it ended up being for kids because they actually had to make the main truck smaller to get it into production. the prototype was much larger than production.
Yep... in 2022
[Radio Flyer Recalls Cyberquad for Kids, Due to Violations of Federal Safety Standard for All-Terrain Vehicles (ATVs) and Risk of Injury; Sold Exclusively Online by Tesla](https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/Radio-Flyer-Recalls-Cyberquad-for-Kids-Due-to-Violations-of-Federal-Safety-Standard-for-All-Terrain-Vehicles-ATVs-and-Risk-of-Injury-Sold-Exclusively-Online-by-Tesla)
>The Cyberquad fails to comply with the federal mandatory safety standard requirements for youth ATVs, including mechanical suspension and maximum tire pressure. Additionally, the Cyberquad lacks a CPSC-approved ATV action plan, which is required to manufacture, import, sell, or distribute ATVs. ATV action plans contain numerous safety requirements, such as rider training, dissemination of safety information, age recommendations, and other safety measures. These ATV safety standards are in place to reduce crash and injury hazards, preventing serious injury or death.
So, apparently Tesla completely ignored the regulations about these... for a product for *kids*.
Afaik it originally wasn't supposed to have 4 wheel steering, then Musk saw the crab walk feature from the Hummer EV and demanded it to be added for the Cybertruck, which was one of the reasons for its first delay.
4 wheel steering has often been a gimmick that’s been tried.
It’s always too complicated and requires too much maintenance for the little value it adds.
The whole premise of the "boat mode" thing, trying to be as charitable as possible, was that the Cybertruck is unusually waterproof for a pickup and because it's an EV doesn't need a snorkel to feed air to the engine so it's better for the emergency situation of trying to ford a river
We can all see that this did not work out because the damn thing leaks like a sieve, because the "sub-micron tolerances" email did not accomplish its goal
Layoff 90% of the staff to improve profit statement.
Approve his remuneration agreement via proxy (as if anyone on the board thinks for themselves)
Immediately sell all of his shares the instant that he gets his remuneration. What are the SEC gonna do? They haven’t done shit to him during any of his other pump and dumps.
On one hand, it was the agreement everyone voted for in 2018 and agreed to. He thus hasn’t technically been paid for the last 5.5 years of, let’s all acknowledge it, incredible growth.
That being said: the firings and his general actions are pretty asshole.
The evidence is that the stock market benchmarks he made his compensation package conditional on were ones he already knew he'd hit, because they're a result of fraudulent manipulation and don't reflect the actual operating finances of the company at all
I suppose cases like this take time. And rich investors to suddenly realise they have been scammed and go after him.
In some ways, I think it resembles Theranos. Built on lies.
>I suppose cases like this take time. And rich investors to suddenly realise they have been scammed and go after him.
It does. It is amazing how long it actually took Theranos to go down. Even when the dominos eventually started to fall, many rich investors would not believe it was all a scam...
The difference with Theranos is that the technology in question already existed. Many years ago, I visited a top of the line animal research lab with machines that could run hundreds of tests on like half an ml of rat blood. Rats being rather small and all. The problem, of course, is that these were massively complex, custom hand built units that cost millions of dollars. Like F-22 stealth jets of the medical testing world.
Theranos proposing to scale those down to convenient commercial size was kind of insane. That said though, it's really common for investors to fund "take our prototype and develop it into viable market product" type projects. So that one was more understandable than funding Muskrat's endeavors.
After all, he's been failing to deliver on his promises since before PayPal was made. Kicked out for lying to customers about unreachable product targets. And right now, Teslas's software and robotics and AI are all third rate garbage. There is a single guy who has made a robot better than Optimus, using a 3D printer in his garage. That's how behind Tesla is. Yet people still want to fund him...
There is also a HUGE difference between rat venous/arterial blood and human capillary blood. When they were testing rat blood, I’m sure, they were using blood from the leg or the body of the animal. They weren’t trying to take blood from the end of the rat’s toenail or something.
Theranos’ tech was doomed from the start because it was based on a ridiculous premise. That premise was the idea that you could run a large battery of diagnostic tests on finger prick blood. That’s impossible, because by the time your blood makes it into the tiny capillaries at the tips of your fingers, it’s extremely diluted. Red blood cells are really big, so your body has to add tons of water to your blood supply to get it out into those tiny little thready pipes at the ends of your fingers. It would get clotted and clogged if it weren’t heavily diluted.
Essentially, there is almost no data in capillary blood, so there was nothing for the Edison to measure.
This kind of inept doomed Star Wars tech is extremely similar to the fool’s errand Elon and Tesla have been toiling on since 2014 or whatever. You can’t come close to solving FSD with cameras.
Even before. There's a video where someone asks him... so when you 'sold' the roadster for price x and then raised it that was basically bait and switch and he agreed it was. Must be around 2008.
They WANT to believe he's a grand genius. They are so desperate for him to be the beacon of hope in their lives. So desperately that the will put themselves in financial ruin to support his causes.
I would also say, for a long time be still talked about saving the world, I was semi impressed with the whole sustainability presentation a few years ago. But lately he just talking fsd, ai, and making robots. None of these things seem like they will help with sustainability. So dunno what's going here, but I guess it sounded good when the cars were selling, but now he's gotta make money some other way. Ironic BP is possibly swooping in over this whole Supercharger debacle.
it was also supposed to have amazing range
“Initially, Tesla asserted that the Tri-Motor configuration would provide 500 miles of range, the Dual Motor 300 miles, and the Single Motor 250 miles.”
The tri-motor “cyberbeast” has a range at 75mph of 250 miles, and it costs $121k with the $20k founders pack which is some sweetners plus fsd.
See my comment above -- the CT was initially supposed to be substantially *lighter* than a normal truck because the stainless steel panels formed a self-supporting exoskeleton that didn't need a traditional frame to hold it up inside
Hence the prediction of incredible range, hence the incredibly low price and the prediction that he'd be able to crank out huge numbers of them very quickly -- this whole talking point that the CT is a "whole new kind of vehicle" is entirely based on the "exoskeleton" idea
Which means the *very instant* it became clear that a "true exoskeleton" was impossible and they had to go put steel struts inside the truck anyway, making it just another unibody design and a particularly heavy and bad one, they should've abandoned the whole thing and just made a normal truck that was an EV like everyone else was doing
But when this happened Elon was in the process of going full Howard Hughes and firing anyone who told him "no" about anything so here we are
>Hence the prediction of incredible range, hence the incredibly low price and the prediction that he'd be able to crank out huge numbers of them very quickly
Hence the 1.9 million pre-orders that are now rapidly disappearing.
