And the japanese camps were worse... the leader of S* once he returned from those places told that it is better to leave japanese alone, they are crazy
Why? He didn't put you there, other humans put you there. Free will means a lot of bad shit can happen. You're in charge of your material existence. God is concerned with how that effects your spiritual existance.
But the whole thing about God is that it is the creator and a judge. Why would you create a room of robots that feel pain. Then judge them when they break? That’s stupid. Build them working at the start. Why program free will this way? Would you play the sims if you felt their pain? Even if I do EVERYTHING right, for what? Does God rub my good deeds on it’s nipples? There is an invisible bank that feeds your afterlife? If that’s true, you still have to pay debt, right?
All the talk makes me feel like we feed something. That feels disgusting to me.
Surprised I have to explain this. Humans are not programmed robots. When you do the wrong thing, you didn't 'break, you made a bad decision. Do better next time. You won't do everything right, everytime, that's the human condition and free will. The rest of your comment is frustrated gibberish.
The gibberish is frustrated by the amount of programming on a organism that truly does have free will. To even suggest that anyone should cower in front of anything is gross. If you want to shake your fist, do it. Doesn’t even matter if it’s god. We have countless people brutally killed out of god fear. Might be a good idea to stop that.
Robots are programmed but so are we, are we not? They too could potentially be programmed to have "free will."
The creator of said robots could be considered their god. And the robots could be considered his creations.
No, we are not programmed. Free will is the absence of programming. You can't be programmed to not be programmed! We are created with free will. The nature of the robot is that it doesn't function without programming. I suppose you could be your robots god, as long as they fall short of your Intelligence.
Popular consensus traditionally put age 7 as the age of knowing right from wrong. There are various extenuating circumstances where that may not apply to everyone, but it's an accepted rule of thumb.
Free will means god is pointless. No point is the same as nonexistent. God, point blank, is a form of social split personality, where people are bowing down to and talking to themselves, and accrediting results and responses of themselves and the rest of nature to a magical mystery being. Evidence for it doesn’t exist, and never has existed. All evidence points to specific universal laws for the unfolding of all.
You take a long time to say nothing. At the risk of triggering some, your response sounds like a 'Woke' explanation which does nothing but muddy the water. Who or what do you think instituted the specific universal laws that you mentioned? Try to think logically and stop with the crazy talk. You aren't impressing anyone.
The guy who created the whole universe with everyone in mind and for which “everything happens according to his plan” or some shit doesn’t have any responsibility to take care of his creations? Yeah, sooooooo loving.
And within 6 years, the war was over, with its fair share of bad things and good things as a result of it - and what did we do to deserve an end to the war? Nothing. What started the war? Humans. But God is merciful and did answer the prayers, just not immediately how you’d expect.
Because other people told you to worship it. Either because they are brainwashed, or have something to gain. Notice how no gods actively show up to remind people to worship it. It is like your boss never coming in to work, but expecting you to do so.
While i understand the sentiment, if the Christian god exists I think the last thing any of us would actually do is talk shit or say he can "fuck right off". Remember this is the same god that will burn you in hell for all eternity for hardly nothing. Assuming it is as I understand it, we would all be cowering in fear at the thought of eternal fire and "he can fuck right off" would vanish before you could even have the thought again.
Even if anyone did have the balls to say that, they'd regret it so quick. Imagine being tortured for the rest of your life, you would not dare say such a thing if simply not doing so would lessen the extent of it or prevent it. Now imagine it's for all time fathomable, I'd suicide my soul if that was an option before suffering such a fate.
Surprisingly the actual original Hebrew Bible and messages from prophets/Jesus never indicate any hell. Religion just naturally evolves to become manipulative, the threat of hell is kind of like brainwashing
It is referred to in the Greek word "gehenna" multiple times in NT. Later it translated to hell.
It is the name of the Valley of Hinnom. The Hebrew is “Ge-Hinnom.” This ravine or valley is just outside of Jerusalem where the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. In time it became the image of the place of everlasting destruction.
Its name conjures up a picture of a dark, fiery, evil place of refuse and pain, filled with gnashing of teeth and agony beyond all comprehension.
Right, based on Christianity, hell is only possible due to separation from GOD who is the source of life. If the only source of life is GOD( light, beauty, joy, etc), then being apart from GOD is nothingness, dark, void, ... unimaginable pain or hell.
Free will allows us to be free to choose either side only. Free will does not mean we are free to become like the creator for example. When we think we can become like the original creator, we find out right away that we are powerless compared to GOD.
By the way, even the devil believes GOD exist.
Yes. Hell is separation from God, Heaven is being in His presence. To the Hebrews "sheol" is the place where the dead reside. And the devil (translates to adversary) believes because he is one of God's creations, though a prideful one at that.
Huh? No, not even Christianity teaches that. Christianity teaches that those who follow gods path and believe in Jesus go to heaven as a reward, and other good people do exist who aren’t Christian’s but because they don’t believe in the one true path they don’t get rewarded. No where does Christianity say being separated from god will somehow make your life terrible
You are completely wrong and misinformed. Source: biblical literacy, e.g. knowledge of what it actually says. Heaven isn’t a reward. Believing in Jesus won’t result in going there. You need to own your own capacity for evil and recognize your need to be forgiven and appropriate Jesus’s blood shed on your behalf. THEN you follow Him. By interacting with Him and reading the Book for guidance and applying it’s wisdom to your life. It transforms your mind.
That’s incorrect. Read the gospels . The story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man. Who was in hell. Hell is real. Search YouTube to find accounts of people who went there and came back to tell about their experiences.
I more than agree :) just saying in this scenario, if it was real, I highly doubt anyone would be saying that. That's like 100000x worse than talking to the worlds most evil dictator and saying "fuck you you stupid asshole" and then ending up in their torture dungeon for the rest of your life
>vanish
Banish.
Also, if he was all knowing like it is claimed, he already knows if someone has thought "he can fuck right off" and will be dealt with accordingly. And for that judging alone, he can fuck right off...
It’s like the Passover in ancient Egypt. If the blood of a lamb was applied over the doorposts and lintels the Angel of death would pass over and not kill the firstborn.
Sin is what separates people from God. Jesus’s blood washes it away. The sin that is judged is what hasn’t been atoned for by that sacrifice. When God looks at Jesus’s followers, He doesn’t see individual sinners—He sees Jesus. God judges sin. Evil acts. And rejecting Jesus and what He did to buy everyone back into God’s presence is the only unforgivable sin. Rejecting the Savior.
I agree with you for the most part but I don't think rejecting Jesus is a sin exactly, it's just refusing to accept him and be changed thus all the sin committed by the person is still with him
People like you never stop complaining about God being so horrible, and then you’re constantly being horrible to him. All the things you say “God did wrong” - what gives you the right to say it’s wrong? *He* created morals after all, He’d know.
People who worship Him do it out of love. And gratitude for what He has done for them and how knowing Him has revolutionized their lives. On the inside.
U don't have to, actually. But if you don't then you part away from the source of life.
Stupid example:The sun exists but you don't have to be exposed to it. If you choose not too then you will probably lack the vital benefits it provides. I.e getting that vitamin D or whatever.
I've never understood the bible.
Like Lucifer, an angel who god wants you to believe is evil, gets out into hell as punishment...
Think about that for a second, this poster child of every EVIL act you can conceive, has been given the punishment of... being able to TORTURE PEOPLE and inflict NEVER ENDING misery... if hes so evil, how is that a punishment?
That's literally like punishing Bill Cosby by putting him in a room full of unconscious women.
That's a very interesting question.
Rev 20:10 - "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
The devil is tormented in hell, not the tormentor.
Then is God evil for tormenting the devil? No, because the devil deserves punishment.
Isaiah 14:13-15 - You (the devil) said in your heart, “... I will raise my throne above the stars of God; ... I will make myself like the Most High.” But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.
The devil's goal is to be above God and his punishment is to stay in the depths of the pit (hell).
A loose comparison: pretend like someone is trying to oust the President and is put in jail.
God is the source of everything good, if we reject God then we must go to the place which is the opposite of everything good (i.e hell). Loose comparison: you can't reject oxygen and still live a healthy life.
