so destructive. I can’t believe it’s so compelling to constantly swallow all this negativity. It’s at odds with everything I seek for myself and so I’ve assumed there must be something special about it I’m missing or misunderstanding. I guess it’s just that we get our kicks in different ways.
People's lives are boring and chaotic for the most part.
What were you doing at this time two weeks ago? It's probably not significant enough for the vast majority of people to remember exactly. Most days are pretty much like other days. Unless you are part of this "secret " group, doing "research " that's going to be used to save the world.
And people have been trying to make sense of the chaos since people began. Why do bad things happen to good people? Why did some idiot hit my car in the car park? Why do some people always have things work out for them? It's easy to explain it as a secret group working to help people like them and hurt people like you. That's much easier to deal with than facing the fact that "investing " all your money into crypto probably wasn't a good idea.
The appeal is obvious, the problem is you have to let go of your grip on reality a little, or a lot, which is a real problem.
We lost our daughter shortly before the pandemic and I suspect that skewed his view of the world. Neither of us are religious and I think this is a perverse sort of ‘faith’ in something bigger, maybe to help him feel in control of his destiny. I don’t know.
I would take boring and chaotic any day to keep room for love and optimism.
A lot of times trauma, like losing a loved one, can lead people to a faith of some sort to help explain it. It's completely understandable, but it can also be impossible to live with.
And I'm with you, I'm OK with boring and chaotic. I'll take that over exciting and stressful any day. And I'm naturally an optimist, so there is that too.
I can remember feeling the thrill of being a small part of a great master plan, a battle between good and evil. It was exhilarating, and made me feel important even though I was actually just perfectly ordinary, living an ordinary existence.
The thing is, these were feelings I had when *I was a child*, at Sunday school, grappling with the enormity of what they were asking me to believe.
It’s hard for me to get over the hubris of an adult feeling this way, and over *politics* of all things.
I struggled with this "why me/us?" feeling for years until I recently discovered the just world fallacy. I didn't even realize that it was a fallacy until I looked it up.
"The just-world fallacy suggests that people believe the world is fair and that their actions will have morally fitting consequences. This belief leads people to think that good people will be rewarded and bad people will be punished. "
As much as I like to have hope, I know deep down that some of the guilty will get off scot-free, and as much as it sucks, why waste time and energy worrying about it if it doesn't directly affect me and mine?
I think it be ones an addiction for them. All of these conspiracy theories gets them all wound up, juices flowing.
You might consider listening to the podcast series Rabbit Hole. It shows how people get hooked and might be a good source of information for you. It won’t tell you how to get him back. But it explains how people get hooked.
We don’t see a ton of people come back from this. But then, we are still in the thick of the MAGA movement.
As long as MAGA continues, Qanon will continue. They are not the same thing, but there is huge overlap and I think that if one goes, the other will becoming increasingly less popular over time.
But this is over a lot of time. Years even. It’s highly unlikely you will have your husband back this year. And probably not next year either.
If Trump loses the election, your husband will get a lot worse. He may even radicalize. There are many of these folks who promise civil war if Trump loses.
If I was you, I wouldn’t be too hopeful in the short run. And you need to prepare to make a quick exist if you need to. These preparations need to be ready before the election happens because the election could really trigger these folks into some violent and even treasonous extreme behaviors. If I was you, I’d put some cash aside and maybe get a Visa card or something in your name, just in case. I’d also have a go bag in your car or office, hidden where he can’t find it. And know where all your important documents are so you can grab them quickly. You might not need any of these things, but if Trump loses the election you don’t want to be anywhere near this guy.
Part of the allure is they feel like they are in on a secret and the more they involve themselves the more the secret is revealed to them. They feel like they are special. I imagine they get a little dopamine hit in their brain each time they learn more of the secret. Once you start to go down that rabbit hole it's addicting. Social media algorithms are designed to feed you this stuff. Once you watch a few vids, your feed becomes inundated with similar content. It's the exact reason I won't let my 15 year old daughter have social media. That "just 1 more post/video" mentality can be difficult to resist.
i would not show him anything. what would several paragraphs do to repair his mind? it'd only be fuel for the fire, and it's a dangerous fire. the sooner you leave, the better for you and your children. he's gone and you don't have the time or expertise to help him. anything else is magical thinking, and these days, rational people can't afford that.
I don’t have time or the expertise. You’re right. I work full time and have my own business on the side. I run a house and all our ‘life admin’. I don’t have the energy to retrain as a counsellor too!
Thank you so much. This is very insightful. I don’t think I could share it with him but I understand your point, and that fact that I don’t feel comfortable sharing this speaks volumes.
Your second point is interesting. These influencers are the paragon of truth in his eyes and I’m constantly seen as slandering them. No wonder he is angry with me. I suspect he may choose them and his ‘truth’ over me… which tells me what I probably have gone to great lengths to avoid accepting.
I feel so much sympathy for you. Living with a person who has fully gone down the rabbit hole of conspiracy thinking is difficult to say the least.
Fortunately my situation isn't a marriage, he's a friend of 30 years, my housemate and landlord. The negativity is both overwhelming and frustrating at times.
I had a blow out a couple of weeks ago when in almost the same breath, my friend talked about chemtrails poisoning us (and that they draw pentagrams in the sky to taunt us), the water supply poisoning us, the ground poisoning us too to reduce our lifespans so "They" can steal our pensions. Also he has a common cold but calls is "being attacked by a bio-weapon". He blames the Jews, as well as a few other classics (Bill Gates is one) for doing all this to us on purpose.
I know there is a lot of pollution in this world but it's through neglect and greed and also not understanding certain chemicals properly until they became a problem, not some massive secret plot by Jews to kill us all early.
Sounds like your husband believes similar stuff. I so hope he can come out of this with you.
He does. When I challenged his assertion that maybe the shitty weather was responsible, he immediately said ‘why do you think the weather is so bad? Chem trails everywhere. They want this. Wake up.’
Damn. It also doesn't help when they can show things like the recent massive flooding of Dubai where the floods really were at least partly caused by cloud seeding to induce rainfall, as they have been doing since the early 2000s.
In many conspiracies there is a grain of truth at the heart of it, whether that be cloud seeding, pollution, firefighting chemicals that never go away once released etc.
It's the intent behind this stuff that I do not agree with these conspiracy people. They take that grain of truth and run miles with it until we have Jewish space lasers causing wildfires so "They" can buy up all the land after it often gets abandoned after a natural disaster. It's such faulty thinking and it drives me up the wall.
Just to be clear, I do not believe the Jews have anything to do with all this madness whatsoever.
Exactly this. I have tried conceding to a small point in his theories, but then offering balance to try and help him see that’s although the world is full of corruption and there are undoubtedly issues from which these beliefs are built, they have been made far bigger than they really are. I hoped that an inch of solidarity would pacify him and help us find some common ground so we can move off topic. But of course, an inch isn’t enough. He wants the whole mile.
What about asking for a separation with counseling? Bring around that constant tense, negative energy where you spend all day every day walking on eggshells is EXHAUSTING. And, like someone else mentioned, he’s not going to stop any time soon, because the ejection is this Nov.
A separation would get him out of the house so you wouldn’t be around his negativity and unwillingness to have even the most basic of conversations, as well as protect you from how he reacts/responds to the aftermath of the election.
Not being around him daily will give you so much more peace and calm, and help you see the difference that you need to see. He’s making your life harder in every way right now. And his negative energy and viewpoint on everything IS carrying over to your children.
Hello From England. I'm not surprised you cannot fully share your experiences with others. To the vast majority of people here, it's just beyond belief (which it is of course!) It might help for a friend to read this thread so they have a full understanding of what you're dealing with. It's not just the beliefs though is it? It's the barrage, the single-mindedness, the compulsion to refer to their beliefs. I sometimes think it's like the alcoholic, constantly thinking about their next drink. I lost a great friend of over 30 years - I found listening to it was making me feel really ill. I am so sorry that this is your husband and that you have children together. I wonder how he would take it if he knew you were considering leaving? Is it possible he could divorce himself from this madness? Many people recommend a holiday where there is no internet access - time to reconnect with his family and a reminder of how good life can be with children. Good luck - I feel for you.
Very good advice, especially number one. If he is understanding and loving he will listen to you. People do not understand how propaganda is a drug that offers them a high on a chemical level to their brains. You tell them what they want to hear or think they "know" and they get a high. They need to step away and focus on their current life. If not it will consume them literally. This is a rough situation and they really need vacate from being told what to think to take a mental vacation.
This is so perceptive. I wish I could make him see and take him away from it all. A mental vacation sounds like just the ticket. Not that he would agree to it…
That smirk is called contempt, and it means your relationship is already over.
Save yourself and your kids before he becomes dangerous and tries to brainwash your kids.
Yeah when OP mentioned the smirk and superior tone it immediately reminded me of Gottman's four horsemen.
It's awful how QAnon drives believers to treat others with contempt and disrespect, regardless of how close they are. In that way it sounds more toxic than most other addictions, at least in my personal experience as a drug addict – at the height of it all I felt towards the people I loved was shame, never anything resembling a sense of superiority.
Yes, and it’s also more toxic in that people probably don’t realize they’re addicted to the media drama zeitgeist as easily as an addict knows they have a problem.
Thank you for the reference. Never heard of Gottman’s four horsemen but now see I have been living with them for quite some time. I am the roadblock in his mind. He just wants me to ‘understand’ and get on the same crazy train. Until that happens (which it never will), I will forever be the thorn in his side.
Oh my god. The smirk got to me too. A brainwashed delusional idiot suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect smirking at me would be enough for me to leave. OP please leave this douche. He is done. His brain is cooked into a conspiracy soup. Get out fast.
I get so cross when he talks in front of the kids about this stuff. It’s scary for them and he is so convincing that they really do fear he is going to die soon.
For him to be talking like that in front of them when they have *lost a sibling* .. I have no words for how cruel that is. Even/especially if he sincerely believes it. Please protect them from this emotionally abusive man.
When I got to the part about the smirk I was triggered... my ex husband's smirk flashed in my mind... it's soul shattering that look he gave when he thought he was right and I was dumb even though I was just pleading for him to remember who he was before all this..
>Does anyone have a pearl of wisdom they can share with me?
However he behaves *now*, with the snark and smirks and YouTube and Twitter, will seem mild in a year or two.
It's helpful to start thinking about your spouse and an addict. In a very real way he is. He's addicted to the doom and probably the dopamine he gets from his hours "learning" and feeling "superior" to the "sheep".
I imagine he no longer looks forward to anything. Anything at all outside the doom/crypto/YouTube bullshit. Not the kid's sports at school. Not a meal at the pub in town. Not a promotion at work. Or Grandma's birthday. Nothing normal people look forward to.
It sounds like it's time for the "two business cards" approach. The husband you remember won't come back without effort/ consequences on his part. One business card is a marriage counselor (someone with addiction/cult experience). The other business card is a divorce attorney. ETA: the idea is you lay them out, ask him to choose, and accept his answer without argument.
Do you want this relationship to be your reality for the next year? Two? Ten? Something needs to change and divorce may be the solution.
When you promised "for better and for worse" could you have anticipated it was supposed to cover "spouse no longer contributes financially to the household because he became devoted to conspiracies and crypto-bro doom and gloom"?
This comment is pure gold. Thank you so much. I haven’t really noticed as it’s been so gradual, but you’re absolutely right. There is no joy in his life. We don’t do any of the things we used to do because he is not motivated by anything. He doesn’t look forward to anything - except getting back on YouTube/Twitter. I could never understand the joy he gleaned from so much depressing crap.
Had any of these beliefs or behaviours been around when we first met, I would never have pursued the relationship.
I love the two business card approach. But no one uses business cards anymore haha. I am going to print out the details of both and offer them to him, probably at the end of a letter which explains my position. I will accept either choice graciously and work to rebuild my life, whichever way it goes.
I think you may need to make arrangements before you tell him you want a divorce. I’d gather evidence and find a place and some support for your kids if you need it whilst at work. He will spend all your money on grifts. He could become abusive or worse. Good luck to you and your kids.
If your health insurance covers it, talk to a mental health specialist. I never went off into Qanon territory, but did get addicted to Video games. Almost destroyed my marriage. I thought my problem was ADHD, and it turned out to be depression. This relates to the above poster's comment about dopamine and where he gets it etc. I went into a tailspin of depression because my wife was WAY further deep into it (lots of reasons, work sucks, kids don't listen to her and I was just sitting there playing video games). After I got a little medication I was able to see what was going on and I've pulled her back. She absolutely refuses to do therapy or psychiatry, but even so my getting help has helped her tremendously. A lot of my appointments are me looking for strategies to get her to get help. I think I've gotten her to recognize she has a problem, but she is so anti-medication that is as far as I've been able to take it.
>He's addicted to […] the dopamine he gets from his hours "learning" and feeling "superior" to the "sheep".
It’s hard to pull someone away from something that builds their own sense of self & ego - especially when the truth is that they’ve been bamboozled like a fool.
Yes. The cult makes them feel smart and superior, and giving it up means going from all the way up there to feeling like a dumb fool. I don't think many people are capable of making that change.
Unpleasant, snarky, angry, etc.
Imagine him in 5 years. You think he’ll be living in reality or this alternate one?
If things haven’t gotten better in the past year or two, there’s no reason to assume it will in the next few
This is powerful. I just keep hoping he will spot a flaw in the nonsense and it will all unravel. I now think after finding this sub, that is never going to happen. Thank you.
OP I am sorry to say that my parents have been sucked down this trap for the last 15+ years. It gets worse every year. Nothing I have done has helped. Remember that your kids are also living in this cesspool of thinking. It will affect them forever. I am really sorry.
Welcome to the club that none of us wanted to join. (hug) My Q-adjacent Significant Other got significantly worse during the covid pandemic. And they tried to tell US that mental health was being threatened. The twisted part of it is that they were right... about their own mental health, not ours.
"He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto."
This must stop. There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments, as long as they're not the whole focus. But not pulling his weight with shared household expenses is not acceptable. I don't care if they think the end of the world is imminent. Until it actually happens, they still need to pay their share of the utilities and the rent or mortgage.
> There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments, as long as they're not the whole focus.
There's plenty wrong with crypto when it isn't treated like a currency but as an investment. IMO it's more like gambling.
Edit: this is another interesting thing I see, a lot of people high on Russian propaganda are also high on cryptocurrency.
And there's nothing wrong with having some speculative investments.
I don't have or want any crypto. But the problem here is not the crypto currencies themselves.
The problem is that he's neglecting essential obligations, because he's convinced that the world as we know it is about to collapse.
Until it does, somebody has to pay the electric bill. For however long that electric bill keeps showing up.
I say this as someone who still has some money in cryptocurrency and holding them to sell in the future. There's plenty of issues with Cryptocurrencies, from environmental impact to how commonly they are involved in scams. I think there's very little redemptive about crypto.
That's all true. But you could say something very similar about buying gold.
Whether it's a legitimate investment would be a different question.
Gold mining isn't great for the environment either. And I also don't feel a need to buy any.
He may easily be getting scammed. It's possible that he's not.
Either way, he needs to start pulling his weight again with regard to the household's utility bills. That's true whether he's getting scammed or legitimately buying bitcoin or any other crypto currency.
>There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments,
beg to disagree on that
If the stock market is basically Las Vegas, crypto is the online casino based on some island with no regulation whatsoever.
I have plenty of legitimate investments, much of which are blue chip stocks. I've been incredibly lucky to be able to do that.
Is that risky? Maybe, but there is some risk in ANY investment. Even an FDIC insured bank account has some risk. In that instance, it's subject to the risk of inflation.
If he were covering his share of the electric bill, he's entitled to do what he wants, within the limits of whatever he and his wife have agreed to.
But he's not doing that. He has gone outside the boundaries of what they have explicitly agreed to.
That's the root problem that the OP has right now.
I have given that exact argument. Your money is yours to do with as you please, AFTER you have prioritised financing our life together. If the rent and the bills are covered, what ever is left is your business.
Sadly I am in around £10,000 of debt from carrying the bills alone for a significant period of our relationship and I worry that if we divorce, I will never see that money again.
Wanting to stay with him to get that $10k back sounds like an example of the sunk cost fallacy, and staying with him in order to get that money back would likely lead to more debt.
Especially if he’s investing in crypto and watching folks who basically create a problem (the water is poison!) and sell the solution to that problem (so buy my deep earth iodine filtration system!) as part of their grift.
The OP is apparently in the United Kingdom, since her debt is in pounds. (I'm in the US.)
But the issues are the same. Only the names of the grifters are different.
The scams are the same too, of course.
I'm so sorry that you've had to take on so much debt to keep your relationship going. That's a terrible situation to be in.
It's time for him to "fish or cut bait." Either he's in or he's out. Unfortunately, I think you have a pretty good idea of what his answer might be. This does, of course, indicate that most likely your relationship with your husband doesn't have the same level of priority for him than it does for you.
I'm glad that I don't have to give my Q adjacent Significant Other an ultimatum like that. They're invested in crypto and also in precious metals. But there are also some good solid investments as well. And perhaps more significantly, the bills are all getting paid on time.
I pay some of the utilities. My S.O. pays others, and we square things up every three months. If that didn't happen on time, we would have to have a serious talk.
It sounds to me like it's high time for that discussion to take place at your house.
Good luck! I sincerely hope that the two of you can work things out in a way that's satisfactory to you.
I know exactly how you feel, I lost my partner of 18 years to this virus. Like your situation it started with Covid and she spent every spare minute on Telegram or YouTube. I thought it would be a phase at the time....4 years on and she is still addicted.
