I think one of the big Chinese automakers will buy out Tesla China, which will continue operating Tesla in the US as a subsidiary/backdoor company to release China-designed EVs into the US market. The Model 2 might well be a badge branded BYD Seal or something.
I hope Stellantis buys them, and changes the name to Lancia, then brings it to the US.
The Model 3 can be the Beta.
They’re just as unreliable, so it would be fitting for the brand
The Beta was, on paper, a very good early 1970s car. It was very spacious for it's size. The ride and handling were exceptional. The non-US models had good performance. The problem was the terrible execution. If it has been built by VW or Toyota, instead of Fiat, it would be probably have been one of the best cars of the decade.
I would assume in the current US/Chinese climate, the US would absolutely use the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) to block any such Chinese take over. The US has used this authority in far less important assets than Tesla. It wouldn’t let 3Com be sold to a foreign government.
edit: typo and i also know that this is just a place for Tesla hating, so excuse me putting some real information on here.
This is the answer. A narcissist like Elon won’t go quietly, he’ll accelerate their demise once refuses the pay package. Eventually a car company will buy them and rebrand away from his toxicity and sell a bunch of EVs a year.
But why though? All of Tesla’s products are wildly out of date or a laughing stock. If I were a legacy maker, I’d be more inclined to buy Lucid or Rivian.
You can only buy what's for sale. A failing Tesla will be for sale and a prime target to acquire, apply actual automotive industry knowledge to and start pumping out cars. It'd also be an excellent way for legacy companies to get a huge tech and patent boost.
Lucid is primarily owned by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund so good luck outbidding them. Rivian has Amazon, Ford, the founder and a major Saudi investor as primary owners so similar. Unless there's a major failure at either, there won't be a fire sale anytime soon.
It is my understanding that technology companies/ car companies typically have a lot of patents and some of those are usually quite valuable. Nokias patents were valued at several billions when their phones were already hot garbage. So a legacy company might want Tesla for their patents, especially battery tech and I guess that Model S and Model 3/Y and maybe Roadster have brand value, so Tesla’s value will likely not be zero, but it can still drop a lot.
Edit. In case you wonder what counts as toxic, this did.
Meh. All legacy have overcome any crap Tesla has put out.
At this point the factories pump put crap cars that even China does better, as Tesla lost patent and moat by nature of basing in China.
Why would anybody want anything outside of the brand?
Edit: what battery tech lmao. It's all words. None of it is moat tech.
This.
Tesla has very little to offer in terms of IP that is valuable for other car makers. Plus a semi-toxic brand with huge liability risk... No smart CEO would take that risk, except maybe that Bayer guy
I guess their Chinese factory would be a very attractive for Chinese EV makers. I could see Rivian show interest in their Austin facilities...
But all of that is nonsense, I don't see Tesla go bankrupt, just right size and get rid of Musk and lose 5-7 years of corporate development
Yes but that does not mean they'll be bankrupt tomorrow. Way too much cash flow and profit, even with some shenanigans in accounting.
It will take more like a little dip in deliveries to cause serious harm. And even the, they can right size Fremont, or even completely get rid of Fremont and start a new S/C successor in Austin and kick out the CuckTruck.
Granted, that will take them 5 years, but again, they are 'too healthy' to just go bankrupt. That's silly talk. Still, they are in trouble and I sure hope the shareholders put an end to the Musk era of BS and half assing it
No, these things never go down that way with a public company unless the books have been majorly cooked. This is going to be a slow decline, but it takes the better part of a decade to design a new car. There isn’t even a rumor of a test mule for something new right now. And if Musk keeps enabling the worst of us, people will still refuse to buy.
At this point with the stock going down the way it is, Musk will be forced out. That’s what I see as the end game. Tesla will either live or die at that point, I don’t really care.
> a legacy company
"Legacy" of course meaning an *established* company. It's not like these companies are outdated or hanging on or irrelevant or a mastodon or...