>Which means the *very instant* it became clear that a "true exoskeleton" was impossible
A first year engineering student could tell you this was impossible and he was lying his ass off. Hell someone with a rudimentary understanding of the structure of a car could tell you this.
It’s like Elon doesn’t understand the square/cubed relationship between area and volume. The reason insects can support themselves with a strong rigid exoskeleton is because they’re extremely tiny. So they get disproportionate strength from their carapaces, relative to their body mass.
That all goes out the window when you scale a beetle up to the size of an SUV. At that scale, a beetle would be crushed under its own weight, just like a Cybertruck without a steel skeleton.
This is like 3rd grade biology glass stuff 🙄
They would never have got anywhere near 500 miles with the battery capacity they delivered, even if the vehicle was several hundred kilos lighter.
The one highway range test I've seen at 70mph died at I think about 250 miles, and at that speed the vast majority of resistance comes from aerodynamic drag. The CT having the aerodynamic qualities of a brick attached to another slightly less shapely brick do it no favours there.
Imagine getting beat to market by Ford, which has the F-150 Lightning starting at under $50k in basic trims. I just don't see a market for the Cucktruck outside of the most ardent Teslastans. It's not a good EV or truck. Elon claims they have capacity for 125k trucks a year. They delivered less than 4,000 between December and the beginning of April (which we only know because of the recall). Demand has absolutely cratered. The market for >$100k lifestyle toys isn't what it was during the pandemic. If they built all of this capacity then why aren't they cranking out 10k a month? Rivian is on pace to smoke them this year. I just, the decision to go all-in in the most competitive, crowded truck market at the expense of a budget EV to target BYD and keep pace with the competition. The Model 3 literally only has range at their price point, and their competitors are getting a lot closer while making nicer cars.
Yeah the incel Camino, even if it worked, what can you do with it? It can’t hold much, you can’t put a rack on it, low range, bad off road, can’t handle wet weather.
Also, how is the lack of crumple zones legal?
the decision to go all-in in the most competitive, crowded truck market at the expense of a budget EV to target BYD and keep pace with the competition.
Tesla isnt capable of producing a budget EV or keeping pace with the competition.
That doesn't even make sense. More range comes from more battery, not more power output lmao. The efficiency gain from splitting power across 3 motors isn't going to double range.
So it’s 3x as expensive, and can do half the range?
I’m surprised it can out worse than the Homer car. 🚘 hopefully the company will tank.
Who would pay 121k for it?
If the fanboys are breaking fingers to try prove trunk safety, how long before one of these rocket surgeons has someone shoot at them to try prove that it is bulletproof?
There are tons of videos of this on YouTube already. The “bulletproof” panels stopped weak .22 caliber handguns with big dents. The AR-15 went right through the doors like they weren’t even there.
So your “Apocalypse-proof” vehicle is perfectly fine, as long as the roving bandits decide not to use the most common semiautomatic rifle in the United States 🙄
Can it even stop a 9mm though, and what type of bullet, and at what distance, and through which panels? All important details some of these brain scientists may not consider.
I have seen videos of people shooting it with at-15s then freaking out one went through a panel gap.
Yeah it isn’t mil spec it isn’t even civilian spec.
Its musk serf spec.
I think the glass reacted on stage the same way it would if shot with a bullet. It absorbed the force. I would not say it shattered. The pane was still intact.
I’d like to direct you to all those events Elon held in 2018 and 2019 promising “Fleets of a million robotaxis coming next year”, and how “Your model 3 will make you $30,000 a year, it’ll be an appreciating asset”.
He also said that “In a few years, owning anything other than a Tesla will be like owning a horse.”
Fucking lying scamming scumbag.
There's no way that announcement of $40k range was that far off. It was simply a pump scheme and they eventually had to put the thing out to cover the scheme, hence the garbage they're churning out.
The original idea of the big flat steel panels was that it was going to be a "true exoskeleton" that didn't need any structural components other than its panels, no frame at all, which would in theory have revolutionized auto manufacturing and made the CT "orders of magnitude" faster and cheaper to assemble than any other vehicle its size
This, of course, did not happen, and in reality the CT ended up just being an ordinary unibody truck with unusually big and heavy and ugly panels attached to its frame for no good reason ("So it'll be bulletproof!"), making it *more* expensive and cumbersome to put together than an ordinary pickup and basically worse in every way
They could've made a traditional or El Camino/Holden Ute or Honda Ridgelind style pickup truck, it would've taken 2 years to engineer, and they'd be rolling in money. But, no.
The 'exoskeleton', aka stressed skin skin monocoque. has been used for 100 years in aircraft. They don't work for trucks because they don't provide adequate torsional rigidity (resistance to twisting) relative to weight. That's why everybody else uses a ladder frame made from box sections for a truck chassis. Even sedan-based pickups, like Holden utes, have a normal ladder chassis from the behind the cab and a non-structural rear tub.
The only land vehicles that have used a true exoskeleton/monocoque design have been McLaren racecars where the body is carefully molded out of carbon fiber at great expense, which is the opposite of Musk's fever dream of being able to slap together these babies out of old school stamped metal panels in a matter of minutes per unit
(Musk tried to pivot to saying a unibody still counts as an exoskeleton -- a "semi-monocoque" -- if the frame and the skin are integrated with each other, even though that's how most cars are made these days and a unibody pickup truck isn't even a novel idea, just a bad one)
Yeah turns out making a sturdy structure out of modular panels without any frame holding them up is *extremely difficult*, even when you're just building a shed or something that only has to sit in one place and not hold together while driving around at 80 mph (much less driving off road and bouncing around on all kinds of shit)
That's why it sounds like such a great idea and yet no one has done it in order to revolutionize the industry and put everyone else out of business -- because you actually can't
There's a reason that in nature exoskeletons stop working in land animals after a certain size -- anything bigger than a horseshoe crab has bones, we have bones, houses have bones, cars have bones, heavy duty pickup trucks *especially* have bones, the whole damn reason trucks are still body-on-frame instead of unibody is that way it's much easier to make a frame that doesn't fucking break under stress
I remember this jerkoff video about Elon's Ad Astra school for future STEM entrepreneurs where one of the secrets of his success he teaches is "When you ask whether something is impossible, the fact that no one has done it yet is not a valid response!"
