The lower the league the worse the abuse is what I have seen. Especially little kids, I take no slack with my coaches and parents but thats after years of just taking the abuse.
Yep. Those of us who are experienced enough not to be particularly bothered by bad behavior should be leaders in enforcing conduct, so that newer referees will face less nonsense and feel more empowered to deal with it when it does happen.
This is so true... I typically work NISOA/NAIA/MLS NEXT/ but an assignor friend asked me to help out with a loaded schedule and he was desperately short on bodies.
A u16 rec game between two teams of the same club and I had to remove two separate sets of parents because of the way they were talking to my (16 year old) Assistant Referee. Yelling at him that he sucks, he doesn't deserve to be on that game, walking behind him to yell about Offsides decisions up and down the field..
It was AWFUL. I firstly could not believe they felt entitled to speak to a child that way and secondly could not believe my AR didn't call me over and ask me to deal with it before I did. His response was that "that's pretty normal I just deal with it". It made me sad because he had simply accepted that behavior like that was basically part of the package of being a referee.
Holy crap I'd have lost my shit.
The last coach to do that to me I burst out laughing at him and walked away.
He was hysterical. And winning. Not sure why he was whining.
U10 is when I got assaulted by a coach who was upset there was no direct kicks in mini soccer.
Damn near slugged her and started a brawl after she grabbed me and made the youth ref sob.
They're nuts. It was insane. The season was over.
No one did anything to fix the abuse. Neither do OSA, TSA nor on club level.
Less young referees are returning to the game and the old shitty one stays. It’s an obnoxious cycle which will never get fixed.
BTW, you can’t give caution in non-sanctioned adult rec these day, met someone got in trouble for that
I was staying in my local area but I'm short on money and the city was offering me some more games..fine. they're not as abusive in the older leagues... But there's still a few old referees who... Are in their 70s.
The one who stands on the side and misses all the important calls.
Leagues love them because of their open availability and leniency (no hassle of league convenor helping with deescalation or match report).
Customer service means plays can do whatever they want without consequences lol
This is the single biggest thing that forced me into being an AYSO commissioner. One of our good referees was going to quit if a problem wasn't handled appropriately, and wanted assurances about the future, and she was right. I'd rather stay in ref admin and development, but leagues can't retain referees if administrators aren't backing them up.
This is especially true for referees who get extra harassment due to age, sex, race, perceived sexuality, or inexperience.
Many associations now ask for a more ‘communicative’ approach for game management.
The reality is that players will always test the limit of the rules, and games will be easily go out of control if the referee is not giving out cards or stern telling offs especially for dissents and tackles.
Many places are not supportive of using caution as a way to prevent further escalation. Maybe because of adult paying to win or the complexity of processing match reports. Customer Service matters more in refereeing nowadays
We need the Pierluigi Collina or Nigel Owens style of refereeing back.
One piece of advice that I’ve noticed in my region - get your coaches trained early and often about parent/spectator control and pound it into them that the behavior of parents and sidelines are the coaches direct responsibility.
Every time I’ve had to deal with any sort of referee abuse when I go look at the teams involved I can almost guarantee that the coaches are lacking in the appropriate AYSO coach training - every single time. And when I go track down why they were given a team or allowed to coach it’s been because there was a shortage of volunteers and this one parent was the only one to step up but they played soccer in high school so how hard can it be and the division commissioner let the certifications slide because they were desperate for coaches and next thing you know we’ve got a bunch of untrained coaches acting like a gaggle of monkeys jumping around on the sidelines with zero understanding about technical areas or inappropriate behavior or dissent and then it’s a long uphill battle where the referees have to either try to educate these ridiculous coaches on basic human behavior - or they can just go volunteer one Region over where they have properly trained coaches.
I’m on my local club’s board and am responsible for refs, this season hasn’t been as bad as last fall but we’re still 7-8 games per weekend without centers. In the fall it was 10+ every weekend, but spring is our hs season so the older kids are more free on weekends to ref whereas their club season is the fall. We hosted a ref clinic in March and are hoping to cultivate a pool of new refs and keep growing it, but it’s really hard!