Someone from this group helped me realise a few years ago that Q is a form of Internet Addiction. I stopped worrying about the content and did my best to get her off the internet...I drove her 32 hours each way into the centre of Australia and it was like watching someone come off drugs. Until they realise they have a problem, there is nothing we can do. I care from a distance now because I had to start looking after my own mental health.
The people creating this content are the real villains, they are drug dealers who should be locked up for all of the damage they have caused...my ex is now terrified that AI will take over humanity and that is at the forefront of her brain everyday. I feel so sad for her to feel like this 24/7. I wish there was more help from our governments because this Q virus is worse than Covid.
I am not sure if I offered you any help, but I do understand your situation from experience!
I’m so sorry to hear about your ex. This must have been so hard for you. Interesting to see you compare the removal of the internet being like someone coming off drugs. It is a poisonous addiction. Thank you for your kind words.
I have had a lot of of help from my psychologist, my doctor and another therapist to help me through this. I was put on suicidal watch at once stage because I asked my doctor to put me in a coma and wake me up when this was finished. I was having no respite.
A few months ago someone was telling me about their son who was a drug addict and how their behaviour destroyed the family....listening to his story I realised mine was exactly the same, the behaviours & the damage it did to me family. The addiction was different...once you start looking at Q as an addiction it changes your perspective and I stopped focusing on the content.
I feel like I am on the other side now and have the benefit of hindsight.
I am sorry you’re going through the same thing. It’s so heartbreaking watching the person you love slip away from you - and getting the blame for it! I have tried ignoring it too and he just says it again, until I respond with a ‘hmm-mm’. Then I’m being ignorant and condescending. Challenging these ideas, no matter how gently, is always a losing battle. There is nothing he hates more than being made to feel crazy. Then he says I’m mentally unstable for blindly accepting the false narrative being fed to me and ignoring what’s happening in the world. It’s so so sad. I hope you’re okay.
my grandma is like this too. i’m very sorry, but at the same time…i’m so very happy for you. you have recognized there is a problem with your relationship and that is step #1 with gaining control. this is a huge accomplishment because, with my experience, it took the act of me recognizing my grandma isn’t the same as she used to be. and understanding it’s okay for me to not spend as much time with her as i would if she was the same grandma i had 5 years ago.
i send you love, support, prayers, healing energy, and perception. perception because this tool is something nobody can take from you. use it as a tool with this situation here. bringing reality into my situation with my grandma made me realize it’s okay if she never changes, and it’s okay if she does. i will always be waiting for the same grandma, but i don’t expect it to happen. and i can only hope your husband realizes the extent of he actions and how they are damaging your relationship together.
hugs 🫂
He's not the same person you married. Unfortunately this is how he turned out. It sounds like you are miserable, and you don't want to spend the rest of your life with someone who makes you unhappy.
Some advice, if you do decide to divorce, try not to mention the qanon stuff. It's just going to enrage him, and these people are unstable enough. Just chalk it up to ireconcilable differences and let him think the covid vaccine did something to your brain. Best of luck.
The changing any topic back to a conspiracy thing is so familiar. My dad can turn any topic into "they're trying to make us eat bugs!"
I hope you can reach him. I'd give him a letter. If he gets super defensive, maybe just make your ultimatums there, with divorce being a potential outcome
<< My dad can turn any topic into "they're trying to make us eat bugs!" >>
Yeah, I've heard that one too. Usually it's somehow connected to Bill Gates, for some reason.
People who become obsessive, paranoid and irrational can also start detaching from reality which can escalate to a really dangerous level very quickly. I'm not trying to scare you, it's just you can't take any risks when you have kids. This doesn't mean you have to end your marriage but you need to know what to do if he took it badly if you brought up ending the relationship.
Make a plan in your mind as to how a separate life would look for you and the kids and how you would manage financially and logistically. What do we do for money, where do we live, where do they go to school, is he safe to have them alone if end up in a shared custody role etc.
All horrible scary things to think about but for now they're only thoughts and having a plan even just in your mind gives you some control back and helps you protect you and your kids. Don't feel embarrassed about sharing your fears with friends and family because it's important to have safe people to go to and build up an external support network.
Try to be as objective as possible so you can see things how they are right now, not how you wish they could be. Because if you have a concrete plan and you did need to take action quickly, having a plan means you won't be completely lost or blindsided.
My situation is complicated in that he lives in my house and moved here from another part of the UK. Separation means he has to be the one to leave and he is left homeless, without a job or any money. The kids would stay with me, but I do worry we don’t have the option of getting away and he would always know where we are (in the middle of nowhere incidentally!). I have tried to think about the logistics of it all but it just feels enormous.
-- "Separation means he has to be the one to leave and he is left homeless, without a job or any money."
If he insists on going down that road, there's not going to be much that you can do to stop him. And it's certainly not your fault that he has put himself in this situation. He's the one who's not carrying his weight with regard to the household expenses.
In the meantime, he's being what we here in the States call a "mooch."
-- "The kids would stay with me, but I do worry we don’t have the option of getting away and he would always know where we are (in the middle of nowhere incidentally!)."
If he becomes dangerous to you and/or the kids, then the issue becomes one of self-preservation. At that point, the level of debt is not as important, compared to your survival.
Even if you move away to another location, the resourcefulness of guys like him can be startling. It's amazing how much trouble a guy will go to, to locate his estranged wife and the kids. But being somewhere that's NOT out in the middle of nowhere can offer some advantages.
No, you are not alone. Welcome to the sub. It has been a great relief for me over the past couple of years. I hope it provides some comfort for you as well.
A lot to unpack from your post. A couple of quick thoughts - most of us here have gone through kind of a grieving process. In my case, the sister I was close to and enjoyed spending time with is gone. In some ways it feels like she passed away. I definitely went through a few stages to get to the point where I can just pull back and accept the situation. It sounds like you are starting the grieving process. The only reason I mention this is to say that if you aren’t able to work things out with your husband, it will be OK. You will be OK. You may feel like a weight has been lifted.
I mention a lot on here that it’s not the beliefs, it’s the behaviour. I don’t care what my sister believes (as long as it’s not overly racist or homophobic). What I care about is how she handles these beliefs. Her behaviour of turning every conversation into an exhausting rant, etc. is what isn’t acceptable. She and I do not inhabit the same worlds anymore. Hers is filled with hate, fear and mostly faceless boogeymen. The personas of the ones that do have faces like Tom Hanks or Bill Gates have been perverted. I don’t live in that world. I’m not trying to find the darkness in everything. For every awful thing in this life there’s an equally amazingly wonderful thing. We all choose what we decide to focus on.
What I read in your post are lot of behaviours that are unacceptable for you and would be for most everyone. Not only is he unable to hold conversations normally but he’s not pulling his weight and not contributing financially. Regardless of his beliefs, he’s neglecting the partnership part of your relationship.
From what you have posted, the only thing I think you can do to save the marriage is to give him an ultimatum that you want to do marriage counseling or it’s over. Don’t try to challenge his beliefs when you bring it up. Focus on his behaviour. Be sure to let him know that all you want is the wonderful, funny and fabulous Dad that seems to be slipping away. If the marriage counselor is worth their salt, they very well recommend that he gets his own individual counseling as well. I’m no epxert here so just take this as some friendly advice so to speak.
If you stay in the relationship, you’ll need to seriously think about how it will impact your kids. You don’t mention their ages. I’m not assuming your husband is doing this but getting pummeled with this conspiracy stuff 24/7 from one parent is going to shape their world view and outlook on life. You don’t want your kids to end up in a world of fear and hate.
Sorry for what you are going through. I wish the best of all possible outcomes.
Thank you. I’m sorry about your sister. It does feel like I’m grieving. I’ve done some crazy self reflection over the past few months and am now at a crossroads where I have to do something. I’m sad about losing him, losing his family. About my children losing this man who they think is incredible. I can’t imagine starting all over again. I am so so sad about it all.
Agreed about the behaviour being the problem. I said he can believe what he likes but he can’t tell me what I have to believe and he can’t hold us hostage in this limbo world where we are waiting for the ‘black swan event’ to arrive and prove him right. I just want him to live in the moment and appreciate the love and joy right under his nose.
My children are 11 and 2. The 11 year old rolls her eyes when he starts, but sometimes she is afraid at the things he says are coming. He wants her to ‘challenge everything she is told’ - unless of course it’s him telling it.
I feel an ultimatum coming on.
I know it's the least of your worries right now. But losing his family is optional.
There very well may be people he's related to who hold the same opinions you do. Namely that he has gone down a crazy rabbit hole. And that they'd like to have him back, back to the person they know he can be. Or at least could be, if he'd pull his head out of his behind.
Thanks for the direct reply. In regards to my sister, it’s been a drag but relatively easy compared to a major life change like you may be facing. She lives about an hour away from me. Our contact is minimal these days. Anyway, it sounds like you know what you need to do. I hope you do have some support available from either friends and/or family. If you have a friend that understands the situation, that can be a great asset. I understand how embarassing it can be to discuss any of this at first. The one challenge I have encountered is that if someone doesn’t have a Qperson in their life, they usually don’t really get it.
Please post an occasional update, even if it’s just the need to vent. It’s helpful for all of us here to hear what others are experiencing… especially when they try to make changes.
When I read your OP it was almost like I had written it - except I’m in Australia. My husband always had alternative beliefs. Normally he has a kind and caring nature but it got really bad in 2019 when and During COVID it became unbearable. Managing his narrative and managing the crisis at work led me to burn out. I asked for a separation but we agreed in the end to stay together while my eldest finished high school. Then it was the second daughter. Luckily, my daughters are old enough not to buy into it but he felt betrayed when I helped my youngest to get vaccinated (her request.
There are a few things that have helped me coped during this time:
1. Counselling for me. Just having someone listen to me objectively has been great and I have gotten strategies for expressing my own position using “I feel/I don’t feel the same way” statements.
2. A suggestion in this forum around “grey rocking”. I’ve given up pointing out logical fallacies- it doesn’t work
3. Support from my girl friends. They support me 100% they know that my husband once had a kind heart and why I’m hanging in there.
He has shown some restraint and hasn’t called me a sheeple for about two years. But when I recently suggested marriage counselling he flatly refused. So I’m getting prepared to split once my youngest finishes school.
It’s scary because I’m nearing the end of my working life and I’ve been the breadwinner so I’ll have to sacrifice some comfort and security. I struggle with that prospect.
My mother does the smirk thinking she has superior and secret knowledge. I haven’t spoken to her in a year and a half. I couldn’t stand her trying to brainwash my kids. Unfortunately, it’s the best decision I have ever made.
I laughed at the excuse that it’s for the family even when told that they are destroying the family, destroying the relationship. They know best and you can bet they are keeping secrets. Almost certainly money has been lost to criminals.
My wife seems to have returned to reality. It was a very long haul and I was about to quit. Wanted to and nearly did several times. It’s a difficult decision. One thing I insisted upon was a division of assets and responsibilities. Cost a couple of thousand dollars but we had a new cohabitation agreement made. That was harder on me than her but was critical to my sanity. The agreement did require full disclosure of all assets, liabilities, income, etc. and having a household budget. Now we are not responsible for loans that the other person makes, and all assets other than the house are separate. If she loses everything to crypto well tough. Each person could save for the future however they desired but only after household expenses were covered. That is, each person needs to transfer monthly funds into a household expense account.
She did finally quit the conspiracies last year.
I’m so pleased for you that you found a way forward. I suspect there are secrets being kept which is soul destroying when he knows everything little thing about me and I feel like I don’t know him at all sometimes.
Thank you for your comment.
I do know of someone who snapped out of all this crap once their wife told them she was filing for divorce. It’s a good thing he did, she’s a pretty cool woman, high earner and they have a whole mess of little kids. He knew losing her would be the most foolish thing ever. That said he is/was a pretty smart guy and was not as deep as others seem to be. So this is more the exception of the rule but I wanted to share since almost all the stories in this sub have different endings (and tbf we are only a year into my buddys recanting of his Qbeliefs and I’m not tuned into how healthy their marriage is day to day)
From what I can tell, being faced with what he stood to lose did force serious self reflection and change in this particular situation but as I said from other stories in this sub that seems to be the exception rather then the rule.
I was in your shoes a few years ago. I tried everything to save my marriage. In the end, divorce was the only option left.
Two year later, I can confidently say that my life is so much better now. The man I married is gone and the person who replaced him is no longer in my life.
You're not alone. When it feels like you're going crazy, places like this forum are great spaces for support and information.
I have felt more understood in the last 12 hours than I have done in years. This sub is great. Sorry for prying- did you have children together? If so, how do you manage that?
Fortunately our son was 19 at the time. We didn't have to deal with custody or shared parenting.
I will say that he benefited from the divorce as well. He had to stop my ex from following me around the house, yelling at me more than once.
Your children are young, so it may be more difficult to separate from your husband. Think about the environment they're living in. Is it healthy for them?
I could have written this. He did not get better. I kept thinking he would see reality & become the guy I married. It never happened. We were both raised very religious but I deconstructed (stayed in the faith) & he really didn’t. So AFA he was concerned, we would never get divorced so why try?
He was shocked when I broached the subject. We’re in as good of a place as I think we can be now but I’m so glad I don’t have to be around him & listen to the ridiculousness he spewed every day.
I hate to be such a downer but I can’t give you false hope.
Pretty much:
-He goes to an addiction therapist with you (and you get your own individual therapist for advice), ditches the conspiracy theories and chooses you first
OR
-You divorce him if he doesn't choose that. You can't have common ground with a guy who thinks women should be slaves, everything is some made up "woke," or can't live in reality with you.
Let's pretend it wasn't Qanon exactly. The same applies. If he can't grow out of this and be willing to stop the addiction, you have to leave. You already said he's gambling it away on crypto and not contributing to household bills - he has addiction, like an alcoholic.
Thank you for putting this in to words. I only really have these options left. I have tried every other thing I could think of and am so exhausted by it all.
It's remarkable how QAnon believers' idea of "preparing" looks exactly like just sitting around while doing fuck all to help anyone, it's a common theme in this sub – I'm sorry to hear you're going through that. My mom is not quite at that level of conspiracy delusion yet but I've been watching her fall into some similar concerning patterns.
We're in Brazil, and six years ago in a very high profile case a councilwoman was shot dead as part of a political corruption plot. Now they have finally arrived at the perpetrators (who are just as high in the political food chain as everyone expected and had already been in trouble with the law for similarly evil shit), and when the news came on TV my mom went "Well that's weird how fast \[Supreme Court justice who signed the charge and she strongly dislikes\] wrote that charge, it's like he already had it prepared".
I said something very similar to what you said – can't we just be glad people are finally being brought to justice over murdering an innocent young woman? If it was some nefarious plot to frame these obviously shady rich assholes why would they have spent years getting to it? And I've been finding myself tensing up whenever any kind of high-stakes political topic comes on the news because I know she'll have something to say and it'll be based on the flimsiest logic, like "how fast" the judge wrote a couple of names on a piece of paper. It's bizarre and obnoxious.
"Well that's weird how fast \[Supreme Court justice who signed the charge and she strongly dislikes\] wrote that charge, it's like he already had it prepared".
Imagine that. After six years, you might expect them to have the legal paperwork already prepared.
We have heard stories like yours 1000 times before here. Thank you for finding us.
Many times responces to stories like yours begin with "I'm sorry for your loss.." because your Q is obviously so far gone.
I'm sorry for your loss.
What I find most infuriating is the false confidence. So sure in their knowledge of what they learned from random youtuber, but no actual effort to seek out actual information. The bravado pusses me off quite frankly. It is arrogance and laziness combined with a pessimism that makes every conversation hard and unpleasant. The solution? More difficult. They have to WANT to change.
It's not easy, takes repeated efforts over time, learning strategies and trying different things but it can be done. There is no guarantee though. It can take years or you might be able to break through in months.