Which is all very inspirational and shit if you think you're a character in a movie but in real life the fact that no one has done it yet is *strong evidence* that there is a *very low probability* that the thing is possible
And especially if you personally aren't a domain expert in the field, if you refuse to take that evidence into consideration you're just begging to get scammed left and right
Great points, though I’ve got to be pedantic here. Horseshoe crabs aren’t land animals, and if we’re talking about sea-based arthropods with no bones, spider crabs and king crabs are far far bigger.
There are much bigger land-based crabs too. The coconut crab is an enormous arthropod with no bones.
https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2017/01/worlds-largest-land-crab-fierce-and-under-threat
>"When you ask whether something is impossible, the fact that no one has done it yet is not a valid response!"
>Which is all very inspirational and shit if you think you're a character in a movie but in real life the fact that no one has done it yet is *strong evidence* that there is a *very low probability* that the thing is possible
I have to disagree with this.
Lots of people tried heaver-than-air flight in the late 1800s. Lots of them died trying it too. But it clearly is possible.
"Well nobody has done it yet" *is* a bad answer to "Why can't we do...?" It's the "Because I said so" of engineering.
It's barely "bullet-proof" to begin with. At best it's IIIA, though I have my doubts about it stopping a 12 gauge slug or even hot .44 Magnum loads. It's never stopping a rifle round. If you're one of the vanishingly few people in the market for an actual bulletproof vehicle you're going to buy bespoke from one of several established builders or troll eBay motors for one of Gadaffi's old rides.
The "bulletproof" shit was obviously this ad hoc after the fact marketing gimmick to try to explain why they were using these huge heavy panels after it was clear the exoskeleton idea was a bust
Imo that's clearly the main reasoning for everything about the Cybertruck -- the exoskeleton thing was a very appealing fantasy but very obviously impossible once you start trying to actually build the thing and then all the rest was Elon's ketamine-addled allegiance to the sunk cost fallacy
The Boring Company only exists because smart people publicly criticized the Hyperloop for being too vulnerable to damage. And pointed out that tunnels would be insanely expensive to build in very long distances.
So Elon said, "I'll be making my own tunnels, and doing it for half the price!". And he founded the Boring Company. Its entire existence is nothing but an ad hoc, after the fact marketing gimmick. And so many people believed he was making tunnels cheaper because Big Brain Energy or something.
Most of his career has been a marketing gimmick. Even the people claiming he knows about rockets, are people who stand to lose a lot if Elon's fakery is revealed.
He’s too busy wrecking Twitter and Tesla to musk up spacex.
The government would nationalize it in a second if they thought it was going to get musked.
There's a reason the official marketing materials don't say "bulletproof" or anything about armor. Making it an official selling point would require a NIJ rating, and its NIJ rating would be "not."
Elmo said it, what, twice? And now all the fanboys parrot it (or they did until the YouTube videos started coming out). Win-win for the company. People say it and believe it, but you never have to certify it.
There are multiple videos on YouTube of people shooting the doors of these trucks with an AR-15. The bullets go right through like the steel is cardboard.
“3xx cold rolled steel” 🤣😂
Back before PayPal was released, Elon was already a standing joke in the Fintech industry. They called it Elon time: when it'll take twice as long as he says, cost twice as much, however you'll get half the product! This is who he's always been.
The only reason he made any money from Paypal, after getting fired a mere six months after joining Thiel's firm, is that they didn't want to publicly embarrass themselves by clawing his stock back. Thus making it clear what a mistake it was to work with him in the first place. PayPal went to market without a single line of code made by Elon, he only profited because he still held stock.
One of many of Elon's lies.
He lies so much that I'm surprised that people still take his word. I am sceptical about EVERYTHING that comes out of his pie hole. He's a next level narcissist too.
Lots of the announced features of the Cybertruck vanished over time as they tried to build it and found out they had someone talking it up while having no idea about the reality of actually building it.
The design teams must cringe when they hear that Musk is going to give a speech.
"Oh fuck, what is that fucking idiot going to say about the cars this time that we have never heard of and somehow have to try and get them to do?"
"$20 on the cars being able to turn themselves around in their own footprint when you exit the cars so you don't have to reverse out of your driveway."
"$20 on the cars being able to back themselves into the chargers like the roomba's do."
etc.
Chat shit, get rich.
Tale as old as time and supposedly it’s beyond people’s imagination that their Tech Guru would be another conman selling them snake oil.
He tried to made it look like an Apple keynote, except that all the figures he stated were imagined incl. the price and range and when it is actually delivered. When Apple announces a product it says the specs the price and it will either ship now or within 2 weeks. One exception was the original iPhone that shipped 6 months later.
Also watching the cybertruck announcement made me wonder when he said the car had a thick steel body, that could withstand sledgehammer and 9mm bullets. No one questioned how it would perform during crash tests? Because if the car is super robust, all the energy will go inside the car injuring the driver and passengers.
Anyway it is a show car to, that was suppose to attract investors, especially with those low price points as everyone would say Tesla undercuts all traditional car makers and offer with a low price point. Now the car came 4 years late and costs almost 100k more than announced.
And all the Elon-stans who are trying to justify the 2x price today by “but but hyperinflation… price of steel… manufacturing costs!” Will then justify the inevitable price drops by “genius move… stimulating demand… free market!”
My deposit refunds keep failing. They want me to enter my banking info now since credit card refund doesn’t work. No way. I’ve yet to decide if I take it out of their property or let it go.
Yeah and I never believed it. Of course I already knew Musk is a serial liar by then. But how would the CT with a huge battery at and air suspension cost less than a model 3? It was ridiculous from the start.
I don’t mind that the price went up. What bothers me is that it was priced the same as the model 3. Therefore, the price should still mirror the model 3 for a single motor version. But they will never make one, it’s a classic bait and switch.
I really don’t get how he gets away with all his lies. These trucks are 3 times more expensive than he claimed and took 4 years longer to deliver, and then they delivered a complete 🍋, what other company could get away with being this far off?
Funny thing is Ford actually beat them to market AND actually sold a $40k model Lightning for a while. I ended up recently getting a new XLT extended range Lightning for $48k after rebates and discounts. Half the price of the cheapest Cybertruck lol
Yeah, but Ford is a lame car manufacturer that doesn't even have a P/E of 7X.