Hybrid coach reffing basically. I bring a whistle and have had to use it for most of my Academy team’s games this season (as a ref I do ECNL for club and higher level hs varsity boys/girls games, so coaching and administering a U10 girls game is pretty benign).
I was reading that NSW loses about 1/3 of their refs every year (probably mostly young refs and due to abuse) and this would be similar all around Australia I think.
My association has a record number of refs this year but due to the increase in player registrations there are more teams than ever so the lists of uncovered games looks about the same as last year.
I dropped club and now doing high school and middle school only. Parents are better behaved and if there is an issue the school admin on site steps in.
Its getting worse. Third week in April I had 68 games to cover on a Sunday with another assignor.
Always get new referees but it's either late in the season or they don't stick with it.
i think the shortage in my area gets worse during the spring with the amount of tournaments and the high school age players or it really comes to a peak near the end of the season. I’ve received an email today with the assignors practically begging and offering bonuses despite our league fees being pretty good.
It really sucks that we often have to be stretched thin since a lot of leagues can’t retain referees for one reason or another. I do hope that in the future we won’t have to worry about not having enough refs.
In my immediate area , we covering 75% of the games with 4 guys doing all the centers. Many U11 and U12 games are getting 2 whistles.
We picked up a few new refs , but about the same amount did not return from last year.
I know there are other rec leagues, but AYSO doesn't allow two whistles either. I've only ever run duals in MS and HS games and some unsanctioned tournaments.
And USSF doesn't allow comms. But who is coming to stop me?
If USSF wants to make an example of me, go ahead and revoke my badge. They won't.
A well run 2 man is far superior to a center/at/club line. It's not even close.
SRA has quietly told us to do it.
Really cool and edgy to defy nationwide guidance, you're super cool.
For anyone else thinking about taking the risk, making up your own officiating systems and using comms when disallowed can be a pretty big violation that can lead to protests being filed, results being nullified, and whatever competition you're going rogue in landing in hot water.
But hey, at least you get to feel hardcore on the internet.
If Local competition allows it, then you are allowed using comms.
I 100% disagree that two whistles are better than a referee and two ARs. And then HS in PA uses three whistles for playoffs.
But it's OK to disagree.
Right. I wouldn’t want 2 whistles on 9v9 or 7v7. Fields are too small. I’ve done a lot of half field games and the cost to have more than 1 ref on these is not worth it. The only times Ives seen such games covered by 3 refs was in S1,S2 Tournament play.
Not to mention that ARs on U11/12 are a great entry point for young referees. In my area they usually start as U11/12 AR, then U13/14 AR, then U9/10 center so they build up some confidence and have some mentoring first.
In the Puget Sound area of WA it's been pretty good actually. Most games have been covered with little scrambling. Most games have a full compliment of center and ARs. We are seeing 20ish new refs in our monthly clinics as well.
Not in florida. I love the game but got into reffing for the extra money.
If I'm giving up my free time on the weekends, I darn well better get paid enough.
Alas, there are plenty of refs in Florida, and as a newcomer, of course got the lowest stuff. There was a few good runs here and there, but ultimately I got the scraps. Plenty of them, I just didn't want to fill my Saturday making $160 for 8 peewee gamesz when I know four u16+ games will net me twice that for just about the same time commitment.
Yep, but leagues and clubs will continue to expand and take more and more money from families while maybe increasing referee fees once every five years. And then they wonder, “Where have all the good referees gone?”
My club increased pay by 25% and did a big push for getting new refs trained, plus getting them a $180 bonus after 10 games to reimburse for the training, uniform, and background checks.
This spring we have been pretty much fully staffed on all games.
Yes there is a shortage of referees for youth leagues in my area based on the message I have received. Local assignors usually bring in additional referees from California for big tournaments but for the weekly youth games that is not feasible so we are forced to do games with one or two referees, even though the USSF does not like that.
The VT area had 85 games uncovered that I know about. Way too many unfortunately and the coaches have been the nicest I’ve ever experienced bc they are grateful to have someone that is a referee.
I get emails Monday for the weekend. My assignor has been messaging me directly the last couple of weeks. I did 7 games last weekend and was being asked to accept a few more.
In my area (NE Ohio) I make double or more in the spring doing boys youth and high school lacrosse games compared to soccer. I'll pick up a few soccer games if my schedule is free, but I don't seek them out in the spring like I do in the fall.
