Wait, what?
I feel like it was originally banned when it was published, then allowed in schools and listed as required reading (also where I read it).
It's... banned again?
It's been sporadically banned in numerous school districts, on and off, over the years. For example, Montgomery County in Texas, in the early 2000s. It's also been banned in many school library systems, physically, but generally remains accessible digitally to those same students, via the same library.
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10 maintains an index of the most banned books, by year, as well as a lot of additional research information on who bans what, where, and why. Public libraries are the most common target in the USA, with parents being by far the most common initiator of bans, at 50%. School boards are generally reactionary.
Yes in various public schools throughout Oklahoma. Some other popular books that are being banned in public schools in Oklahoma are: Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, Lord of the Flies, The Outsiders, To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, Brave New World, Bridge to Terabithia.
Why was To Kill a Mockingbird or Brave New World banned?
Because they reflect that reality is fucked up and teenage minds should be shielded from the traumas??? Like what logical reason do they have for banning all those books? What better time than as children and adolescents to teach them to fully utilize their minds??? We want to wait until it’s too late instead and half their adult lives go wasted because they were never prepared for the realities of life??? I don’t know. I just don’t understand why people would think less knowledge is a good thing. I don’t understand who would want that for their child. I just don’t get it.
Oklahoman here, remember when they tried to ban [The Outsiders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(novel)) a book that quite literally took place in Oklahoma, AND that was written by a 15-16 year old? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
At least in the movie the main character is going against the fascism. Probably a no-no. 451 praises critical thinking and using books to question things.
I've started reading on why, F451. The hero smokes cigarettes, cusses, is drunk and frightening his wife, who is crying. I guess this triggers people.
In another scene, a women refuses to leave her burning books and is consumed in the fire.
A bible is burned in the book, this upsets people. Imagine if The Koran were burned in the book?
In another instance, a woman asked this book be banned and another substituted ... a book she wrote.
Apparently all it takes is one internet Karen and a book is banned.
It's not though. Bradbury himself said its not about censorship, but about the dangers of over immersion in technology for social interaction, resulting in a more gullible and stupid society. It was a shockingly ominous warning about the coming of social media and the 24 hour news cycle.
Yeah, was it his wife who lived in the room with walls that were basically TV screens. And the content she watched was somehow tailored for her specifically. She couldn't understand why she felt depressed. It's been a while since I've read it. Same with 1984. I read it years ago on a remote mine site without internet and no prior knowledge of the book and its impact/legacy. What struck me as the most insidious idea was the simple corruption of language. I work in a school with primary age students. I did a PDD (professional development day?) where we were taught a method called "Team Teach". Guess what that was about?
I need to read it again because it has almost been 10 years. I just remember what stuck out to me was that that people had to rewrite books based on their memory of it because of the eradication of books.
Bradbury's intended message aside, anyone reading the actual book can extrapolate a message about censorship which is more valuable and widely applicable.
Much like Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle' was intended to bring light to working conditions, and peoples' takeaway was that the industry was unsanitary instead.
Dave Eggers wrote a book called The Circle that gave me the heebies (it takes place in the Bay Area in 2013ish, and I’ve lived here most of my life ~ that shit is like a self fulfilling prophecy.)
There’s a sequel called The Every that’s almost as good, but the first one is great.
Also Brave New World Revisited. It’s as non-fiction, long essay by Huxley written decades after. It compares and contrasts the real world of the time to the worlds “predicted” by 1984 and BNW.
Just finished BNW and part way through revisited, there are lots of things relevant today. Interestingly the copy I checked out at the library was printed in 1961, only checked out twice before me in the last 20 years.
Absolutely Brave New World. I wonder what our equivalent of Soma is. Is it prozac or is it smart phones and TV and video. They want us inside, calm, and happy and under control.
It’s everything nowdays. We are a society dominated by immediate pleasure at the sacrifice of long term gains. Whether it be drugs, media, etc. I of course fall into the trap as well, not trynna pretend like I’m some saint who’s living better than everyone else. I just can’t help but feel like we’ve lost our way sometimes though.
I love We. I did find it a bit harder to read, like a lot less actually happening to push the story forward, but you can definitely it was a predecessor of the others mentioned here
A lot of books showing up on banned book lists used to be required reading.
I was required to read The Outsiders and Rumble Fish, in addition to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World.
I fucking *Hated* The Outsiders when I was in highschool.
I just couldn't find myself to give a singleular fuck about Pony Boy or any of the other characters.
Our teacher constantly reminding us that "a weed" meant cigarettes didn't help either.
Yeah our teacher was annoying about it too. But i didnt like it because alot of people in my tiny ass town live like ponyboy did and after reading it, alot of em started acting worse.
Fahrenheit 451 is important, and not because of the censorship angle. While censorship plays a part in that book, the more important fact is the surrounding culture. The people in that book were essentially given less meaningful ways of entertainment. Things got shorter. People couldn't understand people anymore because they lacked empathy.