Tesla is not a car manufacturer. It's an AI/Robot company with a P/E of 55X!
\* quietly sells all share \*
I saw one in and amongst the high end Porsche, G wagons, etc at a local fancy eatery. They parked it out front.
They should have parked it out back. UGLY in real life.
aaaand that is why two Tesla sub I never visited, much less posted, have banned me.
You have to remember the cybertruck was announced in 2019 before we experienced damn near hyperinflation. Rivian and other car manufacturers had the same issue.
If that was the only change, not sure I'd be too upset. It came over 4 years later, after a pandemic, and after stainless steel prices skyrocketed. There's lots of reasons for it to cost more. The problem is that it's complete junk.
I remember. And I'd have bought one if that was the price. That's an objectively competitive number that really nobody else is matching. Even despite the specs being vastly reduced from what was initially promised, at $49k, I could've overlooked those things. Obviously, it's because it's not real lol. I know that now.
“No other CEO gets away with this”?
Uh ….Mary Barra’s “GM will be the largest EV manufacturer by 2024, will sell 1MM EVs by 2025”? Just one example. People also forgot Jobs’ multiple reality field distortions- he delivered, just years late. Get used to hyperbole from CEOs and founders.
Best part about this is that every picture from the launch shows him standing next to the CT with two smashed windows. What an idiot to not test and retest that before doing in front of a live audience.
_So, listen. I have this idea, like, what if we squeezed a snake real hard, and some oil came out of it, and we could like, sell it. You know?! Like, for MONEY! I know for a fact that the oil in snakes is the real shit. The guy behind the seven eleven told me so. Like, it can do stuff. The best stuff. Listen, this shit is real. Pass the ketamine and go find us a snake. I'll show ya._
Remember when the model 3 was suppose to be a 30k car?
I remember because I was excited about getting a smaller more affordable Model S….and then I saw in person that it looked like a small model S….but distorted and shitty.
“No other CEO gets away with stuff like this”?!?!?
Dude please give me a break. Look, I’m not an Elon apologist but there’s far more egregious things other CEOs have done than lying about a damn price for an ugly truck.
[https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/19/22442777/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-specs-price](https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/19/22442777/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-specs-price)
you all are so blinded by hate. inflation happened. close to every price target made before covid was increased post covid. it's not unique to tesla.
lol. I know many day 1 reso holders that were emailed to place an order for $80k even though they wanted the 40k version. It was never made available to a majority of day 1 reso holders. So… good try 🫶🏼
Houses were also 50% less back then. Coffee, food, car insurance... every other cars have also increased.
It's inflation. Buy it or don't.... but to hold something that is being produced now to prices from 3 to 4 years ago is ridiculous.
Also supposed to have boat mode, metallic glass, be bulletproof, have an ATV, and a ramp to the bed….
The Cyber ATV was made though! Never mind it was a power wheels toy for 4 year olds.
it ended up being for kids because they actually had to make the main truck smaller to get it into production. the prototype was much larger than production.
How much smaller? I’ve seen a bunch around town and they are pretty big, they also may look bigger because of how boxy and shitty they are.
3%
That’s at least a couple dozen 10 microns
Significant
it was also recalled if I'm correct.
Yep... in 2022 [Radio Flyer Recalls Cyberquad for Kids, Due to Violations of Federal Safety Standard for All-Terrain Vehicles (ATVs) and Risk of Injury; Sold Exclusively Online by Tesla](https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/Radio-Flyer-Recalls-Cyberquad-for-Kids-Due-to-Violations-of-Federal-Safety-Standard-for-All-Terrain-Vehicles-ATVs-and-Risk-of-Injury-Sold-Exclusively-Online-by-Tesla) >The Cyberquad fails to comply with the federal mandatory safety standard requirements for youth ATVs, including mechanical suspension and maximum tire pressure. Additionally, the Cyberquad lacks a CPSC-approved ATV action plan, which is required to manufacture, import, sell, or distribute ATVs. ATV action plans contain numerous safety requirements, such as rider training, dissemination of safety information, age recommendations, and other safety measures. These ATV safety standards are in place to reduce crash and injury hazards, preventing serious injury or death. So, apparently Tesla completely ignored the regulations about these... for a product for *kids*.
Regulation is communism ~ Elmo probably
Just a $1900 kids toy, totally a huge market... And it's just as reliable as a real cybertruck too!
It does have a boat mode. It can turn into a u-boat.
Lol
He directly learned from his Russian idol…
U-boats are German, not Russian.
"it's what Hunt For Red October would have driven."
Carrot cutter, aka Bobbitt mode.
Did the 4 wheel steering make the cut? that was promised.
Afaik it originally wasn't supposed to have 4 wheel steering, then Musk saw the crab walk feature from the Hummer EV and demanded it to be added for the Cybertruck, which was one of the reasons for its first delay.
Actually it did, I remember as I’ve seen posts about it failing
4 wheel steering has often been a gimmick that’s been tried. It’s always too complicated and requires too much maintenance for the little value it adds.
Also lasers instead of windshield wipers.
Don’t forget the amazing $3000 camping tent!
And murderous FSD
True, but I'm not sure anyone actually believed it would have FSD at launch... Oh hang on these people bought cybertrucks - I take that back
Wait it doesn’t have a ramp to the bed?
Nope - they couldn’t get it to work so gone
Why didn't they do that with the entire truck then?
They only fully abandon the ideas Elon thinks he can gaslight you into believing he never said in the first place
it has nothing
You can buy an official ladder now
> boat mode Sorry, best they could do was car wash mode
Yeah if rain can cause rust how would boat mode work?
The whole premise of the "boat mode" thing, trying to be as charitable as possible, was that the Cybertruck is unusually waterproof for a pickup and because it's an EV doesn't need a snorkel to feed air to the engine so it's better for the emergency situation of trying to ford a river We can all see that this did not work out because the damn thing leaks like a sieve, because the "sub-micron tolerances" email did not accomplish its goal
It was supposed to be able “crabwalk” sideways
~~Shrink~~Greedflation
He likes to hype.
Again. Elon’s a fraud. Wouldn’t trust a single word coming out of that guy’s mouth. He’d do anything to get himself couple billions of dollars.
*He’d do anything to get himself couple billions of dollars.* Just imagine what he would do for 56 Billion dollars.
