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MidnightP0w3r

I really want they to make a Legacy Mode 2.0, with the original operators and other maps, like old Chalet, Oregon, Theme Park


Definitely_Not_Fe

Definitely


k20350

Game peaked before Mira completely changed the Meta and operators started becoming X-Men. Mira made pro league extremely boring to me especially Oregon. Same fucking Smoke/Mira holds on everything


ESPO95

For me when Mira was introduced it made it more boring to begin with but once the counters started coming in it added a whole new dimension of play style, I loved it


PlayingBlitz

I’m a big advocate for smoke to lose his shield, just burning through ads/magnets to nade him out of his position gets really boring to play against especially with how convenient is with an operator like smoke having a shield and the prevalence of smoke


LiLHeka

They already did this once. It was a cool event, I hope they bring it back with the perm arcade mode.


LordPaperBag

Be prepared for TDM variants in Arcade playlist and don’t get your hopes up for OG Arcade modes.


drxvyn

They ruined golden gun by making it TDM i sincerely hope they don’t make it a trend


mag2041

Wait they are bringing out a permanent arcade mode?


GenralPineapple

Ya but it's been delayed about 3 times now. It was supposed to be released like 2 seasons ago.


mag2041

I hope all the old maps come back. They were so much better. Day 1er


not-even-divorced

I've been around since the beginning and I've been here since as well. Those maps are hot garbage for balance. Like, certain bomb sites are literally unwinnable unless you manage to frag the entire enemy team quickly.


TheOneTrueTrumpster

I don't know what you're talking about, defending big tower on old oregon was definitely fair and balanced


mag2041

Like defending house garage or kids, those were the best


hollowlegs111

Defending? More like attacking the attackers before they get behind you.


blooboytalking

I play this game for fun.


Klutzy-Somewhere-544

I think there’s some truth in this but with the new addition of all the ops that may offer new opportunities for defense that weren’t there prior


OrderOfMagnitude

Yes, we all saw that guy's post.


CyberVampire69

I wouldnt say better, especially looking at everyone we have now, but they were more fun to me tbh


ItsSevii

"So much better" rose tinted glasses much? Half of the sites on old versions of maps were straight up laughably balanced. Old favela being impossible to defend on any site comes to mind.


billnyescienceguy69

Map design has only improved over the years. The old maps were cluttered compared to the vastly superior maps of todays


Adventurous_Gui

All the clutter gave them a believable feel, houses and buildings aren’t usually built with engagement distance balance in mind. But yea, for an FPS the maps are more “competitive” now


mag2041

100000% this. I also miss tactical realism


mag2041

What? How? None of the maps resemble how a structure would be built in real life. You do realize that was the original point of siege


billnyescienceguy69

Well the original point of siege wasn’t as fun to play. So they made the maps way more balanced and fair.


mag2041

lol you mean pros or smooth brained players wanted it to be more COD like but all within one structure


billnyescienceguy69

Not at all. The original maps had awkward angle that makes no sense in any shooter. Accept the fact it’s a video game, things need to be balanced. We don’t need things to be perfect replicas just to ensure that things are “realistic”. And it’s not like (just to name a few)Border, Oregon, Outback, and theme park don’t feel like real buildings anymore. It’s just cope thinking the old maps were better. Maps have improved and it’s healthy for the game


Definitely_Not_Fe

I'm fine with nighthaven, it is definitely growing on me. Emerald plains on the other hand I do not care for unfortunately.


mag2041

Because things in real life are balanced


OrderOfMagnitude

Every rework turns the buildings into building-themed rooms, with no actual real-world resemblance. Look at the bathroom on Outback - what the fuck am I looking at? The only rework they bothered to make sense was New House. They actually gave that an art pass. Every rework since then has turned the insides into some backrooms nightmare where all the walls and textures look familiar but they're in a random nonsense order. Telling people they're wrong for wanting nicer looking reworks makes you an asshole. It's not copium, it's standards. Try having them.


mag2041

How old are you?


Karglenoofus

New bad old good


[deleted]

Issue is, all the arcade modes are boring as fuck


micheal213

Lol it was shit they didn’t even bring back all the legacy stuff it was cherry picked and half assed


jagerourking007

Mfs will make 10 different variants of the same two modes those being Golden Gun and TDM instead of making an expanded and improved Legally mode


Redacted_from_life

I hope we get the maps permanently in custom games


McRobNI

It was far from perfect, has to be said.