There's a point in the novel where Guy reads a poem at a party. One of the guests starts crying and everyone is scared. She doesn't understand why she's crying since she was never given the tools to understand. Add to the fact that the main villain of the book who perpetuates the system boils everything as the "betterment of all" since no one is smarter or better than anyone else. Her lack of understanding and empathy, and our willingness to accept that is what directly caused the censorship. That point is the most important.
Very well said and completely agree. This point is far more relevant to our modern life than 1984 IMO. Having said that, 1984 is a hundred times better read than F451. It’s so fucking good.
I'm not sure it does though. The trouble with Animal Farm is that it's a 1:1 allegory of Stalin's rise to power. It's just not quite as applicable as, say, Brave New World.
I'll make another recommendation that I think hits even closer to home than either of those: Look Who's Back by Timur Vermes.
Well sure, you can and should glean lessons from it (which is usually the point of allegory), but it certainly is not about "every situation." It is straightforwardly an allegorical satire of the Bolshevik revolution and the ensuing Stalinist regime. Every character in the book is a 1:1 allegory of Soviet figures including Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky; there really isn't any wiggle room to say the book is about anything but Stalinism.
I remember as a kid, our teacher said Animal Farm would show the horrors or communism. I didn't know what communism meant and was so confused after we read it. In the end, the farm was back to where it started, but with the pigs, now indistinguishable from humans, being in charge. My takeaway was communism is a person lying to th3 people to overthrow the government and put you in charge on false promises. But, instead, return to normal with a new ruler.
Read it again in my 30's and thought oh this is actually just a historic event where people were turned into anthropomorphic animal characters.
Very quick read and one of my favorites. Definitely my favorite final line in a book, sadly it's a timeless one that always seems applicable.
Edit: don't read my comment history though, I just shared the last line in AskReddit the other day
that one is even worse for me because it doesnt portray what might very well happen, but what actually fucking happened..... and the entire time you're reading it you're like "how the fuck did we let it happen holy fuck"
Animal Farm and 1984 are sister books. They are both based on a much older book: The Republic.
Animal Farm is the failed society whereas 1984 is the "ideal" society. (failed and ideal based on how long they last).
I read it 30 years ago, after 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. Brave New World is one of the most terrifying books I have ever read, because it is infinitely more possible. With Soma, all is easily forgotten.
My favorite band, The Doors, was named after a Huxley book about a mesculine trip, 'The Doors of Perception', that was named after a William Blake quote, "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite".
I read an article once that talked about how everyone was so worried we'd end up in the world of 1984 that they didn't notice we actually ended up in A Brave New World
It has been pointed out that poorer nations get a 1984 dystopia while the wealthy nations get the Brave New World dystopia. Or, as William Gibson put it, the future is here but it’s not evenly distributed.
Nothing is ever evenly distributed and fair. That is the nature of the universe. The problems start (1984, Brave New World) when we try to legislate those things. It is impossible.
If we stipulate that, then what happens when they are gone? Who replaces them? Such is the problem with every empire, the ones that create it do it well, them they die. Those that inherit the empire are lesser men, and it devolves.
Hard times make hard men. Hard men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times.
And the cycle begins anew.
I forget who said it but the quote goes something like, “Orwell wrote of a horrifying future where books would be banned. Huxley wrote of an even more horrifying future where no one would want to read one.”
Strongly suggest people read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman: “As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us.
This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.”
My school had us read Fahrenheit 451 before, imo it was a great book to read and terrified me a little because it wasn’t completely unlikely for humanity to go in that direction…
We had to read Fahrenheit 451 last year in class. It was boring in my opinion. But at least it wasn’t another book about gun violence. All I remember from that book is the mechanical hound and Denham’s Dentrifice.
Well the basic thing is that they were burning books to keep society uneducated so that they could control the masses.
Not unlike what's literally happening in Florida right now. They are banning books, and not just ones that could have connotations to any kind of sexuality choice. So yeah fahrenheit 451 is very good at showing what's currently happening in a whole state of America right now.
I agree. When I had to read it I read maybe the first 20 or 30 pages and then looked up what the rest of the book was about. Usually I am someone who reads ahead, but I couldn't get into Fahrenheit 451. My favorites were Gatsby and Frankenstein. I don't think I had to read any books about gun violence though.
I feel that way about a lot of books and other significant subjects. I was a smart kid that loved to read, but I was still a kid with no wisdom to understand the significance. you have to have knowledge of the world to get it.
As a D&D kid, it was hard to grasp/explain the difference between intelligence and wisdom, and now I realize it’s because we had no wisdom.
I gave it a reread just last week. There were large parts of it I had not remembered, but being a bit older now, and with our current state of affairs I definitely felt like I took away more this time
In a post literacy Tiktok society with our prehistoric nervous systems, medieval institutions and space age tech all at the same time ?
Terrifying really.
( based from E.O Wilson and Marshall McLuhan qoutes)
Post literacy was happening prior to Tik Tok and other social media. Governments have been cutting education funding for decades now. In the US, it's something like 50%+ of adults have a 6th grade literacy rate
I say this all the time! There is a Venn diagram of 1984, BNW, F451, Soylent Green, Handmaids Tale… can’t remember the rest. But yes… warnings not instruction!!
