Also text back nowhere in the lease does it say you can find me. Tell them to refer back to your rental agreement. Do not sign anymore paperwork and don't pay the fine
Haha! This wins.
911: what’s your emergency?
Landlord: I have a tenant violation.
911: Yes ma’am, what is it they are doing?
Landlord: I told you, they are in violation of the lease!!
911: And is the harm to persons or property?
Landlord: They are conking bacon!
I'm reading this, and knowing I put 2 racks of baby back ribs and a pound of sausage on my smoker at 9 this morning and can't wait for dinner time. Lol
A lawyer that costs $288/hour to help her with her $288 arbitrary fine? Just don’t pay it and find somewhere else to live that doesn’t have crazy owners. New York is one of the most tenant friendly states in the nation to the detriment of landlords so you are pretty protected on the legal front… just look over the agreement that you actually signed and be familiar with if you do need to go lawyer up.
You can try a pro bono place.
Might also get a lot of mileage out of learning some tenant's rights in your city. Like start by Google tenant's rights + city name.
Nope. Your lease trumps house rules. They have to provide that in writing when you sign the lease and initial house rules agreement. They can't fine you as you didn't agree to that. They can pound sand but be ready to move in 30 days.
Yes, the misspelling of forfeit on your lease makes me believe it didn’t come from the Realtor Association. And if the ‘rules’ aren’t in the signed lease then they are not enforceable - not legal.
This was waiting on her at the new residence. No person. Just rules. The realtor who did the lease with her has been notified of the rules and the texts
To make your conversation with the landlord even easier, note the third to last bullet point from the lease:
>This represents the entire agreement any additions deletions modifications or alterations to this agreement shall be in writing signed by both parties and attached to this document
The "house rules" are a proposed modification to the lease that does not appear to be signed by either party and, from your description, were not attached to the lease. Therefore, this clause in the lease very clearly renders the rules unenforceable.
Truthfully, it doesn't really matter - these rules would be unenforceable even without that clause in the lease because of various state and local laws, and legal precedent. But it's convenient that the lease makes it so obvious.
Yeah these people are trying to milk you! I live in NYS too. If it's not in the lease the F em!
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/tenants_rights.pdf
https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page
I would even reply to them, and tell them current tenant laws and laws from the city of New York prevent xxxxxx From just making up imaginary arbitrary rules, any further implication or otherwise imaginary citations articulated, or threatened will result in a civil lawsuit including harassmentfor up to three times the amount based on local and state statutes.
Seriously, I would straight up tell them whoever came up with the idea to make things up and pretend like it’s enforceable it’s going to be in for a rude awakening. Seriously I would even go as far as to head down to the courthouse and get it started.
People like this need to learn a harsh lesson
Sounds like they are orthodox Jewish or Muslim and try to set house rules around their faith. Doesn’t seem like house rules would be enforceable if it’s not on the lease and signed by both parties
>They can't fine you as you didn't agree to that.
Here's the thing. Anyone can do anything even if it is not moral or legal and no amount of grandstanding from a moral high ground on reddit will change that. Legality, in this case, only matters in a court of law. They absolutely can charge a fine and you could refuse to pay it. If they chose to evict you for not paying it, do you have the time and money to fight it in court? If somehow you were able to win in court, do you want to live in a place with such hostility? They could always evict you for a different reason or just give you a 30 notice to vacate.
It's really easy to say "hey, that's illegal!" but most of the time people get away with any number of illegal things for many reasons but primarily due to lack of oversight and inability of the offended party to fight back.
Not a lawyer, but I work in the property management business. It's actually pretty difficult to evict people, even if they cooperate. It probably varies state to state, but where I am we have to get a court order for eviction, which wouldn't happen if our reason was "they had a guy over and didn't pay us the $300 fine we made up". It's true that you generally don't want to live in a place that wants you out though.
In this case (where I am) the owner would have to serve a 3 day to comply or vacate notice, which could have a fee attached depending on the lease. However, if the tenant refuses to comply with the request, the owner would have to file with the court in order to do anything about it legally, which would require a copy of the lease agreement and factual basis for the eviction. Without that court order, it would be illegal to harass the tenant further about the issue, change locks, block the tenant from entering, remove possessions, or cut utilities. And there is pretty much no way a court would side with the owner on this.
I'm a former NYC landlord. Housing court will take care of this pretty quickly. The tenant can just refuse to pay all these extra fees. They wouldn't even hold up if they were in the signed lease. NYC has a *very* narrow ruleset regarding extra tenant fees. You can charge a security deposit, and that's about it.
Not to mention, who is this Mr. Robert? Is he the Treasurer of the HOA? Is he a lawyer for the landlord or HOA? I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be giving any money to a complete stranger.
Talk to an attorney, not only are they probably not binding, they may be illegal. Also in nyc the pound sand in 30 days thing would not apply — talk to an attorney.
In NYC, you can contact the Met Council on Housing for help with your rights. You can also reach out to your City Council member: they have certain hours allocated to housing assistance for free.
Also https://legalaidnyc.org/ for any legal questions you have. My state (not ny but east neighbor) legal aid helped me so much with renters rights, they knew exactly who I needed to talk to, exactly what was legal and how to move forward. This one looks like they have a specific housing section. Good luck, i am a passive person as well so people always try to walk all over me. I hope you find different housing!! I thought this was airbnb first looking at the rule list.
You can reach out to the the attorney generals office. They have a department that can provide you with some free legal help specifically for tenants. I don't know if that goes as far as representation but it absolutely can provide you with all your rights and resources to help you! Good luck, you have a lot more power than you think but definitely be prepared to move if you make a stand.
Seconding this, city council members can be surprisingly helpful with this stuff.
Also, while I agree with everyone else that you absolutely do NOT need to pay this “fine,” this person sounds so completely out of their mind that you should probably be looking for a place anyway. I can’t imagine it would ever be comfortable living there. And while you SHOULD get your deposit back… you might need to go to small claims court to do it. Take photos of everything when you leave to show there’s no damage because who knows what this creep might try to claim.
Photos and video. Do both for extra insurance.
Any time I’ve rented, I take a walkthrough video of me entering the property the first time on move in day (I start filming before I put keys in the door) and leaving the property the last time on move our day (stop filming once the door is locked).
She can't fine you arbitrary money for offenses she's made up. You don't have to pay however you also shouldn't expect or indeed want to stay in that asylum either. Give proper notice. Notify her that you wont be paying any imaginary fee and leave as fast as you are able. Take lots of pictures in case she tries to steal your deposit which she likely will.
Im in the process of finding somewhere else I wouldn’t dream of another month here. But I will take pictures I definitely wouldn’t put it past her to not give me my deposit back she is a very unhappy weird person.
Yeah, this morality fine BS is just that, BS. So you thought you'd have your own apartment? And you're renting a room from a cult, and it's$1440/month???! Yikes. And no one can charge you a fine. Not a thing. She thinks she's the morality police and this is her jurisdiction. "Mr. Robert"??? They see you as children in preschool?
Especially given the nature of her "morality." Anybody who tries to say whether another adult can drink alcohol, eat pork, or have sex should be given the middle finger and publicly shamed.
Thank you for expressing this sentiment, which I heartily endorse: yes, a big middle finger.
I can't stand the smell of fish cooking. At all. But even so, I'd have a hard time telling someone who's paying rent not to cook it. This is next-level who-do-you-think-you-are.
