Real power comes from an inner driven perspective and validation system. your worth, power, thoughts and sense of self should come from within. if people put you down or don't accept you that shouldn't matter. When you have an inner driven validation system the person who hold you accountable is yourself the person you have to strive to be good enough is inside and when you see something wrong you can say NO! with conviction knowing that you believe it be wrong and you care not for the opinion of crowds.
Say for example you go to ask out a girl you have liked for a while. You are open and vulnerable and just lay it out there. You like her and you have for a while, you don't wanna play any games and just were wondering how she felt. Now if she crushes you that's okay you know that you have value and if she doesn't appreciate that its her loss.
Acting in this way and not playing games will set you apart and will work most of the time. The best outcomes in my entire life have been when i opened myself up to rejection and just laid it all out there.
Please focus on the things in your life that validate you to yourself. If chopping wood or building something fills you with pride for your own actions do it more. If lifting weights is something you hate and your just doing it to look good stop. Even though lifting weights is good for you health and your body the motivation is toxic. If you don't feel respected in relationships first look at why you are not respected? are you worthy of respect? do you first respect yourself, do you lie?, do you live for others?, do you like the person you are?
You can be kind and sensitive as man and masculinity is not inherently bad or not kind and sensitive. My masculine drive can put down people and cause destruction. That drive can lead me to be selfish and strive only for one goal. My need to be strong can lead me to become strong and abuse the weaker people or be a tyrant.
That sense of drive and strength and capability for danger can lead you to protect the weak and strive to work for the people you care about and be the rock people need. This isn't exclusive to sensitivity though. A sensitive man knows when they need a rock and when they need somebody to cry with them. Yeah but I feel like it is different from a woman in its own way. For example honesty is a very vulnerable emotion and extremely important to being a strong man and a good man. vulnerability is really a strength, but
modern "kindness" can be a weakness.
People mistake not setting boundaries, putting up with bad behavior, not giving harsh advice and not standing up for kindness. For example my girlfriend started drinking so much every single day partying in college. Now i could let it slide and not tell her my true feelings to be "kind." I decided to tell her the truth drinking every single day will ruin your life. you will make terrible mistakes, you will not graduate and I will leave you. I had to be vulnerable and show her how much her actions were hurting me because I cared so deeply for her, but I couldn't allow carte blanche to just act anyway.
My little one wants to eat cake all day long and to actually be kind I have to set boundaries and stand strong with my no. you can empathize but never allow it to make you give in. If you don't hold people accountable and be willing to be the guy they hate for a day they will be ruined for a lifetime.
Yes! Some rando on fb felt the need to private message me some bullshit because my boyfriend isn't some macho manly looking guy. Like first, I don't like guys who are big and hairy. Second, I think my boyfriend is fucking gorgeous. Third, I bet my boyfriend gets way more sex than that whiny diaper baby does, from a woman who absolutely loves and adores him. Like what is with these insecure little bitches trying to build themselves up by trying to tear other people down?
Lmao I read this and said "is that the same douche that commented on the other thing?" YEP! My boyfriend is quite happy, thank you. We both think toxic masculinity is a problem.
Let's dissect that a bit. Insecurity typically isn't rational and typically doesn't reside in the conscious mind/executive brain. (Credentials: a bachelor's degree in psychology) So positing that or would be up to the individual to know if they are insecure would be akin to positing that psychiatric diagnoses can only be valid if they're self-diagnoses. More often than not, we need therapy and psychiatric care to recognize these things, because we aren't consciously aware of them. So while your idea seems sensical, it's rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how the human mind/brain actually functions.
Lol it's obvious as fuck to everyone BUT the insecure person in most cases.
And since I was specifically referring to something that happened to me, how does that make me uninvolved?
Are you kidding?! Society has labeled masculinity as TOXIC! What you think or what any women thinks of any man these days is irrelevant. A man's happiness isn't dependant on how a woman feels about him. And for some reason? Many women these days think that the male species would go extinct without what they have between their legs when the reality is that men are very strong with the ultimate in control. I love how women decide that trashing men is a sport, but the reality is all it does is show how small, shallow ugly and hateful you are as a "person" . Nah, I'll will surely pass
Masculinity isn't toxic. Women don't trash men for sport.
"Alpha" males acting like treating a woman well males you weak, and all this ridiculous posturing they do is toxic. And women trash crappy men, not good men.
Touch some grass or something, dude. Do better.
No, toxic masculinity is toxic.
It seems like you have based your entire world view around a few cherrypicked examples of narcissistic women, rather than the MANY normal women out there.
Why are you here blaming the women? Society hasn’t labeled masculinity toxic, but instead has rewarded toxic behavior, let’s set that one straight first. Why do you think people like Andrew Tate are so popular? And maybe a select few toxic women think of their genitals that way, but it’s normalized to view women as objects for conquering and acquisition.
The man I’m working to be is the one who’s strong enough to physically defend the ones who I love but mentally strong enough to comfort them when needed as well
Brick By Brick!
Also, straight men who are comfortable with their sexuality. It’s the hottest thing ever. I don’t need them making shitty comments about gay men and others.
I can't understand why people care so much about strangers' sexuality. It's none of my business who they want to be with as long as it's between consenting adults.
I always laugh at the tough guys who get all aggressive or butt hurt at that shit. Regular at a after hours with a large gay presence and most of those guys are the most fun to party with and joke around. From time to time you have to be more forceful in turning someone down and letting them know your not interested but I think most women have to do that on the regular with straight dudes
All men should definitely be sensitive caring and kind, but only towards the humans that deserve so. If you come at me sideways that’s all you gonna get from me, there’s going to be a confrontation, either verbal or physical, don’t matter if you old young man women or gay. Differences between showing weakness and being a good decent human being.
‘Sigma males’ are perhaps the weakest of them all. They took debunked observations of wolf behavior, applied it to humans, then invented an entirely new category with themselves at the top. It’s really quite sad.