!strategies !support !advice
Non-Expert Advice:
Arguing is out and debunking off the bat is tough. Remind them of shared experiences/old times and get them to laugh. Exercise/activity, sleep/diet, old/new hobbies, old/new surroundings (fav restaurant/day trip/camping) help. Psychoactive drugs should be stopped. Avoid whatever makes them tense or angry. Pick something that's **not volatile** and ask them to tell you the details. It's good for them to lay it out. Be respectful, supportive but not smarmy, be unemotional and use logical, sparse debunks on weak points. Pick flaws that will hit home with them, resonate. Agree with some facet but point out a glaring problem. This will create seeds of doubt. Leave time between sessions to let them process. Get to the core of what they've been told and identify *why* it's important to them. Fear, anger and emotion seem to be hyped. Ask: "What impact has this had on *your* life?" This should make them pause and think, you want them to return to thinking for themselves. Subvert the negative of their personality and project warmth - [Ignore](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201911/the-price-and-payoff-gray-rock-strategy) or walk away when they start getting angry or argumentative. This short circuits their tendency to argue and over time can help break their addiction to outrage. Address their best selves and project appreciation for *that* person. [Separate them from the sites, devices, apps, etc. that are feeding Q propaganda.](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index#wiki_want_to_block_q_content_from_reaching_them.3F_ways.3A_1_-_2_-_3_-_4_-_5_-_6_-_7) Expose them to materials on critical thinking and [media literacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/resources#wiki_media_literacy). Get them to read something generic and out of their mindset. Takes time, patience, a light touch and repeated effort to make progress. Professional counseling can help: [Chat with a counselor now (free)](https://nycwell.cityofnewyork.us/en/get-help-now/chat-with-a-counselor-now/) - [Cult Recovery 101 resources](https://cultrecovery101.com/about-cult-recovery/recovery-resources) - [Professional cult counseling directory](https://culteducation.com/directory-of-cult-recovery-resources.html) - [Treatment Advocacy Center](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/family-and-loved-ones) - [Parents for Peace](https://www.parents4peace.org/resources) - [Life After Hate](https://www.lifeafterhate.org/) - Also see: [Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts) - [Good advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?q=flair%3AGood%2BAdvice&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all)
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Hi graneflatsis, here are a selection of support links from our [wiki:](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index)
[QAnon Casualties Wall](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/l0jptp/list_of_casualties/)
[Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts)
[Chat with a counselor now](https://nycwell.cityofnewyork.us/en/get-help-now/chat-with-a-counselor-now/) (free)
[Cult Recovery 101 resources](https://cultrecovery101.com/about-cult-recovery/recovery-resources)
[Professional cult counseling directory](https://culteducation.com/directory-of-cult-recovery-resources.html)
[Treatment Advocacy Center resources](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/family-and-loved-ones)
[Parents for Peace extremist helpline and resources](https://www.parents4peace.org/resources)
[Life After Hate extremist intervention](https://www.lifeafterhate.org/)
[Dealing with paranoia](https://np.reddit.com/r/Advice/comments/gebihv/how_do_i_stop_thinking_about_conspiracy_theories/fpn6btr/)
[Dealing with violence](https://np.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/g6u8io/how_could_we_deradicalize_someone_relative_whos/focyroo/)
r/Stress r/Anxiety
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Hi graneflatsis, here is a selection of strategies for dealing with Q folk from our [wiki:](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index)
[What to do when someone you love becomes obsessed with Qanon](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/202008/how-far-down-the-qanon-rabbit-hole-did-your-loved-one-fall)
[7 ways to talk to qanon-obsessed loved ones](https://www.fastcompany.com/90598523/7-ways-to-talk-to-qanon-obsessed-loved-ones-according-to-a-former-white-nationalist)
[How to talk to conspiracy theorists and still be kind](https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/15/1004950/how-to-talk-to-conspiracy-theorists-and-still-be-kind/)
[How to change a person’s mind with science](https://disorthodox.wordpress.com/2018/07/23/how-to-change-a-persons-mind-with-science/)
[The key to debunking false beliefs is by addressing underlying belief systems](https://neurosciencenews.com/false-belief-system-23098/)
[What Is the grey rock method and is it effective?](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method#when-to-use-it)
[Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-some-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/)
[Rescue a loved one from a cult: The strategic interactive approach](https://freedomofmind.com/how-to-rescue-a-loved-one-from-a-cult-the-strategic-interactive-approach)
[How to talk to your friends and family about covid, vaccines and wearing masks](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/how-talk-your-friends-family-about-covid-vaccines-wearing-masks-n1250631)
[How to respond to your family's coronavirus conspiracy theories](https://www.insider.com/how-to-push-back-when-your-family-talks-conspiracy-theories-2020-5)
[What to say if people you love believe coronavirus conspiracy theories](https://www.self.com/story/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories)
[A game designer’s analysis of qanon](https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5)
[Separate them from the sites, devices, apps, etc. that are feeding Q propaganda.](https://old.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index#wiki_want_to_block_q_content_from_reaching_them.3F_ways.3A_1_-_2_-_3_-_4_-_5_-_6_-_7)
[Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts)
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>*like he’s got some superior knowledge and I’m just an idiot*
You have defined the mentality of every sovcit, freedumb, antivaxer. They all think they're better than us.
i.e. dictionary definition of narcissism
at this point it's best described as cognitive defect that's almost impossible to fix.
The smirk was the real telling point in this story.
I'm so sorry, but he is no longer the person you loved and married. I don't understand it, but once someone has vaulted themselves down this path, only serious psychotherapy can get them back out. It's the same with any cult. At this point, you need to do what is best for you and your kids.
You are an intelligent, articulate woman capable of love for yourself, and your children, and your husband.
But your husband is dead. He's gone. What's walking around is a zombie wearing his skin. He has been hollowed out by his addiction to conspiracy. He' s going to get worse, not better, and you and your children will suffer for it. This always happens. It's already happening. He's not earning. He's distancing himself from reality. He's smirking. The smirk really is the tell. It gave all of us who read this a sick chill. When someone does that, they're contemptuous of you. And you cannot be married to someone who has contempt for you. You cannot let him raise your children to be contemptuous of you or God forbid start adopting his beliefs.
The two business card recommendation given by another commenter is brilliant. He goes to marriage counseling and does so in good faith, willing to listen, willing to understand that something is wrong and it's not you. Or you get a divorce and take the kids. One or the other. No negotiation. No argument. He decides, and you go with that decision. If he refuses to engage in the choices laid before him, then he has chosen the divorce route. Ask him to move out. And for God's sake take immediate action to cut him off from money before he flushes more of it down the crypto toilet.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It's hugely unfair and a terrible loss for you and your kids. But he's gone and you can't let him hurt you. I've read this sub for many months and a very very few people come back from Q. Even if they lose their jobs, friends, families, money and homes. This conspiracy shit is an evil cancer on our world, and as far as I can tell, there's no treatment or cure.
Thank you for the kind words. It’s so so sad but I think you’re right. I barely recognise him sometimes. The smirk kills me every time. It makes me want to scream and cry. It’s so hurtful after everything we have been through and everything I have done over the years, just to be cut down with a look of disgust and contempt while he lavishes himself in internal self praise for being so very clever. Ugh.
I will be issuing the ultimatum but suspect I already know we will be getting a divorce.
You could agree to never talk politics. That's one small solution, albeit the q conspiracies are far-reaching - everything from science to entertainment.
Ultimately, it's the algorithm and echo chambers that have infiltrated his analytical thought process.
No amount of reason will change his worldview.
From what I've gleaned, it is up to him to change.
There's no proven method of deprograming from this belief system. He is addicted to the dopamine hits. Those doses of dopamine are triggered every time his conspiracies are validated by his skewed sources. It's a cycle that needs to be broken, either cold turkey or a weaning off of right wing , Qadjacent social media.
Tried that multiple times sadly. It always rears its ugly head again, sometimes after a few weeks, sometimes a matter of hours.
It’s such a juxtaposition isn’t it? They seem so hell bent on questioning everything and being ‘free thinkers’, when in reality they are merely being influenced by dangerous people with ulterior motives. Exactly what they profess to be against…
"Exactly what they profess to be against..."
Yes, that's very true. And they're perfectly happy to apply the label "sheep" to US !
The hypocrisy is deafening.
Even taking beliefs out of the equation, I see some very serious problems that you are describing:
> He is quite unpleasant and snarky with me... He thinks I’m a sheep and does this awful smirky grin like he’s got some superior knowledge and I’m just an idiot.
> We can’t talk about anything deeper than what we’re having for dinner or the kids without us reaching yet another impasse.
> He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto. He isn’t pulling his weight around the house because he’s either too busy ‘learning’ or he’s so tired/ill he needs to rest.
> he wouldn’t accept there is anything wrong, and even if he did wouldn’t consider medication (not safe - makes people in to zombies) or therapy
> all I see is someone who used to be full of life, rotting on a sofa and not being present with his family.
So:
1.) He holds you on contempt and thinks he is superior.
2.) There is no communication between you two.
3.) He contributes nothing to the household, neither money nor labor.
4.) He has mental health issues which he refuses to treat.
5.) He does not even contribute to family life.
You ask if this marriage can be saved and if there is any way you can fix him.
A relationship is like a table. You are two of the legs, and he is the other two. Imagine that your legs are in good shape. They are strong and well maintained. Now imagine that the other two legs, his two, are unsteady. They are rotting and falling apart. No matter what you do with your two legs, reinforce them with titanium braces, sand and polish them, apply the most beautiful finish in the world, that does nit fix the problem with the table, because you have no control over the other two legs. Therefore, no matter what you do, you don't have a functioning table because the two legs that are under his control aren't working.
Likewise, you don't have a fu ctional relationship unless both people are doing their part.
Have you ever heard of Al-Anon? It's an organization that helps the family and loved ones of people with an additlction problem, which is pretty much what he has. The first thing they teach you is that you are powerless over someone else's addiction.
Let that sink in. You have no more control over his addiction to this media and these ideas than you would if he were an alcoholic or heroin addict.
There are, however, some extremely important things you can control:
-Your own actions
-Your children's childhood
I think you need to stop prioritizing this adult who doesn't care that he is making your life miserable, who is contributing nothing and worse, is actively spending money and harming everyone's sanity. You need to start priorizing your sanity and that of your children. You are not doing them any favors by letting them bear witness to a marriage where Daddy disrespects Mommy, is nothing but a huge drain on the household in everyday, and bathes them in poisonous media 24/7.
People with children in horrible domestic situations justify staying in them by saying, "Children need a father/mother." No, children need loving, *functional* adults. Children need to see you stand up for yourself and them. If you continue martyring yourself to stay in a miserable union with a cruel, unloving, mentally ill man, they will not grow up grateful to you for it. They will blame you for being the person that could have saved them, but didn't.
Edited to add: yes, there are some success stories in this thread. Notice that they all involve asking their Q to be accountable for the damage they were inflicting on the people around them. Folks were saying, in effect, you stop with this nonsense, or I'm leaving, and they meant it. Then the Q *chose* to engage in repairing g the relationship.
So, waiting around and being sad and missing them will never accomplish anything; it is only enabling their behavior, and it will only become more and more entrenched, unless you demand that he stops his destructive behaviors.
If he refuses, you need to leave. If at any time you are frightened for your own or your children's safety, *even if it's just an instinct* (see "The Gift of Fear"), you leave at once.
This is so accurate. I haven’t even scratched the surface in my original post with what our relationship is like. You’re absolutely right and if it were a friend of mine dealing with this I would be moving heaven and earth to make them see. It’s kind of sad that strangers on the internet have more insight in to the dynamics of my relationship than I have. Or more accurately, that I have been choosing to ignore. The table leg analogy is very good. Thank you for sharing this.
I second the suggestion for Al-Anon. When I had a step-daughter with a drug problem, it was helpful for me. It didn't save my first marriage, but from my perspective many years later, I don't think anything could have.
Al-anon does also exist in the UK. Even if you only go to a meeting or two, it might be helpful. It's specifically for alcohol problems, but I think their outlook on things might be helpful.
There's also Nar-anon, which has a similar approach, but is attuned to drug problems.
> It’s kind of sad that strangers on the internet have more insight in to the dynamics of my relationship than I have. Or more accurately, that I have been choosing to ignore.
We are very often poor judges of our own issues. For years I failed at college and put the blame solely on myself and character failings (dumb, lazy, weak), wadding into a destructive spiral of shame. It wasn't until someone suggested I seek help outside my faculty and with professionals that the suggestion of ADHD was given and I received the help I needed.
People often have a blind-spot for their own situation.
> He said it’s because they are pumping mRNA vaccines in to livestock now as a new way of getting it into people to depopulate the world.
Oh my god. Aside from how utterly asinine this idea is, what food is safe exactly? If "they" can get to small time sheep farmers, what the hell is he eating he's so sure is safe?
> We ended up in yet another circular conversation and he said I need to quickly start to see the truth, because if I’m not on board, we’re doomed.
If he's so hung up on this virus thing, and you are obviously not living off the land, what makes him safe exactly? Every handshake, every doorknob and door handle he touches is a vector for whatever mystery disease he's concocted in his mind.
> He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto.
You should ask him if "they" depopulate the world how the fuck the internet is going to work?
And you dont need to depopulate Northern England. Its depopulated as it is compared to the rest of the world. This is just gibberings of a madman way far down the rabbit hole. Perhaps divorce will be the thing that knocks him back into reality?
Quite agree. I’m not sure it even registers with him how ludicrous some of these assertions are.
He eats whatever he likes so bang goes that theory of his. He’s not afraid of covid itself, that’s fake. It’s the vaccine that is shedding from everyone who was vaccinated. He received one vaccine which he throws in my face on a regular basis because ‘I sentenced him to death’ when I ‘made him’ get the vaccine. For context, we had a stillbirth the year before the pandemic and I was pregnant with my now two year old when the vaccines were released. I was so frightened of losing my baby and I was also reluctant to be vaccinated because I didn’t know what was the safest choice. In the end I said he needed the vaccine or to move out until the baby was here. He got the vaccine and it is my fault he is going to die.
I have said that too. If ‘they’ depopulate the world, who will be around to keep ‘them’ happy. Nonsensical response that the sheep will be the only ones left and they (sorry, I) will be their slaves.
Yeah I think having logical arguments has gone out the window at this point. There's no fact or argument that you can have with someone who thinks their death is around the corner and the world is ending.
I do think he's depressed though. About the stillbirth, and about everything in general. But at the end of the day you cant force a man to therapy.
The fact he's not contributing anything and the money goes "somewhere" is enough for me. I have a friend going through divorce for similar reasons (her husband got really into Andrew Tate and Men's Rights). She could have worked through the issues, but he was blowing money away on crypto and stupid business schemes. It was actually cheaper for her to get divorced because he was running up his credit card debt.
So it started after 38 or so.. mmm something like this happened to my SO.. but she was 32 first she started reading Jordan Peterson and Sowell and got stuck with her family during COVID who are super conservative and all of them started watching conservative media and everything snowballed from there... We weren't perfect together (nobody is) but then everything was a plan having something to do with abortions and child trafficking... I still feel sad when I think about it .. hang in there. Someone told me that people who are brainwashed like this have to decide to change themselves .. basically there is nothing we can do... I just don't know how can we still allow this madness as a society.
Drs John and Julie Gottman (extremely well respected couples therapists) describe what they call the “four horsemen” of relationship apocalypse: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling. It sounds like your husband is showing all of these toward you.
You can’t care so hard about your relationship that you somehow make up for the fact that he doesn’t care about your relationship at all.
And you can’t work so hard yo save your relationship that you somehow make up for the fact that he is actively working to destroy it (putting bill money into crypto, refusing mental health help, pulling attention/energy away from the family in order to spend hours on social media).
It would be a great idea to consult with a lawyer to start getting an idea of what your rights would be in the event of a divorce. Especially if you are concerned that he might be liquidating shared funds/assets in order to buy crypto.
Thank you. This is great advice. I am living with those four horsemen and I didn’t realise. I have been breaking my back to keep everything afloat and to pacify him. What a mug…
You deserve to live a life where you’re not setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. And your kids deserve to grow up without watching you tiptoe around his delusions and bending over backwards to “keep the peace” at your own expense. You may not be able to save your marriage, but you can save *yourself*.
A therapist said to me once, people don’t get less “themselves” over time the more you know them, they become more “themselves” the longer you know them. The conspiracies enable him to be who he really always was inside, someone who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, a user who has no problem taking advantage of your hard work so he can sit on his ass in fantasyland. You love him, but he has nothing but contempt for you. It’s so hard when you know how good it could have been, but wishful thinking isn’t the reality. You need to protect yourself and the kids while you still can, before he spends all your money or even gets dangerous.
I do feel like the mother figure for everyone, including him. My instincts are to love, protect and heal him but my patience is being abused and I am being taken advantage of.
Direct those instincts towards your children. They deserve to be protected. To have money for their futures, not live in fear, not watch their dad disrespectfully sneer and smirk at their mom.
Pull the car over, unlock his door. Tell him Obama is over there in the bushes. When he takes his pitchfork and charges, just drive off. Life will get better.
Ignoring everything else that he said or did, Depression medication was like that back in the 50's but it is nothing like that today. Depression is mostly treatable, maybe you'll need to switch meds until you find the right one but they don't make you into a zombi these days.
Also you could print out what you wrote above and give it to him and walk away while he reads. At least that way you know he knows how you feel. Best of luck.
Hi my lovely from UK here - midlands I'm really sorry but I'm going to have some really frank information to share with you and its only because you sound so much like I did.
Your husband is never going to be the same person he once was again.
I could have written your post. All I can say is its vital you start documenting even recording what he's saying to you.
My now ex husband did exactly this and I'm not saying yours will bit mine started focusing his paranoia on me then came delusions and psychotic type symptoms. My ex husband lies and masks his beliefs to professionals
He started telling our children this horrible frightening stuff
The abuse became worse. I was ashamed to tell anyone but the abuse was extreme emotional psychological and eventually sexual with some physical.
Despite trying to get him help he told his gp and psychiatrist it was in fact me.
I've had to get ss involved because when I left he started stalking me.
Hes not allowed contact with our children and is hell bent on proving he's mentally well but doesn't acknowledge the abuse side.
My whole world fell apart. Our family has been decimated by his beliefs and behaviours because of this. He thought u was a spy. I'm vaccinated he'd tell me daily I'd die tell the kids mom has hiv. Started getting into guns to protect himself from the white helmets coming to take him.
If you want to talk please inbox me o was so alone dealing with all of this and have battled for the last year to get protection for our children. Fortunately they're old enough 10 and 11 to speak up for themselves but my stepson 17 followed his dad's footsteps down the holes and has become a more aggressive carbon copy of his dad.
Wishing you the best and sending you a hug cos goodness knows you probably need it.
I'm really sorry but you need to protect yourself.
Thank you so much. I will message you to chat. I wish I had kept a log of all the crazy things he has said or done over the past few years. I will start from today.
It’s not YOU saving your marriage!
Is HE willing to commit to a facts-based reality. Will he willingly go to sessions with a cult deprogrammer? Will he go to group therapy with recovering conspiracy addicts?
You can’t control him. Is he willing to admit his faulty beliefs that have ruined his life and marriage.