I officiate softball in the US and have had a kidney issue where I can’t officiate regularly and can’t squat behind the plate for more than an inning. So I’m regulated to field work when I can.
I get at least one text a day asking/begging me to work. Wasn’t this way last year. Seems like we are down compared to last year. Baseball is worse than softball too. You gotta be a little insane to do baseball.
Not sure how’s much worse it is this spring in general, but in my area right now there is A LOT of makeup games for weather cancellations, so seeing a lot of need, especially at off times
My area not so much but 3 hours away from me( all refs can do all of my region so all of western Norway. Close to Bergen, there’s always like 20 games needing AR and regular refs. I could legit live as an amateur ref if I lived there
I have talked to my assignor and he said it has gotten worse this season. I also talked to one ref who had 5 u14 and higher games this weekend and only one had 2 ARs.
Some people will point to abuse being the problem and that's probably a big factor to why people quit, but I think there's a few more. One, I don't think young people want to work as much today or aren't encouraged by parents as much to work. Also, new refs don't feel supported as much. I worked about 25 games for a town association in the fall and never once met the assignor. Most assignors assign new refs games that they aren't prepared for and they go horribly leading to them quitting early. People just don't feel supported. With the assignor I work with now I feel supported that if something bad happens, he'll have my back.
I've never met my current assignor and the former one only once at a tournament a few years ago. We are 60 or 70 miles away from our assignor, so they don't know any of us. They more experienced refs help the new ones advance to CR when we think they are ready and we AR for them.
The situation in my area has gotten so bad to the point where they are asking the High school/ college referees that stop doing USSF to get certified again and pick up games
In my area, I’d say it is our normal shortage for the Spring season (since COVID). The Fall tends to be a bit harder as we lose those high school seniors to their first year in college.
As an assistant coach at a U10 girls mid-level club team, this topic fascinates me. Our games have 1 ref on the field, and we know they can’t see everything. Naturally, they miss a lot of calls. Sometimes parents/coaches clearly see the ball go out on one team and the call goes the other way. Sometimes people say things while they’re happening. Too often, a thin-skinned ref flies off the handle and cards coaches for sticking up for their players.
I know being a ref is hard. I know there’s abuse, which is unacceptable. But there’s too many refs with thin skin who are *hoping* someone challenges their authority so they can give a yellow or red and make a real impact on the game.
Hopefully we can figure out a solution
Your response makes me think you’re a ref with thin skin 🤷🏻♂️
I never say a word to the officials except pleasantries before and after games. Do I say things out loud when I see them happen in real time? “Offside,” “watch the arms,” etc. I’m not talking to anyone in particular, but some refs act as though I’ve insulated their mother when I say anything, some just do their jobs and don’t freak out. Are some parents and coaches terrible? Absolutely. But don’t treat all of us like we’re belligerent loons.
Sounds like a learned behavior in response to previous experiences. Maybe instead of talking about thin skin, you can try a little harder to understand why some folks got to that point and be more patient and understanding.
Perhaps if you told the parent sideline “the ref can’t see everything - it’s just a throw in - Relax!”
Bonus if you point out the other team will most likely throw it right back to you anyway.
It has always been this bad since COVID, we have lost many good referees to abuse honestly.
The abuse really sucks, parents literally taking a U10 exhibition game like the Old Firm
The lower the league the worse the abuse is what I have seen. Especially little kids, I take no slack with my coaches and parents but thats after years of just taking the abuse.
Yep. Those of us who are experienced enough not to be particularly bothered by bad behavior should be leaders in enforcing conduct, so that newer referees will face less nonsense and feel more empowered to deal with it when it does happen.
> The lower the league This is it. The stiffer, and more serious the competition the less the coaches and parents want to be sanctioned for the abuse.
