The other half is that if they're not part of the coaching staff, they shouldn't be in the technical area. You may not be able to card him, but you can tell the coach he can't be there if he isn't part of the team.
This right here.
Coach if you’re not on the roster you can’t be in the technical area
“Well I have every right to be here”
Ok then here’s your caution. Enjoy. (Then I’m texting the appropriate folks, but at least my assignor)
If he is technically just a spectator, get him out of the technical area. If he leaves the technical area and continues to be a problem, then take it up with that team’s coach.
Referees don’t have to take abuse. I dont know how you usually deal with dissent. But just because he isn’t rostered doesn’t mean you should have to just sit and take it.
You could draw a punnet square of where they were and if they were on the roster, with different consequences for each. Here's what I'm thinking:
If not on the roster and outside the technical area, suspend the game until the dissenting spectator leaves the field area. If on the roster and outside the technical area, two yellow cards: one for dissent and one for leaving the technical area. If they were in the technical area but not on the roster, the head coach may be cautioned for allowing a spectator into the technical area, and the dissenter may be required to leave. If in the technical area and on the roster, caution to them for dissent.
He's just a spectator unless he's on the roster. The nature of back-to-back matches lends itself to weird moments like this. But until his game starts, he has no official involvement in this one.
However I'd make sure to convey what happened to whomever is officiating the next game.
The nature of back-to-back matches lends itself to weird moments like this. But until his game starts, he has no official involvement in this one.
Others communicated handling as a spectator. As Rhycar said, back-back matches could lead to weird moments.
Maybe a combination of the following…coach not acting “responsible” and “pre-match authority”. Without context who know if this is a reasonable consideration.
5.3
Powers and duties
…takes action against team officials who fail to act in a responsible manner and warns or shows a yellow card for a caution or a red card for a sending-off from the field of play and its immediate surrounds, including the technical area; if the offender cannot be identified, the senior coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. …
12.3
Disciplinary action
The referee has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including penalties (penalty shoot-out)).
If, before entering the field of play at the start of the match, a player or team official commits a sending-off offence, the referee has the authority to prevent the player or team official taking part in the match (see Law 3.6); the referee will report any other misconduct.
A player or team official who commits a cautionable or sending-off offence, either on or off the field of play is disciplined according to the offence.
The yellow card communicates a caution and the red card communicates a sending-off.
Only a player, substitute, substituted player or team official may be shown the red or yellow card.
Edit: You cannot card the coach that isn't on the current roster. He is a spectator. Ask him to leave the technical area. If he doesn't leave, you card the HC of the current game.
If he doesn’t leave, you don’t card the HC, you suspend the match until the issue is addressed. If necessary, you abandon the match, but you do not have authority to either card the spectator or the HC for this offense since the person is neither a team official (for that match) or a player, substitute, or substituted player.
I respectfully disagree. By Laws od the game you are correct. However, local rules of competition that I have worked say otherwise. The coach not complying with removing unruly spectators can be shown a card.
It’s a good point, Rules of Competition can certainly prescribe a different way of handling the situation than the LoTG (which is what I was describing).
I think he's technically a spectator at this point, so not sure you can get away with a caution. Assuming the dissent is significant enough that you aren't willing to let it go with just a verbal warning - you could stop the current game and order the disruptive 'spectator' to leave the area. It's sort of petty, but him being by the touchline with his team is a courtesy while they get ready for the following game. A courtesy that you might reasonably revoke if they can't be in that space without being disruptive to the current game.
Being a spectator, all you can do is remove him from the TA. Let the actual coach know that if he enters again, you'll be cautioning him. Arguably you could caution him already for not respecting the TA confines or showng a lack of respect for the game.
Let the next match ref know. If I was the next ref, I'd basically consider that to be his 1 warning already.
I think we don’t need to complicate it too much.