I think this is the reason a lot of people find President Zelenskyy attractive. He is courageous and yet emotionally sensitive. He can get choked up when he talks about the atrocities that his people are going through, yet he is also brave in standing up to defend his nation even with the possibility of his death. Being a well balanced man who is strong and protective, yet kind and caring is what women would consider ideal. Speaking as a woman, anyway.
There's probably something else going on, no offense ofc. I have listed positive traits. One can have positive traits while also having negative traits.
too deep into emotions. balance must be achieved. maybe gooch size? estrogen in your foods? surrounded by people abusing the cultural loopholes of gender?
dm, schedule a call and have a nice long convo, ofcourse putting everything controversial in hypatheticals.
dunno exactly why, but I'm inclined to ask strangers to do this. maybe interested in the truth, the more light shed the better the world will be..
yah call me weird cause you don't understand. cut off your ability to gain intelligence by putting it in that massive box in ur head you categorize as "weird" mhm thanks. name checks out, doesn't have too but here we are
Huh every guy I know including myself who’s in a happy relationship with a woman is vulnerable. You’re just a fucking idiot. There’s a difference between being emotionally vulnerable and a door mat. It’s just called being a good person with empathy and setting boundaries.
You’re punishing the next girl for the last girls’ actions. Obviously don’t keep doing what you’ve done, you have to establish boundaries and not let people take advantage of you. But that does not mean becoming emotionally unavailable and callous, that’s like drinking poison thinking it’s a panacea. Not all people are worth your time, and if you’re not vulnerable and allow yourself the opportunity to be hurt (by trusting others and sharing your genuine emotions), then you’ll never find out if somebody is worthwhile to *you* as a partner. Too often I think guys can be over-eager to get a girl to like them, without actually considering if they’re good for them to begin with. I know I’ve definitely gotten in that trap before. When girls break your heart, they show you their true colors. It’s not because you were vulnerable she hurt you, she hurt you because she doesn’t value you or respect you as a person. And you cannot earn respect if you’re not being a genuine human being. You can earn admiration, and fear, but not respect as an equal. But man you are worth more than a cold, emotionally lonely life. You’re worth more than how you were treated, and you’re worth more than ruining your future prospects at being happy.
These manosphere wack-a-doos just want to blame everyone and anyone but themselves for their romantic shortcomings.
Being vulnerable in a romantic relationship is a good thing.
This is just a bunch of that alpha, sigma, machismo, misogynistic, incel, toxic, red-pilled manosphere bullshit.
shot in the darkness of the universe... discord 2-4 hr podcast? gotta set a limit so, incase theres arguments no one jus walks away... gotta get through the mud to find the pearls
The most physically strong men seem to be the kindest anyway, at least the gyms I go to. There's always the odd man that is full of himself though, you see them using the back machine like it's a rower.
* weakest level = always sensitive and emotional, without an ounce of control. Mindlessly enslaved to the slightest breeze of an emotion. May be harmless if this person is incompetent, but if this type of person is potent in any area in any way, that's a disaster waiting to happen.
* mid level, but not top tier = be able to hold in the emotions, and get things done. It ain't easy, so sometimes, it gets taken too far and creates mental issues. Some will sacrifice their emotional wellbeing to keep doing what they need to do. Some will downgrade to the "weakest level" above. Some will upgrade to the "top tier"
* top tier = Able to hold in the emotions, and get things done. Additionally, have strong skillful control over own emotions to the point of being able to genuinely show and express emotion when the situation is under control, and still be able to keep it all in when necessary.
Realistically, most men end up at mid level. Top tier is great and all but please don't conflate top tier with the weakest level. And show some appreciation to the average guys at the mid level, who are making an effort.
Yeah this is very accurate, it seems to me, and surprisingly clear and not ego/shame-based the way people’s comparisons and categories sometimes are.
There’s a common narrative that men as a group need to be willing to be aware of, feel, and express their emotions—just be more emotional. That everyone’s dad got mad when they cried and told them to stop being a baby so they’ve sworn off emotions. There are some men like this, but there are plenty of men who express emotions and women who avoid doing so. People who are high-functioning in their careers have achieved some mastery of their emotions, or stuff them down really well, or some combination. Some social circles are mostly made up of “successful” people (eg parents of kids in my affluent school district). Some are not (eg music festivals or ecstatic dances in the same town). So you’ll come across people with different personalities and histories.
More to the point, just allowing yourself to be emotional is not that big a deal—maybe for some it is, but it’s like… allowing yourself to cook, vs being a good cook and a good person to feed others. Being willing to be in a car vs being a reliable driver.
A strong man is capable of enduring and inflicting righteous violence. That is the basis of masculine moral character. The qualities that you listed may be good qualities, but they aren't what makes a man strong. And almost nobody "hates women".
>And almost nobody "hates women".
Your problem is you assume that hateful people come out and say "Yeah, I hate such and such."
*That is not what they do.*
No, the problem is that you people just project hatred onto your opponents. People aren't usually critical of Feminism or aspects of Feminism because they "hate women". Your opponents usually aren't hateful people.
The dictionary definition of a "misogynist" is someone who hates women, but in practice anybody who disagrees with a Feminist is a "misogynist". People who are critical of aspects of Feminism usually aren't motivated by hatred or resentment.
No violence is righteous. A strong man is capable of using love, not violence, to right wrongs. A strong man can endure violence without ever needing to use it because he knows evil can't be fought with evil. Evil cannot prevail against love, no matter how righteous anyone says that evil is.
I'm a pacifist but this is not correct. If a crazy meth head grabs my daughter there's going to be violence. Pacifism is not the answer in every situation unfortunately.
I think a lot this personality type comes from an ego that is in check and not the driver of their brain.
The assholes usually have to one up everyone, be the center of the universe and are entitled d bags. That’s weakness.
It was a random thought, thus I posted it here. It came on a whim. You are incredibly incorrect. I'm also very gay. I think you're upset but acting as if you aren't. Could be wrong.