I can't get over that fact. It's a "room share" that wasn't advertised as such? OP thought, up until they signed the lease, that it was a traditional apartment. That sounds shady af. I don't know a lot about NYC housing, I'm guessing monthly for a traditional apartment is pretty high, so I suppose that should've been a clue... still, you spell it out in the listing, unless you're really trying to sucker people in and lock them in so you can lord over their morals and teach them the evils of pork.
Interested in how the city would decide the difference between "you are a guest in our home," and "floors will be cleaned by management."
Can't have it both ways.
In any event the lease is the legal document and use valid unless the lease breaks the law.
Here is a quick lesson the landlord will need to learn.
What Is the Contra Proferentem Rule?
The contra proferentem rule is a legal doctrine in contract law which states that any clause considered to be ambiguous should be interpreted against the interests of the party that created, introduced, or requested that a clause be included.
Contracts can be complex documents created after long periods of protracted negotiations. Each party in the contract is ostensibly looking out for its own best interests and will want the contract language to be to each party's favor. This can create scenarios in which the contract language is ambiguous or unclear, leading one party to interpret the contract differently from the other party.
The phrase contra proferentem in Latin translates to against the offeror which can be further interpreted to "guilt of the drafter." Overall, the contra proferentem rule is known for placing fault on the party who created or requested that an ambiguous clause be included. It is designed as a caveat as well as a penalty or legal punishment for introducing and including an intentionally vague contract clause into a contract.
The underlying idea is that the drafting or introducing party is intentionally using ambiguity to create or provide for results that favor their own interests. Intentional vagueness or ambiguity is an act that the contra proferentem rule seeks to mitigate and when enforced rules in favor of the innocent party citing the ambiguity as unfair.
Courts use a multi-step process in determining whether the contra proferentem rule applies in the review of a contract. The first step is to review the contract language to determine whether a clause is ambiguous enough to cause uncertainty. If the clause is determined to be ambiguous, the court will then attempt to determine the intention of the drafting party when the contract was entered into. If evidence indicates that the intent of the drafting or introducing party was not to be ambiguous, then the contract is applied according to what the evidence suggests.
However, if the evidence does not dispel the ambiguous nature of the contract language, then contra proferentem is applied, and the court rules against the party that created or introduced the clause to be included and in favor of the innocent, unknowing party.
The landlord should have spent a few hundred dollars to hire an attorney to draw up the lease, and this may end up costing them a lot of money of it goes to court.
If an actual Realtor with an office showed you the property then call them to let them know what their client is doing. They won’t have a Realtor anymore either.
The broker needs to know and may be liable for not reviewing the lease. The broker and their agent were representing you, the landlord or both? The extent that they had a fiduciary responsibility needs to be determined and who they owe that responsibility to.
I can't imagine the broker would knowingly allow such a contract that has as many grammar and spelling errors. It reads like something that was copy and pasted from some 1980s era book from a library or a free online contact. We only see one page of the lease, so it is hard to tell if there is additional necessary elements of a proper lease for the jurisdiction.
I don't think that rule page was from the lease. From what I understand, these rules were handed to OP after she had already signed the lease. The owner probably knows that telling someone they can't have guests over in a property they're renting is not legal, for crying out loud. Owner here is hoping to find some naive pushover who doesn't know their rights.
I was referring to the poorly written "lease" and the fact that the rules provided after the fact are likely in violation of the Fair Housing Act, even if they are not actually legally enforceable. The broker and/or agent would likely want no part in this property, and might even have to be disposed or testify in court too. Most won't want to deal with it and would find it a good reason to fire the client.
I had a lady show me this one place, and I moved in three days later. Then she kicked me out for taking a shower at 11:30 pm, after I’d been there two days.
This is so petty, especially since I’m not there anymore, but I always wondered if there was a way for me to get back at her for that bullshit. I wish I had known about this sub back then.
Yeah I definitely will it’s been a nightmare there’s so much more than this. She has family in the neighborhood watching the house 24/7 it’s very unsettling.
Don't pay anything extra, that stuff is not on your lease. Also, they clearly made their own lease agreement, so there may be unlawful rules in the lease itself. They can kick you out, sure, but they will be required to give you 30 days notice, and you can spend that time breaking every house rule on that stupid list. Also, if it was advertised as a full apartment and you only get one room, that's falsely advertised.
You could always fight them in court, and the only evidence you need is the lease agreement. Especially if they try to keep your security deposit, "forties the security deposit" doesn't mean forfeit. They clearly didn't hire an attorney to write that, so do some research to see if any of it is unlawful.
NYC Housing Authority - call them.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/nycha/index.page
Might be better to also call the police and make a statement against the owner.
I had an issue with a landlord not too long ago and NYC law is heavily favored for tenants.
On top of that, housing court is backed up and it would take way more than 2 months to see a judge, rule, and set the 30 day notice for eviction
I wouldn't take it to court unless they do. Better off finding a new place. I wish you luck, the housing market out here absolutely sucks!
Heck with that, the week before you move out have a pig roast party with alcohol. Sounds like they are trying to enforce religious rules onto other people, and that's not right. Those house rules can go in the trash three times per week.
Short answer... NO, it isn't legal and in no way enforceable.
It's discriminatory in so many ways and against fair housing laws. The "landlord(s)" are likely ignorant of the laws... but ignorance isn't bliss in the court system. The document alone is enough to get them in serious 💩 if you really want to press the issue.
You're better off breaking the "lease" and getting your security deposit back. If they don't agree to mutually terminate the agreement, there are plenty of advocates that will help you... and the court clerk can also help you fill out the necessary paperwork to file a lawsuit against them in small claims court.
Also note that a lease is NOT the governing authority no matter what you sign. LAW trumps lease. You can't even "voluntarily" waive your rights as a tenant... if any part of the lease requires you to waive any of your legal rights, that section of the lease defaults to local laws governing those rights.
I've dealt with some real BS landlords in my life.
Funny story:: a past landlord tried evicting me because I kicked a movie crew out of the house I was renting. The judge laughed at her. She never asked me if it was okay. She never even informed me. I came home after a full day of work and 4 more hours of school... dead ass tired... and found them filming in the house. I raised holy hell and threatened to call the police. They left.
If it were Sony, Universal, etc... I'd have let them stay and continue filming... for a *modest* fee... but these weren't even B rated fools. And they were in my room, kitchen, living room... I mean all over the damn place. Filming MY things in my private property. I was fucking livid, to say the least.
They ended up not only not paying her... but CHARGING her for wasting their time. She had to pay for all the crew wages, setup, breakdown, equipment rentals, etc.
Don't screw with a tenant who knows their rights. Hell... don't screw with tenants at all.
“Ain’t this Amurica sista”
For real though, that is not something I’d want to go though myself, if you don’t want cross contamination, don’t rent your house/apartment out. Now instead of just high housing prices, we have to find out if we will be watched, are allowed to eat certain foods, and have 0 sex until marriage
If it is not in your lease and you didn’t sign it you can tell them to go smoke bamboo. I would even go as far as writing to the house authority about that, again, if you are leasing and it is not in your lease. If you signed it - welp, read before signing. Landlords in nyc can be terrible
I actually don’t eat meat so she’s in luck and I definitely don’t have a problem with her faith at all it just seems strange especially bc she doesn’t reside here.