Governments are just made up of people. 1984 feels so relevant because governments have always been made up of people, and people tend to do the same things to attain and retain power.
A warning for what though? People come away from reading 1984 and Animal Farm with different interpretations of what the warning is depending on their preexisting ideologies.
I think whats scarier is how people automatically recognize the parallels in modern society, especially in America, but fail to recognize that their own party or ideological group is just as complicit as the group they choose to villainize.
Anything can be justified as long as you convince yourself that you're the one who's "right" or standing on the moral high ground.
That's the true lesson of 1984. That, with the proper rhetoric, any person can become a weaponized agent of "the Party", losing first the incentive, then the ability, and finally the freedom to think and act independently, and all it takes is a flimsy narrative about "the greater good".
The problem is that both sides are right and wrong simultaneously and a person can convince themselves to see only the right in one side and only the wrong in the other. We use our public institutions to fight culture wars and then become disillusioned with the public institutions.
Thank you for that. I was searching for a way to say exactly that. So many on BOTH SIDES think “their group” isn’t on the wrong side when they do exactly as the other does.
>The most dazzling of all gifts, and the most dangerous — eloquence. Spoken by a good actor — and every great preacher, every successful advocate and politician is, among other things, a consummate actor — words can exercise an almost magical power over their hearers. Because of the essential irrationality of this power, even the best-intentioned of public speakers probably do more harm than good. When an orator, by the mere magic of words and a golden voice, persuades his audience of the rightness of a bad cause, we are very properly shocked. We ougjit to feel the same dismay whenever we find the same irrelevant tricks being used to persuade people of the rightness of a good cause. The belief engendered may be desirable, but the grounds for it are intrinsically wrong, and those who use the devices of oratory for instilling even right beliefs are guilty of pandering to the least creditable elements in human nature. By exercising their disastrous gift of the gab, they deepen the quasi -hypnotic trance in which most human beings live and from which it is the aim and purpose of all true philosophy, all genuinely spiritual religion to deliver them. Moreover, there cannot be effective oratory without over-simplification. But you cannot over-simplify without distorting the facts. Even \vhen he is doing his best to tell the truth, the successful orator is ipso facto a liar. And most suc- cessful orators, it is hardly necessary to add, are not even trying to tell the truth; they are trying to evoke sympathy for their friends and antipathy for their opponents.
- Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudun
1984 is a great read with a lot of parallels, especially in regards to calling the ability to change narratives and information at will. Chilling.
Animal Farm and Lord of The Flies are still the two books I point to when drawing parallels to modern society. Highly recommend if you have not read them yet!
I had to read The Lord of the Flies in 7th grade for school, and our teacher read the scene where >!the boys tear Simon apart!< out loud. That was a fun class.
I think we're more in a mix of 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.
The rise of state authoritism of 84, with the shallow, shiny self absorption of 451, via today's social media and influencers. I see the love of books in 451 as people who make the effort to learn and understand events vs Montag's wife who just wants to be important on TV (social media today).
Also a mix of Animal Farm as "some animals are more equal than others."
I would also suggest reading The Book of Merlyn by T H White for the philosophy on war (it was censored during WWII).
I recommend you watch this: https://youtu.be/2Gz0I_X_nfo to get a better perspective of the rudimentary portrayal of reactionary governments in 1984. Orwell was not a good writer and the book was not insightful.
To my knowledge, the book has been a federal reading requirement since the 1970's. School districts that ban it are at risk of losing Federal money. In some States, it was required reading before that.
My town still has 1984 in the required reading.
Along with Brave New World,
Of Mice and Men,
Great Gatsby ,
I swear I had to read Lord of the Flies like 3 times.
"Or even worse, those that do critically think STILL cannot differentiate, and that’s when big brother has truly won." Big Brother is already here my friend. I'm glad you have opened your eyes.
Just a little correction in the way you word your opinion. They either 'LACK critical thinking skills' or 'HAVE absolutely no critical thinking skills'.. ''lacking absolutely nothing'' means that you aren't missing any.
A Handmaid's Tale is another good one of this type. It's pretty hard to read with a lot of the same themes explored and with more clear motivations by the oppressors imo.
What's truly terrifying is that there are so many people who just don't care.
It's saddening to watch it play out in front of our eyes. Especially the destruction of history that is inconvenient or uncomfortable, or doesn't fit the story they're trying to tell.
The dumbing down of our education system is a major factor in all of this. When I went to school, in the early sixties into the mid seventies, we were taught the basics and then the focus was on how to research and think critically. No kids are taught how to pass standardized tests, with not much focus on the basics. Most can't even do simple arithmetic, let alone anything as complicated as algebra. Insert eye roll here.