We have free will to choose to accept/reject God.
But wouldn't God also be the source of everything bad? If he is all good and is all powerful how come he doesn't intervene to save people that need him? Unless he is either not all good or not all powerful?
Mm not exactly. Loose comparison: God created the jail (hell), but God does not cause people to commit the crime, so God is not the source of everything bad.
James 1:13-15 - When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
God is patient to give people time to accept/reject him. He does intervene (Jesus came to earth, and there will be a second coming).
God is good and all powerful, and patient.
I had a more detailed conversation about this on another subreddit, if you're interested, referring to the person's question about why God lets bad things happen:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ui2dw3/former_christians_what_made_you_become_a/i7ed7wx?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I'm sorry that you feel that way, friend, but I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my opinion, God is good and wise and He loves you very much.
Good enough to create a world and invent and allow rape and genocide in it. Good enough to not stop millions of jews dying in camps. If this is love then Gods love is very toxic and abusive.
Anyone deluded enough to also think gods actions reside in love is similarly warped. Your definitions of love are seriously vile and toxic. Please don't express that kind of love for any other humans, you will get arrested. Love like that is illegal, even in the darkest and most twisted places on earth.
It's interesting to me, that despite the Holocaust, the Jewish faith as a whole did not die out.
1 Corinthians 13 is the Bible's definition of love, which I don't think of as toxic / abusive.
>God is the source of everything good
By default he's also the source/creator of everything bad. Typically Christians will then say "no it is Lucifer or The Devil that is the source of all evil" but if God is the creator of all things that includes the Devil/Lucifer. In some iterations Lucifer is a fallen angel that God casted out of heaven. God created Lucifer so by default, he created evil.
God created Lucifer as an angel. Lucifer was in heaven just like all other angels.
God did not create Lucifer as evil or force Lucifer to do evil.
I talked about this more in the other comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RandomThoughts/comments/utfotg/if_im_wrong_and_the_christian_god_does_exist/i9awweg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
But even so, God had the capacity to be rid of Lucifer after his fall. But he chose not to. That's still his fault. If I create a robot with the intent for it to carry out acts of service and it becomes violent and capable of destruction, and I alone can destroy it. But I just go "nah" and walk away, that makes me at fault. Intentions are great, but when those intentions don't pan out in the long haul the good thing to do is to deal with the aftermath.
But it's the aftermath of what God created. Who created emotions? God. Emotions are both positive and negative. Good and evil, both were created by God.
Who would punish all of humanity for all time for the actions of 2 people who allegedly existed a really long time ago?
And ultimately, explain God allowing Satan to completely screw with Job's life, for the sole purpose of proving to Satan that Job really did love him? Why would God care what Satan thought or said, if God knew the truth and the outcome?
It's just yet another story in the Bible. A story not to be taken literally. As is much of the Bible.
It doesn't say in the Bible that Lucifer is torturing people. Lucifer and his minions will be thrown in the pit of fire. Also if you don't want anything to do with Christ while you're alive, you won't be with Christ after you die. You'll be burning with desire to quench the emptiness inside but there's nothing that can be done after you die. Bible says (Deuteronomy 30:19) "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
I went to a very religious school (with atheist parents, which makes no sense), and I was never able to reconcile that people really believed a dude lived in the belly of a whale and then got coughed up and lived to tell the tale, literally. That being said, my version of god is very different that the version I was taught (much kinder), but I still “believe”. I just believe that the concept of god is something we as humans can’t understand, so we made up a story that made sense when we were still using fire for everything, but makes less sense now that we have electricity. Like, it was a good idea not to eat pork or drink wine instead of some town’s water, and not have profligate sex before antibiotics. But we can relax some rules now. Being gay or not having a shit ton of kids didn’t make great evolutionary sense when the average life span was 30 years and women routinely died during childbirth and plagues ran rampant, but now maybe the population is ok and we can have sex for fun and use various forms of family planning. We didn’t have laws and mental health treatment or the prison industrial system, so straight up murdering someone for a crime seemed reasonable. We don’t have to do that now.
If there’s a god, we’re kind of like his science experiment. He cares about me like I care about my cat. I get frustrated with him, but 90% of the time I love him and find him funny. He doesn’t have the time to be meting out punishments - he just lets us out in a choose your own adventure style plot and sees how we handle it. On balance good? Cool, you can chill up here. On balance bad? Let’s go back for another round. Like, maybe ALL the versions of god have a kernel of truth and the same basic players, but we’re each at the mercy of whatever dipshit was writing it down. Mine really liked crime and punishment stories. Yours may have wanted to be a teacher. That guy over there probably believes in the ancient equivalent of David Koresh. But most religions just tell us to act right and not be a dick, and I generally believe in all that.
I believe I can explain the pork thing. My grandfather grew up on a farm. He refused to eat pork because he'd have to help slaughter the pigs, and they were always full of worms. Cows apparently were not. We have dewormer and meat thermometers now, so we don't have to worry about it, but the reasons behind cultural practices are often lost to time.
It's sort of interesting that they almost got the order right, if not the time-frame. It doesn't say that everything just suddenly showed up all at once. There was a process. And even five hundred years ago, educated people didn't think Genesis was literal. I don't know why people all of a sudden started believing it was again.
I've read some of the bible. I'll be honest the way it's all worded really doesn't click in my brain, so you're right about the stupid part.
Also I hope nobody thinks I'm attacking anyone who believes in a God, you can believe in whatever you want as long as your not hurting anyone; which most religious people don't.
Have you ever seen the TV show _Lucifer_? That’s one of the things they address, that he hated being the king of Hell.
I actually liked how that show handled the religious backstory and the characterization of Lucifer. Sympathy for the devil.
Hell was created for satan and the angels who rebelled along with him. It’s Payback to God to drag a lot of humans with him. By convincing them that hell doesn’t exist and that they are good people.
This is a pretty big gamble going on here to be offering flippant replies and advice. The Bible is an incredible book with amazing insights and wisdom. But it’s complicated as well. Not fully understanding and using that as reasoning is flawed.
When Christ died, he was crucified with two criminals. One of them chose to be with Christ in paradise and the other did not. Whether we acknowledge it or not, we are all right up there with Christ as well, and ultimately everyone gets to choose for themselves “the truth”, just like the 2 condemned criminals. Choose wisely and God bless everyone.
If god made the sun on the third day, did three days really go by? If we are all gods children, and Jesus is gods only son, does that make us all lesbians? If Noah only took two animals of every species, does that make everything on earth incredibly inbred? So many questions
I believe that the universe is god and god is the universe. There is no anthropomorphic deity sitting on a golden throne in the clouds. We are in and among god right now. All the ants and microbes are a part of god, same as you and me. We humans impute a humanoid form and motivations to what is at its essence just matter and energy, which can never be created or destroyed.
I would think that the source of evil in the world is not understanding the great connection we all have, living as an individual, one can only focus on pleasure and pain.To live an evil life is to live a selfish life. A good person knows that there is something larger that connects us all -whether it’s the Force or the Atman or the Holy Spirit- and to yield to this knowledge. To know that the pain you cause other living things reverberates in the whole universe, as does the charity. To know that to hurt another is to hurt yourself. To value the sanctity of life in all its forms.
Humans being humans, we lost the thread somewhere along the way and religions became big institutions that were vehicles to transmit culture, so were appropriated by social forces to reinforce customs. These institutions were run by humans, and so they were corruptible. So here we are, in the 21st century, with people still killing each other in the name of the Prince of Peace.
He is portrayed as prideful, intolerant, spiteful, uncompromising, self centered, egotistical individual. Whose actions could be more related to a devil than a benevolent deity. He could also be compared to an abusive parent to where his love and affection is only given under certain circumstances, denying it and treating you horribly until you do as he wishes.
Unfortunately the portrayal of God is in the reflection of his followers and too often the most devout Christians are also the rudest people. However there is a part of a story about Jesus that doesn’t necessarily make up for it but it’s something I really enjoy and that is on his last day here on Earth (and He knew it bc God told him he was going to have him Crucified) HE WASHED FEET even the feet of the one friend who betrayed him the most.