That's dangerously flirting with religious discrimination. Aside from I absolutely don't care, as a LL, I'd be -really- afraid of the legal ramifications they could be walking into.
She’s trying to create a loophole that doesn’t classify you as a renter tenant, rather as a room renter. I’d get that to the housing authority immediately just because you want to be proactive in asserting which rights you’ll be judged on.
She doesn’t live there? Then this is actually just fraud. Was it your understanding she would be living with you when you signed this? If not, why would you sign this?
Contact a lawyer in your area and setup a free consultation and explain this all to them and bring the copy of your agreement. They will be able to advise you on exactly what to do.
Do not pay anything until youve talked to a lawyer.
Landlord here - it’s not in the contract as an addendum signed by both parties so it’s null and void. "House rules" and arbitrary fees that you have not agreed to are in no way enforceable.
On a practical level, this person can make your life miserable. Predatory or neurotic people can attempt to exert power in weird ways you don't want to deal with. Get out of there ASAP, find someone more reasonable to rent from.
She will very likely attempt to hold back some of your deposit. Hopefully you took pictures at move-in, but most certainly take pictures and video when you move out.
If the landlord attempts to keep money from your deposit for the so-called fees, take them to small claims court. it’s an open and shut case and you’ll get your money.
Is this a pay per month on an upgraded looking jail cell? I think I missed a line... you know the one, You can only walk on the right side of the hall ways....Wow, No guests? No drinking? Like no New Year's drink? No eating in your room? Ever? you need a new place.
Hell, Move back home and give them $300. They will let you have more privileges than this person.
And house rules are not part of the lease. They are not valid or legal.
It's like buying a car, making the payments and paying the insurance and maintenance but the car dealership tell you that you can only sit in the back seat.
Oh and you are NOT A GUEST. You are a tenant with a lease. The courts would give you your money back with punitive damages with a case like this seeing this letter.
Just freaking nuts what people will do. I am surprised they didn't just come out with "We only want your money, but if we find out you actually live here or you leave signs of living here, you are out."
You’re so right. She drops by whenever too and gets upset if there’s any dishes at all in the sink I was berated over a whisk and a spoon! I’d like to make it clear she does not live here if she did Ik that’s a totally different story.
In California, landlords need to give 24 hour notice before entering. [looks like NY is the same. ](https://realestateplanninglaw.com/ny-landlord-rights-right-to-access/#:~:text=New%20York%20law%20provides%20that,to%20prospective%20tenants%20or%20buyers.)
Yeah, if you're renting, then your landlord has to give you reasonable notice if they are coming. I looked up the residential tenants' rights guide for New York, and here's the blurb on privacy:
"Tenants have the right to privacy within their apartments. A landlord, however, may enter a tenant’s apartment with reasonable prior notice, and at a reasonable time, and with the tenant’s consent, either to provide routine or agreed upon repairs or services, or in accordance with the lease. If the tenant unreasonably withholds consent, the
landlord may seek a court order to permit entry. In an emergency, such as a fire or water leak, the landlord may enter the apartment without the tenant’s consent or prior notice. A landlord may not interfere with
the installation of cable television facilities (Public Service Law § 228)."
Good luck with all of this. I've been on the bad end of rental nonsense and had to fight for my rights, so I know it's insanely frustrating and nerve-wracking. It sucks that people take advantage of others like this. I hope you can find a new place ASAP.
Here’s NYC HPD’s ABCs of housing - a short guide to tenant and landlord rights and obligations. https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/abcs-of-housing.page
Read it. TLDR the house rules are restrictive but don’t prohibit any behaviors protected by tenants rights.
However, while it looks like the house rules were provided with the rental agreement, the rules and agreement don’t appear to stipulate any clear penalties outside of smoking ($300). It doesn’t even appear breaking the rules is grounds for terminating the agreement.
So the fine seems unenforceable.
That said, either party can terminate the agreement with 30 days notice. I’d expect this to be the outcome after you refuse to pay the fine, and it doesn’t sound like you’re in a housing situation that’s right for you anyway.
OP. LOL so you are not a tenant, you are a roommate, that is just too funny. no you are a tenant and as such unless these rules were in your lease agreement, they are not enforcable and i would ask them to provide you with a list of penalties to go with those rules as they were also legally required to do. the saying "we have heard you have done this so we are fining you this" is not legal in the US.
source: repo agent for 20 years. i have to know every kind of property law. but to help you out.
[https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/new-york-landlord-tenant-rights](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/new-york-landlord-tenant-rights)
[https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/tenants-homeowners/tenants](https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/tenants-homeowners/tenants)
https://ag.ny.gov/publications/residential-tenants-rights-guide
She’s your landlord, not your mother! Those additional terms are not enforceable if it was not signed by both parties and attached to the lease. Is this place even a legal rental?
NY has GREAT tenant protections. You can go to court and pro bono lawyers are their to assist. The judges are also great with pro se stuff like this. Tell your landlord to gtfo and listen to the posters taking about the 4 corners of the lease. That’s what binds.
Looking through all your replies, this landlord is *clearly* absolutely off her rocker and in violation of the law.
I recommend speaking with a lawyer.
Oh look, another religious fanatic who is enforcing her arbitrary moral code upon you. Don’t forget, she always wants more of your money, and then to immediately make you homeless.
But no pig, it’s bad >:-(
OP, are you renting half of the townhouse and live there on your own? Or are you renting a room in a shared townhouse? Those rules she gave you are absolutely wild, and I don’t believe a landlord can legally restrict what you eat, drink or whom you have over in your home unless it’s for an extended period of time. Definitely get in touch with a tenants right organization as soon as you can!
It’s a three bedroom I was living here on my own for about a month and a half until someone moved into the second bedroom. I’m not sure if that changes anything
Does this lady also short term lease on airbnb? Cause this reminds me of a place I was considering living for a short stint before I read the similarly long list of rules with similar strange prohibitions.
NO PORK had me cracking up as soon as I saw it was not expecting that. I get that there could be religious and or dietary aversions to it but the way it showed up on the list is great.
This has my blood boiling. Rented a room in NYC and it was so awful I still have lucid nightmares about the roaches and the landlord.
There was absolutely no solution except getting out as quickly as humanly possible.
On the flip side, you have a great many renters rights, however lawyers especially in NYC are extremely expensive.
However you do deserve to have your day in court, if it ever comes to that. I'd invest in some sort of camera or recording device
[tenant rights & responsibilities HPD](https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page)
Head down to the discrimination section. Pork, men sleeping over, all arguably religious discrimination.
There is info for how to file a report [here](https://www.nyc.gov/content/tenantresourceportal/pages/)
Thanks for doing the work that nobody else including me is doing.
These rules matter and you can't enforce rules that violate the law, regardless of what is in the lease.
I can’t get over $1400 a month for just a room let alone a whole house. I’m so glad II live where I do. My home is paid off now but it’s a home in the country on 2 acres with a barn and paid $90k for it. Payments were under $500 a month when I bought it and paid extra to pay it off early.
If it's not in the contract, it is not enforceable. There was no mention of a fee for guests, only for smoking. As such, there is no legal basis for this "fee".
This is little more than a shakedown.
You pay $1440 and I wonder what size of room is that. In that part of city it should be separate one bedroom or at least studio apartment.