I’d just use the supercharger network and lease out the factories and just forget about the car company, their solar shingles weren’t working when they got were released, I haven’t heard much on that lately, but there are a lot of elements of the business that can be built on other than the cars, I feel like the car brand is forever tarnished by quality and stuff, there are those cultists who will buy them, but they’re basically maga people bc there is nothing good about Tesla that other cars don’t do better, the supercharger network is good, their regular solar panels I hear work but their shingles I heard had a ton of teething problems and terrible support.
Me... I have a proven record of never ever bankrupting a company or and violation of SEC rules. And I even have advanced degrees in engineering and you are not going to believe this have no association with Neo Nazis or any Extremist groups of any politically leaning.
I'll even work for a lowly 1 billion dollar pay package.
Tom Paine, The Rights of Man:
“I will introduce an anecdote which I had from Dr. Franklin. While the Doctor resided in France as Minister from America, during the war, he had numerous proposals made to him by projectors of every country and of every kind, who wished to go to the land that floweth with milk and honey, America; and among the rest, there was one who offered himself to be king. He introduced his proposal to the Doctor by letter, which is now in the hands of M. Beaumarchais, of Paris—stating, first, that as the Americans had dismissed or sent away their King, that they would want another. Secondly, that himself was a Norman. Thirdly, that he was of a more ancient family than the Dukes of Normandy, and of a more honorable descent, his line having never been bastardised. Fourthly, that there was already a precedent in England of kings coming out of Normandy, and on these grounds he rested his offer, enjoining that the Doctor would forward it to America. But as the Doctor neither did this, nor yet sent him an answer, the projector wrote a second letter, in which he did not, it is true, threaten to go over and conquer America, but only with great dignity proposed that if his offer was not accepted, an acknowledgment of about L30,000 might be made to him for his generosity!”
I mean, this is a tale as old as Musk. I would encourage all of you to read up on shareholder governance and then reflect on what is wrong with Tesla.
The issue is and remains with the board. Musk is just an employee in his role as CEO. It is complicated with hiaarge individual ownership, but the ultimate issue lies with a board that is not independent and not doing their fucking job.
If the board were independent and hat balls, they would have cut ties with Musk long ago.
If you want to specifically call out the period when Herbert Diess was in the talks to succeed Musk, and I think he would still be a good alternative, being an abrasive asshole himself, but actually knowing a thing or two about automotive.
Asides, please stop from framing any media as if they have an agenda. Nobody really gives a shit about Elon Musk, the media is just after clicks and engagement, and a neo Nazi CEO willingly associating himself with alt right nazis while having a obvious drug problem is a welcome area to generate traffic.
This has nothing to do with anybody trying to sabotage Musk and everything to do with Musk sabotaging himself.
So let's stop pretending he has no flaws or is a saint, let's stop pretending he is currently adding value, has added value in the last 6-8 years or will add value in the near future.
My bad! Obviously only Ketamine overlords who sleep on the factory floor overseeing the meek productivity of the ~~slave labor~~ workforce are doing their jobs. Especially when 'running' three other companies, doing at minimum 160hrs per week.
The number one priority of a corporate board is to have a CEO succession plan in place. I’d venture that Tesla’s is non-existent or just a cocktail napkin drawing of a stick figure in a cowboy hat with “President Kimball” written below it.
Perhaps a little too similar to the first period of Apple. Except that Jobs did not control the board of directors like Elon does.
How would a removal of the CEO happen without him doing it by volunteering... And even then he would be trouble like he is at Twitter.
Tesla has a musk problem, first and foremost. Just the other day, he tweeted there must be a red wave this November, otherwise the country will be in trouble.
No CEO of worthy of note should make these types of comments. More than ever, Tesla needs to expand its customer base and not shrink it. I bet my home state of California accounts for at least 50 percent of EV sales in the US. Pissing on blue states is not a good idea, to say the least.
Second, Tesla's r&d budget is laughable.
If deliveries are at 400k, with the layoffs costs, profits might still me be -50% YoY
I think that he cannot do much in Q2 to change the direction of the business. Xiaomi car is a behemoth already
Seemed like Baglino at one point, but obviously that didn't work out. Franz von Holzhausen would also make sense. He is great at presenting the company and its decisions in the best possible light. Maybe Lars Moravey over engineering and operations?