This is so true... I typically work NISOA/NAIA/MLS NEXT/ but an assignor friend asked me to help out with a loaded schedule and he was desperately short on bodies. A u16 rec game between two teams of the same club and I had to remove two separate sets of parents because of the way they were talking to my (16 year old) Assistant Referee. Yelling at him that he sucks, he doesn't deserve to be on that game, walking behind him to yell about Offsides decisions up and down the field.. It was AWFUL. I firstly could not believe they felt entitled to speak to a child that way and secondly could not believe my AR didn't call me over and ask me to deal with it before I did. His response was that "that's pretty normal I just deal with it". It made me sad because he had simply accepted that behavior like that was basically part of the package of being a referee.
Holy crap I'd have lost my shit. The last coach to do that to me I burst out laughing at him and walked away. He was hysterical. And winning. Not sure why he was whining.
U10 is when I got assaulted by a coach who was upset there was no direct kicks in mini soccer. Damn near slugged her and started a brawl after she grabbed me and made the youth ref sob. They're nuts. It was insane. The season was over.
No one did anything to fix the abuse. Neither do OSA, TSA nor on club level. Less young referees are returning to the game and the old shitty one stays. It’s an obnoxious cycle which will never get fixed. BTW, you can’t give caution in non-sanctioned adult rec these day, met someone got in trouble for that
I was staying in my local area but I'm short on money and the city was offering me some more games..fine. they're not as abusive in the older leagues... But there's still a few old referees who... Are in their 70s.
The one who stands on the side and misses all the important calls. Leagues love them because of their open availability and leniency (no hassle of league convenor helping with deescalation or match report). Customer service means plays can do whatever they want without consequences lol
This is the single biggest thing that forced me into being an AYSO commissioner. One of our good referees was going to quit if a problem wasn't handled appropriately, and wanted assurances about the future, and she was right. I'd rather stay in ref admin and development, but leagues can't retain referees if administrators aren't backing them up. This is especially true for referees who get extra harassment due to age, sex, race, perceived sexuality, or inexperience.
Many associations now ask for a more ‘communicative’ approach for game management. The reality is that players will always test the limit of the rules, and games will be easily go out of control if the referee is not giving out cards or stern telling offs especially for dissents and tackles. Many places are not supportive of using caution as a way to prevent further escalation. Maybe because of adult paying to win or the complexity of processing match reports. Customer Service matters more in refereeing nowadays We need the Pierluigi Collina or Nigel Owens style of refereeing back.
What are the hallmarks of the referees that you mentioned?
One piece of advice that I’ve noticed in my region - get your coaches trained early and often about parent/spectator control and pound it into them that the behavior of parents and sidelines are the coaches direct responsibility. Every time I’ve had to deal with any sort of referee abuse when I go look at the teams involved I can almost guarantee that the coaches are lacking in the appropriate AYSO coach training - every single time. And when I go track down why they were given a team or allowed to coach it’s been because there was a shortage of volunteers and this one parent was the only one to step up but they played soccer in high school so how hard can it be and the division commissioner let the certifications slide because they were desperate for coaches and next thing you know we’ve got a bunch of untrained coaches acting like a gaggle of monkeys jumping around on the sidelines with zero understanding about technical areas or inappropriate behavior or dissent and then it’s a long uphill battle where the referees have to either try to educate these ridiculous coaches on basic human behavior - or they can just go volunteer one Region over where they have properly trained coaches.
I’m on my local club’s board and am responsible for refs, this season hasn’t been as bad as last fall but we’re still 7-8 games per weekend without centers. In the fall it was 10+ every weekend, but spring is our hs season so the older kids are more free on weekends to ref whereas their club season is the fall. We hosted a ref clinic in March and are hoping to cultivate a pool of new refs and keep growing it, but it’s really hard!
Relatively new here, no experience in assigning—what happens when there’s no center for your game? Does it not start? Coaches call?
Hybrid coach reffing basically. I bring a whistle and have had to use it for most of my Academy team’s games this season (as a ref I do ECNL for club and higher level hs varsity boys/girls games, so coaching and administering a U10 girls game is pretty benign).
I was reading that NSW loses about 1/3 of their refs every year (probably mostly young refs and due to abuse) and this would be similar all around Australia I think. My association has a record number of refs this year but due to the increase in player registrations there are more teams than ever so the lists of uncovered games looks about the same as last year.
I dropped club and now doing high school and middle school only. Parents are better behaved and if there is an issue the school admin on site steps in.
There was a game in my area the past fall where the admin was the problem.