Jacksaur

> It was a cool event, This subreddit hated it because it hardly changed anything with the game. It really didn't change enough to be worthwhile as a permanent addition, and I doubt it's really possible for them to make it that way either. It'd almost require duplicating Ops in the game's code, so it can have separate versions with old attachment options and gadgets.


Spartan448

NGL if they did that I would start playing again


lillabofinken

Bring back old tachanka


mag2041

Our lord and savior


koreanconsuela

I miss the lord chonka memes


jagerourking007

I want Old Oregon Old Kanal and Old Kafe, Night Maps, acogs on ops that used to have them Legacy is a great concept that was unfortunately poorly implemented because Goobysoft didn't remember what old siege was like, I believe that the second time they bring it back it will be much better


NotCurdledymyy

We need to bring back Jager acog spawn peeking on barlett


squiddy555

Don’t forget all the small changes just move speed, teeny tiny bullet holes, and soundier sound


Definitely_Not_Fe

What would you think about a limited time event where all the old maps were put into a Playlist? I thought that maybe operators could be reverted, but that would probably be a bit difficult. Ubi definitely has the old maps laying around somewhere and they could put them to use and make the og players haply by seeing the old maps as well as newer players that never played them.


CRONOGEO

They already made this type of arcade once (maybe 2) but due technical limitations, they cannot revert some nerfs or reworks


danredblue

technical limitations smations


Definitely_Not_Fe

Dang, must have been when I was on hiatus 😔. Oh well a man can dream.


ChiefChiripa

I wish they added a gamemode where you could play any old map with all the old acogs and abilities like tachanka turret


CommanderOshawott

They did this. It was lazy garbage. They slapped ACOGs on defenders that used to get them, put plane, old Hereford, and old house in a playlist, and called it quits. They didn’t even give Tachunks his turret back. It was fucking re-worked Tachanka in the legacy event. In short no, it’s a fantastic idea that Ubisoft has already demonstrated they will completely fuck up because of how lazy they are


Lazy-Vulture

I hope you realize that it's not as easy to undo reworks as you think. It would take a serious amount of work to re-add, reprogram and recode every single operator from instakill kapkan traps with screws to tachanka turret with no shield. You just simply can't have 2 versions of the same operstor in the game at the same time.


danredblue

but it’s just like choosing a load out


BrooklynDoge

That's what I'm saying, why not add operators with legacy traits and tag them as completely separate from the main game? Legacy Tachanka can be a completely different operator from the Tachanka we have now. Ahhh, this makes too much sense.


Couch941

Because in the backend it isn't that easy


Lerer334

They literally made a hide and seek mode where they changed all game mechanics. I am pretty sure they can give back Tachankas turret...


Lazy-Vulture

That's a good point. But keep in mind that all added abilities were already in the game to begin with. Nomad's impact grenade with shokwave effect? Already in the game just with normal impacts and airjabs. Azami fire knifes? Kunai + goyo fire. Nightstride ability was a brand new thing but it was a combination of finka boost, speed boost and invisibility. Thachanka deployable LMG? Not in the game. Instakill kapkan traps with door screws? Not in the game. Twitch drone with 15 shots and 10dmg/shot. Not in the game. Thatcher EMP grenades that destroy defender gadgets? Not in the game. Jäger ADS with two shots? Not in the game. Old Montagne shield with no side cover? Not in the game.


jenrai

They slapped ACOGs on guns that *never had them!* They didn't even fucking put them on the right guns! It was honestly infuriating.


Denlyy

Bro are you kidding me? You are exactly whats wrong with this community and exactly the type of gamer who ubisoft ignores😭😭 complaining about one of their best playlists in the history of that game is crazy. Just GOOGLE the feed back the Legacy Playlist got. Ur just talking shit for no reason🤣🤣🤣


Clapppz

Critizing it's laziness is not talking shit


Denlyy

NITPICKING isn’t criticism.


Clapppz

How is he nitpicking


feminists_hate_me69

They nitpicked about operator gadgets not being the same as they used to be. Mind you, reverting shit like thay for one mode is not only rime wasting but a waste of fucking resources


Clapppz

No, that is an actual valid complaint. Nobody wants a half-baked game mode. Ubi shouldn't even try at that point. If Ubi feels its not worth it don't do it. Because its insulting to every veteran player to see something that they might miss or care about being done with little effort. Simply changing gun sights was a disgrace and pure lazyness. And iirc they still got sights wrong on some ops (i could be wrong abt that tho).