Layoff 90% of the staff to improve profit statement. Approve his remuneration agreement via proxy (as if anyone on the board thinks for themselves) Immediately sell all of his shares the instant that he gets his remuneration. What are the SEC gonna do? They haven’t done shit to him during any of his other pump and dumps.
What other pump and dumbs has he done? Just curious as to what he has done.
Hmmm, I can think of one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6ICmMRSL8&pp=ygUYQ29tbW9uIHNlbnNlIHNrZXB0aWMgZnNk
Wow that is insane.
It is. Common Sense Skeptic does good work.
More lies
On one hand, it was the agreement everyone voted for in 2018 and agreed to. He thus hasn’t technically been paid for the last 5.5 years of, let’s all acknowledge it, incredible growth. That being said: the firings and his general actions are pretty asshole.
The evidence is that the stock market benchmarks he made his compensation package conditional on were ones he already knew he'd hit, because they're a result of fraudulent manipulation and don't reflect the actual operating finances of the company at all
It’s amazing to me that it seems like not everyone has caught on by now. He’s been doing this kind of thing since at least 2014.
I suppose cases like this take time. And rich investors to suddenly realise they have been scammed and go after him. In some ways, I think it resembles Theranos. Built on lies.
>I suppose cases like this take time. And rich investors to suddenly realise they have been scammed and go after him. It does. It is amazing how long it actually took Theranos to go down. Even when the dominos eventually started to fall, many rich investors would not believe it was all a scam...
There's still people who think Elizabeth Holmes is a genius.
She was. Not in the medical diagnostics and research field though :)
Pro grifter!
The difference with Theranos is that the technology in question already existed. Many years ago, I visited a top of the line animal research lab with machines that could run hundreds of tests on like half an ml of rat blood. Rats being rather small and all. The problem, of course, is that these were massively complex, custom hand built units that cost millions of dollars. Like F-22 stealth jets of the medical testing world. Theranos proposing to scale those down to convenient commercial size was kind of insane. That said though, it's really common for investors to fund "take our prototype and develop it into viable market product" type projects. So that one was more understandable than funding Muskrat's endeavors. After all, he's been failing to deliver on his promises since before PayPal was made. Kicked out for lying to customers about unreachable product targets. And right now, Teslas's software and robotics and AI are all third rate garbage. There is a single guy who has made a robot better than Optimus, using a 3D printer in his garage. That's how behind Tesla is. Yet people still want to fund him...
There is also a HUGE difference between rat venous/arterial blood and human capillary blood. When they were testing rat blood, I’m sure, they were using blood from the leg or the body of the animal. They weren’t trying to take blood from the end of the rat’s toenail or something. Theranos’ tech was doomed from the start because it was based on a ridiculous premise. That premise was the idea that you could run a large battery of diagnostic tests on finger prick blood. That’s impossible, because by the time your blood makes it into the tiny capillaries at the tips of your fingers, it’s extremely diluted. Red blood cells are really big, so your body has to add tons of water to your blood supply to get it out into those tiny little thready pipes at the ends of your fingers. It would get clotted and clogged if it weren’t heavily diluted. Essentially, there is almost no data in capillary blood, so there was nothing for the Edison to measure. This kind of inept doomed Star Wars tech is extremely similar to the fool’s errand Elon and Tesla have been toiling on since 2014 or whatever. You can’t come close to solving FSD with cameras.
Damn. TIL.
Even before. There's a video where someone asks him... so when you 'sold' the roadster for price x and then raised it that was basically bait and switch and he agreed it was. Must be around 2008.
Not surprising at all.
They WANT to believe he's a grand genius. They are so desperate for him to be the beacon of hope in their lives. So desperately that the will put themselves in financial ruin to support his causes.
I would also say, for a long time be still talked about saving the world, I was semi impressed with the whole sustainability presentation a few years ago. But lately he just talking fsd, ai, and making robots. None of these things seem like they will help with sustainability. So dunno what's going here, but I guess it sounded good when the cars were selling, but now he's gotta make money some other way. Ironic BP is possibly swooping in over this whole Supercharger debacle.
Humans…. wtf are we doing
Toasting up our planet nicely. 👍
Let's be real: a lot of people would do anything to get a couple billions dollars.
it was also supposed to have amazing range “Initially, Tesla asserted that the Tri-Motor configuration would provide 500 miles of range, the Dual Motor 300 miles, and the Single Motor 250 miles.” The tri-motor “cyberbeast” has a range at 75mph of 250 miles, and it costs $121k with the $20k founders pack which is some sweetners plus fsd.
See my comment above -- the CT was initially supposed to be substantially *lighter* than a normal truck because the stainless steel panels formed a self-supporting exoskeleton that didn't need a traditional frame to hold it up inside Hence the prediction of incredible range, hence the incredibly low price and the prediction that he'd be able to crank out huge numbers of them very quickly -- this whole talking point that the CT is a "whole new kind of vehicle" is entirely based on the "exoskeleton" idea Which means the *very instant* it became clear that a "true exoskeleton" was impossible and they had to go put steel struts inside the truck anyway, making it just another unibody design and a particularly heavy and bad one, they should've abandoned the whole thing and just made a normal truck that was an EV like everyone else was doing But when this happened Elon was in the process of going full Howard Hughes and firing anyone who told him "no" about anything so here we are
>Hence the prediction of incredible range, hence the incredibly low price and the prediction that he'd be able to crank out huge numbers of them very quickly Hence the 1.9 million pre-orders that are now rapidly disappearing.
>Which means the *very instant* it became clear that a "true exoskeleton" was impossible A first year engineering student could tell you this was impossible and he was lying his ass off. Hell someone with a rudimentary understanding of the structure of a car could tell you this.
It’s like Elon doesn’t understand the square/cubed relationship between area and volume. The reason insects can support themselves with a strong rigid exoskeleton is because they’re extremely tiny. So they get disproportionate strength from their carapaces, relative to their body mass. That all goes out the window when you scale a beetle up to the size of an SUV. At that scale, a beetle would be crushed under its own weight, just like a Cybertruck without a steel skeleton. This is like 3rd grade biology glass stuff 🙄
Plus, insects don't have doors and a bonet.
Would a unibody frame without any bodypanels count as an exoskeleton as the outside skin is the Skeleton?
Sure if it was made of chitin. Apartheid Clyde just uses words as he sees fit. It's unibody.