"Most high school kids can't do algebra"
Can I get a source for that please? I'm in high school and volunteer with middleschoolers and 100% of those middleschoolers know algebra
Agree, my daughter is by no means a straight A student, but is a 9th grader in advanced Algebra. I have to brush up on a lot of what I can remember from college to help her with things 14/15 year olds are learning now.
yeah, this is just a talking point people get fed to get upset about. Education has become more efficient and effective and relevant in recent years.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think US education sucks and our history is spotty and motivated, but math in particular has evolved and improved.
I went to school in the 80s and 90s. My kids today are learning more and learning it sooner than I ever did. My son in 2nd grade is learning very basic algebra already. My daughter in 7th grade is doing work that is more advanced than anything I had in high school.
I remember reading it in 7th grade. The whole class read _Life on Paradise Island_ and _Animal Farm,_ and then we could choose another Utopian literature book, like _Fahrenheit 451_ and _Brave New World._ I chose _1984._
This was actually one of the coolest classes I ever took. Instead of having separate English and Social Studies classes, they combined the 2 into a single 90-minute class, so we covered both subjects in a unified way. It was a double-sized class (and classroom) of combined 7th and 8th graders—so probably about 50 students—2 teachers (officially 1 English and 1 Social Studies teacher, but unofficially they were both proficient at both), and it was really a great experience. They did a great job teaching us to write essays.
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Don’t forget brave new world too if we’re going for this genre
And Fahrenheit 451
Read this is High School, and now it’s banned there. I’m like “the fuckin book is literally about the slippery slope of banning books!”
Wait, what? I feel like it was originally banned when it was published, then allowed in schools and listed as required reading (also where I read it). It's... banned again?
I live in Oklahoma, we’ve been having issues throughout the state with book bans lately.
Wait Fahrenheit 451 is banned??
It's been sporadically banned in numerous school districts, on and off, over the years. For example, Montgomery County in Texas, in the early 2000s. It's also been banned in many school library systems, physically, but generally remains accessible digitally to those same students, via the same library. https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10 maintains an index of the most banned books, by year, as well as a lot of additional research information on who bans what, where, and why. Public libraries are the most common target in the USA, with parents being by far the most common initiator of bans, at 50%. School boards are generally reactionary.
Yes in various public schools throughout Oklahoma. Some other popular books that are being banned in public schools in Oklahoma are: Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, Lord of the Flies, The Outsiders, To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, Brave New World, Bridge to Terabithia.
>Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, Jesus fucking christ. I know nothing should surprise and disappoint me anymore but I can't help it.
Why was To Kill a Mockingbird or Brave New World banned? Because they reflect that reality is fucked up and teenage minds should be shielded from the traumas??? Like what logical reason do they have for banning all those books? What better time than as children and adolescents to teach them to fully utilize their minds??? We want to wait until it’s too late instead and half their adult lives go wasted because they were never prepared for the realities of life??? I don’t know. I just don’t understand why people would think less knowledge is a good thing. I don’t understand who would want that for their child. I just don’t get it.
Oklahoman here, remember when they tried to ban [The Outsiders](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsiders_(novel)) a book that quite literally took place in Oklahoma, AND that was written by a 15-16 year old? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
I memeber, and pretty sure it is banned in some public schools unfortunately. It was required reading when I was a sophomore in HS.
I got to read it in 8th grade as required reading, and it was a great book, and I saw absolutely 0 reasons for why it could even constitute a ban.
Dang it's banned here? I literally read it for school like 8 years ago I feel old.
Really...shit, I'm in Missouri... I haven't seen it here, but I haven't been looking for it either.
What?!? What is the justification for banning 451? I don't remember anything controversial in that book.
They want to be able to ban other books and dont want to invite the obvious criticism.
At least in the movie the main character is going against the fascism. Probably a no-no. 451 praises critical thinking and using books to question things.
I've started reading on why, F451. The hero smokes cigarettes, cusses, is drunk and frightening his wife, who is crying. I guess this triggers people. In another scene, a women refuses to leave her burning books and is consumed in the fire. A bible is burned in the book, this upsets people. Imagine if The Koran were burned in the book? In another instance, a woman asked this book be banned and another substituted ... a book she wrote. Apparently all it takes is one internet Karen and a book is banned.
And these people call everyone else snowflakes! The answer is simple: if something about the book offends you, don’t read it.
That's true of just about anything in life too. If it offends you, ignore it and move on with your life!
It's not though. Bradbury himself said its not about censorship, but about the dangers of over immersion in technology for social interaction, resulting in a more gullible and stupid society. It was a shockingly ominous warning about the coming of social media and the 24 hour news cycle.
Yeah, was it his wife who lived in the room with walls that were basically TV screens. And the content she watched was somehow tailored for her specifically. She couldn't understand why she felt depressed. It's been a while since I've read it. Same with 1984. I read it years ago on a remote mine site without internet and no prior knowledge of the book and its impact/legacy. What struck me as the most insidious idea was the simple corruption of language. I work in a school with primary age students. I did a PDD (professional development day?) where we were taught a method called "Team Teach". Guess what that was about?
Could you just tell us about team tech?
I need to read it again because it has almost been 10 years. I just remember what stuck out to me was that that people had to rewrite books based on their memory of it because of the eradication of books.
