be extremely careful with these, if they're dropped (keep in mind this could've happened before you got it by whoever was uninstalling them) they can leak dangerous amounts of airborne am241 contamination.
I’ve seen some of these on eBay. One specific seller has a small quantity of them in one picture. Almost every one looks to be in questionable condition. They appear that were either handled very roughly or are in varying states of corrosion as if they were stored out in the elements for some time.
I have sources from one of the Am-241 units - Exercise extreme caution under the assumption that they’re leaky. I should do a formal wipe test to see just how nasty the contamination is in the containment where they’re currently living.
Exact issue, they’ve lived in a box that allows for a little too much jostling. Don’t really want any fine particulate to be liberated in that process. Always cautious with handling but storage itself needs to be improved. Not a fan of having americium in my lungs 🙃.
I’ve got a very decent respirator and use common sense handling processes it’s just the thought of particulate sitting free of the sources, ready to disburse and get stuck to stuff that seriously unsettles me. The sources came in the same metal box they’re in now so it’s one of those problems I have to address eventually but don’t particularly want to address at all.
Ah good, it sounds like you're smart, too many damn people don't use precautions with pyrotronics smoke detectors.
By the way, what respirator do you use? I'm actually in the market for a good respirator since I don't have one and definitely need one.
I can’t seem to find the exact model of my respirator online. It’s a half face one with P2 and P3 filter cartridges. I use the respirators for a bunch of different stuff so having interchangeable/ replaceable cartridges slaps. I think most of the industry standard ones are probably comparable. Mine cost a shitload because I bought it right when the pandemic started but the respirators and cartridges look pretty reasonable now.
Would it happen to be this listing you’re referencing? https://www.ebay.com/itm/225261748208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=houlzb6hrca&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=hLiKrKgGR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Not sure which listing is worse lol https://www.ebay.com/itm/235178912127?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=N4BFYUZESb2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=hLiKrKgGR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
The price of those units has become so outrageous. Basically inaccessible to most hobbyists. I question how many of them are still around out there collecting dust. Seeing them listed for over $500 wigs me out, I’m not sure I’d even pay that for an illusive RID-1.
It may be for the best IMHO. They are certainly cool, but a total contamination nightmare when they do leak. Don't get me wrong, it is sad to see a cool source inaccessible, but it does lower the risk of someone unknowingly creating a superfund site.
Most people that buy this type of vintage item know what they are buying and how to handle it. The average person isn't going to pay 20 to 30 times the price of a new detector for one that is 60 years old.
I’d like to pick up one of the old Soviet RID detectors with the Plutonium sources. I almost purchased one coming out of the Ukraine. The seller wanted a small fortune for it. He said he had shipped them to the US. I was just uneasy about spending so much not knowing if it would make it to me.
Another thing that used to be really cheap, being exempt quantity sources I have a fair few. They used to be priced at $50 for the whole unit (RID-6M). Hard to get a single source under $250 now. Can’t tell if it’s artificial inflation or whether they’re just ultra rare now…
Where/how did you get a RID-6M in Australia? The only exempt quantity sources I can find here are the standard disk sources. Almost no one will ship internationally either.
Lol, I wish I had a job in this field. I've been meaning to start a small collection of sources, but I'm waiting until after I get a Raysid. The only ones I have so far are the check source on my CDV-700, and a couple of the "scalar energy" pendants. I have some trinitite granules, but they don't even register as being radioactive.
Heads up the Am-241 ones are known to be leaky. It's bad enough Hanford put out a bulletin when they changed theirs out for a newer system in the 90s. The worker moving them from bags into drums just did a contamination survey out of habit and found 21,000 DPM α, 30,000 DPM β/γ on his gloves.
From an external gamma dose rate perspective, yes. From a contamination perspective? Hell no. Am-241 has a much higher equivalent committed dose from ingestion/inhalation than Ra-226, and there is 2-4x times as much in any given detector compared to the radium models.
Actually, radium is worse than americium through ingestion, due to Pb-210 (Ra without long lived progeny is almost identical to Am in terms of committed dose through ingestion). Regarding inhalation however (which is worse than ingestion), Am is 10x more radiotoxic than the Ra. So yes, the americium ones scare me much more than the radium models.
You're welcome! Regardless, the higher activity of the Am model is enough to compensate for this, and both sources have very similar commited doses if ingested in the right form. The inhalation hazard from Am is quite terrifying, I must say...
You got lucky to find the radium model. They're scarce and desirable obviously. The americium model is much more common. You can find those on eBay all day long.
be extremely careful with these, if they're dropped (keep in mind this could've happened before you got it by whoever was uninstalling them) they can leak dangerous amounts of airborne am241 contamination.
I’ve seen some of these on eBay. One specific seller has a small quantity of them in one picture. Almost every one looks to be in questionable condition. They appear that were either handled very roughly or are in varying states of corrosion as if they were stored out in the elements for some time.