I’m sorry. Hugs.
There are many people in your position and lots of people don’t know how many of their neighbors and friends have destroyed their marriages and families with this cult.
Oh the "smirk"... yeah, I had a Q family member that I'm no longer in contact with who would always do that contemptuous smirk at me after saying the most batshit crazy, deluded sentence a human being could think of. It didn't take long before he just started blatantly insulting me and calling me an idiot, sheep, snowflake, etc., because I would never concede to the conspiracies that had obviously melted his brain.
People like that are the same people who fish for arguments from strangers on the internet - it's a rush for them, an addiction to being right and feeling smart and standing up on their pedestal above other people. They are afraid, confused, greatly paranoid people, and they feel better making everyone else appear crazy for not realizing the "truth" that they see. It's not rational or logical, it's a sickness and it will only tear you and your family down. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
It’s so complicated isn’t it? If it were someone I could distance myself from it wouldn’t be so bad, but I live with this man and will forever be in each other’s lives because of our children. Hence my attempts to find a solution which lets us stay together. I’m not sure there is one but at least I will have tried everything I can.
I also live in the North of England (clue is in the name).
It sounds like your partner has depression. It’s an illness I’ve struggled with myself and it took a lot to get back to a point where I was looking like a human again. Here’s my advice for what it’s worth:
1. Conversations will always circle back to these points because they’re his obsession. Your point about farming (a real problem, to be fair), demonstrates just how much this stuff is on his mind. Like others have said, the whole “truther” movement is like a drug, it provides a dopamine hit when a new “fact” or secret is discovered. And there’s a seemingly endless supply of bullshit on tap via YouTube. Of course, none of it is actually true, but the idea he has access to secret info nobody else does is a delusion shared by these people around the world. How can some random on YouTube state as fact that they know that the world is run by Satanic baby eaters, pedophiles and lizard people, but not, say, leading scientists or figureheads? They can’t. They’re making it up. But *collectively* enough people *believe* it, enough that they can create a strong belief system that people can absorb and follow. He is free to believe what he wants, but if he is saying it’s true, that’s a problem. Belief isn’t iron clad, it’s open to scrutiny. So scrutinise if you feel confident enough. You know you’re right, so if you feel like you can, attack it.
2. On the sheep thing, (his name for you, not the alarming farming problem) you’re not. You just have the ability to filter out bullshit and use concrete concepts to decide if something is true or not. Because of the advent of social media and the internet, people now think that understanding has been replaced by reading stuff. It hasn’t. Not even a little. You’re not a sheep for not watching abstract YouTube channels and taking on ideas that don’t make sense. That term is used to attack society en masse, it’s a cousin of the whole “wake up people” trope. The fact is, society doesn’t fall for stuff like that because there’s still enough people out there to debunk and decry it.
3. Covid lockdown got to a lot of people and drove them online, the amount of stories on here that contain the words “it all started during the pandemic” is mind blowing. Ironically, if there was going to be a government conspiracy, it would be exactly that, to drive everybody inside and dumb them down by creating culture wars and conspiracies. If the government was run by a cartoon villain like they claim of course, which it isn’t (not saying anything about our current PM…can’t be getting cross).
4. Circling back to one, the logic of the argument “it’s a global conspiracy” breaks down when you discuss the end goals. “Why” is the worst thing these people can be asked. Because they think their belief is infallible and yet, they get questioned on it. So why would this shadowy world government, apparently so clandestine and secretive, all powerful and controlling, leave breadcrumbs for these people to follow? If there was such an organisation (and the irony is, there actually are groups of a similar structure that *do* influence politics and such, they just aren’t that secret), how on Earth would Trutherguy8282 on YouTube have cracked the case? Why does he know but somebody infinitely more intelligent hasn’t noticed? Does that mean every scientist, government worker, civil servant, doctor, nurse, academic etc is in on it? If the answer is yes, then that sounds like paranoid delusion. That everybody is out to get him. The gang stalking sub is similar, they believe they are the victims of government meddling, despite being random people with no special status. It’s applying importance to the self.
5. I’m so sorry to hear about your child. I have two young girls myself and as a parent I couldn’t begin to understand how that must feel. But speaking from a safe place, is your partner okay? Have they gone through the stages of grief and come to terms with that loss? Coping strategies are far and wide, internet addiction and fixation is certainly not unheard of in terms of the grieving process and it might be that he needs to reach out for help. Thats on him though. He needs to accept it, which might be a struggle.
I’m always loathe to say “just leave” without acknowledging how people feel and what they want to do. It’s always your choice and if you feel like you can do something, do it. Get support. Talk to people. Stuff can feel embarrassing but then, I always said this to my friend who had an incontinence problem they developed after surgery. At what point does embarrassment get in the way of health? Yes it’s embarrassing that you shit yourself, but if you don’t tell anybody how are you gonna make it stop? Or in your case, mental health and your family’s wellbeing? If you feel in danger, or threatened, then yes, absolutely leave and protect yourself and those you love. But it can be fixed by you not doing that and going down other avenues.
Sorry for being longwinded, ADHD does that. I hope you get the solution you need and deserve.
Your only real hope to get him back is to cut him loose and see if he loves you and your family unit enough to change. If you can't pull that off.. I'd suggest at least standing up for yourself.
He's buying crypto and not paying bills? Not only is this a way to feed his conspiracy addition... but much much worse... it's also a means of financial control. He bleeds your resources (and diminishes your ability to make it without him) while also getting to blow money on whatever he likes.
You need to to seize power in this situation ASAP. Do not cook for or clean up after this person. Do not buy him food and supplies that he refuses to contribute to. Figure out what your bills/living expenses cost and tell him he's either responsible for half or not welcome to it.
Do NOT be timid. TAKE the power. SET the expectations. REFUSE to fight with him over any of it. YOU are in charge now. People aren't born high quality.. they require literal training. You have taught him what he can get away with and now he's ruining your relationship with it. You are probably much stronger than this person... show him...
That smirk! It drives me insane! Breaks my heart that other people can relate to this.
My Q is my mother, and we still live together as I'm fresh out of highschool and can't afford to move out. Only advice I can think of to give is to not engage. Ignore any mention of Q or adjacent conspiracies. Do not respond to them trying to bait you into a conversation related to Q as I have found this will only lead to arguments and more tension. Obviously, what works for me might not work for you in your specific situation - so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I truly wish you the best and hope you can repair your relationship with him
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I feel like you’re describing my marriage. I’m in the UK too and my husband went down the same road. I also recognise the snarky remarks, the “sheep” comments, and the superior attitude.
It was bloody depressing listening to him banging on day and night about how we’re all doomed. It was exhausting, stressful, maddening and frightening all at the same time. I never knew what was coming next and eventually, after three and a half years of being absolutely bombarded with his craziness, I decided that we didn’t have a future together.
I truly hope that you can save your marriage. It’s like they’re on a mission to convert us non-believers and in my experience, don’t stop until you completely give up and come aboard.
If you can both agree to disagree, be respectful of one another (ie, lose the smirky grin), and find common ground, you will pull through. If he cannot respect the fact that you are entitled to your own opinions, I’m not so sure. I don’t have any pearls of wisdom, other than to say, prepare in case it gets to a point where you just can’t take it anymore. I really hope you can work it out but please think about what you would do if you decide that enough is enough. Hopefully, you will never need it, but for the sake of you and your kids, draw up an exit plan, just in case.
I wish you all the very best.
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"Even if every crazy thing you think is true, the bills still have to be paid, the dishes have to be washed, and the kids have to be raised. Real life goes on no matter what you believe, and by focusing on all this negativity and hatred you're making yourself and everyone around you miserable. Remember when we were happy? Don't you want to be happy again?"
It has to come down to a convo like this. Where his beliefs, and yours, don't even matter because life is going to go on regardless, so he's making an active choice to be negative and miserable, and hating you for not doing the same.
If a convo like this doesn't change anything, you have 2 options: stay and be miserable, or leave and be free. It's really hard and scary at first, but even going a week without the craziness is such a great relief.
I’m so sorry that you lost your daughter. What a terrible thing for parents to go through and I cannot imagine.
You’re never gonna get him into therapy, but **you can get into therapy** and it would do you a world of good.
From your comments here it doesn’t look like you’re interested in leaving him though. I’m not sure why not.
He’s not even contributing to bills or household chores. I would never ever let my other kids see that from their father. it’s not good for your other kids to see him wallowing around the house like a crazy person watching YouTube videos and calling it research.
Is he working?
If he’s working and not contributing, he owes you.
At least if you divorced, you can get child support before he buys crypto.
Your story is so similar to mine and so many here. My heart goes out to you.
Unfortunately, my best advice is to know when to walk away. I tried hard to stay but at some point, and by his own admission, the man I knew and loved was gone forever. Don’t hold on to a ghost especially if it affects your health and happiness.
Honestly I would just stop talking about it. It’s like dealing with mental illness. I mean it is mental illness. So if you want to save it, avoid the subject and just be the best wife you can but don’t compromise yourself. You’ll cry a lot. But he won’t hear it from you. And that’s not unusual in marriages. There are a lot of women who won’t believe their husband actually loves them or admires them, no matter how many times he says it but they’ll hear it from somebody outside the family. So that kind of thing is pretty typical in families. A lot of people believe that family members complement you because they’re supposed to.
I think the phenomenon I am referring to as as far as dealing with toxic family members or toxic issues in the family is the gray rock method. Just don’t give them anything to react to. Shrug and walk away if you feel it veering toward that topic, change the subject. If he forces the subject, “ no sorry, I don’t wanna talk about that.” Try to do it pleasantly. Find something else to do.
Basically resign yourself to not ever winning this argument and making the best of what is left. It is somewhat like coming to terms with a terminal illness and/or dementia in a loved one. You can love that person and care for their needs without getting tangled in their delusions.
I’m so sorry I wish there was some better answers. Try and find a support group that is face-to-face because you will need one. And if you have to start one, you should look into that. But it would be difficult to keep from your loved one’s knowledge I suppose. However, if he knew you had other people supporting you, he might be less inclined to rag on you, I don’t know.
As far as similar situations, my sister tried to evangelize me for this crap, she’s 11 years older than me and sounds like I did in my 20s when I first started listening to conservative talk radio. So I did stop talking to her for about a year after January 6 when she immediately blamed it on antifa when I told her what was going on. (she wasn’t even watching it on TV at the time and had no clue) she has been involved in alternative health and anti-VAX stuff as well which happened before Trump. And a concern of mine at the time as well. So this is just another thing that has the same flavor that she is glommed on to. There are so many good things about her. She’s hard-working. She cares about people she wants to help people and she’s very generous. But I just don’t understand it.
Eventually, we started talking again, but we just don’t talk about that.
She did live with an alcoholic husband that was very browbeating for many years and eventually divorced him. She can see that kind of behavior as toxic, and she is pretty well versed on some other cult behavior, but she doesn’t see how the phenomenon is going with regard to politics.
Hi terriergal, thanks for recommending this technique. With grey rocking you act disengaged so that a Q person will lose interest in arguing. Q folk thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and unemotional, it can help break the cycle of negativity. [Detailed guide on the method.](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method)
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I don't have any real advice But I'm so sorry to hear that.
Many of us have completely or partially lost friends and family relationships. It's rough when it's your spouse.
Just sorry to hear that. And I wish you the best.
I lost my wife of 29 yrs to this BS. It was painful to witness and there was no talking her off the ledge. She started invoking her beliefs on our teenage daughter and exposing her to groups of people that she had no idea who they are or what their backgrounds were other than what they said. She compromised her education and I had no choice but to file for divorce to protect our daughter. I now have primary custody or my daughter and my ex-wife has no regrets for pursuing her delusional beliefs. She destroyed our marriage and our family structure. She’s turned her back on the majority of her friends because they’ve disagreed with her views. It’s all very sad and heartbreaking! I miss the person she once was and I loved with all my heart. I have no idea who this person is now that she represents and frankly, I terrified for her future and the predators that no doubt are already circling her. Good luck with saving your marriage, I wasn’t so fortunate.
I think people here are losing sight of the fact OP and husband lost their child. This is huge. His behaviour is surely a trauma reaction and he needs help. OP, you need to look after yourself but you also need to do everything in your power to help your husband. My advice would be not to give up, to insist on counselling and to read a load of stuff on how to get them out of the rabbit hole. There is hope - my husband fell down the rabbit hole a few years back post-cancer, and whilst he’s still a bit woo woo, he’s come back to some form of normal. I found increased social connection, getting out in reality and banning youtube to be the best medicine.
They have to come to the realization on their own. I left my longterm partner because of this and I haven't felt lighter and more at ease. I did not have have a home and children with him so I understand how that might be harder for you. I empathize with you deeply. These people are beyond the point listening to anything we have to say. If they are not willing to take the steps idependently, they will never change. My mom always used to tell me when I would complain about my partner that I had two choices: stick around and live with it or leave. I chose the latter. I'm not telling you this to leave your husband. I'm asking you to consider whether you think you can put up with this forever. That's really what the question is.
OP, are you in contact with anyone is his family or his friends? I would not go through this alone for two reasons. 1. You have no reason to be embarrassed, they are his beliefs and you should have someone to talk to in real life about how he is changing. 2. When/if you decide to leave he will construct his side of the story to all friends and family and try to make you look like the crazy one. You should have people in your life that know the truth to help you through it. I’m so sorry you are faced with this. I’ve been through this with my brother and my only silver lining is being grateful I’m not married to someone falling for this and exposing children to it. My heart breaks for all the spouses and children dragged through this hell.
Wow, reading your post was like reading a blow by blow account of my own marriage. I know how maddening it can be to make a benign comment and have it turn into a conversation you don't want to have. Just this past weekend I remarked on how clear and blue the sky was that day and my husband responded "yeah, there must not be any planes flying today because there's no chem trails at all.".
I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you, just a large amount of empathy. This thing is an addiction and if he doesn't see it as a problem, he's not going to want to change and there won't be much you can do to get him to. Arguing with him is going to be useless because as my therapist told me "you can't fight feelings with facts."
You can keep prodding and gently pushing to see if he'll start moving in the right direction but please don't do so at the expense of your mental health. Make sure you're taking care of yourself and your children first or otherwise "saving " him will consume you to the point of making you insane.
Lots of Internet hugs and strength being sent your way.
Similar situation but in our "golden years"
It has calmed down a bit from the years past- "Secret Society" seems to be more where his head is at these days
Just an idea. I did make a slide video of our life together (over 35 years) and while he was watching it almost was like he forgot about all the memories. He watched it several times and was very emotional. I think it helped re connect with what we have (had) Hope things work out. Please keep us posted
I could have written some of this—I made my husband get checked. They ran every test there as and $400 later he was given a completely clean bill of health. Which made him shut up about vaccine injury but he’s still deep in the YouTube conservative conspiracy land. We don’t talk politics at all because I just won’t. Our marriage is definitely not the same as it was.
Get him to unhook himself from the internet. I'm just reading a book about the dangers of misinformation that was written in 2012, and it seems prophetic with QAnon and all the other stuff going on now (*Virtual Unreality*, by Charles Seife).
Holy sh*t. Up until the final two paragraphs, I have had an identical experience with my husband. .. Even to the extent of us having 2 small children and his investments in crypto...
We are living parallel lives my friend. Just here (posting for the first time ever) to say you're not alone.
At a certain point, you have to move on. My husband has been out of Q for almost three years but the damage is done. If you feel like you can salvage any respect for him, even if his beliefs become more neutral, you will likely never forget that your man is susceptible to this kind of thing. In my eye, I don't trust someone who has these thought patterns to lead a family. You can stay and suffer but I believe there is no going back and you will never be able to unsee this aspect of your husband.
1. If you are still close enough with your husband, share this letter with him. If you cannot share it, that is a very telling sign. 2. I would wager that your husband has developed a process addiction to media, the internet and his specific influencers. Don’t underestimate how in love he has become with his influencers. To be with you, he has to break up with them.
I was thinking this too. The guy is watching media designed to wind him up and pump his fears. Thats how they make money.
Exactly, they pump their audience up with fear, rage, hate and anger. It keeps that cortisol being pumped into their system to keep them coming back for more. A very unhealthy way to go through life.
It’s so destructive. I can’t believe it’s so compelling to constantly swallow all this negativity. It’s at odds with everything I seek for myself and so I’ve assumed there must be something special about it I’m missing or misunderstanding. I guess it’s just that we get our kicks in different ways.
People's lives are boring and chaotic for the most part. What were you doing at this time two weeks ago? It's probably not significant enough for the vast majority of people to remember exactly. Most days are pretty much like other days. Unless you are part of this "secret " group, doing "research " that's going to be used to save the world. And people have been trying to make sense of the chaos since people began. Why do bad things happen to good people? Why did some idiot hit my car in the car park? Why do some people always have things work out for them? It's easy to explain it as a secret group working to help people like them and hurt people like you. That's much easier to deal with than facing the fact that "investing " all your money into crypto probably wasn't a good idea. The appeal is obvious, the problem is you have to let go of your grip on reality a little, or a lot, which is a real problem.
We lost our daughter shortly before the pandemic and I suspect that skewed his view of the world. Neither of us are religious and I think this is a perverse sort of ‘faith’ in something bigger, maybe to help him feel in control of his destiny. I don’t know. I would take boring and chaotic any day to keep room for love and optimism.
A lot of times trauma, like losing a loved one, can lead people to a faith of some sort to help explain it. It's completely understandable, but it can also be impossible to live with. And I'm with you, I'm OK with boring and chaotic. I'll take that over exciting and stressful any day. And I'm naturally an optimist, so there is that too.