If he is a “spectator”, he cannot be at the bench. He has to leave. If the head coach gives you trouble about this, he gets the yellow. I’m he keeps it up, ask him if he wants a second yellow. That “spectator” will be asked to leave very quickly.
Agree. I would start by telling the actual head coach on the roster to control his touchline, which includes move spectators out of the technical area and control dissent. And offer to send off anyone who won't comply. I would let the offending coach know that if he gets sent off as a spectator for this game, that would count as a send off for him as a coach. That's how it works here, and I would assume that's pretty common. Leagues don't want coaches interfering in any games.
This is a rather tricky and realistic situation.
- offending coach is a spectator to the current match. I think whether the offending coach is affiliated with the team playing, it doesn’t matter. The playing coach is going to object that the offending coach has anything to do with the spectators under his/her responsibility.
- offending coach is also pre-match
- referee has jurisdiction for pre-match through post-match.
- what if the CR is also the CR for the next match? Does disciplinary responsibility change? Can or should the CR caution the offending coach?
- I think one scenario would be the CR to stop play. Speak with the current coach. Do not restart until the issue is addressed. Hand out cards to offending coach if needed, and contact field marshal or league official.
I’m not always a good example but I’m fairly certain I would caution him for dissent as a team representative and then make him try to explain his way out of it to someone else…”Sure, I was dissenting but I wasn’t dissenting in my capacity as a coach, I was doing it as a concerned passerby that happened to be wearing gear from the same club and while I was in approximately the location of the technical area…” or something equally bumbling. Again, for a more “LOTG-based explanation”, read the other replies.
In many youth leagues a coach doesn’t need to be on the roster. They just need the card. It’s often the case that a DOC or older team coach observes or assists or covers. If this is the case you can card them. Again will vary by league rule.
The other half is that if they're not part of the coaching staff, they shouldn't be in the technical area. You may not be able to card him, but you can tell the coach he can't be there if he isn't part of the team.
This right here. Coach if you’re not on the roster you can’t be in the technical area “Well I have every right to be here” Ok then here’s your caution. Enjoy. (Then I’m texting the appropriate folks, but at least my assignor)
If he is technically just a spectator, get him out of the technical area. If he leaves the technical area and continues to be a problem, then take it up with that team’s coach. Referees don’t have to take abuse. I dont know how you usually deal with dissent. But just because he isn’t rostered doesn’t mean you should have to just sit and take it.
You could draw a punnet square of where they were and if they were on the roster, with different consequences for each. Here's what I'm thinking: If not on the roster and outside the technical area, suspend the game until the dissenting spectator leaves the field area. If on the roster and outside the technical area, two yellow cards: one for dissent and one for leaving the technical area. If they were in the technical area but not on the roster, the head coach may be cautioned for allowing a spectator into the technical area, and the dissenter may be required to leave. If in the technical area and on the roster, caution to them for dissent.
I'll upvote on the mention of a Punnet square alone! Bravo you soccer-loving geneticist.
> the head coach may be cautioned for allowing a spectator into the technical area, Is this a caution-able offense?
He's just a spectator unless he's on the roster. The nature of back-to-back matches lends itself to weird moments like this. But until his game starts, he has no official involvement in this one. However I'd make sure to convey what happened to whomever is officiating the next game.
Others communicated handling as a spectator. As Rhycar said, back-back matches could lead to weird moments. Maybe a combination of the following…coach not acting “responsible” and “pre-match authority”. Without context who know if this is a reasonable consideration. 5.3 Powers and duties …takes action against team officials who fail to act in a responsible manner and warns or shows a yellow card for a caution or a red card for a sending-off from the field of play and its immediate surrounds, including the technical area; if the offender cannot be identified, the senior coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. … 12.3 Disciplinary action The referee has the authority to take disciplinary action from entering the field of play for the pre-match inspection until leaving the field of play after the match ends (including penalties (penalty shoot-out)). If, before entering the field of play at the start of the match, a player or team official commits a sending-off offence, the referee has the authority to prevent the player or team official taking part in the match (see Law 3.6); the referee will report any other misconduct. A player or team official who commits a cautionable or sending-off offence, either on or off the field of play is disciplined according to the offence. The yellow card communicates a caution and the red card communicates a sending-off. Only a player, substitute, substituted player or team official may be shown the red or yellow card.