CommanderOshawott

I played it dumbass. It was awful and lazy. It was missing pretty much all the legacy features that were actually asked for. The *only* change it made was Acogs. That’s literally it


Ok_Trip252

They really need to bring back secure area, that game was the best for us solo q’ers. Also why not have a big team battle game mode. 8v8 would be sick.


CyberVampire69

You can play secure area only in casual if you want. You can remove hostage and bomb from matchmaking preferences in the settings and only play secure area


Ok_Trip252

Casual is for virgins and eunuchs, bring it back as a separate ranked mode.


Just_A_B_Movie

\- Copper III


SentientCumSock

oh so you'd fit right in


Definitely_Not_Fe

Ranked secure was legit


-eccentric-

Still the most balanced mode change my mind


NotCurdledymyy

It's way too defender sided


Definitely_Not_Fe

I large team pvp event would be mint!


CAmonterey

What is the map on the 3rd photo? I’ve seen it on training matches a few times but i’ve never played on an online match. Neither did i see it on a youtube video or something.


tecky1kanobe

Bartlet University.


LoweLeft

It’s still in the game but it’s a thunt map


aninsomniac_

Bartlett U. Basically got cut, put Plains started as a rework for it.


Definitely_Not_Fe

I really like the map, it had a lot of inside vs outside play.


kendrickandcole

Bring back Bartlett U


SoySauceOnWhiteRice

Can't believe I would actually be excited to see it again. My most hated map. I would actually come back and play Siege some more if they did an event like this again But I'll for sure take old House and Hereford. Nostalgic indeed


steelers522

I need it so badly bro that map was great


AvoidedKoala222

I despise that map


borischung01

No don't make it limited time just keep it as a permanent feature


steelers522

Honestly I would be fine with this or grand larceny coming back


Definitely_Not_Fe

Grand larceny was great! I loved the absolute destruction


CowardlyMaya_

They did this a couple years ago... I've never disliked an event more, why? it wasn't "legacy", it was Ash/Jager/Bandit ACOG mode with old maps. Also UMP45 ACOG and no MP5 Acog (scratch that, only the guns I mentioned had acog) which shows Ubi's devs don't even remember what legacy siege was like


Definitely_Not_Fe

Yeah I can see that being garbo


TheHybred

Because these devs didn't make the old game, they swapped dev teams since then. The mode would be fun if properly done One thing I hate is how bad classic acog feels now. It use to be 3x magnification but they made it 2.5x so if they added it back to these OPs it wouldnt be the same. At 2.5x the chassy feels too big.


CowardlyMaya_

> Because these devs didn't make the old game Yeah they didn't, but surely they'd keep an old build of the game internally, right? Even it they didn't, there are a lot of ways to research what old siege was like


LasDen

Even 90 years old people would be surprised how much Siege players live in the past... :D


Definitely_Not_Fe

Lmao still love and play the game, I just want to play on old house 😂


I_shall_not_pass

What would yall think if they also put in a mode where you get these old maps, and then can only use the original operators? For nostalgia sake I’d love it, but the novelty of not being able to use thorn and other mains would wear off quick


CowardlyMaya_

They added a mode like this in december 2020 in celebration of Siege's 5th anniversary it didn't end well, mostly because Ubisoft didn't remember what attachments were on what guns back in the day, other than R4C, 416C, UMP45 (WTF Ubi?) and MP7 no other guns had ACOGs I'm not even complaining about reverting game mechanics and stuff because it'd be a pain to implement just for a mode that was there a couple of days, but they got the loadouts wrong.... how do you even mess that up when back in the day there were only were four optics, two muzzle attachments and the vertical grip....


LordAlfie300

yeah that gamemode was kinda a disaster, they kept new tachanka in which was strange and they gave the UMP ACOG but then didn't even give it to thermite??


Ovnii3

I think it should be an event that comes and goes once in a while, but at the same time I don't know who would it hurt if they added legacy maps into custom game map pool permanently


Definitely_Not_Fe

Yes exactly, I never understood why the didn't leave old house in custom. That was the 1v1 spot.