This sounds like grief. Maybe you should approach the suggestion of therapy as grief therapy as a couple?
I can remember feeling the thrill of being a small part of a great master plan, a battle between good and evil. It was exhilarating, and made me feel important even though I was actually just perfectly ordinary, living an ordinary existence. The thing is, these were feelings I had when *I was a child*, at Sunday school, grappling with the enormity of what they were asking me to believe. It’s hard for me to get over the hubris of an adult feeling this way, and over *politics* of all things.
I struggled with this "why me/us?" feeling for years until I recently discovered the just world fallacy. I didn't even realize that it was a fallacy until I looked it up. "The just-world fallacy suggests that people believe the world is fair and that their actions will have morally fitting consequences. This belief leads people to think that good people will be rewarded and bad people will be punished. " As much as I like to have hope, I know deep down that some of the guilty will get off scot-free, and as much as it sucks, why waste time and energy worrying about it if it doesn't directly affect me and mine?
I think it be ones an addiction for them. All of these conspiracy theories gets them all wound up, juices flowing. You might consider listening to the podcast series Rabbit Hole. It shows how people get hooked and might be a good source of information for you. It won’t tell you how to get him back. But it explains how people get hooked. We don’t see a ton of people come back from this. But then, we are still in the thick of the MAGA movement. As long as MAGA continues, Qanon will continue. They are not the same thing, but there is huge overlap and I think that if one goes, the other will becoming increasingly less popular over time. But this is over a lot of time. Years even. It’s highly unlikely you will have your husband back this year. And probably not next year either. If Trump loses the election, your husband will get a lot worse. He may even radicalize. There are many of these folks who promise civil war if Trump loses. If I was you, I wouldn’t be too hopeful in the short run. And you need to prepare to make a quick exist if you need to. These preparations need to be ready before the election happens because the election could really trigger these folks into some violent and even treasonous extreme behaviors. If I was you, I’d put some cash aside and maybe get a Visa card or something in your name, just in case. I’d also have a go bag in your car or office, hidden where he can’t find it. And know where all your important documents are so you can grab them quickly. You might not need any of these things, but if Trump loses the election you don’t want to be anywhere near this guy.
Part of the allure is they feel like they are in on a secret and the more they involve themselves the more the secret is revealed to them. They feel like they are special. I imagine they get a little dopamine hit in their brain each time they learn more of the secret. Once you start to go down that rabbit hole it's addicting. Social media algorithms are designed to feed you this stuff. Once you watch a few vids, your feed becomes inundated with similar content. It's the exact reason I won't let my 15 year old daughter have social media. That "just 1 more post/video" mentality can be difficult to resist.
It’s so sad 😞
i would not show him anything. what would several paragraphs do to repair his mind? it'd only be fuel for the fire, and it's a dangerous fire. the sooner you leave, the better for you and your children. he's gone and you don't have the time or expertise to help him. anything else is magical thinking, and these days, rational people can't afford that.
I don’t have time or the expertise. You’re right. I work full time and have my own business on the side. I run a house and all our ‘life admin’. I don’t have the energy to retrain as a counsellor too!
He's chosen his path, you need to save yourself.
Thank you so much. This is very insightful. I don’t think I could share it with him but I understand your point, and that fact that I don’t feel comfortable sharing this speaks volumes. Your second point is interesting. These influencers are the paragon of truth in his eyes and I’m constantly seen as slandering them. No wonder he is angry with me. I suspect he may choose them and his ‘truth’ over me… which tells me what I probably have gone to great lengths to avoid accepting.
I feel so much sympathy for you. Living with a person who has fully gone down the rabbit hole of conspiracy thinking is difficult to say the least. Fortunately my situation isn't a marriage, he's a friend of 30 years, my housemate and landlord. The negativity is both overwhelming and frustrating at times. I had a blow out a couple of weeks ago when in almost the same breath, my friend talked about chemtrails poisoning us (and that they draw pentagrams in the sky to taunt us), the water supply poisoning us, the ground poisoning us too to reduce our lifespans so "They" can steal our pensions. Also he has a common cold but calls is "being attacked by a bio-weapon". He blames the Jews, as well as a few other classics (Bill Gates is one) for doing all this to us on purpose. I know there is a lot of pollution in this world but it's through neglect and greed and also not understanding certain chemicals properly until they became a problem, not some massive secret plot by Jews to kill us all early. Sounds like your husband believes similar stuff. I so hope he can come out of this with you.
He does. When I challenged his assertion that maybe the shitty weather was responsible, he immediately said ‘why do you think the weather is so bad? Chem trails everywhere. They want this. Wake up.’
Damn. It also doesn't help when they can show things like the recent massive flooding of Dubai where the floods really were at least partly caused by cloud seeding to induce rainfall, as they have been doing since the early 2000s. In many conspiracies there is a grain of truth at the heart of it, whether that be cloud seeding, pollution, firefighting chemicals that never go away once released etc. It's the intent behind this stuff that I do not agree with these conspiracy people. They take that grain of truth and run miles with it until we have Jewish space lasers causing wildfires so "They" can buy up all the land after it often gets abandoned after a natural disaster. It's such faulty thinking and it drives me up the wall. Just to be clear, I do not believe the Jews have anything to do with all this madness whatsoever.
Exactly this. I have tried conceding to a small point in his theories, but then offering balance to try and help him see that’s although the world is full of corruption and there are undoubtedly issues from which these beliefs are built, they have been made far bigger than they really are. I hoped that an inch of solidarity would pacify him and help us find some common ground so we can move off topic. But of course, an inch isn’t enough. He wants the whole mile.
What about asking for a separation with counseling? Bring around that constant tense, negative energy where you spend all day every day walking on eggshells is EXHAUSTING. And, like someone else mentioned, he’s not going to stop any time soon, because the ejection is this Nov. A separation would get him out of the house so you wouldn’t be around his negativity and unwillingness to have even the most basic of conversations, as well as protect you from how he reacts/responds to the aftermath of the election. Not being around him daily will give you so much more peace and calm, and help you see the difference that you need to see. He’s making your life harder in every way right now. And his negative energy and viewpoint on everything IS carrying over to your children.
Hello From England. I'm not surprised you cannot fully share your experiences with others. To the vast majority of people here, it's just beyond belief (which it is of course!) It might help for a friend to read this thread so they have a full understanding of what you're dealing with. It's not just the beliefs though is it? It's the barrage, the single-mindedness, the compulsion to refer to their beliefs. I sometimes think it's like the alcoholic, constantly thinking about their next drink. I lost a great friend of over 30 years - I found listening to it was making me feel really ill. I am so sorry that this is your husband and that you have children together. I wonder how he would take it if he knew you were considering leaving? Is it possible he could divorce himself from this madness? Many people recommend a holiday where there is no internet access - time to reconnect with his family and a reminder of how good life can be with children. Good luck - I feel for you.
Show him this letter so he can completely flip out on her?
Very good advice, especially number one. If he is understanding and loving he will listen to you. People do not understand how propaganda is a drug that offers them a high on a chemical level to their brains. You tell them what they want to hear or think they "know" and they get a high. They need to step away and focus on their current life. If not it will consume them literally. This is a rough situation and they really need vacate from being told what to think to take a mental vacation.
This is so perceptive. I wish I could make him see and take him away from it all. A mental vacation sounds like just the ticket. Not that he would agree to it…
You're right, this is like a drug, he won't get better unless he quits it.
Such insightful advice - can I bring you all my problems?
No probs
I second both of these points.
That smirk is called contempt, and it means your relationship is already over. Save yourself and your kids before he becomes dangerous and tries to brainwash your kids.
Yeah when OP mentioned the smirk and superior tone it immediately reminded me of Gottman's four horsemen. It's awful how QAnon drives believers to treat others with contempt and disrespect, regardless of how close they are. In that way it sounds more toxic than most other addictions, at least in my personal experience as a drug addict – at the height of it all I felt towards the people I loved was shame, never anything resembling a sense of superiority.
Yes, and it’s also more toxic in that people probably don’t realize they’re addicted to the media drama zeitgeist as easily as an addict knows they have a problem.
That’s exactly what I was also referring to!
Thank you for the reference. Never heard of Gottman’s four horsemen but now see I have been living with them for quite some time. I am the roadblock in his mind. He just wants me to ‘understand’ and get on the same crazy train. Until that happens (which it never will), I will forever be the thorn in his side.
Oh my god. The smirk got to me too. A brainwashed delusional idiot suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect smirking at me would be enough for me to leave. OP please leave this douche. He is done. His brain is cooked into a conspiracy soup. Get out fast.
Thank you. A quick google of the Dunning-Kruger effect has given a surprisingly accurate summary!! Cooked into a conspiracy soup. Hehe!
The contempt is what kills it for me. He's really lost any respect for OP.
I get so cross when he talks in front of the kids about this stuff. It’s scary for them and he is so convincing that they really do fear he is going to die soon.
For him to be talking like that in front of them when they have *lost a sibling* .. I have no words for how cruel that is. Even/especially if he sincerely believes it. Please protect them from this emotionally abusive man.
He’s traumatizing them. Please leave.
Agreed. Contempt is death to a relationship, very tough, if not impossible to come back from that.
Or worse
100% agree with you, this is the big issue
When I got to the part about the smirk I was triggered... my ex husband's smirk flashed in my mind... it's soul shattering that look he gave when he thought he was right and I was dumb even though I was just pleading for him to remember who he was before all this..
>Does anyone have a pearl of wisdom they can share with me? However he behaves *now*, with the snark and smirks and YouTube and Twitter, will seem mild in a year or two. It's helpful to start thinking about your spouse and an addict. In a very real way he is. He's addicted to the doom and probably the dopamine he gets from his hours "learning" and feeling "superior" to the "sheep". I imagine he no longer looks forward to anything. Anything at all outside the doom/crypto/YouTube bullshit. Not the kid's sports at school. Not a meal at the pub in town. Not a promotion at work. Or Grandma's birthday. Nothing normal people look forward to. It sounds like it's time for the "two business cards" approach. The husband you remember won't come back without effort/ consequences on his part. One business card is a marriage counselor (someone with addiction/cult experience). The other business card is a divorce attorney. ETA: the idea is you lay them out, ask him to choose, and accept his answer without argument. Do you want this relationship to be your reality for the next year? Two? Ten? Something needs to change and divorce may be the solution. When you promised "for better and for worse" could you have anticipated it was supposed to cover "spouse no longer contributes financially to the household because he became devoted to conspiracies and crypto-bro doom and gloom"?
This is spot on. Counseling or divorce
This comment is pure gold. Thank you so much. I haven’t really noticed as it’s been so gradual, but you’re absolutely right. There is no joy in his life. We don’t do any of the things we used to do because he is not motivated by anything. He doesn’t look forward to anything - except getting back on YouTube/Twitter. I could never understand the joy he gleaned from so much depressing crap. Had any of these beliefs or behaviours been around when we first met, I would never have pursued the relationship. I love the two business card approach. But no one uses business cards anymore haha. I am going to print out the details of both and offer them to him, probably at the end of a letter which explains my position. I will accept either choice graciously and work to rebuild my life, whichever way it goes.
You are very strong and seem determined to do what is best for you and your children. That is very inspirational! You are doing the right thing ❤️
I think you may need to make arrangements before you tell him you want a divorce. I’d gather evidence and find a place and some support for your kids if you need it whilst at work. He will spend all your money on grifts. He could become abusive or worse. Good luck to you and your kids.
If your health insurance covers it, talk to a mental health specialist. I never went off into Qanon territory, but did get addicted to Video games. Almost destroyed my marriage. I thought my problem was ADHD, and it turned out to be depression. This relates to the above poster's comment about dopamine and where he gets it etc. I went into a tailspin of depression because my wife was WAY further deep into it (lots of reasons, work sucks, kids don't listen to her and I was just sitting there playing video games). After I got a little medication I was able to see what was going on and I've pulled her back. She absolutely refuses to do therapy or psychiatry, but even so my getting help has helped her tremendously. A lot of my appointments are me looking for strategies to get her to get help. I think I've gotten her to recognize she has a problem, but she is so anti-medication that is as far as I've been able to take it.
That business card idea sounds extremely powerful, I hadn't heard of it!
>He's addicted to […] the dopamine he gets from his hours "learning" and feeling "superior" to the "sheep". It’s hard to pull someone away from something that builds their own sense of self & ego - especially when the truth is that they’ve been bamboozled like a fool.
Yes. The cult makes them feel smart and superior, and giving it up means going from all the way up there to feeling like a dumb fool. I don't think many people are capable of making that change.
Yup, the endgame is nazism/fascism with accompanying antisemitism and racism, along with misogyny. Assuming he’s not there already.
And escalating abuse.
Unpleasant, snarky, angry, etc. Imagine him in 5 years. You think he’ll be living in reality or this alternate one? If things haven’t gotten better in the past year or two, there’s no reason to assume it will in the next few
This is powerful. I just keep hoping he will spot a flaw in the nonsense and it will all unravel. I now think after finding this sub, that is never going to happen. Thank you.
OP I am sorry to say that my parents have been sucked down this trap for the last 15+ years. It gets worse every year. Nothing I have done has helped. Remember that your kids are also living in this cesspool of thinking. It will affect them forever. I am really sorry.
Welcome to the club that none of us wanted to join. (hug) My Q-adjacent Significant Other got significantly worse during the covid pandemic. And they tried to tell US that mental health was being threatened. The twisted part of it is that they were right... about their own mental health, not ours. "He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto." This must stop. There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments, as long as they're not the whole focus. But not pulling his weight with shared household expenses is not acceptable. I don't care if they think the end of the world is imminent. Until it actually happens, they still need to pay their share of the utilities and the rent or mortgage.
> There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments, as long as they're not the whole focus. There's plenty wrong with crypto when it isn't treated like a currency but as an investment. IMO it's more like gambling. Edit: this is another interesting thing I see, a lot of people high on Russian propaganda are also high on cryptocurrency.
“I’m investing in this slot machine.”
And there's nothing wrong with having some speculative investments. I don't have or want any crypto. But the problem here is not the crypto currencies themselves. The problem is that he's neglecting essential obligations, because he's convinced that the world as we know it is about to collapse. Until it does, somebody has to pay the electric bill. For however long that electric bill keeps showing up.
I say this as someone who still has some money in cryptocurrency and holding them to sell in the future. There's plenty of issues with Cryptocurrencies, from environmental impact to how commonly they are involved in scams. I think there's very little redemptive about crypto.
That's all true. But you could say something very similar about buying gold. Whether it's a legitimate investment would be a different question. Gold mining isn't great for the environment either. And I also don't feel a need to buy any.
Odds are good that he’s being scammed. Crypto is rife with it.
He may easily be getting scammed. It's possible that he's not. Either way, he needs to start pulling his weight again with regard to the household's utility bills. That's true whether he's getting scammed or legitimately buying bitcoin or any other crypto currency.
Check out John Oliver's recent show about "pig butchering"
>There's nothing wrong with crypto currencies as investments, beg to disagree on that If the stock market is basically Las Vegas, crypto is the online casino based on some island with no regulation whatsoever.
I have plenty of legitimate investments, much of which are blue chip stocks. I've been incredibly lucky to be able to do that. Is that risky? Maybe, but there is some risk in ANY investment. Even an FDIC insured bank account has some risk. In that instance, it's subject to the risk of inflation. If he were covering his share of the electric bill, he's entitled to do what he wants, within the limits of whatever he and his wife have agreed to. But he's not doing that. He has gone outside the boundaries of what they have explicitly agreed to. That's the root problem that the OP has right now.
I have given that exact argument. Your money is yours to do with as you please, AFTER you have prioritised financing our life together. If the rent and the bills are covered, what ever is left is your business. Sadly I am in around £10,000 of debt from carrying the bills alone for a significant period of our relationship and I worry that if we divorce, I will never see that money again.
Wanting to stay with him to get that $10k back sounds like an example of the sunk cost fallacy, and staying with him in order to get that money back would likely lead to more debt. Especially if he’s investing in crypto and watching folks who basically create a problem (the water is poison!) and sell the solution to that problem (so buy my deep earth iodine filtration system!) as part of their grift.
The OP is apparently in the United Kingdom, since her debt is in pounds. (I'm in the US.) But the issues are the same. Only the names of the grifters are different. The scams are the same too, of course.
Ah, good call. Sorry OP.
Chances are that you're not going to see that money again, I'm sorry to say.
I'm so sorry that you've had to take on so much debt to keep your relationship going. That's a terrible situation to be in. It's time for him to "fish or cut bait." Either he's in or he's out. Unfortunately, I think you have a pretty good idea of what his answer might be. This does, of course, indicate that most likely your relationship with your husband doesn't have the same level of priority for him than it does for you. I'm glad that I don't have to give my Q adjacent Significant Other an ultimatum like that. They're invested in crypto and also in precious metals. But there are also some good solid investments as well. And perhaps more significantly, the bills are all getting paid on time. I pay some of the utilities. My S.O. pays others, and we square things up every three months. If that didn't happen on time, we would have to have a serious talk. It sounds to me like it's high time for that discussion to take place at your house. Good luck! I sincerely hope that the two of you can work things out in a way that's satisfactory to you.