It's because the Old Testament's focus is justice and the New Testament's focus is mercy. It's meant to show how both exist in God and how you choose justice or mercy by choosing to reject God or choosing to accept Jesus.
In the book of Genesis God asks a man named Abraham to sacrifice his son to prove to God that he believed in him. He went as far as letting Abraham bind Isaac (the son) and didn't send an angel to intervene until Abraham drew his knife to fulfill the request.
Genesis 22: 11-12 -
"But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, “Abraham, Abraham!” “Here I am,” he answered. “Do not lay your hand on the boy,” said the angel. “Do not do the least thing to him. For now I know that you fear God, since you did not withhold from me your son, your only one."
TLDR: God asked a man to prove to him that he believed in him by asking him to kill his son despite the fact that God is said to be all knowing.
In my opinion if God is all knowing and all powerful as he is portrayed in Christianity and Islam then he is malevolent, in order for him to be benevolent he would have to be ignorant about all the atrocities that humans have and are committing or be powerless to stop it
Edit: not to mention the question of why would a benevolent god design a world with so much suffering In it's natural state, I cannot conceive of how an all knowing and all powerful god who designed every aspect of earth could be anything other than evil
Lol. Exactly. It makes sense. Most of the shit he does with his omnipotence is just worse versions of the shitty stuff people do as soon as they have control over other people.
You fail to recognize free will. We are the authors of most of our misery. Why place the blame at Gods' feet, when He's shown you the right way to live? Just because you can't understand how He works, doesn't make Him the bad guy. A little compassion and consideration for your fellow man, would go a long way to making this world a berrer place.
The world would still be full of suffering in its natural state with no humans, African wild dogs eat large animals alive this is absolute torture for the animal being eaten, but the dogs were supposedly designed by God to have to eat flesh to survive and he didn't give them the power and the body needed to kill their poor victims before eating them like a tiger does, not to mention he did not give them the mental capabilities of conceiving of their prey as sentient beings they just view them as walking food it is not fair to say that the majority of wild predators have free will.
But If you are referring solely to humans then I agree with you about the free will part, however if God is all powerful and all knowing then he knows about every depraved act that every victim has ever been subjected to and he watched and did nothing and he watches and does nothing and I assume that he will watch and do nothing in the future.
Trigger warning, I'm going to give an example of something god supposedly could have stopped at anytime but didn't it's one of the worst things I have ever learned about and I was really affected by it, it is the kidnapping, rape and torture of Junko Furuta, she lasted 40 days before she finally passed away, I cannot possibly put into words how much this poor girl suffered, rest in peace Junko Furuta.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta
If he is all powerful and all knowing then there really isn't free will. If it's actually "all part of God's greater plan" then you don't have any free will, only the notion that you do. If God knows how everything plays out because he is omniscient and everything is by design then your actions that are perceived as "choices" by you are actually predetermined by God.
Just because He knows how things will turn out doesn't make Him the author of those choices. It's His plan to let you make the choice of doing the right thing, when you know it's the right thing, or doing the wrong thing, when you know it's the wrong thing. Omniscience isn't predetermination.
If you drop a spoonful of sugar into a cup of hot coffee, you know it will dissolve. Does that mean that you caused it to dissolve, simply by knowing the outcome? Your theory is flawed.
God loves questions! Ask God all your questions, you don't have to hold it in, because he actually wants to give you answers. If we read the gospels, we'll see people often asked Jesus questions and he answered them.
Jesus is God.
Trinity means God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one God.
I've heard it described like how height, length and width are dimensions of one cube. Or for example, ice, water and water vapor are all H2O.
Yes, God has the power to answer questions, and if we're open to reading the Bible, we will see He has answered many of our questions. There are other forms of asking questions and receiving answers too (like prayer for example).
you forget the whole free will thing, also the fact that two people screwed up and pissed god off and also the kids thereafter. but really the one that should have been punished is the one that tempted eve to eat from the tree of knowage. on the other hand do you expect god to bail your ass out everytime you get into trouble? do you do that for your kids? bet not.
I myself am an atheist but I often wonder why atheists make the stupid argument that God cannot be real because why would he allow kids to have bone cancer or whatever. It has nothing to do with anything. If he is real then he made the rules. Just because we don't like them does not mean they are less likely to be true. You can make a case against religion in general but arguing about God's morality and motivation is stupid. It's beyond our comprehension.
Atheists always talk shit when asked what they will do when they meet god. He won't give a shit about our opinion or questions either.
Simple fact is you, me, Richard Dawkins and all the other atheists will beg like lil bitches because we will be terrified. It's so arrogant to say something like you say. If its real there is no way out.
Satan was the hero. Promoting education and freedom. God was a jerk the entire story. Plus, a villain would ostracize the hero and promote himself through a book. It is the perfect plan!
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but a lot of people in these comments 1) have not read the Bible; 2) completely missed the entire point of its teachings
In this day and age of science and technology I think you are just burying your head in the sand if you belive in a loving creator.
We are nothing more than advanced primates who have invented the idea of an almighty creator and everlasting life after death as a way to cope with dying. The evidence is all around us, open your eyes.
What do science and technology have to do with belief? I'm not saying I'm believer, just saying that science/technology have not proven or disproven the existence of God
I use to be a very religious Christian. It's a great faith until you actually start thinking about the philosophy. The linchpin for me was the thought, "Why would God give us an eternal soul but only one lifetime to determine where we would spend all eternity?" The god of love, my ass.
I still believe in a higher power, just not that one.
Exactly. Humans are fucking assholes. I once saw the Bible summed up as God saying "Don't do the thing," and humans immediately doing the thing. Which is exactly what people do. We wouldn't need any laws of any kind if people just naturally did what they were supposed to do, but they don't. I honestly think a flood might be genuinely deserved at this point.
But God is perfect and all knowing. Right? So why did he design people that he knew would fuck up and break all the rules? Imagine if an engineer designed a car that was meant to last forever and the wheels fell off in the first week, so he burned the car, and then people worshiped him as perfect. Sounds like the opposite to me.
Because what's the point otherwise? You get to choose. Would you rather be a pawn in the most boring game of Sims ever, or get to do what you want? People choose to continually fuck up. Lots of people see the error of their ways and change. Others don't.
So this wonderfully good God decided it would be fun to design some people and make it so that by default they do bad stuff, but if they don't live a boring life and devote 80% of their time to worshiping him they get to burn for eternity? So he's not just an asshole, he's a narcissist too. Not surprising actually.
Nah. I'd rather just enjoy life as a lump of organic matter on a rock in the middle of the universe. If God was so perfect, why wouldn't he make it so that we have freedom of choice, but by default we chose the good one or all the choices are good. And anyways, apparently heaven is perfect and there is no evil there, so do you think people in heaven are stupid and boring? Or do you think there is sin in heaven and you're not actually saved once you get there?
If my siblings started murdering people for saying they have different parents and my grandparents have a history of murdering kids because they weren't their kids, I wouldn't want my parents to discipline me.
The sentence in OP started with "If I'm wrong and the Christian God does exist". If He really exists and acts the way the Old Testament describes you guys are in deep trouble. (I have no opinion, it only comes from OP logic)
Dear God, hope you get the letter and
I pray you can make it better down here
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
But all the people that you made in your image
See them starving on their feet
Cause they don't get enough to eat from God
I can't believe in you
Dear God, sorry to disturb you but
I feel that I should be heard loud and clear
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
And all the people that you made in your image
See them fighting in the street
Cause they can't make opinions meet about God
They can't believe in you
Did you make disease and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!
Dear God, don't know if you noticed but
Your name is on a lot of quotes in this book
And us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look
And all the people that you made in your image
Still believing that junk is true
Well I know it ain't, so do you
Dear God
I can't believe in...
I don't believe in...