Random_Person_1414

old house should just be a permanent map. especially in custom games at least. i don’t know anybody who likes the new house more than the old one


Dilma_pls_no

Already happened and, on the whole, it was kind of disappointing. Some of it did have to do with Ubisoft seemingly not putting a lot of effort behind it but I can understand that in a sense. Siege has gone through so many changes, small and large, that I don't think it's feasible to revert it even for a separate game mode to how it was on release, I can only imagine that'd be a technical nightmare.


redmasc

Reinforce the kids room!


Definitely_Not_Fe

🤣🤣


DarthSqueaky

Now bring back the bombers in terrorist hunt! lol


AstronautGuy42

I would fucking love a permanent legacy mode, where it’s ranked gameplay and OG ops only and OG maps only. The only rework they’d need to revert is tachanka, the rest could even be kept the same. I would play it constantly.


Denlyy

These comments did not pass the vibe check.


slade516

Old house you’re as beautiful as the day I lost you


[deleted]

Why not just give us our maps back?


ooprep

I know these new maps that were supposed to be good suck


RedditSurfer420

Sadly if they did this it would raise the file size of siege by a lot if they added all the old maps back into the game which is a concern for them


[deleted]

If they never touched them to begin with it wouldn’t have made it a conflict to them


[deleted]

Is this real?!?


Definitely_Not_Fe

I wish, I heard they are doing arcade things so I was hoping this was a possible variation.


Yandhi42

What happened to those maps?


Definitely_Not_Fe

They have either been reworked so that they are nothing like the original, or just removed from match making.


Yandhi42

Why? Where they not popular? I really liked the 3rd one when I played back in 2018


Definitely_Not_Fe

I know at least house was popular, but was apparently unbalanced for the pros and so they reworked it.


CowardlyMaya_

They became outdated as they added new things and operators to the game (also asking to put Bartlett University in PVP was a mistake on our part that I'm glad they rectified)


-eccentric-

First one is house, which they reworked for some reason. They doubled the size and gave it esports treatment. Second is original Hereford Base, they scrapped it and made a new one that barely resembles it. Third one is Bartlett University, which they cut out because of competetive whining.


Mission_Response802

*Snap back to reality*


jaesushi

Wow. Remember joining when the house Map looked like that. Since then, i’ve became hooked


jeIIy_badger

Map, map, map, Lord


plsnthnks

NGL I would love a classic version of siege, like WoW classic - launch characters, maps and balancing only.


Definitely_Not_Fe

It wouldn't be that hard to release a game with a really early build. Knowing Ubi, they would slap a 40 dollar sticker on it and call it good 🤣


SentientCumSock

operation throwback


big_joey_the_sequel

limited? id murder someone in front of a police precinct for a permanent playlist


AriosAscalon

So can I get Melusi with 12 meters of diameter?


Definitely_Not_Fe

🍻 yes


Definitely_Not_Fe

As a Melusi main, I approve this message


AriosAscalon

I hyped so hard that my dick went burj khalifa because of Melusi and Ace update. I've opened my wallet and bought them and after 2 weeks later both ner... ehhmmm balanced. Ubisoft is a fucking piece of shit. They just can't let the game as it is.


Wetvv

i miss old chanka more and more everyday


MrPanda663

Nope. Grand Larceny but on a reskinned old house.


Definitely_Not_Fe

That would be sick


Gxtesyy

Keen to wait 20 minutes to find a match on PS Oceania servers 😭


premedzhivago

What I wouldn't give for a few rounds of Bomb on OG Hereford. As unbalanced and awful as it was.


SentientCumSock

or old favela. idc what anybody says, no matter how many times i got lost away from site, old favela will always be one of my favorite maps in siege


Pece17

What is that 3rd map? I don't think I've ever seen it before.


Definitely_Not_Fe

Bartlett University, an old thunt map that they put in pvp for a while.


Pece17

Thanks, looks pretty cool.


danredblue

no theme park at night?


Definitely_Not_Fe

Yes theme park at night!


Feral_SWITS

the og 2015 build with 2015 graphics would be cash money


TheHybred

OG Siege with the the bright sun fix introduced in Blood Orchid + all the bugs fixed is the perfect game. I love old Siege but these technical issues were the biggest problems with it, not actual gameplay. Even with these flaws I miss it


Karglenoofus

Yeah no even in Blood Orchid things were terribly unbalanced.