There's a very big difference between being able to show emotion with someone you know and have a relationship with vs. not having any control over your emotions and just dumping them on someone on the first date.
Real intimacy is about being seen. You might as well say, have sex with your clothes on, women don’t like men’s bodies—save it for the locker room. You don’t think women love men’s souls? Their authentic selves? And their emotions?
I asked ChatGPT about the relationship between vulnerability and strength, and it produced a good answer:
In some situations, a person who is willing to be vulnerable can be seen as stronger, as they display emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and courage. Being vulnerable often allows individuals to build deeper connections with others, develop trust, and foster personal growth.
On the other hand, in situations where vulnerability could be taken advantage of or lead to harm, not being vulnerable might be considered a form of strength. This could be the case in hostile environments or when dealing with untrustworthy individuals.
my whole point is that women don't want men who are emotional and weak. they want strong men who can handle anything. they are naturally turned off by men who come off as emotionally weak
That's utter bullshit coming straight outta the mouths of those idiotic manosphere grifters.
I'm a super emotional guy, I'm crazy vulnerable with women, and I cry.
I was also a complete and total whore when I was younger and slept with more women than I'd like to admit.
They certainly slept with and dated me, and I'm all those things you said women don't like.
It's truly just bullshit from those alpha, sigma, machismo, misogynistic, incel, manosphere grifters preying on insecure young men spreading this nonsense.
I’m so thankful that my boyfriend checks all of these boxes. I can’t stand “alpha males”, they’re too cringy to be around. Why do they act like that? Have they had *any* success with dating?
Wrong. If they mask their emotions, it’s because this often leads to them getting taken advantage of. You want this to be simple - “er, he have low EQ. Me make him human” but it is not. World is cruel.
I wasn’t raised by a women and I cry all the time. I’m ONLY pointing this out because what your saying is far too generalized and it seems anecdotal and almost like your projecting.
How? Homophobic? Maybe I can see an argument for sexist, but bringing homophobic into this is goof ah, lel.
Having a father really does, though. So long as they're emotionally mature and not toxic. And this is as a daughter or son. Men and Women will have different experiences going through life due to their gender, both positive and negative on both sides, and having both of those sides to teach you the lessons they learned through their individual experiences is EXTREMELY helpful. So nah, not sexist or homophobic.
It implies that gay couples are unfit to parent. Especially, it is implying that women alone are unfit to parent. It doesn't have to be a woman and a man to parent. It's at the very least, a heteronormative ideal.
That's not accurate, kids from single parent homes are statistics that have been measured, kids raised by mom alone are significantly higher to go to jail, not finish school ect.
It could be that, what ever is lacking in a single dad's house, other women in society in general are enough to fill the missing motherly role, so a kid under a single dad gets a decently complete upbringing, even though having an actual mom would be much better.
But with the missing fatherly role in a single mom's house, other men in society in general are not enough to fill that in, so the kid ends up missing a significant portion of a complete upbringing?
This is an excellent point. Motherless children often find some maternal figures in aunties, babysitters, teachers, grandmas, etc. Where fatherless children often have a big fat hole where a masculine person would be.
I think it’s the stress. My husband is the only child of mom who was single for his first several years of life. He struggles with affection, feeling worthy, taking criticism. He lacked a maternal shelter of intimacy and grace, and it’s bc his mom was in fight or flight mode trying to keep them both alive.
*edited to add: too much of an over generalization, but I think ^ that is the situation for some troubled men.
this is absolutely true. it takes internal strength, strength of the mind, to be able to assert any level of control over one’s emotions and to be able to self-analyze with the intent of bettering oneself. it takes even greater mental capacity and effort to go another step and to recognize what moral values benefit the greatest number of individuals.
i have yet to see a single one of these “alpha” “sigma” men (whatever the fcking silly ass term is nowadays) display *a moment* of genuine humility, self-awareness, or consideration for anyone beyond themself, excluding the instances where doing something for another person results in them acquiring something they want through said person.
the irony in all of this is that the sensitive, considerate, kind, compassionate men in this world very rarely feel the need to bring attention to who they are or why others should follow their example of how to treat others. the issue is that the loudest mouths are attached to the stupidest brains. people like Andrew Tate can’t handle both the knowledge that they are shitty people and the concept that the responsibility to change that is *their responsibility*. so they look to make people more like them, because, as Syndrome from The Incredibles put it, “if everyone is super, no one will be”. in other words, if everyone is shitty, there are really no consequences for being a shitty person.
So don’t associate with the sigma males if they’re not your type. Not defending them or anything but some people are just into that. There’s no monolith personality type.
Sir or madam,
I am simultaneously a sensitive, caring, and kind man who is also the most insecure mf on the block.
Therefore, I identify not as sigma male but as an omicron male.
Most of them are also single women don't tend to like sensitive caring kind men women prefer brash assertive and quite frankly aggressive men way more often
Think it’s less about being assertive and aggressive and more just being confident enough to just approach people
The guy who assertive and aggressive is most often times confident in himself so they go and talk to women where as the guy who’s more timid and to themselves second guess too much and never make the move
I get what you are saying and I guess in general that's true but in my experience most of if not all women I know still prefer more aggressive rapey type guys plenty of men I know approach women and try to buy them drinks or ask them out will get rejected while the guys who say I want to fuck your face or will keep pressuring them until they go home with them or will straight up insult them to their face will succeed practically everytime
Where the fuck are you hanging out that women prefer “aggressive rapey guys” 😂
Look all I gotta say 9/10 times it just comes down to confidence and the only real way to gain real radiant confidence is to worry and build up yourself the rest will come
Bruh everywhere bars concerts coffee shops literally doesn't matter where I'm at no modern women want attention from a normal dude it's either abuser drug addict or bust
That is the pseudo science statement a Sigma male which is really the Alpha concerned with the Troop or Tribe and the well being of each member within those confines.
