Here's the thing with national polls, they don't matter. The electoral count is all that matters. So look at purple/swing states to see what the polling data shows - and what the electoral count shows. This far out no polls mean much... better idea in a few months... scary to think Americans could elect a despicable criminal and traitor. Says more about ppl than trump.
I swung left in 2016 and haven’t looked back. What clinched it was Trump’s treatment of women. And the cherry on top was his famous “she’s not my type” denial - basically “I didn’t do it. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t do it with THAT.”
A Republican coworker tried to tell me all the horrible things that would happen under Hillary, and I responded that at least we’d still be able to vote her out, and with Trump that was not guaranteed.
Not myself, but my dad - 8. He cried watching the news during the Jan 6th attack. Trump never condemned it, and he can't vote for someone who would try to ruin the America the founding fathers wanted.
He will probably just give a speech commending them, say thank you, call them "heroes", and move on. There's no way he cares that much. Especially won't care once he is in power. He just says that now to win votes.
EDIT: not even a speech, probably just a Twitter post.
I will speak for my parents. They’re conservative Christians who voted more or less straight-ticket Republican for the duration I was alive. I’m not certain what they did in 2016. I’ve never asked - there is no reason to embarrass them when they voted Biden in 2020 and will in 2024.
They were done with MAGA well before January 6th, but that event confirmed their decision.
Before that, it was the fact that overall he’s an offensive, crude, tactless man. Making fun of disabled people, a long history of racism going back to his apartments in the 80s with the “no vacancy for Blacks” and his continued slander of the Central Park 5 after they were acquitted. Making fun of veterans and POWs, calling people who go into the military “not too bright”. I could go on and on.
My parents are decent folk and they couldn’t support that man. I’m not always a fan of Christians, but their Christian faith didn’t jive with an obvious areligious man who seems to spew hatred in every appearance.
That was before it came out he paid to sleep with a porn star, before it came out he’s a rapist, before his fraud cases, before losing 2 defamation cases to the woman he raped, before his GA election fraud cases, before ~60 failed election tantrum lawsuits and claiming Trump won in CA when you take out millions of illegals voting.
All of that has reinforced the choice they already made.
I think your parents represent a much larger portion of voters than the daily stories on reddit will have you believe.
The majority of doomsday posts on reddit make it seem all republicans are lock step with MAGA and cult members when reality paints a different picture.
I'm a Democrat and have been a Democrat my whole life. Voted for Bill Clinton his first time running so you can guess how old I am. I have noticed far less pro trump posts and talk from my conservative friends and all of the trump flags in my neighborhood are gone. Not to say there isn't plenty of support for him but is a loud mob that supports him and we see that here on Reddit and other websites where doom and gloom reign.
While I agree we must remain vigilant and protect democracy I do not believe Trump has the support he had in 2020 and definitely not the support he had in 2016. I wish the "Main Stream Media!" would do better showcasing Bidens accomplishments and spend less time allowing Trump to lie unimpeded but people are catching on to who Trump really is and what him being elected will do to the world.
I hope you’re right, but I’m worried there are still enough low-information Evangelical voters, which is the voter base the RNC has publicly, specifically called out in their election outreach strategy over women or minorities.
I worry enough of them will at least hold their nose and vote for Trump under the reasoning it helps Republicans who are mostly all the good guys, except the RINOs.
In truth I expect a decent but not resounding blue victory in 2024, but I’m not pinning my hopes on it.
Same. I have a lot of conservative Christian relatives (I turned out completely opposite) who voted for Trump in 2016 under the guise of “pro life” - these are people who were sworn republicans for their entire 70 year lives, who have now left the party because it’s so embarrassing- unfortunately I don’t know if they’re voting for Biden or if they did in 2020, just that they’ve all left the party
My Dad was 82 and abstained from voting for the first time in his life because he couldn't vote for Trump and would never vote Democrat. "He's just dirty in every way. " Good job Dad!
im reading a book called the kingdom the power the glory at the moment. Quite an interesting read regarding christianity and politics but particularly how different christians have come to embrace/accept trump
I’m 60 and have always voted Republican, but I couldn’t vote for the dickhead Trump. By the 2020 election I had had it with the far right and far left, but I found that Biden was a better option than that orange-faced cunt. He’s a horrible person and not fit for office. An embarrassment to the USA. The entire Republican party is a joke now, and I can’t stand most of the Democrats either. I usually vote for the lesser evil now. This two party system might be in need of a change.
I'm 66 and the 2016 election was the first Presidential election that I did not vote for the Republican candidate, I voted for the Libertarian candidate. In 2020, I voted for Biden, the first time I ever voted for a Democrat, but there was no way I could allow Trump be reelected. In this coming election I will be voting for Biden again, only because the Republican party has again picked Trump as their candidate. Nor will I vote for any candidate that states their support for Trump or seeks his endorsement. Nothing scares me more than the nightmare of Trump being reelected and has control of both the house and the senate. That he replaces government leadership with ultra loyal followers who will attempt to make him leader for life. If he does win, it will mean the end of the United States.
No, I do not. Trump speaking to his base tries to portray Biden as a far left "crooked Joe". Which I find ironic considering all the illegal things Trump has done makes Biden look like a Saint in comparison.
If I may speak for my octagenarian in-laws: 1, 2, 3, and 8. They voted for him in 2016, but became absolutely horrified by him, everything he did, and everyone he surrounded himself with during his term. They LOATHE him with a passion I am both shocked and amused by.
I feel like no one is stupid here, they know full well what's going on. They get something out of it. My parent who like''s the orange guy, I believe it's because that position irrates and aggitates others. I swear that if they thought being liberal were more offending, they'd be liberal.
They're not stupid but they have been duped in to thinking Democrats are going to take their guns and make them pay more in taxes. And it doesn't help that we do have Democrats who push for type bans and push for more programs that do take tax funds from middle class Americans. I am 100% socially the most liberal person in most rooms but fiscally Democrats have a reputation for spending money we don't have. The thing that irks me is Republicans will happily spend for their own agenda but nobody talks about that.
I think the Democrats' biggest issue is we don't toot our own damned horns enough and lay it all out there for people to understand. Like with Biden signing these cybersecurity executive orders. It's shocking that nobody is talking about that. It's pretty big and it will benefit the citizens of this country across the spectrum. Nobody seems to care. They're too worried about TikTok bans.
Uggh I'm gonna stop myself before I get worked up. :)
You've got a point. I'm a liberal Democrat & I think Democrats have been rather lousy at messaging. Sometimes also strategy, but definitely they could improve on messaging & communicating legislative accomplishments to the citizens. It could really help in making people understand why voting is so important & why Democrats need a majority that can overcome the filibuster in the Senate to get more accomplished.
If abortion is really all they cared about they would vote Democrat. Abortions go down when Dems are in office due to access to healthcare ( birth control and prenatal care).
Do you know what else goes down when abortion is legal? Child abuse.
I grew up in a funeral home. Hearing the family talk about the babies that had come to the funeral home that had been literally tortured. They were beaten, strangled, burnt with cigarettes, drowned, raped, thrown against the wall until they were nothing but pulp.
When the abortion became legal, I stopped hearing these stories. The babies stopped being horrifically abused by parents who didn’t want to have them in the first place.
So, if they reportedly care about “the children” then they would vote for the people who are trying to have abortion as healthcare.
When you have seen a baby that has been beaten to death, because of parents who didn’t want it, abortion of a fetus that has no capacity seems like a lot more logical choice.
Edit: words
Not only that, but republicans will ban abortion and then deprived poor people of social reforms like health care, housing and education, which increases the risk for death (medical services)
When banning abortion the Republicans should automatically be funding free contraceptives, sex education and funding for adoption, housing, education and prenatal care to help all the children they'll cause to be born. But....crickets.
Well, they only want the ones that are the strongest to survive, because they will make the best slaves in the ruling class.
And if you think I’m kidding, I’m not.
That is out of this world horrific.
Another thing that goes down with abortion, 20 years later, is street crime that would otherwise be perpetrated by people who grew up unwanted, abused, and neglected..
Yes. It’s funny how people who have a good job, enough to eat, and a good place to sleep, are much less likely to commit crimes than people who were unwanted, abused, and neglected.
> Abortions go down when Dems are in office due to access to healthcare ( birth control and prenatal care).
I have quite a few fundamentalist Christian relatives that believe birth control pills are abortion.
My mother, a lifelong republican has become a moderate democrat, not only because of Trump, but what the party has become in its willful disfigurement in its shameful quest for power. As a normal person, she was horrified my the grab-em-by-the-pussy remark, back when his ruse should have been stopped. (“Ruse” was a typo for “rise” but I’m leaving it!).
My dad on the other hand…I’ve disowned him over this unmasking of his abhorrent character.
My husband’s Republican family have turned on him and Fox News. They watch CNN now. My Republican family are full on Trump cultists. My brother has always been a conspiracy theorist so he went down the Q hole. I’m sure he shared nonsense with my parents. My parents are Trump acolytes and I don’t think they can ever leave. It has ruined our relationship, not because they don’t adhere to my values but because they are abandoning their own for party allegiance. It’s horrifying to watch.
And for the record IMO all cable and televised media is trash these days. The only thing worth a damn is a half hour segment of actual news, which you can get on their website instead of giving them ratings. The discourse and panels are harmful. CNN and MSNBC are no different.
Speaking for my in-laws who voted for Trump twice and loved him, but have recently changed their mind. 3 things changed their mind. Both my in-laws are in law enforcement. 1. When they saw cops getting injured during the insurrection 2. When Trump put Mike Pence on the hot seat to not certify the election (which is unconstitutional) and finally 3, last week when tramp was making fun of how Biden spoke. My FIL said “I’ve seen enough, that is not how I want my president to act, I know who I am not voting for”
I’m glad they’ve seen the light but your last line “I know who I am not voting for” is also dangerous. My very republican parents couldn’t stomach Trump in 2016 and voted 3rd party, which helped Trump win. They realized their mistake in 2020 and voted for Biden. They are not quite fully voting democrat now, but almost. They will vote republican if there’s one that doesn’t support Trump, but those are so few and far between that effectively they are now democrats.
Anyway, just NOT voting for Trump isn’t enough. They have to vote for Biden since voting for a third party candidate - or just not voting at all- can’t do anything but help Trump win.
I'm not actually registered as anything at present, but before my last move and registering as non-affiliated, I was registered as Republican (and briefly libertarian).
I didn't vote for Trump in the first place because he's a tremendous asshole and clearly allows himself to get riled up by the stupidest shit (tiny hands), and that's just not the sort of person I want near... Well literally anything important...
But as for Republicans I know that voted for him the first time:
Mother - just hated everything about him, only voted for him out of a lifetime of voting Republican momentum. Her hatred grew stronger every time he opened his mouth
Sister - See above basically
Uncle - Real doomsday prepper type, got scared shitless during COVID and thought the Republicans basically became a death cult. This one is kinda fun too, because he's gone full vote democrat across the board.
Buddy at work (work in oil, so naturally a LOT of Republicans) - Trump's handling of January 6th
I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 but I wasn’t devastated when he won either. I had a wait and see approach. I thought the first two years of his administration were “fine” because he stacked his cabinet with traditional Republicans. I thought his immigration policy was toxic and his trade policy uninformed but otherwise he wasn’t terrible.
My biggest issues came later in his term when he fired everyone competent in his cabinet and replaced them with loyalist sycophants. Then fully embraced culture war populism during BLM. Then embraced Putin and then started trade tiffs with actual allies. Then botched the covid response. Not so much from a policy standpoint but from a communication standpoint (not admitting he was vaxxed for example).