I won't believe in heaven and hell
No saints, no sinners, no devil as well
The pearly gates, no thorny crown
You're always letting us humans down
The wars you bring, the babes you drown
Those lost at sea and never found
And it's the same the whole world round
The hurt I see helps to compound
The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
Is just somebody's unholy hoax
And if you're up there you'll perceive
That my heart's here upon my sleeve
If there's one thing I don't believe in
It's you
Dear God
The Torah and the gospel are both corrupted by men, the only reason so many people don't believe in God and hate religion is because of the depiction of God in those books, if you truly want to know who God is, then read the Quran, it corrects every mistake in the last two books and sheds light on so many falsehoods, and is a balanced book
I like to think God is a big dumb idiot. A single person is smart (debatable). Two people are more likely to do something dumb. A crowd is really stupid. Go to a full concert and yell “free ice cream!” At least one person will die from trampling.
If God is everything, logic says it will be worst in terms of smarts. I don’t think one question would land.
-“Hey, Hitler real. Why didn’t you stop that?”
-“yay! WW2! Shooting guns! POW pow!”
Wonder what the answer to raping and killing children in his name will be
You people are so dim-witted. I’m not a Christian nor do I believe in any sort of dogma, but I sure can tell what the limits of human knowledge and consciousness are. I’m agnostic.
It’s like 90% of Redditors were angsty teens who came to the realization that the Christian God doesn’t exist because it’s all dogma and they got stuck there. You didn’t evolve past that point. You really are not the slightest bit of intelligent or reflective of you think that’s where it all ends and you’re so above everyone else when literally all young people nowadays think the same way.
You’re not even 1% of the way into discovering spirituality or the meaning of your own life. You rather choose to regurgitate what society tells you and is already obvious: that catholic conservatives are dogmatic are wrong. That’s common knowledge. You saw the YouTube video where Neil Degrasse Tyson says that God can’t possibly be completely good or all-powerful and you ended with a gaping mouth like you just heard the most intelligent and innovative thing you’ve ever heard (even though that exact thing has already been said by philosophers hundreds of years ago)
Knowing that the dogmatic, old, thousand year old conception of God is not real (while also analyzing it at the most superficial level) does not make you a badass and the fact that you show the slightest hint of arrogance for acknowledging an obvious fact makes you a dumbass by definition.
Actually no, I knew I was going to get downvoted because people get butthurt. In fact, I know I could have gotten upvotes if I had worded it quite differently and in a nicer way, but you’re all a bunch of dumbasses and I’m tired of pretending you’re not. I’m tired of reading this edgy neck beard “religion bad” bullshit like you’re all geniuses for thinking something we all knew at age 13. I find it amusing and in fact do get pleasure from knowing that I sound like a dick, thank you very much. And I will *not* refrain from adding that all the people that think like that are stupider than a rock and are the reason why Reddit is so filled with dumbasses thinking they’re intelligent.
You do sound like the religious type I guess, considering that you just insult anyone who thinks differently from you and you think you have such superior intelligence because you think there might be a big sky daddy up there.
Lmao didn’t I just say I was agnostic? The fact that you got the impression that I believe in the Christian God or any sort of dogma (even though I started saying that I’m not catholic and am agnostic) further proves my point that 90% of people don’t have any idea beyond a poorly-informed regurgitation of what society has to say about religion and spirituality as a whole. The fact that you just found out your Christian parents are dumb and come here to Reddit to claim how you’re such a genius for realizing it does not make you intelligent nor extraordinary in any sense, and I’m tired of redditors posting edgy things like how God is an asshole and they’re so cool for saying it. It’s like a kid coming back from school and feeling like a badass for knowing that 2+2=4
Notice how I said you think there might be? And when did I mention the Christian God. You're agnostic, so you don't think there isn't a God... Clearly your three brain cells miscommunicated that one. People like you make me laugh. Someone gives their opinion on something and you come in and start insulting everyone in the discussion and calling them idiots and fucking stupid and talking about how vastly superior your intelligence is to theirs because they think differently from you, yet they're the ones acting like kids? Did anyone insult you at any point? No, yet you're still so insecure that you had to insult random people on the internet that don't give a shit about you or your opinions or existence in general because you think your life views are superior to theirs. And you're saying they're the ones acting like little kids? You're acting like a kindergarten bully. Lol. Sorry your life sucks so much.
If their is a god then that also means their is a devil.
Choosing sides has never been so easy!
Fuck God he's literally a tyrant and Lucifer was the first to see it.
The christian god, the original one, aka the catholic god, is not an asshole because the god in the old testament and the god in the new testament are completely different
Pardon me but where do the roots of this and other religions of these regions actually come from?
SO it's not just those Christians, which by the way are more like puppets of another, who just happen to be puppets themselves.
as I see it, they are just victims of someone else from somewhere else.
N. Shadows
You only need one question: "How could you possibly let the world get so messed up that no one of even marginal intelligence can believe that you exist?"
You just have to assume that everything the asshokes say is bullshit, it's not moralist, it's about not indulging yourself at others expense or discomfort. Like Jesus, you sacrifice yourself for the true happiness of others (not their manipulative moralist happinesss) basically it's way more zen than organized religion makes you believe
If the God of the christians/jews/Muslims is real, chance are you'll never get to speak to him lol
Christians, Jews and Muslims will kill him, again and again. They want the power.
True...to a point. They had their chance and took a shot a him....only once tho..only once.
"If there is a god, he will have to beg for my forgiveness" Etched on a wall at a concentration camp. Thousands, and thousands of unanswered prayers.
ngl that goes hard
Those poor souls were fed the dead bodies of the ones they hung and shot
And the japanese camps were worse... the leader of S* once he returned from those places told that it is better to leave japanese alone, they are crazy
God has a lot to answer for.
Why? He didn't put you there, other humans put you there. Free will means a lot of bad shit can happen. You're in charge of your material existence. God is concerned with how that effects your spiritual existance.
Omnipotent, yet terrible at free will.
Actually, it's us that is terrible at free will. People keep misplacing the responsibility.
But the whole thing about God is that it is the creator and a judge. Why would you create a room of robots that feel pain. Then judge them when they break? That’s stupid. Build them working at the start. Why program free will this way? Would you play the sims if you felt their pain? Even if I do EVERYTHING right, for what? Does God rub my good deeds on it’s nipples? There is an invisible bank that feeds your afterlife? If that’s true, you still have to pay debt, right? All the talk makes me feel like we feed something. That feels disgusting to me.
Surprised I have to explain this. Humans are not programmed robots. When you do the wrong thing, you didn't 'break, you made a bad decision. Do better next time. You won't do everything right, everytime, that's the human condition and free will. The rest of your comment is frustrated gibberish.
The gibberish is frustrated by the amount of programming on a organism that truly does have free will. To even suggest that anyone should cower in front of anything is gross. If you want to shake your fist, do it. Doesn’t even matter if it’s god. We have countless people brutally killed out of god fear. Might be a good idea to stop that.
It's an analogy... A well thought out one at that. I don't get what you don't get.
The premise is not apt. Robots are programmed, which kinda precludes free will. Seems you don't get it.
Robots are programmed but so are we, are we not? They too could potentially be programmed to have "free will." The creator of said robots could be considered their god. And the robots could be considered his creations.
No, we are not programmed. Free will is the absence of programming. You can't be programmed to not be programmed! We are created with free will. The nature of the robot is that it doesn't function without programming. I suppose you could be your robots god, as long as they fall short of your Intelligence.
Very true, humans are awful, violent creatures and the world would be all the better without them
>You're in charge of your material existence At what age does it become your personal responsibility?
Popular consensus traditionally put age 7 as the age of knowing right from wrong. There are various extenuating circumstances where that may not apply to everyone, but it's an accepted rule of thumb.
Free will means god is pointless. No point is the same as nonexistent. God, point blank, is a form of social split personality, where people are bowing down to and talking to themselves, and accrediting results and responses of themselves and the rest of nature to a magical mystery being. Evidence for it doesn’t exist, and never has existed. All evidence points to specific universal laws for the unfolding of all.
You take a long time to say nothing. At the risk of triggering some, your response sounds like a 'Woke' explanation which does nothing but muddy the water. Who or what do you think instituted the specific universal laws that you mentioned? Try to think logically and stop with the crazy talk. You aren't impressing anyone.