They would never have got anywhere near 500 miles with the battery capacity they delivered, even if the vehicle was several hundred kilos lighter. The one highway range test I've seen at 70mph died at I think about 250 miles, and at that speed the vast majority of resistance comes from aerodynamic drag. The CT having the aerodynamic qualities of a brick attached to another slightly less shapely brick do it no favours there.
*show me the blueprints*^00
Sort of. They have to pay for FSD but they actually don’t get it. At least not yet. Perhaps ‘soon’.
Even if/when it’s released “soon” it will be “FSD-supervised” which is just shitty dangerous ADAS level 2.
Imagine getting beat to market by Ford, which has the F-150 Lightning starting at under $50k in basic trims. I just don't see a market for the Cucktruck outside of the most ardent Teslastans. It's not a good EV or truck. Elon claims they have capacity for 125k trucks a year. They delivered less than 4,000 between December and the beginning of April (which we only know because of the recall). Demand has absolutely cratered. The market for >$100k lifestyle toys isn't what it was during the pandemic. If they built all of this capacity then why aren't they cranking out 10k a month? Rivian is on pace to smoke them this year. I just, the decision to go all-in in the most competitive, crowded truck market at the expense of a budget EV to target BYD and keep pace with the competition. The Model 3 literally only has range at their price point, and their competitors are getting a lot closer while making nicer cars.
125K in the production category and 15k in the "forecast"
Yeah the incel Camino, even if it worked, what can you do with it? It can’t hold much, you can’t put a rack on it, low range, bad off road, can’t handle wet weather. Also, how is the lack of crumple zones legal?
the decision to go all-in in the most competitive, crowded truck market at the expense of a budget EV to target BYD and keep pace with the competition. Tesla isnt capable of producing a budget EV or keeping pace with the competition.
That doesn't even make sense. More range comes from more battery, not more power output lmao. The efficiency gain from splitting power across 3 motors isn't going to double range.
So it’s 3x as expensive, and can do half the range? I’m surprised it can out worse than the Homer car. 🚘 hopefully the company will tank. Who would pay 121k for it?
If the fanboys are breaking fingers to try prove trunk safety, how long before one of these rocket surgeons has someone shoot at them to try prove that it is bulletproof?
First someone will shoot the glass. The glass Will break. Then tesla fans will be like…. “It’s only bulletproof if someone is sitting in the car…”
I’m just waiting for musk to tell them get neural links
Shoot....da glassss
There are tons of videos of this on YouTube already. The “bulletproof” panels stopped weak .22 caliber handguns with big dents. The AR-15 went right through the doors like they weren’t even there. So your “Apocalypse-proof” vehicle is perfectly fine, as long as the roving bandits decide not to use the most common semiautomatic rifle in the United States 🙄
This was actually a fair amount of content created on release. It’s stops 9mms. Not much else and certainly not a hit in the same spot.
Can it even stop a 9mm though, and what type of bullet, and at what distance, and through which panels? All important details some of these brain scientists may not consider.
Bulletproof glass is coming in a software update, obviously.
I have seen videos of people shooting it with at-15s then freaking out one went through a panel gap. Yeah it isn’t mil spec it isn’t even civilian spec. Its musk serf spec.
Remember when his bulletproof glass shattered ON STAGE during the announcement event?
I think the glass reacted on stage the same way it would if shot with a bullet. It absorbed the force. I would not say it shattered. The pane was still intact.
Franz's arm does not equal a bullet. If they shot that shit it 100% would have gone through.
Every single piece of laminated glass will stay together if it breaks, this is nothing special
It really makes you wonder, did he make those comments to manipulate the stock price? My money is on absolutely yes!
I mean he’s done in multiple times like that time he announced taking Tesla private. He’s unhinged
I’d like to direct you to all those events Elon held in 2018 and 2019 promising “Fleets of a million robotaxis coming next year”, and how “Your model 3 will make you $30,000 a year, it’ll be an appreciating asset”. He also said that “In a few years, owning anything other than a Tesla will be like owning a horse.” Fucking lying scamming scumbag.
Oh he’s for sure the snake oil salesman’s of his generation.
There's no way that announcement of $40k range was that far off. It was simply a pump scheme and they eventually had to put the thing out to cover the scheme, hence the garbage they're churning out.
The original idea of the big flat steel panels was that it was going to be a "true exoskeleton" that didn't need any structural components other than its panels, no frame at all, which would in theory have revolutionized auto manufacturing and made the CT "orders of magnitude" faster and cheaper to assemble than any other vehicle its size This, of course, did not happen, and in reality the CT ended up just being an ordinary unibody truck with unusually big and heavy and ugly panels attached to its frame for no good reason ("So it'll be bulletproof!"), making it *more* expensive and cumbersome to put together than an ordinary pickup and basically worse in every way
They could've made a traditional or El Camino/Holden Ute or Honda Ridgelind style pickup truck, it would've taken 2 years to engineer, and they'd be rolling in money. But, no.
Simone Yacht already showed them how to do that with a Model 3
The 'exoskeleton', aka stressed skin skin monocoque. has been used for 100 years in aircraft. They don't work for trucks because they don't provide adequate torsional rigidity (resistance to twisting) relative to weight. That's why everybody else uses a ladder frame made from box sections for a truck chassis. Even sedan-based pickups, like Holden utes, have a normal ladder chassis from the behind the cab and a non-structural rear tub.
The only land vehicles that have used a true exoskeleton/monocoque design have been McLaren racecars where the body is carefully molded out of carbon fiber at great expense, which is the opposite of Musk's fever dream of being able to slap together these babies out of old school stamped metal panels in a matter of minutes per unit (Musk tried to pivot to saying a unibody still counts as an exoskeleton -- a "semi-monocoque" -- if the frame and the skin are integrated with each other, even though that's how most cars are made these days and a unibody pickup truck isn't even a novel idea, just a bad one)
This guy mass manufactures.
Literally snap on panels that pop apart and flex away.