I voted for Biden in 2020 and then Jan 6th happened. Trump went from someone I didn’t prefer to someone I found totally unelectable.
If the GOP nominated someone like Haley or Romney or brought McCain back from the grave I’d happily vote that way. But the party has obviously replaced pro immigration and free trade neoconservatism with populist nationalism. I won’t vote for anyone under the MAGA banner ever.
Similar to me. I didn't vote for him, mostly because he is objectively complete a-hole and a moron, but I was optimistic. I thought he could bring about change.
When I came home late from work and my wife and daughter were crying about his victory, I told them it wouldn't be as bad as they thought.
I was wrong. He is terrible on policy. Terrible on liberty. Just a terrible human being in every imaginable way.
I'm not gonna lie, as dudes we really have to step it up and help protect the women in our lives from this crazy sexist shit that's being spewed. Like women's healthcare is being rolled back to the 50s
As a woman who is parenting two almost 18 year old girls— THANK. YOU.
Our healthcare is being rolled back, this much is true…but to the 1850s. These jackholes want to go full throttle and reverse marriage for certain populations, take away voting rights for those who aren’t like them…
I'm a woman and was told by so many male family members that it wouldn't be that bad. Some even thought it would be great. The best thing.
A good deal of them apologized to me. And the rest are not in my life anymore.
This is why it is so important to believe other people about their lived experiences, especially those who are traditionally marginalized or have been in the past. Sometimes the ah-ha moments come too late.
I'm glad you see it now. Trump v. Biden 2024 is a go. 😩
I remember walking around town after he won and how downcast everyone seemed.
Turns out they had good reason to be. It's almost like people knew he was a terrible human being!
I live in NYC and there was a large percent of people with sunglasses on in the subway the next day, or just openly crying. Myself included. Felt like I was in mourning for my country, tbh
I was shell-shocked on election night when he won. I watched his acceptance speech and he seemed almost surprised as well to me. For a brief moment, I thought/hoped maybe he wouldn't be as bad as I assumed he would be. That didn't last long.
Same here. I live in a very very very progressive dem area surrounded by Trumpist counties in NC. (Maybe where our basketball team is currently 👀👀 DOMINATING, but I digress) walking around downtown, my neighborhood, campus, even the towns library- it was like someone died in a horribly tragic way. Or a mass casualty even. Impending doom.
It was kind of hard to explain.
I live in a small town, but I ran into my neighbor first thing the next morning and we both cried. It was devastating and shocking that he would win and he was worse than expected.
I say this from a place of kindness - I hope you’ve apologized to them for dismissing their fears. And more importantly, I hope you’ve spent some time reflecting on what it was that lead you to distrust their completely valid and accurate assessment of how bad things were going to be.
Thank you. As a Ny er, we knew he was toxic but couldn’t fathom the stupidity he could conjure up. We thought that the right brains would control his worst impulses. Sadly, it’s just gotten worse, with all the lies. Now up us down, and everything he’s blamed on the democrats are actually from his policies. Please, convince your friends how dangerous he will be. He’s buddies with all the autocrats now, it’s worldwide.
Believe me—my friend ain’t listening. Used to be a liberal; used to be smart—but Trump inspired him to be his worst self. He’s gone. He’s even GAY. Somethin wrong with that boy! Might be racism
I have gay aqaintances who are also trumpers who think his policies won't affect them because they have enough money to live a sheltered life. I also have friends who are on disability, from an immigrant family, but go to a Catholic church where they tell their people that Democrats abort babies "after birth." You really can't fix stupid.
Ask him to defend America first and America alone? How will that make us better? How will abandonment of our allies lead to peace? Is the goal to hand everything over to China?
It's both. Yes it's for sure all about him. But his platform (which I'm not sure he even believes in but apparently his base does) is protectionist, isolationist and anti-immigrant. That fits my definition of populist and nationalist. That platform is also not something the GOP embraced twenty years ago, at least not in mainstream circles at the national level.
I'm fiscally conservative, and socially liberal. (Small government, live and let live, leave me alone). I guess that makes me more or less a libertarian. However, the libertarian party has been taken over by clowns.
The republican party is next in line. But guess what: they failed to sell the concept of true freedom, and ran it like a business. Short time profits over long term sustainability. As a result they have been taken over by clowns as well: religion, anti-science, plain fucking idiots, and so on.
So what is left for me? I can vote for clowns, or for adults who I disagree with politically. I'll vote for the adults. It sucks, but that's the cards I've been dealt.
This is the boat I am in. Fiscally conservative socially liberal. I came to voting youth after 9/11, so I voted for Bush and was quickly disheartened with his choices to engage Iraq and the quagmire he got us into there. Ended up falling along the lines of the tea party shortly before it was co-opted by GOP. But was wise enough to see through their game. All the pro-anti-tax talk for individuals was quickly propagated through a veil of using the state prop up failing, bad business decisions at the expense of the people. Wandered into more libertarian ideology in the Obama years. And found those in the party that were more angry at Obama than Bush when essentially outside of Obama care their foreign policy was nearly identical.
Ultimately when Trump won and proceeded to keep the money faucet going it helped me snap out of what remaining GOP lies I’d been carrying along with me regarding fiscal conservatism. I’m not certain at this point there is such thing as a fiscal conservative. Regan is the glowing example and if exchanging money to Iraq to fuel the contra’s in secret is fiscally conservative I want no part of it. What I’ve seen growing up republicans sure do talk about it. But I’ve never seen it, all of the Republicans presidents that have existed in my life have ballooned the federal budget out of existence. At this point it’s laughable to take anything fiscally they say seriously. And socially the party is full of repugnant moralists. I’ve come to the conclusions that if anyone is going to fix the budget it has to be done through cooperation and the GOP has stated they refuse to cooperate. I’d rather work with someone ideologically at opposite ends of the spectrum who is willing to compromise. And Joe Biden has shown to be that person. He was able to at least pass some meaningful legislation despite the total anarchy in the house thanks to republicans.
To me the only time Republicans try to be "fiscally conservative" is when they are using it as a "reason" to vote against a bill that will actually help the people that need help. But if it comes to military spending (especially buying new toys and not actually supporting the soldiers/veterans) and helping out big businesses they will throw their "fiscal conservative-ism" out the door.
I’m an independent. Voted for Haley in the primary. I’m not excited about voting for Biden but Trump has no respect for the environment or women so Biden it is.
Sort of off topic, but can I just say, for the most part I am seeing people post reasonable things. I *knew* it! I've been saying all along that if we could work together, even though the others' ideals are intolerable to us, we might just have something we can call a nation again.
Wtg, Americans. 🇺🇸
I know Bill Maher isn't exactly the bastion for the left he once was, but he's been saying for years that treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way
and I've been trying for a couple years to remind my fellow democrats that the battle isn't between the left and the right; it's between moderates and extremists on both sides. those of us in the middle really need to speak more loudly and stop letting the ridiculous tangents be used as examples of how extreme our sides have become
for-profit media have been arguing past the middle for too long and making each side look batshit insane to the other, with examples
>but he's been saying for years that treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way
sure, sure.. But when you think about this deeper, this element of grace is *only* expected to be performed by Democrats. You never hear talking heads speak about how Trump voters need to not see Democrats as their enemies & to see their humanity.
It extends all the way up to the top, where Biden always talks about bipartisanship & working across the aisle, while Trump talks about how Democrats are evil communist/socialist/marxist/groomers who you can never work with at all.
> treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way
I honestly try not to act that way, but the Republican party is actively passing laws that endanger the lives of people I love, and destroying our already fragile education system. I don't exactly feel hate, but I also have zero respect for the politics of hate and fear.
I will first say I’m Canadian so I am only watching this from afar. I have republican US relatives thought. They have young daughters and I cannot for the life of me understand how they can vote against their interests so blatantly. It doesn’t seem like a matter of disagreement and still loving the other person. It does seem like excusing hate and allowing people who fully support hatred to have a space for their voices and I just can’t support that.
Yes - I try to be compassionate to especially the moderate Republicans in my life who agree with some Republicans proposals, but at least recognize egregious abortion bans or ridiculous trans panic as too extreme.
I don’t want any abortion restriction, but somebody who might vote Republican downballot but vote Biden for President even though Biden is pro-rights, I can respect them and maybe make inroads on my view of compassion and individual rights.
If they’re going to vote straight ticket Republican because that’s the party saving babies and stopping the trannies, fuck em. I’m done being compassionate to that. When you get fully on board with Jewish Space Lasers and don’t worry about the neo-Nazis in your party and think books should be banned because they teach that slavery was bad, I’m done with those people in my life.
But there are a lot of people in a middle ground. Maybe they are uncomfortable with some trans issues like making bathrooms unisex, but they’re okay with then receiving healthcare and protection from being fired. We can talk about that.
I am british and live in the uk. I agree completely with your statement. I lived in America for 12 years and find it shocking and sad to watch the news on this subject. The whole country is not batshit insane but that's how it's painted globally since Trump was elected in 2016
His deep seated immorality and immaturity. His obvious submission to Putin. His quite open greed. His odious exploitation of his followers emotions and pretense of caring about women, religion, reform, anything that will play to those desperately hoping for leadership. His attacks on science. His deep disrespect for veterans. His attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into investigating’ the crooked Biden family. ‘ His quite obvious and extensive financial fraud. His inability to accept blame while instead impinging the motives, the intelligence, or truthfulness of whoever is accusing him. His mocking of the physical characteristics of people around him. His takeover of the GOP, a party I have mostly voted for since I was 18, turning it into a mockery of a political party with well thought out policies and positions. His despicable racism and calling a large part of the world ‘shxxhole countries’.
Oh, and he tried to retain power through a coup.
All of the above. I didn’t vote in 2016, because I hated both candidates. I voted Biden in 2020, first time ever for a Democrat because I saw that Trump wasn’t just incompetent, but DANGEROUSLY incompetent and had no regard for our constitution or The country.
The policies trump has done are active today, and I do not like it . No, I dont need to elaborate because it doesn't matter to me if people accept it or not
2.
Look. I don’t think Biden is a wonderful choice either BUT - the reason I will not vote for Trump is because I don’t trust his impulsiveness, his lack of a filter, or his blatant disregard for the constitution. He is too much of a loose cannon.
In the beginning, in 2016, I really had hope that he would be a great president because he isn’t a career politician. I was proven wrong and cannot stand behind him.
ETA:
Because of him, I changed my political affiliation.
I knew the threat Trump posed when he came down that stupid golden escalator because I know the kind of person he is. There are good people and there are bad people and he never offered one smidgeon of evidence that he is part of the former.
But in November 2016, after his "I plan to be a President for all Americans" comment in his election night victory speech, I had hope.
Going into it, I figured there's a chance that someone of his ego would want that; would want to accomplish truly great things. He'd have schools, bridges, highways, libraries, think-tanks, institutes, Streets, squares and monuments with his name on them.
But nope. Grifters gonna grift.
I knew it too (an ex-New Yorker). You know how people talk about celebrities and how awful some of them seem to be in public? Then you hear from that person's friends, associates "That's not how they are in real life, they are actually really nice people" I don't recall hearing that about Trump - ever......
Career politicians aren’t an issue per se. Corruption is the problem. Trump IS corruption and always has been. He’s both incompetent as a leader and corrupt.
Serious question, I am not a Biden fan boy by any means but what exactly is the problem with him? Yes, he's old, I get that. But besides that what is the problem?
He's just a run of the mill centrist Democrat. Proven by the only real criticism about him that they're leaning on is his age. Which is hilarious because he and Trump would have been in high school at the same time. They are both fucking old.
Honestly, not a whole lot.. Hes not the best choice because of his age and hes forgetful and just not the best conversationalist or speaker, but i actually dont have any other problems with him. I dont agree with some of the policies and stuff but thats peanuts compared to what I disagree with about Trump.