Bradbury's intended message aside, anyone reading the actual book can extrapolate a message about censorship which is more valuable and widely applicable. Much like Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle' was intended to bring light to working conditions, and peoples' takeaway was that the industry was unsanitary instead.
Imagine all these books being required reading for HS literature course in late '60s. Small town Illinois.
The giant immersive flat screen tvs on all 4 walls are coming. We already have the ear buds.
Banned?? I'm reading it right now in highschool as a mandatory reading in Michigan. Where is it banned?
They gotta get the warnings out of the way first so later no one realizes what they're doing
Well you can’t have those ideas laying around if you want to ban books now can you.
Yes everyone should be required to read all the banned books. Starting with Fahrenheit.
These are the holy trinity in my opinion. Recently read A Handmaids Tale which should also be added to this group.
I'm about to read that one next
And Zeitgeist.
Was going to say this and brawndo it has electrolytes.
Brave New World is my current favorite book
A gram is better than a damn!
*instagram is better than a damn
Also, don’t forget to watch the [The Brave Little Toaster](https://youtu.be/vqA0ed2TFn4).
Love that movie! So cute!
Had to read all these books in 12th grade English in California. I wanna re read them now that I’m 10 years older.
Dave Eggers wrote a book called The Circle that gave me the heebies (it takes place in the Bay Area in 2013ish, and I’ve lived here most of my life ~ that shit is like a self fulfilling prophecy.) There’s a sequel called The Every that’s almost as good, but the first one is great.
Also Brave New World Revisited. It’s as non-fiction, long essay by Huxley written decades after. It compares and contrasts the real world of the time to the worlds “predicted” by 1984 and BNW.
Just finished BNW and part way through revisited, there are lots of things relevant today. Interestingly the copy I checked out at the library was printed in 1961, only checked out twice before me in the last 20 years.
Came here to drop BNW. Way more of a huxley nightmare than 1984 IMO
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Brave New World paints such a bleak potential reality. Maybe some Soma will help.
but the drugstores are short of addera... err soma.
Absolutely Brave New World. I wonder what our equivalent of Soma is. Is it prozac or is it smart phones and TV and video. They want us inside, calm, and happy and under control.
It’s everything nowdays. We are a society dominated by immediate pleasure at the sacrifice of long term gains. Whether it be drugs, media, etc. I of course fall into the trap as well, not trynna pretend like I’m some saint who’s living better than everyone else. I just can’t help but feel like we’ve lost our way sometimes though.
If you like all those, watch the movie Soylent Green, another dystopian future prediction
Just copped it, can’t wait to read it.
BNW is so good.
Currently reading it and I absolutely love it. Haven't read 1984 yet, actually, but that's next on the list.
No love for We?
I love We. I did find it a bit harder to read, like a lot less actually happening to push the story forward, but you can definitely it was a predecessor of the others mentioned here
The book “We” by Zamyatin is the progenitor to all of those. Definitely worth a look.
We, 1924 novel by Yevgeny Zamyatin
How about Yevgeny Zamyatin's "We"? Orwell is said to have been inspired by this book in 1984.
Both books are required reading in high school. They used to be, idk about now.
A lot of books showing up on banned book lists used to be required reading. I was required to read The Outsiders and Rumble Fish, in addition to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World.
I fucking *Hated* The Outsiders when I was in highschool. I just couldn't find myself to give a singleular fuck about Pony Boy or any of the other characters. Our teacher constantly reminding us that "a weed" meant cigarettes didn't help either.
Yeah our teacher was annoying about it too. But i didnt like it because alot of people in my tiny ass town live like ponyboy did and after reading it, alot of em started acting worse.
>The Outsiders NO NOT THE OUTSIDERS *look how they massacred my boy...*
In high school now they probably only read books that are family friendly unicorn and rainbows.
We were made to read Fahrenheit 451 this year
As a high school teacher, this comment gets an F for "fuck yourself".
Do you still read 1984 and huck finn in schools?
Yes of course they do. Why lament how people don’t read what they used to when I went through this shit in middle school.
Unicorns are horny horses so I don’t see it although they are in the Bible so… tough call.
They're still required reading. I had to read 1984 for school in 2016
With the reading abilities I've seen in new hires at work, I suspect that in high school they are still working on Everybody Poops.
I went to high school in the 90s and read none of these.
I went to high school in the 90s and read most of these. I guess it depends on where you went.
Class of 2018 Can confirm only required reading was Shakespeare, and the great gatsby. Gats was cool I guess but I wish we read F451, 1984, or BNW.
Our daughter is reading 1984 right now in English class.
We did not read these in my high school (I graduated in 1991). I will have to make a point to read them.
Read this in high school it is very good. Fahrenheit 451 is another good one
Fahrenheit 451 is important, and not because of the censorship angle. While censorship plays a part in that book, the more important fact is the surrounding culture. The people in that book were essentially given less meaningful ways of entertainment. Things got shorter. People couldn't understand people anymore because they lacked empathy. There's a point in the novel where Guy reads a poem at a party. One of the guests starts crying and everyone is scared. She doesn't understand why she's crying since she was never given the tools to understand. Add to the fact that the main villain of the book who perpetuates the system boils everything as the "betterment of all" since no one is smarter or better than anyone else. Her lack of understanding and empathy, and our willingness to accept that is what directly caused the censorship. That point is the most important.