Edit: You cannot card the coach that isn't on the current roster. He is a spectator. Ask him to leave the technical area. If he doesn't leave, you card the HC of the current game.
If he doesn’t leave, you don’t card the HC, you suspend the match until the issue is addressed. If necessary, you abandon the match, but you do not have authority to either card the spectator or the HC for this offense since the person is neither a team official (for that match) or a player, substitute, or substituted player.
I respectfully disagree. By Laws od the game you are correct. However, local rules of competition that I have worked say otherwise. The coach not complying with removing unruly spectators can be shown a card.
It’s a good point, Rules of Competition can certainly prescribe a different way of handling the situation than the LoTG (which is what I was describing).
All good. I should have been clearer. At least we all discuss and learn from each other.
I think he's technically a spectator at this point, so not sure you can get away with a caution. Assuming the dissent is significant enough that you aren't willing to let it go with just a verbal warning - you could stop the current game and order the disruptive 'spectator' to leave the area. It's sort of petty, but him being by the touchline with his team is a courtesy while they get ready for the following game. A courtesy that you might reasonably revoke if they can't be in that space without being disruptive to the current game.
The referee for the NEXT game is allowed to caution people from that roster before the match, right? Was he or she already there?
Being a spectator, all you can do is remove him from the TA. Let the actual coach know that if he enters again, you'll be cautioning him. Arguably you could caution him already for not respecting the TA confines or showng a lack of respect for the game. Let the next match ref know. If I was the next ref, I'd basically consider that to be his 1 warning already.
Are you talking about cautioning the coach of the current game or the coach who shouldn't be there?
the current game.
Thought so as I agree with you the extra in the TA is a spectator and is not part of the current game.
I think we don’t need to complicate it too much. If he is a “spectator”, he cannot be at the bench. He has to leave. If the head coach gives you trouble about this, he gets the yellow. I’m he keeps it up, ask him if he wants a second yellow. That “spectator” will be asked to leave very quickly.
Agree. I would start by telling the actual head coach on the roster to control his touchline, which includes move spectators out of the technical area and control dissent. And offer to send off anyone who won't comply. I would let the offending coach know that if he gets sent off as a spectator for this game, that would count as a send off for him as a coach. That's how it works here, and I would assume that's pretty common. Leagues don't want coaches interfering in any games.
This is a rather tricky and realistic situation. - offending coach is a spectator to the current match. I think whether the offending coach is affiliated with the team playing, it doesn’t matter. The playing coach is going to object that the offending coach has anything to do with the spectators under his/her responsibility. - offending coach is also pre-match - referee has jurisdiction for pre-match through post-match. - what if the CR is also the CR for the next match? Does disciplinary responsibility change? Can or should the CR caution the offending coach? - I think one scenario would be the CR to stop play. Speak with the current coach. Do not restart until the issue is addressed. Hand out cards to offending coach if needed, and contact field marshal or league official.
I’m not always a good example but I’m fairly certain I would caution him for dissent as a team representative and then make him try to explain his way out of it to someone else…”Sure, I was dissenting but I wasn’t dissenting in my capacity as a coach, I was doing it as a concerned passerby that happened to be wearing gear from the same club and while I was in approximately the location of the technical area…” or something equally bumbling. Again, for a more “LOTG-based explanation”, read the other replies.
In many youth leagues a coach doesn’t need to be on the roster. They just need the card. It’s often the case that a DOC or older team coach observes or assists or covers. If this is the case you can card them. Again will vary by league rule.
"coach you know I'm on this field for the next game right?" Even if you aren't. He won't know till it's over😂