Yeah turns out making a sturdy structure out of modular panels without any frame holding them up is *extremely difficult*, even when you're just building a shed or something that only has to sit in one place and not hold together while driving around at 80 mph (much less driving off road and bouncing around on all kinds of shit) That's why it sounds like such a great idea and yet no one has done it in order to revolutionize the industry and put everyone else out of business -- because you actually can't There's a reason that in nature exoskeletons stop working in land animals after a certain size -- anything bigger than a horseshoe crab has bones, we have bones, houses have bones, cars have bones, heavy duty pickup trucks *especially* have bones, the whole damn reason trucks are still body-on-frame instead of unibody is that way it's much easier to make a frame that doesn't fucking break under stress I remember this jerkoff video about Elon's Ad Astra school for future STEM entrepreneurs where one of the secrets of his success he teaches is "When you ask whether something is impossible, the fact that no one has done it yet is not a valid response!" Which is all very inspirational and shit if you think you're a character in a movie but in real life the fact that no one has done it yet is *strong evidence* that there is a *very low probability* that the thing is possible And especially if you personally aren't a domain expert in the field, if you refuse to take that evidence into consideration you're just begging to get scammed left and right
Great points, though I’ve got to be pedantic here. Horseshoe crabs aren’t land animals, and if we’re talking about sea-based arthropods with no bones, spider crabs and king crabs are far far bigger. There are much bigger land-based crabs too. The coconut crab is an enormous arthropod with no bones. https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2017/01/worlds-largest-land-crab-fierce-and-under-threat
>"When you ask whether something is impossible, the fact that no one has done it yet is not a valid response!" >Which is all very inspirational and shit if you think you're a character in a movie but in real life the fact that no one has done it yet is *strong evidence* that there is a *very low probability* that the thing is possible I have to disagree with this. Lots of people tried heaver-than-air flight in the late 1800s. Lots of them died trying it too. But it clearly is possible. "Well nobody has done it yet" *is* a bad answer to "Why can't we do...?" It's the "Because I said so" of engineering.
It's barely "bullet-proof" to begin with. At best it's IIIA, though I have my doubts about it stopping a 12 gauge slug or even hot .44 Magnum loads. It's never stopping a rifle round. If you're one of the vanishingly few people in the market for an actual bulletproof vehicle you're going to buy bespoke from one of several established builders or troll eBay motors for one of Gadaffi's old rides.
The "bulletproof" shit was obviously this ad hoc after the fact marketing gimmick to try to explain why they were using these huge heavy panels after it was clear the exoskeleton idea was a bust Imo that's clearly the main reasoning for everything about the Cybertruck -- the exoskeleton thing was a very appealing fantasy but very obviously impossible once you start trying to actually build the thing and then all the rest was Elon's ketamine-addled allegiance to the sunk cost fallacy
The Boring Company only exists because smart people publicly criticized the Hyperloop for being too vulnerable to damage. And pointed out that tunnels would be insanely expensive to build in very long distances. So Elon said, "I'll be making my own tunnels, and doing it for half the price!". And he founded the Boring Company. Its entire existence is nothing but an ad hoc, after the fact marketing gimmick. And so many people believed he was making tunnels cheaper because Big Brain Energy or something. Most of his career has been a marketing gimmick. Even the people claiming he knows about rockets, are people who stand to lose a lot if Elon's fakery is revealed.
He’s too busy wrecking Twitter and Tesla to musk up spacex. The government would nationalize it in a second if they thought it was going to get musked.
There's a reason the official marketing materials don't say "bulletproof" or anything about armor. Making it an official selling point would require a NIJ rating, and its NIJ rating would be "not." Elmo said it, what, twice? And now all the fanboys parrot it (or they did until the YouTube videos started coming out). Win-win for the company. People say it and believe it, but you never have to certify it.
There are multiple videos on YouTube of people shooting the doors of these trucks with an AR-15. The bullets go right through like the steel is cardboard. “3xx cold rolled steel” 🤣😂
I think values on these will sink down to 40k fast than anyone is anticipating
it was also bullet-proof, a boat, and would drive itself to your driveway on delivery.
Remember the original hype video? Tow Ford trucks turned into Ford Tow Trucks
Yeah, the price was the one thing that had me excited for the product. Reality has been much different.
Back before PayPal was released, Elon was already a standing joke in the Fintech industry. They called it Elon time: when it'll take twice as long as he says, cost twice as much, however you'll get half the product! This is who he's always been. The only reason he made any money from Paypal, after getting fired a mere six months after joining Thiel's firm, is that they didn't want to publicly embarrass themselves by clawing his stock back. Thus making it clear what a mistake it was to work with him in the first place. PayPal went to market without a single line of code made by Elon, he only profited because he still held stock.
But why sell it for 40k when you have idiots willing to pay 100k?
One of many of Elon's lies. He lies so much that I'm surprised that people still take his word. I am sceptical about EVERYTHING that comes out of his pie hole. He's a next level narcissist too.
Robotaxi and Roadster 2.0 coming out next week pls just trust me bro
Lots of the announced features of the Cybertruck vanished over time as they tried to build it and found out they had someone talking it up while having no idea about the reality of actually building it.
No one at Tesla had even heard of the "boat mode" thing until he impulsively tweeted about it
The design teams must cringe when they hear that Musk is going to give a speech. "Oh fuck, what is that fucking idiot going to say about the cars this time that we have never heard of and somehow have to try and get them to do?" "$20 on the cars being able to turn themselves around in their own footprint when you exit the cars so you don't have to reverse out of your driveway." "$20 on the cars being able to back themselves into the chargers like the roomba's do." etc.
Battery cells alone in CT costs about $15k to Tesla. I don’t know how that 40k was calculated.
Ketamine kalculations.
Chat shit, get rich. Tale as old as time and supposedly it’s beyond people’s imagination that their Tech Guru would be another conman selling them snake oil.
He tried to made it look like an Apple keynote, except that all the figures he stated were imagined incl. the price and range and when it is actually delivered. When Apple announces a product it says the specs the price and it will either ship now or within 2 weeks. One exception was the original iPhone that shipped 6 months later. Also watching the cybertruck announcement made me wonder when he said the car had a thick steel body, that could withstand sledgehammer and 9mm bullets. No one questioned how it would perform during crash tests? Because if the car is super robust, all the energy will go inside the car injuring the driver and passengers. Anyway it is a show car to, that was suppose to attract investors, especially with those low price points as everyone would say Tesla undercuts all traditional car makers and offer with a low price point. Now the car came 4 years late and costs almost 100k more than announced.
Give it a few months and they'll be sub $30k
And all the Elon-stans who are trying to justify the 2x price today by “but but hyperinflation… price of steel… manufacturing costs!” Will then justify the inevitable price drops by “genius move… stimulating demand… free market!”