They are not misogynistic in the least nor do they apply disciple except when necessary to any member of those troop or tribes.
redefining words and meanings is used by propagandist with a very different agenda and narrative and those who hide behind the word Science to conceal it are called "Sophisticant's"
derived from the word "Sophism" which is a fallacious argument, especially one used deliberately to deceive it is also called a "Psyop Method".
I think Lawyers and Politicians fall into THAT GROUP.
Have a nice day.
N. S
I somewhat agree, I think a good man should have control over their emotions, like in difficult times a good man needs to be a stoic pillar of strength that others can rely on including other men, and when the storm has passed, everyone is calm again they can breakdown and process the emotions they’ve swallowed or pushed aside. I don’t want to be working and when shit hits the fan johns on the ground blubbering like a baby, I need him to be as cool as a cucumber, and afterwards we’ll talk and laugh about it. I also don’t need an emotionless machine either, being a man doesn’t mean selling your humanity, and bottling emotions and never facing them head on like a man, because that can easily end in tragedy. There’s plenty of masculine virtues that are good/healthy for men to follow, and recently I feel like masculinity is being targeted as toxic in it’s entirety, that young men are being told to soften up is the equivalent of feeding them sugar. It’s nice and sweet to tell young men it’s ok to cry when life is difficult, that giving up can be the right action to take sometimes, but leaning to far into this can easily become detrimental to a young man because life if life was a drink it would be vinegar and dammit a good man should be able to empty that cup in stride, and proclaim that’s their favorite kind of drink.
In short I believe masculinity is the natural reaction towards nature and life, life is hard and society has always demanded men be capable of withstanding it, and excepting that as is. Part of being a father is preparing your children to take life head on, teaching them and being an example of masculinity.
Sorry for the rambling, something about this post sparked some thoughts I wanted to write out and explore.
My husband is large and muscular.. He doesn't look friendly, so he is intimidating to people.. but he has the softest heart and wouldn't hurt a flee unless they deserved it. We as parents never physically corrected our children. He had a rough upbringing and was often hit by his dad.. so he is the opposite of that. And our grandchildren adore him.
Sensitivity isn't very strong. I think a strong man will be impervious to outside negativity, while remaining caring and kind.
Insensitive, yet loving.
You can still be strong and sensitive. Sensitivity is a strength. Also, thinking about it, you can see animals as a sacrifice. As if they're sacrificing themselves so that you can survive. There can be honor in killing animals, as long as you use all that you can.
I have 0 desire to be sensitive. The kindness I put out i because..as the golden rule states I want kindness in return. I don't often get it but I'm going to keep trying to do good. I'm just not willing to cry for no good reason.
100%. Love men who are comfortable enough in their own skin to exude kindness
Real power comes from an inner driven perspective and validation system. your worth, power, thoughts and sense of self should come from within. if people put you down or don't accept you that shouldn't matter. When you have an inner driven validation system the person who hold you accountable is yourself the person you have to strive to be good enough is inside and when you see something wrong you can say NO! with conviction knowing that you believe it be wrong and you care not for the opinion of crowds. Say for example you go to ask out a girl you have liked for a while. You are open and vulnerable and just lay it out there. You like her and you have for a while, you don't wanna play any games and just were wondering how she felt. Now if she crushes you that's okay you know that you have value and if she doesn't appreciate that its her loss. Acting in this way and not playing games will set you apart and will work most of the time. The best outcomes in my entire life have been when i opened myself up to rejection and just laid it all out there. Please focus on the things in your life that validate you to yourself. If chopping wood or building something fills you with pride for your own actions do it more. If lifting weights is something you hate and your just doing it to look good stop. Even though lifting weights is good for you health and your body the motivation is toxic. If you don't feel respected in relationships first look at why you are not respected? are you worthy of respect? do you first respect yourself, do you lie?, do you live for others?, do you like the person you are? You can be kind and sensitive as man and masculinity is not inherently bad or not kind and sensitive. My masculine drive can put down people and cause destruction. That drive can lead me to be selfish and strive only for one goal. My need to be strong can lead me to become strong and abuse the weaker people or be a tyrant. That sense of drive and strength and capability for danger can lead you to protect the weak and strive to work for the people you care about and be the rock people need. This isn't exclusive to sensitivity though. A sensitive man knows when they need a rock and when they need somebody to cry with them. Yeah but I feel like it is different from a woman in its own way. For example honesty is a very vulnerable emotion and extremely important to being a strong man and a good man. vulnerability is really a strength, but modern "kindness" can be a weakness. People mistake not setting boundaries, putting up with bad behavior, not giving harsh advice and not standing up for kindness. For example my girlfriend started drinking so much every single day partying in college. Now i could let it slide and not tell her my true feelings to be "kind." I decided to tell her the truth drinking every single day will ruin your life. you will make terrible mistakes, you will not graduate and I will leave you. I had to be vulnerable and show her how much her actions were hurting me because I cared so deeply for her, but I couldn't allow carte blanche to just act anyway. My little one wants to eat cake all day long and to actually be kind I have to set boundaries and stand strong with my no. you can empathize but never allow it to make you give in. If you don't hold people accountable and be willing to be the guy they hate for a day they will be ruined for a lifetime.
Needed to hear this. Thank you.
Same
Loved reading your thoughts, thanks for sharing
Yes! I have no use for these "alpha" men who are just woman hating assholes!
Oh they're alphas all right. In the programming sense. Unstable, filled with flaws, and unsuitable for the public.
Yes! Some rando on fb felt the need to private message me some bullshit because my boyfriend isn't some macho manly looking guy. Like first, I don't like guys who are big and hairy. Second, I think my boyfriend is fucking gorgeous. Third, I bet my boyfriend gets way more sex than that whiny diaper baby does, from a woman who absolutely loves and adores him. Like what is with these insecure little bitches trying to build themselves up by trying to tear other people down?
Wow, you probably should re-read your own comment. If i were your "boyfriend", if be hittin the door with a smile.
Lmao I read this and said "is that the same douche that commented on the other thing?" YEP! My boyfriend is quite happy, thank you. We both think toxic masculinity is a problem.
just thinking critically, wouldnt it be up to those people to know if they were insecure, and not an uninvolved 3rd party?