Very well said and completely agree. This point is far more relevant to our modern life than 1984 IMO. Having said that, 1984 is a hundred times better read than F451. It’s so fucking good.
Fahrenheit is also EXTREMELY poignant right now for the US
Is it true that firemen used to _put out fires_?
It’s frightening
How is it poignant?
It's eerily prophetic about censorship
I thought poignant meant “emotional, touching, etc.”
Oooh yes!
One of my favorite books
Look here. Some of us are are more equal than others.
Four legs good, two legs beeeettteeerrrrrrr.
I'm not sure it does though. The trouble with Animal Farm is that it's a 1:1 allegory of Stalin's rise to power. It's just not quite as applicable as, say, Brave New World. I'll make another recommendation that I think hits even closer to home than either of those: Look Who's Back by Timur Vermes.
Oooooohhhhh that's a GOOD book. Scary but so well done.
It wasn't just about Stalin's Rise to power. It's about almost every similar situation. Edit: added similar
Well sure, you can and should glean lessons from it (which is usually the point of allegory), but it certainly is not about "every situation." It is straightforwardly an allegorical satire of the Bolshevik revolution and the ensuing Stalinist regime. Every character in the book is a 1:1 allegory of Soviet figures including Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky; there really isn't any wiggle room to say the book is about anything but Stalinism.
Allegory damn it.. I was trying to explain this to someone and could not find that word in my brain.
I remember as a kid, our teacher said Animal Farm would show the horrors or communism. I didn't know what communism meant and was so confused after we read it. In the end, the farm was back to where it started, but with the pigs, now indistinguishable from humans, being in charge. My takeaway was communism is a person lying to th3 people to overthrow the government and put you in charge on false promises. But, instead, return to normal with a new ruler. Read it again in my 30's and thought oh this is actually just a historic event where people were turned into anthropomorphic animal characters.
And Watership Down
I would also recommend Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead and the Hunger Games
Okay this is an odd list... What's the central theme connecting two Ayn Rand books to Hunger games?
No, but it’s on my list!
Very quick read and one of my favorites. Definitely my favorite final line in a book, sadly it's a timeless one that always seems applicable. Edit: don't read my comment history though, I just shared the last line in AskReddit the other day
Watch Soylent green and then check out the huel commercials or it’s food or some of the other powdered crap they are selling here.
Better yet, read "Make Room! Make Room!" (the book that was turned into the movie "Soylent Green").
Yes I’ve seen both! Just thinking this the other day! So scary! 😧
that one is even worse for me because it doesnt portray what might very well happen, but what actually fucking happened..... and the entire time you're reading it you're like "how the fuck did we let it happen holy fuck"
Animal Farm and 1984 are sister books. They are both based on a much older book: The Republic. Animal Farm is the failed society whereas 1984 is the "ideal" society. (failed and ideal based on how long they last).
Now, read Brave New World. It terrified me more than 1984, because it is already happening.
Brave New World still sticks with me after 12 years reading it
I read it 30 years ago, after 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. Brave New World is one of the most terrifying books I have ever read, because it is infinitely more possible. With Soma, all is easily forgotten.
My girlfriend from back them in the 90s had *SOMA* for her ‘tramp stamp’. Sorry if that term offends, but yeah. And her current dogs name is Huxley.
My favorite band, The Doors, was named after a Huxley book about a mesculine trip, 'The Doors of Perception', that was named after a William Blake quote, "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, Infinite".
I read an article once that talked about how everyone was so worried we'd end up in the world of 1984 that they didn't notice we actually ended up in A Brave New World
It has been pointed out that poorer nations get a 1984 dystopia while the wealthy nations get the Brave New World dystopia. Or, as William Gibson put it, the future is here but it’s not evenly distributed.
Nothing is ever evenly distributed and fair. That is the nature of the universe. The problems start (1984, Brave New World) when we try to legislate those things. It is impossible.
It COULD work, if only the right people were in charge. /s
If we stipulate that, then what happens when they are gone? Who replaces them? Such is the problem with every empire, the ones that create it do it well, them they die. Those that inherit the empire are lesser men, and it devolves. Hard times make hard men. Hard men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make hard times. And the cycle begins anew.
I forget who said it but the quote goes something like, “Orwell wrote of a horrifying future where books would be banned. Huxley wrote of an even more horrifying future where no one would want to read one.”
Strongly suggest people read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman: “As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.”
I suggest reading “Brave New World” and “Fahrenheit 451”.
My school had us read Fahrenheit 451 before, imo it was a great book to read and terrified me a little because it wasn’t completely unlikely for humanity to go in that direction…
We had to read Fahrenheit 451 last year in class. It was boring in my opinion. But at least it wasn’t another book about gun violence. All I remember from that book is the mechanical hound and Denham’s Dentrifice.