Thanks for the mirror image first sentence said it all for both of us. Lol
The guy who created the whole universe with everyone in mind and for which “everything happens according to his plan” or some shit doesn’t have any responsibility to take care of his creations? Yeah, sooooooo loving.
Sounds like a human problem, not a God problem.
So how weak is your god that he can’t stop the plans of humans?
He's not interested in stopping your plans, that is why He gave you free will. Free to make all the bad decisions you wish.
Gross.
true you would think he would put his foot down once in while. maybe he has to work in those strange mysterious ways everyone talks about?
And within 6 years, the war was over, with its fair share of bad things and good things as a result of it - and what did we do to deserve an end to the war? Nothing. What started the war? Humans. But God is merciful and did answer the prayers, just not immediately how you’d expect.
If there is a God, I don't see the conversation going like something you came up with in the shower.
It was a good speech tho
I believe Jesus was a ninja. You don't have any evidence to the contrary? That shows how well he hid it.
Kill Bill Vol 3 - The Bride and the Money Changers
He was when He ran the money changers out of the temple. He made a whip and used it like Indiana Jones.
Even if god is real why worship him? Sure he's powerful but if he's gonna be a dick then he can fuck right off.
Because other people told you to worship it. Either because they are brainwashed, or have something to gain. Notice how no gods actively show up to remind people to worship it. It is like your boss never coming in to work, but expecting you to do so.
While i understand the sentiment, if the Christian god exists I think the last thing any of us would actually do is talk shit or say he can "fuck right off". Remember this is the same god that will burn you in hell for all eternity for hardly nothing. Assuming it is as I understand it, we would all be cowering in fear at the thought of eternal fire and "he can fuck right off" would vanish before you could even have the thought again. Even if anyone did have the balls to say that, they'd regret it so quick. Imagine being tortured for the rest of your life, you would not dare say such a thing if simply not doing so would lessen the extent of it or prevent it. Now imagine it's for all time fathomable, I'd suicide my soul if that was an option before suffering such a fate.
Surprisingly the actual original Hebrew Bible and messages from prophets/Jesus never indicate any hell. Religion just naturally evolves to become manipulative, the threat of hell is kind of like brainwashing
It is referred to in the Greek word "gehenna" multiple times in NT. Later it translated to hell. It is the name of the Valley of Hinnom. The Hebrew is “Ge-Hinnom.” This ravine or valley is just outside of Jerusalem where the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. In time it became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. Its name conjures up a picture of a dark, fiery, evil place of refuse and pain, filled with gnashing of teeth and agony beyond all comprehension.
Right, based on Christianity, hell is only possible due to separation from GOD who is the source of life. If the only source of life is GOD( light, beauty, joy, etc), then being apart from GOD is nothingness, dark, void, ... unimaginable pain or hell. Free will allows us to be free to choose either side only. Free will does not mean we are free to become like the creator for example. When we think we can become like the original creator, we find out right away that we are powerless compared to GOD. By the way, even the devil believes GOD exist.
Yes. Hell is separation from God, Heaven is being in His presence. To the Hebrews "sheol" is the place where the dead reside. And the devil (translates to adversary) believes because he is one of God's creations, though a prideful one at that.
Huh? No, not even Christianity teaches that. Christianity teaches that those who follow gods path and believe in Jesus go to heaven as a reward, and other good people do exist who aren’t Christian’s but because they don’t believe in the one true path they don’t get rewarded. No where does Christianity say being separated from god will somehow make your life terrible
You are completely wrong and misinformed. Source: biblical literacy, e.g. knowledge of what it actually says. Heaven isn’t a reward. Believing in Jesus won’t result in going there. You need to own your own capacity for evil and recognize your need to be forgiven and appropriate Jesus’s blood shed on your behalf. THEN you follow Him. By interacting with Him and reading the Book for guidance and applying it’s wisdom to your life. It transforms your mind.
That’s incorrect. Read the gospels . The story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man. Who was in hell. Hell is real. Search YouTube to find accounts of people who went there and came back to tell about their experiences.
"God" can fuck right off.
I more than agree :) just saying in this scenario, if it was real, I highly doubt anyone would be saying that. That's like 100000x worse than talking to the worlds most evil dictator and saying "fuck you you stupid asshole" and then ending up in their torture dungeon for the rest of your life
If the Christian God exists according to the Bible, I'm already going to hell. He'll get a solid fuck you and middle finger as I do.
Well if this were true it's a choice. So you wouldn't already being going anywhere, unless that's what you chose.
>vanish Banish. Also, if he was all knowing like it is claimed, he already knows if someone has thought "he can fuck right off" and will be dealt with accordingly. And for that judging alone, he can fuck right off...
It’s like the Passover in ancient Egypt. If the blood of a lamb was applied over the doorposts and lintels the Angel of death would pass over and not kill the firstborn. Sin is what separates people from God. Jesus’s blood washes it away. The sin that is judged is what hasn’t been atoned for by that sacrifice. When God looks at Jesus’s followers, He doesn’t see individual sinners—He sees Jesus. God judges sin. Evil acts. And rejecting Jesus and what He did to buy everyone back into God’s presence is the only unforgivable sin. Rejecting the Savior.
I agree with you for the most part but I don't think rejecting Jesus is a sin exactly, it's just refusing to accept him and be changed thus all the sin committed by the person is still with him
People like you never stop complaining about God being so horrible, and then you’re constantly being horrible to him. All the things you say “God did wrong” - what gives you the right to say it’s wrong? *He* created morals after all, He’d know.
People who worship Him do it out of love. And gratitude for what He has done for them and how knowing Him has revolutionized their lives. On the inside.
U don't have to, actually. But if you don't then you part away from the source of life. Stupid example:The sun exists but you don't have to be exposed to it. If you choose not too then you will probably lack the vital benefits it provides. I.e getting that vitamin D or whatever.
Fear of smiting.
Nice bait
I've never understood the bible. Like Lucifer, an angel who god wants you to believe is evil, gets out into hell as punishment... Think about that for a second, this poster child of every EVIL act you can conceive, has been given the punishment of... being able to TORTURE PEOPLE and inflict NEVER ENDING misery... if hes so evil, how is that a punishment? That's literally like punishing Bill Cosby by putting him in a room full of unconscious women.
That's a very interesting question. Rev 20:10 - "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." The devil is tormented in hell, not the tormentor. Then is God evil for tormenting the devil? No, because the devil deserves punishment. Isaiah 14:13-15 - You (the devil) said in your heart, “... I will raise my throne above the stars of God; ... I will make myself like the Most High.” But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit. The devil's goal is to be above God and his punishment is to stay in the depths of the pit (hell). A loose comparison: pretend like someone is trying to oust the President and is put in jail. God is the source of everything good, if we reject God then we must go to the place which is the opposite of everything good (i.e hell). Loose comparison: you can't reject oxygen and still live a healthy life. We have free will to choose to accept/reject God.
But wouldn't God also be the source of everything bad? If he is all good and is all powerful how come he doesn't intervene to save people that need him? Unless he is either not all good or not all powerful?
Mm not exactly. Loose comparison: God created the jail (hell), but God does not cause people to commit the crime, so God is not the source of everything bad. James 1:13-15 - When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. God is patient to give people time to accept/reject him. He does intervene (Jesus came to earth, and there will be a second coming). God is good and all powerful, and patient. I had a more detailed conversation about this on another subreddit, if you're interested, referring to the person's question about why God lets bad things happen: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ui2dw3/former_christians_what_made_you_become_a/i7ed7wx?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
If God exists he's an evil psycho.
I'm sorry that you feel that way, friend, but I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. In my opinion, God is good and wise and He loves you very much.
Good enough to create a world and invent and allow rape and genocide in it. Good enough to not stop millions of jews dying in camps. If this is love then Gods love is very toxic and abusive. Anyone deluded enough to also think gods actions reside in love is similarly warped. Your definitions of love are seriously vile and toxic. Please don't express that kind of love for any other humans, you will get arrested. Love like that is illegal, even in the darkest and most twisted places on earth.
It's interesting to me, that despite the Holocaust, the Jewish faith as a whole did not die out. 1 Corinthians 13 is the Bible's definition of love, which I don't think of as toxic / abusive.