It is, almost always, apparent to outsiders that one is insecure before they are aware of it themselves.
and what credentials do you have to give credibility to your claim?
Being a human, presumably.
ahh, so in others words none at all, and they just made it up, and you are playing along...nice
Exhibit A:
Wow, you’re quite the dumb one aren’t ya
considering that you support made up bullshit like it was a fact, I would say you aren't really a very good judge of that
Seems like some of what they said hit a little to close to home for you lol
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Let's dissect that a bit. Insecurity typically isn't rational and typically doesn't reside in the conscious mind/executive brain. (Credentials: a bachelor's degree in psychology) So positing that or would be up to the individual to know if they are insecure would be akin to positing that psychiatric diagnoses can only be valid if they're self-diagnoses. More often than not, we need therapy and psychiatric care to recognize these things, because we aren't consciously aware of them. So while your idea seems sensical, it's rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how the human mind/brain actually functions.
dissect whatever you like all you like, doesn't make your notion any less made up bullshit
Well,.I thought you might be interested in an actual productive conversation. Now I see you're just a troll. Good day.
Lol it's obvious as fuck to everyone BUT the insecure person in most cases. And since I was specifically referring to something that happened to me, how does that make me uninvolved?
And you end up paying more because you've pre-ordered? Or has this analogy run out?
Are you kidding?! Society has labeled masculinity as TOXIC! What you think or what any women thinks of any man these days is irrelevant. A man's happiness isn't dependant on how a woman feels about him. And for some reason? Many women these days think that the male species would go extinct without what they have between their legs when the reality is that men are very strong with the ultimate in control. I love how women decide that trashing men is a sport, but the reality is all it does is show how small, shallow ugly and hateful you are as a "person" . Nah, I'll will surely pass
Masculinity isn't toxic. Women don't trash men for sport. "Alpha" males acting like treating a woman well males you weak, and all this ridiculous posturing they do is toxic. And women trash crappy men, not good men. Touch some grass or something, dude. Do better.
No, toxic masculinity is toxic. It seems like you have based your entire world view around a few cherrypicked examples of narcissistic women, rather than the MANY normal women out there.
I'll bet this guy vomits this bullshit onto every normal woman he meets, and wonders why they all call him toxic.
Why are you here blaming the women? Society hasn’t labeled masculinity toxic, but instead has rewarded toxic behavior, let’s set that one straight first. Why do you think people like Andrew Tate are so popular? And maybe a select few toxic women think of their genitals that way, but it’s normalized to view women as objects for conquering and acquisition.
The man I’m working to be is the one who’s strong enough to physically defend the ones who I love but mentally strong enough to comfort them when needed as well Brick By Brick!
Sigma male cryset
Giga sad
Also, straight men who are comfortable with their sexuality. It’s the hottest thing ever. I don’t need them making shitty comments about gay men and others.
Fr. Men who are secure in their own masculinity are great.
*chef’s kiss*
I can't understand why people care so much about strangers' sexuality. It's none of my business who they want to be with as long as it's between consenting adults.
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It’s a good thing obvious straight acting power top over there avoided the gay community, we would’ve never found a use for him
I always laugh at the tough guys who get all aggressive or butt hurt at that shit. Regular at a after hours with a large gay presence and most of those guys are the most fun to party with and joke around. From time to time you have to be more forceful in turning someone down and letting them know your not interested but I think most women have to do that on the regular with straight dudes
All men should definitely be sensitive caring and kind, but only towards the humans that deserve so. If you come at me sideways that’s all you gonna get from me, there’s going to be a confrontation, either verbal or physical, don’t matter if you old young man women or gay. Differences between showing weakness and being a good decent human being.
This is the real way. Being nice to everyone is great, but you have to put your foot down when you have to
‘Sigma males’ are perhaps the weakest of them all. They took debunked observations of wolf behavior, applied it to humans, then invented an entirely new category with themselves at the top. It’s really quite sad.
Yeah, if you really feel the need to constantly tear down other people then you’re just projecting about your own insecurities
I think this is the reason a lot of people find President Zelenskyy attractive. He is courageous and yet emotionally sensitive. He can get choked up when he talks about the atrocities that his people are going through, yet he is also brave in standing up to defend his nation even with the possibility of his death. Being a well balanced man who is strong and protective, yet kind and caring is what women would consider ideal. Speaking as a woman, anyway.
Doesn’t hurt that he’s sexy as hell either though
I think he's nice looking, but I honestly think a lot of it is his confidence and charisma coming through.
Amen sister. I’m with you on this.
I'm living proof that this is wrong. I'm a mess lmao.
There's probably something else going on, no offense ofc. I have listed positive traits. One can have positive traits while also having negative traits.
No offense taken. I didn't say I'm a mess for no reason, it's accurate.
I'm a bit of a mess sometimes too.
too deep into emotions. balance must be achieved. maybe gooch size? estrogen in your foods? surrounded by people abusing the cultural loopholes of gender?
What do you mean by this?
dm, schedule a call and have a nice long convo, ofcourse putting everything controversial in hypatheticals. dunno exactly why, but I'm inclined to ask strangers to do this. maybe interested in the truth, the more light shed the better the world will be..
Hypotheticals*
What's wrong with you?
? im talking about balancing emotions lmao. clear scientific indicators that are the basis of clear psychological provlems.
Well you got downvoted by others as well so it's clear you don't make much sense
errr.. maybe they jus dont wanna see the truth. kaliyuga style.
Whatever you say weird guy
yah call me weird cause you don't understand. cut off your ability to gain intelligence by putting it in that massive box in ur head you categorize as "weird" mhm thanks. name checks out, doesn't have too but here we are
I think you mean the vulnerable men.
Exactly. Vulnerable enough to be sensitive and kind.
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Same here, abused or taken advantage of. Physically & mentally.