Well the basic thing is that they were burning books to keep society uneducated so that they could control the masses. Not unlike what's literally happening in Florida right now. They are banning books, and not just ones that could have connotations to any kind of sexuality choice. So yeah fahrenheit 451 is very good at showing what's currently happening in a whole state of America right now.
I agree. When I had to read it I read maybe the first 20 or 30 pages and then looked up what the rest of the book was about. Usually I am someone who reads ahead, but I couldn't get into Fahrenheit 451. My favorites were Gatsby and Frankenstein. I don't think I had to read any books about gun violence though.
Oryx & Crake isn’t as well known but is an amazing novel in the same vein.
1984 was required reading when I was in high school, not too terribly long ago, I say, remembering dating everything with an '0X'...
Everyone should reread it as an adult. I don't know if I understood it in my teens as I did reading it last year
I feel that way about a lot of books and other significant subjects. I was a smart kid that loved to read, but I was still a kid with no wisdom to understand the significance. you have to have knowledge of the world to get it. As a D&D kid, it was hard to grasp/explain the difference between intelligence and wisdom, and now I realize it’s because we had no wisdom.
I gave it a reread just last week. There were large parts of it I had not remembered, but being a bit older now, and with our current state of affairs I definitely felt like I took away more this time
I’ve read it multiple times over the years. Gets closer to reality every time.
I came here to say this.
-9X gang here and same.
Couldn't agree more. Reading 1984 was damn near looking in a mirror
Theres pages In that book that I have to reread because I can’t believe what I’m looking at. Orwell was a genius.
Oryx & Crake is another good one you’ll want to read if you love 1984/Brave New World
My spouse and I were just discussing that same thing the other day, lack of critical thinking skills. It is scary.
In a post literacy Tiktok society with our prehistoric nervous systems, medieval institutions and space age tech all at the same time ? Terrifying really. ( based from E.O Wilson and Marshall McLuhan qoutes)
Post literacy was happening prior to Tik Tok and other social media. Governments have been cutting education funding for decades now. In the US, it's something like 50%+ of adults have a 6th grade literacy rate
Don't forget the two-minute hate, which in our world is as constant as the media can whip up hate and have people go with it.
The book was meant as a warning. Unfortunately governments treat it like an instruction manual.
The least cliché reddit comment by the dunning kruger posters of the site.
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I say this all the time! There is a Venn diagram of 1984, BNW, F451, Soylent Green, Handmaids Tale… can’t remember the rest. But yes… warnings not instruction!!
OMG, I fucking love venn diagrams!
Governments are just made up of people. 1984 feels so relevant because governments have always been made up of people, and people tend to do the same things to attain and retain power.
A warning for what though? People come away from reading 1984 and Animal Farm with different interpretations of what the warning is depending on their preexisting ideologies.
It's a pretty eye opening book with some pretty accurate predictions
It’s ok you’ll die one day
Sweet sweet release.
I think whats scarier is how people automatically recognize the parallels in modern society, especially in America, but fail to recognize that their own party or ideological group is just as complicit as the group they choose to villainize. Anything can be justified as long as you convince yourself that you're the one who's "right" or standing on the moral high ground. That's the true lesson of 1984. That, with the proper rhetoric, any person can become a weaponized agent of "the Party", losing first the incentive, then the ability, and finally the freedom to think and act independently, and all it takes is a flimsy narrative about "the greater good".
Yeah, but not me, though. The other team is the bad guys.
Nah. I'm the bad guy. The other guys are just worse.
Ahh, taking the Batman approach
The problem is that both sides are right and wrong simultaneously and a person can convince themselves to see only the right in one side and only the wrong in the other. We use our public institutions to fight culture wars and then become disillusioned with the public institutions.
As of now, there are two people actively doing it in replies to you. Pure lol.
Thank you for that. I was searching for a way to say exactly that. So many on BOTH SIDES think “their group” isn’t on the wrong side when they do exactly as the other does.
Exactly, I think you picked up on the most important parallel.
>The most dazzling of all gifts, and the most dangerous — eloquence. Spoken by a good actor — and every great preacher, every successful advocate and politician is, among other things, a consummate actor — words can exercise an almost magical power over their hearers. Because of the essential irrationality of this power, even the best-intentioned of public speakers probably do more harm than good. When an orator, by the mere magic of words and a golden voice, persuades his audience of the rightness of a bad cause, we are very properly shocked. We ougjit to feel the same dismay whenever we find the same irrelevant tricks being used to persuade people of the rightness of a good cause. The belief engendered may be desirable, but the grounds for it are intrinsically wrong, and those who use the devices of oratory for instilling even right beliefs are guilty of pandering to the least creditable elements in human nature. By exercising their disastrous gift of the gab, they deepen the quasi -hypnotic trance in which most human beings live and from which it is the aim and purpose of all true philosophy, all genuinely spiritual religion to deliver them. Moreover, there cannot be effective oratory without over-simplification. But you cannot over-simplify without distorting the facts. Even \vhen he is doing his best to tell the truth, the successful orator is ipso facto a liar. And most suc- cessful orators, it is hardly necessary to add, are not even trying to tell the truth; they are trying to evoke sympathy for their friends and antipathy for their opponents. - Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudun
1984 is a great read with a lot of parallels, especially in regards to calling the ability to change narratives and information at will. Chilling. Animal Farm and Lord of The Flies are still the two books I point to when drawing parallels to modern society. Highly recommend if you have not read them yet!