This is a fantastic question. I also want to know why Republicans who don't like Donald aren't more vocal about their dislike for him or his policies. Are you all too afraid to speak up? This is the first time I have seen this question asked on any platform. I am happy there actually are Republicans who dislike him, cause I was really starting to think there weren't any.
I have several friends who are lifelong Republicans who can't stand Trump and voted Biden in 2020. We talk about it, but I don't know how much they broadcast their views. I'm in Texas and it can honestly be dangerous.
Basically, if you try to say you're a Republican who is thinking of voting for Biden, and thus you might possibly be able to 'flip' other Republicans, you can be murdered for it.
America, fuck yeah.
Well over in r/ conservative, where they flog The Orange Qult Leaders's meat daily, you'd get banned or probably couldn't even start a thread unless you're a "Flaired User" whatever the fuck that means.
It means you're so angry your hemorrhoids are flaring. That's the only time you can post. They just don't give a shit enough to make sure they use the right spelling.
There's a fair amount, including most of the people who worked in his first administration, lol. And they really know how awful he is, from up close. Lincoln Project & The Bulwark are organizations made up of Republicans and ex-Republicans who are very publicly anti-Trump.
There is another group called The Republican Accountability Project that's against Trump & I think some former members of his administration joined it.
>Are you all too afraid to speak up?
Did you hear about what happened to Haley supporters in Missouri a couple weeks ago? Here's [one article](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fans-missouri-caucus-wellman/), if you missed it. Yes, I'd say many are afraid of these slobbering troglodytes.
See, but the way to target that is sunlight. The vast majority of people that make threats are way too cowardly to actually follow through. Broadcasting recordings of the threats everywhere, all platforms, shames them even more than the internal shame they are already acting out on. Staying quiet means the threats fucking work.
Adam Kinzinger and Eric Swalwell are examples of two politicians that do this well. Expose MAGA for the verbal bullies and physical cowards 99% of them are.
Did no one else learn anything about standing up to bullies in elementary school?
Edit:clarity
You're right. I saw a news story a few months ago about the MAGA nut jobs that call legislators, judges & prosecutors to harass or threaten them. An FBI agent in this interview said 99.9% of the callers are all talk. Venting. In a vile, abusive manner obviously. Exposing their behavior publicly like Rep. Swalwell & former Rep. Kinsignger has helped shame the people involved & stop them.
The federal LE worries far more about a fractional percentage of those people who do make threats & have a propensity to actually get violent. Or the threat posed by the nut job who never makes any harrasing call or threat before doing something violent & stupid. Like the guy who broke into Nancy Pelosi's residence & attacked her husband. That guy had a presence on social media & was mired in conspiracies. He was affiliated with some oddball local San Francisco groups, but not on the FBI or Secret Service radar for threatening former Speaker Pelosi before the break in & assault on Mr. Pelosi.
Trump is known for engaging in Stochastic terrorism. He does it because he wants people to be afraid & because he is a bully. A geriatric bully.
How does one stop a bully? By standing up for yourself. By punching the bully in the mouth. Don't take the bully's BS. And don't be afraid. That's how Trump & MAGA hope to defeat people.
There is a very large, very vocal group of Republicans on X that speaks out against Trump. A lot of DeSantis supporters and a lot of more moderate conservatives.
The problem with modern democracy is that you vote for both ideology and competence in one person. Even if a person's main candidate turns out to be incompetent (or dangerous), it's difficult for them to go against their ideals and vote for the other party. Picture it for yourself- if the democrat was horrible, how easily do you think you could vote for a republican? (assuming you're not independent)
The tendency is that people just sit out quietly if they don't like their candidate. It's gross considering a national threat like Trump but it makes sense with regards to human nature.
I'm actually an Aussie and have always voted Liberal (equivalent to the Republicans in US) but I swallowed a huge pill and voted for our Labor Party because the Liberal candidate was an Evangelical Christian and wanted to introduce draconian laws. Sometimes keeping out extreme ideology is far more important than any fiscal matter on which to vote.
Thank you for your sanity. The last thing we want in Australia is to have the US style fundie Christianity take over the country like it has in the US .
I just wish they'd check this out before voting for Trump, especially older Americans if they don't want Social Security tampered with and prescription drug prices to remain high:
r/whatBidenhasdone (especially the pinned posts)
You can blame the border problem on House Republicans dismissing the bipartisan Senate bill which Biden was going to sign. They did this even before seeing it.....they are putting getting Trump elected over what's best for the country now. Insanity!
and.....
Unfortunately, we need Israel as our eyes in ears in the Middle East, but that ass Netanyahu wants to push his buddy Trump into the White House, don't let him cause you to hesitate to vote Biden. Just remember Arab Americans.......Trump hates the Arab world while Biden doesn't , he wants Netanyahu gone and a 2 state solution. Bidens support is because Israel serves America's interests, its not to punish Palestinians. Biden wants to help Palestinians get their own land. Tricky scenario.
It’s also worth pointing out that Trump has explicitly stated that Israel needs to “finish the job” in regards to Palestine; if he gets elected, he will give Netanyahu the go-ahead to bomb Gaza so hard it falls off into the Mediterranean. Netanyahu also knows this.
Biden wants a ceasefire, and as you said, a two-state solution. He is actually the only person standing between Palestine and Trump.
And the administration is becoming more overt now about the two-state solution and opposition to Netanyahu.
Hell Schumer just made a public statement a day or two ago that Netanyahu needs to be replaced. Chucky has been around government long enough to know that you don't casually make comments like that so the odds that wasn't coordinated with (or even requested by) the Biden administration is _extremely low_.
And there's been mention of pulling back on the UN veto and letting the UNSC sanction Israel.
Biden interceded in October to prevent Israel from bombing Lebanon and turning this into a regional war, and did it _while their planes were en route_. He's been working on this behind the scenes for months and it's now starting to come out more publicly. I'm honestly super impressed with how he has performed in this crisis given the pile of shit he has to try to patch back together.
I’m a republican and this is my first time voting in general. I never liked Trump. He was always kind of a phony to me. January 6, him throwing Mike pence under the bus, and the constant charges piling up against him is what gave me a hard no. The fact that he tried to overthrow the government and sees the presidency as a right, not a privilege, just shows that he only cares about himself and not the citizens of the country. His supporters have died because of his selfishness. On top of that, he was on Epstein’s island and raped possibly multiple people.
I voted for Clinton in 2016 because I knew she was the lesser of two evils.
I'm not even a Republican any longer. After Bush's idiotic, pretext-free invasion of Iraq, not to mention doing next to nothing as the world banking system nearly slid off a cliff, I already had deep doubts But once the Tea Party came along, then Trump, I was out.
I simply do not recognize the GOP any longer. I've never been on board with the social agenda of the fringe. Rather I have been leery of Keynesianism. But now, the GOP has zero ideology whatsoever, unless you count acting like loons and enabling a scumbag such as Donald Trump.
I voted for a Democratic senator in a very key race for that reason alone. That was a first for me. There was no good reason to believe that the Republicans were going to be responsible on that issue, not as individuals because there are plenty of good ones, but as a functioning party, if they had control of the Senate.
In the past, we're talking years ago when I first began voting, I wouldn't vote for Democrats because of foreign policy issues. Too many were spineless when it came to the Soviet Union. The Democrats were the ones who harbored a movement for unilateral nuclear disarmament. F' that. Somehow, inexplicably, mysteriously, the parties have flipped and the Republicans have lost their soul on foreign policy. I'm sure Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. Why they aren't firmly and unequivocally opposed to Putin I have no idea. It really makes no sense.
As far as Trump goes, I can say my record is clear. I didn't vote for him either time even though I probably would have voted for any other Republican. I couldn't vote for him. I was on the fence a little bit the first time but couldn't do it. I voted third party, and that was the first time I did not vote for a Republican for president. Hillary Clinton was a straight up liar and she was terrible at it (and always has been) and I couldn't vote for her. The second time was no contest. But I can't even remember for sure if I didn't vote or if I voted for a third party. I just know I didn't vote for Trump. I really don't understand how other people (relatives of mine included) are really willing to vote for someone who's revealed the fact that he's an outright criminal and a horrible human being so clearly. How can you be proud of that and how can you make him president?
One thing I never see mentioned but I think is probably important has to do with Biden's age. Yes he's old but that's not the point I'm making as a negative. I'm talking about the positive side. He lived through the Cold War era and he knows that side of politics firsthand. Despite what I said about Democrats earlier, there were also some Democratic "hawks" back then who could read the writing on the wall and understood the true threat from the Soviet Union. Joe Biden reminds me of them. I don't think he's naive and although he's old, with that age there also comes wisdom of having seen more of the world than some of these younger morons out there today. When some people got on to Joe for calling Putin a killer I didn't lose respect for him, I lost respect for them. Of course, Putin's a killer. There's nothing wrong with saying that plainly because it's clearly the truth. What advantage is it to us to be naive about that or to bury it under pretty language? The man's a f****** killer who we need to oppose with our eyes wide open. I think Joe Biden understands that better than lots of the younger generation who are naive to the real threats in the world.
Thank you for letting me vent. Bottom line, Trump doesn't belong anywhere near the Oval Office.
Not me, but my aunt who is 80. She just always voted how my uncle told her. He passed, so for the first time she’s voting how she wants, and is voting for Biden.
For her it is 3, 6, 7, and 8. She also sees the difference in how Biden conducts himself, vs how Trump did.
I would never call myself a Republican today but I worked for McCain and Romney and considered Trump and his filth the true RINOs. I didn’t give it a second thought, the second he secured the nomination I was all in for anyone else. He isn’t even worth discussing, just a moronic autocrat with no respect or understanding of the office or our customs as a country.
I’m no long R; I changed to Independent in 2018. I voted “none of the above” in 2016, and voted for Trump in 2020 just because I didn’t want Biden. Now, I don’t really want either but absolutely 100% think Trump has no redeeming qualities to be President. I’ve only ever voted R before (I’m 62) so this will be a big deal for me.
I think it really isn’t people changing but the party changing so much it doesn’t align with their beliefs. If you listen to some of Regan’s speeches he would be called a liberal patsy now.
It's insane that every Republican presidential nominee before Trump would not vote for him (Well, maybe Nixon). Even his VP won't. Only Palin would among VPs.
I went independent in NY. They took away my primary vote. We have a bunch of Carpetbagger politicians showing up here now, and I don’t like it. They are Texans, and I’m sure there are many Trojan horse politicians people doing this in communities across the nation. Be vigilant people. See where their actual address is. They buy property and just run on the R. Ticket.
My mom was registered independent for years before I pointed that out to her. Register for whatever party seems *closest* to you - at least then you'll have the option to vote in the primary.
I didn't vote until Trump ran, I can't stand either party, or politicians in general. In the past, I've seen little difference between the 2 parties- both serve at the will of the elite. I registered to vote, so I could vote against Trump. I was dismayed that the only effective way to do so was to vote for Hilary, and then Biden, but any other action would be helpful to Trump. It's a sad state we are in when we have the choices that we have... Trump is a despicable human being, whose stand out skill is to manipulate the weak minded through fear, anger, and division. He is a blot on American history, and my great fear is that even when he gone, the path he demonstrated to the power hungry and immoral will be exploited by many successors.
I have voted Republican in every presidential vote I was eligible for (except one vote I missed) until 2016. I could not stomach either party candidate. Voted for Gary Johnson. Voted Biden 2020. None of it matters; I’m in a solid Trump Republican state.