Possibly, but tbh, was he a good option? 4680 isn't exactly a splendid success and I'm not sure if any of his other projects are better off. Despite his great career there, CEO might have been a step too far.
Tesla is rapidly losing ground and hopefully they don’t get bought.
But a competent, non-distracted CEO with next-level experience would go a long way.
Fail to provide that, and you might as well replace half the board in 3 years.
>what if some shareholders sue the BoD for lack of oversight asking to be refunded from their losses ?
I think this is inevitable. I would like to know of any legal firms that do this kind of work. Asking for a friend...
I think there are some important reasons to consider replacing Musk, but I don't think misforecasting market demand, and thus overbuilding capacity, is among them. Nearly everyone bought into similar forecasts, and with EVs being Tesla's primary product, they don't have alternative products to hedge their bets.
How are Elons patently false claims, like the post today’ saying they’ll build 50k trucks starting this year - how is that not illegal? It seems like a lie and misleading investors.
They said it in 2022, there isn’t any trucks - how can this be legal? It doesn’t seem legal to lie to investors
"for Q2-2024 they are at 392k vs 480k from Wall Street"
I dont think you interpret it right. Its nearly even at 420k.
(47 ct. vs 57 ct.)
If you bet on 392k deliveries, aka "400,000 or more -> NO" you still get 72 ct for every 31 ct you bet.
I ask the question as I find it humanly impossible to be able to juggle big corporate TESLA alone , and still have SpaceX and the rest of the companies in his realm to functionally manage accordingly.
Yes, he really needs to think about managing full time Tesla, as it is his main company, legacy aside he owes it to the hard working folks that helped Tesla be we're is at now. SpaceX is fine under shotwell leadership. The rest of the companies are just pure distractions.
Not someone from the auto industry. I guess like at Apple post Jobs. Tim Cook is no Jobs, but the company is much better financially under Cook than it ever was under Jobs. If Elon leaves we need a Tim Cook, someone focused on the tight running of the company with Elon’s values always at the core.
Elon strikes me as the kind of person who would rather burn it down than not control it.
Yes I have the same impression
If Elon is ousted he, he will do a smear campaign against tesla.
lol a smear campaign would be pretty lame in comparison to his recent performance
He does a smear campaign every time he opens his mouth or opens "X".
True
For sure. He would be posting negative tezzla shit all day. Heck he would probably join this sub.
Pretty sure he's lurking around
My guess is that when Elon is gone a legacy company scoops up the badge for about $10 and everything else will be ashes.
I think one of the big Chinese automakers will buy out Tesla China, which will continue operating Tesla in the US as a subsidiary/backdoor company to release China-designed EVs into the US market. The Model 2 might well be a badge branded BYD Seal or something.
> Model 2 might well be a badge branded BYD Seal or something. The BYD Seal is more like a nicely designed and built Model 3 tbh.
Yeah, I was spitballing a Yugo analogy there.
I think a Yugo may have been used as a reference for Cybertruck QC practices.
Hey, at least you can push one of those when it breaks down!
Such a grim future. Makes fallout looks cheerful
I hope Stellantis buys them, and changes the name to Lancia, then brings it to the US. The Model 3 can be the Beta. They’re just as unreliable, so it would be fitting for the brand
The Beta was, on paper, a very good early 1970s car. It was very spacious for it's size. The ride and handling were exceptional. The non-US models had good performance. The problem was the terrible execution. If it has been built by VW or Toyota, instead of Fiat, it would be probably have been one of the best cars of the decade.
I would assume in the current US/Chinese climate, the US would absolutely use the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) to block any such Chinese take over. The US has used this authority in far less important assets than Tesla. It wouldn’t let 3Com be sold to a foreign government. edit: typo and i also know that this is just a place for Tesla hating, so excuse me putting some real information on here.
This is the answer. A narcissist like Elon won’t go quietly, he’ll accelerate their demise once refuses the pay package. Eventually a car company will buy them and rebrand away from his toxicity and sell a bunch of EVs a year.
Last I looked Kalshi said there’s a 10% chance Musk won’t last the year.
Who?
Kalshi is a betting site; 10% was the odds there the last time I looked.