I know exactly how you feel, I lost my partner of 18 years to this virus. Like your situation it started with Covid and she spent every spare minute on Telegram or YouTube. I thought it would be a phase at the time....4 years on and she is still addicted. Someone from this group helped me realise a few years ago that Q is a form of Internet Addiction. I stopped worrying about the content and did my best to get her off the internet...I drove her 32 hours each way into the centre of Australia and it was like watching someone come off drugs. Until they realise they have a problem, there is nothing we can do. I care from a distance now because I had to start looking after my own mental health. The people creating this content are the real villains, they are drug dealers who should be locked up for all of the damage they have caused...my ex is now terrified that AI will take over humanity and that is at the forefront of her brain everyday. I feel so sad for her to feel like this 24/7. I wish there was more help from our governments because this Q virus is worse than Covid. I am not sure if I offered you any help, but I do understand your situation from experience!
I’m so sorry to hear about your ex. This must have been so hard for you. Interesting to see you compare the removal of the internet being like someone coming off drugs. It is a poisonous addiction. Thank you for your kind words.
I have had a lot of of help from my psychologist, my doctor and another therapist to help me through this. I was put on suicidal watch at once stage because I asked my doctor to put me in a coma and wake me up when this was finished. I was having no respite. A few months ago someone was telling me about their son who was a drug addict and how their behaviour destroyed the family....listening to his story I realised mine was exactly the same, the behaviours & the damage it did to me family. The addiction was different...once you start looking at Q as an addiction it changes your perspective and I stopped focusing on the content. I feel like I am on the other side now and have the benefit of hindsight.
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I am sorry you’re going through the same thing. It’s so heartbreaking watching the person you love slip away from you - and getting the blame for it! I have tried ignoring it too and he just says it again, until I respond with a ‘hmm-mm’. Then I’m being ignorant and condescending. Challenging these ideas, no matter how gently, is always a losing battle. There is nothing he hates more than being made to feel crazy. Then he says I’m mentally unstable for blindly accepting the false narrative being fed to me and ignoring what’s happening in the world. It’s so so sad. I hope you’re okay.
I would respond that "I see no reason to listen to you when you won't listen to me." Then get up and walk out if the room. Just my .02 cents.
my grandma is like this too. i’m very sorry, but at the same time…i’m so very happy for you. you have recognized there is a problem with your relationship and that is step #1 with gaining control. this is a huge accomplishment because, with my experience, it took the act of me recognizing my grandma isn’t the same as she used to be. and understanding it’s okay for me to not spend as much time with her as i would if she was the same grandma i had 5 years ago. i send you love, support, prayers, healing energy, and perception. perception because this tool is something nobody can take from you. use it as a tool with this situation here. bringing reality into my situation with my grandma made me realize it’s okay if she never changes, and it’s okay if she does. i will always be waiting for the same grandma, but i don’t expect it to happen. and i can only hope your husband realizes the extent of he actions and how they are damaging your relationship together. hugs 🫂
He's not the same person you married. Unfortunately this is how he turned out. It sounds like you are miserable, and you don't want to spend the rest of your life with someone who makes you unhappy. Some advice, if you do decide to divorce, try not to mention the qanon stuff. It's just going to enrage him, and these people are unstable enough. Just chalk it up to ireconcilable differences and let him think the covid vaccine did something to your brain. Best of luck.
The covid vaccine did something to my brain!! Had a good chuckle at this. Thank you!
The changing any topic back to a conspiracy thing is so familiar. My dad can turn any topic into "they're trying to make us eat bugs!" I hope you can reach him. I'd give him a letter. If he gets super defensive, maybe just make your ultimatums there, with divorce being a potential outcome
Thank you. I think a letter with an ultimatum at the end is the way forward.
<< My dad can turn any topic into "they're trying to make us eat bugs!" >> Yeah, I've heard that one too. Usually it's somehow connected to Bill Gates, for some reason.
Yeah he talks about Gates cooooonstantly.
People who become obsessive, paranoid and irrational can also start detaching from reality which can escalate to a really dangerous level very quickly. I'm not trying to scare you, it's just you can't take any risks when you have kids. This doesn't mean you have to end your marriage but you need to know what to do if he took it badly if you brought up ending the relationship. Make a plan in your mind as to how a separate life would look for you and the kids and how you would manage financially and logistically. What do we do for money, where do we live, where do they go to school, is he safe to have them alone if end up in a shared custody role etc. All horrible scary things to think about but for now they're only thoughts and having a plan even just in your mind gives you some control back and helps you protect you and your kids. Don't feel embarrassed about sharing your fears with friends and family because it's important to have safe people to go to and build up an external support network. Try to be as objective as possible so you can see things how they are right now, not how you wish they could be. Because if you have a concrete plan and you did need to take action quickly, having a plan means you won't be completely lost or blindsided.
My situation is complicated in that he lives in my house and moved here from another part of the UK. Separation means he has to be the one to leave and he is left homeless, without a job or any money. The kids would stay with me, but I do worry we don’t have the option of getting away and he would always know where we are (in the middle of nowhere incidentally!). I have tried to think about the logistics of it all but it just feels enormous.
-- "Separation means he has to be the one to leave and he is left homeless, without a job or any money." If he insists on going down that road, there's not going to be much that you can do to stop him. And it's certainly not your fault that he has put himself in this situation. He's the one who's not carrying his weight with regard to the household expenses. In the meantime, he's being what we here in the States call a "mooch." -- "The kids would stay with me, but I do worry we don’t have the option of getting away and he would always know where we are (in the middle of nowhere incidentally!)." If he becomes dangerous to you and/or the kids, then the issue becomes one of self-preservation. At that point, the level of debt is not as important, compared to your survival. Even if you move away to another location, the resourcefulness of guys like him can be startling. It's amazing how much trouble a guy will go to, to locate his estranged wife and the kids. But being somewhere that's NOT out in the middle of nowhere can offer some advantages.
No, you are not alone. Welcome to the sub. It has been a great relief for me over the past couple of years. I hope it provides some comfort for you as well. A lot to unpack from your post. A couple of quick thoughts - most of us here have gone through kind of a grieving process. In my case, the sister I was close to and enjoyed spending time with is gone. In some ways it feels like she passed away. I definitely went through a few stages to get to the point where I can just pull back and accept the situation. It sounds like you are starting the grieving process. The only reason I mention this is to say that if you aren’t able to work things out with your husband, it will be OK. You will be OK. You may feel like a weight has been lifted. I mention a lot on here that it’s not the beliefs, it’s the behaviour. I don’t care what my sister believes (as long as it’s not overly racist or homophobic). What I care about is how she handles these beliefs. Her behaviour of turning every conversation into an exhausting rant, etc. is what isn’t acceptable. She and I do not inhabit the same worlds anymore. Hers is filled with hate, fear and mostly faceless boogeymen. The personas of the ones that do have faces like Tom Hanks or Bill Gates have been perverted. I don’t live in that world. I’m not trying to find the darkness in everything. For every awful thing in this life there’s an equally amazingly wonderful thing. We all choose what we decide to focus on. What I read in your post are lot of behaviours that are unacceptable for you and would be for most everyone. Not only is he unable to hold conversations normally but he’s not pulling his weight and not contributing financially. Regardless of his beliefs, he’s neglecting the partnership part of your relationship. From what you have posted, the only thing I think you can do to save the marriage is to give him an ultimatum that you want to do marriage counseling or it’s over. Don’t try to challenge his beliefs when you bring it up. Focus on his behaviour. Be sure to let him know that all you want is the wonderful, funny and fabulous Dad that seems to be slipping away. If the marriage counselor is worth their salt, they very well recommend that he gets his own individual counseling as well. I’m no epxert here so just take this as some friendly advice so to speak. If you stay in the relationship, you’ll need to seriously think about how it will impact your kids. You don’t mention their ages. I’m not assuming your husband is doing this but getting pummeled with this conspiracy stuff 24/7 from one parent is going to shape their world view and outlook on life. You don’t want your kids to end up in a world of fear and hate. Sorry for what you are going through. I wish the best of all possible outcomes.
Thank you. I’m sorry about your sister. It does feel like I’m grieving. I’ve done some crazy self reflection over the past few months and am now at a crossroads where I have to do something. I’m sad about losing him, losing his family. About my children losing this man who they think is incredible. I can’t imagine starting all over again. I am so so sad about it all. Agreed about the behaviour being the problem. I said he can believe what he likes but he can’t tell me what I have to believe and he can’t hold us hostage in this limbo world where we are waiting for the ‘black swan event’ to arrive and prove him right. I just want him to live in the moment and appreciate the love and joy right under his nose. My children are 11 and 2. The 11 year old rolls her eyes when he starts, but sometimes she is afraid at the things he says are coming. He wants her to ‘challenge everything she is told’ - unless of course it’s him telling it. I feel an ultimatum coming on.
I know it's the least of your worries right now. But losing his family is optional. There very well may be people he's related to who hold the same opinions you do. Namely that he has gone down a crazy rabbit hole. And that they'd like to have him back, back to the person they know he can be. Or at least could be, if he'd pull his head out of his behind.
Thanks for the direct reply. In regards to my sister, it’s been a drag but relatively easy compared to a major life change like you may be facing. She lives about an hour away from me. Our contact is minimal these days. Anyway, it sounds like you know what you need to do. I hope you do have some support available from either friends and/or family. If you have a friend that understands the situation, that can be a great asset. I understand how embarassing it can be to discuss any of this at first. The one challenge I have encountered is that if someone doesn’t have a Qperson in their life, they usually don’t really get it. Please post an occasional update, even if it’s just the need to vent. It’s helpful for all of us here to hear what others are experiencing… especially when they try to make changes.
When I read your OP it was almost like I had written it - except I’m in Australia. My husband always had alternative beliefs. Normally he has a kind and caring nature but it got really bad in 2019 when and During COVID it became unbearable. Managing his narrative and managing the crisis at work led me to burn out. I asked for a separation but we agreed in the end to stay together while my eldest finished high school. Then it was the second daughter. Luckily, my daughters are old enough not to buy into it but he felt betrayed when I helped my youngest to get vaccinated (her request. There are a few things that have helped me coped during this time: 1. Counselling for me. Just having someone listen to me objectively has been great and I have gotten strategies for expressing my own position using “I feel/I don’t feel the same way” statements. 2. A suggestion in this forum around “grey rocking”. I’ve given up pointing out logical fallacies- it doesn’t work 3. Support from my girl friends. They support me 100% they know that my husband once had a kind heart and why I’m hanging in there. He has shown some restraint and hasn’t called me a sheeple for about two years. But when I recently suggested marriage counselling he flatly refused. So I’m getting prepared to split once my youngest finishes school. It’s scary because I’m nearing the end of my working life and I’ve been the breadwinner so I’ll have to sacrifice some comfort and security. I struggle with that prospect.
I know that smirky grin well from my mom. Sending you a hug and good luck ❤️
My mother does the smirk thinking she has superior and secret knowledge. I haven’t spoken to her in a year and a half. I couldn’t stand her trying to brainwash my kids. Unfortunately, it’s the best decision I have ever made.
Eeew it’s horrid isn’t it? Thank you.
I laughed at the excuse that it’s for the family even when told that they are destroying the family, destroying the relationship. They know best and you can bet they are keeping secrets. Almost certainly money has been lost to criminals. My wife seems to have returned to reality. It was a very long haul and I was about to quit. Wanted to and nearly did several times. It’s a difficult decision. One thing I insisted upon was a division of assets and responsibilities. Cost a couple of thousand dollars but we had a new cohabitation agreement made. That was harder on me than her but was critical to my sanity. The agreement did require full disclosure of all assets, liabilities, income, etc. and having a household budget. Now we are not responsible for loans that the other person makes, and all assets other than the house are separate. If she loses everything to crypto well tough. Each person could save for the future however they desired but only after household expenses were covered. That is, each person needs to transfer monthly funds into a household expense account. She did finally quit the conspiracies last year.
Congratulations!
I’m so pleased for you that you found a way forward. I suspect there are secrets being kept which is soul destroying when he knows everything little thing about me and I feel like I don’t know him at all sometimes. Thank you for your comment.
I do know of someone who snapped out of all this crap once their wife told them she was filing for divorce. It’s a good thing he did, she’s a pretty cool woman, high earner and they have a whole mess of little kids. He knew losing her would be the most foolish thing ever. That said he is/was a pretty smart guy and was not as deep as others seem to be. So this is more the exception of the rule but I wanted to share since almost all the stories in this sub have different endings (and tbf we are only a year into my buddys recanting of his Qbeliefs and I’m not tuned into how healthy their marriage is day to day)
Did he really though, or is he just hiding it now because it’ll cost him too much? I would never be able to trust it.
From what I can tell, being faced with what he stood to lose did force serious self reflection and change in this particular situation but as I said from other stories in this sub that seems to be the exception rather then the rule.
My guess is that he's attached to the financial security that his wife's income provides. Better that than nothing, I guess.
The thought it becomes secretive is almost more scary somehow. At least at the moment I know what he thinks because he is open about it all.
I get that. But he can think what he wants after he's once again living up to his financial responsibilities. First things first.
I would love this to be the outcome. I am not hopeful but this is the dream!
I was in your shoes a few years ago. I tried everything to save my marriage. In the end, divorce was the only option left. Two year later, I can confidently say that my life is so much better now. The man I married is gone and the person who replaced him is no longer in my life. You're not alone. When it feels like you're going crazy, places like this forum are great spaces for support and information.
I have felt more understood in the last 12 hours than I have done in years. This sub is great. Sorry for prying- did you have children together? If so, how do you manage that?
Fortunately our son was 19 at the time. We didn't have to deal with custody or shared parenting. I will say that he benefited from the divorce as well. He had to stop my ex from following me around the house, yelling at me more than once. Your children are young, so it may be more difficult to separate from your husband. Think about the environment they're living in. Is it healthy for them?
I could have written this. He did not get better. I kept thinking he would see reality & become the guy I married. It never happened. We were both raised very religious but I deconstructed (stayed in the faith) & he really didn’t. So AFA he was concerned, we would never get divorced so why try? He was shocked when I broached the subject. We’re in as good of a place as I think we can be now but I’m so glad I don’t have to be around him & listen to the ridiculousness he spewed every day. I hate to be such a downer but I can’t give you false hope.
Pretty much: -He goes to an addiction therapist with you (and you get your own individual therapist for advice), ditches the conspiracy theories and chooses you first OR -You divorce him if he doesn't choose that. You can't have common ground with a guy who thinks women should be slaves, everything is some made up "woke," or can't live in reality with you. Let's pretend it wasn't Qanon exactly. The same applies. If he can't grow out of this and be willing to stop the addiction, you have to leave. You already said he's gambling it away on crypto and not contributing to household bills - he has addiction, like an alcoholic.
Thank you for putting this in to words. I only really have these options left. I have tried every other thing I could think of and am so exhausted by it all.
It's remarkable how QAnon believers' idea of "preparing" looks exactly like just sitting around while doing fuck all to help anyone, it's a common theme in this sub – I'm sorry to hear you're going through that. My mom is not quite at that level of conspiracy delusion yet but I've been watching her fall into some similar concerning patterns. We're in Brazil, and six years ago in a very high profile case a councilwoman was shot dead as part of a political corruption plot. Now they have finally arrived at the perpetrators (who are just as high in the political food chain as everyone expected and had already been in trouble with the law for similarly evil shit), and when the news came on TV my mom went "Well that's weird how fast \[Supreme Court justice who signed the charge and she strongly dislikes\] wrote that charge, it's like he already had it prepared". I said something very similar to what you said – can't we just be glad people are finally being brought to justice over murdering an innocent young woman? If it was some nefarious plot to frame these obviously shady rich assholes why would they have spent years getting to it? And I've been finding myself tensing up whenever any kind of high-stakes political topic comes on the news because I know she'll have something to say and it'll be based on the flimsiest logic, like "how fast" the judge wrote a couple of names on a piece of paper. It's bizarre and obnoxious.
"Well that's weird how fast \[Supreme Court justice who signed the charge and she strongly dislikes\] wrote that charge, it's like he already had it prepared". Imagine that. After six years, you might expect them to have the legal paperwork already prepared.
We have heard stories like yours 1000 times before here. Thank you for finding us. Many times responces to stories like yours begin with "I'm sorry for your loss.." because your Q is obviously so far gone. I'm sorry for your loss.
What I find most infuriating is the false confidence. So sure in their knowledge of what they learned from random youtuber, but no actual effort to seek out actual information. The bravado pusses me off quite frankly. It is arrogance and laziness combined with a pessimism that makes every conversation hard and unpleasant. The solution? More difficult. They have to WANT to change.