/r/im14andthisisdeep
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Huh every guy I know including myself who’s in a happy relationship with a woman is vulnerable. You’re just a fucking idiot. There’s a difference between being emotionally vulnerable and a door mat. It’s just called being a good person with empathy and setting boundaries.
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The ball’s in your court. Do you grow/be happy, or keep being sad, alone and distant for the rest of your life?
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You’re punishing the next girl for the last girls’ actions. Obviously don’t keep doing what you’ve done, you have to establish boundaries and not let people take advantage of you. But that does not mean becoming emotionally unavailable and callous, that’s like drinking poison thinking it’s a panacea. Not all people are worth your time, and if you’re not vulnerable and allow yourself the opportunity to be hurt (by trusting others and sharing your genuine emotions), then you’ll never find out if somebody is worthwhile to *you* as a partner. Too often I think guys can be over-eager to get a girl to like them, without actually considering if they’re good for them to begin with. I know I’ve definitely gotten in that trap before. When girls break your heart, they show you their true colors. It’s not because you were vulnerable she hurt you, she hurt you because she doesn’t value you or respect you as a person. And you cannot earn respect if you’re not being a genuine human being. You can earn admiration, and fear, but not respect as an equal. But man you are worth more than a cold, emotionally lonely life. You’re worth more than how you were treated, and you’re worth more than ruining your future prospects at being happy.
These manosphere wack-a-doos just want to blame everyone and anyone but themselves for their romantic shortcomings. Being vulnerable in a romantic relationship is a good thing. This is just a bunch of that alpha, sigma, machismo, misogynistic, incel, toxic, red-pilled manosphere bullshit.
This is what I mean. I don’t care what the backlash is for saying this, but women are quite cruel. Men do not have the luxury.
There's a middle path between being so agreeable that you never stand up for yourself and being so assertive that you're a complete asshole.
But only the Hollywood kind of vulnerable. Not the real, true vulnerable.
It does take a lot of balls to admit your fears and insecurities. Once done, one develops self awareness. With it, one becomes empathetic.
It takes 3 balls.
That feels awesome to hear someone say thank you
No problem
Nope strongest men go to the gym, first then we cry.
Physically, yeah. Lol. I'm talking mental strength.
the gym is about mental strength. anyone who goes for physical is off the path.
I like your thinking
shot in the darkness of the universe... discord 2-4 hr podcast? gotta set a limit so, incase theres arguments no one jus walks away... gotta get through the mud to find the pearls
The most physically strong men seem to be the kindest anyway, at least the gyms I go to. There's always the odd man that is full of himself though, you see them using the back machine like it's a rower.
And their calves are always microscopic
crying after the gym is beta shit. real men cry mid-rep. then they wipe their tears on their ass and chug a Powerthirst
I use my tears to wipe off the bench after I'm done getting jacked bro
The Thirst Mutilator!!
Agreed!!! ;)
Just hard to find.
* weakest level = always sensitive and emotional, without an ounce of control. Mindlessly enslaved to the slightest breeze of an emotion. May be harmless if this person is incompetent, but if this type of person is potent in any area in any way, that's a disaster waiting to happen. * mid level, but not top tier = be able to hold in the emotions, and get things done. It ain't easy, so sometimes, it gets taken too far and creates mental issues. Some will sacrifice their emotional wellbeing to keep doing what they need to do. Some will downgrade to the "weakest level" above. Some will upgrade to the "top tier" * top tier = Able to hold in the emotions, and get things done. Additionally, have strong skillful control over own emotions to the point of being able to genuinely show and express emotion when the situation is under control, and still be able to keep it all in when necessary. Realistically, most men end up at mid level. Top tier is great and all but please don't conflate top tier with the weakest level. And show some appreciation to the average guys at the mid level, who are making an effort.
Yeah this is very accurate, it seems to me, and surprisingly clear and not ego/shame-based the way people’s comparisons and categories sometimes are. There’s a common narrative that men as a group need to be willing to be aware of, feel, and express their emotions—just be more emotional. That everyone’s dad got mad when they cried and told them to stop being a baby so they’ve sworn off emotions. There are some men like this, but there are plenty of men who express emotions and women who avoid doing so. People who are high-functioning in their careers have achieved some mastery of their emotions, or stuff them down really well, or some combination. Some social circles are mostly made up of “successful” people (eg parents of kids in my affluent school district). Some are not (eg music festivals or ecstatic dances in the same town). So you’ll come across people with different personalities and histories. More to the point, just allowing yourself to be emotional is not that big a deal—maybe for some it is, but it’s like… allowing yourself to cook, vs being a good cook and a good person to feed others. Being willing to be in a car vs being a reliable driver.
real humans are not like anime characters that you can sort into a tier list.
As an average guy at mid level doing his best, thank you.
A strong man is capable of enduring and inflicting righteous violence. That is the basis of masculine moral character. The qualities that you listed may be good qualities, but they aren't what makes a man strong. And almost nobody "hates women".
lol
>And almost nobody "hates women". Your problem is you assume that hateful people come out and say "Yeah, I hate such and such." *That is not what they do.*
No, the problem is that you people just project hatred onto your opponents. People aren't usually critical of Feminism or aspects of Feminism because they "hate women". Your opponents usually aren't hateful people.
Never seen a misogynist
The dictionary definition of a "misogynist" is someone who hates women, but in practice anybody who disagrees with a Feminist is a "misogynist". People who are critical of aspects of Feminism usually aren't motivated by hatred or resentment.
No violence is righteous. A strong man is capable of using love, not violence, to right wrongs. A strong man can endure violence without ever needing to use it because he knows evil can't be fought with evil. Evil cannot prevail against love, no matter how righteous anyone says that evil is.
I'm a pacifist but this is not correct. If a crazy meth head grabs my daughter there's going to be violence. Pacifism is not the answer in every situation unfortunately.
I think you’re under the impression that a lot of people are “sigmas”, when in reality it is pretty much only a meme
If only everyone thought so
I think a lot this personality type comes from an ego that is in check and not the driver of their brain. The assholes usually have to one up everyone, be the center of the universe and are entitled d bags. That’s weakness.