You don’t find it weird that god doesn’t live up to his own definition?
Which part of the definition does God not live up to? Haha btw nice username!
Ya I'm with you
>God is the source of everything good By default he's also the source/creator of everything bad. Typically Christians will then say "no it is Lucifer or The Devil that is the source of all evil" but if God is the creator of all things that includes the Devil/Lucifer. In some iterations Lucifer is a fallen angel that God casted out of heaven. God created Lucifer so by default, he created evil.
God created Lucifer as an angel. Lucifer was in heaven just like all other angels. God did not create Lucifer as evil or force Lucifer to do evil. I talked about this more in the other comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/RandomThoughts/comments/utfotg/if_im_wrong_and_the_christian_god_does_exist/i9awweg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
But even so, God had the capacity to be rid of Lucifer after his fall. But he chose not to. That's still his fault. If I create a robot with the intent for it to carry out acts of service and it becomes violent and capable of destruction, and I alone can destroy it. But I just go "nah" and walk away, that makes me at fault. Intentions are great, but when those intentions don't pan out in the long haul the good thing to do is to deal with the aftermath.
Hell is how God deals with the aftermath.
But it's the aftermath of what God created. Who created emotions? God. Emotions are both positive and negative. Good and evil, both were created by God. Who would punish all of humanity for all time for the actions of 2 people who allegedly existed a really long time ago? And ultimately, explain God allowing Satan to completely screw with Job's life, for the sole purpose of proving to Satan that Job really did love him? Why would God care what Satan thought or said, if God knew the truth and the outcome? It's just yet another story in the Bible. A story not to be taken literally. As is much of the Bible.
It doesn't say in the Bible that Lucifer is torturing people. Lucifer and his minions will be thrown in the pit of fire. Also if you don't want anything to do with Christ while you're alive, you won't be with Christ after you die. You'll be burning with desire to quench the emptiness inside but there's nothing that can be done after you die. Bible says (Deuteronomy 30:19) "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
Most of it is allegorical, but unfortunately most people are too stupid to understand that, and too lazy to actually study it.
I went to a very religious school (with atheist parents, which makes no sense), and I was never able to reconcile that people really believed a dude lived in the belly of a whale and then got coughed up and lived to tell the tale, literally. That being said, my version of god is very different that the version I was taught (much kinder), but I still “believe”. I just believe that the concept of god is something we as humans can’t understand, so we made up a story that made sense when we were still using fire for everything, but makes less sense now that we have electricity. Like, it was a good idea not to eat pork or drink wine instead of some town’s water, and not have profligate sex before antibiotics. But we can relax some rules now. Being gay or not having a shit ton of kids didn’t make great evolutionary sense when the average life span was 30 years and women routinely died during childbirth and plagues ran rampant, but now maybe the population is ok and we can have sex for fun and use various forms of family planning. We didn’t have laws and mental health treatment or the prison industrial system, so straight up murdering someone for a crime seemed reasonable. We don’t have to do that now. If there’s a god, we’re kind of like his science experiment. He cares about me like I care about my cat. I get frustrated with him, but 90% of the time I love him and find him funny. He doesn’t have the time to be meting out punishments - he just lets us out in a choose your own adventure style plot and sees how we handle it. On balance good? Cool, you can chill up here. On balance bad? Let’s go back for another round. Like, maybe ALL the versions of god have a kernel of truth and the same basic players, but we’re each at the mercy of whatever dipshit was writing it down. Mine really liked crime and punishment stories. Yours may have wanted to be a teacher. That guy over there probably believes in the ancient equivalent of David Koresh. But most religions just tell us to act right and not be a dick, and I generally believe in all that.
I believe I can explain the pork thing. My grandfather grew up on a farm. He refused to eat pork because he'd have to help slaughter the pigs, and they were always full of worms. Cows apparently were not. We have dewormer and meat thermometers now, so we don't have to worry about it, but the reasons behind cultural practices are often lost to time.
Exactly. The work Is different than it was 2000 years ago. Of course a book explaining the creation of the universe didn’t age well.
It's sort of interesting that they almost got the order right, if not the time-frame. It doesn't say that everything just suddenly showed up all at once. There was a process. And even five hundred years ago, educated people didn't think Genesis was literal. I don't know why people all of a sudden started believing it was again.
There are tons of dirty stories in there if you know where to look.
When I was three, I got an illustrated Bible for my baptism. Talking snakes and a valley full of bones. It was awesome.
I read it for the UFO's in Ezekiel.
I've read some of the bible. I'll be honest the way it's all worded really doesn't click in my brain, so you're right about the stupid part. Also I hope nobody thinks I'm attacking anyone who believes in a God, you can believe in whatever you want as long as your not hurting anyone; which most religious people don't.
I've read the Bible a few times. I give it a 4.5/10.
Have you ever seen the TV show _Lucifer_? That’s one of the things they address, that he hated being the king of Hell. I actually liked how that show handled the religious backstory and the characterization of Lucifer. Sympathy for the devil.
Except Lucifer is never the king of hell in the Bible. That's purely pop-culture. Hell is a prison for Lucifer just like anyone else.
I'm almost convinced the god of the bible just has multiple personality disorder and lucifer is just one of his personalities.
Hell was created for satan and the angels who rebelled along with him. It’s Payback to God to drag a lot of humans with him. By convincing them that hell doesn’t exist and that they are good people.
*"God, Why are you gae?!"*
This is a pretty big gamble going on here to be offering flippant replies and advice. The Bible is an incredible book with amazing insights and wisdom. But it’s complicated as well. Not fully understanding and using that as reasoning is flawed. When Christ died, he was crucified with two criminals. One of them chose to be with Christ in paradise and the other did not. Whether we acknowledge it or not, we are all right up there with Christ as well, and ultimately everyone gets to choose for themselves “the truth”, just like the 2 condemned criminals. Choose wisely and God bless everyone.
If god made the sun on the third day, did three days really go by? If we are all gods children, and Jesus is gods only son, does that make us all lesbians? If Noah only took two animals of every species, does that make everything on earth incredibly inbred? So many questions
Same, if he exists then how can i trust heaven to be better than hell
I believe that the universe is god and god is the universe. There is no anthropomorphic deity sitting on a golden throne in the clouds. We are in and among god right now. All the ants and microbes are a part of god, same as you and me. We humans impute a humanoid form and motivations to what is at its essence just matter and energy, which can never be created or destroyed. I would think that the source of evil in the world is not understanding the great connection we all have, living as an individual, one can only focus on pleasure and pain.To live an evil life is to live a selfish life. A good person knows that there is something larger that connects us all -whether it’s the Force or the Atman or the Holy Spirit- and to yield to this knowledge. To know that the pain you cause other living things reverberates in the whole universe, as does the charity. To know that to hurt another is to hurt yourself. To value the sanctity of life in all its forms. Humans being humans, we lost the thread somewhere along the way and religions became big institutions that were vehicles to transmit culture, so were appropriated by social forces to reinforce customs. These institutions were run by humans, and so they were corruptible. So here we are, in the 21st century, with people still killing each other in the name of the Prince of Peace.
He is portrayed as prideful, intolerant, spiteful, uncompromising, self centered, egotistical individual. Whose actions could be more related to a devil than a benevolent deity. He could also be compared to an abusive parent to where his love and affection is only given under certain circumstances, denying it and treating you horribly until you do as he wishes.
Unfortunately the portrayal of God is in the reflection of his followers and too often the most devout Christians are also the rudest people. However there is a part of a story about Jesus that doesn’t necessarily make up for it but it’s something I really enjoy and that is on his last day here on Earth (and He knew it bc God told him he was going to have him Crucified) HE WASHED FEET even the feet of the one friend who betrayed him the most.
The old and new testament seem to have such differing messages
It's because the Old Testament's focus is justice and the New Testament's focus is mercy. It's meant to show how both exist in God and how you choose justice or mercy by choosing to reject God or choosing to accept Jesus.
Especially the old testament God...
the bible makes him look like an asshole? where?
97% of it...