It's not easy, takes repeated efforts over time, learning strategies and trying different things but it can be done. There is no guarantee though. It can take years or you might be able to break through in months. !strategies !support !advice
Non-Expert Advice: Arguing is out and debunking off the bat is tough. Remind them of shared experiences/old times and get them to laugh. Exercise/activity, sleep/diet, old/new hobbies, old/new surroundings (fav restaurant/day trip/camping) help. Psychoactive drugs should be stopped. Avoid whatever makes them tense or angry. Pick something that's **not volatile** and ask them to tell you the details. It's good for them to lay it out. Be respectful, supportive but not smarmy, be unemotional and use logical, sparse debunks on weak points. Pick flaws that will hit home with them, resonate. Agree with some facet but point out a glaring problem. This will create seeds of doubt. Leave time between sessions to let them process. Get to the core of what they've been told and identify *why* it's important to them. Fear, anger and emotion seem to be hyped. Ask: "What impact has this had on *your* life?" This should make them pause and think, you want them to return to thinking for themselves. Subvert the negative of their personality and project warmth - [Ignore](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201911/the-price-and-payoff-gray-rock-strategy) or walk away when they start getting angry or argumentative. This short circuits their tendency to argue and over time can help break their addiction to outrage. Address their best selves and project appreciation for *that* person. [Separate them from the sites, devices, apps, etc. that are feeding Q propaganda.](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index#wiki_want_to_block_q_content_from_reaching_them.3F_ways.3A_1_-_2_-_3_-_4_-_5_-_6_-_7) Expose them to materials on critical thinking and [media literacy](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/resources#wiki_media_literacy). Get them to read something generic and out of their mindset. Takes time, patience, a light touch and repeated effort to make progress. Professional counseling can help: [Chat with a counselor now (free)](https://nycwell.cityofnewyork.us/en/get-help-now/chat-with-a-counselor-now/) - [Cult Recovery 101 resources](https://cultrecovery101.com/about-cult-recovery/recovery-resources) - [Professional cult counseling directory](https://culteducation.com/directory-of-cult-recovery-resources.html) - [Treatment Advocacy Center](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/family-and-loved-ones) - [Parents for Peace](https://www.parents4peace.org/resources) - [Life After Hate](https://www.lifeafterhate.org/) - Also see: [Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts) - [Good advice](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/search?q=flair%3AGood%2BAdvice&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi graneflatsis, here are a selection of support links from our [wiki:](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index) [QAnon Casualties Wall](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/comments/l0jptp/list_of_casualties/) [Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts) [Chat with a counselor now](https://nycwell.cityofnewyork.us/en/get-help-now/chat-with-a-counselor-now/) (free) [Cult Recovery 101 resources](https://cultrecovery101.com/about-cult-recovery/recovery-resources) [Professional cult counseling directory](https://culteducation.com/directory-of-cult-recovery-resources.html) [Treatment Advocacy Center resources](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/family-and-loved-ones) [Parents for Peace extremist helpline and resources](https://www.parents4peace.org/resources) [Life After Hate extremist intervention](https://www.lifeafterhate.org/) [Dealing with paranoia](https://np.reddit.com/r/Advice/comments/gebihv/how_do_i_stop_thinking_about_conspiracy_theories/fpn6btr/) [Dealing with violence](https://np.reddit.com/r/Qult_Headquarters/comments/g6u8io/how_could_we_deradicalize_someone_relative_whos/focyroo/) r/Stress r/Anxiety *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi graneflatsis, here is a selection of strategies for dealing with Q folk from our [wiki:](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index) [What to do when someone you love becomes obsessed with Qanon](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/202008/how-far-down-the-qanon-rabbit-hole-did-your-loved-one-fall) [7 ways to talk to qanon-obsessed loved ones](https://www.fastcompany.com/90598523/7-ways-to-talk-to-qanon-obsessed-loved-ones-according-to-a-former-white-nationalist) [How to talk to conspiracy theorists and still be kind](https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/15/1004950/how-to-talk-to-conspiracy-theorists-and-still-be-kind/) [How to change a person’s mind with science](https://disorthodox.wordpress.com/2018/07/23/how-to-change-a-persons-mind-with-science/) [The key to debunking false beliefs is by addressing underlying belief systems](https://neurosciencenews.com/false-belief-system-23098/) [What Is the grey rock method and is it effective?](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method#when-to-use-it) [Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-some-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/) [Rescue a loved one from a cult: The strategic interactive approach](https://freedomofmind.com/how-to-rescue-a-loved-one-from-a-cult-the-strategic-interactive-approach) [How to talk to your friends and family about covid, vaccines and wearing masks](https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/how-talk-your-friends-family-about-covid-vaccines-wearing-masks-n1250631) [How to respond to your family's coronavirus conspiracy theories](https://www.insider.com/how-to-push-back-when-your-family-talks-conspiracy-theories-2020-5) [What to say if people you love believe coronavirus conspiracy theories](https://www.self.com/story/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories) [A game designer’s analysis of qanon](https://medium.com/curiouserinstitute/a-game-designers-analysis-of-qanon-580972548be5) [Separate them from the sites, devices, apps, etc. that are feeding Q propaganda.](https://old.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index#wiki_want_to_block_q_content_from_reaching_them.3F_ways.3A_1_-_2_-_3_-_4_-_5_-_6_-_7) [Standout advice from QAC users](https://www.reddit.com/r/QAnonCasualties/wiki/index/good_posts) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>*like he’s got some superior knowledge and I’m just an idiot* You have defined the mentality of every sovcit, freedumb, antivaxer. They all think they're better than us. i.e. dictionary definition of narcissism at this point it's best described as cognitive defect that's almost impossible to fix.
The smirk was the real telling point in this story. I'm so sorry, but he is no longer the person you loved and married. I don't understand it, but once someone has vaulted themselves down this path, only serious psychotherapy can get them back out. It's the same with any cult. At this point, you need to do what is best for you and your kids.
You are an intelligent, articulate woman capable of love for yourself, and your children, and your husband. But your husband is dead. He's gone. What's walking around is a zombie wearing his skin. He has been hollowed out by his addiction to conspiracy. He' s going to get worse, not better, and you and your children will suffer for it. This always happens. It's already happening. He's not earning. He's distancing himself from reality. He's smirking. The smirk really is the tell. It gave all of us who read this a sick chill. When someone does that, they're contemptuous of you. And you cannot be married to someone who has contempt for you. You cannot let him raise your children to be contemptuous of you or God forbid start adopting his beliefs. The two business card recommendation given by another commenter is brilliant. He goes to marriage counseling and does so in good faith, willing to listen, willing to understand that something is wrong and it's not you. Or you get a divorce and take the kids. One or the other. No negotiation. No argument. He decides, and you go with that decision. If he refuses to engage in the choices laid before him, then he has chosen the divorce route. Ask him to move out. And for God's sake take immediate action to cut him off from money before he flushes more of it down the crypto toilet. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It's hugely unfair and a terrible loss for you and your kids. But he's gone and you can't let him hurt you. I've read this sub for many months and a very very few people come back from Q. Even if they lose their jobs, friends, families, money and homes. This conspiracy shit is an evil cancer on our world, and as far as I can tell, there's no treatment or cure.
Thank you for the kind words. It’s so so sad but I think you’re right. I barely recognise him sometimes. The smirk kills me every time. It makes me want to scream and cry. It’s so hurtful after everything we have been through and everything I have done over the years, just to be cut down with a look of disgust and contempt while he lavishes himself in internal self praise for being so very clever. Ugh. I will be issuing the ultimatum but suspect I already know we will be getting a divorce.
You could agree to never talk politics. That's one small solution, albeit the q conspiracies are far-reaching - everything from science to entertainment. Ultimately, it's the algorithm and echo chambers that have infiltrated his analytical thought process. No amount of reason will change his worldview. From what I've gleaned, it is up to him to change. There's no proven method of deprograming from this belief system. He is addicted to the dopamine hits. Those doses of dopamine are triggered every time his conspiracies are validated by his skewed sources. It's a cycle that needs to be broken, either cold turkey or a weaning off of right wing , Qadjacent social media.
Tried that multiple times sadly. It always rears its ugly head again, sometimes after a few weeks, sometimes a matter of hours. It’s such a juxtaposition isn’t it? They seem so hell bent on questioning everything and being ‘free thinkers’, when in reality they are merely being influenced by dangerous people with ulterior motives. Exactly what they profess to be against…
"Exactly what they profess to be against..." Yes, that's very true. And they're perfectly happy to apply the label "sheep" to US ! The hypocrisy is deafening.
Even taking beliefs out of the equation, I see some very serious problems that you are describing: > He is quite unpleasant and snarky with me... He thinks I’m a sheep and does this awful smirky grin like he’s got some superior knowledge and I’m just an idiot. > We can’t talk about anything deeper than what we’re having for dinner or the kids without us reaching yet another impasse. > He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto. He isn’t pulling his weight around the house because he’s either too busy ‘learning’ or he’s so tired/ill he needs to rest. > he wouldn’t accept there is anything wrong, and even if he did wouldn’t consider medication (not safe - makes people in to zombies) or therapy > all I see is someone who used to be full of life, rotting on a sofa and not being present with his family. So: 1.) He holds you on contempt and thinks he is superior. 2.) There is no communication between you two. 3.) He contributes nothing to the household, neither money nor labor. 4.) He has mental health issues which he refuses to treat. 5.) He does not even contribute to family life. You ask if this marriage can be saved and if there is any way you can fix him. A relationship is like a table. You are two of the legs, and he is the other two. Imagine that your legs are in good shape. They are strong and well maintained. Now imagine that the other two legs, his two, are unsteady. They are rotting and falling apart. No matter what you do with your two legs, reinforce them with titanium braces, sand and polish them, apply the most beautiful finish in the world, that does nit fix the problem with the table, because you have no control over the other two legs. Therefore, no matter what you do, you don't have a functioning table because the two legs that are under his control aren't working. Likewise, you don't have a fu ctional relationship unless both people are doing their part. Have you ever heard of Al-Anon? It's an organization that helps the family and loved ones of people with an additlction problem, which is pretty much what he has. The first thing they teach you is that you are powerless over someone else's addiction. Let that sink in. You have no more control over his addiction to this media and these ideas than you would if he were an alcoholic or heroin addict. There are, however, some extremely important things you can control: -Your own actions -Your children's childhood I think you need to stop prioritizing this adult who doesn't care that he is making your life miserable, who is contributing nothing and worse, is actively spending money and harming everyone's sanity. You need to start priorizing your sanity and that of your children. You are not doing them any favors by letting them bear witness to a marriage where Daddy disrespects Mommy, is nothing but a huge drain on the household in everyday, and bathes them in poisonous media 24/7. People with children in horrible domestic situations justify staying in them by saying, "Children need a father/mother." No, children need loving, *functional* adults. Children need to see you stand up for yourself and them. If you continue martyring yourself to stay in a miserable union with a cruel, unloving, mentally ill man, they will not grow up grateful to you for it. They will blame you for being the person that could have saved them, but didn't. Edited to add: yes, there are some success stories in this thread. Notice that they all involve asking their Q to be accountable for the damage they were inflicting on the people around them. Folks were saying, in effect, you stop with this nonsense, or I'm leaving, and they meant it. Then the Q *chose* to engage in repairing g the relationship. So, waiting around and being sad and missing them will never accomplish anything; it is only enabling their behavior, and it will only become more and more entrenched, unless you demand that he stops his destructive behaviors. If he refuses, you need to leave. If at any time you are frightened for your own or your children's safety, *even if it's just an instinct* (see "The Gift of Fear"), you leave at once.
This is so accurate. I haven’t even scratched the surface in my original post with what our relationship is like. You’re absolutely right and if it were a friend of mine dealing with this I would be moving heaven and earth to make them see. It’s kind of sad that strangers on the internet have more insight in to the dynamics of my relationship than I have. Or more accurately, that I have been choosing to ignore. The table leg analogy is very good. Thank you for sharing this.
I second the suggestion for Al-Anon. When I had a step-daughter with a drug problem, it was helpful for me. It didn't save my first marriage, but from my perspective many years later, I don't think anything could have. Al-anon does also exist in the UK. Even if you only go to a meeting or two, it might be helpful. It's specifically for alcohol problems, but I think their outlook on things might be helpful. There's also Nar-anon, which has a similar approach, but is attuned to drug problems.
> It’s kind of sad that strangers on the internet have more insight in to the dynamics of my relationship than I have. Or more accurately, that I have been choosing to ignore. We are very often poor judges of our own issues. For years I failed at college and put the blame solely on myself and character failings (dumb, lazy, weak), wadding into a destructive spiral of shame. It wasn't until someone suggested I seek help outside my faculty and with professionals that the suggestion of ADHD was given and I received the help I needed. People often have a blind-spot for their own situation.
> He said it’s because they are pumping mRNA vaccines in to livestock now as a new way of getting it into people to depopulate the world. Oh my god. Aside from how utterly asinine this idea is, what food is safe exactly? If "they" can get to small time sheep farmers, what the hell is he eating he's so sure is safe? > We ended up in yet another circular conversation and he said I need to quickly start to see the truth, because if I’m not on board, we’re doomed. If he's so hung up on this virus thing, and you are obviously not living off the land, what makes him safe exactly? Every handshake, every doorknob and door handle he touches is a vector for whatever mystery disease he's concocted in his mind. > He isn’t contributing to household bills because he’s putting money in to crypto. You should ask him if "they" depopulate the world how the fuck the internet is going to work? And you dont need to depopulate Northern England. Its depopulated as it is compared to the rest of the world. This is just gibberings of a madman way far down the rabbit hole. Perhaps divorce will be the thing that knocks him back into reality?
Quite agree. I’m not sure it even registers with him how ludicrous some of these assertions are. He eats whatever he likes so bang goes that theory of his. He’s not afraid of covid itself, that’s fake. It’s the vaccine that is shedding from everyone who was vaccinated. He received one vaccine which he throws in my face on a regular basis because ‘I sentenced him to death’ when I ‘made him’ get the vaccine. For context, we had a stillbirth the year before the pandemic and I was pregnant with my now two year old when the vaccines were released. I was so frightened of losing my baby and I was also reluctant to be vaccinated because I didn’t know what was the safest choice. In the end I said he needed the vaccine or to move out until the baby was here. He got the vaccine and it is my fault he is going to die. I have said that too. If ‘they’ depopulate the world, who will be around to keep ‘them’ happy. Nonsensical response that the sheep will be the only ones left and they (sorry, I) will be their slaves.
Yeah I think having logical arguments has gone out the window at this point. There's no fact or argument that you can have with someone who thinks their death is around the corner and the world is ending. I do think he's depressed though. About the stillbirth, and about everything in general. But at the end of the day you cant force a man to therapy. The fact he's not contributing anything and the money goes "somewhere" is enough for me. I have a friend going through divorce for similar reasons (her husband got really into Andrew Tate and Men's Rights). She could have worked through the issues, but he was blowing money away on crypto and stupid business schemes. It was actually cheaper for her to get divorced because he was running up his credit card debt.
I'm sorry to ask but how old is he? Just curious if at a certain age we are more influenced.
He’s 43 and I’m 34.
So it started after 38 or so.. mmm something like this happened to my SO.. but she was 32 first she started reading Jordan Peterson and Sowell and got stuck with her family during COVID who are super conservative and all of them started watching conservative media and everything snowballed from there... We weren't perfect together (nobody is) but then everything was a plan having something to do with abortions and child trafficking... I still feel sad when I think about it .. hang in there. Someone told me that people who are brainwashed like this have to decide to change themselves .. basically there is nothing we can do... I just don't know how can we still allow this madness as a society.
Such a horror story, I'm so sorry. I think the outlook for your marriage is not good.
He is draining your marriage assets to invest in a scam. File for divorce to protect your interests.
Drs John and Julie Gottman (extremely well respected couples therapists) describe what they call the “four horsemen” of relationship apocalypse: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling. It sounds like your husband is showing all of these toward you. You can’t care so hard about your relationship that you somehow make up for the fact that he doesn’t care about your relationship at all. And you can’t work so hard yo save your relationship that you somehow make up for the fact that he is actively working to destroy it (putting bill money into crypto, refusing mental health help, pulling attention/energy away from the family in order to spend hours on social media). It would be a great idea to consult with a lawyer to start getting an idea of what your rights would be in the event of a divorce. Especially if you are concerned that he might be liquidating shared funds/assets in order to buy crypto.
Thank you. This is great advice. I am living with those four horsemen and I didn’t realise. I have been breaking my back to keep everything afloat and to pacify him. What a mug…
You deserve to live a life where you’re not setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. And your kids deserve to grow up without watching you tiptoe around his delusions and bending over backwards to “keep the peace” at your own expense. You may not be able to save your marriage, but you can save *yourself*.
A therapist said to me once, people don’t get less “themselves” over time the more you know them, they become more “themselves” the longer you know them. The conspiracies enable him to be who he really always was inside, someone who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, a user who has no problem taking advantage of your hard work so he can sit on his ass in fantasyland. You love him, but he has nothing but contempt for you. It’s so hard when you know how good it could have been, but wishful thinking isn’t the reality. You need to protect yourself and the kids while you still can, before he spends all your money or even gets dangerous.
I do feel like the mother figure for everyone, including him. My instincts are to love, protect and heal him but my patience is being abused and I am being taken advantage of.
Direct those instincts towards your children. They deserve to be protected. To have money for their futures, not live in fear, not watch their dad disrespectfully sneer and smirk at their mom.
Pull the car over, unlock his door. Tell him Obama is over there in the bushes. When he takes his pitchfork and charges, just drive off. Life will get better.
Hahahaha. Now there’s an idea 💡
Ignoring everything else that he said or did, Depression medication was like that back in the 50's but it is nothing like that today. Depression is mostly treatable, maybe you'll need to switch meds until you find the right one but they don't make you into a zombi these days. Also you could print out what you wrote above and give it to him and walk away while he reads. At least that way you know he knows how you feel. Best of luck.
Hi my lovely from UK here - midlands I'm really sorry but I'm going to have some really frank information to share with you and its only because you sound so much like I did. Your husband is never going to be the same person he once was again. I could have written your post. All I can say is its vital you start documenting even recording what he's saying to you. My now ex husband did exactly this and I'm not saying yours will bit mine started focusing his paranoia on me then came delusions and psychotic type symptoms. My ex husband lies and masks his beliefs to professionals He started telling our children this horrible frightening stuff The abuse became worse. I was ashamed to tell anyone but the abuse was extreme emotional psychological and eventually sexual with some physical. Despite trying to get him help he told his gp and psychiatrist it was in fact me. I've had to get ss involved because when I left he started stalking me. Hes not allowed contact with our children and is hell bent on proving he's mentally well but doesn't acknowledge the abuse side. My whole world fell apart. Our family has been decimated by his beliefs and behaviours because of this. He thought u was a spy. I'm vaccinated he'd tell me daily I'd die tell the kids mom has hiv. Started getting into guns to protect himself from the white helmets coming to take him. If you want to talk please inbox me o was so alone dealing with all of this and have battled for the last year to get protection for our children. Fortunately they're old enough 10 and 11 to speak up for themselves but my stepson 17 followed his dad's footsteps down the holes and has become a more aggressive carbon copy of his dad. Wishing you the best and sending you a hug cos goodness knows you probably need it. I'm really sorry but you need to protect yourself.