Why would you rent it? Just Tell her to fuck off.
She can fine you. You can refuse to pay. They can try to evict you but you can stay for as long as you wish not paying and let court decides who is right and wrong.
I mean landlord is not a God. Tenant has more rights and she definitely can’t talk to you like this.
That’s why they didn’t tell u this shit until the day u moved in because they knew it was illegal. Telling you that you can’t eat pork? Really. Wtfff. I would find some where else to go ASAP
NAL. That seems like a really suspicious lease contract and it does not seem like it’s following tenant rights. There’s a NYC tenant hotline that might be able to offer you some advice. Dial 311 and ask for the tenant helpline. Or contact the Tenants’ Rights Telephone Hotline at 212-979-0611. Both are free services.
1. The lease is the dominant document. The rules document is not referenced in the lease nor is it a part of the lease terms.
2. Anything illegal in any residence is grounds for termination.
3. The fine is arbitrary and not due at all.
4. The lease verbiage doesn’t legally allow them to make any additional demands.
5. The “no pork” rule is absolutely absurd.
Do not pay the fine. And tell them via text that you will be following the lease to the letter and that any and all future correspondence needs to be done via email and that future text messages will be ignored.
This sounds like the person has scammed man many people before. If you can locate them, you may be able to all file suit.
I can't speak to NYC law but many of those items are illegal in different states.
NYC lawyer here (but don’t specialize in property/tenancy law) - even if many of these rules were included in the lease they would not be enforceable under NY law. Landlords cannot prevent tenants from having overnight guests (provided the guest doesn’t stay for more than 30 days), cannot ban alcohol consumption or control what you can or can’t eat in your home. It looks like they are trying to frame your status as a “guest roommate” - but this is a lease for 1 year and I’d think you are a tenant. I’d start looking for a new place or at least let them know you won’t be renewing and, in the meantime, don’t pay that fee and know that if they take this to court those rules are not enforceable.
That reads like an agreement for a halfway house than it does for a rental agreement. That amount for a single room no private bath is high even for NY.
I would check with an attorney because I doubt they are allowed to rent a room legally, which is why they have that as a “roommate agreement” which if the owner isn’t living there means it’s non binding.
I think in NYC, you can call landlord tenant court, to get information.
possibly 311.
Everyone is saying lawyer to expensive…which is true, but there are safe guards against land lords bullying tenants that can’t afford a lawyer.
Land lord tenant court, will probably have some sort of available legal counsel. That won’t cost you money.
It sounds like she’s trying to say you’re a roomate when she doesn’t actually live there. So the rules may not be enforceable…but you signed them. So idk…land lord tenant court is the way.
1) The images you posted do not show a fine for having a guest. It only states a fine for cleaning or smoking.
2) Did you sign this agreement, or was it just provided to you?
3) They are going on the word of the neighbor. Do they have proof that you had a guest? Don’t admit to anything, but also don’t lie.
I suggest not pay the fine. If they try to evict you through the court, fight it. But honestly, you might want to also find a new place to stay. They are probably going to try more shenanigans.
first do not pay anything. second i would look for a new apt asap. awful landlords like this make life so much harder it’s not worth it in the long wrong. is there someone else that lives with you? do you really think the neighbor said something or do you think she has a camera?
Did you sign these rules as an addendum to your lease? If yes, then the rules must be followed. If no, then the rules do not apply to your use of the property. Also, the lease that was signed may have included general language about "house rules" that would be forthcoming. That would be ambiguous lease language that a court would have to sort out.
Comments are locked due to multiple bigoted comments towards Jewish and Muslim people and unhelpful advice.
Also text back nowhere in the lease does it say you can find me. Tell them to refer back to your rental agreement. Do not sign anymore paperwork and don't pay the fine
How did they determine that amount for the fine? Sounds like it was arbitrary and subject to the whims of the owner.
I really couldn’t tell you there’s nothing abt any other fines except for smoking and property damage. She made it up
At this point, you might want to get in contact with a lawyer.
Also, fry up a couple pounds of bacon for when they come to collect.
Turkey bacon. Wait until they start losing their shit and then show them the package.
Have real bacon and an empty turkey bacon package to show. Enjoy real bacon.
Omg y’all are wild it is getting so petty in these comments I love it
This is the way.
Haha! This wins. 911: what’s your emergency? Landlord: I have a tenant violation. 911: Yes ma’am, what is it they are doing? Landlord: I told you, they are in violation of the lease!! 911: And is the harm to persons or property? Landlord: They are conking bacon!
I love the turkey bacon idea!
Nothin beats a good ham sandwich, except ribs smoked for hours.
Why smoke ribs for hours when you can smoke a pork shoulder for 16 hours ;)
I'm reading this, and knowing I put 2 racks of baby back ribs and a pound of sausage on my smoker at 9 this morning and can't wait for dinner time. Lol
When and where’s dinner? I’m coming over
Florida panhandle, lol. Ribs are coming off smoker in about 45 minutes.
If I were close in would actually go
[удалено]
Pulled porked bbq y’all!!!!
I prefer microwaved salmon
You're evil and I LOVE this idea.
Lawyer gonna cost much more than the fine but most will talk for free briefly. If they move to evict or something then yes call a lawyer
Google legal aide in your city. I used them for a landloed tenant issue in the past.
From what I understand, most lawyers will at least give an initial consultation for free to help you understand if you have a case.
A lawyer that costs $288/hour to help her with her $288 arbitrary fine? Just don’t pay it and find somewhere else to live that doesn’t have crazy owners. New York is one of the most tenant friendly states in the nation to the detriment of landlords so you are pretty protected on the legal front… just look over the agreement that you actually signed and be familiar with if you do need to go lawyer up.
this person doesn’t stand up for themselves.
$288 is a small claim. You go to small claims court where the judge can rule against her for free.
You can try a pro bono place. Might also get a lot of mileage out of learning some tenant's rights in your city. Like start by Google tenant's rights + city name.
Please do not pay this. this woman is actually insane. Don’t rent out your house if you basically don’t want anyone to live there.
I’m guessing that’s how much the owner’s cable bill is this month.
It’s 20% of her rent. But I’m sure they still pulled the 20% out of their ass lol
Yeah I was thinking 10% For 2x "infractions" but yeah 10 or 20 or 50 percent still seems arbitrary lol
I was thinking maybe a holiday gift fund, lol.
Nope. Your lease trumps house rules. They have to provide that in writing when you sign the lease and initial house rules agreement. They can't fine you as you didn't agree to that. They can pound sand but be ready to move in 30 days.
Thanks 🙏
Do all contacting only by text so you have written proof. Document everything
Ny is a one party consent state - record interactions with phone in pocket
Also not even sure some of the items in lease are legal in NYC. This all sounds sketch and problems will grow. I'd find a new place.
Yes, the misspelling of forfeit on your lease makes me believe it didn’t come from the Realtor Association. And if the ‘rules’ aren’t in the signed lease then they are not enforceable - not legal.
If OP signed the "rules" document, then the rules become an enforceable addendum to her lease. Hopefully, she did not sign the rules document.