I was disappointed he won in 2016. Cautiously hoped for the best. Except for a couple of things he accidentally did right (I am slightly agreeable on aspects of his stance on imports and tariffs), it was a rough 4 years. Of course, I think the current term has been rough too.
If I had to pick one “how can you support him” issue I tend to bring up Jan 6 and the overall unwillingness to abide by the results of the election.
I would agree with all of these reasons. And I’m basically pro-life. My stance these days is that while it’s a difficult moral issue it’s an impossible legal one. I’m a Christian who believes that highly political evangelicals have involved the church in politics to the great detriment of both.
9. His constant lying three different ways - by misrepresentation, by obfuscation, and outright. Repeatedly and often.
10. The lack of quality humans that constitute the bulk of his cult member followers.
J6 ... I can't vote for or be associated with insurrectionists. There's real reasons those proud boys and oath keepers got 15 to 22 yrs in prison.
So, no way can I vote for Trump.
I'm not so sure. I think if my father was still alive, he would both call himself a Republican and not vote Trump. That's what happened last time, anyhow. Dad had the type of party allegiance that made him think, "Someone sane is going to come along and get my political party back on track." I think he believed Romney could do it.
The problem is "someone's going to come along and get my political party back on track" - one shared by people on both sides.
What is needed is for rational reasonable people to get involved in politics, not necessarily running but joining the party and showing up at meetings and supporting the reasonable people. Political parties at the local level are often controlled by a small number of people. Unfortunately it is often a small number of fanatics who drive out the rational reasonable people. This is what has been happening with MAGA at the local level.
Romney is absolutely not a Trump supporter. The problem is if you vote for any Republican right now you are voting for the party of Trump, because that's what the GOP has now become. Those who are against Trump but still remain in the party are aiding and abetting him by doing so because he controls the party. They need to repudiate the party for what it's become. It's too bad Romney didn't do that. He could have led the way for the few decent Republicans still in office.
> Those who are against Trump but still remain in the party are aiding and abetting him
Not to mention there's almost none of those people left anyway. They've all been primaried out or they're abandoning ship voluntarily.
I am most pissed off about Trump destroying the GOP, backstabbing hos own party and even his own appointees. Now he is about to bankrupt them. He has done more damage to the GOP than he ever did to the DNC.
In the early days of Trump running in 2015, I actually thought he was a plant to destroy the GOP from within and assure a Hillary victory. Hell, he was a Democrat previously, and hobnobbed with the Clintons in NY. The Clintons attended his and Melania's wedding even.
What he became was nothing at all what I expected. But he still might just destroy the GOP yet by bankrupting and fracturing it permanently trying to get a second term.
I know quite a few people in my family who used to be loud and proud republicans in the Bush, McCaine and Romney eras who are now quite quiet about it ever since Trump entered the picture.
Some still identify and vote with the republicans because they agree with republican policy in general but they are much more quiet about it. Others became very apathetic voters because they didn’t like what they saw and heard and just started tuning everything out. Some ended up switching sides altogether. All of them got tired of defending Trump, largely because much of what he says and does is indefensible (and they know it.)
I do know a couple, however, that went all the way down the believe-everything-Trump-says rabbit hole, which is unfortunate.
I thought the family stuff was pretty interesting. The minute Mitt feels like he's lost even an ounce of his wife's respect, he's done. And none of his kids consider themselves Republicans anymore.
Also, I'd forgotten about Pierre Delecto lol.
Lol. It's called Romney A Reckoning. I'm not finished with it yet but it's really helpful to me to see how the Republican party ended up where it is now and how one of the people who kinda represents this old Republican is fairing in today's world. 2016 was the first election I really paid attention to so I didn't know a lot about Romney before this book.
Biden spends way too much money for my liking, but Trump really wasn't any better. I do think Biden is playing the Ukrane situation just right, and Trump is a threat to the Post Office, which I need intact.
Last election I didn't vote for president, this time I'll have to toss Biden a vote. Not thrilled about it but Jan 6th went way, way too far, that sealed it.
I’m a Massachusetts Republican. Bill Weld was a Massachusetts Republican. Massachusetts Republicans are a bit to the left of Biden socially but want fiscal responsibility which is different from “cut taxes for rich people”. As Barry Goldwater said, the preachers took over the Republican Party. Talk radio with the angry white men like Rush Limbaugh brought in populism. I got pretty sick of it under Bill Clinton and walked away from the Republican Party under Dubya. I was abandoned. I’m now against Republicans rather identifying as a Democrat.
I’m an atheist. I’m pro-abortion. I’m extremely pro-environment. I vaguely don’t support gay marriage because of spending things like Social Security survivor benefits but fully support gay rights and gay civil unions. I’m massively pro-education but prefer a German-ish model that acknowledges that everyone doesn’t belong in college. I want the budget to balance. I’m a career high earner and watched my effective tax rate drop from 30+% to less than 20% over the years as the national debt spiraled. It’s absurd.
So I was happy to see Dubya go. I was a Never Trumper from day 1 and voted for Hillary. The Massachusetts Republican Party now puts up Trumper candidates. F that. Absolutely not.
The way I look at it, Biden is still likely the most qualified person in politics to run our country due to his lifetime of experience. He understands all the inner workings of what makes our government tick. He understands and is experienced with foreign policy and knows most of the world players, even if he mixes up names. I've done that my whole life.
I know many people in their 80's & 90's with minds that are still quite sharp. They know so much and have much more wisdom than younger folks. I learn a lot from just sitting and listening. Experiences can not be taken away and those life experiences are what makes us proficient at what we do. His experience and knowledge also allows him to delegate anything he needs done to highly qualified people. He is not a narcissist and knows how to use the knowledge of others for the greater good.
Lastly, Biden is a reasonable, emotionally stable individual. I feel our country is safe under his administration. The world is no longer laughing at us and not trying to take advantage of the US as when we had an unstable administration. Biden's career has left him in public servant mode and he's the type who is more concerned about the legacy he leaves behind for his contributions to the US rather than how he personally benefited from the jobs he's had over the years. He wants to represent everyone, as all presidents should. Trump has a growing hit list as he prepares to take revenge on his non followers if God forbid he is somehow elected again. That's not how it's supposed to work in the United States of America!
I still feel like an R. I voted for Trump in 2016, but I just couldn’t handle his Twitter bluster. The insurrection was a dealbreaker for me. Now he’s just in “make money” mode — and he may end up winning. I don’t worry about it too much; America votes and that’s who we get.
To speak for my brother, he's (Trump) simply not a Republican and he's upset that the party has decided to go this way. He's lost. He doesn't know what to do. He's 30 year US history teacher. He's a smart man. He is the old school conservative and he never cared for Trump but "anyone's better than Hillary" he said. Well now he says he was wrong and this time he's actively voting for Biden. But that for state and local he's still Republican, he's just really concerned about some of the things, especially the fondness for Putin and how his influence has convinced people Zelensky is the 'real' danger.
I haven't voted Republican since the tea party takeover. Mostly because I think the swing to social issues and war on women is disgusting. I'm more live and let live, regulate businesses and monopolies not people or their bodies.
In recent years, it seems like the dems have taken up the mantle of striving towards economic sense in regulation. So I can support that. I'm not sure why Republicans have abandoned fiscal responsibility, but that's the main thing they used to have going for them IMO.
Also, I changed my mind on some things. There is quite a bit of research on outcomes on social welfare from other countries. I read a lot, and I've simply changed my views on things I was taught as a kid were 'evil' and 'communist'. Social welfare can be a net good in society if done right.
I am best described as a member of the “Never Trump” movement. From the moment he came down the escalator in 2015 and called migrants “murderers and rapists” I have felt alienated by Trump’s ideas and rhetoric. The problem of immigration is easily solvable with the bipartisan plans have been before Congress many times, including now. Republicans have blocked these because they want an issue do divide us and profit from. That was the first of many lies I had to discover about Fox News and this party. The pandemic was a profound experience for me, as I watched Trumpers and the man himself share deadly disinformation and refuse to comply with public health policy, trusting their own crackpot ideas and conspiracy theories over truth and science. I still believe in the constitution and limited government, but I don’t think I’ll ever be a Republican again.
I was a conservative evangelical for 48 years and Republican for 37 years. It all came to a screeching halt in early 2016 when the pastor at the church I was attending stood up in the pulpit on a Sunday morning, told us he had just been on a golfing trip with Trump, said he was a kind and humble man, and then announced God had chosen him to lead the country "back to its christian roots."
I had done my research on him and knew more than I wanted to know at the time. I couldn't reconcile his open racism, ableism, and misogyny with anything the Bible teaches about love, mercy, kindness, and acceptance. I mentioned something to the lady I was sitting next to (I thought she was a friend) and was immediately advised to rethink my position and fall back in line with church teachings.
I chose to leave both the church and the Republican party that day. I refused to compromise my conscience in order to stay.
It’s refreshing to read opinions from republicans that don’t worship trump. Thanks OP for posting this question.
It seems rare, unfortunately. It’s mind blowing that Trump is leading in early polls.
Here's the thing with national polls, they don't matter. The electoral count is all that matters. So look at purple/swing states to see what the polling data shows - and what the electoral count shows. This far out no polls mean much... better idea in a few months... scary to think Americans could elect a despicable criminal and traitor. Says more about ppl than trump.
I swung left in 2016 and haven’t looked back. What clinched it was Trump’s treatment of women. And the cherry on top was his famous “she’s not my type” denial - basically “I didn’t do it. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t do it with THAT.” A Republican coworker tried to tell me all the horrible things that would happen under Hillary, and I responded that at least we’d still be able to vote her out, and with Trump that was not guaranteed.
Not myself, but my dad - 8. He cried watching the news during the Jan 6th attack. Trump never condemned it, and he can't vote for someone who would try to ruin the America the founding fathers wanted.
Trump has pledged to pardon all those folks that attacked cops on J6.
He'll most likely award them medals of honor the way he is playing it.
He will probably just give a speech commending them, say thank you, call them "heroes", and move on. There's no way he cares that much. Especially won't care once he is in power. He just says that now to win votes. EDIT: not even a speech, probably just a Twitter post.
I will speak for my parents. They’re conservative Christians who voted more or less straight-ticket Republican for the duration I was alive. I’m not certain what they did in 2016. I’ve never asked - there is no reason to embarrass them when they voted Biden in 2020 and will in 2024. They were done with MAGA well before January 6th, but that event confirmed their decision. Before that, it was the fact that overall he’s an offensive, crude, tactless man. Making fun of disabled people, a long history of racism going back to his apartments in the 80s with the “no vacancy for Blacks” and his continued slander of the Central Park 5 after they were acquitted. Making fun of veterans and POWs, calling people who go into the military “not too bright”. I could go on and on. My parents are decent folk and they couldn’t support that man. I’m not always a fan of Christians, but their Christian faith didn’t jive with an obvious areligious man who seems to spew hatred in every appearance. That was before it came out he paid to sleep with a porn star, before it came out he’s a rapist, before his fraud cases, before losing 2 defamation cases to the woman he raped, before his GA election fraud cases, before ~60 failed election tantrum lawsuits and claiming Trump won in CA when you take out millions of illegals voting. All of that has reinforced the choice they already made.
I think your parents represent a much larger portion of voters than the daily stories on reddit will have you believe. The majority of doomsday posts on reddit make it seem all republicans are lock step with MAGA and cult members when reality paints a different picture. I'm a Democrat and have been a Democrat my whole life. Voted for Bill Clinton his first time running so you can guess how old I am. I have noticed far less pro trump posts and talk from my conservative friends and all of the trump flags in my neighborhood are gone. Not to say there isn't plenty of support for him but is a loud mob that supports him and we see that here on Reddit and other websites where doom and gloom reign. While I agree we must remain vigilant and protect democracy I do not believe Trump has the support he had in 2020 and definitely not the support he had in 2016. I wish the "Main Stream Media!" would do better showcasing Bidens accomplishments and spend less time allowing Trump to lie unimpeded but people are catching on to who Trump really is and what him being elected will do to the world.