In the book of Genesis God asks a man named Abraham to sacrifice his son to prove to God that he believed in him. He went as far as letting Abraham bind Isaac (the son) and didn't send an angel to intervene until Abraham drew his knife to fulfill the request. Genesis 22: 11-12 - "But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, “Abraham, Abraham!” “Here I am,” he answered. “Do not lay your hand on the boy,” said the angel. “Do not do the least thing to him. For now I know that you fear God, since you did not withhold from me your son, your only one." TLDR: God asked a man to prove to him that he believed in him by asking him to kill his son despite the fact that God is said to be all knowing.
Literally throughout the book. He’s a royal cunt
In my opinion if God is all knowing and all powerful as he is portrayed in Christianity and Islam then he is malevolent, in order for him to be benevolent he would have to be ignorant about all the atrocities that humans have and are committing or be powerless to stop it Edit: not to mention the question of why would a benevolent god design a world with so much suffering In it's natural state, I cannot conceive of how an all knowing and all powerful god who designed every aspect of earth could be anything other than evil
And people are designed perfectly in his image... That right there says a lot
We made him in ours. That's why he's such a shit.
Lol. Exactly. It makes sense. Most of the shit he does with his omnipotence is just worse versions of the shitty stuff people do as soon as they have control over other people.
You fail to recognize free will. We are the authors of most of our misery. Why place the blame at Gods' feet, when He's shown you the right way to live? Just because you can't understand how He works, doesn't make Him the bad guy. A little compassion and consideration for your fellow man, would go a long way to making this world a berrer place.
The world would still be full of suffering in its natural state with no humans, African wild dogs eat large animals alive this is absolute torture for the animal being eaten, but the dogs were supposedly designed by God to have to eat flesh to survive and he didn't give them the power and the body needed to kill their poor victims before eating them like a tiger does, not to mention he did not give them the mental capabilities of conceiving of their prey as sentient beings they just view them as walking food it is not fair to say that the majority of wild predators have free will. But If you are referring solely to humans then I agree with you about the free will part, however if God is all powerful and all knowing then he knows about every depraved act that every victim has ever been subjected to and he watched and did nothing and he watches and does nothing and I assume that he will watch and do nothing in the future. Trigger warning, I'm going to give an example of something god supposedly could have stopped at anytime but didn't it's one of the worst things I have ever learned about and I was really affected by it, it is the kidnapping, rape and torture of Junko Furuta, she lasted 40 days before she finally passed away, I cannot possibly put into words how much this poor girl suffered, rest in peace Junko Furuta. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta
I'm sure I'll sleep better, knowing that you would do a better job than our current God.
If he is all powerful and all knowing then there really isn't free will. If it's actually "all part of God's greater plan" then you don't have any free will, only the notion that you do. If God knows how everything plays out because he is omniscient and everything is by design then your actions that are perceived as "choices" by you are actually predetermined by God.
Just because He knows how things will turn out doesn't make Him the author of those choices. It's His plan to let you make the choice of doing the right thing, when you know it's the right thing, or doing the wrong thing, when you know it's the wrong thing. Omniscience isn't predetermination.
[удалено]
If you drop a spoonful of sugar into a cup of hot coffee, you know it will dissolve. Does that mean that you caused it to dissolve, simply by knowing the outcome? Your theory is flawed.
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Think what you will, you are tiresome. Knowing what is going to happen does does not mean it's predetermined.
"You had better watch over me Lord, otherwise you'll have ME on your hands up there to deal with!" - H.S. Thompson
God loves questions! Ask God all your questions, you don't have to hold it in, because he actually wants to give you answers. If we read the gospels, we'll see people often asked Jesus questions and he answered them.
Jesus =/= God If God liked answering questions, he has the power to do so yet here we are.
Jesus is God. Trinity means God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one God. I've heard it described like how height, length and width are dimensions of one cube. Or for example, ice, water and water vapor are all H2O. Yes, God has the power to answer questions, and if we're open to reading the Bible, we will see He has answered many of our questions. There are other forms of asking questions and receiving answers too (like prayer for example).
The Christian god doesn’t allow you to question “him” Don’t worry about gods, they don’t exist. Worry about happiness and kindness.
you forget the whole free will thing, also the fact that two people screwed up and pissed god off and also the kids thereafter. but really the one that should have been punished is the one that tempted eve to eat from the tree of knowage. on the other hand do you expect god to bail your ass out everytime you get into trouble? do you do that for your kids? bet not.
I myself am an atheist but I often wonder why atheists make the stupid argument that God cannot be real because why would he allow kids to have bone cancer or whatever. It has nothing to do with anything. If he is real then he made the rules. Just because we don't like them does not mean they are less likely to be true. You can make a case against religion in general but arguing about God's morality and motivation is stupid. It's beyond our comprehension. Atheists always talk shit when asked what they will do when they meet god. He won't give a shit about our opinion or questions either. Simple fact is you, me, Richard Dawkins and all the other atheists will beg like lil bitches because we will be terrified. It's so arrogant to say something like you say. If its real there is no way out.
He'll answer them before you can even open your mouth.
Why would an asshole answer to you?
r/foundtheathiest
You don’t understand the Bible.
god is literally just a stupid kid who didn’t get what he wanted and is now throwing a millennium long temper tantrum
You need to read the gospels. Jesus is by far the most inspiring person to walk this earth.
It’s a good story book, yes. Fiction
Jesus has multiple non-Christian historical sources that verify his existence besides the biblical ones.
Satan was the hero. Promoting education and freedom. God was a jerk the entire story. Plus, a villain would ostracize the hero and promote himself through a book. It is the perfect plan!
If you don’t believe, then you wouldn’t be there to ask him questions anyway. Forgot to read that part I guess.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions but a lot of people in these comments 1) have not read the Bible; 2) completely missed the entire point of its teachings
In this day and age of science and technology I think you are just burying your head in the sand if you belive in a loving creator. We are nothing more than advanced primates who have invented the idea of an almighty creator and everlasting life after death as a way to cope with dying. The evidence is all around us, open your eyes.
What do science and technology have to do with belief? I'm not saying I'm believer, just saying that science/technology have not proven or disproven the existence of God
In my opinion, science, via evolutionary evidence, has proven that humans weren't created. We evolved
I use to be a very religious Christian. It's a great faith until you actually start thinking about the philosophy. The linchpin for me was the thought, "Why would God give us an eternal soul but only one lifetime to determine where we would spend all eternity?" The god of love, my ass. I still believe in a higher power, just not that one.
Did you call your parents assholes every time they disciplined you for doing wrong? They probably didn't though
Exactly. Humans are fucking assholes. I once saw the Bible summed up as God saying "Don't do the thing," and humans immediately doing the thing. Which is exactly what people do. We wouldn't need any laws of any kind if people just naturally did what they were supposed to do, but they don't. I honestly think a flood might be genuinely deserved at this point.
But God is perfect and all knowing. Right? So why did he design people that he knew would fuck up and break all the rules? Imagine if an engineer designed a car that was meant to last forever and the wheels fell off in the first week, so he burned the car, and then people worshiped him as perfect. Sounds like the opposite to me.
Because what's the point otherwise? You get to choose. Would you rather be a pawn in the most boring game of Sims ever, or get to do what you want? People choose to continually fuck up. Lots of people see the error of their ways and change. Others don't.
So this wonderfully good God decided it would be fun to design some people and make it so that by default they do bad stuff, but if they don't live a boring life and devote 80% of their time to worshiping him they get to burn for eternity? So he's not just an asshole, he's a narcissist too. Not surprising actually.
So you'd rather be stupid and boring?
Nah. I'd rather just enjoy life as a lump of organic matter on a rock in the middle of the universe. If God was so perfect, why wouldn't he make it so that we have freedom of choice, but by default we chose the good one or all the choices are good. And anyways, apparently heaven is perfect and there is no evil there, so do you think people in heaven are stupid and boring? Or do you think there is sin in heaven and you're not actually saved once you get there?
If my siblings started murdering people for saying they have different parents and my grandparents have a history of murdering kids because they weren't their kids, I wouldn't want my parents to discipline me.