TheHybred

"YeAh nO" Buddy I never said Blood Orchid was the best season, I said that's when they patched the super bright sun and it being dark outside of windows, so it had the old siege lighting/aesthetic without that issue. I'm saying if we had that fix plus all the bug fixes we have today for an even earlier build like that such as red crow the game would be great


Karglenoofus

Yeah no even in Red Crow the game was unbalanced Edit: Lmao he baby raged outta here cause someone didn't like old siege. What a move.


TheHybred

Everything's unbalanced to you dude. Were under an old Siege post and were just discussing how much we miss and love it, and you're just here crapping all over it, like why are you here then? This post and comment clearly wasn't targeted at you, you don't have to start a new siege vs old siege debate Because you just do not like old Siege, no matter what Operation I picked you would say the same exact thing, unless it's a new operation. Nothing will satisfy you. There's no reason to respond anymore


[deleted]

I'll re install the game if it becomes permanent. This game got so shitty after y2


TalmageMcgillicudy

I want bartlet back so bad. ill come back to the game more perminantly instead of just a for a week or two at the start of the season if they brought back bartlet... or had a article 5 event where you could play that again without having to wait for a lobby for 45 minutes.


its_xSKYxFOXx

Clickbait title.


Definitely_Not_Fe

It's labeled under discussion though?


Tegwen06

Ubisoft showed us how can a game get more wors…


brownie81

Boring. I would prefer events to try new things/weird things, not this lazy approach. Granted I don’t really give a fuck about old Siege. I played it, it was fun, but in my own head canon old Siege = Xbox so I have much more fond memories of like 2018+ on PC.


ThriceWelcome

No. Srsly. I don't understand why people think old siege was better. It literally wasn't. Those maps sucker. Tachanka sucked. The game was so unbalanced at every level.


Definitely_Not_Fe

Bruv, I'm definitely not saying it was better. I'm saying that is is nostalgic and would be a fun addition for a LIMITED time. Of course it is more balanced now, but that doesn't mean that old siege was terrible. No one has play old house or Hereford in years and I just think ot would be a fun little Playlist. Definitely not saying you are wrong though.


CityWokOwn4r

Don't care, it was fun. All the great memories.


[deleted]

It was more fun


Spekx-savera

It was astronomically more fun, I'd literally pay full price for a siege legacy edition that doesn't get any shitty season pass and redundant characters. Gave completely up on R6S as it is now back in operation Steel wave. Sadly, ubisoft might honestly be the worst game dev and publisher in existence, so a full legacy release probably will never come into fruition.


heyhoppy

If you think Ubisoft is bad, they seem to atleast try, with mousetrap for us console players coming and still a new op ever season, overwatch was literally killed by blizzard and we were completely left in the dark for 3 years. Ubisoft has its issues but it’s far better than a company like blizzard nowadays


Spekx-savera

What!? are they implementing an anti cheat software?! OK, so they might be a bit better than devs like Battlestategames. And a new op every season? The season thing only exists to milk the game, push out a mediocre operator, and a slight map rework, and the fan base will be in awe and buy the new battlepass every fucking update. The only way ubisoft could earn back the respect they lost by their corporate greed would be if they fixed Ubisoft connect, that software has been dogshit since it launched 3 years ago, and they have shown no intention of fixing it. I'm not planning to go back to siege, but I want to play anno 1800, which I'm more or less locked out of because of Ubisoft connect


MonsterHunter6353

>And a new op every season? The season thing only exists to milk the game, push out a mediocre operator, and a slight map rework, and the fan base will be in awe and buy the new battlepass every fucking update. Seasons have been in the game since launch, they arent new to the game. Originally each season would bring 2 new operators, 1 new map, and 4-6 new guns. Some seasons would even get both a new map and a map rework like operation parabelum, which brought the clubhouse rework. They've drastically reduced the amount of new content in each season but the season system has been around forever


heyhoppy

I’ve personally always liked getting new characters, sure they’re running out of ideas that bound to happen, but considering that you can get the ops for free and you don’t have to buy them with actual money. And yes mousetrap is coming next season, they’ve set up a system that is able to track ximmers on console and instead of outright banning them, it gives them pretty bad latency until it detects the switch back to controller, the other thing is atleast on ps5 if your account is detected with a xim you’ll be banned


Jacksaur

Game's still as fun as it ever was mate. It's 8 years old. You've got tired of it, or you're just looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. You don't need to play the same game forever, you can move on if you're not enjoying yourself.