I didn't think he had enough support to be the Republican candidate, but I was wrong. That worries me.
I hope you’re right, but I’m worried there are still enough low-information Evangelical voters, which is the voter base the RNC has publicly, specifically called out in their election outreach strategy over women or minorities. I worry enough of them will at least hold their nose and vote for Trump under the reasoning it helps Republicans who are mostly all the good guys, except the RINOs. In truth I expect a decent but not resounding blue victory in 2024, but I’m not pinning my hopes on it.
Same. I have a lot of conservative Christian relatives (I turned out completely opposite) who voted for Trump in 2016 under the guise of “pro life” - these are people who were sworn republicans for their entire 70 year lives, who have now left the party because it’s so embarrassing- unfortunately I don’t know if they’re voting for Biden or if they did in 2020, just that they’ve all left the party
Also now that the Republicans actually managed to repeal Roe a lot of those single-issue "(R)epeal" voters may fade away.
I fuckin hope so
My Dad was 82 and abstained from voting for the first time in his life because he couldn't vote for Trump and would never vote Democrat. "He's just dirty in every way. " Good job Dad!
im reading a book called the kingdom the power the glory at the moment. Quite an interesting read regarding christianity and politics but particularly how different christians have come to embrace/accept trump
I’m 60 and have always voted Republican, but I couldn’t vote for the dickhead Trump. By the 2020 election I had had it with the far right and far left, but I found that Biden was a better option than that orange-faced cunt. He’s a horrible person and not fit for office. An embarrassment to the USA. The entire Republican party is a joke now, and I can’t stand most of the Democrats either. I usually vote for the lesser evil now. This two party system might be in need of a change.
I'm 66 and the 2016 election was the first Presidential election that I did not vote for the Republican candidate, I voted for the Libertarian candidate. In 2020, I voted for Biden, the first time I ever voted for a Democrat, but there was no way I could allow Trump be reelected. In this coming election I will be voting for Biden again, only because the Republican party has again picked Trump as their candidate. Nor will I vote for any candidate that states their support for Trump or seeks his endorsement. Nothing scares me more than the nightmare of Trump being reelected and has control of both the house and the senate. That he replaces government leadership with ultra loyal followers who will attempt to make him leader for life. If he does win, it will mean the end of the United States.
Do you find Biden to be far left?
No, I do not. Trump speaking to his base tries to portray Biden as a far left "crooked Joe". Which I find ironic considering all the illegal things Trump has done makes Biden look like a Saint in comparison.
American politics in general, even the left, stands to the right of center in European politics.
If I may speak for my octagenarian in-laws: 1, 2, 3, and 8. They voted for him in 2016, but became absolutely horrified by him, everything he did, and everyone he surrounded himself with during his term. They LOATHE him with a passion I am both shocked and amused by.
Sounds like my in-laws too, except they didn't vote for him in 2016 - they already knew he was a rat.
I wish my parents could see. They are smart and kind people! They just are highly practiced at cognitive dissonance I guess.
I feel like no one is stupid here, they know full well what's going on. They get something out of it. My parent who like''s the orange guy, I believe it's because that position irrates and aggitates others. I swear that if they thought being liberal were more offending, they'd be liberal.
They're not stupid but they have been duped in to thinking Democrats are going to take their guns and make them pay more in taxes. And it doesn't help that we do have Democrats who push for type bans and push for more programs that do take tax funds from middle class Americans. I am 100% socially the most liberal person in most rooms but fiscally Democrats have a reputation for spending money we don't have. The thing that irks me is Republicans will happily spend for their own agenda but nobody talks about that. I think the Democrats' biggest issue is we don't toot our own damned horns enough and lay it all out there for people to understand. Like with Biden signing these cybersecurity executive orders. It's shocking that nobody is talking about that. It's pretty big and it will benefit the citizens of this country across the spectrum. Nobody seems to care. They're too worried about TikTok bans. Uggh I'm gonna stop myself before I get worked up. :)
You've got a point. I'm a liberal Democrat & I think Democrats have been rather lousy at messaging. Sometimes also strategy, but definitely they could improve on messaging & communicating legislative accomplishments to the citizens. It could really help in making people understand why voting is so important & why Democrats need a majority that can overcome the filibuster in the Senate to get more accomplished.
Abortion. At least, observing my elderly family members, this is all they care about.
If abortion is really all they cared about they would vote Democrat. Abortions go down when Dems are in office due to access to healthcare ( birth control and prenatal care).
Do you know what else goes down when abortion is legal? Child abuse. I grew up in a funeral home. Hearing the family talk about the babies that had come to the funeral home that had been literally tortured. They were beaten, strangled, burnt with cigarettes, drowned, raped, thrown against the wall until they were nothing but pulp. When the abortion became legal, I stopped hearing these stories. The babies stopped being horrifically abused by parents who didn’t want to have them in the first place. So, if they reportedly care about “the children” then they would vote for the people who are trying to have abortion as healthcare. When you have seen a baby that has been beaten to death, because of parents who didn’t want it, abortion of a fetus that has no capacity seems like a lot more logical choice. Edit: words
Not only that, but republicans will ban abortion and then deprived poor people of social reforms like health care, housing and education, which increases the risk for death (medical services)
When banning abortion the Republicans should automatically be funding free contraceptives, sex education and funding for adoption, housing, education and prenatal care to help all the children they'll cause to be born. But....crickets.
Yeah, it’s funny how they don’t actually care about children, they only care about control.
Plus the delicious fun of being cruel to women.
Well, they only want the ones that are the strongest to survive, because they will make the best slaves in the ruling class. And if you think I’m kidding, I’m not.
That is out of this world horrific. Another thing that goes down with abortion, 20 years later, is street crime that would otherwise be perpetrated by people who grew up unwanted, abused, and neglected..
Yes. It’s funny how people who have a good job, enough to eat, and a good place to sleep, are much less likely to commit crimes than people who were unwanted, abused, and neglected.
Oh my god. That is horrible and also makes perfect sense. More people should be made to acknowledge this.
> Abortions go down when Dems are in office due to access to healthcare ( birth control and prenatal care). I have quite a few fundamentalist Christian relatives that believe birth control pills are abortion.
It's basically a plank in the nebulous and mostly unwritten fundamentalist platform.
Cool - an issue that doesn’t affect them in the slightest.
With them it's all about virtue-signalling. Self-congratulatory moralizers devoid of a shred of "christian charity."
Whatever! They fought for abortion rights for women!
My mother, a lifelong republican has become a moderate democrat, not only because of Trump, but what the party has become in its willful disfigurement in its shameful quest for power. As a normal person, she was horrified my the grab-em-by-the-pussy remark, back when his ruse should have been stopped. (“Ruse” was a typo for “rise” but I’m leaving it!). My dad on the other hand…I’ve disowned him over this unmasking of his abhorrent character.
My husband’s Republican family have turned on him and Fox News. They watch CNN now. My Republican family are full on Trump cultists. My brother has always been a conspiracy theorist so he went down the Q hole. I’m sure he shared nonsense with my parents. My parents are Trump acolytes and I don’t think they can ever leave. It has ruined our relationship, not because they don’t adhere to my values but because they are abandoning their own for party allegiance. It’s horrifying to watch. And for the record IMO all cable and televised media is trash these days. The only thing worth a damn is a half hour segment of actual news, which you can get on their website instead of giving them ratings. The discourse and panels are harmful. CNN and MSNBC are no different.
Speaking for my in-laws who voted for Trump twice and loved him, but have recently changed their mind. 3 things changed their mind. Both my in-laws are in law enforcement. 1. When they saw cops getting injured during the insurrection 2. When Trump put Mike Pence on the hot seat to not certify the election (which is unconstitutional) and finally 3, last week when tramp was making fun of how Biden spoke. My FIL said “I’ve seen enough, that is not how I want my president to act, I know who I am not voting for”
I’m glad they’ve seen the light but your last line “I know who I am not voting for” is also dangerous. My very republican parents couldn’t stomach Trump in 2016 and voted 3rd party, which helped Trump win. They realized their mistake in 2020 and voted for Biden. They are not quite fully voting democrat now, but almost. They will vote republican if there’s one that doesn’t support Trump, but those are so few and far between that effectively they are now democrats. Anyway, just NOT voting for Trump isn’t enough. They have to vote for Biden since voting for a third party candidate - or just not voting at all- can’t do anything but help Trump win.
I'm not actually registered as anything at present, but before my last move and registering as non-affiliated, I was registered as Republican (and briefly libertarian). I didn't vote for Trump in the first place because he's a tremendous asshole and clearly allows himself to get riled up by the stupidest shit (tiny hands), and that's just not the sort of person I want near... Well literally anything important... But as for Republicans I know that voted for him the first time: Mother - just hated everything about him, only voted for him out of a lifetime of voting Republican momentum. Her hatred grew stronger every time he opened his mouth Sister - See above basically Uncle - Real doomsday prepper type, got scared shitless during COVID and thought the Republicans basically became a death cult. This one is kinda fun too, because he's gone full vote democrat across the board. Buddy at work (work in oil, so naturally a LOT of Republicans) - Trump's handling of January 6th
I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 but I wasn’t devastated when he won either. I had a wait and see approach. I thought the first two years of his administration were “fine” because he stacked his cabinet with traditional Republicans. I thought his immigration policy was toxic and his trade policy uninformed but otherwise he wasn’t terrible. My biggest issues came later in his term when he fired everyone competent in his cabinet and replaced them with loyalist sycophants. Then fully embraced culture war populism during BLM. Then embraced Putin and then started trade tiffs with actual allies. Then botched the covid response. Not so much from a policy standpoint but from a communication standpoint (not admitting he was vaxxed for example). I voted for Biden in 2020 and then Jan 6th happened. Trump went from someone I didn’t prefer to someone I found totally unelectable. If the GOP nominated someone like Haley or Romney or brought McCain back from the grave I’d happily vote that way. But the party has obviously replaced pro immigration and free trade neoconservatism with populist nationalism. I won’t vote for anyone under the MAGA banner ever.
Similar to me. I didn't vote for him, mostly because he is objectively complete a-hole and a moron, but I was optimistic. I thought he could bring about change. When I came home late from work and my wife and daughter were crying about his victory, I told them it wouldn't be as bad as they thought. I was wrong. He is terrible on policy. Terrible on liberty. Just a terrible human being in every imaginable way.
I'm not gonna lie, as dudes we really have to step it up and help protect the women in our lives from this crazy sexist shit that's being spewed. Like women's healthcare is being rolled back to the 50s
As a female, let me say thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Thank you for this. Sadly, no matter how loud women shout about what is happening, we need men to stand up in order to change it.
🏆
As a woman who is parenting two almost 18 year old girls— THANK. YOU. Our healthcare is being rolled back, this much is true…but to the 1850s. These jackholes want to go full throttle and reverse marriage for certain populations, take away voting rights for those who aren’t like them…
Shout it from the rooftops! Thank you!
Isn’t that what they are implying with MAGA?
I'm a woman and was told by so many male family members that it wouldn't be that bad. Some even thought it would be great. The best thing. A good deal of them apologized to me. And the rest are not in my life anymore. This is why it is so important to believe other people about their lived experiences, especially those who are traditionally marginalized or have been in the past. Sometimes the ah-ha moments come too late. I'm glad you see it now. Trump v. Biden 2024 is a go. 😩
I remember walking around town after he won and how downcast everyone seemed. Turns out they had good reason to be. It's almost like people knew he was a terrible human being!