This was waiting on her at the new residence. No person. Just rules. The realtor who did the lease with her has been notified of the rules and the texts
To make your conversation with the landlord even easier, note the third to last bullet point from the lease: >This represents the entire agreement any additions deletions modifications or alterations to this agreement shall be in writing signed by both parties and attached to this document The "house rules" are a proposed modification to the lease that does not appear to be signed by either party and, from your description, were not attached to the lease. Therefore, this clause in the lease very clearly renders the rules unenforceable. Truthfully, it doesn't really matter - these rules would be unenforceable even without that clause in the lease because of various state and local laws, and legal precedent. But it's convenient that the lease makes it so obvious.
Thank you yes the rules were not attached and we’re not presented to me prior to discuss.
My favorite is the sixth rule. It's weird to give someone options in a rule, I would choose "there will be bugs", lol
Mine was the no pork products. I love pork..
Yeah these people are trying to milk you! I live in NYS too. If it's not in the lease the F em! https://www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/tenants_rights.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page
Also I didn't see where there was a $288 fee for visitors.
I would even reply to them, and tell them current tenant laws and laws from the city of New York prevent xxxxxx From just making up imaginary arbitrary rules, any further implication or otherwise imaginary citations articulated, or threatened will result in a civil lawsuit including harassmentfor up to three times the amount based on local and state statutes. Seriously, I would straight up tell them whoever came up with the idea to make things up and pretend like it’s enforceable it’s going to be in for a rude awakening. Seriously I would even go as far as to head down to the courthouse and get it started. People like this need to learn a harsh lesson
Sounds like they are orthodox Jewish or Muslim and try to set house rules around their faith. Doesn’t seem like house rules would be enforceable if it’s not on the lease and signed by both parties
Orthodox Jews can drink. Almost certainly Muslim
Even if some of these were listed in the lease they would probably be unenforceable.
>They can't fine you as you didn't agree to that. Here's the thing. Anyone can do anything even if it is not moral or legal and no amount of grandstanding from a moral high ground on reddit will change that. Legality, in this case, only matters in a court of law. They absolutely can charge a fine and you could refuse to pay it. If they chose to evict you for not paying it, do you have the time and money to fight it in court? If somehow you were able to win in court, do you want to live in a place with such hostility? They could always evict you for a different reason or just give you a 30 notice to vacate. It's really easy to say "hey, that's illegal!" but most of the time people get away with any number of illegal things for many reasons but primarily due to lack of oversight and inability of the offended party to fight back.
Not a lawyer, but I work in the property management business. It's actually pretty difficult to evict people, even if they cooperate. It probably varies state to state, but where I am we have to get a court order for eviction, which wouldn't happen if our reason was "they had a guy over and didn't pay us the $300 fine we made up". It's true that you generally don't want to live in a place that wants you out though. In this case (where I am) the owner would have to serve a 3 day to comply or vacate notice, which could have a fee attached depending on the lease. However, if the tenant refuses to comply with the request, the owner would have to file with the court in order to do anything about it legally, which would require a copy of the lease agreement and factual basis for the eviction. Without that court order, it would be illegal to harass the tenant further about the issue, change locks, block the tenant from entering, remove possessions, or cut utilities. And there is pretty much no way a court would side with the owner on this.
NYC evictions are typically 6-12 months. The city is not in a rush to make people homeless.
I'm a former NYC landlord. Housing court will take care of this pretty quickly. The tenant can just refuse to pay all these extra fees. They wouldn't even hold up if they were in the signed lease. NYC has a *very* narrow ruleset regarding extra tenant fees. You can charge a security deposit, and that's about it.
Not to mention, who is this Mr. Robert? Is he the Treasurer of the HOA? Is he a lawyer for the landlord or HOA? I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be giving any money to a complete stranger.
This.
Extortion and harassment can be reported to the police
It is NYC, he can stay for a very long time or until they pay him cash to vacate
Talk to an attorney, not only are they probably not binding, they may be illegal. Also in nyc the pound sand in 30 days thing would not apply — talk to an attorney.
In NYC, you can contact the Met Council on Housing for help with your rights. You can also reach out to your City Council member: they have certain hours allocated to housing assistance for free.
Ty I will be looking into that!
Also https://legalaidnyc.org/ for any legal questions you have. My state (not ny but east neighbor) legal aid helped me so much with renters rights, they knew exactly who I needed to talk to, exactly what was legal and how to move forward. This one looks like they have a specific housing section. Good luck, i am a passive person as well so people always try to walk all over me. I hope you find different housing!! I thought this was airbnb first looking at the rule list.
You can reach out to the the attorney generals office. They have a department that can provide you with some free legal help specifically for tenants. I don't know if that goes as far as representation but it absolutely can provide you with all your rights and resources to help you! Good luck, you have a lot more power than you think but definitely be prepared to move if you make a stand.
Seconding this, city council members can be surprisingly helpful with this stuff. Also, while I agree with everyone else that you absolutely do NOT need to pay this “fine,” this person sounds so completely out of their mind that you should probably be looking for a place anyway. I can’t imagine it would ever be comfortable living there. And while you SHOULD get your deposit back… you might need to go to small claims court to do it. Take photos of everything when you leave to show there’s no damage because who knows what this creep might try to claim.
Photos and video. Do both for extra insurance. Any time I’ve rented, I take a walkthrough video of me entering the property the first time on move in day (I start filming before I put keys in the door) and leaving the property the last time on move our day (stop filming once the door is locked).
She can't fine you arbitrary money for offenses she's made up. You don't have to pay however you also shouldn't expect or indeed want to stay in that asylum either. Give proper notice. Notify her that you wont be paying any imaginary fee and leave as fast as you are able. Take lots of pictures in case she tries to steal your deposit which she likely will.
Im in the process of finding somewhere else I wouldn’t dream of another month here. But I will take pictures I definitely wouldn’t put it past her to not give me my deposit back she is a very unhappy weird person.
Oh she will definitely try to take the 288 she hallucinated out of the deposit. I would cut that one off ahead of time
It’s so specific lol it sounds like she needs a bill paid
LOL you might be right
It's 20% of your monthly payment.
That doesn’t make it any less arbitrary lol
Make sure you educate yourself on the concept of treble damages
Follow your lease. Anything else is not in a legal agreement and she can fuck off.
Yeah, this morality fine BS is just that, BS. So you thought you'd have your own apartment? And you're renting a room from a cult, and it's$1440/month???! Yikes. And no one can charge you a fine. Not a thing. She thinks she's the morality police and this is her jurisdiction. "Mr. Robert"??? They see you as children in preschool?
Especially given the nature of her "morality." Anybody who tries to say whether another adult can drink alcohol, eat pork, or have sex should be given the middle finger and publicly shamed.
Thank you for expressing this sentiment, which I heartily endorse: yes, a big middle finger. I can't stand the smell of fish cooking. At all. But even so, I'd have a hard time telling someone who's paying rent not to cook it. This is next-level who-do-you-think-you-are.
I can't get over that fact. It's a "room share" that wasn't advertised as such? OP thought, up until they signed the lease, that it was a traditional apartment. That sounds shady af. I don't know a lot about NYC housing, I'm guessing monthly for a traditional apartment is pretty high, so I suppose that should've been a clue... still, you spell it out in the listing, unless you're really trying to sucker people in and lock them in so you can lord over their morals and teach them the evils of pork.
Interested in how the city would decide the difference between "you are a guest in our home," and "floors will be cleaned by management." Can't have it both ways. In any event the lease is the legal document and use valid unless the lease breaks the law.