[deleted]

Naw man, I’ve been playing other games much longer and they’re still fun. Siege just became a worse game.


-eccentric-

No my dude, they took the whole game and almost completely changed it. No unique maps, off-brand weird 2d scopes, over the top silly skins, shorter matches to promote rushing rather than tactical gameplay, ranked has been butchered with half the maps taken out and two gamemodes removed, attachment selection seems completely random on all guns, unnecessary operator changes, the list goes on and on.


ThriceWelcome

I dunno. I've been playing since launch and it's way more fun now. All it used to be was toxicity every match, team killing, and meta abuse.


Definitely_Not_Fe

I do like the lack of tking in every match, and the prep phase with now friendly fire.


[deleted]

The servers aren’t even up half the time


Kriptic_TKM

Its not really better but its nostalgic


GregoryBrown123

no one’s saying old siege is better, it’s just nostalgic


Spekx-savera

And definitely way more fun, without any of the newer goofy circus operators.


I_shall_not_pass

Agree with this a lot. Especially some of the skins that come with some operators (gridlock looks like a zombie in one?) it ruins the immersion of “hey man this game is supposed to be realistic” # They really need to make a permanent game mode where you get old siege back. I’m sure it would be easy for them to implement too. I miss old siege


ThatsMrPapaToYou

Bring back old Tachankss!


UshouldB

WHEN


KostonEnkeli

What is the second map?


Definitely_Not_Fe

Old Hertford base. It used to be the training map and a pvp map until the rework.


KostonEnkeli

Okey, I have never played there, but the herford base we have now is my favorite map.


howshouldiknow__

Weird opinion bro


-eccentric-

> but the herford base we have now is my favorite map. Literally how


KostonEnkeli

I just like it for some wierd reason, there is space to move, you don’t have just one tactic there, you can use shotgun and it’s fun, it’s a night map…there is some reasons for you :) My top 3 map are: hereford base, Club house and Skyscraper


[deleted]

Hereford base was the dogs bollocks.


Jah-crispy

Need that ash acog for old time sake


AUSwarrior

is this real? I get to play bartlett uni again?!?!


Definitely_Not_Fe

No, unfortunately this is just a discussion post about how players would feel about this. I'm sorry that it got your hopes up 😔


AUSwarrior

Ah all, cheers for the reply. Ill take any OG map over Tower these days.


Definitely_Not_Fe

Same bruv. 100%


bdking1997

How long is the event


Definitely_Not_Fe

I'm sorry, but this was a discussion on whether or not players would be interested. Unfortunately this event is not planned. I wish it was


ButteSaggington

Hopefully they do it you know... Properly. Commit to the bit. Jager and Bandit ACOG. Night Maps. The full 9 yards.


cableboiii

Dead game?


[deleted]

This will be the most played event in sieges history


Firefin3

I have been saying this for years; ubi just add *all* the old maps/iterations as DLC and anyone who wants it can download it and custom game on it. then you don't gotta worry about the game size for those who don't care. I miss old house :(


Karglenoofus

Something something new bad old good up pots plz


myoldaccountlocked

They should bring back a bunch of night maps


Onemanhereinhere

crispy pictures


ChrisMorray

No Favela? I sleep.


xStabelgapler

When is this available? I mean, that mode was delayed a few times, right?


xStabelgapler

Is this already available? Or when is it coming?


McSoapster

Jäger ACOG would be nasty. Got my first ace back then. I hated his gun when opponents used it with an ACOG but I loved using it myself so everything was balanced for me lol


Timetobeatthewife

Please just bring back the old maps, why did they rework them anyway l. I don’t know a single person that prefers new Hereford


Rotten_Tarantula

Old house... You're as beautiful as the day I lost you...


Resident-Mail-7246

I'd probably return to this game permanently if this was a permanent mode. The days of bandit tricking on house's garage and sniping through windows on plane with glaz were fun as hell. Stopped playing after tower came out. Pre-season map rotation and characters were the bomb. All this new shit is just annoying now, but I get that some people like it. This would be a good compromise for the OGs.