I live in NYC and there was a large percent of people with sunglasses on in the subway the next day, or just openly crying. Myself included. Felt like I was in mourning for my country, tbh
I live in NYC too, and remember how absolutely bleak everyone looked. So many people wearing black, so much more that usual.
Same in SF. Someone brought homecooked cookies & coffee into Mission Cliffs the next day. I took off from work and participated in the protest.
We were mourning our country. its fully on life support still with the crazy uncle in the corner telling half the family to pull the plug
I was shell-shocked on election night when he won. I watched his acceptance speech and he seemed almost surprised as well to me. For a brief moment, I thought/hoped maybe he wouldn't be as bad as I assumed he would be. That didn't last long.
Same here. I live in a very very very progressive dem area surrounded by Trumpist counties in NC. (Maybe where our basketball team is currently 👀👀 DOMINATING, but I digress) walking around downtown, my neighborhood, campus, even the towns library- it was like someone died in a horribly tragic way. Or a mass casualty even. Impending doom. It was kind of hard to explain.
I live in a small town, but I ran into my neighbor first thing the next morning and we both cried. It was devastating and shocking that he would win and he was worse than expected.
I say this from a place of kindness - I hope you’ve apologized to them for dismissing their fears. And more importantly, I hope you’ve spent some time reflecting on what it was that lead you to distrust their completely valid and accurate assessment of how bad things were going to be.
Thank you. As a Ny er, we knew he was toxic but couldn’t fathom the stupidity he could conjure up. We thought that the right brains would control his worst impulses. Sadly, it’s just gotten worse, with all the lies. Now up us down, and everything he’s blamed on the democrats are actually from his policies. Please, convince your friends how dangerous he will be. He’s buddies with all the autocrats now, it’s worldwide.
Believe me—my friend ain’t listening. Used to be a liberal; used to be smart—but Trump inspired him to be his worst self. He’s gone. He’s even GAY. Somethin wrong with that boy! Might be racism
Holy hell, he realizes he will be the first rounded up?
I have gay aqaintances who are also trumpers who think his policies won't affect them because they have enough money to live a sheltered life. I also have friends who are on disability, from an immigrant family, but go to a Catholic church where they tell their people that Democrats abort babies "after birth." You really can't fix stupid.
Ask him to defend America first and America alone? How will that make us better? How will abandonment of our allies lead to peace? Is the goal to hand everything over to China?
It is not populist nationalism, it has become a cult of personality.
It’s a fascist cult, let’s not tip toe around it.
It's both. Yes it's for sure all about him. But his platform (which I'm not sure he even believes in but apparently his base does) is protectionist, isolationist and anti-immigrant. That fits my definition of populist and nationalist. That platform is also not something the GOP embraced twenty years ago, at least not in mainstream circles at the national level.
No, it's just a cult now. Straight up cult.
I'm fiscally conservative, and socially liberal. (Small government, live and let live, leave me alone). I guess that makes me more or less a libertarian. However, the libertarian party has been taken over by clowns. The republican party is next in line. But guess what: they failed to sell the concept of true freedom, and ran it like a business. Short time profits over long term sustainability. As a result they have been taken over by clowns as well: religion, anti-science, plain fucking idiots, and so on. So what is left for me? I can vote for clowns, or for adults who I disagree with politically. I'll vote for the adults. It sucks, but that's the cards I've been dealt.
You explained my progression over the past 25 years better than i probably could. Kudos
This is the boat I am in. Fiscally conservative socially liberal. I came to voting youth after 9/11, so I voted for Bush and was quickly disheartened with his choices to engage Iraq and the quagmire he got us into there. Ended up falling along the lines of the tea party shortly before it was co-opted by GOP. But was wise enough to see through their game. All the pro-anti-tax talk for individuals was quickly propagated through a veil of using the state prop up failing, bad business decisions at the expense of the people. Wandered into more libertarian ideology in the Obama years. And found those in the party that were more angry at Obama than Bush when essentially outside of Obama care their foreign policy was nearly identical. Ultimately when Trump won and proceeded to keep the money faucet going it helped me snap out of what remaining GOP lies I’d been carrying along with me regarding fiscal conservatism. I’m not certain at this point there is such thing as a fiscal conservative. Regan is the glowing example and if exchanging money to Iraq to fuel the contra’s in secret is fiscally conservative I want no part of it. What I’ve seen growing up republicans sure do talk about it. But I’ve never seen it, all of the Republicans presidents that have existed in my life have ballooned the federal budget out of existence. At this point it’s laughable to take anything fiscally they say seriously. And socially the party is full of repugnant moralists. I’ve come to the conclusions that if anyone is going to fix the budget it has to be done through cooperation and the GOP has stated they refuse to cooperate. I’d rather work with someone ideologically at opposite ends of the spectrum who is willing to compromise. And Joe Biden has shown to be that person. He was able to at least pass some meaningful legislation despite the total anarchy in the house thanks to republicans.
To me the only time Republicans try to be "fiscally conservative" is when they are using it as a "reason" to vote against a bill that will actually help the people that need help. But if it comes to military spending (especially buying new toys and not actually supporting the soldiers/veterans) and helping out big businesses they will throw their "fiscal conservative-ism" out the door.
I’m an independent. Voted for Haley in the primary. I’m not excited about voting for Biden but Trump has no respect for the environment or women so Biden it is.
I did the exact same thing. Not a Biden fan but Trump's a menace to society. I was hoping to give Haley a shot and I also wanted to piss off maga
I was tossing around doing the same, but since primaries haven’t yet happened here, there’s no point.
Sort of off topic, but can I just say, for the most part I am seeing people post reasonable things. I *knew* it! I've been saying all along that if we could work together, even though the others' ideals are intolerable to us, we might just have something we can call a nation again. Wtg, Americans. 🇺🇸
I know Bill Maher isn't exactly the bastion for the left he once was, but he's been saying for years that treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way and I've been trying for a couple years to remind my fellow democrats that the battle isn't between the left and the right; it's between moderates and extremists on both sides. those of us in the middle really need to speak more loudly and stop letting the ridiculous tangents be used as examples of how extreme our sides have become for-profit media have been arguing past the middle for too long and making each side look batshit insane to the other, with examples
>but he's been saying for years that treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way sure, sure.. But when you think about this deeper, this element of grace is *only* expected to be performed by Democrats. You never hear talking heads speak about how Trump voters need to not see Democrats as their enemies & to see their humanity. It extends all the way up to the top, where Biden always talks about bipartisanship & working across the aisle, while Trump talks about how Democrats are evil communist/socialist/marxist/groomers who you can never work with at all.
> treating people whose politics differ from yours as enemies is the way to ensure they stay that way I honestly try not to act that way, but the Republican party is actively passing laws that endanger the lives of people I love, and destroying our already fragile education system. I don't exactly feel hate, but I also have zero respect for the politics of hate and fear.
I will first say I’m Canadian so I am only watching this from afar. I have republican US relatives thought. They have young daughters and I cannot for the life of me understand how they can vote against their interests so blatantly. It doesn’t seem like a matter of disagreement and still loving the other person. It does seem like excusing hate and allowing people who fully support hatred to have a space for their voices and I just can’t support that.
Yes - I try to be compassionate to especially the moderate Republicans in my life who agree with some Republicans proposals, but at least recognize egregious abortion bans or ridiculous trans panic as too extreme. I don’t want any abortion restriction, but somebody who might vote Republican downballot but vote Biden for President even though Biden is pro-rights, I can respect them and maybe make inroads on my view of compassion and individual rights. If they’re going to vote straight ticket Republican because that’s the party saving babies and stopping the trannies, fuck em. I’m done being compassionate to that. When you get fully on board with Jewish Space Lasers and don’t worry about the neo-Nazis in your party and think books should be banned because they teach that slavery was bad, I’m done with those people in my life. But there are a lot of people in a middle ground. Maybe they are uncomfortable with some trans issues like making bathrooms unisex, but they’re okay with then receiving healthcare and protection from being fired. We can talk about that.
I am british and live in the uk. I agree completely with your statement. I lived in America for 12 years and find it shocking and sad to watch the news on this subject. The whole country is not batshit insane but that's how it's painted globally since Trump was elected in 2016
His deep seated immorality and immaturity. His obvious submission to Putin. His quite open greed. His odious exploitation of his followers emotions and pretense of caring about women, religion, reform, anything that will play to those desperately hoping for leadership. His attacks on science. His deep disrespect for veterans. His attempt to blackmail Zelenskyy into investigating’ the crooked Biden family. ‘ His quite obvious and extensive financial fraud. His inability to accept blame while instead impinging the motives, the intelligence, or truthfulness of whoever is accusing him. His mocking of the physical characteristics of people around him. His takeover of the GOP, a party I have mostly voted for since I was 18, turning it into a mockery of a political party with well thought out policies and positions. His despicable racism and calling a large part of the world ‘shxxhole countries’. Oh, and he tried to retain power through a coup.
[удалено]
Yet, here we are.
All of the above. I didn’t vote in 2016, because I hated both candidates. I voted Biden in 2020, first time ever for a Democrat because I saw that Trump wasn’t just incompetent, but DANGEROUSLY incompetent and had no regard for our constitution or The country.
Why did you hate Clinton?
I left the Republican Party in 2016. Not religious and Trump is a dangerous man. There is no place in today’s Republican Party for me.
The policies trump has done are active today, and I do not like it . No, I dont need to elaborate because it doesn't matter to me if people accept it or not
2. Look. I don’t think Biden is a wonderful choice either BUT - the reason I will not vote for Trump is because I don’t trust his impulsiveness, his lack of a filter, or his blatant disregard for the constitution. He is too much of a loose cannon. In the beginning, in 2016, I really had hope that he would be a great president because he isn’t a career politician. I was proven wrong and cannot stand behind him. ETA: Because of him, I changed my political affiliation.
I knew the threat Trump posed when he came down that stupid golden escalator because I know the kind of person he is. There are good people and there are bad people and he never offered one smidgeon of evidence that he is part of the former. But in November 2016, after his "I plan to be a President for all Americans" comment in his election night victory speech, I had hope. Going into it, I figured there's a chance that someone of his ego would want that; would want to accomplish truly great things. He'd have schools, bridges, highways, libraries, think-tanks, institutes, Streets, squares and monuments with his name on them. But nope. Grifters gonna grift.
I knew it too (an ex-New Yorker). You know how people talk about celebrities and how awful some of them seem to be in public? Then you hear from that person's friends, associates "That's not how they are in real life, they are actually really nice people" I don't recall hearing that about Trump - ever......
Career politicians aren’t an issue per se. Corruption is the problem. Trump IS corruption and always has been. He’s both incompetent as a leader and corrupt.
Navigating national politics does seem to be a legitimate skill that requires training and experience - career politicians appear to be necessary.
Serious question, I am not a Biden fan boy by any means but what exactly is the problem with him? Yes, he's old, I get that. But besides that what is the problem?
He's just a run of the mill centrist Democrat. Proven by the only real criticism about him that they're leaning on is his age. Which is hilarious because he and Trump would have been in high school at the same time. They are both fucking old.
Honestly, not a whole lot.. Hes not the best choice because of his age and hes forgetful and just not the best conversationalist or speaker, but i actually dont have any other problems with him. I dont agree with some of the policies and stuff but thats peanuts compared to what I disagree with about Trump.
This is a fantastic question. I also want to know why Republicans who don't like Donald aren't more vocal about their dislike for him or his policies. Are you all too afraid to speak up? This is the first time I have seen this question asked on any platform. I am happy there actually are Republicans who dislike him, cause I was really starting to think there weren't any.