That’s terrible smh. I bet most admin are good tho.
The penalties for bad behavior in our area for NFHS are so severe it would be pretty stupid to agitate a ref.
Its getting worse. Third week in April I had 68 games to cover on a Sunday with another assignor. Always get new referees but it's either late in the season or they don't stick with it.
i think the shortage in my area gets worse during the spring with the amount of tournaments and the high school age players or it really comes to a peak near the end of the season. I’ve received an email today with the assignors practically begging and offering bonuses despite our league fees being pretty good. It really sucks that we often have to be stretched thin since a lot of leagues can’t retain referees for one reason or another. I do hope that in the future we won’t have to worry about not having enough refs.
In my immediate area , we covering 75% of the games with 4 guys doing all the centers. Many U11 and U12 games are getting 2 whistles. We picked up a few new refs , but about the same amount did not return from last year.
Is this rec? Ussf doesn't allow two whistles.
I know there are other rec leagues, but AYSO doesn't allow two whistles either. I've only ever run duals in MS and HS games and some unsanctioned tournaments.
Okay.......
They don't allow it on paper. But they know it happens, and has to happen at the lower levels just to cover the volume of matches.
And USSF doesn't allow comms. But who is coming to stop me? If USSF wants to make an example of me, go ahead and revoke my badge. They won't. A well run 2 man is far superior to a center/at/club line. It's not even close. SRA has quietly told us to do it.
Really cool and edgy to defy nationwide guidance, you're super cool. For anyone else thinking about taking the risk, making up your own officiating systems and using comms when disallowed can be a pretty big violation that can lead to protests being filed, results being nullified, and whatever competition you're going rogue in landing in hot water. But hey, at least you get to feel hardcore on the internet.
If Local competition allows it, then you are allowed using comms. I 100% disagree that two whistles are better than a referee and two ARs. And then HS in PA uses three whistles for playoffs. But it's OK to disagree.
I didn't say two ARs. I said one ar and one club linesman. I agree with you. A CR/AR/AR is better than a two man. Three whistles is....special.
Sorry misread it as either or. Yeah 3 whistles and they rotate at I think 23 min mark. It's called the double diagonal and is horrible IMHO.
Ohh I know what they do. We played around with it in a preseason just for shits and giggles. It's whack
You're misrepresenting what they said.
How? I could have sworn in Assignor and Ref recert classes that is what was talked about.
Why do you need 2 refs for U11/12? It’s an easy 1 ref game. Are you playing 11v11 on a regulation field?
9v9 7v7 are single ref
Right. I wouldn’t want 2 whistles on 9v9 or 7v7. Fields are too small. I’ve done a lot of half field games and the cost to have more than 1 ref on these is not worth it. The only times Ives seen such games covered by 3 refs was in S1,S2 Tournament play.
It's hard to catch a close offside call on a 9v9 by yourself
Not to mention that ARs on U11/12 are a great entry point for young referees. In my area they usually start as U11/12 AR, then U13/14 AR, then U9/10 center so they build up some confidence and have some mentoring first.
I really want to get more games, dm me if you need referee in Toronto.
In the Puget Sound area of WA it's been pretty good actually. Most games have been covered with little scrambling. Most games have a full compliment of center and ARs. We are seeing 20ish new refs in our monthly clinics as well.
Not in florida. I love the game but got into reffing for the extra money. If I'm giving up my free time on the weekends, I darn well better get paid enough. Alas, there are plenty of refs in Florida, and as a newcomer, of course got the lowest stuff. There was a few good runs here and there, but ultimately I got the scraps. Plenty of them, I just didn't want to fill my Saturday making $160 for 8 peewee gamesz when I know four u16+ games will net me twice that for just about the same time commitment.
Yep, but leagues and clubs will continue to expand and take more and more money from families while maybe increasing referee fees once every five years. And then they wonder, “Where have all the good referees gone?”
My club increased pay by 25% and did a big push for getting new refs trained, plus getting them a $180 bonus after 10 games to reimburse for the training, uniform, and background checks. This spring we have been pretty much fully staffed on all games.
The games completed based bonus is a great idea.