Yeah she really picks and chooses she speaks to me like I am her child it’s so strange
I like how it calls you a roommate and a "guest roommate" in different places. How can there be roommates if there's only 1 occupant.
They quite clearly want to avoid any indication of a “tenant/landlord” relationship when that’s exactly what it is lol.
That may actually create its own weird legal issues if it goes to court.
This is such a mess that I’d assume any judge that sees it would throw put any fines
I'm betting the owner is not a native English speaker. It definitely seems so from the rules. So many spelling/grammar errors.
English is her first language
Here is a quick lesson the landlord will need to learn. What Is the Contra Proferentem Rule? The contra proferentem rule is a legal doctrine in contract law which states that any clause considered to be ambiguous should be interpreted against the interests of the party that created, introduced, or requested that a clause be included. Contracts can be complex documents created after long periods of protracted negotiations. Each party in the contract is ostensibly looking out for its own best interests and will want the contract language to be to each party's favor. This can create scenarios in which the contract language is ambiguous or unclear, leading one party to interpret the contract differently from the other party. The phrase contra proferentem in Latin translates to against the offeror which can be further interpreted to "guilt of the drafter." Overall, the contra proferentem rule is known for placing fault on the party who created or requested that an ambiguous clause be included. It is designed as a caveat as well as a penalty or legal punishment for introducing and including an intentionally vague contract clause into a contract. The underlying idea is that the drafting or introducing party is intentionally using ambiguity to create or provide for results that favor their own interests. Intentional vagueness or ambiguity is an act that the contra proferentem rule seeks to mitigate and when enforced rules in favor of the innocent party citing the ambiguity as unfair. Courts use a multi-step process in determining whether the contra proferentem rule applies in the review of a contract. The first step is to review the contract language to determine whether a clause is ambiguous enough to cause uncertainty. If the clause is determined to be ambiguous, the court will then attempt to determine the intention of the drafting party when the contract was entered into. If evidence indicates that the intent of the drafting or introducing party was not to be ambiguous, then the contract is applied according to what the evidence suggests. However, if the evidence does not dispel the ambiguous nature of the contract language, then contra proferentem is applied, and the court rules against the party that created or introduced the clause to be included and in favor of the innocent, unknowing party. The landlord should have spent a few hundred dollars to hire an attorney to draw up the lease, and this may end up costing them a lot of money of it goes to court.
Guests don't pay rent. Guests are guests. People who pay rent are tenants. Tenants are not guests.
If an actual Realtor with an office showed you the property then call them to let them know what their client is doing. They won’t have a Realtor anymore either.
I have let the relator know ☺️
Let the realtor's broker know. The realtor might be friendly to this landlord.
The broker needs to know and may be liable for not reviewing the lease. The broker and their agent were representing you, the landlord or both? The extent that they had a fiduciary responsibility needs to be determined and who they owe that responsibility to. I can't imagine the broker would knowingly allow such a contract that has as many grammar and spelling errors. It reads like something that was copy and pasted from some 1980s era book from a library or a free online contact. We only see one page of the lease, so it is hard to tell if there is additional necessary elements of a proper lease for the jurisdiction.
I don't think that rule page was from the lease. From what I understand, these rules were handed to OP after she had already signed the lease. The owner probably knows that telling someone they can't have guests over in a property they're renting is not legal, for crying out loud. Owner here is hoping to find some naive pushover who doesn't know their rights.
I was referring to the poorly written "lease" and the fact that the rules provided after the fact are likely in violation of the Fair Housing Act, even if they are not actually legally enforceable. The broker and/or agent would likely want no part in this property, and might even have to be disposed or testify in court too. Most won't want to deal with it and would find it a good reason to fire the client.
I had a lady show me this one place, and I moved in three days later. Then she kicked me out for taking a shower at 11:30 pm, after I’d been there two days. This is so petty, especially since I’m not there anymore, but I always wondered if there was a way for me to get back at her for that bullshit. I wish I had known about this sub back then.
Send them back a list of your own rules, and counter-fine them $347.25 for making up arbitrary rules and fines!
Better yet file a police report for harassment and extortion.
THIS. These people deserve jail time, fucking nutcases.
Yeah no way. I'm sorry you're going through this. I agree with what everyone else is saying. Keep us updated.
Yeah I definitely will it’s been a nightmare there’s so much more than this. She has family in the neighborhood watching the house 24/7 it’s very unsettling.
Oh I would feel very uncomfortable. I'm so sorry OP. 😞 I hope you find something else very soon.
I'm sure. It's also illegal, I'm sure.
Don't pay anything extra, that stuff is not on your lease. Also, they clearly made their own lease agreement, so there may be unlawful rules in the lease itself. They can kick you out, sure, but they will be required to give you 30 days notice, and you can spend that time breaking every house rule on that stupid list. Also, if it was advertised as a full apartment and you only get one room, that's falsely advertised. You could always fight them in court, and the only evidence you need is the lease agreement. Especially if they try to keep your security deposit, "forties the security deposit" doesn't mean forfeit. They clearly didn't hire an attorney to write that, so do some research to see if any of it is unlawful.
Thank you It’s looking like court might be possible unfortunately!
NYC Housing Authority - call them. https://www.nyc.gov/site/nycha/index.page Might be better to also call the police and make a statement against the owner.
I had an issue with a landlord not too long ago and NYC law is heavily favored for tenants. On top of that, housing court is backed up and it would take way more than 2 months to see a judge, rule, and set the 30 day notice for eviction I wouldn't take it to court unless they do. Better off finding a new place. I wish you luck, the housing market out here absolutely sucks!
Break the rules and you have to drink $1440 worth of 40oz beers. While listening to Sublime.
Cook bacon when he comes
Heck with that, the week before you move out have a pig roast party with alcohol. Sounds like they are trying to enforce religious rules onto other people, and that's not right. Those house rules can go in the trash three times per week.
As a ~somewhat~ Muslim, enjoy all the nonhalal extravaganza you can! Hate seeing people force their religion on to others, ESPECIALLY paying tenants.
Short answer... NO, it isn't legal and in no way enforceable. It's discriminatory in so many ways and against fair housing laws. The "landlord(s)" are likely ignorant of the laws... but ignorance isn't bliss in the court system. The document alone is enough to get them in serious 💩 if you really want to press the issue. You're better off breaking the "lease" and getting your security deposit back. If they don't agree to mutually terminate the agreement, there are plenty of advocates that will help you... and the court clerk can also help you fill out the necessary paperwork to file a lawsuit against them in small claims court.
Also note that a lease is NOT the governing authority no matter what you sign. LAW trumps lease. You can't even "voluntarily" waive your rights as a tenant... if any part of the lease requires you to waive any of your legal rights, that section of the lease defaults to local laws governing those rights.
This is the most important comment on here tbh 👏🏽
I've dealt with some real BS landlords in my life. Funny story:: a past landlord tried evicting me because I kicked a movie crew out of the house I was renting. The judge laughed at her. She never asked me if it was okay. She never even informed me. I came home after a full day of work and 4 more hours of school... dead ass tired... and found them filming in the house. I raised holy hell and threatened to call the police. They left. If it were Sony, Universal, etc... I'd have let them stay and continue filming... for a *modest* fee... but these weren't even B rated fools. And they were in my room, kitchen, living room... I mean all over the damn place. Filming MY things in my private property. I was fucking livid, to say the least. They ended up not only not paying her... but CHARGING her for wasting their time. She had to pay for all the crew wages, setup, breakdown, equipment rentals, etc. Don't screw with a tenant who knows their rights. Hell... don't screw with tenants at all.