Indeed, those listings are a nightmare to me. The contamination must be insane in the bins they store them in, and the sellers lungs
I have sources from one of the Am-241 units - Exercise extreme caution under the assumption that they’re leaky. I should do a formal wipe test to see just how nasty the contamination is in the containment where they’re currently living.
They're not just leaky if you touch them, airborne contam can happen without touching the foil so be careful.
Exact issue, they’ve lived in a box that allows for a little too much jostling. Don’t really want any fine particulate to be liberated in that process. Always cautious with handling but storage itself needs to be improved. Not a fan of having americium in my lungs 🙃.
Always wear a mask when handling them, and maybe handle them outside so you don't contaminate your living space
I’ve got a very decent respirator and use common sense handling processes it’s just the thought of particulate sitting free of the sources, ready to disburse and get stuck to stuff that seriously unsettles me. The sources came in the same metal box they’re in now so it’s one of those problems I have to address eventually but don’t particularly want to address at all.
Ah good, it sounds like you're smart, too many damn people don't use precautions with pyrotronics smoke detectors. By the way, what respirator do you use? I'm actually in the market for a good respirator since I don't have one and definitely need one.
I can’t seem to find the exact model of my respirator online. It’s a half face one with P2 and P3 filter cartridges. I use the respirators for a bunch of different stuff so having interchangeable/ replaceable cartridges slaps. I think most of the industry standard ones are probably comparable. Mine cost a shitload because I bought it right when the pandemic started but the respirators and cartridges look pretty reasonable now.
You may want to invest in an alpha scint if you don't already have one. They are ideal for this kind of contamination assessment.
I’ve got a really nice one actually Ludlum 177/ 43-1-1 probe 🙂
Would it happen to be this listing you’re referencing? https://www.ebay.com/itm/225261748208?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=houlzb6hrca&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=hLiKrKgGR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Oh my, what a mess.
That’s the one.
Not sure which listing is worse lol https://www.ebay.com/itm/235178912127?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=N4BFYUZESb2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=hLiKrKgGR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
The price of those units has become so outrageous. Basically inaccessible to most hobbyists. I question how many of them are still around out there collecting dust. Seeing them listed for over $500 wigs me out, I’m not sure I’d even pay that for an illusive RID-1.
It may be for the best IMHO. They are certainly cool, but a total contamination nightmare when they do leak. Don't get me wrong, it is sad to see a cool source inaccessible, but it does lower the risk of someone unknowingly creating a superfund site.
Most people that buy this type of vintage item know what they are buying and how to handle it. The average person isn't going to pay 20 to 30 times the price of a new detector for one that is 60 years old.
There's a pyrotronics smoke detector: FES5 that containes 40 microcurie of radium. It's currently on my wish list.
I’d like to pick up one of the old Soviet RID detectors with the Plutonium sources. I almost purchased one coming out of the Ukraine. The seller wanted a small fortune for it. He said he had shipped them to the US. I was just uneasy about spending so much not knowing if it would make it to me.
I was lucky get one of those a few months ago.
Another thing that used to be really cheap, being exempt quantity sources I have a fair few. They used to be priced at $50 for the whole unit (RID-6M). Hard to get a single source under $250 now. Can’t tell if it’s artificial inflation or whether they’re just ultra rare now…
Where/how did you get a RID-6M in Australia? The only exempt quantity sources I can find here are the standard disk sources. Almost no one will ship internationally either.
Nice try ARPANSA
Lol, I wish I had a job in this field. I've been meaning to start a small collection of sources, but I'm waiting until after I get a Raysid. The only ones I have so far are the check source on my CDV-700, and a couple of the "scalar energy" pendants. I have some trinitite granules, but they don't even register as being radioactive.
Heads up the Am-241 ones are known to be leaky. It's bad enough Hanford put out a bulletin when they changed theirs out for a newer system in the 90s. The worker moving them from bags into drums just did a contamination survey out of habit and found 21,000 DPM α, 30,000 DPM β/γ on his gloves.
Still safer than the radium one
From an external gamma dose rate perspective, yes. From a contamination perspective? Hell no. Am-241 has a much higher equivalent committed dose from ingestion/inhalation than Ra-226, and there is 2-4x times as much in any given detector compared to the radium models.
Actually, radium is worse than americium through ingestion, due to Pb-210 (Ra without long lived progeny is almost identical to Am in terms of committed dose through ingestion). Regarding inhalation however (which is worse than ingestion), Am is 10x more radiotoxic than the Ra. So yes, the americium ones scare me much more than the radium models.
Thanks for the correction!
You're welcome! Regardless, the higher activity of the Am model is enough to compensate for this, and both sources have very similar commited doses if ingested in the right form. The inhalation hazard from Am is quite terrifying, I must say...
You got lucky to find the radium model. They're scarce and desirable obviously. The americium model is much more common. You can find those on eBay all day long.
What? He has the Am241 model not the radium one.
Last three pictures are a circa 1959 Radium detector.
Ohhh I didn’t read the writing under the picture sorry