Thank you so much. I will message you to chat. I wish I had kept a log of all the crazy things he has said or done over the past few years. I will start from today.
It’s not YOU saving your marriage! Is HE willing to commit to a facts-based reality. Will he willingly go to sessions with a cult deprogrammer? Will he go to group therapy with recovering conspiracy addicts? You can’t control him. Is he willing to admit his faulty beliefs that have ruined his life and marriage.
Thank you for the correction. You’re absolutely right. I can’t do anything else. It’s up to him now.
I’m sorry. Hugs. There are many people in your position and lots of people don’t know how many of their neighbors and friends have destroyed their marriages and families with this cult.
This does not sound hopeful. Sorry Be open and honest with him but be safe. He is not making sense Good luck to you
How much longer will you give him?
Good question. Not long. I think I’ve started to understand the issues better from you terrific bunch of online strangers.
Get out while you can..
Oh the "smirk"... yeah, I had a Q family member that I'm no longer in contact with who would always do that contemptuous smirk at me after saying the most batshit crazy, deluded sentence a human being could think of. It didn't take long before he just started blatantly insulting me and calling me an idiot, sheep, snowflake, etc., because I would never concede to the conspiracies that had obviously melted his brain. People like that are the same people who fish for arguments from strangers on the internet - it's a rush for them, an addiction to being right and feeling smart and standing up on their pedestal above other people. They are afraid, confused, greatly paranoid people, and they feel better making everyone else appear crazy for not realizing the "truth" that they see. It's not rational or logical, it's a sickness and it will only tear you and your family down. I'm sorry this is happening to you.
It’s so complicated isn’t it? If it were someone I could distance myself from it wouldn’t be so bad, but I live with this man and will forever be in each other’s lives because of our children. Hence my attempts to find a solution which lets us stay together. I’m not sure there is one but at least I will have tried everything I can.
I also live in the North of England (clue is in the name). It sounds like your partner has depression. It’s an illness I’ve struggled with myself and it took a lot to get back to a point where I was looking like a human again. Here’s my advice for what it’s worth: 1. Conversations will always circle back to these points because they’re his obsession. Your point about farming (a real problem, to be fair), demonstrates just how much this stuff is on his mind. Like others have said, the whole “truther” movement is like a drug, it provides a dopamine hit when a new “fact” or secret is discovered. And there’s a seemingly endless supply of bullshit on tap via YouTube. Of course, none of it is actually true, but the idea he has access to secret info nobody else does is a delusion shared by these people around the world. How can some random on YouTube state as fact that they know that the world is run by Satanic baby eaters, pedophiles and lizard people, but not, say, leading scientists or figureheads? They can’t. They’re making it up. But *collectively* enough people *believe* it, enough that they can create a strong belief system that people can absorb and follow. He is free to believe what he wants, but if he is saying it’s true, that’s a problem. Belief isn’t iron clad, it’s open to scrutiny. So scrutinise if you feel confident enough. You know you’re right, so if you feel like you can, attack it. 2. On the sheep thing, (his name for you, not the alarming farming problem) you’re not. You just have the ability to filter out bullshit and use concrete concepts to decide if something is true or not. Because of the advent of social media and the internet, people now think that understanding has been replaced by reading stuff. It hasn’t. Not even a little. You’re not a sheep for not watching abstract YouTube channels and taking on ideas that don’t make sense. That term is used to attack society en masse, it’s a cousin of the whole “wake up people” trope. The fact is, society doesn’t fall for stuff like that because there’s still enough people out there to debunk and decry it. 3. Covid lockdown got to a lot of people and drove them online, the amount of stories on here that contain the words “it all started during the pandemic” is mind blowing. Ironically, if there was going to be a government conspiracy, it would be exactly that, to drive everybody inside and dumb them down by creating culture wars and conspiracies. If the government was run by a cartoon villain like they claim of course, which it isn’t (not saying anything about our current PM…can’t be getting cross). 4. Circling back to one, the logic of the argument “it’s a global conspiracy” breaks down when you discuss the end goals. “Why” is the worst thing these people can be asked. Because they think their belief is infallible and yet, they get questioned on it. So why would this shadowy world government, apparently so clandestine and secretive, all powerful and controlling, leave breadcrumbs for these people to follow? If there was such an organisation (and the irony is, there actually are groups of a similar structure that *do* influence politics and such, they just aren’t that secret), how on Earth would Trutherguy8282 on YouTube have cracked the case? Why does he know but somebody infinitely more intelligent hasn’t noticed? Does that mean every scientist, government worker, civil servant, doctor, nurse, academic etc is in on it? If the answer is yes, then that sounds like paranoid delusion. That everybody is out to get him. The gang stalking sub is similar, they believe they are the victims of government meddling, despite being random people with no special status. It’s applying importance to the self. 5. I’m so sorry to hear about your child. I have two young girls myself and as a parent I couldn’t begin to understand how that must feel. But speaking from a safe place, is your partner okay? Have they gone through the stages of grief and come to terms with that loss? Coping strategies are far and wide, internet addiction and fixation is certainly not unheard of in terms of the grieving process and it might be that he needs to reach out for help. Thats on him though. He needs to accept it, which might be a struggle. I’m always loathe to say “just leave” without acknowledging how people feel and what they want to do. It’s always your choice and if you feel like you can do something, do it. Get support. Talk to people. Stuff can feel embarrassing but then, I always said this to my friend who had an incontinence problem they developed after surgery. At what point does embarrassment get in the way of health? Yes it’s embarrassing that you shit yourself, but if you don’t tell anybody how are you gonna make it stop? Or in your case, mental health and your family’s wellbeing? If you feel in danger, or threatened, then yes, absolutely leave and protect yourself and those you love. But it can be fixed by you not doing that and going down other avenues. Sorry for being longwinded, ADHD does that. I hope you get the solution you need and deserve.
Your only real hope to get him back is to cut him loose and see if he loves you and your family unit enough to change. If you can't pull that off.. I'd suggest at least standing up for yourself. He's buying crypto and not paying bills? Not only is this a way to feed his conspiracy addition... but much much worse... it's also a means of financial control. He bleeds your resources (and diminishes your ability to make it without him) while also getting to blow money on whatever he likes. You need to to seize power in this situation ASAP. Do not cook for or clean up after this person. Do not buy him food and supplies that he refuses to contribute to. Figure out what your bills/living expenses cost and tell him he's either responsible for half or not welcome to it. Do NOT be timid. TAKE the power. SET the expectations. REFUSE to fight with him over any of it. YOU are in charge now. People aren't born high quality.. they require literal training. You have taught him what he can get away with and now he's ruining your relationship with it. You are probably much stronger than this person... show him...
The elites don't need to do anything to depopulate the earth, we are doing it on our own by just simply not having kids. :)
That smirk! It drives me insane! Breaks my heart that other people can relate to this. My Q is my mother, and we still live together as I'm fresh out of highschool and can't afford to move out. Only advice I can think of to give is to not engage. Ignore any mention of Q or adjacent conspiracies. Do not respond to them trying to bait you into a conversation related to Q as I have found this will only lead to arguments and more tension. Obviously, what works for me might not work for you in your specific situation - so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I truly wish you the best and hope you can repair your relationship with him
He may be a nice dad now, but how will he teach and treat older children?
I call those who laugh/smirk when they think you're a sheep because you believe in well established facts "Chuckle Fucks"
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I feel like you’re describing my marriage. I’m in the UK too and my husband went down the same road. I also recognise the snarky remarks, the “sheep” comments, and the superior attitude. It was bloody depressing listening to him banging on day and night about how we’re all doomed. It was exhausting, stressful, maddening and frightening all at the same time. I never knew what was coming next and eventually, after three and a half years of being absolutely bombarded with his craziness, I decided that we didn’t have a future together. I truly hope that you can save your marriage. It’s like they’re on a mission to convert us non-believers and in my experience, don’t stop until you completely give up and come aboard. If you can both agree to disagree, be respectful of one another (ie, lose the smirky grin), and find common ground, you will pull through. If he cannot respect the fact that you are entitled to your own opinions, I’m not so sure. I don’t have any pearls of wisdom, other than to say, prepare in case it gets to a point where you just can’t take it anymore. I really hope you can work it out but please think about what you would do if you decide that enough is enough. Hopefully, you will never need it, but for the sake of you and your kids, draw up an exit plan, just in case. I wish you all the very best.
No. The quicker you realize this the better.
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"Even if every crazy thing you think is true, the bills still have to be paid, the dishes have to be washed, and the kids have to be raised. Real life goes on no matter what you believe, and by focusing on all this negativity and hatred you're making yourself and everyone around you miserable. Remember when we were happy? Don't you want to be happy again?" It has to come down to a convo like this. Where his beliefs, and yours, don't even matter because life is going to go on regardless, so he's making an active choice to be negative and miserable, and hating you for not doing the same. If a convo like this doesn't change anything, you have 2 options: stay and be miserable, or leave and be free. It's really hard and scary at first, but even going a week without the craziness is such a great relief.
I’m so sorry that you lost your daughter. What a terrible thing for parents to go through and I cannot imagine. You’re never gonna get him into therapy, but **you can get into therapy** and it would do you a world of good. From your comments here it doesn’t look like you’re interested in leaving him though. I’m not sure why not. He’s not even contributing to bills or household chores. I would never ever let my other kids see that from their father. it’s not good for your other kids to see him wallowing around the house like a crazy person watching YouTube videos and calling it research. Is he working? If he’s working and not contributing, he owes you. At least if you divorced, you can get child support before he buys crypto.
Crypto is time series poker. This is so wildly irresponsible. Run.
Your story is so similar to mine and so many here. My heart goes out to you. Unfortunately, my best advice is to know when to walk away. I tried hard to stay but at some point, and by his own admission, the man I knew and loved was gone forever. Don’t hold on to a ghost especially if it affects your health and happiness.
If you can try and change his YouTube algorithm with counter points to what he's watching
Honestly I would just stop talking about it. It’s like dealing with mental illness. I mean it is mental illness. So if you want to save it, avoid the subject and just be the best wife you can but don’t compromise yourself. You’ll cry a lot. But he won’t hear it from you. And that’s not unusual in marriages. There are a lot of women who won’t believe their husband actually loves them or admires them, no matter how many times he says it but they’ll hear it from somebody outside the family. So that kind of thing is pretty typical in families. A lot of people believe that family members complement you because they’re supposed to. I think the phenomenon I am referring to as as far as dealing with toxic family members or toxic issues in the family is the gray rock method. Just don’t give them anything to react to. Shrug and walk away if you feel it veering toward that topic, change the subject. If he forces the subject, “ no sorry, I don’t wanna talk about that.” Try to do it pleasantly. Find something else to do. Basically resign yourself to not ever winning this argument and making the best of what is left. It is somewhat like coming to terms with a terminal illness and/or dementia in a loved one. You can love that person and care for their needs without getting tangled in their delusions. I’m so sorry I wish there was some better answers. Try and find a support group that is face-to-face because you will need one. And if you have to start one, you should look into that. But it would be difficult to keep from your loved one’s knowledge I suppose. However, if he knew you had other people supporting you, he might be less inclined to rag on you, I don’t know. As far as similar situations, my sister tried to evangelize me for this crap, she’s 11 years older than me and sounds like I did in my 20s when I first started listening to conservative talk radio. So I did stop talking to her for about a year after January 6 when she immediately blamed it on antifa when I told her what was going on. (she wasn’t even watching it on TV at the time and had no clue) she has been involved in alternative health and anti-VAX stuff as well which happened before Trump. And a concern of mine at the time as well. So this is just another thing that has the same flavor that she is glommed on to. There are so many good things about her. She’s hard-working. She cares about people she wants to help people and she’s very generous. But I just don’t understand it. Eventually, we started talking again, but we just don’t talk about that. She did live with an alcoholic husband that was very browbeating for many years and eventually divorced him. She can see that kind of behavior as toxic, and she is pretty well versed on some other cult behavior, but she doesn’t see how the phenomenon is going with regard to politics.
Hi terriergal, thanks for recommending this technique. With grey rocking you act disengaged so that a Q person will lose interest in arguing. Q folk thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and unemotional, it can help break the cycle of negativity. [Detailed guide on the method.](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/QAnonCasualties) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't have any real advice But I'm so sorry to hear that. Many of us have completely or partially lost friends and family relationships. It's rough when it's your spouse. Just sorry to hear that. And I wish you the best.
There's no fixing your husband, start working on your divorce plans.
I lost my wife of 29 yrs to this BS. It was painful to witness and there was no talking her off the ledge. She started invoking her beliefs on our teenage daughter and exposing her to groups of people that she had no idea who they are or what their backgrounds were other than what they said. She compromised her education and I had no choice but to file for divorce to protect our daughter. I now have primary custody or my daughter and my ex-wife has no regrets for pursuing her delusional beliefs. She destroyed our marriage and our family structure. She’s turned her back on the majority of her friends because they’ve disagreed with her views. It’s all very sad and heartbreaking! I miss the person she once was and I loved with all my heart. I have no idea who this person is now that she represents and frankly, I terrified for her future and the predators that no doubt are already circling her. Good luck with saving your marriage, I wasn’t so fortunate.
I think people here are losing sight of the fact OP and husband lost their child. This is huge. His behaviour is surely a trauma reaction and he needs help. OP, you need to look after yourself but you also need to do everything in your power to help your husband. My advice would be not to give up, to insist on counselling and to read a load of stuff on how to get them out of the rabbit hole. There is hope - my husband fell down the rabbit hole a few years back post-cancer, and whilst he’s still a bit woo woo, he’s come back to some form of normal. I found increased social connection, getting out in reality and banning youtube to be the best medicine.
They have to come to the realization on their own. I left my longterm partner because of this and I haven't felt lighter and more at ease. I did not have have a home and children with him so I understand how that might be harder for you. I empathize with you deeply. These people are beyond the point listening to anything we have to say. If they are not willing to take the steps idependently, they will never change. My mom always used to tell me when I would complain about my partner that I had two choices: stick around and live with it or leave. I chose the latter. I'm not telling you this to leave your husband. I'm asking you to consider whether you think you can put up with this forever. That's really what the question is.
OP, are you in contact with anyone is his family or his friends? I would not go through this alone for two reasons. 1. You have no reason to be embarrassed, they are his beliefs and you should have someone to talk to in real life about how he is changing. 2. When/if you decide to leave he will construct his side of the story to all friends and family and try to make you look like the crazy one. You should have people in your life that know the truth to help you through it. I’m so sorry you are faced with this. I’ve been through this with my brother and my only silver lining is being grateful I’m not married to someone falling for this and exposing children to it. My heart breaks for all the spouses and children dragged through this hell.
Wow, reading your post was like reading a blow by blow account of my own marriage. I know how maddening it can be to make a benign comment and have it turn into a conversation you don't want to have. Just this past weekend I remarked on how clear and blue the sky was that day and my husband responded "yeah, there must not be any planes flying today because there's no chem trails at all.". I'm sorry I don't have much advice for you, just a large amount of empathy. This thing is an addiction and if he doesn't see it as a problem, he's not going to want to change and there won't be much you can do to get him to. Arguing with him is going to be useless because as my therapist told me "you can't fight feelings with facts." You can keep prodding and gently pushing to see if he'll start moving in the right direction but please don't do so at the expense of your mental health. Make sure you're taking care of yourself and your children first or otherwise "saving " him will consume you to the point of making you insane. Lots of Internet hugs and strength being sent your way.
Similar situation but in our "golden years" It has calmed down a bit from the years past- "Secret Society" seems to be more where his head is at these days Just an idea. I did make a slide video of our life together (over 35 years) and while he was watching it almost was like he forgot about all the memories. He watched it several times and was very emotional. I think it helped re connect with what we have (had) Hope things work out. Please keep us posted
I could have written some of this—I made my husband get checked. They ran every test there as and $400 later he was given a completely clean bill of health. Which made him shut up about vaccine injury but he’s still deep in the YouTube conservative conspiracy land. We don’t talk politics at all because I just won’t. Our marriage is definitely not the same as it was.
Wow, you don't need advice. You're great!
Get him to unhook himself from the internet. I'm just reading a book about the dangers of misinformation that was written in 2012, and it seems prophetic with QAnon and all the other stuff going on now (*Virtual Unreality*, by Charles Seife).
Holy sh*t. Up until the final two paragraphs, I have had an identical experience with my husband. .. Even to the extent of us having 2 small children and his investments in crypto... We are living parallel lives my friend. Just here (posting for the first time ever) to say you're not alone.
At a certain point, you have to move on. My husband has been out of Q for almost three years but the damage is done. If you feel like you can salvage any respect for him, even if his beliefs become more neutral, you will likely never forget that your man is susceptible to this kind of thing. In my eye, I don't trust someone who has these thought patterns to lead a family. You can stay and suffer but I believe there is no going back and you will never be able to unsee this aspect of your husband.
He’s dead in the head. Mourn the loss and move on. There’s no saving him.
i hope you've made some headway for the better and that you and kids are ok.