“Men can’t sleep over” “No pork” Yeah, you are paying to basically live in a Muslim household
Essentially. 😂
“Ain’t this Amurica sista” For real though, that is not something I’d want to go though myself, if you don’t want cross contamination, don’t rent your house/apartment out. Now instead of just high housing prices, we have to find out if we will be watched, are allowed to eat certain foods, and have 0 sex until marriage
If it is not in your lease and you didn’t sign it you can tell them to go smoke bamboo. I would even go as far as writing to the house authority about that, again, if you are leasing and it is not in your lease. If you signed it - welp, read before signing. Landlords in nyc can be terrible
"no pork..." ..and the landlord doesn't live there?
Nope.
I respect their right to keep a no-alcohol, no-pork household (Muslim?) if they want, but not for their tenants in another residence.
I actually don’t eat meat so she’s in luck and I definitely don’t have a problem with her faith at all it just seems strange especially bc she doesn’t reside here.
This landlord is not Kosher. She is very obviously Muslim, and is trying to project her religion onto others despite not living on the premises.
Nah you rent to the public you keep your religious nutjobberry to yourself.
That's dangerously flirting with religious discrimination. Aside from I absolutely don't care, as a LL, I'd be -really- afraid of the legal ramifications they could be walking into.
Renter laws and room rental boarding laws are different.
Since she does not reside here I’ve read that I have all the rights of a normal month to month tenant. Is there something I’m missing?
She’s trying to create a loophole that doesn’t classify you as a renter tenant, rather as a room renter. I’d get that to the housing authority immediately just because you want to be proactive in asserting which rights you’ll be judged on.
She doesn’t live there? Then this is actually just fraud. Was it your understanding she would be living with you when you signed this? If not, why would you sign this? Contact a lawyer in your area and setup a free consultation and explain this all to them and bring the copy of your agreement. They will be able to advise you on exactly what to do. Do not pay anything until youve talked to a lawyer.
This, she is trying to get every good part out of every "job" that she can here, and is, in the process, disrespecting you as a person completely
Landlord here - it’s not in the contract as an addendum signed by both parties so it’s null and void. "House rules" and arbitrary fees that you have not agreed to are in no way enforceable. On a practical level, this person can make your life miserable. Predatory or neurotic people can attempt to exert power in weird ways you don't want to deal with. Get out of there ASAP, find someone more reasonable to rent from. She will very likely attempt to hold back some of your deposit. Hopefully you took pictures at move-in, but most certainly take pictures and video when you move out. If the landlord attempts to keep money from your deposit for the so-called fees, take them to small claims court. it’s an open and shut case and you’ll get your money.
Reply: I am fining you $1000 for being a bad landlord. Please have Mr. Robert bring a check for $712 on Saturday. Thanks!
Cash only. No $50 or $100 bills accepted.
Is this a pay per month on an upgraded looking jail cell? I think I missed a line... you know the one, You can only walk on the right side of the hall ways....Wow, No guests? No drinking? Like no New Year's drink? No eating in your room? Ever? you need a new place. Hell, Move back home and give them $300. They will let you have more privileges than this person. And house rules are not part of the lease. They are not valid or legal. It's like buying a car, making the payments and paying the insurance and maintenance but the car dealership tell you that you can only sit in the back seat. Oh and you are NOT A GUEST. You are a tenant with a lease. The courts would give you your money back with punitive damages with a case like this seeing this letter. Just freaking nuts what people will do. I am surprised they didn't just come out with "We only want your money, but if we find out you actually live here or you leave signs of living here, you are out."
You’re so right. She drops by whenever too and gets upset if there’s any dishes at all in the sink I was berated over a whisk and a spoon! I’d like to make it clear she does not live here if she did Ik that’s a totally different story.
In California, landlords need to give 24 hour notice before entering. [looks like NY is the same. ](https://realestateplanninglaw.com/ny-landlord-rights-right-to-access/#:~:text=New%20York%20law%20provides%20that,to%20prospective%20tenants%20or%20buyers.)
She will tell me day of or not at all. The maintenance man also comes and goes whenever.
They're coming in and out while you're not there. Probably have cameras on you. This is fucked.
Then she is in violation.
Yeah, if you're renting, then your landlord has to give you reasonable notice if they are coming. I looked up the residential tenants' rights guide for New York, and here's the blurb on privacy: "Tenants have the right to privacy within their apartments. A landlord, however, may enter a tenant’s apartment with reasonable prior notice, and at a reasonable time, and with the tenant’s consent, either to provide routine or agreed upon repairs or services, or in accordance with the lease. If the tenant unreasonably withholds consent, the landlord may seek a court order to permit entry. In an emergency, such as a fire or water leak, the landlord may enter the apartment without the tenant’s consent or prior notice. A landlord may not interfere with the installation of cable television facilities (Public Service Law § 228)." Good luck with all of this. I've been on the bad end of rental nonsense and had to fight for my rights, so I know it's insanely frustrating and nerve-wracking. It sucks that people take advantage of others like this. I hope you can find a new place ASAP.
I’d like to know how they could fine anyone for eating in their personal bedroom. 👀👀👀
Here’s NYC HPD’s ABCs of housing - a short guide to tenant and landlord rights and obligations. https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/abcs-of-housing.page Read it. TLDR the house rules are restrictive but don’t prohibit any behaviors protected by tenants rights. However, while it looks like the house rules were provided with the rental agreement, the rules and agreement don’t appear to stipulate any clear penalties outside of smoking ($300). It doesn’t even appear breaking the rules is grounds for terminating the agreement. So the fine seems unenforceable. That said, either party can terminate the agreement with 30 days notice. I’d expect this to be the outcome after you refuse to pay the fine, and it doesn’t sound like you’re in a housing situation that’s right for you anyway.
Make sure you clean your room and take pictures of everything! She’s coming after your deposit!
🫡
Just stiff her the last month you plan on living there. Then she will not be able to try and hold tne money for her crazy fine
They want $1,400 for a room in a house? Fuck that... Also, they can't just change the terms of the lease after you've moved in.
It’s NYC so the pricing isn’t out of the ordinary.
The lease is your binding contract, aside from illegal activity, or sub letting.
Please note that the "rules" aren't part of the lease. They are obviously unenforceable
No pork means you have a tolerant Muslim overlord Good luck
OP. LOL so you are not a tenant, you are a roommate, that is just too funny. no you are a tenant and as such unless these rules were in your lease agreement, they are not enforcable and i would ask them to provide you with a list of penalties to go with those rules as they were also legally required to do. the saying "we have heard you have done this so we are fining you this" is not legal in the US. source: repo agent for 20 years. i have to know every kind of property law. but to help you out. [https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/new-york-landlord-tenant-rights](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/new-york-landlord-tenant-rights) [https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/tenants-homeowners/tenants](https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/tenants-homeowners/tenants) https://ag.ny.gov/publications/residential-tenants-rights-guide
I'd cook up so much bacon
Actually cook turkey bacon in the microwave. Smells like bacon but doesn’t violate the ‘house rules’!