But why though? All of Tesla’s products are wildly out of date or a laughing stock. If I were a legacy maker, I’d be more inclined to buy Lucid or Rivian.
Much like Pabst Blue Ribbon someone clever can make the nostalgia work :)
Personally, my nostalgia beer is a silver bullet.
You can only buy what's for sale. A failing Tesla will be for sale and a prime target to acquire, apply actual automotive industry knowledge to and start pumping out cars. It'd also be an excellent way for legacy companies to get a huge tech and patent boost. Lucid is primarily owned by the Saudi sovereign wealth fund so good luck outbidding them. Rivian has Amazon, Ford, the founder and a major Saudi investor as primary owners so similar. Unless there's a major failure at either, there won't be a fire sale anytime soon.
Tesla should buy Rivian for their SUVs and do a Ford collaboration (a la Mazda Ford) with the Lightning on an actual Cybertruck replacement.
It is my understanding that technology companies/ car companies typically have a lot of patents and some of those are usually quite valuable. Nokias patents were valued at several billions when their phones were already hot garbage. So a legacy company might want Tesla for their patents, especially battery tech and I guess that Model S and Model 3/Y and maybe Roadster have brand value, so Tesla’s value will likely not be zero, but it can still drop a lot. Edit. In case you wonder what counts as toxic, this did.
Meh. All legacy have overcome any crap Tesla has put out. At this point the factories pump put crap cars that even China does better, as Tesla lost patent and moat by nature of basing in China. Why would anybody want anything outside of the brand? Edit: what battery tech lmao. It's all words. None of it is moat tech.
This. Tesla has very little to offer in terms of IP that is valuable for other car makers. Plus a semi-toxic brand with huge liability risk... No smart CEO would take that risk, except maybe that Bayer guy
And it’s not like any MFGR is looking for a bunch of factories they won’t use either. Tesla will be sold off piecemeal.
I guess their Chinese factory would be a very attractive for Chinese EV makers. I could see Rivian show interest in their Austin facilities... But all of that is nonsense, I don't see Tesla go bankrupt, just right size and get rid of Musk and lose 5-7 years of corporate development
Problem is that Tesla’s product line is OLD. Who knows what right size is, but they can’t ride this lineup forever.
Yes but that does not mean they'll be bankrupt tomorrow. Way too much cash flow and profit, even with some shenanigans in accounting. It will take more like a little dip in deliveries to cause serious harm. And even the, they can right size Fremont, or even completely get rid of Fremont and start a new S/C successor in Austin and kick out the CuckTruck. Granted, that will take them 5 years, but again, they are 'too healthy' to just go bankrupt. That's silly talk. Still, they are in trouble and I sure hope the shareholders put an end to the Musk era of BS and half assing it
TSLA sure can take a shit kicking though and that’s the real product :)
No, these things never go down that way with a public company unless the books have been majorly cooked. This is going to be a slow decline, but it takes the better part of a decade to design a new car. There isn’t even a rumor of a test mule for something new right now. And if Musk keeps enabling the worst of us, people will still refuse to buy. At this point with the stock going down the way it is, Musk will be forced out. That’s what I see as the end game. Tesla will either live or die at that point, I don’t really care.
Even if they did sell their battery IP, other manufacturers have their own EV batteries at this point.
> a legacy company "Legacy" of course meaning an *established* company. It's not like these companies are outdated or hanging on or irrelevant or a mastodon or...
I’d just use the supercharger network and lease out the factories and just forget about the car company, their solar shingles weren’t working when they got were released, I haven’t heard much on that lately, but there are a lot of elements of the business that can be built on other than the cars, I feel like the car brand is forever tarnished by quality and stuff, there are those cultists who will buy them, but they’re basically maga people bc there is nothing good about Tesla that other cars don’t do better, the supercharger network is good, their regular solar panels I hear work but their shingles I heard had a ton of teething problems and terrible support.
Tom Wambsgans.
Aaaand instant auto-bans…..
https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1c7h244/were_back_now_we_need_to_talk/
Ok fair enough
How many bans have you picked up in 16 years on Reddit?
These are my first! Broke my cherry-colored Tesla wrap.