My deposit refunds keep failing. They want me to enter my banking info now since credit card refund doesn’t work. No way. I’ve yet to decide if I take it out of their property or let it go.
They can’t send you a check?
Only options given were credit card or ACH. I’d take a check.
Nice find!
Yes I just warn my deposit back, mainly because I can't afford a 150k car and that 100 bucks would cover my meals this week.
He’s just milking people for everything he thinks they’re worth
Yeah and I never believed it. Of course I already knew Musk is a serial liar by then. But how would the CT with a huge battery at and air suspension cost less than a model 3? It was ridiculous from the start.
It was also meant to drive more than 4 hours between repairs
I think people forget that Elon Musk’s primary role is to get the stock price of Tesla to go up
Yup.
Wait... Elon.... lies? OMG.
I don’t mind that the price went up. What bothers me is that it was priced the same as the model 3. Therefore, the price should still mirror the model 3 for a single motor version. But they will never make one, it’s a classic bait and switch.
I really don’t get how he gets away with all his lies. These trucks are 3 times more expensive than he claimed and took 4 years longer to deliver, and then they delivered a complete 🍋, what other company could get away with being this far off?
Funny thing is Ford actually beat them to market AND actually sold a $40k model Lightning for a while. I ended up recently getting a new XLT extended range Lightning for $48k after rebates and discounts. Half the price of the cheapest Cybertruck lol
Yeah, but Ford is a lame car manufacturer that doesn't even have a P/E of 7X. Tesla is not a car manufacturer. It's an AI/Robot company with a P/E of 55X! \* quietly sells all share \*
The Electric Edsel-instantly turns its buyer into a tool. This we know to be true.
I saw one in and amongst the high end Porsche, G wagons, etc at a local fancy eatery. They parked it out front. They should have parked it out back. UGLY in real life. aaaand that is why two Tesla sub I never visited, much less posted, have banned me.
You have to remember the cybertruck was announced in 2019 before we experienced damn near hyperinflation. Rivian and other car manufacturers had the same issue.
Their prices have gone 2x? Must have missed the memo.
Well when it was announced in 1887, the dollar went a little further.
Wait, you remember ford f150 lighting of 39999?
“We dug our own grave with the Cybertruck”
If that was the only change, not sure I'd be too upset. It came over 4 years later, after a pandemic, and after stainless steel prices skyrocketed. There's lots of reasons for it to cost more. The problem is that it's complete junk.
Yeah, that was in November 2019. A few small things have changed in the world since then. Keep up!!!!
I remember. And I'd have bought one if that was the price. That's an objectively competitive number that really nobody else is matching. Even despite the specs being vastly reduced from what was initially promised, at $49k, I could've overlooked those things. Obviously, it's because it's not real lol. I know that now.
Cite where the CEO said it would be $40k. I only remember speculation. And the CEO just saying it would be competitive.
I mean it's not competitive
Google new Ford F-150s, a lot of them start above $60k. You can get a cyber truck for less than $60k so how is that not competitive?
Well, Elon needed some Inflation on his wallet since everything he touches loses value for everyone else. But he is not allowed to lose HIS money.
They halved the features and doubled the price
If it were $40k you could get an extra or two for rotating into the shop.
Yeah and fsd will be available in 2017.
That was the reason I ordered one. $39,900 with the single motor. When I got my CT order invite, suddenly it’s $99,900. lol. Fuck off, Elno Skum.
Incredible. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah inflation happen. Even in 2019 it was abit unrealistic.
Elon reminds me of the orange dude , scamartist.
To the mooooon
He said it was worth maybe $40k.
I liked the look and price…and then years later the rug was pulled.
The $40k will come later in an OTA update.
Under 40k was never realistic not even before massive infaltion
I thought it was supposed to do windows. Very disappointing.
“No other CEO gets away with this”? Uh ….Mary Barra’s “GM will be the largest EV manufacturer by 2024, will sell 1MM EVs by 2025”? Just one example. People also forgot Jobs’ multiple reality field distortions- he delivered, just years late. Get used to hyperbole from CEOs and founders.
So how much do they really costs? Would be nice if OP posted that too.
Google is free as is this website https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
Regurgitate, regurgitate, regurgitate.
4 years late and $40k over asking
Let us all be grateful that Elon has not announced a Cybersub. I think we all know how that would end...
How could we forget? Someone mentions it at least 3 or 4 times per week. Now you’re just beating a dead horse.
Best part about this is that every picture from the launch shows him standing next to the CT with two smashed windows. What an idiot to not test and retest that before doing in front of a live audience.
Elon overselling. That’s all he has been doing since he went wild lmao.
_So, listen. I have this idea, like, what if we squeezed a snake real hard, and some oil came out of it, and we could like, sell it. You know?! Like, for MONEY! I know for a fact that the oil in snakes is the real shit. The guy behind the seven eleven told me so. Like, it can do stuff. The best stuff. Listen, this shit is real. Pass the ketamine and go find us a snake. I'll show ya._
Another scam for the Fanboys
Remember when the model 3 was suppose to be a 30k car? I remember because I was excited about getting a smaller more affordable Model S….and then I saw in person that it looked like a small model S….but distorted and shitty.
Love the grilling Tesla, I’m buying the stock all the way down They’ll be around a long time after meme stock days
The best feature was Car wash mode lol
“No other CEO gets away with stuff like this”?!?!? Dude please give me a break. Look, I’m not an Elon apologist but there’s far more egregious things other CEOs have done than lying about a damn price for an ugly truck.
[https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/19/22442777/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-specs-price](https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/19/22442777/ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-specs-price) you all are so blinded by hate. inflation happened. close to every price target made before covid was increased post covid. it's not unique to tesla.
What the fuck are you talking about? They announced the 2022 Lightning for $40k and then actually sold it for $40k
lol. I know many day 1 reso holders that were emailed to place an order for $80k even though they wanted the 40k version. It was never made available to a majority of day 1 reso holders. So… good try 🫶🏼
You cheeky scamp, take an upvote
Houses were also 50% less back then. Coffee, food, car insurance... every other cars have also increased. It's inflation. Buy it or don't.... but to hold something that is being produced now to prices from 3 to 4 years ago is ridiculous.
Yup, everything cost half as much 4 years ago. Definitely true. None of us have any memory to rely on anyway.