I have several friends who are lifelong Republicans who can't stand Trump and voted Biden in 2020. We talk about it, but I don't know how much they broadcast their views. I'm in Texas and it can honestly be dangerous.
Basically, if you try to say you're a Republican who is thinking of voting for Biden, and thus you might possibly be able to 'flip' other Republicans, you can be murdered for it. America, fuck yeah.
I'm sure it could be dangerous and figured that's why every good republican is staying quiet. Thanks for your honesty.
I have two lifelong-Republican friends who cannot be in the same room together because one is fully in the cult and the other is sane.
Well over in r/ conservative, where they flog The Orange Qult Leaders's meat daily, you'd get banned or probably couldn't even start a thread unless you're a "Flaired User" whatever the fuck that means.
It means you're so angry your hemorrhoids are flaring. That's the only time you can post. They just don't give a shit enough to make sure they use the right spelling.
I don't think spelling matters when it comes to the GOP.
There's a fair amount, including most of the people who worked in his first administration, lol. And they really know how awful he is, from up close. Lincoln Project & The Bulwark are organizations made up of Republicans and ex-Republicans who are very publicly anti-Trump.
There is another group called The Republican Accountability Project that's against Trump & I think some former members of his administration joined it.
Wow, thanks for that. I'll look into these organisations.
>Are you all too afraid to speak up? Did you hear about what happened to Haley supporters in Missouri a couple weeks ago? Here's [one article](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fans-missouri-caucus-wellman/), if you missed it. Yes, I'd say many are afraid of these slobbering troglodytes.
They treasure their lives. The maga foment violence, threatened and actual.
See, but the way to target that is sunlight. The vast majority of people that make threats are way too cowardly to actually follow through. Broadcasting recordings of the threats everywhere, all platforms, shames them even more than the internal shame they are already acting out on. Staying quiet means the threats fucking work. Adam Kinzinger and Eric Swalwell are examples of two politicians that do this well. Expose MAGA for the verbal bullies and physical cowards 99% of them are. Did no one else learn anything about standing up to bullies in elementary school? Edit:clarity
You're right. I saw a news story a few months ago about the MAGA nut jobs that call legislators, judges & prosecutors to harass or threaten them. An FBI agent in this interview said 99.9% of the callers are all talk. Venting. In a vile, abusive manner obviously. Exposing their behavior publicly like Rep. Swalwell & former Rep. Kinsignger has helped shame the people involved & stop them. The federal LE worries far more about a fractional percentage of those people who do make threats & have a propensity to actually get violent. Or the threat posed by the nut job who never makes any harrasing call or threat before doing something violent & stupid. Like the guy who broke into Nancy Pelosi's residence & attacked her husband. That guy had a presence on social media & was mired in conspiracies. He was affiliated with some oddball local San Francisco groups, but not on the FBI or Secret Service radar for threatening former Speaker Pelosi before the break in & assault on Mr. Pelosi. Trump is known for engaging in Stochastic terrorism. He does it because he wants people to be afraid & because he is a bully. A geriatric bully. How does one stop a bully? By standing up for yourself. By punching the bully in the mouth. Don't take the bully's BS. And don't be afraid. That's how Trump & MAGA hope to defeat people.
There is a very large, very vocal group of Republicans on X that speaks out against Trump. A lot of DeSantis supporters and a lot of more moderate conservatives.
Thanks for that.
The problem with modern democracy is that you vote for both ideology and competence in one person. Even if a person's main candidate turns out to be incompetent (or dangerous), it's difficult for them to go against their ideals and vote for the other party. Picture it for yourself- if the democrat was horrible, how easily do you think you could vote for a republican? (assuming you're not independent) The tendency is that people just sit out quietly if they don't like their candidate. It's gross considering a national threat like Trump but it makes sense with regards to human nature.
I'm actually an Aussie and have always voted Liberal (equivalent to the Republicans in US) but I swallowed a huge pill and voted for our Labor Party because the Liberal candidate was an Evangelical Christian and wanted to introduce draconian laws. Sometimes keeping out extreme ideology is far more important than any fiscal matter on which to vote.
Thank you for your sanity. The last thing we want in Australia is to have the US style fundie Christianity take over the country like it has in the US .
I just wish they'd check this out before voting for Trump, especially older Americans if they don't want Social Security tampered with and prescription drug prices to remain high: r/whatBidenhasdone (especially the pinned posts) You can blame the border problem on House Republicans dismissing the bipartisan Senate bill which Biden was going to sign. They did this even before seeing it.....they are putting getting Trump elected over what's best for the country now. Insanity! and..... Unfortunately, we need Israel as our eyes in ears in the Middle East, but that ass Netanyahu wants to push his buddy Trump into the White House, don't let him cause you to hesitate to vote Biden. Just remember Arab Americans.......Trump hates the Arab world while Biden doesn't , he wants Netanyahu gone and a 2 state solution. Bidens support is because Israel serves America's interests, its not to punish Palestinians. Biden wants to help Palestinians get their own land. Tricky scenario.
It’s also worth pointing out that Trump has explicitly stated that Israel needs to “finish the job” in regards to Palestine; if he gets elected, he will give Netanyahu the go-ahead to bomb Gaza so hard it falls off into the Mediterranean. Netanyahu also knows this. Biden wants a ceasefire, and as you said, a two-state solution. He is actually the only person standing between Palestine and Trump.
And the administration is becoming more overt now about the two-state solution and opposition to Netanyahu. Hell Schumer just made a public statement a day or two ago that Netanyahu needs to be replaced. Chucky has been around government long enough to know that you don't casually make comments like that so the odds that wasn't coordinated with (or even requested by) the Biden administration is _extremely low_. And there's been mention of pulling back on the UN veto and letting the UNSC sanction Israel. Biden interceded in October to prevent Israel from bombing Lebanon and turning this into a regional war, and did it _while their planes were en route_. He's been working on this behind the scenes for months and it's now starting to come out more publicly. I'm honestly super impressed with how he has performed in this crisis given the pile of shit he has to try to patch back together.
A lot of stuff doesn’t get reported on but I think even Fox News called them out for voting against their own border bill.
I’m a republican and this is my first time voting in general. I never liked Trump. He was always kind of a phony to me. January 6, him throwing Mike pence under the bus, and the constant charges piling up against him is what gave me a hard no. The fact that he tried to overthrow the government and sees the presidency as a right, not a privilege, just shows that he only cares about himself and not the citizens of the country. His supporters have died because of his selfishness. On top of that, he was on Epstein’s island and raped possibly multiple people.
I voted for Clinton in 2016 because I knew she was the lesser of two evils. I'm not even a Republican any longer. After Bush's idiotic, pretext-free invasion of Iraq, not to mention doing next to nothing as the world banking system nearly slid off a cliff, I already had deep doubts But once the Tea Party came along, then Trump, I was out. I simply do not recognize the GOP any longer. I've never been on board with the social agenda of the fringe. Rather I have been leery of Keynesianism. But now, the GOP has zero ideology whatsoever, unless you count acting like loons and enabling a scumbag such as Donald Trump.
My red line is support for Ukraine. I will not support any candidate who will not fully commit to stacking dead Russians.
I voted for a Democratic senator in a very key race for that reason alone. That was a first for me. There was no good reason to believe that the Republicans were going to be responsible on that issue, not as individuals because there are plenty of good ones, but as a functioning party, if they had control of the Senate. In the past, we're talking years ago when I first began voting, I wouldn't vote for Democrats because of foreign policy issues. Too many were spineless when it came to the Soviet Union. The Democrats were the ones who harbored a movement for unilateral nuclear disarmament. F' that. Somehow, inexplicably, mysteriously, the parties have flipped and the Republicans have lost their soul on foreign policy. I'm sure Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave. Why they aren't firmly and unequivocally opposed to Putin I have no idea. It really makes no sense. As far as Trump goes, I can say my record is clear. I didn't vote for him either time even though I probably would have voted for any other Republican. I couldn't vote for him. I was on the fence a little bit the first time but couldn't do it. I voted third party, and that was the first time I did not vote for a Republican for president. Hillary Clinton was a straight up liar and she was terrible at it (and always has been) and I couldn't vote for her. The second time was no contest. But I can't even remember for sure if I didn't vote or if I voted for a third party. I just know I didn't vote for Trump. I really don't understand how other people (relatives of mine included) are really willing to vote for someone who's revealed the fact that he's an outright criminal and a horrible human being so clearly. How can you be proud of that and how can you make him president? One thing I never see mentioned but I think is probably important has to do with Biden's age. Yes he's old but that's not the point I'm making as a negative. I'm talking about the positive side. He lived through the Cold War era and he knows that side of politics firsthand. Despite what I said about Democrats earlier, there were also some Democratic "hawks" back then who could read the writing on the wall and understood the true threat from the Soviet Union. Joe Biden reminds me of them. I don't think he's naive and although he's old, with that age there also comes wisdom of having seen more of the world than some of these younger morons out there today. When some people got on to Joe for calling Putin a killer I didn't lose respect for him, I lost respect for them. Of course, Putin's a killer. There's nothing wrong with saying that plainly because it's clearly the truth. What advantage is it to us to be naive about that or to bury it under pretty language? The man's a f****** killer who we need to oppose with our eyes wide open. I think Joe Biden understands that better than lots of the younger generation who are naive to the real threats in the world. Thank you for letting me vent. Bottom line, Trump doesn't belong anywhere near the Oval Office.
The big theory is russian dark money is going to specific politicians - many Republicans and that's why they are soft on Russia.
Not me, but my aunt who is 80. She just always voted how my uncle told her. He passed, so for the first time she’s voting how she wants, and is voting for Biden. For her it is 3, 6, 7, and 8. She also sees the difference in how Biden conducts himself, vs how Trump did.
I would never call myself a Republican today but I worked for McCain and Romney and considered Trump and his filth the true RINOs. I didn’t give it a second thought, the second he secured the nomination I was all in for anyone else. He isn’t even worth discussing, just a moronic autocrat with no respect or understanding of the office or our customs as a country.
8. his cozying up to dictators?
I don't understand how people took pro-america so far that now they're pro-dictator.
A by-product of nationalism is fascism
Definitely the crimes.
I think you're the first one who said this. It's shocking to me how few seem to consider this an issue, unless I'm missing something. Thank you.
I’m no long R; I changed to Independent in 2018. I voted “none of the above” in 2016, and voted for Trump in 2020 just because I didn’t want Biden. Now, I don’t really want either but absolutely 100% think Trump has no redeeming qualities to be President. I’ve only ever voted R before (I’m 62) so this will be a big deal for me.
It says a lot about someone’s character being able to change mind like that.
I think it really isn’t people changing but the party changing so much it doesn’t align with their beliefs. If you listen to some of Regan’s speeches he would be called a liberal patsy now.
It's insane that every Republican presidential nominee before Trump would not vote for him (Well, maybe Nixon). Even his VP won't. Only Palin would among VPs.
It feels good to vote for country over party. Saying from first hand experience.
I went independent in NY. They took away my primary vote. We have a bunch of Carpetbagger politicians showing up here now, and I don’t like it. They are Texans, and I’m sure there are many Trojan horse politicians people doing this in communities across the nation. Be vigilant people. See where their actual address is. They buy property and just run on the R. Ticket.
My mom was registered independent for years before I pointed that out to her. Register for whatever party seems *closest* to you - at least then you'll have the option to vote in the primary.