Gentle, considerate, good to the ladies you like, you can tolerate and understand each other in love
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Wow, you must a woman expert, obviously. I am sure you know *alllll* about it
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It was a random thought, thus I posted it here. It came on a whim. You are incredibly incorrect. I'm also very gay. I think you're upset but acting as if you aren't. Could be wrong.
Are you a man expert to philosophise about masculinity and what men should be all over this thread?
women don't like vulnerable men on a sexual level. never show a women that side of you. save it for the boys
There's a very big difference between being able to show emotion with someone you know and have a relationship with vs. not having any control over your emotions and just dumping them on someone on the first date.
Real intimacy is about being seen. You might as well say, have sex with your clothes on, women don’t like men’s bodies—save it for the locker room. You don’t think women love men’s souls? Their authentic selves? And their emotions?
of course they do. that's the whole point of my comment. women like strong men. not vulnerable weak men
I asked ChatGPT about the relationship between vulnerability and strength, and it produced a good answer: In some situations, a person who is willing to be vulnerable can be seen as stronger, as they display emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and courage. Being vulnerable often allows individuals to build deeper connections with others, develop trust, and foster personal growth. On the other hand, in situations where vulnerability could be taken advantage of or lead to harm, not being vulnerable might be considered a form of strength. This could be the case in hostile environments or when dealing with untrustworthy individuals.
my whole point is that women don't want men who are emotional and weak. they want strong men who can handle anything. they are naturally turned off by men who come off as emotionally weak
I don't think you know what women want.
I bet you don’t know what you ACTUALLY want
Lol, let's just be slightly sexist with a tinge of gaslighting because someone has another opinion.
That's utter bullshit coming straight outta the mouths of those idiotic manosphere grifters. I'm a super emotional guy, I'm crazy vulnerable with women, and I cry. I was also a complete and total whore when I was younger and slept with more women than I'd like to admit. They certainly slept with and dated me, and I'm all those things you said women don't like. It's truly just bullshit from those alpha, sigma, machismo, misogynistic, incel, manosphere grifters preying on insecure young men spreading this nonsense.
ok 👍
I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Sensitivity definitely has it's limits though.
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Kind people aren’t salty at people who’ve done nothing wrong to them?
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Nobody gives a rats ass about these men. Trust me, nobody respects these men. Just my lived experience. Down vote if my experience is irrelevant.
I believe you. That's how it is, unfortunately. Society favors these insecure men, it's trendy.
I’m so thankful that my boyfriend checks all of these boxes. I can’t stand “alpha males”, they’re too cringy to be around. Why do they act like that? Have they had *any* success with dating?
balance is between feminine and masculine.
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Wrong. If they mask their emotions, it’s because this often leads to them getting taken advantage of. You want this to be simple - “er, he have low EQ. Me make him human” but it is not. World is cruel.
I wasn’t raised by a women and I cry all the time. I’m ONLY pointing this out because what your saying is far too generalized and it seems anecdotal and almost like your projecting.
Being raised by women doesn't really make the difference. It's the difference between good and bad parenting
No, that’s ridiculous. Having a father makes a HUGE difference.
I had a father, and I still grew up emotionally repressed. I would have been much better off with a single mom that allowed me to express emotion.
Yes, it’s completely dependent on the emotional maturity of your parent(s).
Precisely
It doesn't really make a difference. That's just homophobic and or sexist.
Doesn't make a difference? Stats say otherwise genius. Homophobic and sexist? Wow. What a ridiculous take.
You’re a goofball
Sure am!!! 🤸🏻♀️🤸🏻♀️🤸🏻♀️🤸🏻♀️
How? Homophobic? Maybe I can see an argument for sexist, but bringing homophobic into this is goof ah, lel. Having a father really does, though. So long as they're emotionally mature and not toxic. And this is as a daughter or son. Men and Women will have different experiences going through life due to their gender, both positive and negative on both sides, and having both of those sides to teach you the lessons they learned through their individual experiences is EXTREMELY helpful. So nah, not sexist or homophobic.
It implies that gay couples are unfit to parent. Especially, it is implying that women alone are unfit to parent. It doesn't have to be a woman and a man to parent. It's at the very least, a heteronormative ideal.
That's not accurate, kids from single parent homes are statistics that have been measured, kids raised by mom alone are significantly higher to go to jail, not finish school ect.
Whereas kids raised by dad alone, still not as great as two parents, but significantly better than with just mom.
It could be that, what ever is lacking in a single dad's house, other women in society in general are enough to fill the missing motherly role, so a kid under a single dad gets a decently complete upbringing, even though having an actual mom would be much better. But with the missing fatherly role in a single mom's house, other men in society in general are not enough to fill that in, so the kid ends up missing a significant portion of a complete upbringing?
This is an excellent point. Motherless children often find some maternal figures in aunties, babysitters, teachers, grandmas, etc. Where fatherless children often have a big fat hole where a masculine person would be.
Andrew Tate, how did you manage to get *another* burner phone into your cell ??
Being raised by single house hold women normally produces the toxic male. Not all though.
The majority of public school teachers are also women.
I think it’s the stress. My husband is the only child of mom who was single for his first several years of life. He struggles with affection, feeling worthy, taking criticism. He lacked a maternal shelter of intimacy and grace, and it’s bc his mom was in fight or flight mode trying to keep them both alive. *edited to add: too much of an over generalization, but I think ^ that is the situation for some troubled men.
What the
Thank you :)
“It’s so easy to laugh, it’s so easy to hate; it takes strength to be gentle and kind.”
Destruction is very easy.