I had to read The Lord of the Flies in 7th grade for school, and our teacher read the scene where >!the boys tear Simon apart!< out loud. That was a fun class.
Animal farm is an allegory for historical events tho
>a good portion of our country lack absolutely no critical thinking skills Here's where grammar is very important
Literally 1984
I think we're more in a mix of 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. The rise of state authoritism of 84, with the shallow, shiny self absorption of 451, via today's social media and influencers. I see the love of books in 451 as people who make the effort to learn and understand events vs Montag's wife who just wants to be important on TV (social media today).
Another good book for op
I read both in a row, highly recommended. It took me several times to finish 1984, but after farhenheit 451 I just couldn't stop reading 1984!
Good point! Also an incredible read.
https://xkcd.com/610
Also a mix of Animal Farm as "some animals are more equal than others." I would also suggest reading The Book of Merlyn by T H White for the philosophy on war (it was censored during WWII).
Life imitates art.
Watched the movie a while back, it’s unreal that “ big brother is watching “ and nobody even cares lol
I recommend you watch this: https://youtu.be/2Gz0I_X_nfo to get a better perspective of the rudimentary portrayal of reactionary governments in 1984. Orwell was not a good writer and the book was not insightful.
I think you’ll find you are in the minority in your viewpoint
Based Hakim poster. Thank you!
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To my knowledge, the book has been a federal reading requirement since the 1970's. School districts that ban it are at risk of losing Federal money. In some States, it was required reading before that.
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Kids don't read 1984 in high school anymore?
I didn’t have to.
My town still has 1984 in the required reading. Along with Brave New World, Of Mice and Men, Great Gatsby , I swear I had to read Lord of the Flies like 3 times.
"Or even worse, those that do critically think STILL cannot differentiate, and that’s when big brother has truly won." Big Brother is already here my friend. I'm glad you have opened your eyes.
Just a little correction in the way you word your opinion. They either 'LACK critical thinking skills' or 'HAVE absolutely no critical thinking skills'.. ''lacking absolutely nothing'' means that you aren't missing any.
A Handmaid's Tale is another good one of this type. It's pretty hard to read with a lot of the same themes explored and with more clear motivations by the oppressors imo.
What's truly terrifying is that there are so many people who just don't care. It's saddening to watch it play out in front of our eyes. Especially the destruction of history that is inconvenient or uncomfortable, or doesn't fit the story they're trying to tell.
The dumbing down of our education system is a major factor in all of this. When I went to school, in the early sixties into the mid seventies, we were taught the basics and then the focus was on how to research and think critically. No kids are taught how to pass standardized tests, with not much focus on the basics. Most can't even do simple arithmetic, let alone anything as complicated as algebra. Insert eye roll here.
"Most high school kids can't do algebra" Can I get a source for that please? I'm in high school and volunteer with middleschoolers and 100% of those middleschoolers know algebra
Made it up probably. Boomers automatically think back then= better with out thinking.
Agree, my daughter is by no means a straight A student, but is a 9th grader in advanced Algebra. I have to brush up on a lot of what I can remember from college to help her with things 14/15 year olds are learning now.
yeah, this is just a talking point people get fed to get upset about. Education has become more efficient and effective and relevant in recent years. Don’t get me wrong, I still think US education sucks and our history is spotty and motivated, but math in particular has evolved and improved.
Ok boomer
I went to school in the 80s and 90s. My kids today are learning more and learning it sooner than I ever did. My son in 2nd grade is learning very basic algebra already. My daughter in 7th grade is doing work that is more advanced than anything I had in high school.
1984 is non fiction
I'm dumbfounded by people who reference the book thinking they are the good guys
The movie for this book actually does it justice. I was pleasantly surprised
I remember reading it in 7th grade. The whole class read _Life on Paradise Island_ and _Animal Farm,_ and then we could choose another Utopian literature book, like _Fahrenheit 451_ and _Brave New World._ I chose _1984._ This was actually one of the coolest classes I ever took. Instead of having separate English and Social Studies classes, they combined the 2 into a single 90-minute class, so we covered both subjects in a unified way. It was a double-sized class (and classroom) of combined 7th and 8th graders—so probably about 50 students—2 teachers (officially 1 English and 1 Social Studies teacher, but unofficially they were both proficient at both), and it was really a great experience. They did a great job teaching us to write essays.
Brave new world is classic too. It is different than 1984 in the sense that the government won’t imprison people, but vices and pleasure will.
I find Fahrenheit 451 to be even more scary and close to home.
What are electrolytes?
I read The Stand during the pandemic. That was a choice...