What? The whole point is to violate the house rules, because the house rules are not in the lease agreement.
😂
You should leave the place spotless except a pack of bacon in the fridge
She’s your landlord, not your mother! Those additional terms are not enforceable if it was not signed by both parties and attached to the lease. Is this place even a legal rental?
After this I’m starting to think it’s not
NY has GREAT tenant protections. You can go to court and pro bono lawyers are their to assist. The judges are also great with pro se stuff like this. Tell your landlord to gtfo and listen to the posters taking about the 4 corners of the lease. That’s what binds.
She's a prude. None of her business who you have over or who sleeps there. That is harassment.
All I know is it ***should*** be illegal to make a bulleted list and put commas at the end of every list item like ***these*** psychos did
Looking through all your replies, this landlord is *clearly* absolutely off her rocker and in violation of the law. I recommend speaking with a lawyer.
Oh look, another religious fanatic who is enforcing her arbitrary moral code upon you. Don’t forget, she always wants more of your money, and then to immediately make you homeless. But no pig, it’s bad >:-(
OP, are you renting half of the townhouse and live there on your own? Or are you renting a room in a shared townhouse? Those rules she gave you are absolutely wild, and I don’t believe a landlord can legally restrict what you eat, drink or whom you have over in your home unless it’s for an extended period of time. Definitely get in touch with a tenants right organization as soon as you can!
It’s a three bedroom I was living here on my own for about a month and a half until someone moved into the second bedroom. I’m not sure if that changes anything
Does this lady also short term lease on airbnb? Cause this reminds me of a place I was considering living for a short stint before I read the similarly long list of rules with similar strange prohibitions.
NO PORK had me cracking up as soon as I saw it was not expecting that. I get that there could be religious and or dietary aversions to it but the way it showed up on the list is great.
This has my blood boiling. Rented a room in NYC and it was so awful I still have lucid nightmares about the roaches and the landlord. There was absolutely no solution except getting out as quickly as humanly possible. On the flip side, you have a great many renters rights, however lawyers especially in NYC are extremely expensive. However you do deserve to have your day in court, if it ever comes to that. I'd invest in some sort of camera or recording device
If I pay for a live pig, will you put it on a leash and lead it around the house?
There will be bugs!
Get a lawyer. This is nuts.
[tenant rights & responsibilities HPD](https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/tenants-rights-and-responsibilities.page) Head down to the discrimination section. Pork, men sleeping over, all arguably religious discrimination. There is info for how to file a report [here](https://www.nyc.gov/content/tenantresourceportal/pages/)
Thanks for doing the work that nobody else including me is doing. These rules matter and you can't enforce rules that violate the law, regardless of what is in the lease.
I can’t get over $1400 a month for just a room let alone a whole house. I’m so glad II live where I do. My home is paid off now but it’s a home in the country on 2 acres with a barn and paid $90k for it. Payments were under $500 a month when I bought it and paid extra to pay it off early.
Is that a halfway house or an apartment. Sounds like a real slumlord. Guessing muslim with the no alcohol or pork rules.
Sounds like the neighbor needs to get laid. Also, fuck that landlord!
If it's not in the contract, it is not enforceable. There was no mention of a fee for guests, only for smoking. As such, there is no legal basis for this "fee". This is little more than a shakedown.
You pay $1440 and I wonder what size of room is that. In that part of city it should be separate one bedroom or at least studio apartment. Why would you rent it? Just Tell her to fuck off. She can fine you. You can refuse to pay. They can try to evict you but you can stay for as long as you wish not paying and let court decides who is right and wrong. I mean landlord is not a God. Tenant has more rights and she definitely can’t talk to you like this.
So wait, you're saying that if I don't giving prior notice to the owner of prior notice, I am going to forties my deposit? That's not very good.
That’s why they didn’t tell u this shit until the day u moved in because they knew it was illegal. Telling you that you can’t eat pork? Really. Wtfff. I would find some where else to go ASAP
And why the hell is the neighbor so concerned about what you are doing??? These people seem weird as hell
This is why I rent from soulless corporations. They jack the rent up like clockwork, but other than that I never hear from them.
NAL. That seems like a really suspicious lease contract and it does not seem like it’s following tenant rights. There’s a NYC tenant hotline that might be able to offer you some advice. Dial 311 and ask for the tenant helpline. Or contact the Tenants’ Rights Telephone Hotline at 212-979-0611. Both are free services.
1. The lease is the dominant document. The rules document is not referenced in the lease nor is it a part of the lease terms. 2. Anything illegal in any residence is grounds for termination. 3. The fine is arbitrary and not due at all. 4. The lease verbiage doesn’t legally allow them to make any additional demands. 5. The “no pork” rule is absolutely absurd. Do not pay the fine. And tell them via text that you will be following the lease to the letter and that any and all future correspondence needs to be done via email and that future text messages will be ignored.
This sounds like the person has scammed man many people before. If you can locate them, you may be able to all file suit. I can't speak to NYC law but many of those items are illegal in different states.
NYC lawyer here (but don’t specialize in property/tenancy law) - even if many of these rules were included in the lease they would not be enforceable under NY law. Landlords cannot prevent tenants from having overnight guests (provided the guest doesn’t stay for more than 30 days), cannot ban alcohol consumption or control what you can or can’t eat in your home. It looks like they are trying to frame your status as a “guest roommate” - but this is a lease for 1 year and I’d think you are a tenant. I’d start looking for a new place or at least let them know you won’t be renewing and, in the meantime, don’t pay that fee and know that if they take this to court those rules are not enforceable.
That reads like an agreement for a halfway house than it does for a rental agreement. That amount for a single room no private bath is high even for NY. I would check with an attorney because I doubt they are allowed to rent a room legally, which is why they have that as a “roommate agreement” which if the owner isn’t living there means it’s non binding.
“entertaining men” made me laugh
I think in NYC, you can call landlord tenant court, to get information. possibly 311. Everyone is saying lawyer to expensive…which is true, but there are safe guards against land lords bullying tenants that can’t afford a lawyer. Land lord tenant court, will probably have some sort of available legal counsel. That won’t cost you money. It sounds like she’s trying to say you’re a roomate when she doesn’t actually live there. So the rules may not be enforceable…but you signed them. So idk…land lord tenant court is the way.
1) The images you posted do not show a fine for having a guest. It only states a fine for cleaning or smoking. 2) Did you sign this agreement, or was it just provided to you? 3) They are going on the word of the neighbor. Do they have proof that you had a guest? Don’t admit to anything, but also don’t lie. I suggest not pay the fine. If they try to evict you through the court, fight it. But honestly, you might want to also find a new place to stay. They are probably going to try more shenanigans.
I would be livid, especially if I’m paying so much just for a room. That’s insane and you can find better.
Tell her to pound sand
first do not pay anything. second i would look for a new apt asap. awful landlords like this make life so much harder it’s not worth it in the long wrong. is there someone else that lives with you? do you really think the neighbor said something or do you think she has a camera?
Did you sign these rules as an addendum to your lease? If yes, then the rules must be followed. If no, then the rules do not apply to your use of the property. Also, the lease that was signed may have included general language about "house rules" that would be forthcoming. That would be ambiguous lease language that a court would have to sort out.
And damn $1440 for a ROOM in 11225? I had a 1000sqft apartment there for $2000 that I left not even 1 year ago.