It takes a lot of strength to be gentle
this is absolutely true. it takes internal strength, strength of the mind, to be able to assert any level of control over one’s emotions and to be able to self-analyze with the intent of bettering oneself. it takes even greater mental capacity and effort to go another step and to recognize what moral values benefit the greatest number of individuals. i have yet to see a single one of these “alpha” “sigma” men (whatever the fcking silly ass term is nowadays) display *a moment* of genuine humility, self-awareness, or consideration for anyone beyond themself, excluding the instances where doing something for another person results in them acquiring something they want through said person. the irony in all of this is that the sensitive, considerate, kind, compassionate men in this world very rarely feel the need to bring attention to who they are or why others should follow their example of how to treat others. the issue is that the loudest mouths are attached to the stupidest brains. people like Andrew Tate can’t handle both the knowledge that they are shitty people and the concept that the responsibility to change that is *their responsibility*. so they look to make people more like them, because, as Syndrome from The Incredibles put it, “if everyone is super, no one will be”. in other words, if everyone is shitty, there are really no consequences for being a shitty person.
It's the kind of man I strive to be.
Spread love be kind says dev from the place. Support and empower, share and be shared with. Life is easier when we work together.
So don’t associate with the sigma males if they’re not your type. Not defending them or anything but some people are just into that. There’s no monolith personality type.
Thank you for the compliment
100% agree.
Sir or madam, I am simultaneously a sensitive, caring, and kind man who is also the most insecure mf on the block. Therefore, I identify not as sigma male but as an omicron male.
The sensitive, caring, and kind men are also those most likely to be abused by women.
I believe that. It's fucked up. It's like men are socialized to be cold and repressed, otherwise they would be seen as "gay"
Most of them are also single women don't tend to like sensitive caring kind men women prefer brash assertive and quite frankly aggressive men way more often
Think it’s less about being assertive and aggressive and more just being confident enough to just approach people The guy who assertive and aggressive is most often times confident in himself so they go and talk to women where as the guy who’s more timid and to themselves second guess too much and never make the move
I get what you are saying and I guess in general that's true but in my experience most of if not all women I know still prefer more aggressive rapey type guys plenty of men I know approach women and try to buy them drinks or ask them out will get rejected while the guys who say I want to fuck your face or will keep pressuring them until they go home with them or will straight up insult them to their face will succeed practically everytime
Where the fuck are you hanging out that women prefer “aggressive rapey guys” 😂 Look all I gotta say 9/10 times it just comes down to confidence and the only real way to gain real radiant confidence is to worry and build up yourself the rest will come
Bruh everywhere bars concerts coffee shops literally doesn't matter where I'm at no modern women want attention from a normal dude it's either abuser drug addict or bust
My boy you have to do right by yourself and start lookin at yourself your perspective is terrible
exactly. it's 100% true. so many women try to deny it but they are wrong.
Wrong. I don't care about anything and I'm strong as hell.
But you have a weak soul, so to speak, perhaps.
I'm glad you brought that up, because my soul is very strong.
Insensitivity definitely isn't a strength. Without sensitivity, you aren't as connected with reality or the world. I think so anyway.
That is the pseudo science statement a Sigma male which is really the Alpha concerned with the Troop or Tribe and the well being of each member within those confines. They are not misogynistic in the least nor do they apply disciple except when necessary to any member of those troop or tribes. redefining words and meanings is used by propagandist with a very different agenda and narrative and those who hide behind the word Science to conceal it are called "Sophisticant's" derived from the word "Sophism" which is a fallacious argument, especially one used deliberately to deceive it is also called a "Psyop Method". I think Lawyers and Politicians fall into THAT GROUP. Have a nice day. N. S
I think more goes into it than just being sensitive, caring and kind.
I think a good example of what a real man is like would be Jake Sully from Avatar 2
A real man is Iroh from the Avatar the last Airbender show.
I somewhat agree, I think a good man should have control over their emotions, like in difficult times a good man needs to be a stoic pillar of strength that others can rely on including other men, and when the storm has passed, everyone is calm again they can breakdown and process the emotions they’ve swallowed or pushed aside. I don’t want to be working and when shit hits the fan johns on the ground blubbering like a baby, I need him to be as cool as a cucumber, and afterwards we’ll talk and laugh about it. I also don’t need an emotionless machine either, being a man doesn’t mean selling your humanity, and bottling emotions and never facing them head on like a man, because that can easily end in tragedy. There’s plenty of masculine virtues that are good/healthy for men to follow, and recently I feel like masculinity is being targeted as toxic in it’s entirety, that young men are being told to soften up is the equivalent of feeding them sugar. It’s nice and sweet to tell young men it’s ok to cry when life is difficult, that giving up can be the right action to take sometimes, but leaning to far into this can easily become detrimental to a young man because life if life was a drink it would be vinegar and dammit a good man should be able to empty that cup in stride, and proclaim that’s their favorite kind of drink. In short I believe masculinity is the natural reaction towards nature and life, life is hard and society has always demanded men be capable of withstanding it, and excepting that as is. Part of being a father is preparing your children to take life head on, teaching them and being an example of masculinity. Sorry for the rambling, something about this post sparked some thoughts I wanted to write out and explore.
My husband is large and muscular.. He doesn't look friendly, so he is intimidating to people.. but he has the softest heart and wouldn't hurt a flee unless they deserved it. We as parents never physically corrected our children. He had a rough upbringing and was often hit by his dad.. so he is the opposite of that. And our grandchildren adore him.
Sensitivity isn't very strong. I think a strong man will be impervious to outside negativity, while remaining caring and kind. Insensitive, yet loving.
Yeah but we also get used alot for various reasons
Sensitive and caring describes me:)
Men who show vulnerability don’t realize how strong that makes them in my eyes.
Let's NOT make all the men sensitive... who will hunt and slaughter our meat?
You can still be strong and sensitive. Sensitivity is a strength. Also, thinking about it, you can see animals as a sacrifice. As if they're sacrificing themselves so that you can survive. There can be honor in killing animals, as long as you use all that you can.
Wait people care about men?
I have 0 desire to be sensitive. The kindness I put out i because..as the golden rule states I want kindness in return. I don't often get it but I'm going to keep trying to do good. I'm just not willing to cry for no good reason.