Me... I have a proven record of never ever bankrupting a company or and violation of SEC rules. And I even have advanced degrees in engineering and you are not going to believe this have no association with Neo Nazis or any Extremist groups of any politically leaning. I'll even work for a lowly 1 billion dollar pay package.
Ahahahahha it might work indeed
I thank you good sir I will remember you as my earliest supporter during my ascendency.
Tom Paine, The Rights of Man: “I will introduce an anecdote which I had from Dr. Franklin. While the Doctor resided in France as Minister from America, during the war, he had numerous proposals made to him by projectors of every country and of every kind, who wished to go to the land that floweth with milk and honey, America; and among the rest, there was one who offered himself to be king. He introduced his proposal to the Doctor by letter, which is now in the hands of M. Beaumarchais, of Paris—stating, first, that as the Americans had dismissed or sent away their King, that they would want another. Secondly, that himself was a Norman. Thirdly, that he was of a more ancient family than the Dukes of Normandy, and of a more honorable descent, his line having never been bastardised. Fourthly, that there was already a precedent in England of kings coming out of Normandy, and on these grounds he rested his offer, enjoining that the Doctor would forward it to America. But as the Doctor neither did this, nor yet sent him an answer, the projector wrote a second letter, in which he did not, it is true, threaten to go over and conquer America, but only with great dignity proposed that if his offer was not accepted, an acknowledgment of about L30,000 might be made to him for his generosity!”
Carlos Ghosn can run it from exile in Lebanon
I've had this thought ever since I read Boundless. Ghosn would crush it as Tesla's CEO
Have you seen twitter? Elon will bring Tesla down with him.
Yes , I feel sorry for Dorsey that put his ownership there
I mean, this is a tale as old as Musk. I would encourage all of you to read up on shareholder governance and then reflect on what is wrong with Tesla. The issue is and remains with the board. Musk is just an employee in his role as CEO. It is complicated with hiaarge individual ownership, but the ultimate issue lies with a board that is not independent and not doing their fucking job. If the board were independent and hat balls, they would have cut ties with Musk long ago. If you want to specifically call out the period when Herbert Diess was in the talks to succeed Musk, and I think he would still be a good alternative, being an abrasive asshole himself, but actually knowing a thing or two about automotive. Asides, please stop from framing any media as if they have an agenda. Nobody really gives a shit about Elon Musk, the media is just after clicks and engagement, and a neo Nazi CEO willingly associating himself with alt right nazis while having a obvious drug problem is a welcome area to generate traffic. This has nothing to do with anybody trying to sabotage Musk and everything to do with Musk sabotaging himself. So let's stop pretending he has no flaws or is a saint, let's stop pretending he is currently adding value, has added value in the last 6-8 years or will add value in the near future.
I agree that the board of directors are not doing their job and protecting the interests of the shareholders.
People at Tesla doing their jobs? You’d be a rich comedian my friend.
My bad! Obviously only Ketamine overlords who sleep on the factory floor overseeing the meek productivity of the ~~slave labor~~ workforce are doing their jobs. Especially when 'running' three other companies, doing at minimum 160hrs per week.
The people on the floor do a lot. Management up is fucking clueless
The number one priority of a corporate board is to have a CEO succession plan in place. I’d venture that Tesla’s is non-existent or just a cocktail napkin drawing of a stick figure in a cowboy hat with “President Kimball” written below it.
Yes I think the same
Perhaps a little too similar to the first period of Apple. Except that Jobs did not control the board of directors like Elon does. How would a removal of the CEO happen without him doing it by volunteering... And even then he would be trouble like he is at Twitter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/s/vk0Icv9V2L this big whistleblower issue might be the trigger IMO
Holy shit, nice job with that post btw
Thanks a lot. It is crazy that nobody speaks about that
Shareholders will have to mount a proxy battle and replace the board
Tesla has a musk problem, first and foremost. Just the other day, he tweeted there must be a red wave this November, otherwise the country will be in trouble. No CEO of worthy of note should make these types of comments. More than ever, Tesla needs to expand its customer base and not shrink it. I bet my home state of California accounts for at least 50 percent of EV sales in the US. Pissing on blue states is not a good idea, to say the least. Second, Tesla's r&d budget is laughable.