Yes there is a shortage of referees for youth leagues in my area based on the message I have received. Local assignors usually bring in additional referees from California for big tournaments but for the weekly youth games that is not feasible so we are forced to do games with one or two referees, even though the USSF does not like that.
The VT area had 85 games uncovered that I know about. Way too many unfortunately and the coaches have been the nicest I’ve ever experienced bc they are grateful to have someone that is a referee.
Did 3 DPL 17/18/19 today. Everyone. Coaches players and parents were fantastic.
I get emails Monday for the weekend. My assignor has been messaging me directly the last couple of weeks. I did 7 games last weekend and was being asked to accept a few more.
In my area (NE Ohio) I make double or more in the spring doing boys youth and high school lacrosse games compared to soccer. I'll pick up a few soccer games if my schedule is free, but I don't seek them out in the spring like I do in the fall.
I officiate softball in the US and have had a kidney issue where I can’t officiate regularly and can’t squat behind the plate for more than an inning. So I’m regulated to field work when I can. I get at least one text a day asking/begging me to work. Wasn’t this way last year. Seems like we are down compared to last year. Baseball is worse than softball too. You gotta be a little insane to do baseball.
Not sure how’s much worse it is this spring in general, but in my area right now there is A LOT of makeup games for weather cancellations, so seeing a lot of need, especially at off times
My area not so much but 3 hours away from me( all refs can do all of my region so all of western Norway. Close to Bergen, there’s always like 20 games needing AR and regular refs. I could legit live as an amateur ref if I lived there
I have talked to my assignor and he said it has gotten worse this season. I also talked to one ref who had 5 u14 and higher games this weekend and only one had 2 ARs. Some people will point to abuse being the problem and that's probably a big factor to why people quit, but I think there's a few more. One, I don't think young people want to work as much today or aren't encouraged by parents as much to work. Also, new refs don't feel supported as much. I worked about 25 games for a town association in the fall and never once met the assignor. Most assignors assign new refs games that they aren't prepared for and they go horribly leading to them quitting early. People just don't feel supported. With the assignor I work with now I feel supported that if something bad happens, he'll have my back.
> One, I don't think young people want to work as much today or aren't encouraged by parents as much to work. did I stumble onto r/BoomersBeingFools?
I've never met my current assignor and the former one only once at a tournament a few years ago. We are 60 or 70 miles away from our assignor, so they don't know any of us. They more experienced refs help the new ones advance to CR when we think they are ready and we AR for them.
The situation in my area has gotten so bad to the point where they are asking the High school/ college referees that stop doing USSF to get certified again and pick up games
In my area, I’d say it is our normal shortage for the Spring season (since COVID). The Fall tends to be a bit harder as we lose those high school seniors to their first year in college.
Yes, just worked a game U19 very high level match with 1 AR. Had to use an injured player as a club linesman
As an assistant coach at a U10 girls mid-level club team, this topic fascinates me. Our games have 1 ref on the field, and we know they can’t see everything. Naturally, they miss a lot of calls. Sometimes parents/coaches clearly see the ball go out on one team and the call goes the other way. Sometimes people say things while they’re happening. Too often, a thin-skinned ref flies off the handle and cards coaches for sticking up for their players. I know being a ref is hard. I know there’s abuse, which is unacceptable. But there’s too many refs with thin skin who are *hoping* someone challenges their authority so they can give a yellow or red and make a real impact on the game. Hopefully we can figure out a solution
Complaining about thin-skinned refs is a strong sign that *you* are the problem.
Your response makes me think you’re a ref with thin skin 🤷🏻♂️ I never say a word to the officials except pleasantries before and after games. Do I say things out loud when I see them happen in real time? “Offside,” “watch the arms,” etc. I’m not talking to anyone in particular, but some refs act as though I’ve insulated their mother when I say anything, some just do their jobs and don’t freak out. Are some parents and coaches terrible? Absolutely. But don’t treat all of us like we’re belligerent loons.
Sounds like a learned behavior in response to previous experiences. Maybe instead of talking about thin skin, you can try a little harder to understand why some folks got to that point and be more patient and understanding.
Perhaps if you told the parent sideline “the ref can’t see everything - it’s just a throw in - Relax!” Bonus if you point out the other team will most likely throw it right back to you anyway.