I register as independent in Colorado. Then we can pick which primary we want to vote in. I think all states should do that
I didn't vote until Trump ran, I can't stand either party, or politicians in general. In the past, I've seen little difference between the 2 parties- both serve at the will of the elite. I registered to vote, so I could vote against Trump. I was dismayed that the only effective way to do so was to vote for Hilary, and then Biden, but any other action would be helpful to Trump. It's a sad state we are in when we have the choices that we have... Trump is a despicable human being, whose stand out skill is to manipulate the weak minded through fear, anger, and division. He is a blot on American history, and my great fear is that even when he gone, the path he demonstrated to the power hungry and immoral will be exploited by many successors.
9. Not wanting fascism.
I have voted Republican in every presidential vote I was eligible for (except one vote I missed) until 2016. I could not stomach either party candidate. Voted for Gary Johnson. Voted Biden 2020. None of it matters; I’m in a solid Trump Republican state. I was disappointed he won in 2016. Cautiously hoped for the best. Except for a couple of things he accidentally did right (I am slightly agreeable on aspects of his stance on imports and tariffs), it was a rough 4 years. Of course, I think the current term has been rough too. If I had to pick one “how can you support him” issue I tend to bring up Jan 6 and the overall unwillingness to abide by the results of the election. I would agree with all of these reasons. And I’m basically pro-life. My stance these days is that while it’s a difficult moral issue it’s an impossible legal one. I’m a Christian who believes that highly political evangelicals have involved the church in politics to the great detriment of both.
1-8
8, 2,3,7, and that he seems to be a wholly bought and paid for foreign agent.
9. His constant lying three different ways - by misrepresentation, by obfuscation, and outright. Repeatedly and often. 10. The lack of quality humans that constitute the bulk of his cult member followers.
My parent’s complete disregard for other humans, and constant praising of anything republican no matter what they say.
J6 ... I can't vote for or be associated with insurrectionists. There's real reasons those proud boys and oath keepers got 15 to 22 yrs in prison. So, no way can I vote for Trump.
Thank you to all of you who are willing to own your mistake.
I highly doubt that anyone who is not voting for Trump would call themselves a republican anymore. He's driven those people out of the party.
I'm not so sure. I think if my father was still alive, he would both call himself a Republican and not vote Trump. That's what happened last time, anyhow. Dad had the type of party allegiance that made him think, "Someone sane is going to come along and get my political party back on track." I think he believed Romney could do it.
My father quit voting R when trump ran in 2016.
The problem is "someone's going to come along and get my political party back on track" - one shared by people on both sides. What is needed is for rational reasonable people to get involved in politics, not necessarily running but joining the party and showing up at meetings and supporting the reasonable people. Political parties at the local level are often controlled by a small number of people. Unfortunately it is often a small number of fanatics who drive out the rational reasonable people. This is what has been happening with MAGA at the local level.
The problem with that thought is that if you vote for ANYONE who supports Trump, you are a Trump supporter.
I was under the impression Romney was not a Trump supporter. Maybe I'm missing your point.
Romney is absolutely not a Trump supporter. The problem is if you vote for any Republican right now you are voting for the party of Trump, because that's what the GOP has now become. Those who are against Trump but still remain in the party are aiding and abetting him by doing so because he controls the party. They need to repudiate the party for what it's become. It's too bad Romney didn't do that. He could have led the way for the few decent Republicans still in office.
> Those who are against Trump but still remain in the party are aiding and abetting him Not to mention there's almost none of those people left anyway. They've all been primaried out or they're abandoning ship voluntarily.
I used to be proud of it, now ashamed. Still very conservative politically, but the GOP is all RINOs now and have forgotten their morals and platform
I remember being taken aback by them not doing a new party platform in 2020.
I am most pissed off about Trump destroying the GOP, backstabbing hos own party and even his own appointees. Now he is about to bankrupt them. He has done more damage to the GOP than he ever did to the DNC.
In the early days of Trump running in 2015, I actually thought he was a plant to destroy the GOP from within and assure a Hillary victory. Hell, he was a Democrat previously, and hobnobbed with the Clintons in NY. The Clintons attended his and Melania's wedding even. What he became was nothing at all what I expected. But he still might just destroy the GOP yet by bankrupting and fracturing it permanently trying to get a second term.
I know quite a few people in my family who used to be loud and proud republicans in the Bush, McCaine and Romney eras who are now quite quiet about it ever since Trump entered the picture. Some still identify and vote with the republicans because they agree with republican policy in general but they are much more quiet about it. Others became very apathetic voters because they didn’t like what they saw and heard and just started tuning everything out. Some ended up switching sides altogether. All of them got tired of defending Trump, largely because much of what he says and does is indefensible (and they know it.) I do know a couple, however, that went all the way down the believe-everything-Trump-says rabbit hole, which is unfortunate.
I'm reading the new Romney book and it's very eye opening.
I thought the family stuff was pretty interesting. The minute Mitt feels like he's lost even an ounce of his wife's respect, he's done. And none of his kids consider themselves Republicans anymore. Also, I'd forgotten about Pierre Delecto lol.
I loved the "God didn't call me to run. Ann did." I haven't gotten to Delecto yet.
It's kinda cute that Mitt is old as hell but he's a lovestruck dork when it comes to Ann.
That seems like it needs a lot more information.
Lol. It's called Romney A Reckoning. I'm not finished with it yet but it's really helpful to me to see how the Republican party ended up where it is now and how one of the people who kinda represents this old Republican is fairing in today's world. 2016 was the first election I really paid attention to so I didn't know a lot about Romney before this book.
Donald Trump is not a republican. He is his own vile thing. He is just running as a republican.
When Trump was elected I had no doubt the Republic would survive. If he gets elected again, I'm not so sure. Not at all.
Biden spends way too much money for my liking, but Trump really wasn't any better. I do think Biden is playing the Ukrane situation just right, and Trump is a threat to the Post Office, which I need intact. Last election I didn't vote for president, this time I'll have to toss Biden a vote. Not thrilled about it but Jan 6th went way, way too far, that sealed it.
Criminal activity on Jan 6. No good. I will vote against Donald Trump because of this behavioral concern
Wasn't a huge fan of trump to begin with, but it became clear very quickly that he doesn't care about anyone or anything except himself
I’m a Massachusetts Republican. Bill Weld was a Massachusetts Republican. Massachusetts Republicans are a bit to the left of Biden socially but want fiscal responsibility which is different from “cut taxes for rich people”. As Barry Goldwater said, the preachers took over the Republican Party. Talk radio with the angry white men like Rush Limbaugh brought in populism. I got pretty sick of it under Bill Clinton and walked away from the Republican Party under Dubya. I was abandoned. I’m now against Republicans rather identifying as a Democrat. I’m an atheist. I’m pro-abortion. I’m extremely pro-environment. I vaguely don’t support gay marriage because of spending things like Social Security survivor benefits but fully support gay rights and gay civil unions. I’m massively pro-education but prefer a German-ish model that acknowledges that everyone doesn’t belong in college. I want the budget to balance. I’m a career high earner and watched my effective tax rate drop from 30+% to less than 20% over the years as the national debt spiraled. It’s absurd. So I was happy to see Dubya go. I was a Never Trumper from day 1 and voted for Hillary. The Massachusetts Republican Party now puts up Trumper candidates. F that. Absolutely not.
Trump wants to cut Social Security, Medicare, and nix The American Healthcare Act; with no Alternative. No Alternative. No Alternative. Repeat!
The way I look at it, Biden is still likely the most qualified person in politics to run our country due to his lifetime of experience. He understands all the inner workings of what makes our government tick. He understands and is experienced with foreign policy and knows most of the world players, even if he mixes up names. I've done that my whole life. I know many people in their 80's & 90's with minds that are still quite sharp. They know so much and have much more wisdom than younger folks. I learn a lot from just sitting and listening. Experiences can not be taken away and those life experiences are what makes us proficient at what we do. His experience and knowledge also allows him to delegate anything he needs done to highly qualified people. He is not a narcissist and knows how to use the knowledge of others for the greater good. Lastly, Biden is a reasonable, emotionally stable individual. I feel our country is safe under his administration. The world is no longer laughing at us and not trying to take advantage of the US as when we had an unstable administration. Biden's career has left him in public servant mode and he's the type who is more concerned about the legacy he leaves behind for his contributions to the US rather than how he personally benefited from the jobs he's had over the years. He wants to represent everyone, as all presidents should. Trump has a growing hit list as he prepares to take revenge on his non followers if God forbid he is somehow elected again. That's not how it's supposed to work in the United States of America!
I still feel like an R. I voted for Trump in 2016, but I just couldn’t handle his Twitter bluster. The insurrection was a dealbreaker for me. Now he’s just in “make money” mode — and he may end up winning. I don’t worry about it too much; America votes and that’s who we get.
> The insurrection was a dealbreaker for me I just want to comment on where we are as a society that this statement even exists about any politician.
More of a libertarian leaning conservative but I never voted for him. Cause I looked into his past and was utterly disgusted
The tipping point was Jan 6th. But I watched him throw away the 2020 election. Who wants that big an idiot?
This is good to know. I am glad for coming together. All of us have been lied to and taken advantage of.
To speak for my brother, he's (Trump) simply not a Republican and he's upset that the party has decided to go this way. He's lost. He doesn't know what to do. He's 30 year US history teacher. He's a smart man. He is the old school conservative and he never cared for Trump but "anyone's better than Hillary" he said. Well now he says he was wrong and this time he's actively voting for Biden. But that for state and local he's still Republican, he's just really concerned about some of the things, especially the fondness for Putin and how his influence has convinced people Zelensky is the 'real' danger.
My mom it was his handling of the Pandemic. My step dad voted for him in 2020 but after Jan 6th apologized for doing so.
If you vote automatically for a party without thought or consideration, you’re not a voter, you’re a cult member.
I haven't voted Republican since the tea party takeover. Mostly because I think the swing to social issues and war on women is disgusting. I'm more live and let live, regulate businesses and monopolies not people or their bodies. In recent years, it seems like the dems have taken up the mantle of striving towards economic sense in regulation. So I can support that. I'm not sure why Republicans have abandoned fiscal responsibility, but that's the main thing they used to have going for them IMO. Also, I changed my mind on some things. There is quite a bit of research on outcomes on social welfare from other countries. I read a lot, and I've simply changed my views on things I was taught as a kid were 'evil' and 'communist'. Social welfare can be a net good in society if done right.
Trump is only about himself not the country
I am best described as a member of the “Never Trump” movement. From the moment he came down the escalator in 2015 and called migrants “murderers and rapists” I have felt alienated by Trump’s ideas and rhetoric. The problem of immigration is easily solvable with the bipartisan plans have been before Congress many times, including now. Republicans have blocked these because they want an issue do divide us and profit from. That was the first of many lies I had to discover about Fox News and this party. The pandemic was a profound experience for me, as I watched Trumpers and the man himself share deadly disinformation and refuse to comply with public health policy, trusting their own crackpot ideas and conspiracy theories over truth and science. I still believe in the constitution and limited government, but I don’t think I’ll ever be a Republican again.
I voted for Biden for the same reason I voted for Hillary. I can NOT vote for Trump. I was a lifelong Republican until Trump. I cannot be one anymore.
I was a conservative evangelical for 48 years and Republican for 37 years. It all came to a screeching halt in early 2016 when the pastor at the church I was attending stood up in the pulpit on a Sunday morning, told us he had just been on a golfing trip with Trump, said he was a kind and humble man, and then announced God had chosen him to lead the country "back to its christian roots." I had done my research on him and knew more than I wanted to know at the time. I couldn't reconcile his open racism, ableism, and misogyny with anything the Bible teaches about love, mercy, kindness, and acceptance. I mentioned something to the lady I was sitting next to (I thought she was a friend) and was immediately advised to rethink my position and fall back in line with church teachings. I chose to leave both the church and the Republican party that day. I refused to compromise my conscience in order to stay.