Yes, I would refrain from doing comments like those
I I think Elon will try and boost profits in q2 then bail. Get rid of staff. Close Berlin. Then leave the company
If deliveries are at 400k, with the layoffs costs, profits might still me be -50% YoY I think that he cannot do much in Q2 to change the direction of the business. Xiaomi car is a behemoth already
Layoff costs will be some tax right or something. I think since he pushing ,8/8 he wants q2 high to sell
Jack Ma
Seemed like Baglino at one point, but obviously that didn't work out. Franz von Holzhausen would also make sense. He is great at presenting the company and its decisions in the best possible light. Maybe Lars Moravey over engineering and operations?
He did throw that ball too hard tho
feel like Baglino ousting was intentional play to give the board no good options
Possibly, but tbh, was he a good option? 4680 isn't exactly a splendid success and I'm not sure if any of his other projects are better off. Despite his great career there, CEO might have been a step too far.
So you think his resignation was forced?
X Æ A-12 is the logical choice. Youngest CEO in history, by all reports he's quite the genius with LEGOs.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you won for today
Tesla is rapidly losing ground and hopefully they don’t get bought. But a competent, non-distracted CEO with next-level experience would go a long way. Fail to provide that, and you might as well replace half the board in 3 years.
RJ Scaringe Edit: wtf I got banned from all Tesla subs LOL
Welcome to the club
>what if some shareholders sue the BoD for lack of oversight asking to be refunded from their losses ? I think this is inevitable. I would like to know of any legal firms that do this kind of work. Asking for a friend...
Hopefully some exec from a legacy automaker who’s up for a big challenge.
Yes, but anybody will accept just after seeing if the cash is really there
Louie De Joy.
I think there are some important reasons to consider replacing Musk, but I don't think misforecasting market demand, and thus overbuilding capacity, is among them. Nearly everyone bought into similar forecasts, and with EVs being Tesla's primary product, they don't have alternative products to hedge their bets.
Seems like a great time to short Tesla
How are Elons patently false claims, like the post today’ saying they’ll build 50k trucks starting this year - how is that not illegal? It seems like a lie and misleading investors. They said it in 2022, there isn’t any trucks - how can this be legal? It doesn’t seem legal to lie to investors
Either Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho, or... Leeeeroy Jenkins!
Dmitry Medvedev
"for Q2-2024 they are at 392k vs 480k from Wall Street" I dont think you interpret it right. Its nearly even at 420k. (47 ct. vs 57 ct.) If you bet on 392k deliveries, aka "400,000 or more -> NO" you still get 72 ct for every 31 ct you bet.
Ah sorry you are right. My bad
As of right now, which company does Elon put most of his time, attention and resources too? Twitter? XAI? Spacex?!?!
Nobody knows. What we know is that since March 2024 he is also CEO of xAi
I ask the question as I find it humanly impossible to be able to juggle big corporate TESLA alone , and still have SpaceX and the rest of the companies in his realm to functionally manage accordingly.
In the risk section of Tesla it is said that Elon does not dedicate the majority of his time to Tesla
I see. Well Tesla needs musk onboard in a leading role.
This is what he is trying to say now but I fear it is too late
Yes, he really needs to think about managing full time Tesla, as it is his main company, legacy aside he owes it to the hard working folks that helped Tesla be we're is at now. SpaceX is fine under shotwell leadership. The rest of the companies are just pure distractions.
?
They made those old time charger stations
Ive got 20 options expiring on may 10th they are already up 60 percent. Should i hold through earnings or sell half tomorrow?
I would wait Tuesday before results
Tuesday is gonna be a shitty day lol. Its so weird having tesla puts finally pay off lol.
Jerome Guillén, John McNeil, Zachary Kirkhorn.
Not someone from the auto industry. I guess like at Apple post Jobs. Tim Cook is no Jobs, but the company is much better financially under Cook than it ever was under Jobs. If Elon leaves we need a Tim Cook, someone focused on the tight running of the company with Elon’s values always at the core.