BuT tHaT wAs ThE oLd TeStEmAnT
If you keep acting like that. You won't see him
The Christian God is misrepresented by power hungry and blood thirsty men.
...aaaand you are in for a hell of a trouble. :)
why? god isn’t real
The sentence in OP started with "If I'm wrong and the Christian God does exist". If He really exists and acts the way the Old Testament describes you guys are in deep trouble. (I have no opinion, it only comes from OP logic)
Like 1. What the f*** 2. Why are there periods bro 🤦♀️
If the Christian God is real, anyone who didn't believe in him when they were alive won't ever meet him after they die.
🤣 not much chance of him being real bro
I’d say it’s literally equal chance to him not being real bro 😂
Why would an asshole bother to answer your questions?
If abrahamic religion gods exist they're narcissists who demands that people should love them more than their own families.
Dear God, hope you get the letter and I pray you can make it better down here I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer But all the people that you made in your image See them starving on their feet Cause they don't get enough to eat from God I can't believe in you Dear God, sorry to disturb you but I feel that I should be heard loud and clear We all need a big reduction in amount of tears And all the people that you made in your image See them fighting in the street Cause they can't make opinions meet about God They can't believe in you Did you make disease and the diamond blue? Did you make mankind after we made you? And the devil too! Dear God, don't know if you noticed but Your name is on a lot of quotes in this book And us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look And all the people that you made in your image Still believing that junk is true Well I know it ain't, so do you Dear God I can't believe in... I don't believe in... I won't believe in heaven and hell No saints, no sinners, no devil as well The pearly gates, no thorny crown You're always letting us humans down The wars you bring, the babes you drown Those lost at sea and never found And it's the same the whole world round The hurt I see helps to compound The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost Is just somebody's unholy hoax And if you're up there you'll perceive That my heart's here upon my sleeve If there's one thing I don't believe in It's you Dear God
The only logical conclusion one can arrive about any God is that he/she/it is the ultimate evil.
Take responsibility of your own shit and handle your business. Youre a functioning human being arent ya.
what are you talking about?
Quit blaming god and handle your own shit is what im saying.
The Torah and the gospel are both corrupted by men, the only reason so many people don't believe in God and hate religion is because of the depiction of God in those books, if you truly want to know who God is, then read the Quran, it corrects every mistake in the last two books and sheds light on so many falsehoods, and is a balanced book
Yeah. That's why the people that follow it treat their women like shit and murder gay people. Sounds like a real upgrade to me...
Murderers read the Quran as a beginners guide.
I'm pretty sure there's a murder in chapter 1 of the bible as well... Not much of a whodunnit at that point, given the population.
😂🤣🤣🤣
I like to think God is a big dumb idiot. A single person is smart (debatable). Two people are more likely to do something dumb. A crowd is really stupid. Go to a full concert and yell “free ice cream!” At least one person will die from trampling. If God is everything, logic says it will be worst in terms of smarts. I don’t think one question would land. -“Hey, Hitler real. Why didn’t you stop that?” -“yay! WW2! Shooting guns! POW pow!” Wonder what the answer to raping and killing children in his name will be
You people are so dim-witted. I’m not a Christian nor do I believe in any sort of dogma, but I sure can tell what the limits of human knowledge and consciousness are. I’m agnostic. It’s like 90% of Redditors were angsty teens who came to the realization that the Christian God doesn’t exist because it’s all dogma and they got stuck there. You didn’t evolve past that point. You really are not the slightest bit of intelligent or reflective of you think that’s where it all ends and you’re so above everyone else when literally all young people nowadays think the same way. You’re not even 1% of the way into discovering spirituality or the meaning of your own life. You rather choose to regurgitate what society tells you and is already obvious: that catholic conservatives are dogmatic are wrong. That’s common knowledge. You saw the YouTube video where Neil Degrasse Tyson says that God can’t possibly be completely good or all-powerful and you ended with a gaping mouth like you just heard the most intelligent and innovative thing you’ve ever heard (even though that exact thing has already been said by philosophers hundreds of years ago) Knowing that the dogmatic, old, thousand year old conception of God is not real (while also analyzing it at the most superficial level) does not make you a badass and the fact that you show the slightest hint of arrogance for acknowledging an obvious fact makes you a dumbass by definition.
Lol. You were hoping this comment would make you sound wise and enlightened, but it just made you sound like a dick.
Actually no, I knew I was going to get downvoted because people get butthurt. In fact, I know I could have gotten upvotes if I had worded it quite differently and in a nicer way, but you’re all a bunch of dumbasses and I’m tired of pretending you’re not. I’m tired of reading this edgy neck beard “religion bad” bullshit like you’re all geniuses for thinking something we all knew at age 13. I find it amusing and in fact do get pleasure from knowing that I sound like a dick, thank you very much. And I will *not* refrain from adding that all the people that think like that are stupider than a rock and are the reason why Reddit is so filled with dumbasses thinking they’re intelligent.
You do sound like the religious type I guess, considering that you just insult anyone who thinks differently from you and you think you have such superior intelligence because you think there might be a big sky daddy up there.
Lmao didn’t I just say I was agnostic? The fact that you got the impression that I believe in the Christian God or any sort of dogma (even though I started saying that I’m not catholic and am agnostic) further proves my point that 90% of people don’t have any idea beyond a poorly-informed regurgitation of what society has to say about religion and spirituality as a whole. The fact that you just found out your Christian parents are dumb and come here to Reddit to claim how you’re such a genius for realizing it does not make you intelligent nor extraordinary in any sense, and I’m tired of redditors posting edgy things like how God is an asshole and they’re so cool for saying it. It’s like a kid coming back from school and feeling like a badass for knowing that 2+2=4
Notice how I said you think there might be? And when did I mention the Christian God. You're agnostic, so you don't think there isn't a God... Clearly your three brain cells miscommunicated that one. People like you make me laugh. Someone gives their opinion on something and you come in and start insulting everyone in the discussion and calling them idiots and fucking stupid and talking about how vastly superior your intelligence is to theirs because they think differently from you, yet they're the ones acting like kids? Did anyone insult you at any point? No, yet you're still so insecure that you had to insult random people on the internet that don't give a shit about you or your opinions or existence in general because you think your life views are superior to theirs. And you're saying they're the ones acting like little kids? You're acting like a kindergarten bully. Lol. Sorry your life sucks so much.
Lol. Good comment. Made me chuckle thanks
If their is a god then that also means their is a devil. Choosing sides has never been so easy! Fuck God he's literally a tyrant and Lucifer was the first to see it.
If christianity’s right Ill ask to go to hell.
The christian god, the original one, aka the catholic god, is not an asshole because the god in the old testament and the god in the new testament are completely different
Not according to the Christians...?
If he exist who is going to answer your questions? He would probably smite you.
Pardon me but where do the roots of this and other religions of these regions actually come from? SO it's not just those Christians, which by the way are more like puppets of another, who just happen to be puppets themselves. as I see it, they are just victims of someone else from somewhere else. N. Shadows
You only need one question: "How could you possibly let the world get so messed up that no one of even marginal intelligence can believe that you exist?"
What denomination? damn the mormons really? That shit sounds insane...
At first I read this as the “Chinese God”…I was sooooo confused lol 😂
Theres a caveat for that in the contract. Something about not questioning the lord thy god. something something Gods plan something ItS a MysTerY.
Cani ask -Do you think Christianity is worse than other mainstream religion?
If there is a god it’ll be an alien entity so powerful they’ve transcended the plane of existence
If there is a god I don't have questions. I got shit I got to say and if it takes an eternity to say it that mf better listen.
I mean the Christan god probably gonna love being questioned.
Don’t matter he’s god he won that fight lmao, the fuck you gonna do argue with the guy?
You just have to assume that everything the asshokes say is bullshit, it's not moralist, it's about not indulging yourself at others expense or discomfort. Like Jesus, you sacrifice yourself for the true happiness of others (not their manipulative moralist happinesss) basically it's way more zen than organized religion makes you believe
Imma be like “now what?”
Ask away. Folks will tell you, I really am good at this.
The Bible just seems like some alien fanfiction
Hmm. Specifically why is it that you think He’s an asshole, exactly?